Funky Packaging: Kikusui Funaguchi Smart Pouch

Hello everybody. And welcome to sake revolution. This is America's first sake podcast and When you know it, I'm your host, John Puma from the Sake Notes. Also from the Internet Sake Discord and Reddit's r slash sake community.

And I'm your host, Timothy Sullivan. I'm a sake samurai. I'm a sake educator, as well as the founder of the Urban Sake website. And every week, John and I will be here tasting and chatting about all things sake, and doing our best to make it fun and easy to understand. Hey, John.

Hey, Tim, what are you hear?

Well, you know, I really liked our last episode focusing on the funk, funky packaging. Do you remember that? Yes.

in my mind. I distinctly remember the, the weirdly, um, uh, perhaps inappropriate juice box and the sake that honestly, was better than it had any right to be coming out of a juice box or a straw. Like I was like very taken aback. I was like, wait a minute. This is actually a legitimate, this is pretty good. yeah. So what's, what's today? Capri Sun?

I wish. No, today is another funky packaging.

Uh huh.

got mini obsessed.

Mini

I found something pretty darn funky. Which I dropped off to you. And today, we're going to explore another round of Funky packaging for sake.

packaging.

I went to the manufacturer's website for this funky packaging and they say right on their webpage that this is the future of sake.

The future of sake.

Yes,

All right. That's a pretty, um, that's a lofty statement, I think. Right.

pretty bold statement, but I am excited to get started.

Hmm. Yeah. This is a sake that I'm pretty sure we have featured before, just never in this packaging, right?

Yes,

yeah, so, so what we've got, what is, what is on my desk right now, what Timothy has given me. is actually not too far off from the Capri Sun joke I made earlier. So, um, you remember last week, we talked a little bit about, we reminisced a little bit about Capri Sun, the, uh, the pouch, what, you had a straw, you stabbed through the straw, and then, and then you, you drink your, your beverage while we were having our juice box.

Yes,

And if it wasn't sitting on my desk, I wouldn't believe it.

yes, this is, called a smart pouch.

Smart pouch.

Yes, it is a pouch. 1500 milliliter pouch of sake, as you said, almost, almost up to a full isho bin size. And it weighs about five pounds. I could do some curls with this.

Yeah, I guess I could.

yeah, to give our listeners An image of what we're looking at here, it is basically a freestanding plastic pouch sealed at the top, and it has a spout coming off of it. Very much like a bag in box wine, right? Like the boxed wine with the spout. We've all seen that. And if you look inside the boxed wine, there's like a plastic bladder in there, right? With a spout coming off of it. Yes,

um, and it looks to me like this, the smart pouch is that, without the box, and uh, with sake instead of wine.

Yeah, so the Type of packaging that this is, I think, inspired by is what is known as B. I. B. Or, yeah, there's a Wikipedia page dedicated to B. I. B., which is bag in box alcohol, bag in box alcohol. And it's similar to the juice box design that we had last week, this is a similar polyethylene material and it's food safe and it has a spout coming out and it has a unique fold on the bottom. So it could kind of stand upright, right? It can like stand on its own.

Which I believe the Capri Sun had that, that, that general shape.

Yes,

You could stand it up. Cause you had to stand it up. Cause you had, you know, he was like, here, we're going to punch the hole in it with the straw. And then it sits on your, on your table next to your lunch. I don't,

true. If this was If this was a Capri Sun, that, the basic shape is similar. You're absolutely right. It had like that fold on the bottom so it could stand up.

It's just a really

really big

significantly large. I don't know how many milliliters were in a Capri Sun, but I'm going to guess it wasn't 1, 500.

Well, we should also let the cat out of the bag about which producer and which sake this is. So, do you want to give us the sake name and the stats?

Absolutely. So, um, this is an old friend of ours, the Kikusui Funaguchi. Uh, this is their Nama Genshu Honjozo. Now, typically this is a sake that is Sold as bought and sold in a can a small like a one cup sized can 180 milliliters And they decided that that is not enough for some people and so they need They need a sack and that's what we have here.

