Mal Michael - The Unlikely Footy Star

I think about the when they got away. That kept me up for a while. That one did it. Yeah, I'd think about it right up until, yeah, easily ten years after. It was only when I saw my family. My family came into the rooms and then I just I just started crying and I felt that I'd let them down.

I'm John Ralph and I'm Glenn McFarlane.

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The Unlikely Footy Star with Melmichael. You'd think the odds of a kid born in png and raised in Brisbane becoming a three club three premiership winning star would almost be zero. Mel Michael was a skinny kid with no promises and even less to live on when he arrived at Collingwood as an eighteen year old. But he ended his footy career a fearsome fallback and a member of

You had sacked, you retired a couple of times, you were traded for JEREBILLOI. But you know, it's a historic and a pretty extraordinary football career.

Yeah. I always knew you when to leave. I never outstayed my welcome and I had an uncanny knack of when I knew that the time was right. I said, that'll do.

You must have loved your footy career. Tell us there's obviously a couple of great moments. What's the one thing that you think about is that the premiership medals?

I'd imagine, Yeah, the premiership medal sit high on the list of accomplishments, but I think just the road travel to get there was probably probably something that I look back on and I think it's it was pretty good accomplishment. Say that about myself. But I was just talking recently about when I came to Collingwood when I was eighteen. I literally just got dropped off at the airport. Rick barr and picked me up, took me to the club and said this is where you have to be tomorrow

And there was no promises either, was there. There were no promises of what you were going to get and you were living at your grandmother's for a period of time.

Then yeah, that's it. So it was basically the old chuck you in the pool and you either swim or you and I was lucky that I got lucky actually, and a few breaks went my way and I was able to survive, but a lot.

Don't you talk about your journey anyway, Ralph, and I was speaking about it recently. The kid that was born in PNG your dad went up there, you know, as a young man after getting a degree and moving to Brisbane in nineteen eighty as a three year old, who then goes on to play AFL football and at the highest level and has some amazing honors to go with it.

And that's what a great story. And I think that's why I feel that the accomplishment of that of the journey is it sits up there with the premierships because it's just not a traditional road that one takes to play AFL and to make it even just to put a bit of contact context into it. At my junior club, ken Moore Juniors, like no I would have ever heard of this football club. I played juniors there with Max Hudgton and he went on to Plats and killed it.

Did you play coming up up against a kid called Jason akermanis growing up in Brisbane as well at a Whisper that you may have either played with him or played against him as a kid.

Well, we played against each We played club football against each other, Akar and I at the same age actually, so we played a lot of junior football against each other. But all the Repers native teams we played with each other.

So you're a sixteen year old forward, you get to morning side, I drop for the Grand Final. What do you like at that age thinking to yourself, stars in my eyes, I'm going to play for Brisbane. Brisbane Bears at that stage, Yeah, where are you along your career?

Apath?

I would have killed to play for Brisbane at that stage. It was I just looked up they at the time, Brisbane had brought in Alistair Lynch, Andrew bues Damian Burke, all these absolute legends of the game. Yeah, and it was really it was really unlike Brisbane to secure these guys. Usually they got players that were either rooted or they were just stuffed and they were literally it was like

But it felt like you had the talent at that stage.

Of course, yeah that's it, but I was. I did a couple of summer trainings with them and I thought, you know, with a bit of luck, I'd be able to get one of the what they called at the time the local the local spots. But that didn't turn out.

His own selection. I think that that's scenario. What went wrong do you think, did you? Was it just the wrong time, the wrong place, or what do you think went wrong that they didn't see what we all got to see the years later.

I think there was an influx of very good players that all came through. So the guys they did take was Jason Akermanus Clark Keating. I think Steve Lawrence was part of that program as well, so they took Brett Voss, brother of Michael. But the other guys that were training in that little group was myself, Plint bisl Hamish Simpson

Yeah, And from that perspective, like you get a call from Collingwood, is it Ricky Barron gives you a call? You'd obviously shown you where's in representative footy and the like, But so how did Collingwood get in contact with you? And obviously you've got a Collingwood connection with your great grandfather playing a game at Collywood all those years ago.

Yeah, he played one game, but I think he loved the Beers team much fair enough to my.

Dad, except that one game, I'd be happy you just could rest on your laurels after one game, I reckon.

Yeah. Actually, Dad was telling me a story about him, Robert Michael Senia, and he had a nickname but I can't think of it right now, but it's something along the lines. He was called the leather Skin something and I think it's because he just drank too much. But I don't think footy and drinking went well for him. But what was the original question?

