Sake in the Movies with Ben Haslar - podcast episode cover

Sake in the Movies with Ben Haslar

Apr 10, 202333 minSeason 3Ep. 143
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Episode description

Episode 143. Lights, Camera, Action! This week we are joined by fellow podcaster, film buff  and sake fanatic Ben Haslar, from the Reels of Justice podcast to talk sakes and film.  We focus primarily on the famous Birth of Sake documentary from 2015, a film that explores sake making at Ishikawa prefecture's Yoshida Shuzoten, the makers of the Tedorigawa brand of sake. If you haven't seen the Birth of Sake film yet, please watch it before listening! Seriously... Spoiler Alert! To pair with our discussion, we taste the flagship Tedorigawa sake - their Yamahai Junmai.  In addition to The Birth of Sake, Ben recommends his other top 3 movies that feature sake. Alright Mr. DeMille, listen in, as sake is ready for its close up!  #SakeRevolution

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Transcript

Show Opening

John Puma

Hello everybody and welcome to Sake Revolution. This is America's First Sake podcast and I am your host, John Puma, from the Sake Notes, I'm also the administrator over at the Internet Sake Discord and the lead mod over at Reddit slash sake community.

Timothy Sullivan

And I'm your host, Timothy Sullivan. I'm a Sake Samurai. I'm a sake educator, as well as the founder of the Urban Sake website. And every week John and I will be here tasting and chatting about all things sake and doing our best to make it fun and easy to understand.

John Puma

Well, Tim,

Timothy Sullivan

Hey, John.

John Puma

have you, have you been to the movies in a while?

Timothy Sullivan

Not in person.

John Puma

Not in person. No. You have not. When was the last time you actually set foot in a theater?

Timothy Sullivan

Oh gosh. Maybe six months ago.

John Puma

Oh, that's, that's not that bad.

Timothy Sullivan

Yeah.

John Puma

I feel like for me it's been at least a year

Timothy Sullivan

Oh my gosh.

John Puma

Yeah, it's been a while. I don't, I don't get out to the theater that often and that's what, not as often as I would like, but you know, are you a fan of film? Generally speaking.

Timothy Sullivan

I am,

John Puma

Alright, that's good.

Timothy Sullivan

I'm most a fan of is when I see sake in movies.

John Puma

Ah, so you don't get to see that many films then.

Timothy Sullivan

No, I don't, but I do know someone who can tell us a lot about sake in the movies. We have a special subject matter expert on the show

John Puma

today. Ooh, who

Ben Haslar, Reels of Justice Podcast

this

Timothy Sullivan

Yes. I wanna welcome our friend and big sake fan, Ben Haslar. he's coming to us from the Reels of Justice Film Podcast and we're gonna talk to him today about movies and sake. So Ben, welcome to the show. It's so good to have you.

Ben Haslar

Thanks. It's great to be here. I've been an avid listener of this show since day five, so this is a thrill for me.

John Puma

All right. That's great. And, um, Uh, we already know that you're a big movie fan. how did you get started with sake though?

Ben Haslar

How did I get started with sake? You know, I've always, uh, had it from like the sushi restaurants and stuff that, you know, everyone's had. Uh, and I liked it and it's not bad. my aha moment might not wow anybody, but it, for me, it was, uh, the Momo Kawa Ruby, uh, that, that I. Had chilled for the first time, which is not available anymore, sadly.

Uh, but that sort of kicked off my, okay, now I gotta try everything on this shelf, and I don't even remember what my second one was, but it was a long and lovely journey ever since then.

John Puma

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Timothy Sullivan

We'll, we'll keep that aha moment on the DL for now. Yeah. Now, you are a member of the Reels of Justice Film Podcast. Can you tell us a little bit about your podcast and how it connects to movies?

Ben Haslar

Yes. Uh, I'm a cinematic lawyer. Uh, we kind of have a joke where like we put movies on trial to see whether they're guilty of being a bad movie or not. So it's somewhat reminiscent of the show. Mystery Science theater, if you've ever seen that. Uh, but we, the, the good thing about the show is you get both sides of it. You have a lawyer who's unabashedly pro and a lawyer that's unabashedly against it. So you see both sides of, of each film.

