Today, I want to tell you about a journey that I've been on for most of my life. Ever since I was a kid, I've heard tales of bigfoot and wild men while spending time with my friends and family. As I grew older and read more about the paranormal, my interest in encryptids and other things strange only deepened. That's why I'm so excited to share with you
what I've personally become involved with the Untold Radio Network. The Untold Radio Network is a live streaming podcast network that airs a new show every day across all podcast platforms, YouTube, and more. They have eight different shows on all sorts of exciting topics such as bigfoot, cryptids, UFOs, aliens, and much more. I even have my own show called Weird Encounters, where I talk about all things strange. This is more than just a podcast network.
It's a community that allows me to meet so many amazing people who share their stories and experiences with strange. If you're interested in hearing more of these stories and learning more about the paranormal and encryptids, make sure you check out the Untold Radio Network for all kinds of exciting shows. It's free to subscribe. So what are you waiting for visit www dot untold radionetwork dot com today. Now, what are your reporting? I got a screen going on here.
Something just kid with my dog, something to kill your dog? My dog. We're flying through there over the tree. I don't know how it did it? Okay, damn, I'm really confused. All I saw was my dog coming over the fence and name was dead once you hit the grill. I didn't see any cars. All I saw was my dog coming over the fence. Sat, what are you reporting? We got some wonder or something crawling around out here? Did you see what it was? It was enough
out here. Look, I'm new to the window now and I don't need anything. I don't want to go outside. Hello, hit the buddy out here? What quin? I'm out there? I thought of a bit of about T nine. I don't know. Easy ann out there? Yeah, I'm walking right a heady, get there, and thanks so much for joining me for the show. I decided to go back into the archives and pull out episode fifty seven, which originally aired back in August of twenty twenty one.
I had Paul Eno on the show. Paul was a prolific paranormal investigator looking into all things strange, including Bigfoot. Paul worked closely with Ed and Lorraine Warren back in the seventies on some of their most well known cases. Sadly, Paul passed away on April fifth of this year, so I decided to go back and remaster his original episode and re air it for you guys here today as a true tribute to Paul, his work and his life.
We start off talking about some of his work with Ed and Lorraine Warren back in the seventies, and we end up getting into some of the bigfoot investigations he did in the Pennsylvania Triangle, and he also shares his own personal experience with bigfoot. I hope you enjoyed this remastered version of Paul's original interview. Rest in peace, my friend. All that's left for you to do is sit back, relax, and enjoy the show. Welcome to the show, Paul. Thank you very much. Brian. I'm glad to have you.
I've wanted to talk to you for quite some time. I heard you over on Doug high Check show. I really appreciate you being with us. I know you've been in this paranormal field for five decades now. Some people obviously know who you are, but for those that don't, if you would take us back to what got you interested in the paranormal in the beginning? What got you said on this path that you've been on for five decades. I
guess it's a kind of unusual explanation, and a very unpleasant one. In nineteen sixty one, at the age of seven, I was witnessed to my father's suicide. My parents had a mixed marriage, and my father was serf of garden writing Protestant. My mother was a strict Roman Catholic. They had me in the strict Roman Catholic school. But in those days in the Roman Catholic Church, if you had a hot dog on Friday or committed suicide, you went straight to Hell. That really confused me, Harry. I am
in the second grade. The Sisters of Mercy you can believe the name of you want, but they were either a faint or potential actions murderers in my experience, and I have fortunately one of the Saints as my second grade teacher. I went to her and I said, my father was a good man. I don't know really what happened then, How would I at that age did he go to Hell. Essentially, she said in so many words, God, I think is bigger than all that that got me through at least,
but that it could under the circumstances. All along through the rest of my childhood and into fteen years, I wondered, where is my father? The Catholics still have, although they don't talk a bunch about it, this doctrine of purgatory, so that if you're not quite good enough to go to heaven, not quite bad enough to go to Hell, you've got a purgatory for a certain period to be purged, and then you can go to heaven. Now, starting at the age of fourteen, I entered the seminary to
study for the priesthood. Always in the back of my mind was about my dad. I wondered, is it possible? And we didn't study this stuff, especially not at that level in the seminary, And could all these ghosts and things that we hear about in all cultures throughout history everywhere be stoles and purgatory, earth bound spirit and all that didness? That was a working theory when I went on my first case in nineteen seventy, and that lasted really
for two years because they had to travel somewhat to get there. It was an abandoned village, and I ran into things that didn't even seem to be dead at all, never mind in purgatory. Right off the bat, I started to revise my theories. But what did happen at that point was I wrote an article about this, and Lorraine Warren, of all people, read it, and she thought this purgatory thing was a fabulous idea. So that's how I got to know them, and she invited me down to dinner,
and I worked with them for six years. So that was interesting. But that was the only result of the purgatory theory. None of the old theories made sense as soon as I really got started. That's how I began. Let's talk a little bit about that first case back in nineteen seventy in the abandoned village. What did you find there? In your research? It was called locally the Village of Voices, because there was no village left. It
was all over growing. I had been found that just before the Revolutionary War had died out about in the eighteen nineties when they had little mill, and that they couldn't keep up with the competition from neighboring areas with the textiles and things, although they made spinning wheel so they didn't last. Pat the eighteen ninety there was an article in the Hertford Current. I was in Connecticut and the Hertford Current had an article about display with an old man by the name
of Harry Chase. Was a local historian and he'd been running around that area since the nineteen forties with his old box camera taking pictures and coming up with these really weird things in the photo streaks and weird lights and all the other thing. So I said, this sounds interesting. Why don't I test out this theory? So I conned a couple of my classmates up to seminary into going with me, obviously without the knowledge of the faculty. When they did
find out they weren't too fleefd. This fellow Chase, I wrote to him and he agreed to take us out there, So we went out. By the time we finished our researching that going to the actual site, it was August of seventy one, and we picked them up, brought them out there, and we found a completely overgrown area with some trails and some stellar holes where the houses had been, and a little cemetery on a hill right above
where the houses were. Things started to happen immediately. Now very often, I'm finding with the cases they'd have to get used to the chemical mix of you being there and some things that might not occur right away. But as soon as we walked into the woods here there were no bugs. This is a hot hum in August state. No bugs, no birds. The only sounds that we heard were the sounds of what sounded like daily life for someone else. You could hear dogs, market cows, mooing, people talking,
you could hear farm implement metal things banging together. We set about to be very systematic. We just mapped the whole place and then all this sort of stuff to make sure we knew what was where and where we were going and what we were doing. And we found out that the nearest habitation was a four inch camp up the road about a half mile, and nobody was there,
so there was no reason for all these sounds. By the time the evening came around, we were over by the seller Hooles and we're just doing some observations down by the Nightingale brook below that where their mill had been, and all of a sudden we heard the laughter of children. It didn't sound creepier, and it just sounded like a bunch of kids, but it was moving in a very odd manner, very quickly, up and down this brook.