I know I was just going to say with that, like, you know, how did Collingwood come back to you? And sort of was it Ricky Barram who gives you a call, who was doing a bit of recruiting with Piees back then, and how did the call come through?

Well, I was playing at Morningside and what happened was when we go out to do the warm up, there'd be this cameraman setting up on top of the on top of the clubhouse or the grandstand, which was quite unusual for us up there at that time, and I didn't think anything of it. And then a couple of weeks later there was another cameraman, another cameraman, another camera, and then eventually the coach, Marty King, said to me,

So you get to Collingwood, you're on what's called a supplementary list. Is that right before the rookie list? At that stage you battle through I think you're sixty eight kilograms. You talk to times about, you know, going to the airport for games and you couldn't afford to eat, like you know, I don't know, you're probably on absolute mega rations at that stage in terms of your salary.

Yeah, I turned up sixty eight kilos ringing wet I was. I was really worry because I was a swimmer growing up and there wasn't an answer. Fat on me if you look at me now double that late. But yeah, it turned up. I was pretty fit, No fat on me, but I had to play football in that time, you needed to have some weight behind you, you just the

And forty that's tough, my mortgage.

Like, I'm no accountant, but.

To get anything apart from that, like, it wasn't a stipend. It was just you got paid to play, that's it.

And you didn't have your license or didn't have a car at the time, was that right, And so you had to get the train like sometimes you know, four or five in the morning to try and get to where you needed to get to.

Yeah, I had a license with no car, right, Yeah, but it was still in the day's pre professional era. So we trained and did wits in the morning and that was at six am, and then you'd go to work or study or whether and then we'd train in the evening. So for me, coming from Ashburton meant a four am wake up to catch the five o'clock train and I just roll in the door at Collingwood at like five to six.

Yeah, what was it like rolling to the door at Collingwood's the most famous footy club going around in that sense, and they were probably struggling a little bit at that time. But you know, there's some pretty famous names through there and pretty dilapidated old facilities there. But it must have been amazing walking into Big Park.

I loved every second of that. I like the fact that it was old and it had all the history. I know a lot of clubs are moving away from their spiritual homes, which I don't agree with, to be honest, I think clubs, especially young players coming in, need to experience that experience, the history of the place. So I loved it from day one. Because I was from Interstate. I hung out with all the Interstate guys and we formed a little family and that was really cool as well.

You had some tough times, you know, Nathan Buckley was there, Danny Frowley was there as well, and assistant coaching capacity. I think it's sort of it's written that, you know, they basically saved you at times when you wanted to go home.

Yeah, definitely Danny because he was my reserves coach. Plus he was also a fullback and he kind of groomed me too and taught me and train me to, you know, to play fullback. So and he also lived in Brighton and I was. I lived in East and Kilda, so he used to drop me home all the time. So when I heard of his passing, it was quite sad. But yeah, Nathan came and saw me a couple of times, and it was never about I didn't want to play.

But they convinced you clearly.

You know those times when you thought about it and you just realized that I suppose they reassured you that you know that you're still on track.

The AFL reserves was an actual competition back then and that's why I started playing in So we had to place the Sydney reserve grade team in Sydney as the curtain raiser to the main game, and Danny Frawley said, I want everyone to meet at Don Camillo's at North Melbourne and then we'll go out to the airport to catch the to catch the plane to Sydney. I came up with some excuse of why I couldn't have go to Don Camillo's and I said, I'll just meet you

It's incredible when you think.

About what the industry is like now and how tight it was for you, and you know how close it was to going. I think it was was that Trent Hotton got into a little bit of trouble there at one stage and may have been pushed off the list, and you got put onto the list. Tell us about that, and was a Gubby Allen who was the man who told you, you know, you're on the list here and you're going to play.

Yeah. So the supplementary list. First, the second year at Collingold Day they introduced the rookie list and it was quite a to be honest, I don't know what that actually meant, but in today's terms, it means that it's a supplementary list, but you can play. Whereas a supplementary list back in ninety six meant you couldn't play at all, So I thought I was They con missed me to stay and I did that, and then yeah, Trent got into a bit of trouble. They had a few other

Why did you want to talk to me about nothing?

That's all right? So yeah, it's and why the same reasons? Why were you at that stage thinking about going home?

It was just purely the financial reasons. Yeah. I think I think the rookie list was playing maybe five thousand back then, which is one hundred bucks a week.

That's how we're talking about Dean Cox and Stephen Milne and Aaron Sandlands. Is the great rookie elevations, but you were the first rookie elevation? Is that cor I believe Yeah, yeah, unbelieva.

And you play against North Melbourne like some stars at North Melbourne at the time. They are a fantastic side at the time. And you know, I think it was it was it a Friday night game. So the Wednesday you find out you're playing on the Friday, not you're playing?