Timothy Sullivan

Well, full disclosure, yours truly, Timothy Sullivan. I was a guest lawyer on an episode in February, and Ben you and I went head to head, didn't we?

Ben Haslar

Yes. And you, you beat me, sir. You beat me handily. I don't wanna spoil it, but it was, it was such a great, uh, recording. We talked about, uh, the last Samurai, a film I still like, but I do admit it has. Flaws. and it was such a great discussion and Timothy was so great on that show. No joke. We talked for 20 minutes after he hung up about how great he was on it. So you should absolutely head over and check it out. And John, you're coming over Someday too, I hope.

John Puma

At some point. At some, I, I was supposed to make the last Samurai, uh, edition, unfortunately, uh, COVID had other plans for me that day. When we, uh, think about sake and we think about movies, I think that, the first movie that comes to mind, uh, for, for a lot of us sake enthusiasts, is gonna be the Birth of Sake, uh, from 2015. Now, so this. When it was in production, they were, or pre-production, they were doing, uh, like a Kickstarter. I was a backer for that movie.

Ben Haslar

your name in the credits

John Puma

Yeah. Yeah. I'm in the credits.

Ben Haslar

right under John

John Puma

Uh, wow. Good. Lucky me. Tim, did you, were you, uh, at the ground floor on this

Timothy Sullivan

one I was a backer as well.

John Puma

Aha.

Timothy Sullivan

it through their Kickstarter, but I wasn't listed under the Kickstarter supporters For some reason. They had a, a title of special thanks, and I got put on the special thanks,

John Puma

Hmm.

Timothy Sullivan

would've, I could have been on both, honestly.

John Puma

I mean, I'll take special thanks if I can, if I can get it. That's pretty good, I think.

Ben Haslar

I put you first, right? You're thanked first and then

John Puma

Yeah.

Timothy Sullivan

Ben, I know you've seen the Birth of Sake, it's kind of the big kahuna when you talk about sake in movies, especially cuz it came out relatively recently. Do you wanna give us a little bit of a summary from your point of view, a high level summary of what this, movie's about?

Birth of Sake Documentary

Ben Haslar

Uh, yeah. It's a very, Contemplative look at one particular brewery Tedorigawa Brewery, uh, which does things in the very traditional fashion, uh, as opposed to, you know, they could put it against like the, the modern ways of doing things where everything's kind of done by machine. All of this is done by hand and is done with great intentionality, uh, carry on their traditions, like going way, way back. So that is the focus of the Birth of Sake. It's, it's a very intentional film.

Timothy Sullivan

Yeah, and I, I think a major theme of the documentary is the transition of generation. Like they, they talk a lot about the older master brewer, the older toji. Yamamoto San and he's getting on in years and he's passing the torch to the son of the current president, uh, Yoshida San who's gonna take over. And it's this moment of transition in the brewery too, from an older generation to a younger generation.

I think that's a major theme in the movie as well, and we have to stop and say, if you have not seen the Birth of Sake yet, Then you have to stop the podcast immediately, go watch it. And there may be some spoilers in our comments to come, so

Ben Haslar

There are spoilers in sake movies.

Timothy Sullivan

Yes, believe it, or not.

John Puma

Believe it or not, it does happen. It does happen.

Timothy Sullivan

Alright, so John, John, what are your impressions of the Birth of Sake?

John Puma

Well, for me, the, the first thing that came to mind as a, I remember, I do remember like the first time I saw it and I was just like, this is beautiful. And it was just, it does such a great job of making you feel like you are, there and you are, you are in there, you know, brewing the sake with this crew and you really.

They did, they did such a great job getting like the fly on the wall, sort of like, you're kind of like hearing conversations that maybe you're not supposed to be overhearing, that kind of thing.

Timothy Sullivan

Hmm.

Ben Haslar

This is what used to be used. Don't tell anyone.

Timothy Sullivan

I mean there, there was a scene of three of the brewers over 70 plus kind of frolicking in the onsen bath, so,

Ben Haslar

Full frontal male nudity isn't also not what I would've expected in a sake movie.

