¶ Show Opening
Hello everybody and welcome to Sake Revolution . This is America's first Sake podcast and I am your host and I'm delighted to be here with you . My name is John Puma . I am from the Sake Notes . I'm also the administrator over at the Internet Sake Discord and also I am the guy who runs the r slash Sake community over at Reddit .
And I'm your host , timothy Sullivan . I'm a Sake Samurai , i'm a Sake educator , as well as the founder of the Urban Sake website , and every week , john and I will be here tasting and chatting about all things Sake and doing our best to make it fun and easy to understand .
Tim . Welcome back to another show . I gotta say pulling back the curtain . I've been on vacation .
Have you really ? I have , i've been on vacation .
I've been away for a little bit . We haven't recorded an episode in a little while . I got back into it . We got my recording sea legs back , I think . Is that the right word ? That's probably not the right word . But yeah it's nice to be back here , nice to see your smile and face .
John , you look really refreshed from your vacation . Do you feel well rested and rejuvenated ?
I am very well rested and rejuvenated . We went off to the West Coast for a little bit , stopped in San Francisco and Seattle . We visited the good people over at True Sake .
We also checked out a nice little bottle shop , slash tasting bar called Millet over in San Francisco , and then when we went up to Seattle , of course visited Sake Nomi , which is another bottle shop , that's also a tasting place , and also Hanyato , another really nice , another sake bar with bottles to go kind of thing going on with them All these places were great
and I would thoroughly recommend anyone in the Sake Revolution solar system that happens to be in the vicinity . Check these places out if you haven't already . They're a lot of fun .
Well , it's completely unfair that you get to do all this traveling . You've been to Japan , you've been to the West Coast . I'm just sitting here at my desk . Not fair , But I do have to say you look well rested and you could be like five years younger than when you left .
I wish I really do . I think that's just . I think it's just windburn from being in San Francisco .
So you're applying that sunscreen right . That's the most important thing . They say sunscreen right .
I'm not an eager sunscreen supplier .
Well , I'm approaching 50 years of age . I'm approaching 50 from the wrong side .
Approaching 50 .
I'm approaching 50 . from the other side , you're departing 50 .
And .
I have to admit that I've started a skincare routine .
Really Yes Okay .
After I crossed the 5.0 threshold I started doing a nightly skincare routine .
So what you're telling me is that after 50 , the bar soap wasn't cutting it anymore , that's right , Oh no .
Dial hand soap doesn't work anymore .
Oh , my goodness
¶ Introduction to Sake Cosmetics
.
But it does . I honestly don't know if it's just it makes your skin feel better , So you feel better , or if it really does anything , but I feel like it helps a lot . And the one interesting thing is that there is a crossover between sake and cosmetics . Have you explored this at all ?
Not really , but I was wondering when you were going to find a way to tie this into sake .
Thank you , We always tie it into sake . Yes , we do .
And I trust you to do that each and every episode . But do I have personal experience with that kind of thing ? I don't think so . I've seen the products on the shelves . I've seen the social media finds me and tells me that there's probably like sake , kasu , bath bombs I should be using or something like that , but I have never actually done it .
So you've heard about this world of sake cosmetics before .
It's definitely something that's come up .
Okay , well , when I was your age , i was in the same boat , honestly , but after I passed 50 , i started looking into lotions and potions and all that stuff .
Lotions and potions . We have an episode title now .
It does help you feel better about your skin And when you touch your own face it does feel softer . So I'm a convert , honestly .
So I wanted to talk to you about cosmetics and about sake cosmetics and this whole idea of using sake as a beauty regimen , and there's a couple stories that are so pervasive If you read any marketing related to the use of sake or sake products as cosmetics . There's two stories you're going to hear . Let me know if you've heard either of these .
Okay , i'm tall tales . I'm crossing my fingers , i'm ready , okay .
So the first one is the general story of geisha in Kyoto using sake as a toner or as a bath oil or dousing themselves in sake as a beauty regimen . Have you ever heard of that before ? Like just liquid sake Yes .
Liquid sake and just kind of put it on your hands . Yes , splashing . No , i've never heard that one . Okay , well , that's one that's splashing it all Like .
it's often quoted in marketing . And the other one is that Toji or master brewers , who have their hands in Koji all the time , have like 80 year old , grizzled faces , but their hands look like a 30 year old because the enzymatic action of the Koji keeps their skin young . It's always in mixing in the Koji . Have you ever heard that one ?
I have heard that from viewers before .
I'm like look my hands , yes .
Yes , I've definitely heard that before .
