Why Carbon Nanotubes Are Nearly Impossible to Make - Safety Third 148

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[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, we forgot we forgot the gas you know, I don't have podcasts have guests so much work. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, wrangling people you got a text people. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, agree. [SPEAKER_02]: They have to drive over. [SPEAKER_02]: Right over. [SPEAKER_02]: We have meaningful conversations. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and that's the hardest part. [SPEAKER_02]: I got a phone call. [SPEAKER_02]: I got a phone call. [SPEAKER_02]: I got a phone call.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's [SPEAKER_01]: 4, 2, 4, 3, 5, 4, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6 [SPEAKER_04]: That's a lot. [SPEAKER_01]: That's one in, you know, 10,000, 900, 999, you could do it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I believe in you. [SPEAKER_02]: Are we allowed to talk about solar more, or do we talk about solar too much? [SPEAKER_02]: I've been totally solar piled this past year. [SPEAKER_01]: Wait, Nigel and I were talking before the podcast started about something that he's doing. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, Kevin's in trouble. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a different phone number. [SPEAKER_04]: It's gonna be fun. [SPEAKER_01]: No, it's not. [SPEAKER_04]: I know, it's, it's my manager.

[SPEAKER_01]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

[SPEAKER_01]: I was all right, Carly told me that I had to get it done basically by right day and or like or Thursday and I couldn't do it I told I like so I and then she is like oh do you have that edit so I assumed that the date was up and now she's telling me that I have more time so I was just kind of confused on that but we can talk about that more later. [SPEAKER_04]: Okay. [SPEAKER_04]: Okay. [SPEAKER_04]: Sure. [SPEAKER_04]: I'll call you later today or tomorrow.

[SPEAKER_04]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Bye. [SPEAKER_02]: That's the most polite way. [SPEAKER_02]: I've ever heard someone heard someone tell a Kevin to pick him to cut him up. [SPEAKER_02]: I wasn't. [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't hear stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Wait. [SPEAKER_00]: What did he say? [SPEAKER_02]: They said, let's come up with a way to regularly talk to each other. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you know what's funny? [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: This isn't even.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is my my manager's manager. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, because I've been ignoring her. [SPEAKER_01]: It's just really annoying. [SPEAKER_01]: Kevin. [SPEAKER_01]: No, there's a reason. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't I don't want to throw anybody under the bus because I definitely played a part in this too. [SPEAKER_01]: But it kind of snuck up on me in the way that I heard that it was do at the end of the month.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then they said, oh, it's actually do, um, you know, like in two weeks. [SPEAKER_01]: And that was two weeks ago. [SPEAKER_01]: And it was busy. [SPEAKER_01]: We had the hackathon. [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm like, I'm literally only going to have a week to work on this. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's been raining all week this week. [SPEAKER_01]: And she told me, you know, it was do, I think on Thursday, let like four days ago. [SPEAKER_01]: And I just couldn't get it done.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and I just thought it was done, but she was doing that thing where she was saying, oh, it's She's telling me it's done because she knows I was gonna be late. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you didn't know you're playing chicken with the dead That's yeah, it was a real dead. [SPEAKER_01]: I did exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: So she told me that it had to be due on the state But it doesn't actually I think have to be due until the end of the month.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I talked to somebody who's to work as Like a marketing person for one of the big companies that was like advertising on on YouTube with with creators and [SPEAKER_02]: uh, it told me they don't work there anymore, so it didn't give us shit. [SPEAKER_02]: They're like, you and Michael were like, like literally the worst meeting deadlines of anyone we've ever worked with ever. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's, it'd be like that. [SPEAKER_01]: It really do.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, uh, I think that no matter what you say right now, I know that you're just bad and it's all your fault. [SPEAKER_01]: I, it's true. [SPEAKER_01]: I, I would say it's, it's 60% my fault. [SPEAKER_02]: No, it's like 90% your fault. [SPEAKER_02]: maybe more. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but they should be honest with me instead of like, well, they can't because there are some you still miss it, so they're thinking, well, if we lie to him, and we tell him it's doing so.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, it was a back, they told me it was do at the end of the month, and then they told me it's do like the first week of the month. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: That is what, and then I'm like, wait, what do you mean like, I don't have a week to do this now, but they were just really trying to put the pressure on me. [SPEAKER_01]: So, you guys may or may not see a Columbia short for me future.

[SPEAKER_02]: Kevin's like the number one S tier Columbia advertiser. [SPEAKER_01]: I just, I don't want to do it. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to think about it anymore. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Because then, then you would say, like, oh, I, sorry. [SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't do it today. [SPEAKER_01]: I need another day of filming. [SPEAKER_01]: I like your comments and then she's like, okay, I'll give you one more day, and I'm like, it's raining again.

[SPEAKER_01]: Do anything. [SPEAKER_01]: I actually haven't felt anything yet. [SPEAKER_01]: I need like three more days of filming, but I can't say that because I've already dug myself in this hole. [SPEAKER_00]: Ah, but Kevin, you're aren't you recording yourself right now admitting they're all lies. [SPEAKER_02]: Don't worry, this comes out in our lives and they'll never listen to this. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's all entertainment. [SPEAKER_00]: Everything you're doing here is entertaining.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, this is real. [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, all probably isn't even going in the podcast, right? [SPEAKER_02]: I love, uh, I love brand deals on YouTube. [SPEAKER_01]: Wait, but I was talking to Nigel because before we started the podcast, he said something about making carbon nanotubes and white so hard because you can have the exact same setup and you get different results. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's just, it's like a mystery.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is a specific point out by the way, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for both spaces. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, how do you know? [SPEAKER_01]: I've heard it is got to be, right? [SPEAKER_02]: If it's this useful has to cause cancer. [SPEAKER_02]: That's how it works. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so you have to settle something that's not as good and doesn't give you cancer. [SPEAKER_01]: How do you make carbon all the times? [SPEAKER_02]: What is a carbon nanotube?

[SPEAKER_00]: It is a nanotube of carbon. [SPEAKER_00]: That's it. [SPEAKER_02]: So is it like literally a, like a scroll, why, why is the carbon? [SPEAKER_00]: What I will tell you, what I'll tell you is this. [SPEAKER_00]: What's the expectation? [SPEAKER_00]: Really? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't, I also want to say one thing. [SPEAKER_00]: I think what's really amazing is that I can spend the lot of time trying to make carbon nanotubes.

[SPEAKER_00]: But still not really know what they are, and it doesn't really matter. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a true made out of carbon, guys. [SPEAKER_00]: But what is it? [SPEAKER_01]: How many carbon is it like, is it like a weird, how wide should carbon? [SPEAKER_01]: How thick is the wall, how wide is it, how long is it? [SPEAKER_01]: Why are the carbon stuck together? [SPEAKER_01]: Why do they make a tube shape?

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm saying, I'm saying, the funny thing is that I can, I can be actively trying to troubleshoot and to, to get it going, but I don't really need to even know truly what I'm doing. [SPEAKER_02]: Are we? [SPEAKER_02]: Are we an eye-fucking love science podcast Facebook group? [SPEAKER_02]: Are we a real science podcast or are we somewhere right in the middle? [SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm trying to bring my lines to you.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was just trying to make a point that I think it's funny. [SPEAKER_00]: I just think it's funny that you ask me to explain a detail about carbon nanotubes and I could be like, oh, I've been trying to work with them for a while and it's like, I haven't really dug that deep into what they truly are. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just trying to make them.

[SPEAKER_02]: Our carbon nanotubes, the nanotubes that are going to let us make space elevators is not what they are, is that what it is, so are they are they are they strong, are they light are they both because that's that's it they're light and strong with strong the whole idea. [SPEAKER_00]: A lot stronger than equivalent of the equivalent I guess mass of steel.

[SPEAKER_02]: But like, what, what do you, okay, so how do you, can maybe, maybe none of this, this is like asking more space ends, it doesn't fucking matter, even if you know, if you, okay, what do you do? [SPEAKER_02]: You take, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's just carbon. [SPEAKER_00]: So like at the end of the day, I think like the fundamentals of growing it is relatively, like they're relatively simple. [SPEAKER_00]: They're not, so it, there's just different forms of carbon.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's, it's carbon grown in a very, [SPEAKER_00]: I guess like when you have certain conditions, they will arrange themselves into like a circular pattern and grow tall, so the form like these tubes that are made out of carbon. [SPEAKER_02]: So is it a structure? [SPEAKER_02]: It's like a structure. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, like a crystal in the same way up.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, why would it form, is it like, you know, like the magnet toys that kids play with the ones that are in plastic so it's harder to eat them and get to test it with pens. [SPEAKER_00]: Classified as Bristol. [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_02]: But like the carbon what like, man, it's like, you know how chemistry end in like physics begin or it did solve this event diagrams of circle. [SPEAKER_01]: You know how carbon looks like in graphene.

[SPEAKER_01]: It looks like a chain length fence like a hexagonal fence. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like that. [SPEAKER_00]: Why don't wrap it around. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Is it graphene? [SPEAKER_02]: That's like looped it on itself. [SPEAKER_00]: Kind of. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I get it is. [SPEAKER_01]: if and then how do you make that I don't know anymore than S either.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so it just ends up being that like it's all the just the different forms of carbon and I guess it's like, like I said, you just set up conditions to grow that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So like, for example, with the carbon nanotubes, the most basic way that they're grown is by carbon vapor deposition, so it's like one of the standard methods is you get like some sort of substrate could be like stainless steel, some people do aluminum, other people do silicon, you put a buffer layer, so it blocks the metal and then they coat it with a thin layer of a catalyst, I think it's usually iron or nickel.