Is that right?

That's it? That's how quickly that course asking the question. But he's lost the free kick.

There's young mel and Michael wearing forty eight.

What a big night it is for him, As Andrew Shubel said, great to see him getting a.

Chant kicks up And that's how quickly it DAEs happen.

How do you get your head around that you're playing against superstars and in front of I think it's seventy five thousand people there.

That your memory is phenomenal.

I was probably there now, Yesperado.

Now it was that. You have to remember that was the reigning premier from from ninety six and they had an all star team and an all star forward line. Say, it was quite daunting, to be honest with you, Who.

Did you play on? Do you remember that? Trying to think you would have?

I played on? I played on a couple of players, but predominantly Anthony Mellington, Yes, ex Fitzroy then Royd boy, wasn't it. Yeah, So he's a pretty handy player. So that was my first taste of it.

So ninety seven, thirteen games, ninety eight, sixteen games, ninety nine, seveneen games, couple.

Of blow votes.

And as a forward, as a forward forward as a forward, so you might.

Have hoped you could have started as a forward because you did stand Tony Lockett at full back in thirteen hundred goals.

Of course not the record, but thirty hundred goals.

Yeah, amazing do you?

I mean you said before the game that game, when you're playing against Tony Lockett, you know that he's a chance to kick. You know that that milestone figure thirteen hundred. You said, I'm in a no lose situation. If he kicks the goals, I'll go down in history as the player he was on and if I stop him, I'll be remembered as the player that stopped him from the breaking the record. You go down in history in regard to that, don't you.

For ninety years the Collywood Footay Club, I have held the record.

And for sixty two years it's stood at.

Twelve ninety nine.

Will he write his name in the record book forever?

Come on?

Play with this kick?

It's going to go And we were reached.

I do, But I don't know if that's you're not happy with it because everyone brings it up. Yeah, and I said was there was an AFL career there as well.

Of course we'll get to the premiership medals as well, But that was the feeling that day going into it. College was struggling and that was a wooden Spoon year for Collingwoods. That was a battle. How do you stopped the big fella? It's pretty hard, isn't it.

It wasn't. And that that wooden spoon year, Eddie canceled their footy trip to Balleyd. He was so pissed he said he has I won't say what he said, but he goes, there's no footy trip this year. He was. He was livid.

As Glenn Archer would say, you played for premiership ships and footy trips, they would have gone down like a wrought iron hang glider.

It didn't go down.

Well. That was his first full year as president and he's pulled the footy trip and one of them the blokes just happy coppy.

We did Yeah, that was happy. There was nothing we could do. And also Mick was coming in as a new coach and I think he wanted to just set a new standard of where we're going.

Blokes have an inverted Commas Sunday afternoon, the turn for five days into Queensland. That was it.

You basically had a man Monday and you just moved on.

No, they did that anyway, so it would be a four D a kind of vender back then, but I don't I think most guys did that anyway.

Yeah, absolutely, So that year. Was it a tough year? You obviously had some really good form that year, but it was a bloody tough year from a club perspective. Sure, he's about to get sacked. There's all talk about Mick Moldhouse coming in. Was it a you know, the final game at Victoria Park. Was it a tough year mentally as much as as it was on the scoreboard.

Yeah, it's always a tough year when the coach is under the is in the gum from from the media, especially as a player. I was fortunate at that time that I was one of the younger players. I would have hated to have been one of the older players. And I went through that when I was at Essendon.

Became. But you'd seen it from the other perspective.

As I had. Yeah, and youth saved me on that in that circumstance and at the ES and then my age cost me. So that's just what happened.

Was it the right thing for the move on Shorey? You know?

Sure he's told Sack that. You know, he's trying to play a progressive game plan. He was trying to instill standards. He didn't always go about it the right way, but you know, I suppose when when mixed coming in, it doesn't matter, does it.

I really felt for Tony Shaw. I thought he was I actually thought he was a really good coach and he had some fantastic ideas.

I thank you for your cooperation over the period of time that I've coached you, but it cannot help us. The past has passed. We need now to build a future, and it starts today. I wish you all the best. I say, go out, and enjoy it. And I'll tell you what, I've only enjoyed football one time, and that's when I've been a bloody winner as a player as a coach.

And that's what our aim is today.

Let's get out there and have a goal.

And a lot of his ideas were before his time or the time of the league. At that moment, we were doing some set players. It was like real NFL slash NBA style and they were fantastic. Unfortunately, for sure, he just didn't have the cattle to execute what he wanted to do. He had a few rat bags at the club which didn't help him either. And you know, he was a health and training freak and he expected that from the playing group ever else. But it wasn't back then. It was still that. It was still the

Were you a rat bag? Were you a Skelly wag? You and Chris Tarrett were good mates.

