¶ Hot Work Permit Training Solutions
Hot work . That's how we're starting this episode .
This is the problems , because that's what we all care about .
Problem episode .
Yeah , here we go .
Here we go . This week's episode is hot work . Hot work . Last week I had about 13 going on at the exact same time while I was there . Okay , so that's different than one . So hot work . Uh , last week I had about 13 going on the exact same time while I was there . Okay , so that's different than one . So hot work failures . So here we go .
One of them is .
I hope I don't have any this week fire watch .
Where do you actually stand ? Because the permit says clear the area 35 foot .
Yeah what I do with the fire watch . Well , so that . So that's the deal . We don't generally , as an industry , we don't do a great job of covering as a fire watch anything beyond . Here's how you use a fire extinguisher .
So fire watch , training Fire watch training would be the first thing , but the second thing is yeah , we want to cover where we're standing , because if I've got someone who's welding in a room multiple areas Do I have my fire watch stand where the person's welding and move with them , but how are they watching the first four welds ?
200 feet of pipe . On a Saturday , we're welding .
We're elevated .
We're elevated .
I got sparks shooting everywhere . Are they standing where the welder is ? Are they standing at the floor or the bin deck or wherever below ?
where all ? The sparks are shooting Are they in the confined space 50 feet in there , or are they outside ?
Well , yeah , yeah Because .
I had a confined space this week . It was 80 feet inside and the fire watch is like I'm not sure where to go . I'm like , well , where's the fire ? 80 feet in and you have to start deciding . What is that ? Yeah , where are we going to have it ? We are going to do some solutions , but it's still at the end solutions are going to be at the end .
This is just to open your mind up also a thousand apologies for so many sips of coffee , because I'm really tired . I'm so sorry , all right , so here we go .
So the fire watch where to stand and the training of it , because that's the problem they don't . They don't know where it's supposed to .
We haven't covered that so .
So this week , for example , we had a fire watch standing there and we decided we actually need three more .
Yeah .
Well , the permit only has a place for one Most do , which depending on where you get your permit .
So is it an internal permit , or did you get your hot work permit from an insurance company ? Where'd this permit come from ?
And is it actually ?
custom for your business .
Second one is permit .
Yeah .
That's the gap we see . It then has a lot of data for what you're going to do .
Yeah , yep , it's not customized enough to really capture all of the information that is currently being litigated . When a place burns to the ground and we're trying to decide who pays the bill , cause that's really what we're talking about here .
That's right . So so the permit , for example , the 35 foot we're going to clear out everything in 35 foot . Great , that's when you start . Yep . I had a 24 hour hot work project this week . Yeah , things are shuffling around All day long . Someone's going to move a trash can over there before they go to break .
Someone's going to move a flannel order and put it down .
Some weird combo gets brought in and you're like what ? But it was clear at 35 foot when it started . We brought in the equipment and what we used to bring it in maybe was on a pallet . It's in a combo , wherever Maybe it .
But all of that . So that permit is supposed to capture how you're going to do the job , the way your company does it .
Yep .
So people always send me . If I'm a contractor , why don't I use the plant one ? Because they hired you to do your skill set . You may have three fire watches needed . You may do hot work a little different than they do . You take a food plant and you get a 10-minute break and you go out there and do hot work in 10 minutes .
The 30 minute fire watch is interesting because there's meat there Six minutes later . Yeah , so is your 30 minute fire . It's not the same . Or a meal . It's going to be different in a meal , then it is going to be outside it can be 30 minutes in a meal .
Oh , you know so , oh well , we'll just barricade an area out here , that's great , but how about you gotta watch it as you're clear the area ?
how about outside grassy areas ? August it's hot , everything's dry .
So the training ? You gotta think about that , because how do we clear 35 feet in some of those areas ? Maybe I need blankets , maybe I don't know . So the point is between the train and the permit , the people are confused and you just have a fire so I think the biggest thing that I would say next is that rolls right into training .
