If you, as a senior coach get beaten to the chains room by the chairman of the board and the board, grab your keys, go and grab your bag and get the hell out of there, because you're done.
I'm John Ralph and I'm Glenn MacFarlane.
Welcome to Sacked, a podcast that explores what really happens when the ax falls in the AFL world. Will take you behind the scenes with some of the biggest names in football and find out how they found out their time was up and who pulled the trigger. Sacked AFL is made possible with the support of subscribers to The Herald Sun. To find out more, go to Heraldsun dot com, do au or download the Herald Sun app at your app store today.
Here it is the life and times of Paul Ruse from Beverly Hills in Melbourne's East. It was no wonder Paul Ruse became as close to a movie star as the AFL gets when the man who would only become coach of the Swans thanks to a grassroots campaign and then led them to a seventy two year drought breaking flag just three years later, was announced as coach of the Demons Red and Blue fans breathed a sigh of relief. It was as if Tom Cruise had appeared in a
blockbuster movie. Ruse was the bankable star. It wasn't going to be allowed to fail from here. But how did the kid from don Vale get there?
Well?
As was the way in the early nineteen eighties, thanks to recruiting zones, his fate was predetermined. Paul Ruse was always going to be a Roy boy.
You sort of didn't have a choice in a sense, like you know, when when I was playing, I was playing footy and playing basketball and grew up in don Bar which was great, and you know, just everything was about sport back then. So he just played my whole week with basketball, tennis and football. And then because of the zoning system, which I think, I know, there's a lot of conversation. We might get to the academies later on,
but I didn't really think about a boy. You got invited down to a footy club and you were so excited, and the great thing about that you jump in a cab with three of fort your mate, so you play at Beverly Hills with or you're playing against the Donnie so Donnie Hyight. So it's such an easy time. Jumping a cab don Val don Va High School, head down the junction Oval, jump in a cab, you come home stovin McDonald's, get the taxi driver added onto the bill, and then the way you go the way you go home.
So there was no real thought process about it. It was just if you were good enough. And the reason I loved that system is going to capture everyone. Like everyone in that zone went to fitz Royal. I mean the list in under Nineti's was probably forty you know, preseason training was probably fifty or sixty. So that's so different to the way it is today. I mean you've
got total of probably eighty players drafted Australia White. We're talking about sixty players from the fitzroy zone getting drafted every year. So again, didn't really think about it. Thought, yeah, most kids would go down play some under Ninet's that'd be pretty cool, and then I'll better work out what I'm going to do. When I started at the AMP, so I already had a job. But yeah, you didn't really think too much about it really, to be honest.
He rippers through just the highlights of those early years. So nine eighty two. You're an eighteen year old. Your first game against Sydney. You play alongside a sixteen year old and Gary Purt the number one jumper. Did you get that from the start? The big names you know, Conlin, Wilson, McMahon, Quinland. You know, what are the early recollections of that time?
Yeah? I mean the early recollections are getting the training and looking around and I guess probably now because there's very few players at training when I turn up at you know, Melbourne, Melbourne coach, Sydney coach, because your lists are very strict, But one of the big things you remember is how many players were there. I would say, I don't know. I would say at the start of pre season there's probably seventy to eighty players training. Like
that's probably the thing that hits me now. And then you know, looking at a coach like Robert Walls and going I got for Carlton, you know, like suddenly confronted with your legends and icons and standing next to Bernie Quinlan and Gary Wilson. So I think the enormity of the occasion hits you really quickly. Then I was at the jump presentation on my first jump presentation nine eighty one,
and I was with my girlfriend at the time. I think my parents were there and they were counting down because as you guys know, and back then it was counting down from number sixty whatever, you know whatever, eighty seven.
So that should shows you how well I was.
So you go along prepared to have number fifty nine or something like that, and I remember going fifty nine, fifty eight, forty five, thirty twenty five. Trouble here, I thought, because there are stories, guys, you would know, there are stories about guys turning up a jumper Knights and getting delisted on the ninth bacause the chairman of match committee got the call and come down. Anyway. Soon's sitting there going wow, I don't know what's going on here. This
is pretty weird. And I got number one, like from a first time on the list. So that was that number one came about. And I'm still shocked to this day as to why I got it. But then you mentioned I mean, you know, I remember my first practice game.
You know, it's an intra club game, and as I said, there's sixty guys, so you got plenty of guys to play two teams with about twenty players standing on the boundary line waiting to get on, and I remember, you know, I remember waiting to get on and Blue versus Red, and I think it was I think it was Rossy Thornton tackled Mickeyn, you know, and I'm a sixteen year old waiting to get on the ground that excited to play, and Mickey wouldn't shot the ball up, so Rossie tried
to grab it off him. So Mickey punched Rossi in the head. I think it was Leon Harris, and I think Leon Harris ran in and so punched Leon Harris in the head. And I'm gone, hey, this is an intra club practice game. I'm not sure I really want to go.
On the go on the fielding me, I mean, And there were great people right and again, you know, reflecting on Maddie Randell's passing and Rossie Thornt's passing, it's when you go to the funerals and it's not about wins and losses.
And I think that's I probably realized that when I was captain and then I went coach to Sydney, But going to those funerals and seeing that the impact that they had on me and all the people in the room. I think you realize how lucky you were to go to the Fitzroy footy club. It's just had an enormous amount of this fantastic human beings playing for that club.
So on the eve of one Hundreth game in nine and eighty six, you teld Brian whilst she's now the AFOLS corporate affairs boss formerly herold Son, if fritzro has the opportunity to go to Brisbane, they have got to do it.
You know.
We asked Els toll insist, you know, tell us the times and people say, now, how can a team go out of business? But you know, for those that are younger and watching listening to this podcast, what was it like? Hawpercurious was it? And why was eighty six a tipping point?