You know.

It was the intersection of the old age versus the modern age with elite professionalism you're.

A bit of al added times there.

Yeah, I felt that I never did anything that young kids don't do today. Actually, I probably don't do anything. I think a good thing. I think of my daughter, I think my God. But yeah, like I mean, going we go out to the to the pub on a Saturday night, Like I mean, I just thought that was pretty normal. People couldn't understand that we did it while we were still playing footy, but I'd kind of grown up with it at morning side when I was there.

You lived together for a period as well, yourself and tas for memory, didn't you, And with that you had an unwritten rule, whatever happens in the house, we don't tell anyone else about. Was it true? Yeah, that'd written that. We just whatever happens, if there's a party in here, we don't tell anyone else about.

Absolutely. I just said, look at this is our sanctuary, and I said, whatever you do here, it'll never leave here. So you can be comfortable with that, you reflect on the young kids that come through these days.

They don't have any of the fun that you had off field. That you know, obviously you still had an extraordinary career, but they just they are so uber focused and they missed something in their lives that they can never get back.

Yeah, and I think that a lot of them are babied as well. I think I think you've got to suffer a bit of hardship along the way. You know, people cook for them, they clean for them, they do their washing. They I mean by the time the bill, by the time they're thirty, they're just these thirty year old babies.

Well, they've got to grow up at thirty, don't they do.

That's it. I think at some point you've got it. You've got to get out there and live, live a little bit and make sometimes you got to make some bad decisions to learn.

So you're happy with the era that you played in. You played in that really good crossover period, didn't you where it was professional but it was not the way it is today.

Yeah, No, I loved it. I think I was very fortunate to play that at that time.

So Mark Cleman gets delivered a handwritten letter I think from Chris Tarrant by you that basically says Chris has gone back to Mildui. To take us through that pretty extraordinary chapter.

Yeah, we went out one night and then I came home and Chris wasn't home, and yeah, and then there was just this letter and it said I've had enough, I'm gone back to Mildura. So he headed into the club and Mark Klein was the player lows on manager or something like that, and he said, we need to It was actually in pre season. He goes, we need to get up to Mildura to see him, and I said, all right, well off you go, and he said, no, you're coming.

The car trip or no plane or a car.

Or was playing they charted a plane. Yeah, so he flew up to Mildua. We picked up Chris. Chris before this, No, he wouldn't answer his phone. In fact, he left his phone at home.

Yeah, he just completely shut down from the world. Wanted to go home.

That's it.

And you're thinking who's going to pay the rent as well? Did you feel he would come back? Did you feel that the club would somehow convince him that. I mean, he's a freakish talent and would have been a tragedy, lost a footy in a sense, wouldn't he Absolutely?

To be honest, I didn't though, because I hadn't seen this before, and I hadn't seen it from Chris either. I learned later on there was some other stuff going on with him. But what happened after that is we after we got to Militioruy, we picked him up and then we flew down to something like the Raven or something like that, and then we got taken down to Portsy.

The old Eduardo. Eduardo was down there, wasn't he.

Eddo was on holidays with Rob. I was sharing a place together and from frontline, wasn't it? Yeah, that's it. That was a hilarious night. Absolutely, but the whole cracked up in the reds and you just talked that's it. Wow. Yeah.

And Taz was happy to come back and you know break Bread.

Yeah he was. And so we went down to Portsy and at this point in time, everyone was still training and I was kind of feeling bad, like we're at Portsy. But I think the club they knew that me being there was going to help them try and I know the reason we is to get him to stay.

And so what was it not like what's Ed saying? What's Tas saying? You were just sitting there witnessing at all.

Honestly, Taz didn't really say anything. I hope I didn't say much. It was just mainly Edie just telling stories about himself. It worked somehow, Yeah, it actually works. He is hilarious that guy.

Wow, when you look back, that must be one of the more remarkable nights of you, of your footy journey in a sense, you.

Know what I when now that you've spoken about it, it's just it probably doesn't. It's kind of unbelievable really, but it's just one of those things that I just thought was just normal at the time.

Take us through Ed's involvement, you know, the craziness, the good stuff, the bad stuff.

He was, He was and remains a force of nature.

He was and I think he was. He was a blessing in disguise to that club when he came in, because he did turn it around. My only criticism of what it did was he took calling it away from Victoria Park.

