Greg Williams - It's hard being a star

So I thought I was gonna win the Brownlow. Yeah, I should have got to throw it anyway. Anyway, umpire deliberately to vote for me. That's the that's a fact.

I'm John Ralph and I'm Glenn MacFarlane.

Welcome to Sacked, a podcast that explores what really happens when the ax falls in the AFL world. We'll take you behind the scenes with some of the biggest names in football and find out how they found out their time was up and who pulled the trigger Today.

It's hard being a star. The never boring footy life of Greg Diesel Williams. He was the kid in leg Irons who couldn't run out of sight, rejected twice by Carlton as a teenager, who became one of the game's greatest players. Greg Williams always believed he was the best, and he showed just how good he was as a Geelong Best and Fires winner, a Swan's and Blues Brownlow winner, and the ninet ninety five Norm Smith medallist. And controversy

Yeah, well, a pretty good record I have and a lot of hard work, but yeah, it ended up really well at the end.

Even early doors like growing up. I think you were the third of eight kids growing up and you had calipers on your leg early that.

Yeah, for a year I had irons on my legs for a year for straighten my legs, which they did in those days.

They don't do that anymore.

Yeah, that was a battle, but a yeah mum said, didn't stop me.

I just kept swinging around.

With the calipers.

So yeah, that was all part of growing up.

But I had a great family and mum had over one hundred foster kids.

Is a mum really? Dad?

Yeah, so it was a pretty unreal family we had. And yeah, mum and dad's still going and wow, there's a different upbringing.

So I hate kids, but also welcoming. So many people assume in changing circumstances into family. What was that like for my day to day existence?

Yeah, it was like get home, there'd be a couple of babies there, or a couple of young kids running around, or yeah, stay for a week or a month, or a couple stayed for a year a couple of kids. Yeah, that's pretty cool and they actually it's not football, but yeah, they came back when they were about twenty eight, see mom and dad. Yeah they Yeah, they're just so thankful for what they did.

And do you still keep in contact with some of them? Occasionally?

Not a lot of My mom does. She gets cards and stuff still and stuff like that.

So it's pretty good upbringing. It's other than that.

She adopted the last two, did she Yeah, John I and Hope.

Yeah, so that was and that was a really sad story, those two.

But then I've just done so well as well.

Mark Robinson talks about you were pretty good. He was pretty good as well. Did you come through the same vintage robber Or said, yeah, Greg Williams had me and maybe a couple of others. But did you play in the same vintage A Robo or?

I think I'm not sure, ol Rubbo he's old than me.

He's a bit young and probably but oh he was Sanders, which we didn't like them. We didn't like them. But yeah, I had a great time growing up in Benyo. Go one square, yeah, and then the two pre seasons got the ass from Carlton twice, So yeah, I was devastating, but yeah, I really needed it. I got fit like I wasn't fit. Dad used to say, I used to walk around and get forty possessions, you know. Yeah, and I did it really easily, like yeah, not you.

Know, standing in the Senate square you get to the stoppage, but not spreading as you got.

I couldn't.

I just got the ball time and which became a habit. And yeah, I had to train. I actually did two praisons that really helped me. They went to Geelong of course.

Yeah. I wrote to Tom Aphy and he asked.

You wrote, Yeah, what do you remember what you said in the latter? Yeah, just give me an opportunity I want to go. Yeah, and they knew me. Geelong recruiters knew me and said, yeah, bringing down And I was lucky enough to and another hard preseason like I did three in a row, like yeah, I really needed it, and yeah.

And I was ready then I was really ready to go.

Were determined to like prove the bastards wrong. But what went wrong at Carlton do you think, like, other than the fact they had some of the best.

I think it was fitness stuff.

Yeah, really so who did you work with there?

Well, to south Come was my coach.

Yeah, he played a Carlton and we did for half a season, went back to Benygo, but he was a marathon sort of running. I did a couple of seasons with in pro season running like ten K ten K's you know, like I still remember it.

And I was a plumber with dad. Sons were as well.

But like we we did stuff like we go to work Eagle Hawk do a job and he made me run home. I run the train like like whatever it was from work, just run the train and you know I did it. And there wasn't many players doing that. It wasn't so I did. I did work really hard on it and eventually went to Geelong And.

Did you want to prove him wrong Carton?

Yeah, yeah, no, it was definitely in the termination to make it. Actually there's a few players Ricky Nick and I grew up with.