Yeah , well , those are the two kind of main stories that you hear when it comes to the use of sake or sake ingredients to make yourself more beautiful , and I don't know if they're really true , but it is the basis for a lot of the sales that happen with sake cosmetics , and I wanted to break down the three areas that people use sake in beauty products .
Now , the first one is what we were describing with the , the gaseous we're doing .
You take , right , liquid sake , just the regular sake , and you use that in some way , and the way that that's most often used is just , you put sake into your bath water And you take a bath in water and sake , or you splash your face with sake and use it as like a toner . So , those are some ways that people use just sake on its own .
Does that sound appealing to you to put sake in your bath ?
I think I saw an item on social media not that long ago Might have been a Sora news item about an onsen that was advertising that they would , that they have a bath , that they also put sake in . Yes , and I was like that's either they're not putting a lot of sake in it or that's a very expensive bath .
They don't put that much for like a regular bathtub like you have in your house , right , you can put anywhere from one to four one cups of sake , so anywhere from a quarter bottle to a full standard bottle of sake into your bath And it's supposed to soften your skin .
I have never tried it myself , but if you have leftover sake that you don't want to drink , it isn't really a wonderful thing to try , and I know many people who do it in Japan .
Okay , all right . Yeah , i do appreciate a good bath every now and again . Okay Yeah .
Well , put that on the bucket list , all right .
I've got plenty of sake , so I can easily segue into that .
Absolutely . And there's another ingredient , sake adjacent ingredient , that is used for cosmetics and beautification a lot , and that is sake kasu . Now , john , what is sake kasu ? Please remind our listeners .
Sake kasu is what is left after you're done making your sake . So you've got your marome and then you put it into a press and you squeeze out the sake And then what is left is that kind of what's , what would you call the texture of kasu .
I guess it also depends on how it's being , how much you know how you're pressing , because I've seen kasu that was very squishy and wet almost , and then I've seen kasu that was almost like a really thin waffle , like a really like a cracker almost . So I've definitely seen it a couple of different ways .
I think that if you're doing it for something like cosmetics , you want the more wet .
Well , you mentioned the word marome .
Marome is the main mash , so that's the fermentation mash with the rice and the koji rice and the water and it's all bubbling away And then , like you said , when you're ready to press it , you want to get the sake , the alcohol out , you need to squeeze it and put it in some kind of press And the unfermented rice solids that are left over , that's the sake
kasu And it's filled with all of the enzymes and the amino acids and a little bit of alcohol . And people in Japan swear by sake kasu as a beauty product And it is actually used .
There's a very easy home recipe to make a face mask out of the sake kasu , which is like the leftover pressings , and you can take like one tablespoon of sake kasu and two tablespoons of water that's been soaked in rice , like the water that you use for when you're washing rice , like water that's been soaked in rice .
Or you can use two tablespoons of sake and you can dilute the sake kasu with sake as well . So either like rice water or with sake And then you literally just spread it on your face and let it sit for half an hour and then wash it off And the enzymes in the , koji are supposed to soften and brighten your skin .
Nice Now . I imagine for most people the challenge is getting your hands on sake kasu in the states Right , right , right , i mean . I'm not going to lie . For you and me , that is less of a challenge than for a lot of other people in the country , because I think that we know a few brewers we can ask .
You know a guy , you know a guy , i know a guy , i have actually have kasu from a guy in my freezer right now , Because my shell has used it to make desserts before .
Oh cool .
That's excellent . Well , if you don't know a guy who has sake kasu locally , a lot of Asian supermarkets sell sake kasu And it's something you can find in Asian supermarkets not as widely available , but in major metropolitan areas you tend to be able to find it . I also found it on Amazon .
So if you wanna order a packet of sakekasu to try a face mask at home , you can do that as well , and it's available on Amazon , so it's within everybody's reach here in the US . But that's something that a lot of people swear by .
You know , john , you mentioned you weren't too much into sake , cosmetics and all that stuff , so I left a little something for you there on your desk And I thought we might have a little like live experiment here on the podcast . And can you open the bag ? there and see what I left you on your desk .
Uh-huh all right , This is pure smile which sounds like a dental product .
I'm not gonna lie , it's not . Is this not teeth whitener ?
No , No , it is a Japanese sake essence mask . Yes , pure smile essence mask series , and this is very Japanese , like the only thing that's in English on this was that one is what I read , i think . Oh , it also has some vitamin E and collagen and some other ingredients that are in English , but for the most part , this is some Japanese stuff .
Yes , You and I are live on air right now . You and I are gonna do a Japanese sake face mask together . How do you ?
feel about that . I think we should have done the tasting first , yeah .