Today, it's a hugely emotional day, but not one of sadness. We say goodbye to Jock mcawell Stadium. At Victoria Riot Park and look back on great memories and victories and battles, the hard times we've endured, and that indomitable Collingwood spirit that has always.

Just said that before you you felt the Heartland should have stayed and as good a facility as it is that you know where it is now, but you love that suburb and gritty sort of style of footy.

Yeah, and the Bombers left Windy Hill as well. I think they should have stayed there. I live in sin Kilda now and you've got the Junction Oval literally across the road from where I used to live on fitz Roy Street, and I just was thinking, how some killer are not based here is just ridiculous. But you know, people make some bad decisions and we just have to live with them.

So you get a year under Mick Maltouse. Your reflections on Mick for what was only a single season.

Yeah, I really enjoyed Mick. I enjoyed his coaching. I just enjoyed the way he had a genuine love for his players, He really did, and he also had a genuine interest in what we're doing outside of footy. Quite often, when coaches would talk, i'd quite zone out, you know, it's just it just becomes noise. But with Micky was he just had you the whole time and what he said always made sense.

Did he paint a picture that this footy club's going to go somewhere really quickly? Did you get that feeling that that's speaking to a few players, that's what he was suggesting, Well, we'll get there really quickly.

Yeah. So he invited Chris and I over to his house for dinner early on and he said, we went out, we left the family, We went out a bit like that, you know, you go out and have cigars. Yeah, we actually went out onto the porch. We didn't have cigars, but we went out onto the porch, no cigars or brandy. But and he was he said, he said, boys, he is, We're going to get there. That's what he said. I believed it, even though we'd come last. I actually believe

But you weren't a part of it, which is quite remarkable when you think about it now, that he's invited you around and that you almost in two thousand season, you almost signed a new deal at Collingwood, didn't you was that close.

I'm not sure how close it was. Yeah, I done. I had some I had a bad ankle injury that year and the doctors said I had three years left in the ankle, basically.

No more after that. That's no more. That's it.

A few big ones. I haven't known those doctors.

Yeah, how do you find yourself at the Brisbane lines?

Swap for Jared Malloy.

Come home from Thailand led her under the door. There was no taking phones on holidays back then, and it was just from my manager Ron Jos Joseph saying call me asap, So I called him.

What are you thinking at that stage?

I'm not I'm thinking this is probably not good because I was really happy at Collingwood and I wanted to stay at Collingwood, but I understood the nature of the beast and anyway, I called him up and he said, he goes, I got Gubby Allen from Brisbane here. He wants to see you. And I said, oh, they can't be good.

So what went wrong? Do you think in a sense, do you think that you and Chris were so tight and so close that they thought we've got to break this up? Or do you think there's any in any situation like that.

I don't know. I don't think that had anything to do with it. I think they probably needed another Well, they brought in Jared, traded for Jared, so I'm thinking they probably needed a forward. They had Presty Simon press g Como him up with kind of similar positions.

Yeah, they probably.

They probably thought that he was we don't need two of them. We don't need two goalkeepers. One's enough, but we need another player like Jared up forward. That's That's what I'm thinking.

So changes in a heartbeat, lightning, you know, Invested Mixed brought me out there.

I didn't get the brandies.

And then it's extraordinary, it is, and it happened so quickly, like literally within a week later, I've got the guys, the Brisbane guys that are packing up the house and moving everything to Brisbane. And then that's it. It's all over, it's finished.

Were you pissed off? Were you pissed off with Colvid started this journey that was going to go somewhere. You've been told we're going somewhere, and all of a sudden it's gone.

A little bit. But then you quickly realize that you just have to get on with what you're doing and

Day and with the evil enemy, whereas you know, Collingwood were a ragtag bunch and some young, exciting kids, but also some some scrappers. So I mean, there was so much to love about Collingwood in two and two.

Yeah, And we spoke about it when we were at Collingwood that how we'd stayed together and we'd stick that together, especially the Interstate Boys, because we used to have that. We used to have these nights and dinners where when everyone would come over and it was just when the PlayStation was getting going and we were playing the FIFA World Cup and you choose a country and then we'd have the tournaments and then it get quite heated and

You were cheeky.

Did you send Jared Lloyd text message after you on the flag five months on?

I did? Yeah?

What did it say?

I was very so I just said thanks to this. It's a bit It was definitely chea a bit disrespectful us.

Did he follow it back with a with a text back or well?

First of you responded with who is this right? And then I said it's mail and then he responded with good you dighead.

So I mean that's it. I mean, you're you're a young lad. You've just want a PREMI year. Do you obviously look back and say, probably shouldn't have said that.

I should not have said that. That was very disrespectful. But I was at the pub with Tim Knighting and John Brown.