Yeah, and he made it Chicken. Yeah.

Yeah, if he can make it, I can make it. That was seriously, that did help me.

I really did.

And yeah, so that was yeah Geelong and then I was lucky enough did a pre season there and then obviously got a game. First game in eighty four four with Garry Seniors. First game for Gelong as well. Wow, yeah, Mick Turner's captain and I was in the middle. So it's a cool day and I I will I struggled at half time. I had twenty at half time. Really it was a real good start. But then yeah I had thirty eight my first game, Like that was my best day ever and three.

Brown obots first start, Like you must think you worked so hard to get there?

Is this it was?

It was a great day and that was still my favorite day knowing really all the just just because of how hard it was to get there.

Yeah, it was. What was Gary Ablett scene? You Like, I think for a time there you might have been when you got your first job at Geelong.

You might have been working seats to the club. And that'suff.

Was.

He a good works horrendous be late. It wouldn't turn up.

Pretty much like the way he played, He wouldn't train like he's amazing, that guy.

He's my favorite player for as well.

Just watching you. Yeah, take it.

Through what what you saw? Obviously we saw it. You know what did you say it was different?

I saw?

Yeah, he's the best athlete I ever saying best player ever saying, and most ability anyone's ever had.

I've ever seen. Yeah, all those things, all the.

Ones, Oh stupid things you want, Like he could kick sixty five minutes both feet jump his average marks, but like an arms length above everyone else is the average one. And then he takes back he's as well, Like he's just amazing. And one of the stupid things I watched. I remember do a run throughs all the time with Tommy. You do high knees and stuff, just running through the square with the high knees, and I'd be next to him.

And seriously, he'd be hitting him knee and his jaw.

I'm there just jogging like a hack runner, and he's just this machine, is like a piston, Like he was

Like, yeah, it's just nothing like it.

Yeah, So you finished in ninety five.

So for those there that are listening to this podcast for the first time, they're thinking, he's getting these forties, will be so good. That'd be humble about it. You saw the ball, well, you had great hands. Tell us about what made you a good player? You know why you'd feel confident going into every game.

I think it goes back to the way I was.

I had a bigger brother, John, who was bigger than me and tougher than me, and I was brought up with him.

That helped.

That helped a lot, but even just skills and development, like I'm big on that now, still living, But I had no I'd ever en covered in regards to both feet, both hands and anticipation. I knew I was good at it. Yeah, I knew I was in close. And I always don't know whays talk about it, but I talk about the secret that the game is creating the loose man like it always has been it always will be. It's a lot of hard to do now because of the defense,

Yeah, so that's what I did.

What was what were those heady days that J're long, Like, all of a sudden, you're working your ass off, and you know, twenty and twenty one was probably late at that stage where if you didn't get drafted at times, you know you were past it almost.

What was that like early on?

And as you said, that extraordinary center line and you're away in your AFL career.

Yeah, it's cool. I loved it down there.

Mcturnal's captain had a great relationship with him. I only played twelve games my first year. I won the best first year playing in the AFL. Did you did my what's great? And missed the rest of the year. So yeah, I went to the World of Sport for that. I won the hamball competition same day.

And I got the I gave you this. I was a recliner, lazy boy, was called Moran famous, Maranne reclined and I've still got it, Jaging. This is the worst president I've had. You still got saturd in my whole life.

That it's in your private place in the living room.

That's fantastic.

So you do your name and all of a sudden, Then so second year, another big pre season, so you did.

Had to do another one? Yeah, and got fit. Yeah, I was fine.

I was fine after the rest and got back and yeah. Actually had one of my biggest yees in eighty five. I won the best off and I got over six hundred and something possession likes the world w.

Six seventy five three ninety nine handballs.

It was a lot brown Over it's fourth behind Brad Hardy.

Yeah, there's nearly my best year that one. Yeah, and then one of the best first and then got married that December. The whole g long forty team came and then I went to Sydney.

So he wasn't a great wedding.

So were you already you'd already checked out at Geelong when you had the wedding and tom the sack, doesn't he?

Yeah? He does.

How were you with Tommy? Tommy was great, gave you the opportunity early and yeah, pissed off when he got.

The sack, Yeah, I was.

And then yeah, he asked me to go to Sydney with him and Edison, so and that just turned into a.

Offered too good to refuse in the end.