John Puma

So we've got, what kind of surprises do we have in store for us in the birth of sake? Number one? Spoilers. Number two, naked kurabito.

Ben Haslar

It is, it is a cultural difference though. It's not, it's not gratuitous or anything.

John Puma

No, no, no.

Ben Haslar

And also like a great sense of community in the movie. That's also like the third thing that it hits very, very heavily. Cuz these people are stuck together for six months. They have to work together at like 5:00 AM until late in the night every day with probably like little breaks here and there. Uh, you, you probably don't even have enough time to like get out and do anything. Like you couldn't watch the Birth of Sake, like in a full sitting probably.

Timothy Sullivan

Yeah. And what about the cinematography? I mean, that just was, I think, one of the highlights of the movie.

Ben Haslar

yeah, the black and white shots particularly that they kind of interlay like how sake is made, uh, along with like the traditional journey, uh, throughout those six months. So it'll talk about like Koji and like have an artistic shot of the. Steam and the raking of the grains and the spores kind of drifting over things and all of that, is very, very beautiful shots. Um, makes me wish that I could go to a brewery just with my camera to, to take some pictures, uh, in that sort of environment.

John Puma

Yeah, of the snow and the, and the rice and the bags and the the attire that they have to wear, when they're working, there's so much white that they go out, that they go in there and they really make that pop, so to speak, and make it really just look fantastic. It does. It's a, it's a beautiful film to look at. It's just really nice.

Timothy Sullivan

Well, I do have a little bit of feedback, or not criticism, but they're, they're having watched it a few times now. There, there are a couple things that I think could have been done a little differently.

I don't know what you guys feel about this, but they start the movie with rice steaming and Koji making, and then they jump back to rice milling and washing, and they have these, Text things that pop up to give you some information about the step they're showing and they're, they're out of order in the movie. And then they also jump from the brewers stuck in the brewery for those six months and they have these flashes to the Tochi with this family. And they go back and forth and back and forth.

And

Ben Haslar

Yes, that I. do agree with.

Timothy Sullivan

Yeah, I think if, if they wanted to give that sense of like, oh, we're in a cage here. We're isolated six months. I think they could have done that and then released them to their family and then showed them going back for the next year at the very end of the movie as they did. I think it would've had more impact if they sliced up the movie a little differently.

Ben Haslar

Yeah, but then the tasting of the sake would be like sort of at that two thirds mark. And that's kinda what you wanna say for the end. Like the, the, you know, the fruits of their labor, them drinking sake.

John Puma

I understand where you're coming from, Tim, but my thought on it is really that where they choose to start that movie, um, with them, you know, washing the rice and steaming the rice, it, it is so well shot and it is. Engrossing that you are hooked and you're in for the rest of it. And I think that's why they chose it was like the most, it was the most impressive visually, um, part of the film.

And I think it, I think they're using that to kind of hook the viewer and get them a hundred percent invested to see what's gonna happen next. Uh, yeah, it is out of order because of that, but I think that they, I think it was probably just a creative decision to get their, like best foot forward.

Ben Haslar

I agree with that. I, I've read this on a review, so this isn't my original thought, but someone said like, give it 15 minutes and if you're not interested, and you probably won't be, but odds are in that first 15 minutes, it will have you interested in how sake is made.

John Puma

Yeah, and I also think that it's probably also a decision of theirs to intercut those shots so that the, the viewer isn't, It doesn't feel like they're stuck in a brewery for six months necessarily.

Ben Haslar

Some of

John Puma

understand that the, we understand that they are, but giving them the contrast of seeing them with their families, that they're being denied, I guess maybe was meant to be a little, give you a little bit of chance to breathe.

Ben Haslar

I do like your thought on that though, Timothy. I'd like to see a different cut on that. Just to see like if you do get that caged in sort of version, it'd be like if, if you've seen Memento, you know, like it's sort of inter spliced, like release a cut that's like that, just like completely sequential and see how it changes the, the feeling of the film. The Timothy cut will be released soon. I hope.