All right , so the face mask , i've never done a face mask before .
Really , i'm not gonna lie to you . Oh , my gosh , oh , you're gonna love it .
So the packet is like a rectangle , very slim , and it feels a little squishy right . So what you're gonna do is you're gonna rip open the top of the packet .
Uh-huh , we're doing this now .
We're doing this now . We're doing this now , okay .
All right , i ripped open the packet . Sometimes you gotta rip the bandaid off or , in this case , rip the packet open .
And then you wanna have your .
Oh , it's really it is wet in here . It's wet , It's wet oh goodness , So I have a beard . is this gonna interfere ?
You're just gonna go right over the beard .
Should I just like put it more on my head , since I don't have hair ? Well , this mask is the shape of a face , so it has a cutout . Oh , all right , so my head's not gonna work too well . I won't be able to see .
So gently unfold it .
Okay .
You're gonna want a little paper towel nearby . This is going to go over your eyes and nose and there's little cutouts for all your facial features Okay , Okay . I got it . This face is terrifying .
All right , it is terrifying .
Okay , I've got mine .
This is great for an audio medium by the way It's going on . I'm putting this thing over my . Oh , it's so cold .
It's cold and wet and sad Oh man . You wanna spread it out .
Uh-huh .
Okay , so , john , we have to post .
So , tim , it occurs to me that it might be difficult for us to taste sake with just the cup . Okay , oh , geez .
So this contains Japanese sake and it contains some moisturizers and vitamin E .
Yes .
We're supposed to let this Hang out on our face for about 10 minutes 10 minutes . Yes , i'll say so while the sake mask is doing its magic , we have a few minutes to kill .
So I wanted to talk about one other Ingredient in sake that if you look at any other sake cosmetics not what we have on our face right now but if you look at like moisturizers or serums or anything that is sold commercially that says it's a sake product for beauty .
There's one thing that they often talk about and that's Kojik acid , and you've heard of Koji , of course .
Yeah , i was immediately gonna ask you , is that a connection to Koji ?
But I'm glad you beat me to it , Yes so Kojik acid is a type of acidity that's produced during the sake fermentation and it's something that inhibits the Formation of melanin in the skin , so it's used as what they call a brightener , or you know .
it helps brighten skin and It also has a lot of antioxidants in it , so it helps fight dark spots , discoloration and And all right provide some antioxidant protection .
Would it be a bad time to tell you that I kind of need my melanin because I have low vitamin D .
Well , check back with me in 15 years and we'll talk about your dark spots noted . Yeah , so I have to say that I don't use a Koji product Koji acid product myself , mm-hmm . But there are a number of sake breweries that you will have heard of Kikumasa , mune , hakai san , fukumitsuya .
A number of breweries Make a sake cosmetic product in Japan as part of their lineup and they sell it in their gift shop .
So it is not uncommon for a sake brewery usually the ones that are a little larger in scale to make a cosmetics face masks , serums , moisturizers and I have some of those and I especially like the sake moisturizers because they soften your skin , they smell like sake and I Really like them . So I do use some of those .
I don't know if this necessarily smells like sake .
Let's see only if I can smell . What you have on your face right now .
Oh , yes , right , Okay , yes so .
The experience of having the face mask on is it's cold and slimy , right .
Oh , oh , yes , 110% .
Did you feel your skin tingling ? a little bit or um , honestly , my face feels a little weird and if it does feel like you're wearing a pancake on your face with syrup on it a little bit . Uh , it's like someone someone hit you in the face with a pancake and it kind of stuck to your face . That's what it feels like for me .
I've never had . That experience Is normally we drink the sake . Today we're putting it on our faces .
Yes , So I'm gonna need a drink after we're done with this .
Oh I think certain life , we I probably think we maybe we should have drink beforehand , and I definitely think that'll be difficult for me to just Take in the aroma of a sake when this thing's covering half my nose . Okay .
Well , I think maybe are we . Are we ready to remove and take in the The benefits of our sake mask ?
Sure , and if we're not , I can snap my fingers . And now we are .
All right , so it's been our 10 minutes .
Yes .
And we're going to peel off our sake mask . Oh , it's a weird feeling , tim . It feels weird , it's a weird .
This is a strange thing .
Now your skin is going to feel moistened And I'm just going to rub it in a little bit .
I'm going to show you like , pat my face down a little bit .
You can pat it down . I'm just rubbing it in like a moisturizer . Rub it in like a moisturizer or a sunscreen . Pretend my shell is giving you sunscreen .