Well, of course, matter of the weekend, so far as football was concerned, Doctor jeff Eddleston after purchasing on Wednesday the Sydney Swans for more than six million dollars.

So how did they pitch it to you, Edilton at the rialto is that right? With wives and partners?

He did?

Mary came and we met him. Yeah, it was just a unreal meeting. He said, come up and put the offer in front of us, and I thought it would go on. Can't be serious, you know, And we went up there.

But what was the offer?

You remember what it was?

Yeah, one hundred fifty thousand, and what would you long offering fifty thirty two or something like that?

Like I said that. So at one stage there they are offering forty five and you said give me an extra five and they said, no, is that is that right?

So I think, yeah, it might have been ten. Yeah, but it was like ten grand more or something.

And they didn't want to match it. They didn't want to not even match it. They didn't want to give you the extra ten.

But yeah, because did you really want to leave or was it? No?

I didn't.

Actually I was country and I loved it there. And like the last thing I thought I'd be doing is going to Sydney.

Last thing.

So it's a lot when when you know, I don't know, if he writes it on a serviette verbals won fifteen, you think, and this is life changing money.

It was, it really was. And then the thing we went up to Sydney might have.

Been a month later, and he had the medical center in Sydney. It was amazing anyway, we've gone in there and my wife was on fire, so we've gone in there one hundred and fifty seven. Mary said we need a car, so he said, yeah, you can have a car. And then she said you've got to pay a rent for three years and he said, yeah, okay, we'll pay your rents. Well, wow, was good better good negotiations.

Described Jeffrey Edelston to those who are for younger friends.

Flamboyant, controversial, everything.

You know.

He had the pink helicopter. He is married to Leanne who had the I own the Owner message on the back of her pink What was it like that heady days with with the doc.

That was like heally came up and to Bolon and Colon and like there was some yeah, serious recruiting done and they already had some good, really good players there and yeah, we just started training and then it's a bit embarrassing because there's that there's no club there as such. Like it was just people don't understand how bad it was. It was like we couldn't train on the CG and we played there, but we couldn't train on it, and we're just training in the car park or the overall

Feel like a frontier or I feel like what's going on here?

Yeah, and there's blokes even a couple of years in there's still blokes traveling up on Thursday playing on the weak ground. And yeah, like we finished on top the first two years I was there.

It was. It was pretty amazing what Tommy.

Did and we actually did to be able to do that under the circumstances because there's no guts to the club.

What's that?

What would you do?

Like what was your post match and like where did you sort of meet and where would you know post Thursday to know when you're going to get selected.

Yeah, we train probably the showgrounds of most and then we have a team meeting.

You tell us tom it ring it Friday night and tell.

You in the team on I yeah, yeah, Friday probably, But you always ring and talk to you Yeah, come on, I know you to be you know, it's just pretty similar. But it was just you always waited for the call, like I think it's just checking anyone's own.

No, that was that was the cool thing. But I struggled my first year. And see now on the brown low.

I was going to say, thirty seven disposed of two goals first game and then you're in the brown lay.

Yeah, I did. So that was pretty cool in my first year. And I love the c J as well.

It was a did it suit you a bit as well? That that sort of ground? Every ground suited me, but that one suited me more. Did I love playing there?

What's so special about that year? You? You were guys brought in from a whole lot of different clubs, but somehow you made it work to finish on top of the lane ADR and unfortunately you had to share the brow. Oh that's you. Probably Dipper only went for the free feed, didn't he.

That's pretty cool Dipper and I get on.

Well, yeah he did well. He came tenth and the best and fairest that you. Yeah, but he's on the wing of course. And yeah he was a dirty player too. I don't know how you want it?

You want to do?

That's how much confience did you go into with games? Those days you're getting tagged? Are you're getting you know, could that we're untaggable? What was it like to describe those emotions.

Oh, look, I often say it's like hard being a star, Like it really is so much pressure on you, and even today, like you can just see it in some players. But now I was like, I remember days where you know you're getting tagged, you know.

You're struggling. At half time, the Empire has given you nothing.

You've got John Worsfold trying to kill your on the half back flak, another bloke on the wing trying to kill you. And then you're going at half time and Tommy says, come on those to win the game for us, you know, And that's and that's what it was like. It was like, and I wanted to do that. You know, I loved it. I loved all of it, but I did and I obviously thresht out sometimes and you know, you just get frustrated your belts someone or whatever.

