Today, I want to tell you about a journey that I've been on for most of my life. Ever since I was a kid, I've heard tales of Bigfoot and wild men while spending time with my friends and family. As I grew older and read more about the paranormal, my interest in encryptids and other things strange only deepened. That's why I'm so excited to share with you
what I've personally become involved with the Untold Radio Network. The Untold Radio Network is a live streaming podcast network that airs a new show every day across all podcast platforms, YouTube, and more. They have eight different shows on all sorts of exciting topics such as bigfoot, cryptids, UFOs, aliens, and much more. I even have my own show called Weird Encounters, where I talk about all things strange. This is more than just a podcast network.
It's a community that allows me to meet so many amazing people who share their stories and experiences with strange. If you're interested in hearing more of these stories and learning more about the paranormal encryptids, make sure you check out the Untold Radio Network for all kinds of exciting shows. It's free to subscribe. So what are you waiting for visit www dot untold radionetwork dot com today Now on what are your reporting? I got a screen going on here. Something just
kid with my dog. Something killed your dog? My dog. We're flying through the here over the tree. I don't know how it did it? Okay, damn, I'm really confused. All I saw was my dog coming over the fence and they would dead and once you hit the ground. I didn't see any cars. All I saw was my dog coming over the fence. What are you reporting? We got some wonder or something crawling around out here? Did you see what it was? It was enough out here.
Look, I'm new to window now and I don't need anything. I don't want to go outside. Hello, hit the boddy out here? What quin announcer's thought of a bit of about set nine? I don't know, easy announce Yeah, I'm walking right head. Oh be there, and thanks so much for joining me for the show. As I was getting ready to put out an episode for this midweek bonus, I noticed that I am twenty two
episodes away from our five hundredth episode of Sasquatch Odyssey. So I got a little nostalgic and I started going through some of the earlier episodes of the show, and I found a couple that I was really impressed with early on, so I chose episode seventeen, Bigfoot Encounter near Ape Canyon that originally aired back on April sixteenth of twenty twenty one. It was a great conversation that I had with Brad from Washington State, who had had an eyewitness experience with one
of these creatures while driving through the Gifford Pinchot National Forest. The original episode was a little over an hour long, so I've whittled it down to closer to forty minutes here. I've taken out all the unnecessary stuff, and I've remastered the idio because he was calling in on the cell phone at the time. As you know, that's not the best audio for podcasting, so I've cleaned it up. I've remastered the audio and whittled it down to just the
necessities. Here. Whether you listen to this original episode back in April of twenty twenty one, or this may be the first time that you're hearing his story, either way, I think you're really going to enjoy it. So here you have the remastered version of episode seventeen Bigfoot encounter near Abe Canyon. All this left for you to do is sit back, relax, and enjoy the show. Welcome to the show, brt. Hey thanks, Brian,
appreciate it absolutely. I know you've had at least one signing and some other encounters out there in Washington State. How long do we go to these encounters happen? The big one happened just last year in October, and I guess the other couple of what may have been encounters have happened over the years, over the last probably five or ten years, a couple different times. I think before I start, I just want to thank you for hosting the show.
Thank all the previous guests. This has been quite an experience. Hearing other people that have had similar experiences and even more interactive experiences really just helps with the whole process. Is just some really interesting data. I've lived in Oregon for about sixteen or eighteen years, have gone up and down to the Pacific Northwest. There have been a couple of times, like one time hiking on the east side of Mount Saint Helen's with it friend. As we were
hiking, I just had that sense of being watched. At one point. I think it presipted for a while and I said something too them, and we went off trail for a little bit. But of the Pacific Northwest you can't get very far off trail before it get impenetrable. We did tongue out and our hike, and I didn't really think too much of it. I've always been of the mind that they're probably out there busily in the Pacific Northwest, good habitat forum it's hard to get through the forest and stuff like that,
so I've had an open mind about it. Another time, when I was in Central Or again, I was going for a hike by myself, and it was a similar thing. It was even a more cherial experience of feeling like I was definitely being watched and followed, said some prayers and some good things about the forest people, and kept on my hike. But I definitely felt the sense that I was being watched by something intelligent. Those feelings
come and go and you're not sure what to make of them. Tend to look at things from a lot of different points of view and somewhere glee though it's easy to throw the top as just being feelings and experiences. But there was the last ball my partner and I were driving up to see some friends
in Washington State. We decided to go through the Gifford Pincher Forests. If you're not familiar with the Pacific Northwest, deep in the forest of the Cascades, an area with Mountaineer to the north, Mount Hood to the south, Mount Saint Helens to the west, and Mount Adams to the east. In between for No Peak Volcanoes is a thick area of pretty much national forest. Like I said, it's very impenetrable. The roads are natural forest roads that
are only open during the summertime. The clothes in the winter due to all the down trees and everything. So we were driving north along a longer ridge. She could see Mount Saint Helens to the west. It was a beautiful ball day. It was absolutely stunny. There was no mist or fog or anything like they usually is. In the passenger feet I was just looking out the window and everything, and I was looking at the valley the scenery.
