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That's Called Growth

Jun 01, 202354 minSeason 1Ep. 8
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Episode description

2013, the year Damon started SNCTM, was a decade ago – gag. And, at the time, this high-end sex club was new, exciting, and transgressive. Now, looking back, we examine the complicated legacy of SNCTM – from pleasure paradise to messy free-for-all – and the lasting impact it had on the people who worked and played there. After all that went down, where are Damon and Melissa today? 

And we ask the question: is sexual freedom like… even possible? Plus: Karley goes to SNCTM – yay!

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Transcript

Speaker 1

School of Humans.

Speaker 2

Sanctum Unmasked is about a sex club and describes various sex acts. Please use discretion where and when you listen. So let's go back for a minute to twenty thirteen, the year Damon started Sanctum. Twenty thirteen might not seem that long ago, but it was definitely a decade ago gag and also a very different time. If you need a refresher, President Obama was beginning his second term, Wrecking

Ball by Miley Cyrus was driving everyone insane. The world was finally emerging from the recession of the financial crisis and entering a period of refocusing on wealth and status. Also, sexual taboos were still very much taboo back then, like high end sex clubs weren't really a thing yet, at least in the US. People still liberally threw around the

word hooker as an insult. Gave marriage wouldn't be legalized in the US by the Supreme Court for another two years, and the Me Too movement and all of the conversations around consent that it inspired was still years away. Basically, we've come pretty far. You couldn't conceive of Sanctum today and build it to be what it was yes It was new, exciting and transgressive, but it was also very right place, right time.

Speaker 3

Damon just represented this culmination of seeking the high end. So what was the ultimate of sex? Damon brought that culture to, you know, a certain level of people who could pay for it, but weren't cool enough to find it themselves. He took the obvious and made it work.

Speaker 4

Maybe what I did is fucking stupid and pointless and just like all about gluttony and selfishness, turn it into whatever you want. I created, you know what became quoting the press the most elite sex club in the world, whatever that means to people.

Speaker 5

Does that have any value? Whatsoever? I mean, I don't know, but certainly there is incredible value.

Speaker 4

I think in this idea that we set ourselves free to consider what are the possibilities for us as individuals? You know, what might we do if we weren't so constrained in our own minds about what is right and wrong and correct and incorrect? Because if I did anything, I actually allowed myself to dream and then made.

Speaker 5

That dream come true.

Speaker 2

Welcome to Sanctum Unmasked. I'm your host, Carl Schortino. So to answer Damon's question, Yeah, a lot of people would argue that Sanctum in an out of itself, had incredible value. Of all the people we talked to during this process, Claudia, Sanctum's longtime performer, was the one who consistently spoke of her time at Sanctum as deeply transformative.

Speaker 6

I feel like it just opened my eyes to so much. Like it opened up my eyes to sexuality, my own sexuality, my comfort level with myself, and just looking at sex a little less taboo.

Speaker 2

And she credits a lot of that to Damon personally.

Speaker 6

Damon just has like a natural aura to him, Like if you talk to him for five minutes, you're like, Okay, this guy doesn't like have a bad bone in his body. He wants everybody to do well. He's everybody's biggest fan. Like he's a lover of life and love, and like you pick up on that.

Speaker 2

David Winkler had a somewhat similar experience. Remember he's the sugar Daddy who had a threesome at Sanctum that ended with applause from boy or guests glamorous. For David, his time at the club had a laugh impact on his relationship with himself and his partners.

Speaker 7

I think Sanctum contributed to my sexual exploration in that before I went, I wondered, is there something really kinky about me that I just don't know that I haven't explored? You know what am I missing? Because I'm really vanilla? Like I tried choking a girl in section. She laughed at me, She's like, come on, David, you're too nice cute. You know, you go and you see people with whips and chains, and you see people tied up, and you

see people using toys you've never seen before. And I was actually surprised that I didn't discover that there was anything kinky about me that I never knew. I don't know if you can call anybody who has a threesome, you know, on a massage table in front of twenty people vanilla. I think that what I discovered was I was more confident than I ever knew. But I definitely felt that I was part of a community, and I definitely felt that I was not alone. And I definitely

became much more comfortable discussing sex with other people. And I feel like I'm a better partner because of my experiences.

Speaker 2

Yet again, wholesome. Now, this is not the outcome most people would expect from an elite and depraved Hollywood sex party, right, but it's kind of inspiring, of course, Like literally anything on Earth, people's experience of Sanctum varied widely. Take Lea,

for example, who we met in a previous episode. She's been going to Sanctum as a guest since twenty fifteen, and she's a bit of a sex party connoisseur, having been to many different types of events, from high end sex parties to more DIY floor mattress vibes to be DSM dungeons, and so her take on Sanctum as an institution is pretty specific. In certain respects, she could see that it was offering something invaluable.

Speaker 8

When I've gone to Sanctum, it's been a lot of newbies, and I do feel like it has been nice to see people take that first step. I brought a friend and there was someone flogging and sinking, and she had never done anything like that, and so it was really lovely seeing her kind of like spread her wings a little bit and have that like first effort vescence of like ooh. I liked this sensation.

Speaker 2

However, from her perspective, Sanctum didn't offer the depth of community that other sex parties have been able to In part, she feels because the elite and exclusive nature of it creates a kind of performativity that can be a barrier to connection.

