Bonus

We received tons of emails with great questions, really great questions, questions that have gotten us thinking too. We were touched by seeing how our listeners were following us side by side on this case each step of the way. In this bonus episode, our listeners take them my can get

to ask us questions. We'll also be hearing from the friends we made in Ukraine who are going through unimaginably trying times right now, and we'll share with you some of our favorite anecdotes and stories that we didn't get to share with you during the season. Congratulations, ladies, you made an amazing podcast with an almost unbelievable story. If it hadn't been told. Now, I'm afraid it never would be told. So we're all eternally grateful. Thank you. We

are beyond moved to receive messages like this. Something our listener, Jesse Cohen says might be true if we hadn't told the story when we told it, could we have told it at all? With the war in Ukraine and Father one getting older, we may never have been able to sit atop that hill for three hours and speak to him. Had we waited only two more months, We feel that, I mean was fundamental to telling this story. We were

incredibly lucky. Had we done this as a documentary fifteen years ago like we first set out to do, would Father Went have been ready to speak. One of our listeners, Victoria, got us thinking, this is Victoria, and my question is, how did you Convince Went to talk to you. Well,

that's a good question. That was one of the scariest moments I think in my life, pulling over in that car off the side of the road and Petro handed him the phone, and I think the first thing I said was this is not a complete story without you. And I think how I got them first to open up was reminiscing about old holy Cross experiences and memories and you know, the good things that I remembered from the school, and that got him to soften up a

little bit with me. And then it was just like, so I'm here, I'm in Ukraine to hear you, to hear your voice. And I think at that point he felt some sort of sense of responsibility. I think it was the fact that I said, the only person speaking for holy Cross has been Mehil you know, I think that did it. Not All of your questions had answers that were cut and dry. Why do Father Damon and Basketball work at a supermarket? I'm confused. If they own property in a hospital in Ukraine, why do they need

to send money to win? Do they rent out the hospital? Well, Petro actually mentioned that they have a lot of debt because the hospital was so expensive to build and the equipment they bought, it's like hundreds of thousands of dollars of MRI machines, cat scan machines. There's a lot of maintenance involved. And I think because the hospital kind of failed for them, they owe all this money. And and I guess in Ukraine, uh, it's harder to make a living,

especially right now. So I think that's why Father Damon and the steal work at a supermarket in North Carolina, and that's how they help out with with expenses. I do find it very strange, to be honest, that two months have to work on a supermarket, because usually like the monastery maintained to you, but I guess they don't really have another way to make money. Well, they don't have followers, and they don't have you know, mass or donations,

but also school. So and ask your your question is a great one, and we we originally don't have a clear answer. We are stumped. Other questions were questions we'd already asked ourselves and the attorneys, but it never seemed like anyone really ever knew the answer. Hi, Melanie and Paula. I was wondering if you asked, why did Petro get adopted by Father Went? And was it by Petro's choice?

Hi Mickey, thank you very question. UM. I think that um, it was definitely the Father Went idea, and Petro agreed. Not even the investigators really knew the answer to this question. At first, the assumption was that there was something to do with their immigration status, and that being UM a legal son of one of these priests would make it

easier for them to become a citizen. But gay Levine even said she asked immigration and they said that wasn't the case, that they were already on student visas, and that that wouldn't really have made a difference. Um. I guess the other theory was inheritance, if father wanted to make sure if anything happened to him, that Petro would inherit whatever they had. But what's really strange is that

they took about poverties. So a monkey isn't supposed to own, you know, property or or have you know, assets, or or an estate. Your concerns and questions about Mike always moved us, and we told them how much people out there wondered about him. One question in particular, we're really happy to be able to answer. Mike said he brought the knife because he would cut himself. I was wondering if he continued to do that. The answer is no, Uh,