It opened up a little bit. We were going alongside of a mountain, so I was looking down into my right down the hill and the trees opened up. I saw standing basically in the middle of a sun but Paul humanoid, kind of fast squatch looking being. As we were driving by, I got to look at it for a few seconds. It was seared into my brain. At first, I was like, I don't see what I thought I saw. Did I just imagine that? Because I'm interested in bigfoot? And I was like, hey, honey, I think I just saw a
bigfoot? She said, should we turn around? My immediate thought was a couple of things. First of all, it was super old. It was an elder, It had gray hair. I'll get into the description in a second, but it was so old, and it was pretty well kept in great physical condition. It just seemed to me like the thing isn't alone. I just the sense that it wasn't out there by itself. It was with a group. The nature of the mountain, you can't just go running down
the mountain chasing after the thing dispatching October. When all of the groundcovers so high, it's just impossible to see what you're walking on to. We were running late that day, so we just kept driving. Had the stunse I think it's best to leave him alone because in a moment, your mind goes from it being a hypothetical question that you thought about too. Oh my god, they're here, they're right there, they're living, and that thing could tear that out out of me. So to talk about what I though,
it was very human looking. I got a great look at it full front. I could see the top of its head, his bathe, his shoulders, his arms, his hip, all the way down to basically his knees and shins. I was really focused in on the face. The head, all of his hair was kind of a blondish brown with gray, like he was turning gray, but you could tell underneath it with a light brown blonde. It wasn't like the dark red or dark brown that other people have described.
The head was very human like in its dimensions. He had long, shaggy hair that was thinning that was graying. Also, he had hair around the tops of his cheek. His cheeks and eyes looked very Thimian, very timper ape look to him. The pupils were really like ainy black and deep that the eyebrows weren't as protruded as like a gorilla, and the head wasn't as extended like a gorilla. It was more like a kind of a human head, and the nose was very human like it wasn't flat, or it
wasn't big nostril that was angular European or Caucadians looking. He had a beard that came down to its sternum, facial hair all around him, hair all over the arms and leg I could see the muscles underneath him. I could see his golder muscles, his hectoral muscles with bull which is whining. It was a heat was obviously bite Up's arms and elbows. The dimensions of arms were long. He must have been at least nine or ten feet tall,
really good physical shape, like his hair wasn't knotted. It seemed like it was clean. Just standing right there on the sun. Did you get the impression this thing was doing something or do you think he was just standing there and enjoying the sunlight. I don't know. I didn't really see him move, and I moved past him, and then he moved out of my views. But it looked like I looked right into his eyes. I don't know if he could see my eyes, but it looked like he was maybe just
standing up and enjoying the sun. Because it was but the right time of day when the sun was just enough over the mountain to be shining perfectly there, and he was probably just like you said, unbathing. How far away were you from this thing when you guys passed by, probably twenty to thirty yards. It was a really good full frontal view. Like I said, I could see the details of his arms and his face were the lines in
the musculature were really dark. There was a lot of contrast between the muscles, and I don't know if it was because he had grayer skin and those folds were darker, but there was just a lot of definition in his faith in his entire upper Torso I thought, Man, this guy old, he's in good shape. It seemed to me like something that old would have been in a little worse shape if it weren't part of some kind of a community.