Yeah? So I think it's about six or seven games to go, and we were on the I was driving past the other day when I was in Melbourne. I pointed out to my son, I said, there is the that's the tennis court on a Sunday morning at Wesley Coley down Punt Road. And I told Tyler the story. I said, that's the tennis court that Leon Wiga walked on with about seven rounds to go in nine and
eighty six and said, guys, we've got three options. We can fold, we can merge with the Melbourne based Cluber, we can go to Brisbane, and we all voted to go to Brisbane. And then I started having meetings with myself and Perty and a few other started having meetings with Ironically, I think it was Ronnie jophas Joseph who was running one of the syndigoates. So we started having meeting. We won six out of our last seven games we played,
and we got to the primary final that year. And then probably the worst thing that happened was that hecron I think it was a building company came in and saved this at the time. And when I say the worst thing that happened, because I think they went broke not long after. And we really struggled, guys, We really did, I mean struggled to party players and it was a great club and everyone did as best as they possibly could.
I nearly got traded, Heardy did get traded, Richard Osband left and it was just it just fell apart from eighty six and I think again you asked me if I had won the premiership in eighty three. If we had gone to Brisbane in eighty six, I think they had the two Jarmans, Mark Leslie. I think they had three or four of the best players in Australia all
lined up who I think Mark Leslie did. The two Jarmans didn't go, And I really believe it would have been a powerhouse football club from day one because we would have kept all the great players that eventually left and we would have added some really good players. So it was a really big mistake in hindsight, but I know why. The Fitzroy faithful continued to do what they did and we all worked really hard and it just fell apart in ninety six.
Just in eighty that's saying me. You're talking about nineteen eighty six to Brownlow Medal. You're going to the Brownlow Medal as favorite.
The hottest of favorite.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's quite incredible.
And your poll exceptionally well through the year, maybe not as well as most media pundits thought you would. And you're lose by a vote and you don't get I think most everyone the last game, I think everyone thought you were going to get the three votes.
He didn't get any, and a.
Kid called I think it was that Mark Dwyer from Style a few, the Corot Flyer Style a few towards the end of the year tell us about the pressure of going into a you know, a brown lockout and how stiff were here then.
Yeah, well, I mean there's a little bits the same that there is now. I mean, you know, most of the time we go into brown lows, and even back then you go on to browns because the Age had award, the Herald Sun had award, Inside Football had an award channel set.
Yeah, so there's everything I think, didn't your Rosie you pretty much want anything that year.
Yeah, I think I won all the awards that year, and I think I won the MVP of the Players Association. So you're going in there's a there's a favorite or clear favorites or whatever, and I remember I think, yeah, there was one vote behind. They always leave the The last game was Fitzroy person. Yeah, fitz Robert Sydney. I just remember this likecus that happened yesterday. So last round Fitzroy v. Sydney that there was so many cameras come over.
They pointed at me, and I'm sitting there going I think I'm going to win this, This would be pretty cool. One vote, two votes. I think Smirky dw Ive got three votes. I can't believe how quickly boys the cameras left. It was one of the manhole opened up and they just disappeared. Like I've looked around and going, wait, what's going on? You know? I finished the finished sequels a third or second or because there was diesel and dip of both wanted together, but they disappeared.
That versus Sydney Swans, Sidney Swans, that's right. One vote. Fitz Roy G. Perch two votes, fitz Roy W. Logans three votes.
Equal winners Williams of the Swans.
Deep Pierre Dominica of Hawthorn, both on seventeen votes.
Bernie, but also remember who was pretty tall and I didn't know these boys that well. I think it was and there's Craig Bradley and Stephen Kernan came over to me later in the night, which was really nice of him just to say, look, Brusy just wanted to reach out. And then I remember going to Fitzroy function. I was
probably more disappointed for the Fitzroy fans. I was for myself because they organized the celebration, thinking, I felt really bad that going back there, not without the Brownlow metal, but you realize, you know, you can't control anything, and it would have been obviously nice, but that's the reality of the other Brownlow really.
Glen mcfhalan's research is, as always is extraordinary. This is a quote from Lion's captain Paul Ruse. How can clubs expect player loyalty when things like this happened? The shock of the merger with foots Gray as a playing group was absolutely blindsided. Give us a reflection on that.
Ladies in gentlemen, the VFL Commission and the boards of the Fitzroy and Footscray football Clubs are very pleased to announce today the formation of a new force in VFL football called the Fitzroy Bulldogs.
Yeah. I mean there's a lot of you know, a lot of stuff that happened during that period. You know,
it was pretty difficult. It's sort of hard to put it on the context now because when you're going through it, To be honest, it's normal, you know, when you when it's happening, because as you guys would know, is like we would there were things like we would get paid first of March, first three payments a year, so first of March, first of July, first of December, and I would bring up every payment time and I'd say, look, and I was a pretty good player, and I would
bring up and I think I was captain in eighty eight, so it wasn't like I was Joe Blow the forty second plan on the list, and I would bring up the accounts and I would say, oh gods, you're going to get my money, ol Ruzie and your way to week, and it just became normal. And it's funny. Even the
mergers just sort of became normal. But probably the worst part out of that is we became like Footscraye really galvanized, and they really sort of got money together and they sort of got their act together, and it just seemed to be one other hurdle that fits I couldn't overcome. Whether it was right or not, I don't know, you know, I think there was a thing. There's a photo, no Mackie, you might Dougie Hawkins with a jumper on the front part of the Herald. The irony of that when I'm
first met my wife. You love this story. So I first met my wife Tammy in San Diego and she asked me what I did. I say I was a professional surfer, so anyway, I couldn't get away with that because it was it was the era where in Australia, in Melbourne you had to wear like suit pants and a colard shirt to a nightclub. So I thought the same thing would happen in San Diego. So me and Brett Stevens looked like two accountants going two surfy pubs.