Speaker 8

I feel like spaces to explore sexuality should be affordable and accessible. I would say that Sanctum is a very glamorous, elite sex that focuses on aesthetic and offers opportunities to be a voyeur and to dip your toes into the realm of sex parties. But I would say that it

does not necessarily offer the authenticity of intimacy. I think that anonymous element is actually a really huge part of it, and it's funny because it's personified literally through the mask that is the emblem of Sanctom, and it encourages you

to continue wearing the mask, not literally but symbolically. And I feel as though some of the other sex party experiences I've had really wants you to take off these layers so that you can connect deeper in maybe that intimate way you've never shared with anyone else before, but in a space that you can be held in and seen.

Speaker 2

So like Sanctum was fun for sure, but for Lea, and I'm sure a lot of other people. There's something about having a more inclusive space that allows for a more meaningful community to develop too. Of anyone we spoke to,

Ambrose's experience of Sanctum was definitely the most complicated. He held multiple positions throughout his three years working the club, from the bunny role he was hired for, to being a dom to a live sex performer, and as we talked about, a side hustle sex worker, and there were some times when the club was empowering for him.

Speaker 9

It meant so many different things to me at different points at Sanctum, I was in the dom role, Like I was like the house dom and stuff, and like sometimes during that time it was literally what was saving me and keeping my head above water because I felt so meek and small and like fragile from my abusive ex And then I'd like be able to come to Sanctum and like step into those six inch I heels that I wore, whar this tight skirt thing or what have you, and have the whip, but know that people

listen to me and looked up to me and whatnot. It definitely kind of helped me through that in some.

Speaker 2

Ways, at other times it sucked, if you remember. Ambrose also talked about being sexually assaulted by guests, particularly one creep who was trying to put his fingers in Ambrose's vagina when he wasn't looking, which clearly falls into the category of never fucking do that. I mean, I've said it before, but it bears repeating. Sanctum was a messy free for all at times. Stuff that was happening at the club in twenty thirteen, even twenty seventeen would never fly now.

Speaker 9

They didn't like teach people enough about like informed consents.

Speaker 1

They would also like, let you drink a lot.

Speaker 9

And it wasn't until like towards the end of being there that they tried to cut back on people's drinking as performers. And I feel like it definitely added to my alcohol problem, And there were different times when I got coke from people who worked there or people who were guested there who had it.

Speaker 2

Ambrose's experience was also especially complicated because of his close personal relationship with Damon. They've both said that for years during Sanctum they felt almost like siblings. They were each other's confidants. However, after Ambrose left Sanctum and had more distance from it, His feelings about his time there started

to sour. He started talking negatively about the club publicly saying that Sanctum was a toxic working environment, and Daemon was upset about it and also confused because he says, Ambrose never aired those grievances with him personally. Today they don't speak. Of course, our experiences of our lives, sex, very much included, are not binary. Something can be fun and enlightening and traumatizing all at once. It's like a

but for feelings. Or sometimes something can feel okay or even good in the moment, and then years later we look back and think, oh my god, how did I survive that.

Speaker 10

For lobsters, right, you put them in the water and then it starts boiling and they're like, oh, what a nice warm Beth. They don't realize they're in the boiling water till it's killing them. And I didn't realize I was in a not great environment. So it was like, you're really not okay for me.

Speaker 9

In some ways I regret it. In some ways, I wouldn't change anything.

Speaker 2

What seems consistent is that people were changed by their time at Sanctum. For better and sometimes for worse. Despite the emotional chaos, rampant elitism, and murky boundaries, Sanctum was able to offer something to people that they couldn't find elsewhere. When I asked Melissa about the cultural significance of Sanctum, she had this to say.

Speaker 11

I think as a society, as a community, I think it's a good thing to open up the dialogue of sex and sexuality. And if Sanctum was that, then I think that that's great. I'm sure it helped some couples. I'm sure it tore some couples apart. It did for me, you know, my relationship fell apart. But I do feel like, all in all, it's exactly as it should have been.

Speaker 2

What's that saying hindsight is I was twenty twenty. But where are Damon and Melissa today? We'll get to them after the break. So when we left you last episode, Damon was confronting the reality of his sex and alcohol addictions, and he ultimately decided to sell Sanctum, a decision he never thought he'd make. And if you've been following the show, you know that Damon went on quite the odyssey to

get to that point. From bankruptcy to billionaire orgies, to blood oath initiation rituals, Damon achieved his crazy, honestly stoned sounding dream. Who have thought Tom crowse would be so inspirational. Damon bluffed his way to incredible success and then delivered. And throughout this process, his morals were tested and he was forced to make big decisions. When I asked Damon if he feels he chose wisely, he said this.

Speaker 4

These were things that I couldn't say no to. You know, I had to go on this journey. But having done it, you know, if someone could give me this time machine and say you can go back to that time and you can just put your head down and keep selling real estate and not have created this thing at this moment in my life, I would have never drawne that symbol.

I would have never gone on this journey because losing and giving up and pushing away the things that meant and mean the most to me in this life was a mistake.

Speaker 5

That's my truth.