John Puma

the Sullivan

Timothy Sullivan

Well, Ben, you know, you know, I'm a stickler for historical

Ben Haslar

Yes, absolutely.

Timothy Sullivan

Yeah, I, I really liked this movie. I saw it in 2015 when it first came out and watched it again recently, as we said a couple days ago. And I appreciated it even more, and I think that the fact that they jumped around in time and jumped around in the process a little bit. Didn't bother me as much as it did the first time. But I think I was looking at it very much from a sake professional's point of view.

And this time I had a little bit more like, what if I was just a consumer knowing, very little about sake, and it, it, I let it wash over me a little bit more. Just the visuals and just going with the flow and it's still really enjoyable, but I think it could have been that much more impactful if they, if they arranged the timeline a little differently.

Ben Haslar

Yeah, no, I agree. but yeah, the first time I saw it was before I listened to Sake Revolution. So as far as the order, I didn't really think anything of it. Uh, and then this time I was like so engrossed with like the artistic shots of it, I. Wasn't really thinking about order, cuz it's like, yeah, yeah, I know there's koji, I know there's steaming. I know there's all this stuff and it looks so good that it's hard to argue.

John Puma

Yeah. I think that anybody who's interested in how sake is made, uh, should definitely watch this film. I think that especially if you're, if you're a visual learner, it's like such a, like, you're, you're in there, you know, you're in the trenches. Uh, that's great.

Timothy Sullivan

should we talk about the big spoiler of all the spoilers of this movie? I

John Puma

Uh, I mean, it's up to you. listeners at home. This is your last chance to hit pause.

Ben Haslar

How are you not hooked yet? How have you not turned this

John Puma

know. Hit pause. Do that and then come on back.

Ben Haslar

Yeah, this was sort of like the big emphasis on community, how everyone's like sort of stuck in there because there is a death that happens later in the film and they're still so stuck to the brewery. Like they can't leave all this, these tanks alone for, um, for like even a couple hours that they couldn't even like attend a funeral. So that there is a big emotional gut punch at the end of this film.

Timothy Sullivan

Yeah, so there is a very shocking death of one of the younger brewers and it. Really throws you for a loop because you've come to learn everybody's names at this point and a little bit of their personality, and they show them interacting after hours and how they really are just all thrown together. And they have to live together.

Now, I, I worked at a brewery for one year, and my experience was very different because the setup at the brewery where I worked was much more like a nine to five schedule. Like they would schedule people to come in and work the overnight shift, but they didn't sleep at the brewery. We all didn't eat every meal together.

There was a lunch cafeteria where people could all have lunch together, but people commuted to work and sometimes worked an overnight shift, but it wasn't like, Every like six or seven people living together. So I had a very different experience, but that's definitely the old school way to do things.

John Puma

I do think that that, emphasis that they have during the story about like how the, doing things in the old way and it's the only, they say it's the only way to like get, to make good sake, uh, and that we need to keep making good sake in this way or el sake is not gonna survive. They, they really they, they're living this, this idea. They're not just, this is not just a job

Ben Haslar

Well, it's their tradition as well. I mean, they have a, a tradition for this brewery that's been handed down specifically for them.

Timothy Sullivan

And one thing that I really love is at the very end, they show the what happens to each of the characters that's working there. And two of the six or seven brewers. Choose not to come back for work reasons. So we have one, one pass away, unfortunately. And then two say they choose other paths. And it's really the older brewers that have the commitment to really come back and continue the brewing season for, another year of hardship.

So I, I love that at the end, that they show, like the decisions that each individual brewer makes about continuing on this path or, or not.

John Puma

Yeah. And, there's a bit of foreshadowing at the very beginning where the, the old Toji is, is there and he's looking at, they show the camera showing all the young kurabito helping out and how they, they needed to bring in some extra help. And he's talking about how he's gotta figure out how he's going to train this young generation to do this cuz cuz they need to pick it up and they need to do it, et cetera, et cetera. And, At the end, he's kind of still there. You know, at the end.