I'll walk into Tammy's gone, There's no way known your surfer. Have a look at the way you dressed. Anyway, I then told her now I played Australian rules football, and she didn't believe that, so that she arrived in Melbourne the day the Herald Son really had the photo of me on a front page with Dougie Hawkins, and then finally realized, yeah, maybe I was telling the truth, but
it was. Yeah, it was. There were huge stories. But because again putting in context, I think because the way the media is now compared to what it was then, it was sort of one big story in the Herald's done, one big story in the age. It wasn't like Instagram, you know, all the mediums we have now websites all that sort of stuff. So it was big for that moment, and then you'd go to training and you train and
you play on the weekend. So it didn't it sort of didn't carry over, which is quite it's quite different to the way it is now.
So I suppose I was going to ask you, you know, if the AFL should have done more and Ross Oakley, you know, killed a football club and I moved on. But it feels to me like you're saying it was you know, it was dying, and it was dying, and it you know, it probably didn't need to be resuscitated at times, and what happened to it was the best outcome.
I think they should have gone in eighty six. That would have been the best outcome. But I I think not many people know this. I've said this maybe privately, and I think publicly. We were going to boycott a preseason game one.
Year wow because she is done?
Because great question. So there was a lot of senior players coming to me insane Rousie, We're hearing we're not going to get paid, We're hearing going to get fold. It was the start of the season and Ralphie because the reason I'm mentioning this because you said, did the AFL did enough? We actually went to the AFL and asked them from a manager, Damian Smith, if they guarantee
our contracts. They said they wouldn't, so we actually as a group, there's probably ten or twelve or maybe more senior players that got together and said, guys, this is not good. We could actually fold and not get paid. So the club, I think the club got pretty shitty for us doing it, and we came to a compromise. We end up playing, but we were legitimately not going to turn up for a preseason practice game. So I don't think the AFL did enough, Ralphie. But was it
inevitable anyway? Probably? I mean, if you look at South Melbourne, it was sort of the same, wasn't it really, And it wasn't until many many years later and when Plugger went up there and it seemed to get a bit on. Hafey did a great job with Diesel and Jared Healy and but that was a bit superficial. I suspect just had a lot of great players and private ownership. But I don't know, it's probably hard. It's a bit harsh
on the AFL or the VFL. Back then, no one really knew what to do and I obviously want to expand it. And when we look back on it now, it was probably a good thing the Brisbane lines, but I think if that they should have gone in eighty six and that would have been you know, the Brisbane Bears were terrible for many many years because it was tough for them. But if fitz Roy had a relocated I think that would have been a really good result back then.
So Freeman was an option, Adelaide was an option. There was an Adelaide trade there and then at the end it was Sidney became obvious to.
Yeah, well Adelaide couldn't get anyone to go to fitz Roy. So Robert Shaw wanted me to come. And I knew Tony McGinnis really well. I knew Greg Anderson really well. I played Gaelic football with him, knew Chris McDermott really well. I was pretty excited to go to Adelaide. And Ronnie Joseph was fantastic because Ronnie Joseph was working with Sydney and he was amazing. He would bring me all the time. So Rusie, it's probably not fair for you to come to Sydney as a thirty one year old by yourself.
But we think if we can get Tony Lockett, we'd love you to come as a package. We love you to come with Tony and we think that'll make a big difference. So he was amazing and I was talking Adelaide at the same time. Free I was interesting. Jared Neisha was an interesting cat. He was pretty funny. But so those were the two main ones, was Adelaide and Sydney. And as I said, Ronnie was great. He talked me through the whole thing. But in the end Adelaide couldn't
get anyone to go to Fitzroy and then Tony. If you guys would remember, remember Tony like at the end for hour the trade was done right before the deadline, which is not unusual now, but back then it was like, where's Tony Lockett. I'm the biggest name in the game, Where's he going to go? And I I don't know where. It's two o'clock, but it won fifty nine and fifty nine seconds it was Tony Lockert and r J was on the phone to me at two o one and said, look, mate,
we'll get you in the March draft. I said, no worries, I'm going overseas. I said, yeah, you can't start training with us anyway. Come back in January, start training with the Center. We'll pick you up in the March draft. So yeah, so that's all how that all happened. Yeah, in the year in which Fitzroy eventually emerged. Their last game in Melbourne and of course over in the West. Yeah, you're ahead in the Grand final, so Glenn Freeborn position to move there, David King act of violence and all
of a sudden the ebs away. But it was an amazing year for you, and it was obviously a great Grand final, twenty five touches for yourself. Yeah, it was great. But I didn't go to Sydney, to be honest, thinking I'd playing a Grand final. You know, I sat there on the bottom of the ladder. Obviously Tony came, yeah this is how this is my second year. So ninety five I went there, ninety six I Rodney. He did an amazing job, like to get us to a Grand Final.
So when I signed with Sydney for three years, I thought, look, if we can get to laying finals, that would be amazing. But we played some incredible footage like during that year we beat North Melbourne at Princess Park. We just belted them. We came back to the SCG and there was forty five thousand people. I think it was Plugger down one end,
Gary Ablett down to the other end. It was just yeah, but North, when I look back on it, probably the thing that North was just the better team, you know, I think, to be honest, I mean we were a bit unlucky. I think they got to about three goals up. I think kel came out of the center, went to hit Plug on the chest that just dropped short bounce went down the other end. It was a big two goal swing. But yeah, again I just think we were
beaten by a better team. We gave our best that year and we had some good young players, you know, probably some really undervalued players in that era. You know of Mark Bays, Darren Creswell Andrew Dunkley who were senior players when I arrived, and then a good crop of young guys coming through, and also some under Kevin and Crag O'Brien Stuey Maxfield as a player who went on to be a great captain. So he was a really
good team. But I think North were just better, you know, at the end of the day, to be honest, and then you come back and you become an assistant under Rocket, who was just one of the most progressive thinkers there.