Speaker 2

So we all know Damon's like, whoops, I gave up my family for this dream. But you might be asking yourself, where's Melissa in all of this? I don't know about you, but I'm really invested in her happiness. By this point, Melissa was always Damon's biggest supporter, through the good and the bad. Through losing everything in the financial crisis, escaping to Bali only for Damon to refuse to pay them

mafia and almost get himself killed. Through raising kids, infidelity, dealing with substance abuse issues, multiple emotional breakdowns, more infidelity, divorce. You can imagine how that relationship today might be difficult, But actually they're pretty good friends and successfully co parenting their kids. Melissa is now happily living that domesticated family life. She always felt drawn to remember her boyfriend Billy, who she broke up with to get back with Damon, only

for it to crash and burn for the seventieth time. Well, Billy ended up sticking around.

Speaker 11

Currently, I'm remarried with four teenagers living in Westwood, super domesticated life or like the Brady Bunch.

Speaker 2

That's Damon and Melissa's two daughters plus Billy's two teenage kids as well, living that mixed family Kardashian general lifestyle.

Speaker 11

I'm going to culinary school, taking a course in restaurant management because I have been asked to open a restaurant with a friend of mine, and I'm like, well, yes, but.

Speaker 1

I don't know anything about the restaurant business. So currently that's literally what I'm doing. I'm like in school and I'm a mom and just live in here doing the thing.

Speaker 2

When I asked Damon how things were going between him and Melissa, now you could tell it was a vulnerable question for him.

Speaker 5

I'm curious to know what she would say.

Speaker 4

You know, our relationship now is very loving, very caring, but we don't spend much time together. She is married and she is on her own path, and she's trying to make the best life she can with her new husband. And you know, she has the kids far more than I do. I do plan on adjusting that now soon. But our relationship is as good as it can be. You know, we shared an intimacy and a love and a companionship that we just can't anymore. But we are

very kind and civil and good with each other. I hope that she would say the same thing to me. I mean, is she carrying around like animosity and like bad feelings towards me? I mean maybe somewhere, but she doesn't express it to me.

Speaker 1

He seems great and better than I've ever seen him.

Speaker 11

And I'm proud of where he's come from and everything that he's done and gone through and he's come out the other side, and you know, we're still great friends to this day.

Speaker 2

I mean, you know, he says, if I could go back, I would never do it.

Speaker 5

Yeah, I know.

Speaker 1

He said that to me all the time, and.

Speaker 2

I don't want to put words of mouth, although I'm not really, but I think he's like not over it.

Speaker 11

I represent a security for him. It took care of him, cooked for him, coddled him. I was a loving, affectionate like I was all of that enveloped for him for years. I was also incredibly codependent, you know, like I'm doing my own therapy and work on myself and I'm the

biggest codependent there is, you know. So I just wanted to be loved and I just thought that that's what it was, and so I gave everything and then some and the boundaries were pushed and I didn't care, and I just kept the relationship afloat and a float and a float, and that was that's on me. You know, I'm still that woman, and I'm still doing all the things taking care of my family, taking care of my

new husband. But I think that I represent security, and I'm the mother of his kids, and I know that he loves them, and I know that he loves me deeply.

Speaker 2

Damon and Melissa met when they were really young. She was eighteen, he was twenty six, and they were together for twenty years. That's a long time. Actually, it's three times longer than the average celebrity marriage. Fun fact, if anyone cares. And in that time they realized that what they each needed to be happy was really different. It's a familiar story. You remember Hadria, Damon's sister. Well, she and Melissa are still close too, and they still sometimes

get together and gossip about Damon. I mean, how could.

Speaker 12

You not Damon when he met mel I feel like they were partying a lot. They grew together, but a part in ways, because Damon is still Damon and mel kind of grew up and they still have an incredible love for each other and an understand I don't think anybody understands Damon the way mel does. But as I was saying, you look at her partner. He's not like Damon, Mel's husband now, he's like super grounded, works hard, does well You know, it's like stable.

Speaker 2

Which is what Melissa always wanted. Stability. And while Damon has many wonderful qualities, I think he himself would admit that stability has not been one of his top priorities. But one thing he does excel at is saying exactly what's on his mind, which is a quality that's perhaps polarizing, but that I definitely feel drawn to. It certainly makes

for a good podcast subject. At least. It's this sort of unfiltered honesty that is made speaking with Damon over these past months so fun because he says shit like this.

Speaker 4

I mean, I've always wondered I'm going to say it out loud, because fuck it, you know, I've always wondered what it would be like if we had sex again.

Speaker 5

Like I can't help but wonder.

Speaker 4

I mean, we're like brother and sister in a way at this point, but I still wonder, like, what would it be like if me the way I am now and her the way she is now, if we came together and we could really just like have that experience. I mean, it might be just fucking stellar. You know, I don't know, and I'm never gonna find out, but.

Speaker 5

I just said it out loud.

Speaker 4

I hope you're listening, Melissa, She's gonna be like, Damon, shut the fuck up, what the fuck is wrong with you?

Speaker 2

I can tell you hear her saying that right now, and I can hear her saying that too. So Damon and Melissa's daughters are now fourteen and seventeen, which is a complicated period of your life to confront the fact that your dad ran, you know, the most elite sex club in the world. It's kind of a given that no one wants to think too hard about their parents having sex, let alone having blood, ritual porn, fivesomes or

whatever the fuck Damon was up too. But Damion and Melissa are doing their best to manage this reality for their daughters in whatever ways they can.