Yeah, you don't need to add any further. Did you feel like it was like, obviously you win. You don't realize you're going to go on and play in more Premierships, but it was a bit of a win for p and G as well, Like in a sense, like what did it mean to the people of P and G winning winning that premiership?

The AFL, P and NG It meant to lot. It was a real boost in the arm. I shot it down front. Yeah, for the development of the game. If in hindsight, I'm not sure whether the AFL did enough correct.

What do you think about it now?

Yeah, Like I think now it's a massive story. If a player from P and G came to Oh there's a young player from Yeah. But if a player came through that had that profile that I had at the time and played in the premiership and won it, I'd be grabbing that guy and doing a lot more to promote the game in the country.

Two thousand and two you've talked about that.

You felt queasy, you know obviously come up against the you know, year old team, the Pies. John Brown famously says that the biggest sprays that ever occur first day preseason with Lee Matthews, you know, just knocking you blokes down a peg. So you've won the unwinnable premiership. How did you set you up for that next year and of course the subsequent years.

Yeah, it's about the motivation. And I do remember I had a conversation with Lee over the preseason going into two thousand and two and I said, I'm really struggling right now to find the motivation to get back into training. And he said to me along the lines of that's understandable, but you've just got to pick yourself up and just go. And I think it's more so once the games started and we got back into the competitive spirit of it,

From to hunt absolutely and the Anthony Rocker goal that wasn't.

As much time as you want because understanding.

Just got over some therapy with this. You had a good look at it. You weren't sure after the game, were you, Anthony Rocker Still it says to this day it was one hundred percent of goal. A lot of you know, we're pasted, a lot of the water's gone under the bridge. Now you can tell us that it was.

It's kind of a Wayne Harm's moment.

It's very much a Collingwood thing, isn't it. It is the what happened. Tell us about your thoughts and you know what you saw at the moment.

Well, I know Anthony really well, and I know that he doesn't celebrate goals if he if he hasn't kicked him right. So if he is that, he'll he'll he'll be disappointed in himself when he kicked it. He's done

Tuk Us through Akka and your I suppose love for the great stuff, but you know the frustration famously, Len Matthew's caught it a consultant at times. Do you feel like the club handled him really well until it just couldn't handle him anymore.

I just think that's exactly how it happened. In any industry, you look after your resources, especially the ones that are good for you. And Aka was very good for that club. And he wasn't just good on the field. I mean, he was brilliant on the field, but he was very good for the Brisbane lines in Brisbane. It's good for he was good for AFL in Brisbane. He he was putting the lines on the front page of the Courier Mail, which I don't think anyone had ever seen ever, you know,

Any issues with his handstands as sat in this seat and talked about how it got eradicated at the Bulldogs.

Nope, couldn't care. I couldn't care what anyone else does on the field as long as it doesn't affect their performance.

How confident were you going into that Grand Final against Collingwood? You said something, I don't know whether it was mind games or whatever, but you said, you know, they've already got the engraved Collingwood on the cup. You're obviously trying to get a bit of seed of doubt in their mind. And that's the way it turned out in a lot of ways, wasn't it. There were a lot of seeds of doubt in Collingwood's minds without Anthony Rocker.

Yeah, and they beat us in that first fine as he said, so they were very confident. I knew that if it was a dry, slick day that we would be would be a chance, just just because of their personnel. I was just recently in Perth and I was caught up with Michael Braun and we were having a debate on his West Coast Eagles midfield and the Brisbane midfield, and we both just came to the conclusion that they were just too unbelievable midfields breaks. So I knew that

They moment.

Blokes like Colon Sure jumping out of the way, let's call it what it is.

Yeah, well, no, as Colin woul support, you'd say that happened.

They There were some very very nervous moments from Collingwood from that from almost the outset, wasn't it.

Yeah, And this is a great thing about Lee, he just he just always said get your head and shoulders over the ball, and even if that means that it comes at some personal injury or sacrifice, that's what That's what the team has to do. And we did that on the day. I don't want to speak ill of the Collingwood players or what happened with them, but that's what we did. And it just seemed a bit. It seemed like we just all had we're going for the one cause and it turned out that way.

It was meant v boys.

Really wouldn't it that physicality?

I mean, you and Chris Scott, you are involved in that famous incident with Nick gree Well, when Nick was banged up as a young kid there, you played by the rules of the day. Later on you weren't allowed to injure to target injured players. Well, what's your thoughts on that incident and what.

Happened that day. There's a lot of discussion about it afterwards.

Well, I'm disappointed that Nick actually was able to play footy again, running and.