And then you know, eventually in two thousand and two Rocket resigns. How did you find yourself to become the caretaker coach? And when you had that eight game stint? What what your goals for that eight games and what we are aspirations in terms of your coaching.
Yeah, it was such a weird time. And I remember the Geelong we played. I think in Rockets last game, I reckon we were three goals up with five minutes ago, and I thought to myself, Okay, he's going to get through another week, because I've been around footy long enough and as you guys have to know, when yeah, the wolves are at the door, and they were at the door, there's no question. So I sort of thought to myself, Great, we're going to buy the next week. We're going to
get through this game. Everything'll be fine. Oh my god, how wrong could I be? Anyway, they kicked four or five goals in the last five minutes and I always say this sportsman's night or if I'm talking, you know, to a footy club or yah having a joke. I say, look, if you as a senior coach, get beaten too the chains room by the chairman of the board and the board, grab your keys, go and grab your bag and get the hell out of there because you're done.
It's over.
You're not coming You're not coming back. So anyway, we get to the rooms and I've got ah, here we go. There's Richard and I think it was Cole Siri and kel Templeton. Oh my god. It was just and so the players had to buy week the next week, so I think Goodyear was due to fly at that night. There was a function on. It was sort of everyone
was sort of do their own thing. Kelvin Templeton from memory, wanted us to play a full scale practice match the next morning, and I'm going, this is this is not going to end it well anyway anyway, So right Rodney, and at this stage, to be fair to Rocket, it's sort of he didn't want to do it, but he had to because it was almost like if you have to keep your job, So he called a training session for the next morning. I think that the ring goods
you at the airport and get him back. There was a function on that night upstairs, so I went to the function assistant coach, and I won't mention the group of players hay gone, boys, not, we're not We're not turned up the train in the morning, I said, guys, you have to turn up. Nah, we're not turned up, said guys, you have to. I have to talk him into they weren't going to turn up the training. I had to talk him in the turn. Anyway, they turn up, we get rocket does the scarecrow. I don't know if
you've walls. He introduced this back in Wavey one day. So you've got to put your arms out parallel and you've got to hold them there for as long as you can. So it's called the scarecrow. And as soon as well as soon as you did the scare coke, he's done, he's done. It's the funniest you can see because the knees start to go to ground, and then the chest starts to go to ground, and then the shoulder starts to go. So basically the guys are lying
on the floor trying to kick them arms up. It's hilarious. Anyway, So Monday comes around and I'm sitting in my office. My office is next to Rockets and I get a phone call. I think it was Steve Quatermain First and Quarters rings me and goes, oh, Uz, you just want to get a quote about Rocket giving it away. I'm like, mate, I don't know what you're talking about anyway. About twenty minutes later, Johnny Blakey means me, and Johnny goes, mate, what's happening to Rock And I heard he's given away?
I said, mate, I don't know what you're talking about anyway. I get out of my office. I walk into Rocket's office. He's dead set five meters are that? I said, mate, I've just had two phone calls. Are you going to you've given it? You're getting given away? Because yeah, this afternoon, so I found I find out through a reporter and it's an inmate. And then the next couple of days, we honestly, the club honestly didn't know what to do with.
At one stage we had a discussion around I think it was myself, Steve my Laxos, and John Longmy with the assistants, would we share it? Will we do it collectively? And then Dennis Carroll and Calvin I think it was, and and Richard must ask me, and then I had to agree to do it for the rest of the year, which I did and then coach ten games. So it was a really weird, strange period. And that was probably the first time I'd ever thought, do I really really
want to coach an AFL team? Because when you're an assistant, yeah, you're sort of able to sit back and watch and you know, and then you don't really need to make a decision until maybe a job comes up and you say, if someone rings, you're going to apply for this job. But really it happened so quickly. It was just a crazy time when I look back on it, and.
It rolled on. Then you got on a momentum.
You clearly had a real close connection to the group and of the supporters as well, which worked really well. At what stage did you think, I think Terry Wallace is a big chance to get this job?
Well, it's interesting again, you probably got more clarity when you look back because when I was coaching, and we also did something with it. We took our young blokes down to Melbourne to give an experience of because obviously we didn't play finals. We took out young bikes down to experience like Melbourne and what it was like to play finals. So I was sort of still working, you know.
So this noise was going around Terry Wallace and that and that, and I also remember and then there was a Choose Ruse campaign like you said, and the players who I got on well with and we won six of our last ten games, so.
And embracing poor Rush, which is trying to figure who was in the there's a picture Patly. Absolutely all the players got around him.
Went Bruce Ruce Ruse and then doesn't send a message.
Everything that's going well, but there was sort of this dark cloud. This Terry Wallace was and I knew Terry pretty well, you know. And Terry was managed by my same like that managed me, which was which was pretty weird anyway. But I remember Neil Cordy rang me and and Chords rings me. Goes Rusie when he when you're presenting to the board, and I said, odd, no idea, what do you mean he goes? I was told you were presenting to the board. And I said, well, I'm
been told that he goes. He literally said to me, goes, mate, I think you better ask. So I rang Andrew Island. I said, Andrew, do you want me to present to the board. He goes, oh, I think it'd be a good idea. I think they were hoping that I never presented the ball and they can say, wow, we couldn't give him the job is he never gave a presentation.
Cords Thankfully, Cords found out that I was supposed to present the board rang me and then I put this presentation together, and then I mean there's just look, Yeah, when I look back, you sort of feel for the club. They were trying to do the right thing. They've got Andrew alland who's just an incredible, you know, football act him, and they've got a coach in Terry Wallace that wants
to come. Now. I've still no one's ever told you that it's absolutely true, but I think we need we know enough now to suggest there's probably a certain amount of truth to it. But yeah, it's a tough position of the club. They've got Paul Ruse, who's coach ten games, and they've got Terry Wallace sort of things. So if I'm in that position, and I think I think everyone's
happy have turned out. So that's that's another That's another good part of it as well, including Terry, because he probably got a shitload of money.