[SPEAKER_00]: And like nanometers thick like very very very thin and then when you heat it up The metal will I guess like kind of melt and form droplets on the surface. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, beat up, but they're all spread out yet they beat up. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Like on the surface like on a windshield little little drop. [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so it's kind of like if you think about like a forest if you chop down all the trees.

[SPEAKER_00]: All the beads would be kind of real like don't freeze some. [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry. [SPEAKER_00]: So what you then do is you pass in a hot tube, you pass a settling or ethylene, and I think you can use some other stuff, an unstable carbon source, but in a lack of in an oxygen-free atmosphere, and when it hits high temperatures, it breaks apart into just three radicals.

[SPEAKER_00]: It gets like a [SPEAKER_00]: and but as it as it keeps dissolving from the gas phase, at least as I worked with iron, it will saturate and then every, my understanding was like the more carbon that tries to get in, we'll push carbon out.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it ends up pushing out for whatever reason it pushes out the top and then it forms as it does it these like these nanotube structures what the fine so you have to you have to like get the balance of conditions in order to get the nanotube to grow like a tree you find it's unlike an acceptable somewhere who comes up with a ship like actually who comes up with the ship is most of the chemistry and to be honest I actually

[SPEAKER_00]: Don't, I mean, I do know there's very few people that got told me how to do this is like phenomenon stacked on phenomenon yeah, yeah, phenomenon like what I don't know, because the thing is it's not even that when you get the carbon nanotubes to grow properly.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you get them, if you get the density high enough, which means you have to tune a lot of details, but if you get like kind of like the trees close enough together and long enough, they'll crisscross as they grow and they'll tangle and they'll form like. [SPEAKER_00]: That's what you want, you want to get. [SPEAKER_00]: What do you get tanglements? [SPEAKER_00]: Like a shadow rug. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so when you. [SPEAKER_00]: But your mom's done if you.

[SPEAKER_00]: if you pull on it, once you have the fibers grown, as you pull on them, they kind of tangle and come together and then you can pull it into it. [SPEAKER_02]: It keeps, it keeps like extending out almost like you're like pulling a thread of them. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, John. [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_02]: Like a string out of a dog's bones. [SPEAKER_01]: There's a video of somebody doing this right now, Joe. [SPEAKER_01]: I think you showed it to me.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: Up. [SPEAKER_00]: And so when you pull it out, it's [SPEAKER_00]: Pulling carbon now.

[SPEAKER_00]: It forms strings and then you can form like a thread, but it's just like the number of people working on it is like pretty low and that was telling us telling Kevin that From my understanding and what I've been told by somebody who works with carbon attitudes they were like [SPEAKER_00]: Even if you got it working, like you dialed in all the conditions, you got it all working and you're like, I'm going to contact it. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to buy the same system.

[SPEAKER_00]: All the same parts and build the exact same system. [SPEAKER_00]: He's like the same conditions won't work. [SPEAKER_00]: You'll have use from his experience. [SPEAKER_00]: It can take like a week or a few weeks to like get it working again. [SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, you have to know kind of like the weird intricacies of the systems. [SPEAKER_00]: some Verdi sacrifices, because like carb growing carbon nanotrives are low and are like nauseous.

[SPEAKER_00]: That, right, growing carbon nanotrives is not that crazy. [SPEAKER_00]: Getting it to be like where you can pull a thread is like the next. [SPEAKER_02]: What do you do? [SPEAKER_02]: I like it. [SPEAKER_02]: So can you keep pulling? [SPEAKER_02]: Can you pull the thread from the like mass, the tube, the pile of tubes? [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, forever. [SPEAKER_02]: Like how long will the pile of tubes?

[SPEAKER_00]: Until the pile of tubes runs out and there's videos that people doing it and they put it on like a bobbin and they can make like a carbon nanotube thread. [SPEAKER_00]: and it's just super lightweight and the material alone before you like spin it up is like spider web. [SPEAKER_00]: But I think the thread itself is like super light, but the equivalent like thickness steel, it can, I think you can hold up the equivalent thickness of like a steel cable, but it weighs like nothing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I could be wrong about that. [SPEAKER_02]: The threads people have actually made or like actually strong or is it one of those things where it's still really frail and you have to put a bunch of them together. [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, I guess it depends on, you know, like I don't know, I see like, like it kind of pulls apart because like a spider thread is like strong but relatively weak. [SPEAKER_02]: Like it's not practically you'd have to, oh God.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, I can't, the little point that's the, that's the, the tubes forming a thread at the point. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay. [SPEAKER_01]: And he's got it on the end of it looks like a drill it's like a spider spy. [SPEAKER_02]: It's like what happens to say it was spiders But yeah, he's cutting it. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, he cut it with scissors. [SPEAKER_01]: That's not strong. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so Then you I'm assuming you can't make yours.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, so he's like twisting it and pulling it from what looks like a fuzzy black piece of Glass. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah Oh my god, it's very thin. [SPEAKER_02]: You can't even say one pixel on the screen. [SPEAKER_02]: You can't see it hardly [SPEAKER_01]: So he's like tugging on it that is surprisingly strong. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like it's so thin and so strong if you just touch it, your finger falls off. [SPEAKER_02]: Dude, that's it. [SPEAKER_01]: But what if that would be so cool.

[SPEAKER_04]: So he like. [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, that was like in the three body problem. [SPEAKER_02]: I found it. [SPEAKER_02]: What, uh, can you, so you can't make, what do you call the mass? [SPEAKER_02]: What do you call like the little, the spider mass? [SPEAKER_02]: What do you, you know, like the big giant block of spiders? [SPEAKER_02]: And they like, you poke something in all the spiders. [SPEAKER_02]: But I shouldn't say I'm here. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, I've been there before.

[SPEAKER_01]: Really? [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, first week I moved to Florida. [SPEAKER_01]: There was a big spider in the house and my mom slaps it with a sandal and it explodes in a million spiders. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, right. [SPEAKER_02]: So you have like the blob of nanotubes. [SPEAKER_02]: What do they call that? [SPEAKER_02]: They're like just like the forest. [SPEAKER_02]: Do you have a word for it? [SPEAKER_00]: That's what it's called.

[SPEAKER_00]: The dark and orange forest. [SPEAKER_01]: Dude, you're so good. [SPEAKER_01]: They have to come. [SPEAKER_01]: You could do that. [SPEAKER_02]: They have to come with a better name. [SPEAKER_02]: That's bullshit. [SPEAKER_02]: You can nanotubes for it. [SPEAKER_00]: You're your genius. [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_00]: They can't. [SPEAKER_02]: Please come with something better. [SPEAKER_02]: Call it the now red. [SPEAKER_02]: Now reds for us. [SPEAKER_02]: Now reds bush.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then you have to do that in a separate stage, yeah, you can't do it all in one process, I'm assuming. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but you grow the forest. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's not like a continue all like through point kind of thing. [SPEAKER_02]: Like you shave the sheep and then you want it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I guess you can only make the thread like it's determined by how big that, uh, like more is the length. [SPEAKER_01]: There's like the area of the forest.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay. [SPEAKER_02]: And then if you wanted to like make more thread, could you like stick like a two forest together? [SPEAKER_02]: Or is there some weird like inner linking that happened in when it's grown? [SPEAKER_01]: You might have to do like an overlap. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think I think it needs to be like grown together. [SPEAKER_02]: So you have almost like you're pulling threads off a crystal, but it's not a crystal, it's a forest.

[SPEAKER_02]: And if you don't, if it's not like grown in the same set on the same tray, then you can't pull it out as a thread. [SPEAKER_00]: It's actually, they'll just slide a lot on each other. [SPEAKER_00]: I think there's a lot of voodoo involved with it and there's not that many labs or people who even do it. [SPEAKER_00]: I should say, I should probably, I should formally, you know, request anyone watching this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Please reach out and save me from the hell I am living working with these. [SPEAKER_02]: Um, I've been hearing about carbon, I don't tubes for like 20 years and yeah, I have not seen any cool stuff come out of what's the difference between carbon nanotubes and carbon fiber macrosuphs That carbon fiber. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: What is carbon fiber versus nanotubes? [SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, it's like all of I think the carbon world is a is a sham.

[SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, the whole carbon world is very interesting, and this is like a random fact that I thought was interesting. [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like, for example, what is diamond, right? [SPEAKER_00]: That's interesting. [SPEAKER_00]: How do you grow, how do you grow diamond? [SPEAKER_00]: It's just kind of the way you grow diamond. [SPEAKER_00]: is kind of the same way.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's it's also carbon vapor deposition, but you start with like a diamond seed and usually the the gas to use this methane and you the classic way that people do it is well common way is like microwave plasma if you do it with CBD. [SPEAKER_00]: So you put methane and hydrogen in like a plasma soup [SPEAKER_00]: It forms like these free carbons that then deposit on the diamond sea crystal. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, of course, the line actually.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they line up with the existing diamond lattice and a grow diamond does every carbon process involve soup. [SPEAKER_02]: Like carbon. [SPEAKER_02]: No, like the, you have to see, you have to get the gaseous carbon soup.