I should have . Maybe we should have called my shell in for this Too late .
I feel . I feel refreshed and my , my skin does feel softer . So touch your skin . It should feel softer and bouncy No .
Well , so the nice thing about this is it only went up a part . You know , it was only on my forehead . so I can kind of easily , Can you tell the difference ? I can easily tell the difference from part of my head .
So your upper forehead .
The part of my bald head where it was , where the mask was , versus the part of my bald head where the mask was not . And yeah , it's definitely . It's got more . It is definitely moisture . Yes , so you're a lot of . Yeah , so your upper forehead is .
My upper forehead is dry . My upper forehead is moist .
Yes , And it is .
Yeah .
It's , it's soft , it's very soft . Actually , my skin is is quite soft .
Right , so that's kind of the whole point .
I I was skeptical audibly through this entire process And I will say that that I do feel my skin is very , very soft right now . The parts that had it on it are very soft . Not are the same old bar soap skin .
Well , i'm , i'll take that . I'll take that You it was . I wasn't sure we were going to get through the whole 10 minutes , but we did it .
We did it , we did , we did , we did . Now I don't know about you , tim , but I can use it .
You need a sake too . Now , john . I picked a sake that we've had on the show before that . I thought would be thematically appropriate for a , an episode where I shanghide you into trying sake cosmetics .
Yes ,
¶ Sake Tasting: Toyo Bijin Junmai Ginjo Karakuchi
yes .
Of the sake we're going to taste today is a sake we featured back in episode 87 . That was our 2000 and 21 year recap episode And I brought the Toyo Bijin Junma Ginjo Karakuchi , which is known in English as Asian beauty , so I thought that would be inappropriate for our cosmetics episode .
I think , is that a pun ? Did we just experience a pun in our sake ? tasting option No . Now I will say that during that episode you tasted this I have never tasted this on the air .
You did not . That's right .
Yeah , we had a different sake that time , which we did a little bit of a potluck . But this is a great sake that I am a big fan of . I just haven't had it in a really long time .
Yeah , well , let's get it into the glass and get our ASMR sake .
While we pour , i'll talk a little bit about it and let everybody at home know what we're drinking . This is the Toyo Bijin Junma Ginjo Karakuchi . Tim mentioned the term we like to use for this , one in the West is Asian beauty . It is from Yamaguchi another fine sake product from Yamaguchi Tim . do you know ? do they make any beauty products at this brewery ?
I don't think they do , but that would not stop me from trying a little Toyo Bijin , one cup in my bath . I would do that All right , let's hear the stats All right .
So again , the brewery here is Sumikawa Shuzojo , easy for me to say . The rice type on display here is Yamaranishiki and it has been milled down to 55% of its original size . They're looking to make good on that karakuchi name . So this is plus 15 on that sake meter value , the measure of dryness to sweetness .
That's pretty dry And , as we've talked about in the past , karakuchi is what they call dry sake , usually very dry sake , if they're going to put that on there , and the acidity is 1.5 , alcohol percentage of 16 and a half And , once again , the brand here is Toyo Bijin . So here we are And we got it in the glass .
Yes , we got it in the glass . Our faces are softened and moisturized . I might splash a little behind each year , all right , so let's give it a smell . So my comments back in 2021 were apple peel and pear . On the aroma , it's definitely I smell an apple-y smell , like a little bit of a pear .
I got a faint apple-y smell . Pear is actually dead on I think . And you know how you can sometimes , especially when you've been around sake . But you can like smell when something's going to be dry And it has that It doesn't smell like it's going to be a plus 15 dry . So I'm very curious he has going to turn out . This is , you know , 1.5 .
That's relatively low acidity . Yeah , not too low , but relatively low acidity . So maybe things will bounce out a little bit .
I'm going to give it a taste . Hmm , it does taste dry . Oh wow , it's drier than I remember it from 2021 .
It is a lot drier than I remember it And I couldn't tell you I think . I think the last time I had this was like pre-pandemic .
Yeah , i mean , i always remember liking it And I still do It is , but it is drier than I remember And I think that in the past when I've had it , maybe the fruit counter acted the dryness a little bit , and here the fruit is coming across a little bit more subdued to me . What do you think ?
Yeah , I agree . I think the dryness is a little bit more pronounced than I remember it being .
Mm-hmm .
And it does linger . There's a little bit of a dry , lingering finish . You know it kind of stays with you .
That's interesting because usually when we talk about dry , we talk about crisp . Crisp and dry and it's a finish and it's a quick and it's done . This is lingering and hanging around to remind you that it was dry And it's nice . It's a nice sake to sip on .