Yeah, he did. And so for those who don't know, you know, he was contracted to the club. He's never actually admitted it. He's got a confidential out of agreement. So have you ever asked Terry or have ever asked Richard or Kelvin and said, hey, did he actually have this contract or is it just we just accepted that was what happened.
At the time. They publicly they denied it, and you know, and I never really, to be honest, it didn't worry me. It was sort of like I've always been a bit about things happened for a reason. You know, I've never asked Terry. Yeah, people have joked to me, and Terry's been on the radio and joked about it at a time. So look, good luck to him, to be honest, And I've always got on really well with Terry. Great player, great coach. There's never any animosity between the two of us.
And as you can see internally, even in the footy club, we moved on really quickly.
Was there one tipping point you reckon ROUSI I mean, obviously the crowd, the people power went out, didn't it in a lot of ways. Was there one tipping point that you wreck and got you the job, not just wins the losses, but there would have been in utiny.
I think it was when I've talked to Richard Collis about it, not directly about Plow, but I think it surprised the club how passionate the fans were, and I think he he credits that with the turning point of the club, like in terms of the popularity, you know, the love of fitz Sidney, you know, as a really tribal club, because we know the tribal nature of the
VFL and where it came from. But I think he even people that preps at the time were thinking, hope Brews he goes away, and I say that respective for Richard, because we've got a good relationship. I think he would credit that, and he said that to me before that. He really credits that galvanization of himself and the fans and the chows Ruse as really a turning point for the footy club.
It caused everyone to revisit this amazing quote here as well, this is you talking about Terry Wallace. You know they told me they hadn't spoken to Wallace directly. I'd be shattered if that turned out to be untrue. Isn't it amazing?
Just the lies and the bullshit that goes on in football? Hey, so those early years, how close were you when when Wayne Carey moved on, of course in disgrace from North Melbourne, he flew into Sydney and you had to chat with him, You and John Longmoy, how close were you to securing the great Wayne Carey. Yeah, we went through a process and the process included speaking Anthony Stevens and so we
did a lot of due diligence on that. You obviously had a lot of respect for Wayne as a club, have a lot of respect for, you know, for Anthony Stevens and that football club. So we did a lot of work around it, and we actually felt probably a good fit was Sydney getting Wayne out of.
A high profile album. We've seen what that had done to Tony Lockett, the profile and all that sort of stuff. So we did an enormous amount of work behind the scenes, in front of the scenes and all that sort of stuff. And in the end, you know, he chose to go to Adelaide, which was which was fine.
And what did STEVEO say about it again. I mean, you guys get sort of hung on the no dickheads policy anytime there was anyone who borderline character there, But what was Steve O's view on it?
I look at them in their private conversations, But we wouldn't have pursued you know. We again, we've done a lot of research on a lot of different players, and you know, I think that was one of the strengths of the football club is you know, if there was if there was something that happened to a player and needed to be looked up, we'd always talk to our leadership group. They would do some research as well, do you want to play with this particular player, what do
you think, et cetera, et cetera. If there's any other conversations that need to take place, we would always we would always have those conversations, and we would never pursue a player to the detriment of the culture or to the detriment of the football club. So we would we would always have those conversations.
We're surprised how quickly it turned around.
Like two thousand and three, at three quarter time in that prelim final, you're only a couple of points behind banged up Brisbane the year after, you know, you lose to Securita in a semi final.
The wheel turned very quickly, Husey, didn't it.
Yeah, you're right, Like it's funny when I again, it's only when you're sort of reflecting it, whether you're writing a book, you hear it is the book I wrote or whatever, because at the time when you're doing it, you're just trying to win. You're just trying to get your squad together, you're just trying to get good coaches and all that sort of stuff. But it probably started
Round five. Were one and four going in the round five against Melbourne at the SCG, and we were picked by fourteen of the sixteen age riders to finish bottom of the ladder going into two thousand and three, So it wasn't like we were Yeah, we were seen as the worst team in the competition. And I can sort of you know, Tony Lockett second coming had finished, Paul Kelly and Andrew Dunkley, Mark Bays, Darren Kresl had one year to go, so there's a lot of great players
that had finished. And then I remember we were ten points down against Melbourne the following two weeks we had Collingwood and Brisbane Lions are two Grand finals from the and we kicked ten goals in the last quarter. We beat Brisbane and colling with the next two weeks, so really, I mean even like that quickly, and then we started playing some amazing footy. Again we got beaten by the
better team, but we were going really well. We had a good record against Brisbane and credit to Lee, he sort of changed his game style a bit against us in the prelim final, which was a great coaching move, but they were too good for us in that game. And then yeah, five, we built on the momentum we had over those first two years and the players gave themselves and yeah, so it did happen, probably quicker than anyone thought. Really, can I.
Read you this quote from two thousand and five.
I don't like at all the way they're playing football, but that's just a personal view. Would be fair to say that in the early part of the season we saw some games that weren't attractive, and I think they've been described as ugly. Andrew Demetrio, how much did that get up your goat? And even today does it still sort of ring and hurt you?
A little.
It's funny. Like My first immediate response, and I've said this before, is can you imagine the CEO of Coca Cola saying don't drink Coca Cola in New South Wales, drink PEPSI Like, it just seemed a really bizarre comment. We were the only team at the time in Sydney.
I was really surprised that no one held him accountable from the AFL, like, and I also knew that he couldn't coach us once and I knew that I couldn't run the AFL, So I was really clear on So it didn't really affect this much, to be honest, and being I remember being on one of the big sports shows not long after he said it, and legitimately the host said, Ruisie, what did he mean by ugly footing? Because it's a rugby league town, it's a physical town.