[SPEAKER_00]: But what I wanted to say was like that I thought was very weird is I watched this in this huge long video of this guy giving like It was like that's when I was like it wasn't a lecture, but it was like a presentation very very useful info On just diamond cutting and like how diamonds are shaped And just the whole history of how people figured out how do you cut the hardest substance? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, what do you use, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And what I thought was interesting is for a long time, I think even now, the way that they like polish diamond, they use like a lapping saw or not saw, like a lapping table, they don't, it's not even really, people don't really know exactly how the, it even works. [SPEAKER_00]: It just kind of works. [SPEAKER_02]: Is it like more diamonds, like diamond powder or something? [SPEAKER_00]: Well, how do you get the dust? [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, put diamond.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think diamond powers pretty easy to make. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but not back in the day when they were just bash the shit out of a diamond that you feel like it's diamonds. [SPEAKER_00]: Diamonds do have a crystal structure and like a crystal grain. [SPEAKER_00]: So if you know how to look for it, you can find it and you can shear it on its crystal grain by hitting it. [SPEAKER_00]: That's how like a lot of people would like cut the diamond.

[SPEAKER_00]: But when it comes to like grinding it, [SPEAKER_00]: It kind of makes no sense how you can grind diamond with itself, effectively. [SPEAKER_04]: I think that does. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, this is this is what the part that it's like, this is the part that it just takes longer. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, but it works pretty well. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, whereas if you were to try to grind like carbon steel with carbon steel, you're just going to have like a smear mass, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I was thinking. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: That's why I thought it would be hard to like, time with diamond. [SPEAKER_00]: When they have it on like the lapping things that spin, the guy was saying that kind of part of the theory is because, uh, diamonds have a hard direction and a soft direction. [SPEAKER_00]: There's a direction where they're a bit harder. [SPEAKER_00]: then the other direction.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the idea was when you put the diamond grit on the what's it called on the table and you spin it on the diamond. [SPEAKER_00]: the particles randomly orient on their hard side and that's how they cut the soft side they cut in the soft direction on the diamond and you have to orient the diamond in a certain direction to get it to cut properly. [SPEAKER_02]: I do believe that because even Kleenex has a direction that Terry's won doesn't care well. [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_02]: To save money on Kleenex, if Kleeney my daughter's bottom, I'll take care of them and have. [SPEAKER_02]: You found this crystal grant. [SPEAKER_02]: But sometimes it's different from the way that it's folded in the bottom. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, anyways, if somebody knows why a Kleenex would be a clean air tear in one direction and the other let me know Try the fibers are put on the term.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm never noticed that you discover something All I want to say is that [SPEAKER_00]: You would assume then that it would be kind of like you did it with metal, you'd have like slices out of the metal, but when you examine the diamond close-up, it's perfectly smooth. [SPEAKER_00]: So they're like, it kind of doesn't make sense. [SPEAKER_00]: And then the second thing was, if you grind diamond with diamond, what powder do you get? [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to say not diamond.

[SPEAKER_01]: I would think it's diamond. [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's not. [SPEAKER_00]: They said that they get a carbon just like what's it called graphite so it just like decomposes.

[SPEAKER_00]: It changes form to graphite so they're like, they don't really know how any of it just works, but they know you have to orient like the diamond grain and a certain direction and do it, but it just is kind of like it works well and it doesn't really apparently knowing at least when I saw this lecture the guy was saying he's like no one is really proven how it works or it doesn't really make sense and no one has a true record like mechanism for it or white turns to graphite.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're never going to cure cancer or anything people are still like it just works house move is the surface like it's like perfectly smooth. [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's like pretty smooth, but it wouldn't it's not like there's no like gouge marks like you don't you do something like sandpaper on something and you see like scratches it just like the diamond just I don't think you have to have super fine diamond just like the diamond grit they use just polishes it to like a nice shine.

[SPEAKER_02]: I wonder. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_02]: I wonder if it don't, man. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just like making shit up. [SPEAKER_02]: But it almost feels like there's something between the grit and the diamond where it's like, they have to fail at the same time. [SPEAKER_02]: Like they sheer at the same time. [SPEAKER_02]: Like under the same load. [SPEAKER_02]: And so it's like harder for when to go to the other.

[SPEAKER_02]: But it can like, maybe it's like almost sacrificial. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it like knocks off the point that's, yeah, the most irregular. [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I was thinking, like there's some weird. [SPEAKER_01]: There's like the most stresses on that area. [SPEAKER_02]: Because like to gouge, like, I don't know. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I just who fucking knows if this is what we're going to know. [SPEAKER_00]: So I know. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we get it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Wait, we can't see it. [SPEAKER_02]: way, that's a thing that got me and they'll have to was I really wrong because if you were going to gouge a gouge requires like a smaller area and a smaller area has like a more of a sheer like a smaller sheer area because you would need like a knife to stick into the diamond, a chunk of diamond into a big face of diamond.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like could see your knife breaking before the big face because the big like how do you how do you sheer out a big chunk? [SPEAKER_02]: How do you scoop out a chunk if the sheer [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, sure, every night for small, like basically whatever is bigger is going to stand strong. [SPEAKER_02]: So you just end up obliterating all the small things. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like take your pocket knife. [SPEAKER_01]: The tip and try to like gouge out a piece of metal.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're going to break the tip. [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to break the tip. [SPEAKER_01]: That's my theory. [SPEAKER_01]: And you're going to get a gouge that's the size of the tip that's broken off.

[SPEAKER_00]: if that's true and is proven I want to I would like to call it the uh Nigel the Nigel bush effect I mean I just feel like I'm just Diamonds and now I'm just thinking about diamond in general is so weird because I went down the rabbit hole figuring out how diamonds again are just like cut [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, oh, you know, it would be cool if I like got a diamond and I was just able to like, you know, go through the process of cutting it.

[SPEAKER_00]: The answer is kind of like, uh, that's not something I'm doing. [SPEAKER_02]: Is your girlfriend listen to this podcast? [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, I don't know. [SPEAKER_02]: She's going to like that sentence. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, what? [SPEAKER_02]: Cutting dice. [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I mean, I love it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's,

[SPEAKER_00]: Why should I kind of give it away said if you have a diamond and you want to make it right Are you tumbling with a bunch of other diamonds on what you literally put it basically you stick them on like there are too little mini lades and you just like Bable it them together.

[SPEAKER_02]: Wow Like they just demand forces This is all the three all the sharp corners get obliterated until like the oh like the show the only thing that can survive is blunt Yeah Just too far I think we just figured this out [SPEAKER_02]: Did we have how complicated this is there we have to be to get a named after you is this enough for there is do we have to like prove something. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I think it, so I think you have to have some proof.

[SPEAKER_00]: What's it? [SPEAKER_02]: I guess like period. [SPEAKER_02]: I bought this. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, source. [SPEAKER_00]: I made it to fuck up. [SPEAKER_00]: What was prove wrong? [SPEAKER_00]: You like I for some reason I feel like this theory is equivalent could be wrong. [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it's not like what was the what was Einstein's like, uh, [SPEAKER_00]: Here you go to electric effect. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I don't remember that one. [SPEAKER_00]: Was it Einstein?

[SPEAKER_00]: The one where you like shoot gold? [SPEAKER_00]: Ah, I was out for radiation. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, something like it wasn't, it was not like a major thing that it wasn't like his grand, I think, actually got like something here. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know enough about it. [SPEAKER_00]: But I feel like it's he probably saw it was like, yo, I got this theory, but so you got to prove it. [SPEAKER_00]: You can't just live but vibe it out.

[SPEAKER_01]: If I, if Einstein can't do it, we can't. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I agree with that. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, forget, yeah, it was you shoot a material with UV. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember exactly what it was. [SPEAKER_00]: But it's kind of like, if I remember at all, like, correctly, was the Einstein who, I think I said,

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was like radiation on a phosphorus screen and they blocked it with gold or something like that to make up I don't know but it was like it's what showed that there was like discrete absorption intervals where it's like you keep ramping up the energy but the photon that comes out like I think was the same and then eventually it just randomly went up an energy and they're like there's like oh well there's discrete intervals but it's like that's not really a proof that's just like you just saw something and you're like

[SPEAKER_04]: That was cool. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't, I don't know why I thought about that. [SPEAKER_00]: But it's like, but it's a thing, you have to like prove it. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what you get, you know, notoriety for it. [SPEAKER_00]: You don't just see it and go, yeah, I got a vibe of this. [SPEAKER_02]: How do you prove it? [SPEAKER_02]: You like, look, it happened. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_02]: I can make it happen again.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: What about a one round diamond and then one cut diamond? [SPEAKER_02]: I still, I think it's going to round off the other one. [SPEAKER_02]: It's going to round off the other one. [SPEAKER_02]: see that's how you that's the proof that's the proof and they'd be like well that's not enough and then who decides that it's not enough. [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to need a lot of money for this experiment. [SPEAKER_01]: Diamonds are excessive. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, man.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, are they? [SPEAKER_02]: What if we do a really small experiment? [SPEAKER_01]: No, what if we do this? [SPEAKER_01]: So you do a huge dive. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we can't really measure anything. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, we can only measure like tens of a millimeter. [SPEAKER_01]: So we need big diamonds. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, come and scale. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not great. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I think we're, I think we're on to something guys.