Speaker 1

They don't follow him on social media.

Speaker 11

We've like blocked that connection, like we got smart with all of that because we weren't back then. He's sat them down and talked to them about what he did for a living. And I know they've seen some imagery online because you can google it and you can find a whole bunch of stuff.

Speaker 1

So I know that they've done that.

Speaker 11

They all have phones, they all have access to the Internet, so cats out of the bag, like they know. But the thing with our girls is they're very mature. They are super savvy and street smart.

Speaker 1

It just is what it is.

Speaker 11

And I think they love their dad so much and they love me so much, and.

Speaker 1

It's just an accepted part of their lives.

Speaker 2

But also there might be some perks to your dad being a former sex god.

Speaker 4

I'm so when they can talk about anything about sexuality with them, not like, you know, make sure he wears a condom, which of course is important, but like there's other parts of sexuality they're important too, you know, And I'm able to talk to them about that stuff, like have conversations, Like sex can be fucking amazing and beautiful, but you have to really be open with your partner and talk about it before and some of it's going to be embarrassing, So like, you know, make sure that

you have a dialogue because it's going to be a major part of your relationship.

Speaker 5

It just is.

Speaker 2

So one of the most interesting parts of this whole story to me is that after all of his exploration, after years of doing sanctum, trying nominogamy, fucking ten thousand women, and flogging every willing Hoe in Beverly Hills in search of sexual enlightenment. After all that, where Demons ended up today is he's realized that what's right for him is monogamy.

Speaker 11

I know.

Speaker 2

Right now. Demon says he's been alcohol free and casual sex free for about a year and have and that journey began at the start of twenty twenty two with sixty days of celibacy.

Speaker 4

I mean, I've been in AA and I spent a lot of time. Then I did the steps and all of that. But you know, when I went to the sex anonymous meetings, I don't know, I felt uncomfortable there. It didn't feel like it was working, or I shouldn't say it didn't feel like it was working. I didn't give it a chance to work. But what I did was I just because alcohol is abstinence, I decided to be sexually abstinate, you know, I decided to be celibate.

And in sixty days of celibacy, my compulsions and the things that I was doing became under control and I and one day at a time, I would say like, okay, no texting, you know, no sending videos back and forth. If you receive a video deleted immediately, like any interactions you have with women are platonic. You are not having sex one day at a time.

Speaker 2

After sixty days of not railing, for the first time in years, he felt like he had some semblance of control over his sexuality. He felt good, and he discovered this this other crazy thing, which is that you can be a man who's actually just friends with women who knew now. Damon says a primary focus of his life is making sure that he maintains discipline when it comes to his addictions, because he wants to show up as his best self for his family, and he's actually really

enjoying his new, less unhinged lifestyle. Yeah.

Speaker 4

I mean, it's an alcoholic, always an alcoholic. I mean probably, it's a sex addict, always a sex addict. Probably it's in you. But you know, if you do the work, then I don't have the cravings to either drink or you know, engage in sort of like sexual activity that

could be harming to myself or others. And when I say harming, I don't mean in the sense that I would ever do anything nonconsensual, because I wouldn't, but that I would do things that maybe would harm a relationship I'm inn I would do things that were just extremely selfish and I just didn't care. I didn't give a fuck, Whereas now I do feel like, you know, I have a responsibility to the people in my life that I care about and that I love, you know, and I want to be who I am today.

Speaker 2

Essentially, after rebelling against the status quo, after his Holier than Now monogamy is for idiots, marriage is bullshit era, he was able to step back, assess his own experiences, and make an informed decision about what actually makes him happy.

Speaker 4

I stepped into monogamy with a feeling that this is how it had to be. That's all I heard growing up, and that's all I knew. And I was like, I don't like being forced into this thing. I'm going to rebel against it. And boy did I rebel against it.

Speaker 11

Right.

Speaker 4

Like, if you force people to do things that you think are morally right, if you force them into that place and you cancel or shame them because they're not in that place, they're going to rebel against it. What I learned was that once I was given sort of my free will back, Okay, damon, you're free choose what's best for you. I actually ended up choosing monogamy and committing to it as a personal decision, and it made such a fucking difference.

Speaker 11

Right.

Speaker 2

Doing something by default doesn't leave much room for autonomy. And this isn't to say that monogamy is right or wrong. The point is not being shoehorned into a lifestyle because you know, society told you it was the only option, having the space and opportunity to choose something that's really powerful. Until recently, Demon was in a monogamous relationship for one year until they mutually called it quits. But the monogamy

was a positive experience. Now he's single, and according to him, he's decided to only have sex within the context of a committed relationship.

Speaker 4

I am experiencing sexual enlightenment, but as far as, like, you know, really having sort of a transcendent sexual experience, I'm finding that it comes with commitment to a person and trust and feeling really safe with that person. You know, having that kind of sexual enlightenment cannot come from having multiple partners and different people every night. And you know, can you find it there? I didn't find it there.