It's a town that likes toughness, et cetera, et cetera. So look, it didn't really affect us at all, to be honest. Did we use it at times? Yeah we did. And did we feel like the AFL was against us? Probably at times we did. Yeah, there's no question about that. But I don't think that comment. It was just really really bizarre thing for the af L CEO to say, we just knew we were out of form. We knew, you know, we were what we were capable of. But yeah, it was it was a bit of a weird time.
How did you use it? Is it there sticking up on the walls.
Not so much that, but we generally felt the way we played impacted the umpires and that comment, which which that was probably one part of it. We did feel that, you know, there was times where we were umpired differently. It was interesting. I can't remember which coach it was.
Came to coach maybe in six o seven or whatever after we won the premiership and made a really interesting comment doing the review and said, guys, it's funny now that I'm here, I actually realize that you are umpired differently. And that was that was really now. I don't think it was intentional. It's a bit like what's happening now and stuff like that. So this was this is not a criticism of the umpires, but umpires are human, you know, we want the ball moving, we want this, we want that,
we want goals to et cetera. So that was just a really interesting comment coming from a coach that had come from another club. So no, we didn't stick it up on the walls and use that false motivation. But I think the players felt because they're on the ground, they know when a Freddy kicks paid and not paid. And again I'm not suggesting at all it was intentional, but that was the feeling that the players got, So it was really more just they felt it. We used
it and didn't make any difference. Who knows.
Really, it's a subconscious thing more than anything else.
I suppose in a way like as you met I think you got to find didn't you in that final series for sending it was a Barry Hall over to the umpires at one stage of the game. And strangely enough I found out here that in Grand Final week you actually met up with Jeff Gieshen.
Do you remember that. Yeah, we had a bit of it umpires coach at the time.
Sorry, yeah, yeah, we had a bit of a blow up because I don't think I wanted the umpire that they were going to make from the prelim final or something like that, So we had a bit of a We had a bit of.
A blow up where you have the blow up where it was this.
I think it was on the phone first, and then it's again it's a fair while ago now to be fair, Look again, I can't speak highly enough of the umpire and departments and even Jeff. I mean, it's a tough job, it really is. It's a really hard job, you know. And they're human, you know, they read the paper, they know what's going on, and they're you know, there are one hundred percent impartial. But it's like you and I like people say you have favorite players. Of course, you
have favorite players. You guys have favorite players. You have favorite teams, you know, And I'm not suggesting the umpires have favorite teams. But the umpires are human. With the Brownlow Medal is a great example. Now the Brownlow Medals are marketing. And I'm I'm not suggesting the best players don't win, but you can you normally you erl Goldon and was a Rosie last year, didn't vote in the first half of the year. They came home like a
house on fire. Why because the umpires are reading the paper. We know. And I'm this again, this is no way, shape or form criticism of the My interactions with always the umpires apart from a little Blue eyed with Geese was fantastic. Rowan Sawyer's all the umpires department fantastic. Can't I just can't. I can't speak highly enough of them. But yeah, you'd always have. You've got to fight your territory, as she was one of the best at that. He was, he was the genius.
So you do it the hard way. So you lose the Eagles in Perth by four points. The Nick Daekoska and the Nick Davis game. Deekos could do that as well, couldn't He certain, but I don't believe it. We've had a lot of the likes of Cam Mooney, you know, I remember being at that ground and just watching the tears of Cam Mooney. But so, you know, obviously extraordinary achievement there. But I think about Brett Kirk, you know, with Nick saying you know you was after a cosmic game.
It takes about your your recollections of that extraordinary four goals, you know, you know, flash of the flasher in a heartbeat. Yeah, look, it's still I believe it's the best quarter of football ever played in the final ever. I think because probably the start of the game, we're all surprised that the ground was wet.
It was really weird. We turned up to the ground and the ground was wet, and I think I think their CG denied they warded it, but they clearly warded the game because it was a really low Yeah, we were getting enough Chris for low scoring games anyway, but every goal was a premium. It was just a real slog from memory. And you're right, yeah, I think Dabo's opponent ran down, set up a goal, put them four
goals up in a really low scoring game. I think it was eight goals to four or something like that. And then it was probably the way that he kicked his goals, like one contested mark, you know, an unbelievable that snap that he kicked from the stoppage. There's very few players that can kick that. He's running away from goal, snapping it across his body, goal height through and how many let's be honest, how many players have you seen that could have kicked the goal to win the game.
Probably ten twenty back blurt. You know, it's terrified air, isn't it.
It is it's rarefied air for him to be able to do that. So look, it was it was just an incredible, incredible quarter I'm not even a quarter. Twenty minutes of football. Four goals completely dominated the game, and again I think it's the best quarter finals football I've ever seen.
Any second Sons made a.
Goal, blas seem any set them into the domination.
And obviously gel only set up perfectly behind the ball with a throw up what twelve minutes out Jason ball and all of a sudden, your guys just dragged them away. So I'm going to take us through how many times you walk through that or tactically, how you set that up for it to happen at the perfect moment in a massive final.
Yeah. Look, that was just one of the best moments of coaching, not just for me, but for all the coaches, the player. We've worked on that for three years. You know, what are we doing this situation? But you've got to realize, this is one hundred and twenty minutes into a game of football. This is guys that are fatigued. This has got nothing to do with the coach at this particular stage of the game, and it starts before that. Leo Barry goes third up. You know, we knew we had
to score. There's two players. I think it was Luke Amblett and Barry Hall knocked the ball back into play, so every single player, we had eighteen players all following the game plan and then you're right. You watch that vision and you watch every Sydney player do it, going to exactly the same spot and all of a sudden snides blocks for Nick Davis, the player that we wanted
to have a shot a goal. Bearing in mind Jason Balls had got a free kick from Henry Playfair who grabbed out of his jump, but that would have been that would have been easier to kick a goal.
I been very controversial as well, exactly.