At the end, the older guys are kind of still, holding the ball in a way

Ben Haslar

Yeah, they sure make it seem like if you're not there like all the time and like everyone doesn't know what they're doing, like whole years ruined, like midway through, we screwed up one step of it. And this is a bad batch, sorry.

Timothy Sullivan

So, what do you guys know about the Tedorigawa brewery? It's in Ishikawa. Prefecture and I had the chance to visit there a couple times.

John Puma

I had a feeling that was gonna be the case.

Timothy Sullivan

you thought I might name drop that, John, right?

John Puma

Well, you know,

Timothy Sullivan

It's happened before.

John Puma

yes. Yes. Once or twice.

Timothy Sullivan

Yeah. It's a smaller brewery, as you mentioned, about six or seven brewers and let's see when they work. They're, uh, 145 years old now. Almost a hun coming up to 150 years old

John Puma

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Ben Haslar

I think they said the start of the Meiji restoration is when they,

Timothy Sullivan

yeah. Yeah. And, uh, we're actually gonna be tasting one of the sakes from Tedorigawa. That Ben picked out. So it's uh, one of the sakes you see prominently featured in this movie

Ben Haslar

It's the one they're making right? Like the Yamahai.

Timothy Sullivan

when the son yoshida San goes out to places in New York and around Japan and is basically selling his wares and the off season. This is the label that he's pouring is the one we're gonna taste today. So it's really special and super connected to this movie.

John Puma

Yeah. This is kind of their flagship sake. Uh, definitely is like the one you, when you see Tedorigawa someplace, this is the sake you see.

Ben Haslar

I'm very excited to try it because I've always, I've seen this movie and every time I'm ordering sake, I'm like, oh, I should, I should get it. But then I always sort of forget, like I get lazy and I don't wanna look it up and, and that sort of thing. So this will be so exciting

John Puma

So wait, so this, this will be your first time

Ben Haslar

for this particular, yeah.

Sake Tasting: Tedorigawa Yamahai Junmai

John Puma

Wow. Oh that's gonna be exciting. Oh, that's great. fantastic. And I think, uh, one more thing we should let the people at home know. By the way, guys, you can come back now., the spoilers are over. Uh, uh, we're actually gonna be, uh, trying this in two different ways. Oh my goodness. And we'll tell you what those ways are gonna be in just a moment. But first I'm gonna tell you the stats.

So, um, this is of course Tedorigawa Junmai Yamahai, the rice being utilized is, uh gohyakumangoku, uh, the same the rice milling percentage is 60%. The sake meter value, that measure of dryness to sweetness is plus six. So a little bit on the dry side. All right, maybe a little bit, a lot on the dry side., as we mentioned earlier, they are located in Ishikawa pre fixture, and the alcohol percentage is 15.8, and as we mentioned earlier, they are located over in Ishikawa, Prefecture.

Ah, so now we kept you in suspense. Tim. What are we gonna do to have this sake? Two ways.

Timothy Sullivan

Well, we all have this beautiful Tedorigawa Junmai Yamahai, and we're gonna be serving it chilled and we're also gonna try it warmed up. And this was actually Ben's recommendation because it's a Yamahai style. So maybe we should just very briefly talk about what Yamahai is. Yamahai is one of the alternate. Fermentation starter methods, and it is something that was developed around the turn of the century and it allows lactic acid to develop naturally and.

In a nutshell, Yamahai sakes can be a bit more earthy, a bit more umami driven, and a bit more robust. Typically, uh, there are more elegant examples of Yamahai and more rustic examples of Yamahai, but in a nutshell, if you had to explain it quickly, they tend to have a bit more earthiness and a bit more umami to them. So we have this sake, the tewa, Junmai, Yamahai. We have it chilled, and I have a wine glass here.

So to get things started, why don't we pour our chilled sake into the wine glass and give that a taste as a baseline.

John Puma

It sounds like a plan to me.

Ben Haslar

I really love this label too, that it's got like sort of the old style of them making sake, like where they're all like using the old tubs and stuff. It kind of kind of echoes what they're doing in the movie.

John Puma

Yeah.