[SPEAKER_01]: way Nigel also told me another cursed chemistry thing kind of related to this where if you're growing a crystal and you want it to be one shape. [SPEAKER_02]: What does that mean? [SPEAKER_01]: It's like where? [SPEAKER_01]: So a crystal can can form like the same chemical can grow in a bunch of if you different shades when you crystallize it.

[SPEAKER_01]: But sometimes you're growing you keep growing one crystal right over and over you have the process down and then suddenly the chemical starts crystallizing in another form. [SPEAKER_02]: This is like the whole like business is like the squares. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, it's like so say that you get something that grows in a hexagon and then it will start growing as like a square, but you need it as the hexagon or something.

[SPEAKER_01]: And there's like they can't figure out why it changes and you can never really get it to go back once it's changed form you have to find what that was. [SPEAKER_01]: Public Spontaneous Crystal, I don't know. [SPEAKER_02]: Like some shit cut in there. [SPEAKER_02]: It'd be sad to see something. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and then they, like you literally, you can't go back. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like a crystal of a lower energy form is how it works.

[SPEAKER_01]: And once you create that crystal, it's a lower energy form. [SPEAKER_01]: Like even if you get brand new beakers and brand new material, [SPEAKER_02]: if it's anywhere. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like a pry on. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a pry on in the air. [SPEAKER_01]: You have one crystal, one molecule that'll land in your new beaker and start that and so there's a whole conspiracy about it, but I have to find I'm going to find what it is.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's truly cursed and some of in a lot of times the crystal structure matters or like like optical stuff or I don't know I read this was a problem in the pharmaceutical industry I don't like that yeah, I don't either I don't want to talk about Tylenol maybe he ought to have a problem. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. [SPEAKER_02]: So like. [SPEAKER_02]: What? [SPEAKER_02]: So, what do we hear? [SPEAKER_02]: What? [SPEAKER_02]: That's so weird.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like the idea that you can have, like, because the crystal will keep forming the same shape because it's like, it's depositing and it just sort of naturally aligns it's though. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's like, like, like, I was for something. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, yeah, it's just a kind of this like low energy state where it almost like, it, like, snaps into place. [SPEAKER_02]: Like it wants to pop into place.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, assembling a brick while you're placing a brick in the exact place every time. [SPEAKER_02]: But then if something happens at like offsets it, then all of a sudden you can find like a different way that it kind of like like magnets and maybe it's like it's a matter of Yeah, weird analogy, right, we're like, you know you have a bunch of magnets.

[SPEAKER_01]: Or it's like you start assembling the like instead of putting the bricks down long ways you start putting them next to shop is like it still would fit. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, then it's too thick or something. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And then it changes. [SPEAKER_00]: So, I found it. [SPEAKER_00]: It actually says it's retone of ear and HIV medication marketed as nerve ear. [SPEAKER_00]: This is actually terrifying.

[SPEAKER_00]: Originally manufactured in a crystalline form referred to as Form 1, but then unexpectedly a new crystal form, Form 2 of ear. [SPEAKER_00]: It says, but form two was more stable. [SPEAKER_00]: So even once a tiny amount existed, it ceded the other batches and forced them to form into form two, but form two at a lot less solubility, and it didn't dissolve into the body properly, which meant the drug was no longer effective.

[SPEAKER_00]: It said that once the form to appeared, every attempt to produce form one failed. [SPEAKER_00]: It's just entire facilities became quote unquote contaminated, and they were not able to ever make form one again. [SPEAKER_00]: Pharmacies and manufacturing plants had to be shut down and rebuilt because they were no longer able to make the original form. [SPEAKER_00]: It caused a major global shortage and forced Abbott, the guest of the company, to completely reformulate the drug.

[SPEAKER_00]: in the 1990s. [SPEAKER_02]: It's a totally shit. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: That's insane. [SPEAKER_02]: That's actually like scorched. [SPEAKER_02]: It's a tear this whole factory down. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Go that in another country to get away from like the three part of floating around like Southeast Texas.

[SPEAKER_00]: What the fuck dude that would actually just a disaster like you just you just start like your chemistry say it's failing and you're like I can't stop it. [SPEAKER_02]: I would I would like I would think there was some like bad divine intervention happening in me I'd be like am I a renafimulation right now like this work yesterday. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, how do you figure that out even? [SPEAKER_02]: Like, could you imagine you've done this over and over and over again?

[SPEAKER_02]: It's just completely, I would, I would in a commercial product too. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it started changing the product you already made. [SPEAKER_02]: Dude, and they like panicking trying to figure out if it's like fine and it's not. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, a prize, like the perfect description of that. [SPEAKER_02]: Like total, total, like a weird like physical infection.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it happens in some metals to like 10 in pure 10, if it gets cold, it changes to like a different structure. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and then it like starts to propagate throughout the metal and it takes up slightly more space like the already solid metal. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the already solid metal, it takes up more space, the new crystal structure and this whole thing just turns to dust it crumbles because it like so like all the weird forces inside of it.

[SPEAKER_02]: That means it's like, like, it's almost like spring loaded like every like Adam is like spring loaded in the crystal structure. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: And it's able to like, if you like unlock it, just because it's like, it's pre loaded, but you somehow like what like the Prince of Rupert drop, it's like pre stressed.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: And it holds itself together, but you like somehow you can introduce like just one little [SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, and it's, uh, it's only down to like 50 degrees Fahrenheit is when that happens. [SPEAKER_01]: Really? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: They just get it like, like, evening cold and the whole thing will just degrade. [SPEAKER_01]: It seeds it. [SPEAKER_01]: And then it slowly happens a long time. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I forget.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like a year, mostly. [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's, it's within a year. [SPEAKER_00]: Wait, can you people, you're saying, sorry, I got lost on the reading about retone of here. [SPEAKER_01]: I said this, the same thing can happen with metals. [SPEAKER_01]: So, like the tin crystal, in pureish, tin metal, I don't know if they have to be totally pure. [SPEAKER_01]: But if you get cold, the crystal structure changes to a crystal that takes up more space.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like when water freezes it, it's bigger. [SPEAKER_01]: So does this tin crystal. [SPEAKER_01]: And it pushes the metal apart from the inside until it starts crumbling. [SPEAKER_01]: That's, is it called 10 Pest I think wild? [SPEAKER_00]: It really looks like it's not 10 socks man.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: It makes me think that adding impurities is actually like almost maybe always a good thing because I feel, I, I don't know why I feel like a lot of these weird things would happen with like pure. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Because if you're introducing the abnormalities like, are there, is that introducing more chances for these weird states?

[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like a, like, [SPEAKER_01]: Right, because then then you have, like, instead of one crystal, you have a bunch of different crystals like ordered chaoticly. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_02]: It's like already chaos, like, yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's like what was carbon and steel, it like it gets in between the sliding.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Like it stops the sliding or makes it sort of like the, you know, crystals, cheering against each other is not as easy. [SPEAKER_02]: Um, it's like you're sort of introducing stuff that kind of just like, or is it to be one thing? [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: What if there's a bone crystal that changes and then everybody's bone start dissolving? [SPEAKER_01]: Red oxide? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: No, that makes bone strong.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I feel like, I mean, the most, like, you mentioned already like, pry on disease. [SPEAKER_00]: Like with the, uh, it's like all where your proteins start to think, uh, that's like, I mean, kind of similar. [SPEAKER_02]: I do this. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, no, I don't like thinking about that. [SPEAKER_01]: Are you down and, no, I'm over it. [SPEAKER_01]: Talk about something else. [SPEAKER_01]: We can go back to solar. [SPEAKER_04]: I was going to like, probably on the road.

[SPEAKER_04]: No, no solar. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, no solar, but we have so many what one one other thing I was going to say about carbon going back to carbon. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I was going to ask you what the hell I want to hear more about car your carbon nanotubes on your tubes. [SPEAKER_00]: I was not that much more to say. [SPEAKER_02]: What do you mean there's not much more to say? [SPEAKER_02]: No, I want to hear.