Speaker 2

There's a quote from the famous sex therapist Esther Perel that I really love and I think is relevant here she says, sometimes when we seek the gaze of another it isn't our partner we are turning away from, but the person we have become. We are not looking for

another lover as much as another version of ourselves. Basically, it can be unfortunately easy to start feeling like you're boring or unattractive, or like your life has become too predictable, And a big way that many of us try and mend that problem is by seeking out someone new who could make us feel desired or interesting through their eyes.

And it works for a while, at least until you have to do it again and again, and you know, it's, like Melissa said last episode, I'm paraphrasing, but if you're trying to fill the emotional black hole inside your chest by fucking as zillion people, it's.

Speaker 1

Not going to work.

Speaker 2

Ultimately, it's about are you enough? Sure? Sanctum and all the sex and praise and celebrity it brought to Damon made him feel special, but like with any addiction, the highs were high but short lived, and the lows made him want to blow his fucking brains out. His words clearly this emotional rollercoaster was rough on Melissa too, but there was something she took away from spending so much time with all those pervs.

Speaker 11

In my sex life. Now, I am not any of those things. I'm not kinky like, I'm not like that. But what I did take away from that whole experience is, you know, a knowledge of human desires and what people want and need. I saw so many different types of people at that club, because there's a lot of celebrities that went.

Speaker 1

There, are a lot of moms and dads that went, people that you would think would be at a club like that.

Speaker 11

So now when I walk around on the street or when I'm like in some kind of social place, I'm like, mm hmm, you don't fool.

Speaker 1

Me with that, Paullyanna look you're trying.

Speaker 11

To do Because everybody I think has some kind of interest or some kind of thing with like exploring that where they want to tell you that or not.

Speaker 2

It's true. Believe me, I've interviewed enough square seeming marine biologists who moonlight as professional doms to know that while one may read as normcore, there's a good chance they're actually a freak from how It's part of what makes people so weird and exciting, and as hard as it all was for Melissa, she's come to accept the journey for everything it represents.

Speaker 1

It was an interesting part of my life, for better or worse.

Speaker 11

I don't really regret it, like it's all part of the movie, the Story of my life.

Speaker 1

It was a chapter. It happened. I own it. I did it, like just that's what I was.

Speaker 2

Interestingly, in the process of making this podcast and reflecting on his own experiences, Damon made some unexpected discoveries about his past. If you remember a few episodes back, we learned about Demon and Hadria's childhood growing up in northern California and a household full of alcohol and drugs, physical

and sexual abuse. In one particularly harrowing moment, Hadria recalled being present while Damon, who was six at the time, was being molested by an older family member of theirs, and what Hadria didn't realize during our conversation was that Damon actually didn't remember her witnessing that well.

Speaker 4

Before she did the podcast, she said, can I talk about everything?

Speaker 3

You know?

Speaker 4

Is there anything off the table? And I said, no, I've I talked about our childhood. I'm not holding anything back, and then afterwards, you know, she said, I talked a little bit about what happened with you. And I was like, what do you mean, And she was like, well, I was there. I had forgotten that. I had forgotten that she was in the room when it was happening and she was watching. I don't know if I had forgotten it or blocked it out, but when she said it,

I instantly remembered that she was there. I instantly remembered moments when she said to me, like, I want to do this too with you. It looked fun because you're a kid, and it does look fun, probably, And I said, no, I must have known that it wasn't okay. We were there together in this, in this insanity and this abuse, and we were like each other's there was no one else there to protect us.

Speaker 5

But each other. And yeah, so like I knew that, I knew that I couldn't.

Speaker 4

I knew that I didn't want to cross that line with her even as a little kid.

Speaker 2

After this revelation, demon put together that there might be some connection between his sister watching him expe sperience this as a child, and thirty five years later choosing to have sex in front of an audience at Sanctum.

Speaker 4

At Sanctum, I mean it's fun to have people watch, and I could almost feel especially energy from females who are watching, like that feeling of like that looks fun.

Speaker 5

It's so weird. It's what happened when with my sister though that looks fun.

Speaker 4

This is like the stuff you talk about with a shrink, right, I mean it really is, like, you know, to be saying all of this out loud is insane.

Speaker 2

Perhaps insane, but also interesting. I guess podcast interviews are the new therapy.

Speaker 5

God.

Speaker 4

All of that stuff is just so intense and I definitely have like pushed it down and in some ways, you know, this project Sanctum was, you know that there was a lot of that in there. There was this incredible childlike beauty and curiosity about sexuality mixed with this darkness of abuse and confusion.

Speaker 5

And that's what Sanctum was.

Speaker 12

I do want about Sanctom Why Damon chose all that and then getting celebrities to think she's great and all the people celebrating him, and its confusing as being sexually abused, Like physically it feels good, but maybe it's not good, Like how do you connect those two. That's what's so confusing about sex in general. I think that what Damon and I went through as children definitely fucked us up somewhat. I know I have issues that I'm still working through.

Speaker 5

I think he is too.

Speaker 12

I feel like he's in a much better place, and it seems like that's where he is now.

Speaker 2

Obviously growing up together in that often dark and chaotic environment, demon and Hadria share a specific and special connection. Like Melissa, Hadrian knows Damon in a rare and intimate way. She knows his joys and his pains. She knows him at his best and his worst too, and like any sibling, sometimes she like to drag him.