That's what I watched the first couple of minutes and the ninety five Grand Final. I said, you're finishing ninety five. You won the flag in ninety five. It was so violent, you know, from the first you get bashed, Dean Rice gets clobbered, and that was the first couple of minutes. Described it us what playing football was like in that

No, you had to, like you had to protect yourself, like I'm telling you, Yeah, those people trying to you shouldn't say killed me, but they were trying to knock me out. There's no idea. Yeah, definitely, every every game I played. I'm pretty proud of the fact I never break my nose. No one ever broke it.

Lot of flakes tried.

But so how did you How did you approach every contest and you're in one hundred contests?

Yeah, the same.

You had to so you're going in with a bit of self preference of preservation, but as soon as you take a short step, you don't get a footage.

So that's a challenge.

No, there's no doubt about amazing reflexes or something. Yeah, some pop vision, Yeah, I feel and that not a lot of players had to protect themselves like I.

Who were the players you didn't like out there on the field. There would have been a few that consistently later on we get onto Reef and that favourite things.

Like John There was players who, honestly, this is true in games like I'm not out there to bail people. I'm out there to try and get the footy and people trying to stop me getting that well, and they did whatever they could to do that, so and I got people got to spit suspended.

For me, but I got them all back. Yeah, like that's the cool thing.

Yes, So you waited for the moment and that was the Reeth Jones things later on. That was definitely what happened there. And Willis went fair at him again.

And we'll see a similar procedure take place once more.

It's David James and holding the jaw and that's why the cart and player jumped over the top and gave away the free kick because he saw what went on there.

They are Reece James and Williams, neither of.

The race walking on Williams here there was one gat just little niggling.

Things, but there it is.

It's quite a time.

Oh Williams and Reece Jones are still going.

When do you feeling here at this CG.

Well, he's race was like his champion play that guy. Yeah, you know, he thought he was tough and he got knocked down a lot by a lot of different people. Yeah, a lot of blood of blokes actually punched him, and but he just refused to stop being upon the house on the ground like he was.

And that's just what my favorite whatever it was.

Yeah, and we talked now Rece and I'm like, I wouldn't say we're best mates, but we talked like, you know he's civil.

Yeah that's right. But that game and he's all has been dirty on may race, right.

So that game when there's a bit of an omber all and I was on the ground fighting Bradley.

Actually I was doing well.

It wasn't that artbeat, but I reneed me from behind and broke my shoulder, right, So he's broke me this one here, yeah, scapular not to break. So he's breaking like this. I knew it was broken anyway. The next ball up he got and I broke his jaw next next minute and that was it Kingdom basically.

Yeah, And that.

Was just something that you thought, well, he's giving me one, I gives off anyway. Yeah, you're not playing anyway.

And that was that was That was what it was like. It was tribal, It was insane.

Yeah, it was stupid. It wasn't good.

No, sorry, no, just those Sydney days were a cap You're kicking high scores, you're the Kings of the kids.

You're playing Sunday foot that starts around that vino.

It's been a Sunday footy then for sure.

Yeah, so you know you alive as a footballer in the town's alive with.

Oh it was. It was like rugby league town and Warick's in the.

Front of the the Herald and the Telegraph like he's on the front page taking the mark and stuff like. It was just unheard of. Yeah, and it was full every week. It was amazing. Yeah, s o g was full and it was just pumping and everyone just loved it. And unfortunately we got kicked out straight sets.

Yeah what happened?

Yeah, there was no home finals, that was that was the biggest problem. So we had to come to Melbourne obviously, but we were unbeatable up there and yeah, we just didn't get the chance to do that, which would have obviously helped a lot.

But this was a sense of injustice or that was just what Albourn was the maker.

Yeah, just Melbourne. That was why it was.

But could you have one one if you are about when the Grand Final but we could have got to a grand fall Yeah absolutely, and work tell us about Wick.

Yeah, Warick?

Wow, every quarter, so kicking me days al kicking me every quarter? Like, yeah he was I thought about that. He's about He acted like a fifteen year old. Yeah, and he still does regrets he might have got so we can mark like l I could get jump on you. He was one step like he was a dangerous play on. He really Wasn't he down to goals?

He was here and and did like did he drive you mad? Or was it like Warri's worrick and he's going to help our success?

He drove me mad? He's apparent of the ass. But he was a lovable guy, like he.