Mike does not cut himself anymore. Now he has a different way to let out his emotions, and we were definitely so happy to see it. He writes he writes short stories. Um so whenever he feels anything that's you know, negative or things like that. You can sometimes hear it in the story right now, like some of his subject matters. Sometimes it's a little dark, a little dark. Yeah, but for me, it just feels like that's his new outlet

and it's so much healthier. And yeah, he sends every single story to us, and we really want to share it with everybody. Uh soon, we want to. He wants us to share the stories with you guys too. And I just remember even from the last visit to seeing his arm like it's obviously he's been a cutter for years, you know, but they're healed and it looks like it's been Yeah, they're just heed for years, very scarred. Yeah. Up next, we take a look at a question that

more than one of you had. Hey, Paula and Melanie, big fan of the podcast, loving it. Thank you so much for taking questions. I was curious if while in the Ukraine you had a chance to visit or speak with any of the other Monastic candidates, or if they have spoken at all since the original investigation. Yosip declined on I sent him on WhatsApp message he said not interested. He was very polite though and like he said, I'd rather be keeping my experience as at holy Cross private

or yeah. Ivan never responded, neither did Basile. Neither did. We found Basile on Facebook and we sent him a few messages and nothing friend requests. And then Sasha. There's just we can never find Sasha ever. Ever, there's just no trace of him on the internet. The only one, I mean, we we did talk to Eliah. Um Elia has been really, really helpful and its perspective has changed a lot throughout the years. And and Petro obviously, and

this next one is a great question. And when we've wondered about ourselves, I'm wondering if sister Michelle was aware of any of the alleged abuse. Well, we asked Mike directly, because that was always a theory in our minds that maybe that would explain why he killed sister Michelle, was that she knew about the abuse and didn't do anything

to protect him. There was another theory, the wilder one back then, that was that sister Michell knew about the abuse, she was going to say something, she was going to report it, and then father went like put Mike up for it and like made him kill her, which is crazy. That's pretty definitely not true. Definitely not true. I think

Also they put Sister Michelle really really far away. The convent was on the other side of the football fields and all of that, right, so if something was going on, she probably wouldn't have seen it and non nobody would have shared it with her. Yeah, she wasn't the confidante my person were Mike would feel comfortable talking to her about this kind of stuff, or or any of them in asked the candidates, I don't think. When we asked Mike about this, he said he didn't think Sister Michelle

knew about the abuse. He said he didn't see her witness anything, and he certainly didn't talk to her about it. Another question we got from a listener was more about my own experience at holy Cross. They wanted to know what it was like to go to a school run by father went and Father Damien. And it's an interesting question because I started to think, what was it like for real, every day to day to day. And one of the things that stood out to me was confession,

for example, like in a Catholic school. I don't know about other Catholic schools, but having to do confession with your own principle, or with someone that's in charge of your discipline, Like, how can you confess, for example, that you cheated on a test or that you did something like that. So, for example, my confessions were never very very thorough because they were a lot of things that you know, I'd have to leave out for the sake of me staying in the school. I don't know if

there would have been That is very strange. Yeah, it is very strange. And you know, there was a line, there was a line. It was a longer line to confess with father went That's what a lot of students remembered. And then father Dami would also confess people, and nobody wanted to confess with him. Um, why do you think that, I don't know, just the vibe, like kind of the creepy vibe that a lot of people described. Um, and yeah,

they were super intimidating. And you know, I felt like that guy was the pope or like similar, because I was young, and because my parents respected him, and all the parents respected him, and you know, he was just important looking. And when he passed by, floating down the aisles the hallways, oh my god, people would just make way, you know, almost bowing, just intimidated. The day the war started in Ukraine, our listeners started writing to us immediately

after a break. We'll be addressing those concerns. Welcome back to Sacred Scandal. I'm Paula Barrows and I'm Melanie Bartley. At the start of this project, we were already warned that it was only a matter of time before the Russians invaded this beautiful country. But now having just been there and experiencing that amazing place firsthand, this war hits hard. And since we took you all on our journey to Ukraine for this podcast, it seems like a lot of

you feel just like we do. Here's another listener. This is Chas Bayfield from Tasmania, Australia. I'd love to know whether you've been in touch with any of the people in the Ukraine who feature in your podcasts and whether they're a k because I'm sure a lot of your listeners are very concerned for them. Our friends in Ukraine have been sending us messages, so we'll let them answer

for themselves. Here's Elia Hertzock. The man asked the candidate that we're sure you know by now my family have been affected by the war which was started by Pudgin. I have my business in Czech Republic, so when Russians started bombing our cities, I was out of Ukraine as usual. On the second day, after the military troops entered, I decided that my family has to leave Ukraine and joined me here. So now we are together at our home

in Czech Republic. Also, some of my friends and acquaintances, after they have been sent their families, wives and children to safe places, went to fight. Even as a soldiers, all of us are actually ready to stand against the killers from Russia. Regarding my plan for the future, for

now to stay outside to f create. I'm helping here our people, women and children who had run away from war to find their shelter here and helping them with registration of all necessary documents to stay, transport or anything else. We are gathering humanitarian aid and sending it to my country. And I believe that this war will be stopped and not on the stop, but we will be in against this evolves from Russia and me and my family and other families will be able to come back to peaceful