Timothy Sullivan

Ben, that is such a great point. If you look at the label closely, and they've had this label for years, it's like a woodblock print, isn't it? And they're shirtless just like they were in the movie.

John Puma

Wow. They are wearing underwear. This time though.

Timothy Sullivan

Yeah. Yes. Alright. So you have it in the glass.

John Puma

I

Timothy Sullivan

All right. Let's give it a

John Puma

Ben. All right.

Timothy Sullivan

Mm. smells delicious.

John Puma

Yeah, I think this is what our friend of the show, Byron Stithem would call a pretty Yamahai

Timothy Sullivan

Yes.

John Puma

is it does have a nice gentle aroma.

Ben Haslar

It does. Makes me wonder if my heating ideas is gonna work out. Cuz usually it's like those like kind

John Puma

Well, we're gonna find out, hold that thought.

Timothy Sullivan

Yeah, so lovely., there's a very gentle rice aroma, bit of sweetness on the aroma., maybe a hint of yeast as well, but just really, very balanced and attractive aroma as well. Don't you think, Ben?

Ben Haslar

Yes, although you describe it much better than I do, uh, my, my sense of smell is not my, my best sense, taste is, is much, much better.

Timothy Sullivan

Right. Well,

John Puma

I think that's a hint, Tim.

Timothy Sullivan

in honor of your sense of taste, let's give it a taste.

Ben Haslar

Wow. I would not have pegged that as a Yamahai, just like blind.

Timothy Sullivan

Hmm.

John Puma

You know, Junmai definitely, but Yamahai not necessarily because it is again, pretty.

Timothy Sullivan

Yeah.

Ben Haslar

is. Yeah. Uh, I mean, it's not quite as like fruity or whatever as, as a lot of those other ones are. So it is being pulled back a little bit with, with the graininess. I guess. That's the Gokyakumangoku talking.

Timothy Sullivan

Yeah. Yeah. Gohyakumangoku is typically a rice from niigata. It's known for its ricey-ness, but it's restraint and I think that dials back some of the earthiness that you normally would expect from a Yamahai using that gohyakumangoku rice grain. Gives them a chance to bring out a bit of elegance in this Yamahai and it has a, John, I'm gonna use the word, it has a wisp. It has a wisp of earthiness.

John Puma

a wisp of earthiness. Oh,

Timothy Sullivan

it has a wisp of earthiness, but it is really balanced and ricey in the right ways and they found an elegance to the Yamahai. I think that's really super enjoyable.

John Puma

Hmm. Excellent. Well, now we got a little water to clean the palate before we dive into the warm version.

Timothy Sullivan

Guys, so what temperature have you warmed your Tedorigawa up to? Uh, I will. Let you know I use the sousvide method, so I put a sousvide stick into a pot of water, and I warmed mine up to 110 Fahrenheit. Ben, how about you?

Ben Haslar

I have less control over it. I've heard 105 is the magic number., and I have a sort of, sake warmer that has like a candle underneath it, and it tends to keep it at about that, that level. so I don't have the thermometer on me, but I, I usually trust it. It's, it's somewhere north of 100, less than 110.

Timothy Sullivan

Okay. And John, how about you?

John Puma

according to the manual for my twin bird, it is atsukan level, uh, in which they are reading as, uh, 122.

Ben Haslar

Wow.

Timothy Sullivan

Okay.

John Puma

Yeah. I can bring it down to Jo-kan.

Timothy Sullivan

There's no

John Puma

I'm just gonna

Timothy Sullivan

now.

John Puma

There's no going back. Yeah, exactly. It's gonna say funky if I go

Timothy Sullivan

Alright, let's pour it and give it a taste.

Ben Haslar

And that smell went away with the heat, but maybe it's the cup.

Timothy Sullivan

Oh, the aroma's very different.

John Puma

Oh

Timothy Sullivan

Yeah, we can smell them side by side. Oh my gosh. Compared to what's in my. Little ceramic cup here. The wine glass is smelling fruity in comparison, and it didn't smell fruity

John Puma

is

Timothy Sullivan

Yeah,

John Puma

no, I get a lot of, uh, steamed rice, um, on the nose with the warmed version.