And then Bali just taps it down and then Davo does his stuff, So yeah, look, I think that's the value of practice, you know. And then we did it again in the in the Grand Final, which was amazing and it is your finest coaching era. I mean, that is a collective you know, to think this is the
time where we got everything right. This is what crystallized the essence of coaching one percent, you know, like when I started coaching, absolutely and how do you empower the players, how do you get the players to react on the field, And I remember even Ralphie. Going back to nine and ninety nine when I'm overseas and I go to the San Francisco forty nine ers and I watched them train and the precision of their training it was off the charts.
So I can even link that moment in Devo's goal to that two hours I spent at the San Francisco forty nine. It's thinking, why aren't we training game situations more? Why? Because that's what they do do. They just practice over and over and over again. So everything you're right, everything, every coachishing moment collectively up to that stage. Everything we started with the Blood's culture and the leadership group and empowering the players, you know, lead to us to Dabo kicking that goal.
So Steve Cordaway calls you up and you didn't know it at that stage, but he started your senior coaching journey and then Leo Barry you star wasn't a bad way again to you know, to cap your first Grand Final victory.
You don't appreciate commentators into you you win a premiership.
Or who was it?
I've seen it, but I can't believe it. Anthony Hudson, of course, like those I think those moments. They're going to be great moments, regardless of if it's a silent movie. To be honest, Leo marking the ball, but I think they're definitely added to by the comments. Yeah, yeah, Hardo's comment and Quarters and you know whatever. Those moments are so but yeah, I'm glad he didn't drop them. I'm glad he didn't drop the mark or it is wouldn't have been. So I've got to give more.
Than to punch, didn't you Rosie?
Is that right?
Or we only?
I was big on that two hands after the ball. So as much as I give Quarters credit, I think Leo's got to take the majority of this threat on the left.
One last roll of.
The dice failure.
Star.
Don't know where in.
Premiership all history is over for the first.
You get up and say here it is.
It's the longest premiership drought in history, over seventy two years. What's the one story out of that day, that crazy day that still sits with you?
Probably probably with the one story would be I didn't realize how big it was going to be, Like I had no idea, like I think, you know, yeah, I'll get up there and at sixty eight years at sixty nine years, at seventy years, so everyone knew it was seventy two years. I don't think that was a secret, but I had no idea how important it was to people. That that's the thing, that's that's my takeaway, and that's everyone. That's when I walked from the grand stand. I was
really lucky when we coached to coach. When the when the coach spots you walked through the grandstand to see the tears, the fans to get on the ground and to see that, yeah, that the collective, you know, the guys to put money and they were all on the ground to see Barry Round and Dennis Carroll and then Richard Collis and bast Sellers and and then the next day at the at the South Melbourne and then back
to the s CG and then the parade. I think that thing that hits me is how much that premiership meant to so many people. And I still get people to this day thanking me. You know, my dad passed away, my mom passed away. We went to the MCG that day. It was the greatest day of my life. Football means so much to people, it's it's incredible.
I tried two games coaching Sydney sixteen finals. None of those were victories. He took off. You went to Fox Footy, you got approached by a lot of people, and then one Friday night I said to your Rouzie, just for the fifteenth time in a row, okay, you were interested in Melbourne and you said maybe, And all of a sudden, Matt brought on another amazing chapter in your football career.
Why maybe you know it would be a There was a lot of money involved, but it was also i'd imagine a really strong reason for you to come back to coaching.
And Eddie was on too, wasn't Eddie was like Nelie fell off his chair and then it sort of blew up. But I was always really honestly, I'm on the couch when I was doing it, and all that sort of stuff. There was a couple of things happened. Andrew Iland called me in the office. I was coaching the Swan's Academy. He said, Rousie, we can't pay near as much. I think it was like a fifty to sixty percent paycart.
And again my relationship with him was fantastic, but it was probably a signal for me that my time was up. At Sydney. That was the first thing. The second thing was probably I got approached by Brisbane to do that. And then my parents were getting older and obviously we've been away from Melbourne for a long period of time, so then you got to think about out, you know,
your mum and dad and things like that. And then Peter Jackson started calling me, and then I met with the Melbourne leadership group, had a really frank discussion with them, and then a couple of them were texting me, and then it was my son, my son I was reading now the text to Dylan. Dylan goes, Dad, you have to go and coach him. You know, they deserve more than what they've had. And he wasn't being critical of Melbourne. He's probably more being complimentary with me rather than rather
than that. So there was a sequence of events that happened prior to me taking on the job, and then the mechanics of the three year deal and succession plan and all those sorts of things. It's a fantastic coup for a club going as badly as it is possible to go.
Paul Ruse says he finalized his decision yesterday.
The worst and so the sound of the more interests I got because I'm aware it's going to be difficult.
The Demons can't quite believe their luck.
This is probably the most significant thing since that fellow called Rombarasi Junior over there.
He left the club in nine and sixty five.
It's the toughest job in foot well, the Demons. We've had PERTI jaction here and he's talked about he's talked about the challenges of Essendon where he found all of the salary cap gremlins. But he's also talked about getting to Melbourne. And I used the quote a lot. He talked about, have we got anyone here that's in the top quartele?
You know?
So we've got to lead people in coaching or administration or all those things. And so that was an extraordinary battle. How scarred were those Melbourne people by the Mark Neild coaching situation, by the tanking hangover. I mean he must have found a fan but a player base that was just in shock, almost yeah.
And the good thing was like Peter and Glenn Bartler didn't sugar coad it. So I wasn't like I thought I was coming into a place that was better than what it was. So I think that was really really important because sometimes you can sell a situation to a coach and then the coach gets there and you go wow, Yeah, because I knew what Sydney was like because I was there, so that was okay. And I knew what Melbourne was going to be like because Peter had painted a really
clear picture. But yeah, it was a wounded club, There's no, There's no question about that. You know, top to bottom, you know, board, staff, players, fans and had it really tough. So absolutely it was a it was a wounded football club and we had we did a lot of work to get it to where it was after after three years.