We're using , in some cases , really generic training , that it doesn't cover those nuances , but those nuances are how ?
we burn stuff down and some people like the projects . I've done a bunch of projects last few weeks . That's all these people do for a living . So it's not a one-off , it's a one-off to the plant . I've done a bunch of projects the last few weeks . That's all these people do for a living . Yes , so it's not a one-off .
It's a one-off to the plant , but that's the way they do the job .
Yeah , we brought you in because you're the expert at welding on this equipment or in this setting , so we're expecting you to come with the solutions , because that's kind of why we hired an expert .
So you've got to train your people the way you're going to do it for the job you're doing , not for what the customer or the host does it ? The customer ? Yeah , is it customer ? So here's another weird one . So I've got . Do we got to fill out this permit , do we not ?
And I said to someone why is that always the voice ? It is ?
the voice . But I said to him here's the deal . Great , you don't fill out the permit . All I want to know is , if you burn down the building , is it your insurance or my insurance ? And the guy's like what does that mean ?
I'm like well if you burn it down and you , yeah , yeah , I mean part of it is yes , we're supposed to be filling out the permit to avoid all of that . But the signatures on the permit are saying , as Manager Jen , I validated , this was good to go .
That's right and it met all the intent and I'm keeping it good to go .
Yep , I'm managing that hot work scenario as the supervisor , the manager , signing off on it for the duration of when it's going on . I'm validating the training meets what it needs to for my welder as well as my fire watch . I have validated all of those boxes . It's not check , check , check , check , check , check , check . And then we move on .
They are supposed to mean something and we miss that until it's subpoenaed . And then we realize how important each one of those check boxes really is , that they serve a purpose .
¶ Fire Safety and Hot Work Solutions
I've been at so many locations where they had to leave conveyors running in the area and they will say , yes , everything's managed in the area . I'm like , well , no , it's not , you still have conveyors running .
That gets a spark on it and shoots it down the room .
Just a few days ago , the fire watch was at the opening . I'm standing there's a big cement wall and I look over here and there's sparks coming out because they're doing welding inside this unit . They're sealing the hole . Well , guess what ? It's still a hole .
Well , yeah , until we get it closed .
And I'm like you need someone over there . So is it in the permit ? Is it in the training ? Is it what it doesn't matter ? Is it in the program ? No fire over here is the goal .
So , as a manager , managing that , just think outside the box of what are they really doing , right ? And that helps answer some of those questions of , realistically , what can we normally expect to happen during this and what's likely to happen , and let's start putting buffers .
So that's part of our solutions . Evaluate what you're actually doing for your team , not the way you do the job .
The generic online permit from wherever may not be adequate . You may need to add some more information . I can tell you right now most of the generic permits I see throw them right in the trash when it comes to the fire watch part because they're garbage . They don't tell me anything about when it starts , how long it should be who's doing it ?
how long so solution ?
Did we walk away and check in 30 minutes or did we stand there ? I don't know . I can't tell from that document .
Oh , it's in the shift . Do we really got to do 30 minutes ? Because I don't do overtime .
Or if it's a mill for 30 minutes and then I come back and check in 60 , or am I standing there for 60 ? Did I use a temp gun ? They don't tell me any of that information and in some industries that's vitally important because of the risk associated with hot work , given the flammability of the product . We're working around .
So the the so solutions is evaluate where you're actually doing . Yep no fire risk no fire and then everything in between . You need to get a plan for , because I do . When I walk up I'm like where's the fire going to be ? Is how I start .
I don't start with a permit , I start where's the chance of having a fire and what's all the things we're doing to make sure that doesn't have it ? Yes , permits part of it yeah but all this other stuff's gotta be part of .
Well , and I think a caveat to that is designated welding areas .
Correct .
The intent of designating a certain spot , as a designated welding area means in my world .
Not where you store the flammables .