Ukrainian nearest future. That's what we want. Julia, our translator who we immediately became close friends with and who made every interaction we had in Ukraine. So Steamless also sent us an update. My name is Julia and I'm Ukrainian. And the recent events and the bar was truly truly heartbreaking and terrifying. Every morning looks like waking up and checking the news, seeing what cities were bombed, seeing who survived died, and that's something really really, um really heartbreaking.

We live in the most western part of Ukraine, so we were lucky enough not to get bombed, but I can't say the same about so many places. We have family all over Ukraine. Some live in the occupied territories, some are fighting at war, some are getting bombed and just praying every day to survive, to survive, just one day at a time. My region is receiving many, many refugees and theyre arrived like fifty people. And that's our city is one hundred thousand people. Um, many many people

are coming. Just yesterday we received one thousand kids who were evacuated without their parents because there wasn't just an opportunity like this. But on the better side, if I can say that with all its happening, our people are as united as as possible, and it's truly truly breast taken to see how so many people are connecting and helping each other. So yeah, glory to Ukraine. We also wanted to know how Mike was feeling about this whole

thing and if he had heard from his parents. Actually got a videogram and emails for our parents and what are they saying, how are they what's their their mood?

My parents are all right, of course, because they are really worried about, you know, everything that's going on in it's really difficult times right now that they are going around in Ukraine, and it's really sad because as you can see on the news, you can see a lot of a lot of people displays, a lot of people are dead, a lot of you know, children are dead. And do you think Bert Wurkovina Bistra going to be

safe for now? You know, you know nothing, nothing for certain, but you know, in my my town is really one of Sisi's places right now because it's located far in the west, right on border with this point. You know you've been in my town, so you know you can see from my house you can see the point, so it would be really easy for your parents to kind of go over the border if they need to in the last minute sort of emergency. Right, yeah, they would

be most I'm sure. I'm sure the Polish would open up. Remember back then in the nineties we had you know, reservoir Polish border and guys, you think those very personal, you know, go and just watch all the border, you know. Yeah, yeah, but I'm sure you know, uh yeah, right now Poland is really good, you know the claim right now, they're really helpful. We have been in constant contact with Ria and Yuriko Fell and we thought we'd read you one

of the messages that they sent us. Hello, Paula and Melanie. We thank god all is quiet and that there is no shelling. We live far from the border of Russia and Belarus. Many refugees flee from the war through our Transcarpathia region. Terrible battles continue and keep all Ukrainians think the countries that help us. When we saw the co Fells, we talked to them for hours and it's crazy to think only a few minutes made it into the show. But there's a lot of stuff like that that didn't

make it. In coming up after the break we'll be sharing some tape that didn't make it into the show. Stay with us, m Welcome back to Sacred Scandal. I'm Paula Barrows and I'm Melanie Bartley. For the sake of the story and keeping things concise, we had to leave out a lot of tape that we thought our listeners might find interesting. So in this last segment, we're gonna

be playing some of that tape for you. During our trip to Ukraine, we met up with Dr Marianna to Korshinska, a Ukrainian doctor who was hired by Mike's defense team to evaluate him. She spent time with Maria and Yuriko felt as part of her evaluation, and she gave us some great cultural perspective we hadn't heard before. The situation with his father was very bad for him. Yes, so he told that he wanted to escape from from that family as quickly as possible. And this possibility to go

to this school or something like that. He really wanted to be a priest, even named a monk, and it was for him, it was very serious and for our people. You have to understand, America, it was something amazing. So some heaven, yes, so to get there. It was such a big luck, and I'm sure for him it was like he'll be there, he will become a priest and everything will be We'll be just perfect. Here it was a hell and there will be a heaven. Yes, and it was it was not only for him like that,