Speaker 12

I love him. I think that Gamon is he doesn't even realize sometimes what he does. I was talking to Melissa about this, like he's kind of like, oh did I do that? Like I didn't realize that my behavior had affected you, kind of thing like well in a china shop.

Speaker 2

So basically, Damon's a hasti verkle. But seriously, those who know Damon best seem to mostly agree that his sometimes shitty behavior isn't coming from a place of malice or manipulation. He's just kind of clueless about it. Like Mike Sager put it, Damon just blunders forward. And honestly, all those billionaires and slubs that were jizzing all over his living room should be grateful for that, because Demon could have been way more conniving with the power he amasked.

Speaker 4

People were telling me at one point, like, you should get collateral on these people, you should hide cameras, so like, you know, you've got these billionaires fucking you know, these these girls, you've got like all these celebrities. If you had that man, you'd control Hollywood. But thank god, my instinct was to be like, ah nah, that's fucked up. Like I don't want to be that person, because I've made so many fucked up moral decisions in my life.

You know, I've done stupid things. And I understand how you could cross that line. I understand how you could take that power and be like, Okay, let's create like a secret cult for just these women, and we'll brand them and they'll be.

Speaker 5

Like our slaves.

Speaker 4

But luckily I could see how just manipulative and fucked up.

Speaker 2

That is. Lucky for the billionaires. Damon cared more about blowjobs than blackmail, as we've learned. While all the money and validation from celebrities were definitely perks, Damon's goal was more about sexual enlightenment, even if that desire led him down some dark paths. And Hadria sees that too.

Speaker 12

He's very spiritual, you know, but he's always right too, Like what he's doing in the moment is acceptable and right, and then maybe after the fact to look back and he'll think, that's not who I want to be. I want to do esteemable acts and be a good person. And like when he was doing Sanctum it was great, and now that he's not doing it, I think that he sees the things that aren't good anymore. It's funny because he's really naive in ways. He's not out to

hurt anybody, because there's no time for that. It's Damon's world. It's like he's a spiritual narcissist.

Speaker 2

You can always count on your siblings to be a little too real with you. But also, I mean, who among us hasn't looked back at our past and cringed about something or realized we were living life in a way that felt right at the time, but now looking back seems deranged. I'm pretty sure, that's called growth. After the break, I go to Sanctum.

Speaker 13

Yay.

Speaker 2

So a few weeks ago I finally went to Sanctum for the first time. This is Sanctum in its new incarnation, of course, if you remember from last episode. In twenty nineteen, Damon sold the club to an anonymous investment group called The Circle. Fittingly, I have to admit I went to the party not expecting to love it. I just anticipated it being a bit elitist and cheesy.

Speaker 11

You know.

Speaker 2

I was being pretentious about the expectation of other people being pretentious. But honestly, I had the best time, and I'm truly not just saying that because this is a podcast about Sanctum. Remember, they confiscate your phone at the door, so I don't have any photos or audio from the night, so you'll just have to take my word for it. The party starts late, so I showed up at eleven thirty. I'd come from a birthday party and was wearing a

sun dress with healed sandals. I'd brought a nicer outfit for the party, but I was being lazy and thought that I could maybe get away with what I had on and the dormant immediately looked me up and down and made a really disappointed face. And I was like, I have a slugier outfit in my bag, should I change?

And he was like, please, l rude. So I put on a corset dress and stilettos, and honestly, thank god because when I got in, everyone was very elegantly dressed, like tuxes or chic cocktail dresses or a lot of the women were wearing extremely high end slash complicated lingerie. There were about one hundred and fifty people there. No one was wearing a mask. Interestingly, I guess we're in a post mass society. To give you a picture, the party was at a giant penthouse in downtown LA. The

place was crazy. It took up the entire top floor, so all the exterior walls were these ginormous floored ceiling windows that had epic sweeping views of the city. The main area was a big open living room space with a free bar, and then there was a handful of bedrooms, which is where most of the fucking was happening. And then you could walk up this grand staircase to the roof, where there was a glamorous pool and a hot couple of naked, coked up hot girls giving blowdrops, and network

execs all overlooking the glimmering lights of Los Angeles. So basically, would all of those QAnon freaks think that Hollywood people are up to They're right, at least in this case. There was actually more racial diversity than I expected based on what we heard about Sanctum and its previous incarnation. However, it was still overwhelmingly white. It also skooed younger than I would have thought. The majority of people were mid twenties to forty ish, which is younger than in the

Damon days. I guess it's all that young tech money. Of course, the hottest guy talked to there founded a vight pen company, and Damon was there too, So in the years since he sold the club, he has not said the nicest things about its current iteration, saying that it feels sanitized, more corporate, that sort of thing. However, he's recently gone to the party a couple times after having not been in over a year, and he had an ex experienced that he wasn't expecting.

Speaker 4

Strangely enough, I went, and I was so happy and impressed by what the new owner is doing. It felt like a family reunion in some ways. There was so much love in that room. There's a lot of sexuality, and there were great people, and yeah, I just saw that like this thing that I created that I sort of have been in a way talking down on, you know, because for me, it was something that I needed to walk away from, and maybe to walk away from it, I had to have some animosity for it.