[SPEAKER_02]: I want to know why do you want to make carbon annotations because I think that, like, Well, he doesn't want to spoil the video. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, but he went on that. [SPEAKER_02]: When does he went on that? [SPEAKER_00]: That's a good point. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't want to ruin the video.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so you and also we'll never come out until I succeed, but we can have succeeded when we make carbon nanotubes you make your Nigel's bush you pull yarn you like me thread from it, and then the thread is like sort of tangibly strong like in our our domain of size and scale, like if you can tug on it, that's pretty strong yeah and then.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, could you like weave it into a like a tennis racket and then you hit flies with it and you turn them in like in front in the french fries french flies That'd be way more fun. [SPEAKER_01]: You all you want to do is make the tube we can do it

[SPEAKER_00]: Don't say tennis racket, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no

[SPEAKER_00]: then you the video if you look up carbon nanotube pulling because they're like spider webs you have this thing you pull it and they just float away it just looks really cool yeah i thought that i'm surprised john didn't find that one because i've never seen the one that john sent that's the asbestos vibes it looks like it's anti-gratt it looks like it's anti-gratt do you ever get those in your underwear or what [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, carbon nanotube.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I tell you like, I don't know what it is, but it might be the elastic that sometimes you have like, you know, a thread that starts the pokes out of your underwear with a whisp and you pull it and it it's like this Red and then it kind of just puffed up as your, you know, once it's once it breaks free. [SPEAKER_01]: And it goes in a pot of something. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, maybe something like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: It pops up like, you know, it's like pretty thick and it's a bunch of little tiny fibers in a way, it's nothing and it just kind of floats around maybe I can find one. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it did. [SPEAKER_00]: You're under way, Kevin's underwear is making worse sound. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think that makes sense. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I don't know why. [SPEAKER_01]: You've never done that. [SPEAKER_01]: You've never even ever pulled one it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, maybe like what do you get cheap underwear expensive underwear? [SPEAKER_02]: Both, but I couldn't tell you which one. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay. [SPEAKER_01]: What's expensive underwear? [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know my wife. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know my wife. [SPEAKER_00]: I Just buy those. [SPEAKER_00]: You too, actually My wife is your underwear. [UNKNOWN]: You [SPEAKER_01]: I just get the big call maybe I think it's like stand X is the thing that is that's the fiber.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it kind of is always kind of stretchy. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, maybe it's like loaded and it just sort of explodes when it's pulled out of your thought. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we're going to make what the tubes. [SPEAKER_02]: You're going to like, you're going to invest thousands and thousands of dollars in 10 different ways and he's still not going to tell you.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're going to have a school of carbon nanotubes like thread and you're just going to like put in a shelf and then make magnets. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I want it to do the floaty part. [SPEAKER_02]: That's what you did the best is part you told me something else. [SPEAKER_00]: He's not a viewer Kevin. [SPEAKER_00]: I can tell Wilson. [SPEAKER_00]: There was a fake fan. [SPEAKER_02]: What does that mean? [SPEAKER_02]: I don't watch your fan at all.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't watch any YouTube. [SPEAKER_02]: Unless it's about solar panels. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's so true. [SPEAKER_02]: Don't worry, a couple of weeks. [SPEAKER_02]: I'll be one of something else. [SPEAKER_00]: This guy is really, really trying hard to get back to the solar panel. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's get. [SPEAKER_00]: That's a great segue. [SPEAKER_02]: Just solar panels. [SPEAKER_02]: Did we talk about car batteries yet?

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think you talked about car batteries. [SPEAKER_02]: are we not are we not a lot talk about solar who hates solid god damn it I think it's better than taxes Okay, here's solar energy or solar in general. [SPEAKER_02]: I just don't like I think that I think that I Well, then you've just fucking boil it up until a battery pack me pulled off of a Tesla [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think we talked about ways.

[SPEAKER_02]: Did we talk about like solar batteries being a waste and how there's like sun power their company that has the panels and no, I don't think we talked about it. [SPEAKER_00]: Did I do we not? [SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: We had about this. [SPEAKER_00]: No, we talked about that. [SPEAKER_00]: We did. [SPEAKER_02]: I was pretty sure it did. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, so, you know, everyone always complains about like the batteries, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Are you lying to us? [SPEAKER_01]: Nigel, are you lying to us? [SPEAKER_01]: Nigel, are you? [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure it's because we have a bad memory. [SPEAKER_01]: Watch what makes it easier for you to guess. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't talk. [SPEAKER_00]: You talked about how there was a company.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's something with the software and bricks and everything and then yeah, and then you you talk to a guy because you wanted to buy something and he was giving you like the something weird was going on yeah, yeah, basically he was going to sell you trash.

[SPEAKER_02]: So everyone complains about lithium batteries and then it turns out there's like a whole other source of lithium batteries are just cars and it turns out that you can with like a little bit of maybe exploding your fingers off just like pull the battery out of a Tesla bolt it to like your living room wall and then power your whole house or [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the Tesla power wall you can like take off all the body panels.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's just the wheels and the battery battery to the wall. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes [SPEAKER_00]: You don't want to be sick if you did it like where, uh, what's it called like whatever the back, the trunks on the ground, so you can get in the car like you're in a spaceship. [SPEAKER_00]: You just kind of like, kind of just like sit there. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_02]: It's like you're living room couch. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Wow. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's cool. [SPEAKER_00]: Sitting like you get a hole. [SPEAKER_00]: You get to lean back. [SPEAKER_00]: You can watch stuff on the Tesla dash. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I actually, the more I read into this stuff, like the anger you're gonna get, like, there is this sort of recycling nightmare that everyone fucking complains about lithium mines and batteries and whatnot, but like cars have batteries that you can just use.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, you can't, because the company won't let you. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's all locked. [SPEAKER_02]: And so we just found Kevin I we're looking there's an entire project like a full like the biggest car battery project have ever seen where they're fully documenting like essentially making data sheets for batteries like different cars decoding all the signals that come from the cars batteries so you can connect it to a solar charger or inverter right.

[SPEAKER_02]: And like all you want to do is use the battery like a battery, but you have to like tickle it in three different ways. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, say something nice to it and then it unlocks like it opens the contactor which then lets you pull power from it. [SPEAKER_02]: And like they're like, what, what do you have any of what they do with these batteries? [SPEAKER_02]: Like when you total a car like you like crash your Tesla.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: And and I mean obviously there's like a second hand market for it, but like where would that battery go otherwise? [SPEAKER_02]: I think I draw a giant shredder like actually do they just do they take it apart or they send it somewhere else like what do they do with it? [SPEAKER_02]: I think what they used to do is literally shred the whole bout and this recycled them like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, yeah, like, but is it not better to just take the car battery out and like not no joke. [SPEAKER_02]: Stick it in a shed on your side yard and use that. [SPEAKER_02]: You don't even need a shed, dude. [SPEAKER_02]: The thing is like the bottom of your car and survive anything. [SPEAKER_02]: Just stick it like in your house on the side of you. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and then power your house that way.

[SPEAKER_01]: If I was king of the world, I would say that you have to allow people to use it as a battery. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Or, or you like build a standardization where like once the pack is dead, it like can go somewhere or people can buy it. [SPEAKER_02]: It can just get installed into something and it's all like the protocols and whatnot are like open or you have to buy a thing that just like lets you plug into it. [SPEAKER_02]: If they want to be safe about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, or you can't, like it has to be a communication protocol that like a standard protocol, so anybody can get into the battery. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like you could, if you like totaled your EV for some reason. [SPEAKER_01]: Or not like protocol, but like what they send in the protocol.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because that's like half of this whole thing that we've been like looking into and what these, you know, absolute legendary nerds have done is they like, you plug in, they like plug in to the can bus on their car. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, a Tesla whatnot. [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like they're like pulling all of the Cannes bus data, which is like the protocol that cars talked to other components with a lot of cars.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then they're like plotting the Cannes bus data to figure out like what each individual ID or each message that's tied to some part of the car is tied to. [SPEAKER_02]: So it'll be like ID67. [SPEAKER_02]: And that's like the battery signal, but there's nothing in it tells you a battery signal. [SPEAKER_02]: So they just have to plot a bunch of data and like see how code 67 changes over time. [SPEAKER_02]: And you're like, oh, it's probably the battery.

[SPEAKER_02]: But it's probably the turn signal. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's probably the headlight. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, dude. [SPEAKER_01]: No, we're going in the opposite direction from that, though. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know the new ionic, or it's the one that Gibral has. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: If you want to change the battery on that, you need, you know, I'm sorry, not the battery. [SPEAKER_01]: The brakes, you have to take it to a dealership. [SPEAKER_01]: Why?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because it's an electronic break. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not, you know, when you put your car in park, it does like the electronic e-brake. [SPEAKER_01]: And you have to take the e-brake off to change your brakes. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: That's the story. [SPEAKER_01]: Or stays closed and you can't like move the calipers to take the pads off to put new pads off. [SPEAKER_02]: Why would they? [SPEAKER_01]: Why is that allowed?

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: But you like have to take it to the left. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Or like an OEM shop with a tool that can talk to the car. [SPEAKER_01]: Dude. [SPEAKER_01]: Which is like, you know, a few thousand dollars. [SPEAKER_01]: The future is now.

[SPEAKER_02]: what environmental catastrophe though like they don't want you to change your breaks they definitely don't want you to take your own battery out of your house group to the wall of your house yeah i just i just like i saw start up in as a youtube video of this company and i think like Lancaster california and they they have like shipping containers full of like carbatter maybe Nissan leaf i don't know i feel like that might be the most common one

[SPEAKER_02]: And so they literally just take car batteries, okay, take them to the desert, shove them in a shipping container, and that's the business. [SPEAKER_02]: They just charge them up and then sell the power back to the grid at night. [SPEAKER_02]: But like, they're not building packs, they're not buying packs. [SPEAKER_02]: They're just taking batteries out of cars that would like, go, okay, when you like crash your your gas car, what happens to it?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like what happens to the engine? [SPEAKER_02]: What happens to everything? [SPEAKER_02]: Strategy goes into the shredder, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Like there's like not a single part of the car that gets saved. [SPEAKER_02]: But now imagine you crash an EV and you can pull out like a couple of the most vital components like the the motors and the battery like the battery can be used for anything like how many parts on a gas car can be used for anything Like none.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you're siphoned the gas out and put it in your lawn mower. [SPEAKER_02]: You can't even buy a castle on what was here anywhere right like. [SPEAKER_02]: There's something sort of like unsatisfying about the current recycling and reuse of what is kind of like an enormous burden on the environment. [SPEAKER_01]: And like the inverters that drive the motors, too. [SPEAKER_01]: You could use that for any serious power. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, serious power.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's so expensive as fuck. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: And you can just, here it is, but you can't, it's worth less if it's not in the car. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but it probably costs like thousands of dollars for you to find an equivalent solution off the shelf. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, tens of thousands of dollars. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like if you were looking if you're building something. [SPEAKER_02]: Anyways, that's my, we can, we cannot talk about solar anymore.