I forgot to mention before we got there. While we started into the fourth earlier on in our drive, we pulled off to the edge, So I'll go into some of maybe the backstory. Now. We were driving out to see friends, and the reason we went through the different pincho for us was to actually look for Bigfoot. My partner had been up to see her friends a few weeks before, and they'd seen the premiere of a movie called
The Dark Divide. It's about who studied the butterflies, and you know the solo track through the different Pincho forest and there at the moment where he gets involved with Bigfoot. So, Bob, have you ever been camping before? Yes, of course I've been camping before. Bob's publisher can't wait to read the first draft of his next book. We've been talking about this for years. Now. Let's dial back on you being so miserable. I apologize, but my wife is alive. I'm alile. Go look for specimens. Get
away from me for one. I love you, I love you more? Am I here? You are here? I thought it went this way all right, I need to go this way. Bear with me one second. Please, Hey the butterfly guy, well, butterfly and MOUs this is Norris, No, this is north So where's the trails? I've lost? Hey? How long you've been on the trail? I don't know. I guess a blust trick. James Will advised to be hiking so long with a radio or rifle? What have you run into a bear? Why can't you see
as if see she thought you were a bigfoot? Don't look like a content bigfoot? To you. I've been telling my parents about it when I call them back home, and I think I bought my mom the book from the scientists because they're straight scientific people, and I thought maybe if it's coming from a scientist, they'll open their mind to this possibility. My girlfriend sees the movie and she's, oh, we got to go drive through that area and look for Bigfoot, and I'm like, okay, So that was our plan
that day. We started off in the morning. It was super misty, you couldn't see anything. We drove nor got part way there and my car light went on and we had to sit on the road for two and a half hours and come back to the city and change cars. And my girl started driving. So by the time we got there, it actually had cleared
up and it was a perfectly beautiful day. And as we got into the forest, we stopped and she did one of the whoops that she heard in the movie, which was just like one of the whoops that if you've seen the Bigfoot Legend Meet Science DVD, they'd analyze a whoop, and it was
that same whooping sound. The first time she did it, she got a response and we both looked at each other and then she did it again and there was nothing, And we drove for probably at least another twenty or thirty minutes or so before I had my sighting, So it was definitely not in the same area, but it was in that same general location that we actually had. That to what you described to me, seemed like you got impression that this thing was way more human than ape. Is that an accurate statement?
Absolutely, way more human than ape like. It did not have the big gorilla chest or big gorilla back. It had a very human like proportions with wide shoulders but straight shoulders, a normal, more human or chimpanzee like. The muscles seemed more than the big gorilla type, so to put it against the Patterson Gimwin, then it looked completely different, which threw me.
That was part of the reason I actually believe what I saw was because I'm like, I've never seen a picture or heard a description like the until I've listened to your podcasts, and I've heard it a number of times, depending on where you are in the country or even what continent your own. It seems that there are different types these things. I've heard it on other shows before that people are speculating there's a Type one, and a Type two and
a Type three. For the most part, I think that's crap because nobody really knows. You're just speculating at this point based on anecdotal eyewitness accounts, which I believe is some of the best evidence that we have that these things actually exist. There are plenty of people who describe very similar to what you talk about in your description of your encounter, then you have completely opposite. When I talk to somebody from Louisiana, for example, they tend to be
very different. It's very interesting to me to take different accounts like that from the Pacific Northwest, where they tend to be much larger, sometimes more human, than down in the South, where they tend to be sometimes more aggressive and smaller. Like you said, for yourself, seeing that it was almost like, Okay, that wasn't a guy in a suit, because a guy in a suit wouldn't look like that. I took a day off and I drove the same route and instead of being a paseng river just driver, but
I wanted to find that same general area. I brought a little offering because I felt like, whether they're physical or they have some woo woo aspect to them. Either way, the experience is what I would call a new menus experience, which is basically that I mean having a strong religious or spiritual quality or indicating or suggesting the presence of the Divinity, even as a physical being.