I think that I think it's a nice sake to sip on with some food , though as often as the case with dry , sake is , and I think that this is so aggressively dry , so lingeringly dry that you could probably go a little harder with the food . As far as your richer stuff , what do you think ?
Yeah , i think I would call this a cho karakuchi , or super dry sake .
Yeah .
Like it's in the zone for sure . There's nothing wrong with calling this a super dry . It's got that really dry finish . And what you said before is absolutely true . If they go to the trouble to mention karakuchi in the name , then Then they're going for it , it's going to be pretty dry . Yeah , for sure .
Mm-hmm . Yeah , I think , when I have this , like the first thing I popped out of my head was like like richer Asian foods , Like honestly I don't want to sound too basic , but Too late I would like to have this with Chinese takeout .
Yeah , that's awesome . I was , you know , when you said that I was thinking like Thai food .
Oh , that sounds great too . Yeah , that sounds really really fantastic . Yeah , yeah , some pad thai or some , like you know just nothing . I don't think you need to go traveling with this . This is really good And I think it's going to cut through the greasier stuff .
I think that this sake would be a champion with your more fatty foods and your more you know big , flavorful foods . Now I want some Thai . Damn it , tim . What's your go-to Thai dish ?
Oh , I'm beyond basic . I'm like shrimp pad thai is my go-to Okay . All right , You know what we should have done is we should have talked about cosmetics , had the sake , ordered Thai food and then put the mask on .
Oh , next time , next time .
Just a couple of bros hanging out takeout and the sake facial mask .
There you go , that's funny .
I have to ask you , john , i have to ask you So were you traumatized by my surprise , or is there a chance you may do sake cosmetics in the future ?
I'm not going to lie . I kind of like , and how soft my skin is , right , right , it feels nice .
My skin feels really soft too , so it's like an intensive 10-minute treatment you can do when you need a little boost .
Hmm .
Yeah , I can see that .
And , as you pointed out , you know we're not getting any younger Right , so maybe a good idea to start looking at these things . I wonder if I start doing this before I'm 50 . Hmm , you got ahead of the game Yes , i've got a couple of years to go .
Well , they say , the sooner you start , especially with sunscreen . that's really important to start with sunscreen , But it looks like it sounds like my shell's got you covered in that .
She does . When we went to Hawaii a few years ago , she brought the sunscreen and all of her sunscreen is like SPF 100 plus Uh-huh .
Yep , that's my zone too .
And so she would spray it on me every time we went out . And when I got back . I think I visited my family not too long afterwards and my mother was like I thought you went to Hawaii .
You're pale . You're more pale than when you left .
Exactly .
Well , i have to say I'm a convert for sake cosmetics . On my next trip to Japan I'll fill some of my suitcase with some sake moisturizers for us , and maybe Christmas or your birthday you might get a little something from Japan .
Nice . Well , we'll be careful Don't use a valuable sake space in your case , but I do appreciate that . I think that'll be fun .
All right . Well , this was a load of fun . Thanks for being a good sport about the pancake to the face . I appreciate that It was something .
This is all about embracing new experiences . Yes , and I was no complaint so far , if I have a rash . tomorrow I'm going to talk to you . I'll send you an angry photo in the morning .
Well , I hope you don't have hives tomorrow , but I'll keep my fingers crossed .
Not as much , as I hope I don't have hives tomorrow .
¶ Show Closing
All right . Well , john , great to taste with you . This fabulous Toyo Bijin sake is going to be a great chaser for our beauty treatment we had today . I want to thank all of our listeners for tuning in . We hope you enjoyed the show today , and a special hello and thank you to all of our patrons . We really appreciate your support so much .
If you'd like to support the show , you can visit patreoncom slash sake revolution to learn more .
And while you're at it , go and visit our website . We've got nice things there , like the show notes , and we've got us a shop where we sell swag . We're not selling any sake , revolution brand in sake cosmetics , just yet . But I think maybe Tim can bring some back from Japan , or white label . It'll be great . It'll be our little secret .
But anyway , yes , do visit And , while you're there , again check out the show notes . Check out , because there's got to be a photo of us with these masks on . You're going to get a kick out of that , i'm sure . And there's also a contact form over there and you can use that to send us emails .
And you can send us your personal recommendations for sake cosmetic products And maybe we'll try them on the show . Who knows , who knows , We have a follow up episode . So , on that note , tim , raise a mask , i mean , raise a glass . Remember to keep drinking sake and come by Bye .
Well , you survived .