[SPEAKER_02]: All I know is that you can basically have a 400 volt battery, which is sick because it's above your house power. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, dude. [SPEAKER_01]: You could do three phase. [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: Yep. [SPEAKER_01]: And the other inventory would actually bring the voltage down. [SPEAKER_01]: That one that you looked at, uh, had a three phase model. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I got the name, but yeah, that would be sick.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's one day, one day, we're going to do this. [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to go. [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to get a Tesla and we're going to pull a battery out. [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to put a motor in the Taylor Don. [SPEAKER_02]: And we're going to have an ESP 32 that then communicates between the inverter and the in the Tesla battery.

[SPEAKER_02]: which is sort of horrifying, the idea of buying in the USB 32 and Amazon putting code on it and having it attached to like maybe one of the most flammable things. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: All right, I have other, oh, do we want to talk about the penny? [SPEAKER_02]: Do you guys still have the penny? [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like we should talk about the penny. [SPEAKER_00]: What penny? [SPEAKER_02]: I like write down things.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, no, I want to talk about something else. [SPEAKER_02]: This just is gonna hit this podcast. [SPEAKER_02]: This is gonna be the most boring podcast. [SPEAKER_00]: What penny are you talking about? [SPEAKER_01]: The penny, you did her penny. [SPEAKER_01]: It's gone. [SPEAKER_01]: And do you know how I feel about that Abraham Lincoln? [SPEAKER_02]: Do you want to know my opinion about the American penny? [SPEAKER_01]: He's died another death.

[SPEAKER_02]: I wrote an essay in senior year of college. [SPEAKER_02]: No, junior year, sorry, junior of high school for my AP English class. [SPEAKER_02]: Like one of our mock essays we were like an essay every week. [SPEAKER_02]: It was just like essays with all my writing essays. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Was should we get rid of the penny? [SPEAKER_02]: And this was like in 2008.

[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe even 2007. [SPEAKER_02]: And now, how many years later, like 20 years later, they finally got rid of the penny? [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, so you were pro, uh, you were anti-pennie. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't remember. [SPEAKER_02]: I just had to come up with something. [SPEAKER_02]: I had to have an opinion and say, I made an opinion, but I do not remember what I would have said. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you don't have an opinion on the penny. [SPEAKER_01]: No, I don't.

[SPEAKER_01]: So then you're on the wrong side of history. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry. [SPEAKER_02]: I really, you like the penny. [SPEAKER_02]: I think we should have it. [SPEAKER_02]: I think she'll fuck yourself. [SPEAKER_00]: Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha [SPEAKER_02]: What am I going to throw at cars at the overall standing on? [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, I don't think this is going to be that full job.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we're going to throw fistfuls of craft dollars. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think my argument's going to go that far. [SPEAKER_00]: But basically, the Canadian penny was retired many years ago, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it also doesn't matter because after a certain year, they stop making copies of pennies out of copper, but as Kevin may now, or maybe you will, a lot of science experiments require copper pennies. [SPEAKER_00]: So, it's just easy to get.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's right there. [SPEAKER_00]: Once the Canadian penny was gone, we turned to the American penny as a desperate, you know, replacement. [SPEAKER_00]: Because, you know, they're basically the same shape, same look, everything. [SPEAKER_00]: But now if you don't have a penny, what are we all going to turn to? [SPEAKER_00]: The euro cent? [SPEAKER_00]: What does that even made out of? [SPEAKER_02]: Starts vomiting everywhere.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, the good news is, I think you'll be able to get. [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to have to start very, very long. [SPEAKER_02]: Ripping the copper out of our walls for these. [SPEAKER_00]: No, but all these like experiments. [SPEAKER_00]: They're so convenient. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, oh, you can just do it with a penny. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, cut a piece of plumbing and do it. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, oh, I can do it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like the glowing penny and the acetone vapor, plating a penny. [SPEAKER_00]: Wait, the one euro cent. [SPEAKER_00]: Does it exist anymore? [SPEAKER_00]: But it says it's copper coated steel. [SPEAKER_00]: And I've got a little bit of copper still. [SPEAKER_02]: I think that you could right now go buy a giant bag of pennies and it would last you the rest of your life of pennies. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I cannot imagine how many pennies are in circulation or I've got to be like.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but how many pennies have you seen before like 1980 at this point, not a lot very few. [SPEAKER_01]: So I think in in what 40 years no more money is where they go. [SPEAKER_04]: That's a great question. [SPEAKER_01]: They're just like a lot of the same thing. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I thought the what year was the last full copper penny. [SPEAKER_01]: 83. [SPEAKER_02]: God, you said it's so good. [SPEAKER_02]: Comber pennies. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, do silver nickels.

[SPEAKER_00]: Kevin was 1857, but the last copper dominant penny. [SPEAKER_00]: That was 95%. [SPEAKER_02]: What is copper dominant, man? [SPEAKER_00]: Like majority of the copper. [SPEAKER_00]: They put like zinc in 10, but it's 5%. [SPEAKER_00]: But like it's 95% copper was 1882. [SPEAKER_00]: But you ask where they go. [SPEAKER_00]: I can tell you were the pre-1982 pen.

[SPEAKER_00]: Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, [SPEAKER_00]: I don't carry cash with me. [SPEAKER_00]: Most people I know don't.

[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of places, it's weird. [SPEAKER_00]: It's been so long that I've even seen people use cash at a store, like for an everyday thing. [SPEAKER_00]: But I was at the pharmacy, and this guy, all he was buying was one little bottle of detergent. [SPEAKER_00]: And so he puts it on the cash, the I don't know how much it was. [SPEAKER_00]: I think she was like, it's like, I don't know what it was or what brand is mine.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's say like $4 and I think I know it was $4 and it was something in 75 cents. [SPEAKER_00]: He just reaches into his pocket and he just drops a bunch of chains on the counter. [SPEAKER_00]: but he had pre-counted it, and it was just like, some nickels, dimes, oh, some squatters. [SPEAKER_01]: That's how old people always pay with cash. [SPEAKER_01]: They like dump out their cash. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, your first onto the counter. [SPEAKER_01]: Disrespectfully.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he's like counting. [SPEAKER_00]: And so we don't have pennies, but he's like counting the nickels, and I'm like, oh my god. [SPEAKER_00]: And then the girl gets all the money. [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't like a crazy amount of coins, but she got it, and she opens the cash register and she's sorting it. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, she pulls the cash. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, how's it man?

[SPEAKER_00]: How much faster did going to the store and buying things get when like I was up became a guy? [SPEAKER_00]: Like she's literally counting it all out. [SPEAKER_00]: It takes forever in the change. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you still have a bunch of cash. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, she is. [SPEAKER_02]: You don't like 10 lanes. [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, it's not, it's not them. [SPEAKER_01]: It's the old people that take like 10 minutes to sell where they go the longer they live.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's funny though, Kevin. [SPEAKER_00]: It's funny because you just kept saying old people. [SPEAKER_00]: You never asked who this guy was, but yes, it's [SPEAKER_00]: It's very reasonable to assume that he's like definitely all of your percent. [SPEAKER_02]: Trying to make it look like the few he leaves, he has left Bill as long as possible. [SPEAKER_00]: I just saw this definitely not like a young person.

[SPEAKER_01]: Old lady dump out her coin purse at a grocery store and she's like trying to kind of out the change and the cashier is like knows how much it is instantly. [SPEAKER_01]: He's like going for like the quarters. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, he's trying to be efficient about it. [SPEAKER_01]: But she's trying to use all of her small change.

[SPEAKER_01]: So he's like trying to get like 75 that's three quarters grab them, but she's like, no, here's some dimes here's some nickels and I have 15 pennies and I'm sitting there like

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, when when the next store closed down and the Dollar Tree started selling stuff for like a dollar 50 that should have been the signal to obliterate everything under the quarter like there is nothing in existence that uses pennies or dimes or nickels you like you it's just like quarter maybe maybe keep the quarter.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, maybe [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's just so I liked that I don't I don't I don't really know too much about it, but I've from what I saw I liked it when I was in Ukraine in 2014 They're I mean they're they're dollar was not worth that not dollar whatever their currency was not worth that much I think take US it was like I want to say 13 to one [SPEAKER_00]: I came to realize it was like kind of useless, like it was just such low denomination that

[SPEAKER_00]: It just was not that important and there's a few stores I went to where I bought something with a bill and like my change was let's say like 10 23 and I don't speak well and I rudimentary rudimentally I don't know where to be like understand Russian is they would speak Ukrainian or Russian but I didn't really understand what they're saying but they would say some stuff to me and I understood it as I don't have any change.