This was my first introductions to the odd spatial relationships that sometimes take place when you're in touch with what I now call a world boundary or an overwash. My son and I had to invent a whole glossy of terms just to talk about our weird concept on this stuff, because we don't buy any of the old theories. A long time ago, I rejected that. So these children are up and down and we all heard it thick to us. We
attempted to record now now. Our high tech year for the time included the casette tape recorder, a couple of Kodak instamatic cameras which were high TechEd for the time, and a bunch of notepad, flag lights and walkie talking knowledge. These sounds would not record, but I laughed, today, everybody's to the electronic voice phenomenar EVPs. This was a VP in reverse. We heard it, but it wouldn't record. But that was just one of the initial
things that happened that gets weird. This involved several expeditions a little about sixty miles from where I lived in the heart Rod area and near the town in the town of Pomfret, Connecticut, up in the northwest corner. So it involved several trips. One of the other things that occurred on the second trip in October, we invited a man who worked at the United Technologists Corporation in East Hartford. Game. We brought him specifically because he didn't believe any of
it, right down to a fellow, very serious minded. He's the one to whom all the weirdest things happened. For example, by this time we had been there, everybody was well mapped and we knew where everything was. Even at night, we had spotlight them all. So we decided to have up to the cemetery from This was October, so it was pretty dark, and we got to the place where the cemetery should have been and it wasn't
there. All of a sudden, the guy, he was in his mid thirties, he had stopped and he said he couldn't move, and several of us when and we literally told him he could not move forward, he could not move to the left, but he could move voluntarily. The phenomenon where some of his rootage of the spot because of an electrical charge and that sort of thing. Then all of a sudden he began to sob leaned over onto his walking stick, cried, hey again, you had to know this guy.
It was not him. All of a sudden we heard the muttering only about fifteen feet to our left in the director. We were facing where the cemetery should have been. And you know how you can hear people, a group of men talking, which in English, but you really can't understand what's being said. That was what this was. I was afraid the guy was having a heart attack. These are the days before cell phones, and we were on our own. We might have lived in the Gobi desert. I
said, this is not going to work. So we pulled back and he was able to move with us. He said later when we were debriefing, that he felt as if that by something positive that convinced him that we should not go to the cemetery that night. But he felt that he was a
ruin it for everybody else. That was really strange, and our theories today, if I knew then what I think I know now and it can't be sure, is that We may have been the first ghost scene in that cemetery, not because of anybody being dead, but because of time space and quantum
mechanics. The multiversal approach that we take that I found early on was the only thing that really explained any So I think it's possible that the men who were muttering perhaps us or perceived our present sars in some form, because from day one, when that cemetery was established, there were rumors of ghosts there. The local history records that people would not go to that teary at night. It was the late seventeen hundred eighteen hundred because of quote ghost scene reclining
in the branches of a certain elm tree. And what do we get in one of our first pictures there what looks like a ghost orclining on the branch of an elm tree. Well over one hundred years later or almost, these are the first impressions I got when we heard those children laugh. And I didn't dare breathe a word of this because I would have been out the door of the seminary before I actually was. Eventually I was throwing out lot me
a parentormal work, but that took the nineteen seventy seven. When I heard those trips, I knew who some of them were. I was very curious about my Catholic spirituality. I would not even admit it to myself, but I knew in my mind who some of them were. I later found out that I'm rather closely related to the people who lived there, the Randall family.
Eno doesn't sound like it, but it's an old Connecticut Yankee name, And we just crawled out onto the shores of New England with the first lungfish and sat there and marrying all the prominent families sin So that whether that was something that was relevant, I don't know, but it later led Ben my son to work with me, because I was interested in the blood relationships and whether people have the same stimuli. I respond the same way to this thing
stimuli in the kinda paranormal situation. So probably one of the weirdest things that happened was toward the end of the second expedition in November shipt the October Oh, there was actually Halloween weekend that wasn't planned. It just happened. Happened to work out that way, So we're talking November first, nineteen seventy one. It was a beautiful sunny Sunday. We'd all gone to church like dutiful
feminarians, and then we headed out to the Logs village. There was all of a sudden, it's not only an oct cart coming toward a down this cart path. We were between the road to the cemetery and where the cellar holes. We literally got out of the path. They figure out o't maybe somebody drives thieves of horses as a hobby or something in a very rural area. This thing came by us about fifteen to twenty feet away, in an area that was a very thick place but had been a road about one hundred
and fifty years before. We couldn't see it. We could hear the wooden wheels. We could hear the hoof beats of oxen or wars is, whatever they were. We could hear a guy yelling yeah, and the crack of a whip. It was a real day. And then the guy was just doing his work. Now, if I knew then what I think I might know now. I knew who that guy was. I knew his name was Randall. I knew who he was. I couldn't deal with that, so I didn't tell the other people but as I say, if this happened to
me today, I would run to influence this event. Now, I was an early advocate of the residual haunting theory, but I rejected that a long time ago because I've interacted with these things and changed them. And the question arises, what part of the environment would these things be recorded on in order to be replayed as the theory goes centuries later or whatever, because everything's different
in the environment in the world place like that. You have the stone wall, maybe, but you'd have to have unbelievable amounts of iron oxide if you start thinking about a recording, but that the soil is different, the trees are different, and stuff. So I rejected that a long time ago. I think we're dealing with the boundaries of parallel world where it still is seventeen seventy eight, or it still is eighteen hundred, this sort of thing.
So I think that looking back on that, I think, so that's what we were dealing with. But that was a super weird case and it was really quite the dramatic introduction to the field for me. One of the guys later, actually two of the guys later became priests because not everybody stayed as we were so young in the seminary and what they've threw made the heck out,
But it was really quite the landmark experience. It definitely sounds like it, and I want to certainly get into and unpack some of your theories on these things. There's so many things I want to talk to you about it. I want to get to some UFO stuff, I want to talk about some crypted stuff, but I certainly want to unpack some of the ghosts the paranormal experiences that you have. Let's fast forward into your work with the Warrens.