So he's the headline so all his years on what's the Kelly for Christian Salem and Dom Tyson deal? Where is that on the ledger here?
Yeah, it's funny because we had the unnamed recruiter talking about it.
Recruiter. We love an unnamu.
I love the unnamed recruiter and I think out of Kelly and Salem, there's only one Premiership player out of.
The two of them. Yes, that's right, that's right, right.
That's not been a bit harsh, is it?
I know?
But that doesn't always reflect the quality of the player.
No, no, no, no, But what it does do it reflects the strategy of the football club. I'm a massive Kelly fan. And but again I've said this a hundred times. In our list, Billings was number two or before before Kelly. I did my research with nick Ya Laughlin and Ty Kenelly. So people think it was Kelly for it actually wasn't. But what I realized, when you're a footy club that needs to get off the bottom, one player doesn't make difference. Jason Horn Francis goes to North Melbourne, that's not going
to make a difference. But if you can turn one pick into three and four and five, that's when you're making a difference, you know. So that was the philosophy behind it, And yeah I've been a bit of a smart ass, but the philosophy is to get more than one player, not to compare a player with another player, because whether it's Kelly or Billings, yeah they would have been really good for the Melbourne Football Club, but at that time we had to take a risk to get
more than just one player. And again I think it's just been proven. You know, the philosophy. If you throw that in with all the other things because it's easy
to you know, it's easy to pick one thing. But I think when you look at the philosophy of the Melbourne Football Club within that period, when your factor in Bernie Vince and Daniel Cross and Clayton Oliver and Angus Brace and Christian Petrarca, even like guys like Tommy Bug and Sam Frost, you know that had a significant impact on the club while it was really struggling to win four seven ten games. That's the philosophy that I think
sometimes gets missed. And when the unnamed recruiter just looks at the name, then the unnamed recruiter's got no idea what he's talking about.
So I assume it's twenty year welfare Blokes comes to you and says, well, christ supertrack is Torney's acl and look how did he do it? I think he was trying to dunk a basketball in the backyard ring tell us that story. And how much satisfaction do you get from, you know, from drafting those guys who are going to win a premiership. And of course Petracka and Oliver so instrumental in that third quarter charge against the Western Bulldogs.
Yeah, we'll track at his ankle Duncan the.
Last night I did. Okay, sorry, but let the truth get in the way. Have a good story.
Ja c l was the training, which was really sad sort of thing. Again, that's the education piece, Like I think Track was pretty clear after I said it to him, you know, but that's the education. Please. I think doing Ken did his shoulder of water skiing as well. I think that's the standards that we've tried to implement, getting young players in and getting them to set standards. Oh look, I was when sitting there watching the two twenty one premier year in lockdown in South Melbourne. I was so
proud of the footy club. I sent that many text messages afterwards, you know, and got a lot of text messages from people that were really appreciative. So I'd send text messages to all I as I said Sydney, to Angus and Christian and all the players that i'd coached, Max and Simon Goodwin and Josh Marney who it was great. It was amazing because you know how much work goes into it.
More went on at that North Melbourne. So you moved to North Melbourne and I think it's fair to say you had a big role in getting David Noble lacrosss standing football administrator. It didn't work there for whatever reason. How challenging was that given it didn't seem to be the right fit, or maybe he wasn't the perfect person for North moment at the time.
Yeah, they asked me to get involved in the recruiting process, and probably the thing that struck me. I don't think it was that surprising, but and you guys would remember this. I mean, because so many interim coaches had got jobs, and coaches were really reluctant. Assistant coaches are really reluctant to throw the hat in the ring, you know. We rang around so many coaches and ended up with three
candidates David Noble, Robert Harvey g and Syracusa. So I think that's it's bad for the league, really, you now, I don't know what the answer to that is. I reckon it goes back to the Tony Elshaw Brian Royal days.
It goes all way back then. So we thought he was a really good fit, had a great pedigree, and probably that club needed more of a figurehead rather than a technical And I was only involved in the football department for twelve months, and then Ben and Marfa, who was great I had a good relationship with everyone said look, David doesn't want you involved anymore. He thinks like, yeah, it's a part time person. You know, you're not here often enough. So that was okay. So I was gone
from the football department up for twelve months. I thought the second half of the year his first year, they was starting to play some good football, starting to get some structure, starting to make some gain. But it seemed to implode really quickly, didn't it.
What's your life like now you're in Hawaii, Honolulu, You've got a Performance by Design company. Tell us a little about that, and tell us a little bit about what's next or if anything in your football journey.
Yeah, it's good. Look, I mean, my wife's American Tammy. So we bought a place here about twelve years ago, and we were always going to leave. We probably just left about twelve months earlier than what we were because of the lockdowns in Melbourne and we had to get an exemption to get out. So we've probably got forced out a bit, you know. So we came here, we've set up here. Yeah, Performers by Designs, the leadership company which I love. So I get back to Australia fairly regularly.
Now I've got a green card, I do some work with the Sun. We've got a father son leadership called the King's Table, which I'm really enjoying that I've enjoyed. I'm doing a podcast now for ABC Live, which is a daily podcast, and probably think I love about that is it's longer form, so it's not you're able to discuss things because as you guys know, the media has become so immediate now and it's take a slight bite
out of that. So when you're doing your own podcast like we're doing now, you know we can have a really good conversation and we can put things in context. If you take things out of context, it's pretty hard. So I enjoy that because we have half an hour a day and we try to keep it to two
or three sort of things every day. Get back to Australia, as I said, get back to the US mainland, and I really enjoy the little involvement I having footy, and love the leader ship stuff, and love passing my experience on to fathers and sons and executives and people that want to learn, and obviously performs Bodies Iron. We do a lot of work with a lot of great teams.
Thanks for listening to Sacked.
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