Timothy Sullivan

All right. Let's give it a taste. Oh

Ben Haslar

That is different.

Timothy Sullivan

It's good.

Ben Haslar

It is. Um, I, yeah, I take it back. I do prefer it warm. So my, my streak of preferring Yamahai is warm, is, is still unchanged. Uh, but yeah, I, this is what I love about sake is how it changes not just from bottle to bottle, but temperature to temperature. You can just have so much fun exploring it.

Timothy Sullivan

Oh my gosh. For me, when it, when it's warmed up, the, it feels like the rice is like dragged out to the front and like, this is what it's all about. In the warm state. It tastes so much more rice and rich. And normally for me, the texture becomes a little more velvety when it's warmed. But I feel like there's, there's uh, just a little bit of sharpness here when it's warmed, but the rice flavor really dominates for.

John Puma

Mm-hmm. Yeah. It is powerfully Ricey. But the texture, you're, you're not wrong about that texture. it's, it's a bit of a change. It's so silky.

Timothy Sullivan

Yeah.

John Puma

very smooth. Now.

Ben Haslar

Yeah, it's like rice and then silk and then sort of that like alcohol burn at the end. So there's like that fun journey that that it goes through, which is, which is a lot of fun.

Timothy Sullivan

Yeah. But can you imagine if you were like, Out in the middle of the ishikawa, winter brewing sake at midnight and you were freezing cold. This would be like the elixir of life, I think.

John Puma

This would be, this would be a godsend in that scenario. but my, my apartment's actually kind of warm, so I think I was preferring, uh, cold out of the glass. But I think I'm in the minority in this group. Ben already weighed in. He thinks he likes it better. Warm. Tim, you're the tiebreaker.

Timothy Sullivan

Oh, just like on the Reels of Justice podcast,

Ben Haslar

Oh no.

Timothy Sullivan

I am gonna vote for the warm sake.

Ben Haslar

Yes. I knew you'd see things my way, Timothy.

Timothy Sullivan

Sorry, John. No, it's just, it's so special. It is cold out. So to have a warm sake, to have that super rich rice flavor is just has a little bit of sake magic tonight. So I couldn't resist.

John Puma

Hey guys. Go back and taste it when it's cold now. It's so fruity.

Ben Haslar

It is, it almost tastes different than when you had it the first time. That is so odd.

John Puma

It is so fruity now. Like I thought it was gonna kind of taste the same. I thought the aroma was gonna be a little different, but when I took that sip, I was like, wow, there's a whole nother, a whole nother world in the sake. After I have the warm sake, it kind of pairs in an interesting way.

Timothy Sullivan

Yeah.

Ben Haslar

This might be my new favorite, Yamahai. I haven't had it before. I like it. It it has, i I, I do like those, like Junmai ginjos and it sort of hits all of that sort of What's special about that and what's special about, um, about the heated sake.

John Puma

It does tricks.

Ben Haslar

does tricks.

John Puma

Yeah.

Timothy Sullivan

right. Well, Ben, I know you're a movie expert and you have this podcast related to movies. So for our listeners who are interested in sake featured in movies beyond the Birth of Sake, uh, what movies can you recommend for us to watch that feature sake in one way or another?

Ben Haslar

I just play a movie expert on radio, I'm afraid, but I do have three., there, one of my favorites is your name, which is an anime. it features some of the scenes about the old, old way of making sake. So Tedorigawa method, th there's a method out dates that, and that's where you would chew the rice up and spit it out into jugs. And that is featured in this movie. And I have to know, have you guys tried that?

John Puma

No. Um, number one, no. And number two, I'm really glad that that's not how they went about making the sake for this movie, for, for birth of

Ben Haslar

It's like you wanna try your own, but nobody else's like that would be,

Timothy Sullivan

I've, I've talked about that method in my classes, but never practical application. That's No, no, no.

Ben Haslar

I have done it and it's interesting.

Timothy Sullivan

oh God.

John Puma

Yes. Oh, I've not done it. May, Tim, maybe that's an episode idea. You and I will make, um, chewy sake, chewy, spit

Timothy Sullivan

Let's put a pin in that. Okay.