Everybody's familiar with Ed Lorraine Warren from the Conjuring movies. You actually worked with them on some of these cases. I know it gets sensationalized in the movies and people think that everything went down exactly like the movie. That's not always the case, right, You were actually there for some of those cases. If you wouldn't mind, would you take us back to some of those investigations, what actually happened during those investigations. Sure, Colly would never really
get to write. Matter of fact, it's entertainment, not science, So people should bear that in mind. As far as the conjuring case, which was the most famous one by which the Warrens are known. It's interesting today I live about ten leaves from there in Rhode Island. But I think seventy seventy one seventy two, just before Lorraine Warren got in touch with me, I was not involved in that case. Amityville, however, was interesting because
I would have been involved. But I was in the seminary at the other end of New York State in seventy three and seventy four and seventy five, involved in a lot of other hairy stuff like exorcisms and all that with a priest who didn't care about my tender age, liked the war, and had me assisting him at a state hospital there. But Lorraine wrote me letters during that cade. They weren't my only mentors. I had mentors from the church,
even though the faculty wasn't too crazy about what I was doing. Louisa, Ryane Joseph and Louis A being the founders of modern parapsychology in America. She was very interested in children and wasn't too interested in the purgatory theory. But father John Nicola, who had the very anonymous job of assistant director of
the National Shrine of the Imaculate Conception. Now today, if you watch the news from Washington, UNI, there's a background maybe the capital, but up in the corner there in the northwest part of the city, you might see this giant dome and this big spire. That's the National Shrine of the Maculate Concept. He was assistant director that Father Nicola. Now, my brother had been ordained with the priests in nineteen sixty three. He ended up on the
faculty of the seminary right across the street from that big church. So he knew Father Nicola, and he reduced us. He might have had regrets about doing so, but Father Nicola was the technical advisor for the film The Exorcist, which came on in seventy three. I went to Washington a lot. I would always spend time with Father Nicola. Now we didn't work in the existence together around but we correspond a lot, and he would give me advice and say, don't worry about the you know. In any case, he
said that the Amityville case was a hulk all right. Now, the Warrians were not the only ones involved in the amity Ville case. There were lots of investigative press and all kinds of people that it was in a real circus. And I always stress too that I did not work with them on that case. I only worked with them until nineteen seventy eight, which was early on in their careers and the eighties and nineties that really took off. So I knew them early on, and I know several people like John's office.
He was on our show yesterday, an Orthodox priest who would have worked with them before he was a brief. So they worked with the Warrens later on. But it was always interesting Edward handoff cases to me that he didn't have time for or wasn't that interested in, and so that's how I got so saw in my earlier cases. But they even went to that Comfort, Connecticut
site that we talked about initially, they didn't really do much here. I guess they ran into a copperhead Nike and the Lorraine thought the retreat was the better part of Valor. But interestingly, Harry Chase, he didn't like the Warrens eating. I never had any reason to believe that the Lowrens were doing anything they should in the begining. This is early on, probably the most important case I worked with them on was in the Bridge Fort Poltergeist matter of
nineteen seventy four. I know, I think Ed had a very good bedside manner with people. It's not quite as it is in the movie because he's in the dashing, dapper couple like the actor. One of the things I didn't really agree with was that he called the press in among the first things. What would be the purpose of that? And he said people had me to learn about this stuff, you know, I accepted that. Ironically, after I was thrown out of the seminary, I ended up a reporter.
I ended up a journalist because the only other thing I knew how to do was write. In the Bridge Sport case, I was totally unprepared. I came down from the seminary to come home to Connecticut for Thanksgiving, and Lorraine in writing me down for dinner the previous Sunday before Thanksgiving, and you didn't turn down the meal cooked by Lorraine tremendous book. So I drive in there their houses at the end of a cul de sac at the Lorraine lived the
rest of her life there. And Lorraine came leaping out the door. Are you in a high spiritual state right? Now and the fact that I was in a hipic spiritual state because I was trying to decide whether to leave the Roman Catholic Church and join the Eastern Orthodox Church. So now I went down with that, and Lorraine stayed there and waited for Father Bill Charboneau, who was a priest who became so famous in this case that people would write Father
Bill Bridgeport, Connecticut, he get it. He was so well known. From this we went down to the house to the story of the poltergeist cases is well told in the William J. Hall's book The World Most Hearted House. I think you can expect a movie about it before too long. I'm not always in the good graces of the Warren Camp because I criticized them from time to time, and that that's not permitted. I don't know if I'll
even be involved, but we'll just see what happened. But anyway, in Bill Hall's book The World's Most Sounted House, the case is very well be told. I'm really the only deriving major witness to this. The family have
all gone and including Marshi the little girl. Very sad story there that the only other people left are a bunch of retired cops that when they're eating they never retracted their stories, and the police's records are there about the offices going out and seeing furniture lifting up and flying around and this sort of thing. We were there for the better part of three days, we being the Warren's father villain myself. It was very exhausting. Ed got depressed, stirred up.
So there were all kinds of crowds outside the house popped to two or three thousand people according to the media. If you want me to hit the highlight, the scariest things, Brian, are not necessarily the phenomena that can be bad enough, But the scariest things are the things that smash your belief system. I'd been questioning everything since this Pomfert case, which had only been a few years before. On the Monday night of the case, the Warrens
left. I'd been hit rather harshly in the leg by a TV set that had turned over on its own and knocked a little girl and I across the kitchen the previous night. So the Warrens left to do a TV interview and I was in the house pretty much with just the family, which is Laura, Jerry Gooden and their adopted daughter, Marthy. There was a reporter, John Sopgo from the Bridgeport Post, and there was a neighbor that was it Marcy. For some reason, the ten year old kid loved to play Monopoly,
so we were playing Monopoly in the corner. And I'd gotten the impressions from the minute they walked into this place that they were for entity. Now the Warrens, that we didn't quessure that they were demon Okay, I was in the seminary. We would interp for it, and a father bill of court the same way. But something wasn't right. It was like Coomfort case all over again, because it didn't seem like these explanations were good enough for
what I was seeing and feeling. So this really came home again on this Monday evening when I was in there and the kitchen filled with the energy, and you can almost feel. Four entities came down the hallway. You get almost say, again, see these translucent go out of the structures. One of them came and stood right in front of me, And this is where I learned you don't get annoyed, fearful or angry in the face of these things, because they feed on it. Because and here's where I got the
idea that these are parasite. I think you could even trace the old stories of vampires to these because of what did the ancient Snarians call these things? They call them lighte fucking ghosts and then thinks exactly what they do. So this thing got stronger, and I knew it was after the little girl. I put her behind me, and just out of intinct, I pushed again. It pushed back. This thing Brian had a physical body. It had bone structure, even though you could see let right through it. This threw
me for ale because of these things. By definition, the demons are supposed to be spirit. I'm suppoth to have body at least as we have a stand them and stay tuned for more sasquatch out to sea. We'll be right back after these messages. And this thing took advantage that got around me, threw Marcia across the room. At that point, it's not like the police
was going to explode, so I said, we're leaving. Fortunately, the police had walked off the street both and Lindley Street at both ends of the block, and we didn't walk out in the middle of a crowd that would have been just chaos. So we did that, and of course still no cell phones in nineteen seventy seventy four. So I ran next door, called the Warrens that something apparently followed me and knocked on the door after I went
in. Took them an hour to get to ten miles from Monroe, Connecticut to Bridgeport to where they lived because of all the crowds and traffic that this had caused, so they came back. Everything had calmed down by then. We went back into the house the people. The radio was still on and they were speculating why we had left the house. The next day is when everything started to fall apart. I had to go home and take a shower,
and I lived about fifty miles away. The warrants went to their house too, and we were going to meet back at two o'clock at the good home. The little girl hugged me and said that please promise you'll come back. Missus Gooden did the same thing. Please promise you'll come back, and
I said, we've been back about two block presentment by right back. At two o'clock that afternoon, a police officer was standing at the door and Missus Goodon came out looked at me and said, the officer throw him off our property. So so what was going on? And I had heard on the radio that the police had declared the case to be a hope. I was listening with the radio in the car and wait, some of those confused here.