Really was him?

Yeah he could and he yeah, he he was the biggest thing in Sydney.

I never said him bloke have so many girls?

Really he was Yeah, sorry, I'm not talking about yeah sex he or.

Anything, but he had a hear him almost.

He had a line up was amazing And I don't know why the girls like him.

So the end of that eighty eight season, Tommy gets sacked. Was it time for Tommy? You go? Do you think were you had you sort of fallen out of love with Tommy?

Oh?

No, I never fallow loved him, but players you're so hard Yeah, like the players didn't go, they couldn't go with him. In the end, it was just three years of pounding the same drill, same the same Yeah, just get them down and they lose form of.

It and they blame the coach of course, and you know the.

Stuff, which I can understand a little bit why, but it didn't affect me.

Explain t Shirt Tommy to us, you know, down the guts for those that don't. You know, he was beloved and he was a father figure.

But he was a hard as he's ruthless.

Yeah, and he was it was all about the team, like he was such a good motivator, you know, us against them, it was always you know, it was the same and tackle and tough.

But fitness was a big thing for him obviously.

And I think the the Richmond days when he won three flakes that that was the biggest reason they wont it because they were so fit. You know, it was just a different level of fitness and and he just kept it going and he thought it was that was his mantary air.

Train really hard, play hard and just keep going.

But he's a great speaker as well, Like he was amazing talker, like motivator, like he was just just really good at it.

And Maureen was another thing.

Maren hap Yeah, absolutely, yeah, still best mates with my wife, Marian. She's ninety now, and yeah, what she did as well. And Mary helped a lot with the girls there, but the girls had more fun than us, yeah, you know, and that was that was a big part of it, because like I said, there's no club, no nothing, but there was Maureen you know as well.

So that was was pretty cool part of it.

The feeling was that some of your players they got sick of him. Was that one of the reasons he went, you know, unnamed player, you know here in the Herald Sun, the player. You know, all players get sick of coaches, but the senior players that Tommy perregiously had on side turned against him because they couldn't communicate with him.

It's somethimes. It's just coach is time.

Yeah, I don't know. I'm sure Jared he's not worried about tom Yeah, but I said there probably was a few work. Yeah, it probably was. Yeah.

Yeah, that's where and you're a bit.

Nine and eighty nine fifty three disposals, six goals against Sea, twenty five kicks, five marks.

A fantastic performance.

According to Swan's coach colcon Here, Gregor is just a great player, a champion.

What do you remember that day?

Yeah?

I did kick six goals as well. That was pretty cool. I hit the post ones really was a kick seven I did. It's funny the things I remember. But now that was a yeah fifty three. That was actually my whole mantra. My whole career was to have forty every game.

That was your plan.

That was a quarter that was.

I know that's never being done before, and it wasn't doing done then. But all I cared about is how many possesions I've got. Yeah, that's all the reason I trained for and practiced and train and run, and it's to get ten.

Yeah.

Yeah, because I think you did it fourteen times. You've got forty plus and obviously lots of high thairty. But so now you'd say you've got to be working in the team structure. But you know, if you got your forty, that would help the team. Yeah, takes cares of a lot of things. If you get forty, yeah better.

There's not many issues with anyone. But I even like I always think I'm the biggest ball magnet that has ever been. I still believe that.

Yeah, yeah, you just just you knew where to go? Was that you basically knew where to go on the field. You're also Ralfie an amazing handballer. One of the great exponents of the handball. Was that something you worked on there was poly Farmer, was you know the great used to used to handball.

Through long way card.

Did you have any special tricks there, Diesel?

Nah, Look, I don't no, nothing like like Bradman hitting the ball and it's nothing like that.

And I'm not Bradman, don't get me wrong.

So it the what I did was I practiced like if we're in a drill and I'm you're Craig Bradley there, Well, I'd always handled a Brett Ratton over there, or always longer, or the charging one, always the hard step. Yeah, And I think that was the mantra in the pattern of I practiced. And so if I went in a drill of training, like even it was circle work, I'd get the ball more than anyone in circle work or a handball drill or a kicking drill. And that's what I

Did you have the flip of the flop of the over the top, did you have the touch one, the long one, the high spinning one. Did you have different types of handballs? Explain that to us.

Yeah, well handball is it's a swinging action and long arm action.