To see something that is not supposed to be there has the effect on you, and all of a sudden you go from it being a hypothesis and this idea to something that in some way that our shit. And I'm an experiencer, there's no getting rid of that. I can't say I didn't see it. So that was our plan. The next weekend, I called my
parents and I'm just talking to him. My mother had got in the book and I told him we were going fat squat hunting, and I didn't actually think I was going to see one, and so she said, did you see a theft? I was, but she asked me a direct question, but I was like, yeah, I did, And I explained what had happened. When I went back to give that gift. I got to the general area and I went walking, and I had heavy hiking boots and a walking stick. It took me like fifteen minutes or so just to get ten
yards the hill to find a stump to leave it on. Because you're in deep mountains with a lot of down trees, big boulders, all of this under stuff and covering that is big leaf ground cover. Because it's with October, the ground cover came up to my weight. Every step I took, I didn't know whether I was stepping between three logs or a route. Everything
was a potential mechanical injury. So there's no way that people are going to be out there trouncing around in suits or doing anything like that because there's no way to follow about. They must be geared toward. At least in the Pacific Northwest, there are some areas that are just so impenetrable because of the topology and the thickness of the blamble underneath that those kind of creatures can disappear. Anything can disappear in about five yards away because there's something huge that they
can hide behind. It's always interesting to me when people say, what could have been a guy in a gilly suit or somebody hoaxing you. Most of these encounters that I hear, it would be highly improbable, if not impossible, for somebody to do that, like you said, because of the terrain that you'd have to cover. It just doesn't add up to me. It
doesn't make sense that these are hoaxes. So that kind of brings us there are a tree hypothesies, right, This is what mainstream science, which includes most of the people I work with, my family, most of the people that we know, they all think that it doesn't exist, in that everybody is either a hoaxer or delusional or whatever. And I'll be honest, I was like, Okay, is it possible that I made it up in my mind? I went through and I'm like, no, I've never seen that
image anywhere. Is it possible that I had like a four to five second break from reality while I was hanging out in a car driving along the country. No, I don't think though. Is it possible I thought something that actually was absolutely not there. I've never plammed on my brakes to avoid hitting
a deer that wasn't there, you know. So I go through all of those even on myself, and I'm like, all of those things are ridiculous, And not only are they theoretically ridiculous, now they are personally ridiculous. Because it happened to me. I know that none of those things happened.
I know it wasn't a bear. You could give me the best scientists and they can try to interpret what I tell them I thought, but there's no way that they could convince me that I did not see what I thought, which leads to, like you said, the next thought that I had was Okay, so now I know that they're actually here, so the per hypothesis has gone. They're physical. Then I think how old is an elder? Because what I saw was an older guy, So I'm thinking, okay,
how old is an elder? But pre industrial Revolution, the average age of a human is like forty two, so it's forty or fifty an elder. And how often do you have to reproduce? How many generations of these things have been going on, if they've been evolving alongside of humanity, and how how many different subspecies or them? Had me thinking, I'm like, would this humanoid type thing mate with the kind of fact quots that were seen in
the Patterson thumb? Or would they consider them separate societies because they've got their own thing? And how do they find me? So there are all these questions that come up as far as living solitary existence, But still maintaining a population. There's so many questions. It seems like you've started down the rabbit hole. So be careful lyricical for quite some time. And it's interesting to have it be a theoretical experience and then all of a sudden when it becomes
like a oh my god, I've experienced it. I can't deny that a lot of the first level questions follow off the table and then you start going deeper and deeper into what does that really mean? Because I've always been interested in My grandparents had a bunch of arrowhead collections, and we're always interested in the foot of Native americaan the pre Columbian history of the America. I've traveled to South America and been to like Machu Pichu and a lot of different ancient
site. So I've always been interested in the history of this continent before Europeans got here. And I just think that the history of this continent and the history of this world is so much more interesting and crazy than we could possibly imagine. How has your encounter since it was very recent, has it affected
your life? Has it changed your life? Has it been a profound part of your life, or is it just something you're like, hey, okay, I'll process that, and I've moved on something that I keep going back to. It's a wild thing. Like even having been interested in the subject for a long time, the interest in other people that have had similar and more interactive experience is like the guests you've had just is awesome. That has