You know, the interesting point there, the thing that connects the can with this pouch is the fact that this is a nama, right? Kikusui says that this sake is the first commercially available nama and it was released in 1972.

Wow. Really?

Yes, that's what they say on their website. So I think that When we talk about funky packaging, we have the classic can, which has been around for decades, and then they've introduced this pouch. So what's the connection with the pouch and the can? And I think the first one is to protect against the light, right?

hmm. Yeah. Because both the pouch and that can are completely opaque.

Absolutely. And the writing on the pouch itself has some key selling points that make it especially suited for unpasteurized sake, according to Kikusui. The first one is that it easily fits in the fridge, and I had mine stored in the fridge very easily. The pouch has three holes. On the top, which can fit your fingers. So you get a grip if you need to lift it. It's really very handy. Don't you think?

I, I do. I do. and this is a sake that I'm going to, mention here that I think like it was like during, during like, you know, lockdown era, we went and did a little barbecue. We, went down by the, down into the park and ran, grilled some things out on the, public grills there. And it went really well with the grilled food with the, you know, with the, the hot dogs and the burgers and all that.

it's so funny. You should say that because I actually found a YouTube video, which we will link in the show notes. And I encourage everyone to visit sakerevolution. com to watch this one minute video. But there is a Japanese advertisement that was released at the time of this product launch of the pouch. And there are four. Japanese ladies in a park, sitting at a small table, eating snacks, and one of them pulls the pouch out of her purse.

Wait, this pouch fit in her

Yes!

That was a hefty, purse, because this, it's still, as you pointed out, it is still 1, 500 milliliters. This is not a small bag.

it's pretty heavy. Anyway, she pulls it out, and she starts dispensing sake, and they happen to have these Cut crystal glasses in the park for their picnic and they're drinking kikusui from the pouch and It is absolutely wonderful So, please Be sure to visit our show notes to see the Japanese smart pouch advertising video. You don't want to miss it. It's delightful. Uh, but I guess the key point is that it blocks the air and it blocks the light from spoiling your nama sake.

Mm

It kind of uses gravity when you pick it up and you dispense using the spout, the gravity pulls against it and it doesn't let any air in. So the pouch gets thinner and thinner as you use it, you know, so there's no air going in. It's a one way spout. So it's a really super clever design.

that's really cool. It's very interestingly, both reasonably sized and enormous.

Hey, Hey JP, I got a question for you. When it comes to wine,

Yes.

are you a glass bottle with a cork only person? Or do you think B. I. B. like bag in box wine can be good? Is that something you buy for yourself? Or do you think that is not an elegant way to serve wine? What do you think?

Um, well, honestly, I haven't done a whole lot of boxed wine in my time. I think I've had it like once or twice. Uh, it was a little earlier on in my. Am I, am I, my drinking career? I don't know if that's the word we're gonna use. Uh, yeah, it was, I didn't know a lot about wine when I had it. I thought it was fine. I have heard that generally speaking, you, you have lower quality wine in the bag and box, but I don't know if there's any truth to it, you know, does that make sense to you?

It does. Yeah, I think people have preconceived notions, but similar to Breweries releasing higher end sakes in one cups, I think that there are some wineries that release high quality wines in the pouch, in the bag, in box. So boxed wine has a little bit of an image problem, just like cup sake does, don't you think?

A little bit. Yeah.

It makes me question, is it just an image problem or is there something wrong with this technology? It seems like it's really good at preserving the contents. Should be. And the other thing that they say on the Kikusui website, the very end of the video, that little one minute video I was talking about, they show the woman folding up the bag and putting it in the recycling and it's thin as a piece of paper.

Is that what you do with this you crack this open

Don't cut across the top, John. That's not how we get into

so I don't you don't want me to go get my straw

No.

Uh, Alright. alright, I'm gonna, alright, so when I'm looking at this, it looks like that spout you were talking about earlier. Uh, it's got a little foil, topper at the bottom, I, I think just to kind of keep it, keep it clean. And then,, is a plastic, uh, like a plastic tab that's kind of built into the, into the plunger.