So I went to the warrant's house. They were there. We had a council of war, so to speak, and the police apparently the city was tied up the not they wanted it over and they declared that the kid had did it. As soon as we had left on Tuesday, they went into the house, stat the family down and told them this is how it's going to be, because that'd the very idea that this ten year old kid could throw huge arm chairs and things around with the flick of a finger in
front of trained observers like police officers, firefighters and journalists preposterous. Three of the cops and three of the firefighters that stood there with be watched the refrigerator flow in the kitchen. All their reports were never changed that they had seen things of this kind. I have copies of the reports today. Ed Warren gone them for that essentially had that was the weirdest for work done with them,
because now it's pretty well known. Ed and I were on the radio for two days going back and forth fighting with the cops, call in shows and things that people would call in, so it just didn't make sense. Finally, in January, I was back at the seminary the Goods that were actually on the radio and said that they denied that Marcy had done anything. They agreed with us. So it was really quite the show. And I'm sure it's going to be a movie sooner or later. But I would recommend
Bill Hall's book if anybody's interested. So what was the resolution? Did they continue to have these issues or did you guys just have to walk away and not follow up anymore after that happened? Well, yes, answer the case, the Bridgeport case. At least what Ed heard and told me was that the girl was taken to the Fairfield Hills State Hospital and one of the those famous state hospitals that people investigate today but it's now mercifully closed, and that
the phenomena occurred there. I believe that because I worked in the state hospital with a bree not that one, a different one. The staff and the doctors were witnessed all sorts of things that led to egoism. Now, the folks from what was then the Duke University Parasite Lab came in. I knew some of them, and Keith Ferrari told me later on that the stories they found from witnesses they were able to contact, and people were thinking so many
things in so many different places that none of it made ben. He said. They didn't even write an in the house report on it went down without the too much fanfare, just followed up by contact the dead had in the police and in the community who had heard things and would report them to what later on. But they later sold the house the good and family did and nothing has ever happened since then. As far as we've been able to find out. People are shocked by the size of this place. It's a little
tiny bungalow on the side Street and Bridgeport, Connecticut. It's really only three rooms. There was a big living room, big bird house pat Tide, and then the two bedrooms and the kitchen, and then a basement. One of the artists the aspects of this case too. Brian was alleged to talking Cat. One of the things you might look at today as a precursor to
Boltergeist. Cases. This little girl being held essentially prisoner in this house after having been what today we would call bullied at school and really overprotective parents. Ed had told me to keep an eye on her to make sure she wasn't doing any of these things. So I was with her a lot, and she told me that this cat Samn as our only friend, but that he could talk. I wasn't born yesterday, but I see the weird stuff, but never a talking cat. But then mister Gooden said that the kid was
right. He said that cat went to the vet for an operation, came back and mister Gooden, who was a very as salt of the earth kind of guy, worked in a factory, and he said that the cat would come to the top of the cellar stairs, pound on the door and said and say, quote, let me out, you dirty Frenchman, you dirty rat unquote, So the cat to prejudice against the Frenchman. This is what the guys said. And I have to tell you, Brian, I think
one of the weirdest things I've ever seen. You have to bear in mind, this isn't that far from New York City at the time, yet, ABC, NBCCDA, they all said, Network reporters up to the house. We let him in. I'll never forget the site of major network reporters from these three networks holding a microphone up to the cat and bagging Interstaceum. You
can't make that up, can you? You couldn't. But yeah, I saw plenty of the refrigerator and I stopped flipping around hit by the TV stad And I was there when the famous bird and appeared in Lorraine Warren hand. I was sitting there across the table with Sunday night, twenty fourth of November, and there was a police officer there, there was a reporter, and this whole thing is on paid because Ed was was being interviewed and you can
hear my youthful voice in the background. After Lorraine kind of went ooh, and I said, there's a blister forming, And there was a second they read burn blister forming on her hand and nobody was smoking. There was no heat source. There are rumors I heard that the little girl confessed to do
him. She wasn't even in the row. It was something that was quite genuine, and Ed told her he wanted to r out of that house because he thought spontaneous human combustion could take place in a house like that, and she refused to leave. That was actually quite dramatic, but all legitimate stuff. And I saw it myself and it skeptics they'll say, oh, how could that happen in that little house? I said the argument that I always use, that I was there and you were not, so get older.
It was probably the best observed, best document the Voltergeist case in modern history, if not all of history. So many witnesses, so there it was. We were thrown out of the case pretty much by our family. All we had after that was third hand information from other people or in a physician. We thought to know. You mentioned earlier about exorcisms, and I have to be honest, I'm an agnostic. When it comes to religion. I struggle and I go back and forth, because I certainly believe that these types
of things happen, exorcisms in and of themselves. Everybody's familiar with the Exorcist movie, and that when you say exorcism, that's what comes to mind. If you're an agnostic and you don't necessarily believe in the sense of heaven and hell and the things that religion teaches us that are there, I don't necessarily believe that they are demons, but I do believe that people have had some sort of possession. Are you okay with talking about some of the cases that
you were involved with that led to exorcisms. I didn't think that theology was right either. The state hospital, the Saint Lawrence State Hospital, was in upstate New York, and I think the Bishop of Burlington, Vermont, who was my boss I graduated from the junior college level seminary. I think he didn't like this parent almost I think he wanted to keep me out of mischief, so he sent me to this seminary in the middle of nowhere. We
called it the tundra up on the Saint Lawrence River. But he didn't realize he need to figure on the priest who lived at the seminary but didn't teach. He was the Tampa chapelain at the Saint Lawrence State Hospital, among other things. He was also, unbeknownst to everybody almost everybody else, the exorcist for the Diocese of Ogdensburg, New York. I'd see him in the hallway and he called me in one day to his room during the first semester.
He said dynasty and you worked within Loraene Warren And I said, yes, Father, I do. And a lot of priests didn't like them, but he did. He said, we had a lot of conferences. Eventually he said, would you be interested in assisting me with a couple of strange cases at the hospital. I was in the group that went to the hospital as
part of the pastoral training. Anyway, we would visit with the Catholic patients and this sort of thing, and there are all kinds of people that they weren't all necessarily psychagent pass They were sometimes the indigent area residents who couldn't afford any other hospital, and they were welcomed this one. I did that from day one. And Waurren had talked to me about been involved in this sort
of thing, but I never worked with them on any of those. And he tell me all about and he played the tape for me of the cases and that sort of thing. That was all pretty weird that I was working with Father Lawrence and it's his first name was this seventeen year old girl called Barber, and a lot of these people have been drug ravaged. You know, this was not a good time in the St. Lawrence County, New
York. I mean it was the economy is terrible. A lot of farms are being foreclosed on, really awful, and a lot of the people couldn't handle it and ended up, you know, on drugs or in this hospital or both because of her rage. We had to get her mother's permission, and her mother in worse shape than she was. It was a real, real bad situation where I was involved in se seven exorcisms with them. Several
of them are the same people always involved. There was a doctor, two nurses, me as an attendant, and then another guy from the hospital staff who was an attendant, and then then father in lawn. The case of Barbara was interesting, and because the romansravic ritual is very stylized and very strictly enforced that the bishop has to give permission for every single time it's used.