been really cool, and I've really appreciated this podcast for that reason. But it is something like I said, it's a spiritual type of experience in that it does make you change the way you think about life. It's an ontological research, you have to think about it. For me, it makes me think more about the nature of being, and it's something I like to do anyway. But when it becomes more of a reality, it's, oh my
god. There is an entire human species that is so much more close to us and then has some human and it really blurs the line between human and animal and where we stand evolutionarily. Like right now, I just saw something on the news where they're usink a monkey. It attests neurolinks so that the monkey can play a video game without using its hands or any kind of digits
or anything. I think that brings up a lot of questions like, epically, if there are all of these things that are part of a continuum that is us, where do you draw the line on what did epic hole? Are they to us? How far away are they? Having that missing link kind of bridges that gap and make that question more challenging. It's one of those questions that I talked to guests constantly about. If you listened to the Bonus Show last night, I had an interview with Flint and he brought up
the Nephelm thing. He believes that these things are probably nephilm or it has something to do with the nepheline. I just don't know. It's weird because I'm in the flesh and blood camp. I think these things are flesh and blood relic common in But as I say all the time I talk to people that have other worldly experiences, it's interesting we hear these things on our property here in North Carolina. We've got forty acres here in the foothills of North
Carolina. We have a tiny house and we can sit out during the wintertime. For example, we have a hot tub brought off the deck. We set out, have a glass of wine, listening to the sounds or in the hot tub. We hear these things vocalizing, not not every day. I think this winter five six times we hear these vocalizations, and they're always
really far off in the distance. There's probably one hundred and fifty acres behind our property and another two hundred plus acres on either side that's just nothing but woods. We hear these sort of Ohio howlish sounds that we would hear, not exactly the same, but very similar. It's not a wolf, it's not coyotes. We have coyotes on the property all the time. We hear them. We know what coyotes sound like. We know what mountain lions sound
like. The mountain lions here they say they're not, but we believe that we've probably seen signs of mountain lions on our property, so we hear these vocalizations. I was talking to Jonathan otom from Alabama Bigfoot and Paranormal on YouTube. You guys should check out his shows. I was talking to Jonathan and I was telling them about the experiences we've had on the property, and he's, yeah, if you're hearing them, you may see them, and it's
going to happen on their schedule, not yours. I just laughed and say, yeah, I know you're right. If you hear something, you can eventually see it. Literally two days after talking to Jonathan, we had the windows open. It was a really nice night. We're up in the loft. I was doing a little work for the show before bed. Twenty five yards away from our house, maybe thirty yards. This huge vocalization comes out of the woods super close. It scared the shit out of me, and
I'm like, what the hell was that? Now? Is that a coincidence? Probably? So under you're oh man, I'm telling you. Is it a coincidence? Probably? But then it starts me down this rabbit hole because I've interviewed people and talked with people that they think these things can project mind speak, they can read your mind, they can feel your thoughts, you can welcome them in by projecting, hey, I want to see you. Those kind of things. I don't believe in any of that. Personally.
I'm not saying those people's experiences aren't valid. I just don't believe it. For me, iperienced it stay tuned for more sasquatch otasy well be right back
after these messages. Let me throw a little woo into that because I like to throw stuff up against the wall and say, I'm back and forth that those are the second and third hypotheses right, that their land creatures, they've never been anywhere else, they evolved separately from a And then the other theory is there hypothesis is that there's some kind of multi dimensional being that can go in and out of this dimension, or at least cloak themselves, or they're
somehow connected, like you said, with telepathy and things like that. I've been interested in the phenomenon for a long time, and probably six or eight months before the experience I put out there. I'm not religious, so I don't really pray, but I was just like, great, and I want to have an experience, and I want to have one that's a good experience. When I put that out there, my girlfriend saw the movie. She
was like, let's go looking for Bigfoot. I said, sure, all of these weird things like I was going to be driving, in which case I never would have seen it. But the car broke down and it took just a long enough time that the myst went away. The other thing is when we got into that area, I had heard from other people that if you cross your arms over your chest, and maybe bow a little bit.