Ben Haslar

Second one, uh, is, uh, Ju-on the curse. Uh, if you've heard of the film, the Grudge, this is a film that that preceded it and it features a scene where someone uses sake as sort of a defining rod to see like how haunted a house might be or how susceptible a person might be to like supernatural influences, cuz the sake itself is very pure. So if you drink it and it. It tastes fine then, uh, either your place isn't haunted or you're not susceptible, so that's kind of a fun one to check out.

Timothy Sullivan

Is that a Japanese movie?

Ben Haslar

Yes, yeah, the original, Ju-on the Curse. Uh, you can find it on YouTube if you'd like. Um, and the last one, although it's only just one scene, but it, it just like strikes me as so weird, is the James Bond film. You only live twice where Bond insists on having his temperature served at 98.4 degrees as if it were 98.3. He could tell the difference.

Uh, but I wonder where he like gets that number from and like which sake in particular he was having, because maybe I'm wrong, but I've always heard 105 is and 120. Those two are the magic numbers for warmed.

John Puma

I don't know, based on a lot of the other cultural things in that movie, I'm gonna say they weren't necessarily going accuracy

Ben Haslar

no, that's true. And slightly racist that film, but it does feature sake.

John Puma

a, just a touch

Timothy Sullivan

there's a, there's a wee bit of cultural insensitivity in that movie

John Puma

Tiny. It was a different era though.

Ben Haslar

That is my trilogy of fictional sake movies.

Timothy Sullivan

Wow. All right. So if we want to have our sake film fest, we have a, we have a lineup now. Thank you, Ben.

Ben Haslar

But the Birth of Sake, bump that to the, to the front of

John Puma

Well bump that to the front. And, uh, and your name is also a phenomenal movie. It's a great, great film, even though they chew the sake and spit it into a

Ben Haslar

You're gonna try it someday. You know you are.

Timothy Sullivan

Okay. It's got, it's got the JP seal of approval. That's all I have to know. I'm on board.

John Puma

Yeah. Nice., so, Ben, thank you so much for, uh, joining us for this little adventure today. This has been a hell of a lot of fun. Um, where can our listeners find you online?

Ben Haslar

We are the Reels of Justice Podcast, so we are probably your next door neighbor as far as wherever you find podcasts. We're probably sitting right there to the, to the left of you. so yeah, Spotify or, or iTunes or any of those places you, you

John Puma

Great. All

Timothy Sullivan

All right. and we will be sure to list all the contact info for the Reels of Justice podcast in our show notes. So any listeners who are interested in learning more about Ben and his fantastic film podcast, please be sure to check out our show notes.

Ben Haslar

At the very least, listen to Timothy's episode. It's very

John Puma

good. Exactly.

Show Closing

Timothy Sullivan

All right, Ben, thank you so much for joining us., it was really, really fun to have you on the podcast.

Ben Haslar

Oh, this was my pleasure. Thank you so much guys.

Timothy Sullivan

John, great to taste with you,

John Puma

Always is.

Timothy Sullivan

lot to dig into in this episode. And I have this feeling there is another movie episode in our future, so let's, let's keep that in mind. Not only to John, but I want to thank our listeners as well for joining us each and every week, and a special hello and thank you to our patrons. If you would like to support Sake Revolution, you can join our community on Patreon. Visit patreon.com/SakeRevolution to learn more.

John Puma

And did you know that you can also buy Sake Revolution T-shirts? Yes, that is right., over at SakeRevolution.com, we've got a little store that you can check out. shirts that we're trying to add, new ones on occasion, we've also got stickers. Stickers are a lot of fun. Everybody loves stickers., so stickers and t-shirts, and probably some more stuff to come.

Timothy Sullivan

And our show notes are available to you each and every week. You can learn more about all of our amazing guests. You can see the Birth of Sake, trailer, and you can also learn more about Ben's podcast. And there's also a transcript each and every week. So be sure to check out our show notes at SakeRevolution.com.

John Puma

So without any further ado, please raise a glass., remember to keep drinking sake and Kanpai.

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