it all for mostly for all of us. Yes, So it was like that America is something so here I went to America, Yes, and our thing was destroyed. We've always asked ourselves how Maria and Yurik fell. Never suspected Mike might be being abused, even when he and father Damien came to visit and would share a bed with their son in their home. You have also to understand such things has happened there. In our mind something absolutely impossible,

believe me, homosexuality here it's it's maybe now. It is more like it is possible to be in our time. In his time, it was something like absolutely not impossible to be, and especially am a priest's it's absolutely absolutely so. So he was something destroyed in him, something broke inside him, for sure, it was psychologically. It was absolutely Going to Ukraine was truly one of the most intense trips of

our lives. And one we will never forget. But speaking of trips, remember Art Nanny, the lead detective working in the murder investigation, Well, he was on a trip to Vegas ones and told us the story. We found pretty strange, so described brought me a gift to go to Vegas. But who did I run into? I ran into Petra and one of the other monks. They were in Vegas airport and Petra came up to me and said your name, I said, ye, and you introduced himselves and said, what

do you guys are doing over here? They're over there game a matter of fact, I think he was sitting on a slot machine. I returned to No. Six, So it was almost five years after the fact. But I'm looking at them that they were supposed to be monks, so and they're going to Vegas. What happens the veggest days in Vegas? But but I was It was just kind of blew my mind that I have the monks in Vegas, you know. And there wasn't a lot of conversations because I didn't really care for pet or anyways.

I believe he lied to me from the get go, and he could have been lied to me in them particular point too. We found this story so odd we decided to ask Father Lou, the priest and canon law expert, who you heard from an episode seven, his opinion on monks taking trips and gambling. Okay, so yeah, even monks there allowed to go on vacations. They might have set places where you know, the monks go, but because you become a monk, you don't cease to becoming human being.

All right, So when I want to go on vacation, all right, I'm a master diver. All of my vacations were diving vacations. I'd go to the Caribbean, I'd go you know, the Pacific, I'd go diving. They were very, very expensive. If I wanted to go on vacation, that's fine. Cannon law allowed me a month's vacation a year, but I had to pay for it. You know, the monks in the monastery, are they entitled the vacation, absolutely, but

the monastery would have to pay for it. And it's always with the understanding that what one did on vacation was at least not antithetical to religious life. So I could go on vacation and go diving. I could go on vacation and maybe do some recreational gambling where it was legal. But I couldn't go on vacation and working an abortion clinic, all right. Or I couldn't go on vacation and involve myself in you know, the back room poker part or and gamble in a place that was

going to be rated by the vice squad. But how do you reconcile I guess, uh, the vowel of poverty with gambling or going to Vegas or staying at a nice hotel, for example. Well, you know, poverty means I don't own anything. It doesn't mean that I have to live a bereft life. If I take a vil poverty, it doesn't mean I have to live in a hovel and wear underwear with holes in it. I'm allowed a basic standard of life that it's commensurate with human dignity.

Staying in a nice hotel in Las Vegas. You know where's that on the scale? Recreational gambling in Las Vegas is legal. It's not immoral, all right, We'll shoot a monk gamble. I don't know, but I'm a Diosisan priest and I used to go to Las Vegas. But that was my money. Okay. You know, if I had a bad run at the tables, then I didn't buy cigarettes the next month, whereas the monk is is drawing from the common assets, and therefore there's got to be another

like level of awareness of his use. So am I gonna sit in judgment as someone who goes to Las Vegas and stays in a decent hotel. Well, no, all right, he didn't do anything illegal, He didn't do anything immoral on the face of it, and just staying in a nice room, there's nothing scandalous about that depends on the local law and the local monastery. I control my finances. Those who belong to religious orders and take the vow

of poverty do not. I mean, if guy's got a roll of quarters and goes to a quarter machine and feeds them in one at a time, you know he spent what he would have spent on renting a DVD. But if I see a monk sitting at a dollar machine and he's putting five dollars at a time in pulling that arm sixty times an hour. At five dollars a time, it's three hundred bucks an hour, and he was at that machine for four hours, I would think to myself, is this the best use of your monastery's assets.