It's just fine of non aggression amongst gorillas and other being. So while we were out there, I was doing that too, because I was just like, what the hell, why not right? But what happened? And then I'd get the view most of the way, a lot of the way you can't even see by pete past the edge of the road, let alone open up down into this beautiful, perfectly sunny spot. So I don't know if that means anything or not, but for me and that experience, it felt
like it was partially do that intention. I felt compelled to give a gift. The next week I went back. I left an offering. That weekend. Actually I had a sweat lod for veterans. We were doing a sweat lodge. We had a really intense sweat lodge. And after that, we had one of the guys that was part of the ceremony if he was doing a documentary. So we started talking that night and I was telling him all
about the experience and everything. That next morning, I was at home and I had what I felt was one of those sort of telepathic download experiences. My heart open, I started weeping. I felt this energy come in and it felt something was saying welcoming me to the family and everything. I would say what people would describe as that sort of telepathic connection. So I don't know if it was actually Bigfoot. I don't think so. It didn't feel
like it actually came from within. As a technologist, if you think about our wireless technology, we have videos found TV shows and movies flying over our head right now. It's all invisible. All it takes is a device that has a serve new chip that will understand that particular frequency, and all of
a sudden, it can become something that we can see and understand. So I think there's the idea when you're having experiences that are spiritual or mystical, you can tap into a certain frequency and then you're either connecting with a sort of energy or an intelligence or something. But I think that is part of the interesting conversation. Whether they're all physical or there's that multi dimensionality to them, it opens that conversation, which I think is fascinating. You clearly listen
to the show. I don't close the doors on anything on the show. I've had experiences in my life with other things outside of Bigfoot that I can't explain. I've seen the UFO, I've had experiences living in haunted places as a child. I've said it before, it's very difficult for me to check those boxes when it comes to something that seems very physical. You were right in the area. I don't know if you're familiar with the Ape Canyon incident.
I've got Mark Marcel coming on tomorrow for an interview and we're going to talk Ape Canyon stuff. When out of hiking near Mount shant Helens, it was in that area we went to the lava tubes and it was in southeastern part of Mount shan Helen, so that will be very fascinating. That was a very physical attack. Those miners were attacked in that cabin by five or
six physical beings. I look at accounts like that, and I talk to people who've had very physical encounters with these things, and most of them are pleasant. It's difficult for me to make the leap of Okay, this is something that can cloak, this is something that can move between dimensions, and this is something that can mind speak. It makes it difficult for me to make that leap. If you're talking about little green men or little gray men
flying around in ships. What I saw was not of this world. When I was sixteen, I saw a ship with my mom that was not of this world, and I know that now. I don't know where it came from. I don't know if it was something that came from another plan, And I know some theories about UFOs have evolved over the years. A lot
of people think they're more interdimensional. They coexist on a different dimension, which makes a little more sense to me than flying billions and billions of light years away, just to what pick a cow up and cut its tongue out and drop it and leave. One thing I really appreciate about all of Your Death is that they really bring to run the physical aspect, because so much of the sab Flatch phenomena is filled with the people that are into the multi dimensional
thing. They think they know that's the thing. You can have an experience, and the experience is so visceral and real that you think that your conclusions are as real as the experience. I think that a lot of people don't have enough criticism to really question even their own experience. But I agree that there's a huge physical sense to this that they're living here. It feels like they're living in families, they're reproducing, they're finding made their multi generation.
What I wonder is if that can also live in conjunction with having some kind of multidimensionality to them, or even if it's not multidimensional. It's like they've developed differently. We're gadget oriented, we're clever apes that use tools very well, and we're mechanistic and we build mechanistic tools to live our life. And we have a mechanistic viewpoint, which is, you know, basically that the body and consciousness is just a bunch of chemicals and cells that are working in
a certain way, and mechanistically they create this consciousness. They may have evolved differently because they had to hide from humans and had to find a way to communicate amongst themselves. Maybe they found other ways of communication that are more telepathic and that are more like our wireless phones without the gadget. They've found a way to in some ways crack back code through necessity. It's like birds speak at a different pitch, or maybe it's just a different pitch that we don't
hear. Their hearing could be more like dogs, their site could be more like cats. They could have ranges of frequency that they can understand that we can't really interpret. So I think both cases could be true with them being a physical being. That's a pretty good theory. I don't close my mind to it. Steve Coles, he's been on just about every show there is that's ever had anything to do with Bigfoot over the last twenty years. I
interviewed Steve last night. We got into the WU part of the conversation, and he's very nuts and bolts. He's a private investigator by trade. I was a police officer for sixteen years, so we're very nuts and bolts, evidence based type people. I'd ask him about infrasound and some of the more WU things the mind speak. His theory is this, he thinks that they're physical beings. They may have some sort of infrasound abilities. There's other animals
that have infrasound abilities. That's done Prairie. Steve's answer to most of that WU stuff about what people feel or what they hear or experience during some of their encounters may be attributable to infrasound. Again, Yeah, it's his theory. At the end of the day, it's all a theory because nobody has one. Many people say the government knows about them. I think on some
level they probably do. But I'm just not drinking that kool aid that they've got these things or it's a government experiment, or I don't really buy that. I think they probably know about them. There's a lot of reasons that they don't allow that information to get out there, because there's a lot of money involved, obviously in the National Parks and timber up here the same thing.