Speaker 5

But being there, I didn't hate.

Speaker 4

It at all, and I saw that I did create something really beautiful and really special.

Speaker 2

Honestly, he was kind of a celebrity at the party. A lot of people knew who he was and wanted to talk to him, and he was constantly surrounded by women who wanted him to tie them up in shibari rope bondage. I saw a couple of real celebrities, but iHeart lawyers won't let us drop any names, which is annoying. Also, I probably shouldn't out people if I want to be invited back. A real takeaway from Sanctum for me was

how almost eerily nice everybody was. There's also something about being in an environment where people are naked and having sex that just shatter social norms. It makes people way more likely to talk to strangers and just be vaguely unhinged in a fun way. And while it's annoying that I don't have any audio to play you from the night, it's also just so nice to be at a party where no one is texting or in a selfiek hole.

I got a chance to talk to Robert Artes, who's now the managing director at Sanctum, about all of this.

Speaker 14

I mean, it's like no other party and a degree of openness people have and how friendly they are. I'm continuously kind of surprised and our guests to come. Often the feedback that we get is about the crowd and the experience of meeting these other people.

Speaker 2

Currently, Sanctum hosts regular parties in New York and LA and occasional one offs in places like Miami and London. In Manhattan, they have a massive three story penthouse where they host all of their events, and the payment structure has stayed somewhat the same sense. Damon sold it. If you're approved into this exclusive society, one off tickets to the party start at twenty five hundred dollars per couple.

A yearly membership is twelve five hundred dollars. A Dominance membership is fifty thousand dollars a year, and there is also still a Violet Key benefactor tier, which they treat as more of an investor than a member that sells for one million dollars. Rich people are fucking crazy, And I mean, yeah, this shit is definitely elitist, but so is a lot of stuff like I can't go to the metcalap But I don't think that means it should

be canceled. I do think it's valid to examine the ways that the vast inequalities in our society can be problematic, and this is in part what we have attempted to do on this podcast. Interestingly, when I was at Sanctum, the majority of guests did not have sex. For the record, neither did I. I can barely hold hands in public,

let alone hook up in front of an audience. Many of the guests I spoke to about why they came to Sanctum said something similar Basically, where else can you get the experience of watching other people have sex and be part of that energy? I mean, fair point. The basic party format is the same as when Damon was running it. They still have the choreograph live sex shows. Obviously, there are some things about the party that are different now. I mean, in a post me to world, how could there not be.

Speaker 14

There was nothing so much that I wanted to change drastically about it, but I wanted it to evolve. I mean, we are a sex positive brand, and one thing that's incredibly important to us, and it's prerequisite for this working at all, is that we operate, for instance, on affirmative consent. If someone violates a core conduct, we have essentially a one strike policy. They just won't be friends.

Speaker 2

Fact, the club also occupies a different space culturally now, but according to Robert, that doesn't make it any less relevant.

Speaker 14

I think when it starts, it was on the fringes, but his time goes on, it's becoming less on the fringes. It's become edgy now. So I think the culture is shifting, and I think has a role in shifting the culture as well, showing people that this can be something beautiful.

Speaker 2

And it is beautiful, or at least beautiful enough that I stayed until four am and made roughly ten thousand new best friends that I'll probably never speak to again.

Speaker 4

When I was running it, you know, especially in the heyday. I had management coming at some point and start to kind of take over because to me, it was like, this is our world to just be fucking debochrous and anything goes. And you know, I don't like to say this out loud, but my performers were fucking guests and it was a free for all at times. But that doesn't happen anymore. He drew the line because he's a businessman and so with that mindset, it's a different party.

He found a way to sort of contain the parts that maybe weren't okay and still make it an incredible party. He took what I did, and he made it safer.

Speaker 2

Now, while Damon acknowledges all that's great about Sanctum today, he doesn't think it's perfect. And who can create the perfect sex club. Well, according to Damon, it's him and him alone, and so, shock horror, Damon is about to start another sex club. The club, which launches this summer, is called Puzzle. According to the website, it's a quote sensual utopia for fine dining and celebration in a member's

only sanctuary on the Sunset Strip. So Puzzle will feature fifteen dining tables, a swanky bar, a dance floor, and there will also be some tables with privacy curtains so people can indulge a bit more so to speak, so also sometimes host pajama parties. It's essentially a hybrid between what Sanctum was and a brick and mortar restaurant. There are three membership tiers. The top is ten thousand dollars a year, the bottom is twenty five hundred dollars a year,

plus the arm and a leg. You'll spend on the fancy food and champagne of course, And as the Puzzle application makes very clear, quote if you are accepted as a member of Puzzle, know how special you are. We don't have enough space to say yes to many. In fact, we only have room for the best. In other words, this podcast has not solved economic inequality. Damon's also launching a new cannabis brand, aptly titled sex Weed. Honestly, I got to give it to him. The name is good.

Speaker 4

I'm working on some incredible things right now, and I'm really excited about what's next for me. The things that I'm interested now in doing still involve sexuality. There's this skill set that I have that not that many people have, and I don't understand what it is exactly, but it comes from this root of love for being together with

another person, for making love and feeling those feelings. So I'm not abandoning sexuality, but I I'm ruining myself more in a place of how can I make these experiences the most beautiful and the most healthy that they can be.