Yeah, it's like a collar. It's like a collar that goes around to keep the, the, um, lever from moving down. So I'm going to peel that off right now. Okay. I got

Okay. I got mine here. Oh, oh, hey. All right. This this was Ooh, okay. It goes all the way around. This was very easy to take off

And then there's a little, as you said, there's a little foil tab right where the, the sake comes out and that just keeps the mouth of the spout clean. So I peeled that off and

in theory this thing's ready for business, right?

all right. So. are we ready?

I think so now before we before we start though. I need to We need to tell everybody at home that we are we are drinking this in very slightly different styles Is he um, yeah, i've got my stemless wine glass for this. And tim is going to be having this in a tumbler, uh, you know, basically a rocks glass with, with some ice. It is the famous clear Tim Sullivan ice. And, on the back of the pouch, they do say in Japanese that this should be served chilled or on the rocks. So we're going to do both.

Yes. So, I have enjoyed Kikusui Funaguchi in the can for years, and having had it many times, my favorite way to drink it is on the side. a giant clear ice cube and have it be chilled and diluted just a bit. So this is my preferred method of drinking this particular sake. I've never squirted it out of a pouch before, but

I don't think I've ever not had it in the can.

oh, so you drink it out of the

I drink it out of the can.

That's, that's what you should do, I think.

Yeah, yeah I have my cup in hand, the pouch. I've moved the pouch to the edge of my desk. So the spout is hanging over the side and then I'm going to grab my cup. I'm going to put it underneath and I'm going to hit the button. Oh Yeah, Tim. Um, well, um, it flies out of there pretty fast. So it's, it's less of a gentle pour and more of like a fire hydrant sort of experience.

How smart do you have to be to operate the smart couch?

Not, not very, you just have to be prepared for the volume that's going to come out of it. Remember gravity you mentioned is what's powering this and gravity is a powerful beast.

All right.

Yeah. Yeah, we, we generally, when we're doing this, we pour like a relatively small amount into the glass. And this thing was like, and I was like, whoa,

Okay. I'm going to pour mine and try to get it to the microphone. Here we go.

Alrighty. I have a feeling you didn't plunge that one all the way down. Like I did. You learn from my mistakes.

Yeah. I, uh, I was a little slower on the

Yeah. Well, I just went, I thought it was a binary switch. So I, and that sake was like freedom.

You hear that, John?

Yeah. That's the, that's the, is that the, the trademark Tim Sullivan

that is the trademark Tim Sullivan crystal clear ice cube. All right. Well, I smell Funaguchi.

Yes.

Should we give it a taste?

Um, well, you want to talk a little bit about what we smell?

Oh yeah.

So Yeah, it's, this is a sake we've had many times before and it does capture the, the, experience of, taking in the Funaguchi. It's, um, it is very, like, on my, I don't know about on your side, but on my nose, it's, it's very, um, uh, boozy. Like I'm getting a lot of that, like, that little tingle in your, in your nostrils when you bring it in, like, you can tell that it's a high, high alcohol beverage.

Yeah. It's worth noting that this is. As you said earlier, it's 19 percent alcohol, but it's also arutenshu or alcohol added sake. So this is not a Junmai style. This is a Honjozo style. That means distilled alcohol has been added to this. And I think that that little bit of, um, ethanol does come through on the aroma. But that's part of the charm of this sake. boozy strong sake. And that's one of the reasons I have it on the rocks. I also smell a little bit of like a cotton candy smell.

There is a, yeah, there is a bit, definitely a little bit of a sweetness as well. from the distance, like when I bring it like kind of close, it's like, Oh yeah, the first thing I got was that ethanol. And then you get closer and you're like, Oh, and, and some, and some sweetness to it. All right. So I think we're ready to, to have a sip

Okay. I'm going to take a sip. My, my glass is very clanky with the ice cube in it. So I'm just going to go for it.

Go for it. yeah. This is such a fun sake. Oh,

I think primarily it comes across as rich and strong. It's very bold.

yes. Oh, absolutely. Now you've got the ice in there. We've had it in there for a little bit. Have you find that it's kind of taming it a little bit for you?