Because Father Lawrence being the official exressist, that was not a problem once you had exhausted all medical explanations for what's going on now that would involve, for example, the doctors in the hospital staff witnessing stuff flying off shells on the other side of the room. Obviously, you can't believe the guys get so diagnosis or any any kind of psychotic episode for that sort of thing, and that Warren always told me that those are the things that are happening outside the
person that they couldn't be physically responsible for. So that was one thing, and then there would be all sorts of things, and we would have to fast, go to nass, receives communion, go to confession, the whole work in order to even be in this room. And of course there was an old wing of the place that was not well used, and that's where it would be in case that things get really straight. They did in this first case. There are three actual exorcisms within the Roman ritual right of exorcism,
done three times. In each case, the priest is supposed to ask what is the name of the demon? Right, and the girl had told me that she believed this name was hal Father Lawrence said, to see if you can look that up, because the days before the Internet, that wasn't so easy. And all I ever found in any directories or anything was this family. The guy taught her Harvard. He was some sort of medical professor.
No, we never didn't find out where that came from, but she said he was an Asian prince, had been murdered by his own father. And again I came to the conclusion long ago that these were parasites, not demons in any normal sense of the word. They'll be what you want them to be in order to press your button so they can eat. After the Bridgeport case, and of the reason, these are just part of nature.
What does the nature have with nature has lots of mimic whether they be insects or whatever, And there are lots of psychic vampires, include a human one. So that's how these things seem to live. And we came down to about nine different species over the course of the years as we worked there weather we're against these, So that I think was what was going on in the egoism case here. How did it work? I have never seen and it's
not really believed that these things totally take over your personality. I think what happens is that these are multiversal creature, if you will, and that they will discover what another term we had to invent, the identity point. For the background of that, you have to get into a little physics, and we've had eminent physicists on the show, including bred allen Wolf, who say
that we're right about at least the way we interpret how this work. All possible outcomes apparently do exist, all right, so that we may be looking at a career that really is perfect in some ways. A perfect elegance does not necessarily set up for our personal convenience. And whatever conscious does we happen to be expressing doesn't mean that it's not a perfect creation. I think that when these parasites who were attempting to eat, they would find someone extremely vulnerable.
They see the time and time again, and they would discover where they are, or at least have an identity with this person at some point somewhere as someone in the multiverse. That's really tough to get your head around, but I think that's really how it worked, Okay, Bearing in mind Einstein's a special theory of relativity, all time is really simultaneous. There really is
no past, really is no future. It's just a function of our conscious Everything that ever has existed, everything that ever will, everything that ever could exists in concrete reality at some point in the multiverse, and we're spread out over the consciousness. For the viewpoint of consciousness, were spread out over that whole multiverse in many different facets and formed weird stuff crazy, but it seems
to be with the physics. Said, then when you have a possession case, that would you have you have a parasitical entity which has the ability because of the laws of physics. They're different from world to the world, apparently to travel and to seek pray as it were, in these situations, and that they will do whatever they have to do to get together what they need
to eat during the ritual. It seemed like this thing was egging us on, feeding upon the sort of negative command structure that occurs during these rituals. Now, if I'm Lawrence was great, he would calm anything. This weird stuff would happen, and he would take it in stride, calm everybody down. At one point during that first trip there, Barbara floated out of the wheelchair and Leonard the other ten I never found out of the last name.
We weren't allowed to associate outside of this room. We pushed them back down. Eventually during the second session that the nurses had to tie her in with towels and stuff. She didn't so she wouldn't literally float away. People ask me what probably the most frightening me, what ever happened to me in this field was and they had to be during this eggism. Either wanted to be sure. I'll go all right, And I would say, Father, how
come we commanded to give a name? It is a pair of demon I was saying at the time, And how do you know what's to tell you? The correct name? Names give you power over somebody. What do you do, Ryan, when somebody tells you their name, you shake hands? Right, that's an agreement. You're not going to collaborate them or whatever. And that they've expressed trust in you and given them power of you by by
giving them the name. So that's that's the rationale behind this. And I get that, and well that they're bound by the power of Christ and the authority of the Church to tell them the truth. It's like then, all right, I bought that. During the exorcism ritual, he commanded it to tell what's name? And out from this girl comes this voice I had never heard before and surely wasn't heard saying chow in my mind. I said, yeah, this thing somehow must have picked up on that, and out had
come with this language. Now I wasn't allowed to record this, but the doctor had a tape recorder. He had to look it up because he didn't get what the language it was either he couldn't he couldn't make it out. Turned out it was Melee, Why Melee? But they the following May, before the school year, ran them and I headed back to Deticut for vacation. Father Lawrence called me and they said, I cannot let you go home in conscience without telling you what that thing said, because it was to me
directly, he said. They had a terrible time translator because who speaks Melee in Northern New York. It said I was there when your father committed suicide. I told him to do it. Now. Had that been in English, I would have been an apputation. At this point, I don't know what Father Lawrence expected me to do, whether it's going to just quit the whole business right there, or it maybe wanted to say how strong I wor
this kind of thing happened with the relative frequency according to him. I thanked him. I said, I'm glad you told me. I wouldn't want to not know. I just kept a stiff upper Olympics well used to faith and just soldier on. I think he maybe had an eye on me as an exorcist in the future where once I've been ordained to the priest, of which I never was. I believe these things are real. I've seen them myself.
Other cases were not quite as dramatic as that. You have to steal yourself and to learn to take it if you're going to help these people. But I think you also have to have a vision of this that is outside of theology and more part of nature and physics. I'm always being blamed for not embracing other people's religious beliefs once they find not about my theological education. But I said, it's not good enough to explain any of these things.