During the show, we heard a lot from a Holy Cross parent, Marietta Fernandez. I've kept in touch with her since our interview, and she's been one of the sweetest and warmest people we've ever met. And she seemed to know Sister Michelle better than anyone we talked to from Holy Cross. Here's the story she told us about her that really paints a picture of who she was. One day when we were um, we were walking through the halls and we were talking. We were walking towards the

chapel area. I loved to go out there and just look at the beautiful painting outside the murals. And she had to fill out some paperwork that she told me that she was going to go get it and bring it to me, you know. And I was waiting for her in that area and she was coming back and she had a smile on her face, and I said, so, what's so funny. What are you smiling about? And she said, no, I'm happy because some of the linen that I wanted to lay out for the Sunday service came out really well.

It ironed out really well, I go, so that makes you happy, and she she laughed and she said, yes, that makes me very happy. It makes me happy when I am in the apple and I am preparing for services. It's a feeling of accomplishment. And it was almost like gratitude that she was grateful that she could do that. I felt that, I felt that coming across very clear, that she was grateful. You know, she was happy. The

linen came out great. A few months ago, we had the chance to speak with Ukrainian priest father Taras, who was flown to Miami all the way from trans Carpathia to see Mike back in two thousand one. Okay, my name is Taraslowska. I am a priest from Ukraine Transcarpasia. Right now I am helping here in the United States in Pennsylvania Arisbon's and bisont In Catholic Church. How did you How did you get connected with with me Helo Kofel? Did you know them from back in Ukraine? Not really.

I was sent by my bishop and he asked me if I can travel and here in his confession and bring him the Holy Communion. So what's what I did? So I was at him in prison. What were your impressions of Milo when you first met him? Well, I feel sorry for him, and so, yeah, I confessed him. I cannot talk about the confession, but you know, he is a nice looking guy. I feel sorry, you know, and when I hear that they give him twenty five

years or whatever, I feel sorry. So let me ask you why why did you need to do this confession with him? Wouldn't it have been father went job as as his priest? Probably? Yeah? But I don't know why why we should ask me to do this? And you know I was, I was open to do this. Isn't it part of being a priest kind of uh? Mainly for giving somebody for their since, even if it's murder, even if it's the worst thing you can possibly imagine.

Do you think that it would have been basically his his job or it would have been that the right thing to do for him to at least go visit him and try to understand what happened? Probably? Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, is fourteen years old is old enough to make them a monk? Or were the circumstances of poverty or you know, everything that they were going through in Ukraine kind of influenced them to come. What are your thoughts on the age that these boys were coming.

I think they was too young. My country be considered that you are adults having eighteen year us under eighteen, you are under jurisdiction or whatever your parents. So I presume the parents killed the permission, and then the priests and then the young guys. You know, they hear America I said end of the world, and that's why they decided.

Some of these boys that were monastic candidates, you know, they would travel for these trips, and they would say that each priest would sleep in the same bed with one of the monastics. Right, is that normal just to save money and things like that. That's completely strange for me and unusual. Usually each monk or each priest their own separately. Do you think God forgave me halo for what he did? I know that God is so merciful

that he is forgiving all the sins. His love is so high and so deep that we are not able to do so many sins or so big or so terrible sins that God will be not able to forgive us. It doesn't mean that we have to do sins, but we have to know this that God is. His love is like ocean, no end. That's why we are called to respond to his love and to love him. We could keep talking about this case for another decade, and we probably will. This podcast may have ended, but our

bond Mike will always be there. We'll continue to visit, will continue to write and chat on the phone. We know a lot of you have expressed how much you care about the people in this story, and for that we thank you. Having your support gave us the confidence to keep moving forward. So stay connected to us via social media and email. If you want to hear more about Mike, read has short stories and get more updates on the people we've all come to care about in Ukraine.

Although Sacred Scandal the show didn't have the ending we hoped for, this story is not over for us and we will continue to pursue the truth. Thank you all again, from the bottom of our hearts. This has been Sacred Scandal. Sacred Scandal is a production of Exile Content Studio and partnership with I Heart Radios mikel Dua podcast network. Sacred Scandal was created and produced by Melanie Bartley and me Paula Barrows, our senior producer is Dennis Funk of Written

and Air. The executive producers are Rose Red and Nando Villa. Additional production by Alvaro Sespedes. Our production assistant is Immani Leonard. Original music and final mixing by Patrick Hart, and special thanks on this episode to Brian Robertson and Michael Martone and a huge, huge thank you to our families. If you'd like to reach out, email us at hello at Sacred Scandal podcast dot com, and you can follow us on Instagram at Sacred Scandal