Trenched him on the shoulder. I can get it before him take both suffered him up off the play one hundred meters off the plane. Nick Reeve an't standing there. Scott and Michael went up and crunched that right shoulder.

It's like watching the wrestling. Yeah, So when he came back I was a bit disappointed I didn't get him properly. Now, but you're right, Ralphie, it was the time of the day and the times of the day, and it was win it all costs and getting Nick out of the game was what I thought we had to do.

Was that what made your team great as well? That you were ruthless. You you were prepared to do whatever within the rules, and sometimes even a little bit without to actually get the job done.

Yeah, I think so. Yeah, with a lot of workplaces and work things now, there's there's a lot of things that you can and can't do. But with that particular team, we had a let's call it a win. It all costs, mentality, whatever it takes, and yeah, sometimes we did cross the line. I look back on it and probably a bit embarrassed with a couple of things that I've done, but at the time, that's just what we did.

And you know what, that's what you did.

And then you look at the image of Nick basically in tears on the bench and you're not to know that he's going to have that physical reaction.

Well, I didn't know. He was a big crow baby.

Did you ever talk to him about it? You would have crossed paths at some stage, I would imagine, did you ever have a chat?

We crossed pars, but we just never spoke about it. It was one of those things that I know, it's like an ex girlfriend just you remember, but you just don't talk about it.

Spoils So three flags in a row like you remarkable. You know, one of your last years at college it ends in a wooden spoon, you get the three flags. Are you super proud of the fact that you played well in those Grand finals? Like, not just as a group,

Yeah. I always proud of myself and playing well in big games on the big stage. So, like I said, I was lucky that in those games I was a peak fitness.

Do you care about history? You the greatest team in the modern era? Do you know compete yourself to a long different people? Obviously Macus Machine team and the great Melbourne Sizer late fifties and six.

No, I'd probably greatest, higher than all of them. That's great, seriously that you do.

Yeah, you look at your midfield, you look at your forwards, backs, you think you were the best.

I know, I think the Hawthorne team of the eighties, so actually least team that team, Dermy Dunstall, Dipper, Tucky, I think they played what eight.

Yeah, they played seven grad finals in yeah, eighty three to eighty nine, whatever, that was, eighty three to eighty nine. They played in every Grand final that time.

Yeah, and then they want to get in ninety one.

Correct, They want to get in ninety one with some younger guys but still a few of the older guys there. So you think that might be the best.

I think that team was the best team that I remember.

Yeah, of my leading into that Grand Final, the Port Adelaide game in terms of you know, you've had the shorter you've had injuries, but you've had the shorter turnaround you've played in Melbourne. You've had to have flights back and forward. Did that cost you the wind? Do you think, no, we would have lost to Port You would have lost regardless.

Yeah. I've gone back and looked at that and watched that game, and they would have beaten this regardless. They were they were a good side, they were fit, and they were basically us in two thousand and one. Yeah, and we were Essendon. They just ran over the top of that analogy.

That is because it is that way. You were a bit banged up and tired.

We let it half time and Esson led it half time and they just ran over the top of us that we had no answers for. If that game had gone for another quarter, we would have lost by one hundred points.

Really tell us about the fight. There a few fights that day. Lynchy had a few throwing cut lunches, and it was a pretty was that part and parcel of the fact that you guys thought were trying to do everything to win this, but we just can't.

I think so. And I think Lynch you had done it Hamstring, Yeah, by that stage, So I think he felt that. Actually I shouldn't say, I think I shouldn't speak for him, but from what I saw, I think that Alistair might have thought that he couldn't help us anymore that day, and the only way he could do that was to maybe take a couple of them out.

You said after the game, I think you got one of the journals to come back after twenty minutes. You needed to compose yourself, and you said a few things that we did are uncharacteristic of us.

I mean a few egos got in the way as well.

We had a shot on goal taken away by a decision that was reversed, which for the back line was devastating instead of shooting for goal. They're big words, but that's what happens in the quadron of a Grand final.

Yeah, and it was a twelve point turnaround Byron Picker kicks a goal. That's right. Yeah. So, and then you need everything going right for you on Grand Final day. You need you need the bold of bounds for you need some decisions from the umpire and you need to be playing well. And if you're having a shot for goal right in front and someone does something but it goes down the other end and they score, that's not

Came Moon.

He always thinks about the losses more than the wins. How do you reflect upon it? You just think about the three pairter? Do you think about the one that got away?

I think about the one they got away that kept me, that kept me up for a while, that one did. Yeah, I'd think about it right up until like easily ten years after.

Really, you said, you've said once before that you cried after that game. Had you done that in your footy career before.