Not yet.

Not yet. It needs a minute.

Needs a minute. I really like the ice cube in there. It keeps it nice and chilled and crisp, and it also dilutes it a little bit. It is a little clanky in my rocks glass, but I really enjoy it that way.

I do think this is a sake that, in addition to the idea that the ice is going to, to mellow it out a little bit. I'm also of the opinion that having the sake particularly cold or a little bit warm is fun and it,, it lends itself to, to playing with temperature a little bit. Um, I think that it's right now I have it kind of like, you know, we've been recording and sitting on my desk. It's, it's cold, but it is not. Ice cold. And I think that this sake is great when it's ice cold.

Yeah, I agree. I think when a sake that has higher alcohol, when it's, it's like, you know, when you really chill a martini, And it brings out the crispness of it. If a martini gets closer to room temperature, the booze really comes forward. And it's not as enjoyable. I think there's a similar, concept at play here when it's nice and icy cold. It just makes it crisper on the palate. Um, but it is one of the strongest sake's out there. It really does pack a punch, right?

there like a legal limit to the alcoholic of being sake?

There is. Yes. it? is the, the law states in Japan, it has to be. Below 22%, so that means 21.999,

So we've got some some room.

we have some wiggle room. Yes.

They can, they can increase this all they want. That's great. Yeah, this is, this is such a classic and I, uh, as I was saying earlier, like, I love the idea that you're just grabbing one of these going to like a cookout or something. this goes really well with your 4th of July barbecue. Uh, array, I think. I think it goes fabulously with things like that. With your, uh, with your hot dogs, your burgers, your, uh, whatever else you're going to have over there. Mac and cheese. They're fine.

Well, I, I really agree with you a hundred percent. What makes this approachable for that type of food is the weight, the body. And the richness of this sake. It's juicy, it's strong, and if you had something like, you know, a burger dripping with barbecue sauce or something like that, it is amazing. Just so good. It would be so good.

Yeah,

or

you can do some

hot dogs. Hmm.

Yeah, definitely. No, I won't. No, I want ribs, Tim. What have we done?

Do you have a, do you have a grill set up where you live?

No, I live in an apartment.

Yeah. I can't either. I thought maybe sometimes apartment buildings have a shared grill, but we don't, we don't have that in our apartment.

me either. Um, and like some of the units in my building have, um, terraces, but there are strict, no grilling on the terraces rules. I think they're worried about burning down the building or something like

that's prudent.

You know, what are you going to do? but I do have a park nearby that does have, um, public grills. So all you have to do is bring, uh, technically you're just bringing like your briquettes and whatnot.

Well, I'll just wait for my invitation.

Well, I haven't done this in several years, but maybe we need to bring it back Now that the Funaguchi pouch exists

exactly, if you, if you provide the burgers and the hot dogs, I'll bring the pouch.

Uh huh, I think I think you might have already purchased the pouch wait a minute

Now, John, what do you think about the size of this pouch? It is In addition to the pouch itself being funky, the size is also funky. Like what is up with 1500 milliliters? What do you, what do you think?

Um To me, when I look at this thing, it looks like they wanted to get like a sizable amount of sake because 1500 milliliters ain't messing around. Um, And they wanted something that would be relatively portable. The video showed this woman pulling it out of her purse. So it's got to be target, target size, smaller than a purse, right? Or a smaller than that woman's purse, at least. And that's just, you know, I think that works. I think that, uh, I think that's what they were aiming for.

Yeah, I mean, the standard bottle size in Japan is 720 ml. And if you had two bottles, that would be 1440, but they're giving us 1500. So it's a little bit strange that it's, it's, Just above what two bottles would be. And the isshobin, the 1. 8 liter is 2. 5 bottles. So yeah, it's, it probably has to do with the packaging manufacturer. Don't you think? Like there's probably set sizes for these things.

I think that, yeah, they probably did get, you know, your, I don't think they had these custom made. I think that somebody probably was producing something like this and they were like, Hey, I want to get in on that.