[SPEAKER_00]: but then what they would do is they'd point and they would just had you some candy instead. [SPEAKER_03]: Mmm, yes. [SPEAKER_00]: It was actually just like, well, no change. [SPEAKER_00]: That's the way it was. [SPEAKER_00]: Here's a bowl of candy. [SPEAKER_02]: That's perfect. [SPEAKER_02]: That's the perfect solution. [SPEAKER_02]: Get rid of the penny. [SPEAKER_02]: Get rid of the nickel. [SPEAKER_02]: Get rid of the dime and just have like little treats.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Like a little rabbit bowl of different trinkets. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Like you can grab this random candy. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm saying, you know. [SPEAKER_02]: Right. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: That's actually genius, we don't accept anything like smaller than quarters, but we'll give you like a two pack of salt Incracker.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so here's like a couple of two There was just red They're all like they were all packaged candies, and I always remember being like this pretty sick like I said I'd look and there'd be like a little selection in some pieces That is so much better than a penny It's like action. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's that's like a really really good solution [SPEAKER_00]: But I think it was only when it was maybe I said 23 cents.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it was like when it was like, yeah, 10 cents in below. [SPEAKER_00]: They're taking a candy, but the thing is, because I remember, I don't know, I don't know why the system was like that, because I'm pretty sure their bus system and metro system were pretty cheap, like they were like 25 cents or something. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like maybe it was just five in below or something.

[SPEAKER_01]: So people probably only bothered to carry in like the quarters and anything like, you know, they would only only, you know, if it was like 25 or 50 cents they'd give you quarters. [SPEAKER_01]: Let me see what's in my wallet right now. [SPEAKER_00]: I like I used my I think it was like, yeah, maybe they just didn't do a lot of the rounding and it was like if they all they just had like the 25 cents once and if it was let's say 40 cents, [SPEAKER_00]: 25 cents and 50.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, or 25 and some candy like or whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: I was a most places gave the money. [SPEAKER_00]: It was more like the mom and pop shops who went into who just like I guess didn't want to go to the bank and just get changed and stuff. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I like that system. [SPEAKER_00]: I like that system. [SPEAKER_00]: I have two house keys.

[SPEAKER_02]: You just get candy instead a flash drive in a little mystery piece of plastic. [SPEAKER_02]: That's what's in my coin. [SPEAKER_02]: The coin holder of my wallet. [SPEAKER_02]: Whatever that is, I have no idea what that is.

[SPEAKER_00]: What I find funny, it's like people try to give me I've had it before where it's like people try to give me money or it happens here in Canada where someone will be like, oh man, you covered the pizza here's 10 bucks and for what sometimes people are like, I don't want it like send it to me like buy like an app or 10 bucks, no, but I'm just saying for some people they're like, I'm I just I don't want to have to carry because like in their day to day life, they just don't use cash at all.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like if it's five bucks, some people are like, it's not worth it. [SPEAKER_00]: Really? [SPEAKER_02]: Cash has become like the exclusive currency to Facebook market, but yeah, like that's when these cash, it means I'm Facebook marketing. [SPEAKER_02]: Yep, or a garage sale. [SPEAKER_02]: Good garage, isn't it? [SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't all take cash any day, you know? [SPEAKER_01]: Just. [SPEAKER_01]: But I find that, it's, I'm never going to pull it out of my thinking.

[SPEAKER_02]: I must like, really, it's $1,000 and $1,000 and legal illicit purchases. [SPEAKER_00]: But I don't have this. [SPEAKER_00]: It's funny because the other day, I was just bowling with my brother and my friend. [SPEAKER_00]: And he asked me, because he wanted to go in the slots after. [SPEAKER_00]: He was he was like, I don't have any cash. [SPEAKER_00]: Do you have cash?

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's funny because in my mind I never have any cash at all So I turned to him and like I actually have a I'm like I have a ridiculous amount of cash on me and he was like whoa man way to flex I think I'd like 80 bucks, but to me [SPEAKER_00]: It was absurd because it's like, why would I even have that much so when I pulled up my wallet and showed a music weight You have like barely a hundred dollars. [SPEAKER_00]: Why absurd?

[SPEAKER_00]: I thought you meant you had thousands of like no to be just having any cash is crazy [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like having like $100 in your wallet at all times, like a secret, I always have like a $100 stash, like a $100 bill, like folded up deep into my wallet. [SPEAKER_02]: And that has saved my ass, really. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, like I probably actually half a dozen times in my wallet. [SPEAKER_00]: I would get a bill with that habit. [SPEAKER_00]: That's all you get about it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then you're like, oh shit, like, you know, let's say, you know, your phone dies, and you have like Apple Pay or something, like you have something where you like you genuinely cannot, like you just need even if it's $20. [SPEAKER_02]: That $100 in my wallet has saved my ass someone and then you just like have to go in the place it and you put it back and then you do not you'd never even think about it until you get situation we need it I have a funny story about that because.

[SPEAKER_00]: Door idea of 100 is saving you or being, you know, the saving grace is true. [SPEAKER_00]: It just so happened that when it happened to me was somebody else's hundred dollars. [SPEAKER_00]: Really? [SPEAKER_00]: Because basically what happened was, I think I told you about this before. [SPEAKER_00]: After OpenSaw's one, I was flying to Brazil to visit my girlfriend who, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So I, and at the airport, [SPEAKER_00]: I bumped into Peter Streeple.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he was like, he was like, hey man, like, you know, have a good time in Brazil. [SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, is it safe down there? [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, oh, I was like, honestly, I haven't been there before, like, I don't know what it's like. [SPEAKER_00]: And I told him, but I'm bringing like a second phone, I'm gonna walk around with just in case I lose it. [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't like lose all my stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, do you have a second wallet?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, no. [SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, Peter's like, well, I've got a second wallet. [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, I brought it to San Francisco. [SPEAKER_00]: Cause I just didn't want to put it on. [SPEAKER_00]: But I think I didn't feel like the really ugly wallet. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's like, I still have it, but he gives it to me. [SPEAKER_00]: And he goes, if you want it, you can take it. [SPEAKER_00]: It's just like, so you don't lose your good wallet.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, oh, cool. [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks, man. [SPEAKER_01]: So somebody might see you hand them the fake wallet. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_02]: But it was like, I remember being like a kids wallet though, no? [SPEAKER_00]: No, it was like a normal wallet, but he gives it to me and I get on my plane and I think him whatever I sit down. [SPEAKER_00]: I open the wallet and I go to switch my stuff over and I'm like just it's empty, but then I'm like just feeling around.

[SPEAKER_00]: I put my finger like two fingers in one of the pouches. [SPEAKER_00]: I pull out a folded up hundred dollars. [SPEAKER_00]: It was like [SPEAKER_00]: I was like no way and the thing that was funny was I didn't have I didn't exchange any money before going to Brazil So and I had a layover in Miami. [SPEAKER_00]: It saved me because I actually needed to get like do the exchange So I used Peter's money to exchange [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know what I like.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was super, it was super useful, but it's funny. [SPEAKER_00]: I messaged Peter and his exact answer was finders keepers on the computer. [SPEAKER_00]: But I thought it was so funny that he brought the wallet to San Francisco. [SPEAKER_00]: as a decoy but he ended up getting robbed of a hundred bucks. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Wait, so then you, you like, you moved your stuff to the wall that you, I feel like you would only move some stuff to the wall.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, I moved like, you know, but like the stuff I'd walk around during the day. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I did also find out that like, you know, obviously after I've been there like a few times, you know, the paranoia of, you know, just being thinking that, you know, these people is going to swoop down and, you know, grab all my things, just kind of realize that that's not reality.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's like, it's, it's, yeah, I mean, it just is the best way to say, it's like just be smart. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a big city. [SPEAKER_00]: There's lots of people. [SPEAKER_00]: Same as if you go to like LA or any other big city. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, you'd be careful where you are. [SPEAKER_00]: You just don't like, you know, don't stop it, stop it. [SPEAKER_00]: Don't whip your wallet out, it's like, don't whip your wallet out.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, I have a crap ton of cash. [SPEAKER_00]: Like saying something like that is probably not smart, but yeah, if you were to, uh, I don't know, the third time I went, I brought no decoy and no second phone didn't get around. [SPEAKER_00]: No, I remember going, you still if you're, if you're in a very heavily touristy area, you shouldn't. [SPEAKER_00]: like just be willy-nilly waving your phone around. [SPEAKER_00]: The likelihood of it being taken is low, but it's not zero.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, if I lived there, it'd probably be less concerned where it's like, if my stuff gets taken, like, you're kind of cooked. [SPEAKER_00]: Because I can't replace a lot of it until I go back home. [SPEAKER_02]: It's definitely kind of infuriating because it's like not anything in your wallet. [SPEAKER_02]: It's like worth a whole lot. [SPEAKER_02]: It's like when it breaks into your car for like, you know, they see like a 20-dollar bill in the console.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: And they steal it. [SPEAKER_02]: And you're like, oh, wow. [SPEAKER_02]: It's going to cost me $800. [SPEAKER_02]: That's exciting point. [SPEAKER_02]: No, like fuck you. [SPEAKER_00]: I think my uncle bought a laptop bag. [SPEAKER_00]: and he put it in his car, then went to go do something came back. [SPEAKER_00]: They broke his window to and it was just a bag. [SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, and so the bag was still there.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he's just like, you you pop my window to check. [SPEAKER_00]: Did they leave a note? [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry. [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry. [SPEAKER_00]: We were bad. [SPEAKER_00]: You're like, at least if they got your laptop, you're like, you know, I get it. [SPEAKER_00]: You know what? [SPEAKER_00]: I get what happened here. [SPEAKER_02]: Whenever we rent cars in San Francisco, we get the full insurance because I like that does happen and it's your window will get broken.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like we had we had a rental and there was nothing in it completely empty. [SPEAKER_02]: They still broke the little triangle window and there was nothing more glorious than just courteous. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, no, it's the easiest one to break into because they like, they break the triangle and then they go into the Yeah, it's a courtesy break in entry one. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and it just like basically we just taped it up and then you You drive for the rental car place on the way back and you just leave it there, and it's not your problem. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, But it was just annoying. [SPEAKER_01]: I was scared that was going to happen to my truck at the hackathon because I attempted windows two [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's not a return. [SPEAKER_00]: Imagine it's so prominent there that you could you could how much was the insurance?