No, I hadn't, and it was it was quite strange. I came into the the rooms disappointed. Yeah, there was no in the sense of tears were coming. This is me after just calling Nickaller. But it was it was only when I saw my family. My family came into the rooms and then I just I just started crying and I felt that I'd let them down. As I was fit that day. Turn I thought I was going to have a good game.

She did have a good game.

She played it right.

It was a great deal, wasn't it. You played Warren Treadray, Foreign Treadery.

Yeah, and I just felt that I'd let them down.

So you know, your ankles held up, you're playing great football, but you're twenty nine years of age and you tell Brisbane that's it.

I'm ready for the next phase of my life, is what you said. How did it unfold? Now?

I actually went into Lee's office and I said, well, they knew that I was doing some stuff outside of footage anyway, so I just went in there and said I did like a day off to do that during the week, and he said no, and.

He right respondence will be entered into it no.

Yeah, there was no, There was no I think you're making your decision a bad decision. I think you're making the wrong decision, or do you want to have a little think about it, come back to me. It's just like that. And I said I'm thinking about retiring if I can't, and he said okay, and that was it.

It was that harsh.

An hour later, I was in Michael Bowser's office signing my release papers.

That's it. Is that a headspin like you were probably thinking about it, but you weren't probably certain if you'd have said I'll give you the day off, would you have kept playing?

Probably not.

You thought that was probably nearly it. Yeah.

Yeah, I'd spoken to my family as well, and my dad was saying you should keep playing, yeah, and my mum was saying do what you want, as mums did.

Yeah.

Of course I still had a year to run on my contract. Yeah, so I just wanted one day off to work on this stuff.

You know, some charity staff, a foundation, some of the expanding P and G stuff.

Is that right, Yeah, that's it was. It was the early days of my PNG work and I just, yeah, I just felt that I needed just one day for development. Because I knew that I was, I was coming to the end of it twenty nine and.

So at least sense the fact that you know that there were greater issues there, or that he thought your body was breaking down, and you know, because it seems unreasonably harsh from.

I think he just and he said it. He said to me, if you can't prepare to be a football then shouldn't footballer, which he's right, he's absolutely spot on. So I retired that day and that was it.

How long after that was the cheeky little text from Gary O'Donell, who you'd obviously worked with before. The cheeky little texts from Gary who was then at Essendon.

He texted me about a week later. But he just texted me and said congratulations on you on your career and I said thanks, and then I said I'm off to Thailand for holiday now. So yeah, and that was it. I didn't I didn't hear back from him for about six weeks. But he emailed this time because I checked

Yeah, yeah, because you had a year on your contract, so that's right, Yeah, I think yeah, And so fifty days on, yeah, you become an essence player.

Controversial recruit Mel Michael has trained as an essendont player for the first time. The former line is hopeful his business schedule will allow him to play a full season.

They pissed off Brisbane, Yes, they were very Yeah, tried to stop it or tried to do everything they can to put it. They didn't try to coach you back or anything like that.

No, I'm not sure the lengths they went to stop it, but they weren't happy. I didn't know that.

And I think Lee talked about you know, how many retirements does you need? You know, Dame Nelly Melbourne kind of plastics at the least, stuff which we love. Yeah, but it was it you felt like your body could stand up and you felt like you could be rejuvenated.

I was. Again, it wasn't about I didn't want to play football. I still loved football. I still played football until my game play that thirty So I loved footy. I just wanted to spend a bit of time doing my professional development outside of football. And I'm just so grateful that Essendon gave me that chance.

Two pretty fun years at Essendon.

Yeah, I loved it, absolutely loved and I remember doing an interview with you Ralfie my first year when I got down there. So but and it just goes so quickly though. But Messenon was a great club to finish with because it was good to go back to a big club, playing at the MCG again. And I think when it players exiting out of football there the contacts you can make it, the bigger clubs certainly helping that transition. So it was a good club.

You played with Buckley, you played with Voss, you played with Herd. It's impossible to say who was the best out of those. But give us a feel what it was like playing for them, and who were you closer to out of that obviously, Vossy, you'd been there a lot longer. But tell us about those three amazing players you played with.

Yeah, just all Guns and Mason, and the three of them were pretty good guys as well. I didn't really have a lot to do with Hurdy Herdie it. Yeah, I think I only had the one year with Herdy so plus he was also right at the end of his career as well. But Bucks and Michael were just two freaks.

You played in Hurdy's last game, didn't you, And Perth was Sty's last game as well. That's the big farewell.

That's it. Yeah we had the big comeback and got rolled in the end by goal. But yeah, now there absolute superstars and they'll probably be future legends of the AFL.

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