Yeah,

size you got?

And I just noticed that there is a giant picture of the can on the pouch.

Yes. It's not just, it's not just the logo. They're like, no, it's this, it is this, this can that you know,

Yeah, well, I have to say, I really like this. Like the, the um, the juice box with the straw was not the best way for me to drink sake out of a little, a little kindergarten straw like that. But this, like lift up the pouch and push the button. It's pretty nice.

It's a party and a bag.

Yeah.

I gotcha. going to say it. Um, yeah, this is great. And I, like I said, this is perfect to like go And, and again, this food, this rather, and again, this sake specifically, is, is, great for, you know, your, your 4th of July barbecue.

Yeah. It's very. entertaining and shareable sake, don't you think? It's like not the fanciest or most nuanced sake on the market, but it's still really enjoyable and great for sharing.

I don't think I've encountered people who, um, who didn't enjoy Funaguchi the first time they had it. And if I did, I wouldn't trust those people.

The only thing I have to say is that I always warn people that it packs a punch. So if people are Sipping on this like regular sake and not using ice or, you know, not diluting it with anything. I always say, you know, just be aware this packs a punch. I like how it sits on the counter like a Capri Sun pouch. Like you can stand it up and, you know, It's really, that's super convenient. And if you drop it, you don't have to worry about it smashing on the floor. Like, I love that too.

And if I'm not mistaken, like, you know, this bag, I'm, I'm not going to pretend to know exactly what this bag weighs, but I'm going to bet you that it weighs less than glass. So the weight of this bag, which again, we mentioned this at the front, isn't, This is not light. Um, it is

Yeah.

all sake.

Yeah,

And you know and some and some plastic that is it, you know It is really your the weight is all the importance of so when it's empty when it's done You can just fold it up and if you're in Japan, apparently you can put it in recycling

And as you, as you pour from the pouch, from the spout, uh, it's a one way valve, as we mentioned, so that no air goes in, the pouch collapses thinner and thinner as you use it, and I really like that too. It does protect against oxygen, and uh, And I like just giving, like, if you want a little top off, you can just squeeze the tab and there you go. Love it.

Need a little extra here we go And you know and and also you can just like throw this whole bag onto some ice in the in the cooler And boom, you know, every time you can pull it out, pour some out, Not bad, right?

All right. John, we've, we've explored another dimension of funky packaging. What do you, I like this new series. What do you think?

I like this in series too. I, I'm wondering how long you're gonna be able to keep this up, Tim. no, it's, it's been, it, it is fun. I had a good time with the, the, the juice box. Uh, but this is a very enormously practical

Right.

an improvement. I don't know. I love it. This is great. Mm-Hmm. Mm-Hmm.

love it too. And I think, uh, if, if other Even more premium sakes came in this packaging. Like I would definitely be interested, like as a consumer, I would vote for this. I think this is convenient, easy to use, protects the sake, It's, it's just, there's a lot of practical advantages to this, I think.

There, there are, there are. Um, you know, I would love to see more, um, to see more stuff like this go on.

Yeah. So we'll. We'll see in the next few years if this is the future of sake as Kikusui thinks it will be. But I do hope to see it with a few other, with a few other brands. Let's see how it goes.

Yeah, that'd be a lot of fun. I'm excited.

All right. Well, John, so great to taste with you and we'll have to see where our funky packaging takes us next. Um, thank you so for, uh, all the great, uh, sake chit chat today. And I also want to send out a special thank you to all of our listeners. Thanks again for tuning in today. A special hi, hello, and thank you to our patrons as well. We are a listener supported show. And if you would like to join our community on Patreon, please visit patreon.com/sakerevolution to learn more.

And as a quick little reminder, all of our episodes have a corresponding page on the Sake Revolution website at sakerevolution. com. We've got show notes. This one's got a video of apparently a bunch of ladies having a really good time in a park and then recycling very responsibly. We always have pictures of the bottles. We always have details on the sake we drank. Uh, and we always have a transcript, which is actually pretty cool.

Kanpai!