I would go so far as to say they're not even theories, they're just at this point hypopthesies, because we don't even have enough information to really ta hypopopies. And I appreciate the fact that you guys are more nuts and bullets about it. But the thing with the multian dimensional thing is then you have to discount many of the credible fightings. And that's what's interesting, is
that the science discount everythity. If you believe that they're just physical, then in some ways it's like you gotta believe some of them and then discount some of them. That's the challenge I have. But I tend to agree that they have been here for a long time, that they have evolved, probably alongside of us, and that for some reason they found that it was much vapor for their survival to not interact with the human species, probably because we're
really good with weapons, firearms, traps and things like that. I think that as the human population grows and we encroach more and more into their habitat, the sightings are becoming more frequent. The ability to speak about them, have other people hear them, is becoming easier. Let me ask you this, why do you think it's not a proven species by now? Why do you think we haven't gotten the evidence. We haven't seen the body, We
haven't seen the irrefutable proof that these things exist. That's the challenge with the multi dimensional. That's like an easy catch all, Oh, they're multi dimensional and they just disappear and you never see them. But an easy answer, which could be true. But I think that it's likely that, first of
all, our fossil record is very incomplete. Our kind of modern idea of anthropology in the history of our existence is largely based on anthropology that was done in the late Eacheen hundreds by British people that had a kind of cultural bia. If you look at the Native American culture, just about all of them talk about these kind of creatures. You know they've been here. I do
think that there is evidence. That's how I got to give doctor Meldrum a lot of credit for number one being one of the sole people to take this really seriously in a profession where it's very difficult to do that. If you look at the footprints, and you look at witness testimony, like you said in many other cases, if it were an investigation of a traffic accident or a murder, and I said, this was the guy who did it.
And you put a lineup, and you put in a bear and a human and a normal fat squatch and the one I saw, and another one that's similar to the one I saw, and I picked out my one, and I said, this was absolutely it. I'm a member of the community. My witness testimony, like your witness testimony, would be considered valid. I think it's partially that there's just a cultural response within the scientific community. You're not going to be taking seriously. If you're taking this subject seriously, it's
unfortunate. I think that leads to some kind of cognitive dissonance. I actually called my mom today because I knew I was going to be on the show. And I said, I want to go back to last October, and what did you guys think of me telling you about my fighting Because my mom was a mayor and my dad's with a doctor, straight laced and went to one of the top medical schools, complete behind to and they said, we believed you that you saw what you saw. My mom said, I read
the books and then we dropped it. We haven't really thought about it, talked about it. So I think that that's one of the reactions. You don't want to see what you don't want to see. It's a rare person
who wants to hear what he doesn't want to hear. If your whole scientific bathists and our hold udeo Christian outlook is based on humans being the center of the universe and being above the animals, and that God gave humans the domination over plants and animals or whatever, then it throws a stand in all of those works, because, like I said, it's these creatures that are in
between us that really blur that line between us and them. We have no problem putting a monkey putting up a computer to its brain and seeing what it does. But if we did that kind of testing on a human we think it abhorrent. Why is that It's because of our outlook. I think that same outlook make by and hesitant to undo many of the foundation I think what
happens is they're the ones that are now behind the times. Most people are like, if you won't address these things, then more and more people have these experiences. It's damaging to the reputation of science in general. I've got a lot of respect for Jeff Meldrum. He's very straightforward. He's very scientific in his approach, and that pisses people off for some reason. They want him to talk about all this speculation on what these things are, and it's
just not going to happen. He's a sign. He has a PhD in one thing, and he's sticking to that lane, and that's what gives him the credibility to say the things he's doing in the face of an entire community that would love to ridicule him. That's just not what scientists are for. My brother is a scientist. He's not going to speculate on bigfoot or on UFOs because it's not going to get him grant money. It's just not what
scientists do. They don't speculate on things that are beyond their expertise. That's how mood allward and knowledge moves forward, because people talk about what their expertise is and not about the stuff that they don't know about. And it's sad that just talking about this subject can have that effect on it. Clearly a scientist is a little bit different. But like David Polytt is right. He's got the Missing for on One books, He's got a couple of documentaries.