The theologism good enough. I think the SCIENTI has helped necessarily good and experientially. People have experiencing these things, and it's throughout history and in all cultures, and I don't think they understand it either. But it's all about dead people. I don't believe that it didn't. So the exorcism was just another page in the book. Eventually discovering at the end of the seventies and dose of the multiple world theories and all this sort of stuff that businessests didn't like
either. Einstein thought it was too weird, but he couldn't deny it. There are various interpretations of the multiverse idea, but I think that it certainly explains the paranormal. Also, the other side of the coin is a holographics theory, which also I think is they go hand in hand. I was really firm for loophole out of the stuff, but by the end of the seventies I thought there might be explanations outside of theology. Before we move on,
I want to get into some of the UFO investigations. I want to talk about some of your personal experiences. But before we get there, give us the cliff notes version of this multiverse theory and give us an idea for those in the audience that aren't familiar with that. What are you talking about when you're saying the multiverse theory. Yeah, we're used to the universe, Okay. I can maybe it's very a curve ball here and take it to
a theological perspective. Whether you're studying pretty much in any legion or any seminary, any catechues in Bork or whatever church school, funday school, the general approach to the creation is that God had so much love that it had to be expressed. He couldn't help it those at the explosion, whether they call it the Big Bang or whatever, of love, and it resulted in the creation of the material world we know now, because we also know now that
the material world is really just a form of energy. And then there's energy too, of course, the pure energy of this sort of thing. So however you approach it, it's just one universe. It has one planet Mars, a bunch of galaxies out there, one Andromedolost. Quantum physics went way beyond that. By the end of the nineteenth century the term multiverse was coined, and it eventually means there are many versions of the universe, some of
which are quite different. They took a long time to reach these conclusions into the twentieth century, but by the nineteen fifties that there was a graduate student named Elliott who came up with the MWI. The multiple worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics is quantum mechanics separated from Thetonian physics, and got weirder and weirder. Now you have stream theory, which is trying to unite quantum mechanics with Newtonian
physic dollar stuff. Even that's postulating eleven or twelve different different parallel world. But in our interpretation, we agree with the interpretation just because we've seen in the trenches that you have perpped an infinite number of parallel universe and they keep
being created. One of the examples of physicists who approach it this way we'll use was that if I were to hang up the phone right now, that not only in the interview, it would create a new universe, literally the one in which I did not hang up the phone, which I'll stay in right now, or other orse you'll get mad at me, will continue going. So that the old conundrum of time travel, go back in time and shoot your own grandfather, how could you be born? That that's the total
non issue. It's totally irrelevant the world in which you shoot your grandfather. You had created a new stream and time and space to very ancient indigenous peoples and an Australian Aboriginal would we colbatus when they see it as a tree with almost infinite numbers of branches. You'd create another branch when you shoot your grandfather, But the one in which you were born never stops existing. The whole conundrum is not a problem, right. The same thing with hanging up the
fun and creating in a universe. This is going on in inconceivable numbers, each day, more being created in the fields. This is how I began
to see this happening. Many examples. The ox Cart guy going by in nineteen seventy one, sending us all into all out of fascination and confusion, was, in this interpretation, literally going about his day driving his team of authors in eighteen hundred or or whenever, And had we interacted with him, mister Randall might have had a very strange day all right, even though he might have heard us or something much like those fellows at the cemetery. If
that's what was happening. We heard the muttering, and we may have been the first ghosts, and this sort of thing. All the time, my son Den and I run into quote unquote ghosts who think weird ghosts haunting them, and they're afraid of us. All you have to do is really look outside the box. As the cliche goes, consider other interpretations been dead people. If ghosts were dead, they'd be dead. They wouldn't be doing anything
much more likely. And again the case, if the case, we were into this, we believe that they are the actual people bodies and all going about their daily wives and wherever, whenever they happen to be. Why do we see them as glowing or as shadows or whatever. What do you have between these worlds? Physicists will call it membrane or brain brae, electromagnetically charged boundaries between these parallel worlds they can interact. I mentioned that the spatial oddities
that occurred during cases. In the case of the Children nineteen seventy one, we've heard up and down the brook. I've dealt with entities people for they seemed that in our world up by the ceiling or down in the floor, whereas in their own world they're perfectly linear. That's one of the odd things we see. There are countless cases of this. One of the more interesting
spiritual and human repercussions of this was brought home to me. I was speaking at mount Ida College near Boston many years ago, and I got a kick out of it because half the students were studying the undertakers. I thought I was cute. Did you ever see the movie Glory about the fifty fourth Massachusetts Regiment in the Civil War. It was an African American regimen and they did all this amazing stuff during the war. I was in his dining room giving
their speech. Now he has long gone because he was killed in the war, but his house is now part of college, so that's not the hum of there. I'd been talking about human relationships in the multiverse. And I love to speak at colleges because they put me in a big armchair like Santa Claus or somebody, and then the students will come up and they tell me their story. So I was sitting there after the lecture and two freshmen girls
came up. They'd been fascinated by the human relationships. They said, why is it that we never saw each other before? In our whole lives registrations we saw each other and they'd been tremendous friends ever since. And I said, if this theory is correct, that at some point in the multiverse, you are one another and you have this identity point, a term we had
and yet invented. They knew precisely what I was talking about. They recognized it, and they went scampering off, all happy that they had an explanation or so they thought, for their close relationship. And I've seen this again and again. People often will recognize these things. What I really love to hear. I love to hear if the lectures is you know, I've been afraid of this all my life, but now I understand and said, I
don't have to be afraid of it anymore. So I hope the heck were correct, because you're giving a lot of people a confident there are things you should be afraid of out there. Here's the official definition of the multiverse that we have come up with. That's in my last book, short for multiple Universes. The concept comes from theoretical physics invasions. He says the reality is
made not of one universe or world, but many. The corresponding term is parallel world and I get into hughever, it's MWY theory here, pausiness. They don't always agree how this is organized, but most of them really gent and I that it does exist a critical concept in the many interpretations of all possible worlds. Creatures, objects from outcome exist in concrete your realities somewhere. It's not one. So that's a long answer a short question, Brian.
But that's the multiverses the firm as we should Let's go into the UFO subject. I know that's one of the things that I love about you the most and about your careers. You're not necessarily a specialist in one thing or the other. You've investigated so many different things as far as the paranormal is concerned. Let's talk a little bit about the research that you've done into UFOs.
I'm fascinated by the UFO subject. I know you've had your own personal experiences with the UFOs, but could you share your personal experiences with what you've seen and experienced and maybe pick a case that you could share with us that you've actually investigated. Sure, the UFO thing. I was wresting everything in the
context of a bigger picture. Okay, not just as multiverse thing, but in areas what we call them flat areas where this multiverse principle is magnified, so that you have frequent paranormal phenomena of types that are not generally associated with one another, and one of these of the UFOs. So, by the end of the seventies, I was not only running into ghosts of people who were dead yet people seeing ghosts of buildings villagy, those were just kind of
thing way beyond dead people. I was also running into people who were seeing UFOs. This would be in the context of quote unquote hearted housing, because at some point, I don't remember exactly when it was still what I was order the Warrens, and I brought this up to Ed and he said, yeah, it could be. He called it a bleedover kind of phenomenon.
He's right. What would happen was that if you could get outside of a house where our family was having issues of this sort of thing, or if you could talk to the neighbors, not always advisable or possible, but when you did, you very often find out that they were having issues too. When I was investigating a case in Connecticut, there was someone who said, yeah, I actually we saw a UFO landing right over there in that field
while there was stuff popping in the next house with the culture guys. I began to realize, maybe this whole thing is bigger, not only than dead people, but bigger than maybe our concept of the whole shebang. So that's how I got statted with the UFOs. Then from that Bridgeport house, when I was having that experience I described with those paradites they came across and I cannot think of a better word than alien, but they're supposed to be demons.