Speaker 2

So the question we keep coming back to on this podcast is what happens when you shed societal expectations and just unapologetically pursue personal sexual freedom. What do you gain from that? And does there have to be a cost? Well, I think there's a lot to be gained. It's potentially an incredible adventure full of fun, weird, sexy, hilarious and connective experiences. There's also a lot of self knowledge to be gained in the exploration of sexuality.

Speaker 13

But yeah, I.

Speaker 2

Do think there's also a cost to this sort of pursuit. The physical and emotional vulnerability that's inherent in this exploration is risky fucking territory. Hello, That's why most people don't do it. For Damon, obviously, the cost was his marriage and not being around so much during his daughter's childhoods Unsurprisingly, a common cost of pursuing sexual freedom is sacrificing the opportunity to have a more traditional, committed relationship. As the

platitude goes, there's no reward without risk. But we also have to ask what does sexual freedom mean anyway? Does true freedom mean being able to do whatever the fuck you want twenty four to seven or does it mean something different? Because having zero boundaries isn't the same as being free. It might seem counterintuitive, but boundaries can actually be well Freeing limits help provide a structure for our lives and help to clarify expectations, which can be grounding

and can make us feel safe. And there's no freedom without safety. Also, too much choice can be oppressive and exhausting. It's like when you go to Sephora and are faced with a wall of forty thousand vitamin C serums and you freeze and then spend forty five minutes panic googling reviews and they get so overwhelmed that you leave with nothing. The irony is demon needed to make those choices, to take that risk in order to learn that actually it wasn't a risk worth taking, at least for him.

Speaker 4

And I do think that I started Sanctum with an idea of this like spiritualized sexual experience, but I got caught up in the ego of it. So rather than just say, okay, well this was all a wasted effort, what I'm feeling now really truly is that this was an incredible learning experience and I can go into places I wasn't aware of before and really make some special things happen. You know. I just want to be a great dad. I want to be a great ex husband.

Maybe I can go on to do something that has some real value.

Speaker 2

Our pal, Mike Saeger, had one final poignant observation.

Speaker 3

The conflict was Damon. He missed Melissa because he's a lover, not a fighter. He wants to be in a relationship. He's like the caricature of a man in that sense, wanting variety and yet wanting to be loved. Damon made that perfect kind of character that he's got it all, but he's not happy because he just wants to be like the rest of us. And that's the thing that

really strikes any audience. That's why fallible heroes and underdogs are the best characters in literature and storytelling, because people identify with that.

Speaker 2

And this is probably why you listener have made it here, because Damon's story, as bizarre and outlandish as it is, is inherently relatable and obviously all the blood of Ceremony stuff was hilarious too. But maybe something about this story sparked a curiosity about these things for yourself. So what can you do to find sexual enlightenment if you can't afford thousands of dollars for a ticket to an Illuminati

sex party? I don't fucking know. I don't know you, But a good first step, as Damon has pointed out, is to ask ourselves what would I want if I could have anything? Because when we break through our mental barriers and challenge the default settings we're taught to obey, that's when we begin to understand what we want and need, Like what turns me on? What kind of relationships make me feel safe and fulfilled? Where can I buy one of those sexy lamp costumes? And why the fuck is

sex work so taboo in our society? Why don't I just ask my partner to strap me down on the dining table and feed me lobster and donperi yon, or more realistically, shrimp from prosecco and then have their way with me. Having conversations about these things with your partner or your friends will ideally make you feel less alone. Like David Winkler said, You're not the only pervert in town.

Because true freedom, I think, is being able to decide for yourself, whether that means having daily five sums to the soundtrack of Monks Chanting or spending seventy years in a monogamous relationship. But finding what works takes some trial and error.

Speaker 4

And I'll leave it with this my Aunty West. You know, when I was doing Sanctum, she was.

Speaker 5

Like, what are you doing to change the world?

Speaker 4

All these you know, rich guys and young girls and it's just bullshit? And I'd be like, no, West, Like I'm fucking opening up people's minds and like society's been making people feel like sex was bad, and I'm like liberating people you don't understand, you know. While I was sort of like having that conversation with her and fighting against that any of what she was saying could be real. You know, with time, I look back and I think

maybe she was right about some of that. Maybe my intentions were good, but maybe I wasn't getting it right, and so yeah, maybe I'll get it right this time.

Speaker 2

And isn't that the hope for all of us? Then we'll get it right this time. Okay, I gotta go. I'm late for original sacrifice and I'm playing the Virgin Sanctum Unmasted is the production of School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts, Hosted and written by me Carly Schortina. Edily's Perez is our lead producer and story editor. Amelia Brock is our senior producer. Sound design, scoring and mixing by George Hicks. Original music composed by Jesse Niswanger, backchecking by

Austin Thompson. Local illustration by Linda McNeil. Clay Hillenberg is our recording engineer. Recorded at iHeart Studios in Los Angeles, California. Executive producers are Nick Stump, Jason English, Virginia Prescott, Branded barr Els Crowley, and me Carly Schortina. If you're enjoying the show, help us get the word out by leaving a rating in your favorite podcast app. You can keep up with Damon on Instagram. He's at Father Damon. Thanks for listening.

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