They're great, by the way, I've watched both of them. There phenomenal shows, and there's always that hint of during the Missing for One one the Hunted, he actually goes out to the Sierra camp. There's a section where he's sitting out there with Ron Morehead and a couple of other guys. It's not necessarily implied that Sasquatch is involved in some of the disappearances in the state park, but as a viewer I certainly felt that way. I've invited David
on the show. He didn't want to come on the show and talk about Bigfoot, and I said, okay, no problem. He recently did a show with Cliff and Bobo on their show Bigfoot and Beyond. They didn't talk Bigfoot at all. They had a very similar interview to what I had envisioned and having is focusing on the missing people. It's about their stories. It's about the missing for one one. It's about the weird coincidences around these disappearances.
Clearly, if you're coming on a show called Sasquatch Odyssey, you're going to be talking about Bigfoot, or at least you would assume that, and I did. I reached out to them and clarified, and I said, look, I'd really love to talk about the missing four on one. I'd really like to talk about the people that have lost their lives and their families that want answers and that kind of thing. He appreciated the clarification because at the end of that show, if you listen to it on Bigfoot and Beyond.
I think it was Cliff that asked him, do you think there's a piece of this that could be a Sasquatch involved? He was very careful in his answer. He was very upfront and said, look, people contact me every day with these stories of their loved ones that have disappeared, and they want help. If I go out and start talking about Bigfoot grabbing people in the Woods. My credibility is shot. These people not going to contact me anymore. He's got a valid point, right. This man was in law
enforcement for years. That's when I reached back out to him and I shot him a message and said, look, man, I get that you can't talk about that, but I've got a platform people needed to hear about the missing. For one one, they need to watch your documentaries and they need to help you find these answers to these disappearances. I think that will be
a very interesting conversation because I've found both movies really interesting. I haven't read his book yet, but some of the interviews on YouTube as well were very interesting in that they gave more of that impression of some of the really strange kind of disappearances that have happened in the national cards and in the wilderness. I just think that after my experience, there's obviously a lot of stuff going
on in the wilderness that we're not aware of. In the Pacific Northwest, there are just areas that are pretty much impenetrable to humans, so you have to worry about one hundred thousand people going out there looking for Bigfoot. But for me, there's something that should be left alone. If they do obviously are out there as far as I'm concerned, They've been out there for a
long time. They have a habitat, and I think the best thing we can do to honor them is to just leave them to that habitat as much as we can. You realize that for many of your death that's not so easily fed because it's in their backyard. Again, it really appreciate all of other guests should have been on the show. I appreciate you coming on and sharing your story tonight. It's a fascinating encounter. Frankly, it's probably the best way possible. I think the universe heard you and it gave you a
great signing. I've said numerous times the best way to see them is fifty miles an hour, thirty yards away in a car. Is probably the best way to have an interaction with these things. Because I don't think they're the friendly forest giants. I don't think they're all bloodthirsty killers, but I do think they're animals. I would treat them like a bear. They're animals and this is their habitat. They're a lot bigger than me. I know that
even chimpanzees are way stronger than a human being. Why run into somebody else's habitat and you mesch with them. I'm just asking for trouble. They say, you don't gotta go home, but you can't stay. I don't want to be long world up it. Try this job that chart. Everything came right back, ride back the joy for me. Joy stay right there, come in right away. In still states SUSS and still starts sat side side and statist still SUS. Also games still states states as fasts fences,