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, like, maybe tens of dollars for a couple of times. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so imagine you just paid 10 bucks the day before you give your rental back. [SPEAKER_00]: You're like, oh, I feel like I want to. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like the break window. [SPEAKER_02]: You just shut it up. [SPEAKER_02]: You brought get away with that like a couple of times. [SPEAKER_02]: And like, this guy was. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he had a couple. [SPEAKER_02]: He's not going to do this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I'm not saying you're doing it every time. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm saying that, you know, you just do it a couple times, maybe. [SPEAKER_02]: I want to share some really great bands. [SPEAKER_01]: Good news. [SPEAKER_02]: There's I have great news and I'm I'm a little sad that neither of you are going to appreciate this news. [SPEAKER_00]: Wow. [SPEAKER_00]: That's very cool. [SPEAKER_00]: I was. [SPEAKER_02]: I love to talk shit about Fusion 360.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay. [SPEAKER_02]: It's the CAD that I use after I my pirated software of thought works up working because my computer died. [SPEAKER_02]: No, my house burned on that's what it was. [SPEAKER_02]: And that's a whole different story.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I've been using Fusion 360 and I like I like I have a love-hate relationship with it because it's always felt like like kind of [SPEAKER_02]: Really, I don't know how to describe it in words that are polite and wouldn't ruin a potential future of a brand deal with the effort that they don't do that. [SPEAKER_02]: They [SPEAKER_01]: added constraints you're right. [SPEAKER_01]: What is it? [SPEAKER_01]: I don't it's he was right. [SPEAKER_01]: Damn it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: It's what's a really okay. [SPEAKER_02]: It's like it's like if you do computer modeling like CAD I use Fusion all the time. [SPEAKER_02]: I think Nigel probably pokes around it. [SPEAKER_02]: you like make two parts. [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't I don't know what I miss. [SPEAKER_02]: And you want to stick them together.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so when when fusion 360, like you know in the scene, they're like, oh, we're going to do joints where it was like, I've modeled a door handle and I've modeled my door and I would like to stick my door handle into the hole in the door. [SPEAKER_02]: But if you are making something from scratch, joints are terrible, joints are telling you to die. [SPEAKER_01]: Are you telling me that constraints are better than joints? [SPEAKER_02]: Constraints, dude.

[SPEAKER_02]: Constraints work exactly the way that you would bring your works. [SPEAKER_02]: When you're like, let's say you have a switch or a knob. [SPEAKER_02]: Or like, let's say you're modeling your bedroom and you want to put a light switch on the wall. [SPEAKER_02]: the lights which will always be stuck to the wall and it will always be vertical. [SPEAKER_02]: It's like a separate mechanism. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's like stick it to the wall.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then guess what, you can you can rotate it and you can move it around. [SPEAKER_02]: And now you go like, yeah, make it so it never rotates. [SPEAKER_02]: Boom, you lock it vertical and now it can only move around the wall and now you can start with, yeah, I think I want it there, I think I want it. [SPEAKER_02]: Now I want it like a bit and then you can move it to where you want and you will only move in the degree of freedom to that remain.

[SPEAKER_02]: So joints are like, do everything at the same time [SPEAKER_01]: It does not work. [SPEAKER_01]: Select planes, select faces, you create the joint between them or something. [SPEAKER_02]: It's always your idea of using you or the one that pushed for joints at Fusion 360 Autodesk. [SPEAKER_02]: Fuck you. [SPEAKER_02]: Like actually shit. [SPEAKER_02]: It's the most unintuitive feature I've ever used.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you any soft are the person that pushed for introducing constraints and diffusion. [SPEAKER_02]: I love you. [SPEAKER_02]: I use it. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. [SPEAKER_02]: One of the first time. [SPEAKER_01]: It looked exactly how I wanted it to work. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, do you still do like, you know, you hit a lever and that pushes another thing. [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, or is that still? [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't like doing that. [SPEAKER_02]: You can kind of do that.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think you can do that. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_02]: I haven't tried it. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. [SPEAKER_02]: Um, like say you're turning a door knob and it retracts the, uh, you could, I think you can do that. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm assuming you can do that. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_02]: It's just solving. [SPEAKER_02]: And so, yeah, I think you can do that. [SPEAKER_02]: This. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you can do that with joints, but it's a pain in the butt.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, joints suck. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, joints are really bad. [SPEAKER_01]: The joint pipeline, a joint pipe dream. [SPEAKER_02]: Joins are basically like, you know how this works and you know where you want everything to be. [SPEAKER_02]: And constraints are like, I don't know where I want this, but I know that it definitely shouldn't be there. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_02]: Um, I do have a request if anyone on a desk is listening to this and has any sway.

[SPEAKER_02]: Can you make it so that when you make a construction plane that there's not a bunch of different options for construction planes, you just click on a couple of things and then if you've selected enough features that it can then be like, yeah, I know what you want. [SPEAKER_02]: It automatically does it. [SPEAKER_02]: That's good.

[SPEAKER_02]: Because I would like to just say make a construction plane and then select two faces and then make it do a midplane instead of clicking on a button [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's like, it's like when you go to enter your birthday on a website and you have to, like, scroll down, you've to like scroll down for the day and then scroll down for the month and scroll down points on a path. [SPEAKER_01]: What do what do I have here at a vertex?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I just click, you just let me click on two things. [SPEAKER_02]: I click on a line and I click on a face and it's like, oh, you want it touching the, you want it touching the edge and you want it aligned with the face and it just does it. [SPEAKER_02]: Please do that. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, or what about just like in the center of an object. [SPEAKER_01]: So you have a sphere. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: There is no bit plain. [SPEAKER_01]: There's nothing you can select.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, you would have to do. [SPEAKER_01]: You'd have to create a plane at the edge of the sphere and then another plane that you move. [SPEAKER_01]: No, but you'd have to you'd have to create two objects on either side of the sphere. [SPEAKER_01]: And then create a mid plane. [SPEAKER_02]: You'd have to be in it. [SPEAKER_02]: This would be, I don't think you would even let you do this. [SPEAKER_02]: I think you'd have to have an external reference.

[SPEAKER_02]: You'd have to create like a plane that's tangent to the sphere. [SPEAKER_02]: And then a plane that you do a taro-all and tangent to the sphere. [SPEAKER_02]: But I don't think you can, I don't know if you can do that. [SPEAKER_02]: And then a midplane. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: It's easier to just extrude a body into the sphere and then create a plane on that body. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, or use a reference plane. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, it's not good.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not, you know what they should do? [SPEAKER_01]: What if you click on the item, click on the body and like, I want to create a construction plane somewhere on this body. [SPEAKER_01]: And then there's like, it's highlighting the body and like live it shows you as you scroll through, like where, like you could put it. [SPEAKER_02]: Right. [SPEAKER_02]: There's so many things like it, so many things. [SPEAKER_02]: And they did none of them.

[SPEAKER_02]: And this has been saying, but you introduced constraints. [SPEAKER_02]: And I really pretty, it's like one thing that's going to make me just drag my feet out, looking at other cats off. [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, a desk. [SPEAKER_04]: Go on. [SPEAKER_04]: How long are we? [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Bye. [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you everyone who supports us on Patreon. [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, they're in front of us. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, because behind us is too hard.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, don't put them behind that cost. [SPEAKER_02]: But that's more budget. [SPEAKER_01]: Why this guy's paying for it right here. [SPEAKER_01]: We can use his money to to drive. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, actually, this guy's name is going behind us right now. [SPEAKER_02]: All right, we'll see you guys around Patron for the extra podcast. [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to talk about fun things like training your dog house, stupid, just Kevin's dogs.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Kevin watch the video show me a video about like a wolf learning to use tools and I thought that was very interesting. [SPEAKER_02]: We should talk about that. [SPEAKER_02]: I want to talk about how I want to talk about the dumbest dog I ever had growing up. [SPEAKER_02]: He goes around Patron. [SPEAKER_00]: Bye.