They're supposed to be evil, but they came across with an entirely different field to me. Germanly not wold, hungry and hostile, but alien, totally other, totally non human, something outside of our world for sure, or at least in the background, the place you don't want to be.
I began to realize that I think we put labels on things, whether it be phenomenal or entities or whatever, experiences that we can understand behind what we're actually experiencing, and that really limit and keeps us in the box, as it were. So I found that UFOs really stretched the envelope what the paranormal is all about, and what things can be connected and what things cannot be.
Matter of fact, when Bill Hollis was searching his book because we've never met before and he interviewed me as pretty much the only witness from that I said, have you looked at the mutual ufone network reports from that period. I think you're going to find that there was a spike in UFO site. I said, if you can talk to people who lived in the area at the time, see if they had stuff going on in their houses, And sure enough he was able to do that. Guy's an amazing researcher, and
he said, sure enough, that was the case. That's when I started to when I would interview people initially who had what they thought was grandfather Joe stopping around in the attic ten years after his funeral. Have you seen other paranormal events? Have you seen strange light and like in the sky or And almost always there would be a yet, but the context of it was interesting. If you see a strange light ball of light floating through your living room,
aha, it goes. If you're out in your yard, that's a little bit elevated. Aha ufo. So again, these are things that we can understand we but labeled I'm and the mayor may not be accurate. That's what I'd been doing all these years, particularly about twenty oh five when my son Bentioned turned thirteen. He was born to do this. He attended a
lots of my lectures. He'd sell books in the back of the room with his brother, his mom, and I decided that if he wanted to do it and he didn't have nightmares and stuff, he could join me in the war and stay tuned for more sasquatch Outsey. We'll be right back after the East message, he's want to be talking about it, but he had a number of contacts with what he'd believed were UFOs and aliens right from pretty much
the start. So we've really been working on that together. In these flat areas that we always run into UFOs, we always run into cryptid, we always run into the military or something that looks like the military. And the question is, well, why is that. Maybe we'd love to weaponize the paranormal. Maybe we'd love to be able to farm it out to industrial concern because all kinds of crazy money could be made if you harness paranormal principles.
Then we used to be operating between world So all this led up to a really amazing experience from twenty sixteen to twenty nineteen in what we referred to as the Pennsylvania Triangle. This has been a major case for us, and we've been working on the Connecticut case Litchfield Triangle for sixteen years and it keeps getting bigger. A lot of UFOs stopped going and we've gotten over to the Hudson Valley. Now we had a rural area where people were not afraid to talk
about this. We would have neighborhood meetings in the thirty five or forty people would show up, all of whom have seen Bigfoot and seem weird lights in the back. We are stills had Bigfoot experiences. Shane Seerway, one of our very private colleagues who was good at what he does, he had a Bigfoot experience there. On our first trip May of twenty sixteen broad Daylight,
we got pictures of weird lights in the sky. The people in the area would tell us about sheep coming over and dropping this weird shining stuff that would evaporate. Everybody has seen Bigfoot, everybody has seen UFOs, and some of
the people have a ghost phenomenal going out in their home parishitical irretherwise. So this is an area where the first Nations might say that the boundaries of the world with membranes, if you will, are very thin, and there's also on sorts of give and take and activity energy and the inhabitants back and forth.
I think that's the basis of paranormal experience. Fast forward to May twenty nineteen, we were on another praedition that we had folks some of we have heard we had changed here where we had Charles Credo from the Main and the Seacoasaufics of New England, and we had alex and Pennacow, who was the wonderful filmmaker. He's Benvade. He was pretty much in the cryptids and he was there for Bigfoot, but this experience was really dramatic for him too.
We were sitting there with some of the whole man was very dark, and Shane had got the impression we shouldn't fan out. Sure enough, he was right. All of a sudden, he and Alexander saw this really strange light in the sky. It was a crystal clear night, though there were thunderstorms up to the south. From very far away where we were with crystal clear, it seemed more like a cloud with an object that came out of it.
Went around to the other side, and there was like a darker than dark, almost without a beam, but a section below this cloud light structure as it moved out from behind the trees. As it happened, I had my brandy new besth Guarter three hundred infrared binoculars that I had never used before. These things paid for themselves that night. I got this whole thing on video. As this thing comes out. The people can see the video if
they go to the Behind the Paranormal with Paul and Vanino facebook page. The that's the name of our show that they can see that. There are two very interesting videos that people might be really interested and this is one of them. So this experience went on for the better part of three minute. It seemed to change shape at one point turned and then the object, the solid object, went back in. All I could think of when I saw this was like an artist conception of a black hole or a white hole. A
white hole is not as well known. Disposably, the fire comes out of that into one universe or another, and that's cosmology. So it was really quite dramatic, and we really enjoyed. The things that happened to us there to me are sacred and the privilege I feel that we experience these things. So that was there again the UFOs, and of course is what are they? The standard explanation is they're spacecraft from other planets, perfectly reasonable, perfectly
plausible, coming a couple of million light years in the normal Nanda. The way we travel would be difficult, we won't think, of course. But if you use the multiverse, or you use wormholes or things that are possibly than physics that are pretty much accepted. You could move without even moving in this fan, so you could travel one planet or another just just by using intersect points or whatever, and then that could be probably controlled that it might
be. One of the things of the American industry and military is researching, and very often there's some explanations you don't hear about, such that the UFOs, for example, maybe living things very often that they'll act in a very intelligent manner. There's ball wiightening that can appear in your house, and then that can be considered the UFO if you know what it is. But there
are all sorts of possible explanations that could be a time travelers. One of the cases we researched in great depth with the witnesses was the Randolsom Forest case of nineteen eighty. It was quite the experience to be there and to listen to the Hall tape right where it was recorded and the Hall tape or anybody
doesn't know. The deputy commander of the base, as these objects were flying around the landing between two NATO air bases in December of nineteen eighty, Colonel Charles Hall whom we know was there was recording on a small tape record with his experience with it, and he kept thing weird, we you know what, and it was just really something. But we know pretty much all the
major witnesses. We've had them on our show. And when we did more broadcast time on that case than anybody else up to the time we did it, some of the witnesses breathed they were time travel Jim Pennison, for example, it was a non commissioned officer who a security detachment are actually says that he approached an object that landed, put his hand on it. It was
warm to the touch, and there were these trains markings on it. He said under hypnosis that if you give credibility hypnosis, he said they were not alien. They were on. Other people believe they were Soviet at the time or whatever. So there are all sorts of opinions, but there are many possibilities that go way beyond the extradressial craft thing. And I think I've seen
one example. I think what I might have seen and gotten on video was a possible intersect point or a pull as it were, where things were coming and going. Is that happens all the time the big poot that I saw oftime, it was gone, Shame's ran away. But other people have seen cryptis of that kind in that area, that they're there and then they're not. So I think that the multiverse thing figures is just as prominently in the
UFO scene as it does in the crypti or ghost scenarios. If this multiverse thing is correct, we would have experiences of what to us would be the future, just as we would have experiences of the past, the ghost people going about their day who really aren't ghosts. So the question arises, and maybe these UFO sightings, and some of them anyway, are bleed overs or intersect voice with what would be the future that don't job. Anything is possible
if you have time to go into the Bigfoot thing. The fans from Sasquatch Otyssey would kill me if I didn't ask about the Bigfoot encounter. I've always been a flesh and blood camp when it comes to the Bigfoot, the Sasquatch thing, but I certainly leave my mind open. I've had people on my show that have made me really scratch my head and think. I always go to Ockham's raisor and what makes the most sense to me, and sometimes the stories that I hear, the thing that makes the most sense to me is
it's some sort of giant ape, not some inter dimensional being. And I attribute those things to it's just really fast. It was there and then it wasn't. But there are things that don't make sense to me. Trackways, for example. Trackways don't just disappear either. They're hoaxed in my opinion. And these people that find these air quote trackways that have one or two two tracks in them and then they just disappear are probably not real because that doesn't
happen. If you're a tracker. You can find that next track and the next track in the next track. But there's also stories of people saying, hey, it was there and then it wasn't. And it sounds like you had that experience. So what happened during your encounter with a big foot?