No , I'm going to say this is just our opinions . Take it how you want , do a risk assessment , interpret it how you want , whoever but this is what we've seen over 25 years . So just throwing that out there . So in my world , a designated welding area means I am keeping that area in compliance with the hot work permit all the time , 35 foot .
I just brought in a box of flammables , like you said a cardboard box or I'm storing all my parts that I'm welding on in cardboard boxes on the shelf . It's not a welding shop or a maintenance shop just automatically complies .
No , we've got to still meet the intent of the permit , because the intent of the permit is we don't burn the shop down , we don't burn everybody's eyes walking past on the way to break or whatever .
So that's this . Your failures are your fire watch . You're not really sure where or what they need . So , get them some training . So if it's a 35 foot area on the original permit and you need a fire watch , you have to start selecting how many you're going to need , and it can't be just visual .
So if I've got three conveyors , then it's going to take me a few minutes to get there . It's about timing more than anything else . You get supposed to put out the firewall . It's small , not by the time I get there . It's small , not by the time I get there .
It's big well , I think it goes back to your fire training too . Are we a fire brigade or we're using two and we're out , right , you know I mean . So some of that has to do with your fire eap . Emergency plans too is like how many are we going to allow them to use before this ?
We're like , hey , this is more than we're really this is not incipient stage anymore . So the goal , like you said , is have a firewatch so you can get on that spark before it leaves incipient stage .
Permit . Go back to your permit , think about the job you're going to do and figure out , between your training and your permit , how to modify and get what you need done .
Yeah .
Whatever that task is Yep , filling it out , but not real . But one of our things we talk about is is that people , like you said , they check it and they don't even realize what it really means .
I think that there's a disconnect in what that box really means so most of the time I see this is always one that's checked is like are the , are the floors clear below right ? And we always say yeah , well , not if it's shooting over a guard rail . You know I mean so we've got to just where are they going ? Where's the sparks ?
going . You can lay down blankets .
Yeah , you can wet the area , you can move everything out of there , you can do all kinds of stuff . Now this last few weeks . You can do screens and shields , all kinds of stuff .
Last few weeks I did a lot of clear everything out and barrier tape it . Yeah , and say no one , come in right now . And if you bring something to it now , we got to stop and we got a problem .
Yeah , and some of that with the barrier tape is it's also a great visual for our fire watch . If we're managing this area , this is your area , this is your house , and especially if we're not , because of the design of where we're having to do this we can't bring in a screen or something .
Absolutely so . That's our , that , that's our top players , I think .
Yeah , if you want to reach out , if you've got other questions or anything , allensafetycoachingcom is a great resource . We've got an entire hot work module on this . So we break down everything in really , really great detail in terms of the program , what should be in it , how to manage it , how to manage the training .
We show you permits on there and kind of break those all down . So that's a great option for you . Otherwise , you can reach out to us at alan-safetycom for some in-person services . We've got audits , we do . We do all kinds of training , no secret , we do projects .
We do a lot of projects .
We do that quite a bit . Otherwise , you can reach out to us on social If you want to just kind of link up with us LinkedIn , joe Allen , jen Allen , you can reach out there . Facebook , tiktok , instagram all of the things Absolutely Reach out to us .
¶ Worker Safety Podcast Promotion
Anyway , if you've got a request for an episode , send us a message and we'll try and get it worked in . Thank , you . Have a great week , everybody , take care . Thank you for listening to Safe , efficient , profitable a worker safety podcast .
If you're looking for more in-depth discussions or step-by-step solutions on all of the different safety and regulatory topics , please visit us at wwwallensafetycoachingcom for web-based virtual coaching and training , or at wwwallensafetycom to book our team for onsite services , training sessions , to order merchandise , to learn more about our team and what services we provide in
the field , or just simply to request a topic for us to cover on our next podcast . If you found today's podcast helpful and would like to support our podcast further , please help us by subscribing , liking and sharing this podcast with anyone that could benefit from the information we cover here , as that helps us to continue to put out this free content .
Thank you .