Like it's pretty hard to explain on without showing you, but yeah, I could swing left and right handed and handball twenty twenty five meters like because of the action I had.

It's not like so many bogs.

Hamble ben handed and they can't have a leny when there as long and there is an art to.

The really definitely, no doubt. Swans start to see me employ doc Doc Edleston has his own personal challenge and business challenges and in the middle of I think nineteen ninety everyone's got to take pay cuts and stuff like that. You're stuck it out for a while. How tough with those times, No.

It was horrendous. In the end we finished last couple of times.

Yeah, that wasn't good and there was no help from the fall in regards to recruiting. Actually, there's like the club sold Carey and long mives of North Melbourne, Like.

My god, seventy thousand dollars, that's how.

Desperate it were for money. And like if they came, it would have been fixed a lot of things. But yeah, there was no recruiting. There's no Yeah, there's just no nothing.

How coupable was the AFL there when you could see what this team could be and what what you know, how they could expand into Sydney And yet you know, the NFL was sleep at the wheel.

Yeah, I know they really were, and they you can, I can say whatever they liked, but they were and it was, yeah, frustrating in the end. And then I decided enoughs enough, I'm going And they didn't like that either. They Yeah, they were spending me for six weeks. They spended you. And I think you cut a big fine twenty Grand final, which I've got a great story about Colo dropping off the check just so you could play the first game.

Who made the first approach from Carlton? And what did you think, I'm not going back to this mob that?

Oh no, I was happy that.

Yeah, it wasn't big. Jack Elliott is.

My manager, yeah, and he yeah, there's a few clubs was interested.

One day, I was the best player in the league.

But it's good.

We're interested, but Robert Harvey would have been part of the trade and they weren't prepared to do that.

Silly for them giving you the best time in the league.

It's not bad either, Yeah.

Yeah, And so I think you got to Carton and I think a deal of three one thousand dollars, which was the biggest deal in AFL history at the time.

Is that right? A thousand Jesus Christ.

So tell us about what happened with Sydney and you know, potentially payments outside the cap.

You were fine for that.

And suspended to spend it because two contracts. Apparently I don't know how I do, but I do. That wasn't my doing.

So you basically just did what Sydney asked you to do.

Yeah, they just put it content. They put the contracts in front of you. So they tried to push it because they were pissed off that you were leaving. And in the end they copped it as well, didn't they. How tough was that? You can't play for Carton initially and you've got a fighting twenty five thousand?

Yeah, No, that was hard.

Did you end up paying it or was it I paid it?

Or didn't pay it.

Yeah, Colo dropped the chest, but it still aws me twenty five and these.

Days that would be sort of like shock horror.

But it was a bit of like the the sign of the times, like that stuff was happening. There was stuff outside the salary cap. But they were pretty chaotic.

Times and they didn't want me to leave. Of course they want me to stay. But yeah, did.

You think they could fall over? Like they were in monumental trouble, that they might have gone out of existence.

When you look at it now, what they what they turned into?

Yeah, blood's culture. But it took a while, but it was so close to falling over. And that's part of the reason why you left that you you got a lot of good footy to play.

Yeah, I was happy to stay there, but if yeah, like I said, just care anything and long maira.

Yeah, there's just no recruiting, there's no nothing. What was future?

No future? You felt like there was no future.

There's no club there there's.

No no nothing. What was it like walking into Carlton.

It was a different story, amazing, amazing.

Place, facilities, players, Big John Elliott was probably in his prime. What was did it? Was he a part of the tell Us about was it a different thing than the doc Edilston scenario. This is Jack's a bit different. It was a bit different.

He's a lot more confident in doc els than Look.

Really, yeah, tell us what it was like?

He was like, he's very arrogant John, but that's what he was. He was just a big personality and.

Scotty Carlton like a dog with a bone over this Greg Williams affair.

Yes, they're really intensifying their campaign to give Williams for the first match Sandy.

They've got their.

Lawyers talking to league lawyers, papers going left, right and center, and the Blues realize after that Foster's Cup match, after that when they lost three players from being reported and one from injury, that they have to have Williams in the first match, and they're going all out the getting there.

I think that the stories of the time, So you know, you obviously get suspend it. It's eleven weeks. Agains brought back to six.

Colin drops a twenty five thousand dollars check off at AFL house in order for you to play, So he personally couriered that twenty five thousand dollars check gave you the orcle here to play on his way home last night.