Well, September sixteenth, twenty sixteen, brilliant moonlit Friday and night. We were in Pennsylvania and I have a favorite spot where I like to kind of stake out things, and that's a field right above the whole of our hold.
That's the place where we had the UFO experienced three years later, and I parked my truck up the air, and this particular evening, I had my cameras set up in the truck for weird lights in the sky, because that's what we've gotten, and of course realize that that things do not happen as planned when things are tend to be very spontaneous, and they surprised you. It was a cold night, so I had the passenger side window up
and my driver's side window down, and I was watching the sky. All of a sudden, something to the right grabbed my attention and I looked, and I could see the huge, furry brown legs and knees moving up and down, a very tall creature with a ted bowed as if looking for something in the grass on two leg I took a quick shot with the infrared camera through the cool windows of no signature that I was used with, and I
started to get out, and then my phone rang. It was my wife, the closest I ever came to divorce sometime, and I said, who's gonna call me in the middle of a field in the middle of Pennsylvania, the middle of the night. Apparently her, So I told her, I'm in the middle of a bigfoot, I said, what, But anyway, the rings home on my phone was the theme from Lord of the Rings, so that goes blasting out over the field. So whatever this was wasn't there
anymore. I was trying to get out and trying to see it, but it was gone. It was maybe two hundred feet away a mode, and within the next five minutes I saw white up in a tree across the field. They looked like ordinary flashlights. I said, what's going on here? I didn't want to take off across the field because I didn't know if there were any yawning corrosters rand and would swallow my truck. Though. The next morning the Shank Serro was with me. We went out and we found a
path through this tall grass. Something apparently on two legs had made but it started just on the edge of the wood, down like a chain for the woods, but just like appeared there. And then I went up to a point probably where my wife called, and it turned around and apparently disappeared. Now I didn't figure out what the lights were until the night after that, when we had a neighborhood meeting. I described the experience and a hand went
out. A woman named Melissa who lived in the house on the other side of the field, said that she had to come home Winter's son from the store right at this time got out heard something big moving right above their house or in the field, and went up to see what it was. They heard it while I was seeing it is the timings, think or not? And I said, well, are you doing shining light stuff in the tree? And she said sometimes they were in the tree. That appears to be
cooperative evidence, so that I was actually seeing something very strange. But they're not afraid of this stuff that they go up and see. When they hear this stuff, I considered it a very sacred experience. I felt very privileged. But if just before I go into these teams, I will express great respect and that sort of thing or whatever's there. Many of the people,
though, have had negative experiences. For example, there's one little girl who was no more than one hundred yards before I was having my experience, and this is a year or two before this. She encountered in broad daylight. She was on her way over the school in the dirt road a bigfoot, very much of the description that I saw. She was terrified, absolutely terrified. She came to the next two years worth of they were meetings and just
cried and she has never been willing to talk to us. And her parents like her too, but she hasn't. And movie hit some point if she grows up and she'll at least talk to us. These experiences will get out of them what we bring to them. If we come in with negative feelings and fear, that's what we're gonna get. I think we participate very much in these experiences. We don't just sit there like lumpson and happiness to us. Whatever was happening with her, apparently she took it very negatively, and
with me it was very positive. So the question arises as far as splashing one and stuff. This is an area where you've got farms, some open country wood lots of maybe ten acres, a lot of open pastorage and fields of corn. It's not a wilderness area. In order to have a viable breeding population, you need to have five hundred and a halbit where the hay do you hide a creature of this side in an area like that, let alone a large population people in speculated old mines and caves. But I don't
think that's good enough. You find these shelters that someone has built out in the woods, even in the smaller wood lot. There has been a theory that I've heard that these are where they tell each other the intersect points are, and then they can go one world through another and hunt or e to do whatever they do. There seems to be a very natural way of life for some of these multiversal creatures. They are as we see it now.
We've had some people on the show who believe that these are question blood, you know, but again, where do they go? Where do they come from? Me? Just the first nations people will tell you their shape shackures, they come and go. I happen to put a lot of stock in what they say. We're there a lot longer than we were though. And e. Linda Godfrey, for example, a dear friend of ours, who is none in the best of helper in here the greatest expert in canine cryptid
and cryptids in general. She broke the story of the Beast of Bray Road, quite famous in Wisconsin, and she believes there's no other choice but to look at films are the multiversal explanation for these things. So that's how we state it. Anyway. You've obviously been doing this for decades and decades. That's why I asked the question. At the end of the day, I always leave my mind open because I don't think any of us really know what's
going on with most of the stuff. I certainly have my opinions. Every time I talk to somebody like you, I leave those conversations scratching my head, and I go back to the drawing board and I continue to learn, because that's ultimately the goal of my show is really the Sasquatch and the Bigfoot, is to talk to people that have encounters and talk to people that have experience, because I think we learn from each one of those something different.
Like you said, sometimes you go into these encounters and you take away from it what you bring. In a lot of cases, I always want to learn too. Because you could do things for half a century doesn't mean that you're doing it right. I know you've mentioned your show a couple of times. Tell the audience where they can find your books and where they can find
your show is Facebook. The best way to get in contact with you if somebody wants to see what you've got going on, really the best way, Brian, and thank you for asking behind the paranormal Our college A really where they could start because the books are available, saying some store is an Amazon all the ready. There you have it, folks behind the paranormal dot Com. Paul, thank you so much for your time. I can already tell
there's so much that we only scratch the surface. So I don't want to put you on the spot, but I would love to invite you back in the future to deep dive into some of the other things that I have a ton of questions about. Thank you very much, Brian, it's great pleasure. They say you don't gotta go home, but you can't stay. I
don't want to be out this job. Jo every day came in, Bricket back, brocket back for joy, for me, joy, stay right, you come in right away, steps steps, steps, step still not talking about as games and State pays, US State assist, US US pass