That story'd be the biggest thing teams was the man who wrote that story.

Those stories now like that'd be the biggest story of a month. A great story, but it was just the drama of the day. There was so much happening in the AFL.

Yeah, there was, yeah, no, and yeah. I was just wrapped to get back to Carlen, I really was. Yeah, but you paid the twenty five. Colo definitely didn't know they didn't pay it. They might come good on it, Diesel Laster.

All these years Colo, I saw another day.

Alan Schwab said, if it's not paid, he can't play. He's got the billion knows what's going to happen. Speaking

Actually three hundred thousand.

I talk about this sometimes where I bought a house in accident and one of the best streets for four hundred and ninety thousand.

Ye, So that's one way of helping you, no doubt for sure.

So still got that house.

No, I haven't. I moved on from there.

But like that house now players on one million or me and that house worth six million, so three hundred thousands a lot of money back then.

Different it's obviously different than now.

Different economy.

Yeah, the value of money back then was a lot more. Yeah, definitely. So I was on at I was higher paid than they are today.

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, And I'm trying to think what the salary cap would have been even I think in two thousand and four the salary cap might have been something like.

For it was pretty loose.

It was not.

That's a great line day.

It's very true.

So so Carton from ninety to ninety seven, a good ninety two, You explode in ninety three second in the brown Low one vote behind wangannin the Australian captain and vice captain in a couple of years or vice captain then captain. Yeah, so tell us about the Carlton mob, tell us about the stars that were playing there, and you just see what you did.

You try to get your.

Forty Yeah I did. Yeah, Well Kernow was captain, so that's a good start. Silvani, Bradley, Yeah, Ratten and Dean and yeah, like we started to build a team.

Yeah, very young Koda, yeah, very young. Yeah.

Then Spalding come across, yes, yeah, and camp brilliant things like that, So okay, yeah, so yeah in the facility Harry as well, Harry Madden.

Yeah.

And so for the first time, you're thinking Premierships were building something, you know.

Or that pretty ordinary ninety two yeah, pretty average. So that was It's that it was a progressive up. Really made the Grand Final.

Yeah, absolutely, pretty quick around but yeah it was. And you talked about wanting to get forty You got forty four one day against Melbourne. You didn't get a Brownlow.

Oh yeah, that's that was a bad day.

So you don't you don't think about that until you lose the Brownlow by one vote to Gavin Wangernein.

Yeah.

How did you feel on Brownlow Metal night?

I think that was about the last game as well. So I thought I was gonna within the Brownlow.

Yeah yeah, round ten, Round ten Melbourn Princess.

Yeah, I should have got throw anyway anyway, that even the umpire deliberately didn't vote for me, that's the that's the fact.

Yeah, on the night itself, like we think now you have to go back through all those games and we've got champion data and stats like we were. Was it obvious to you? Hang on, what about the forty four vote? But it was obviously what about the forty four possessions?

Yeah?

Even then it was so crystal clear. You're like, hang on, what's going on?

Because Milaner got three, he had sixteen possessions.

Yeah, so I Scott two, we had nine, and how he got one? He's a rock one but had so I thought I was a chance to get one, you know. Anyway, it didn't happen, and he deliberate didn' vote from me, and that the other umpire told me that as well.

Yeah, Murray Business murried so on.

So on the night of the Brown La Metal you're thinking to yourself, why did I not get the votes?

How bad was your You know, you were pretty bad.

To running night a running with him for years, so no doubt about it.

So could you imagine could you remember what you would have said on that day round ten?

Well, honestly, I don't think I would have said much because I had the ball that much and I was playing well and kick a couple of goals as well, and yeah, honestly, I don't think.

I would have, but I had previously no doubt about it.

Yeah, and for it me too, so I went back the other way too.

Yeah.

Yeah, so you missed that in the Brownlow.

And then like obviously, eventually Murray Bird makes the confessional I think the teams again, Yeah, I think so. Yeah that basically I was told by russo you know I was going to vote for him, like, well, has he helped you out there?

So how did that develop?

And that obviously and then eventually you and Peter Jest considered legal action against against the AFL and against.

I Reckon.

It was probably ten years later he saw me the Brownlow. He said, oh, can I talk to her? And he wanted to apologize whatever, and he told me the story what happened. He said that he came in and said who do you? Reckon got three? He said, oh, Williams was best and he said, no, I'm not voting for him. Who's going to get to and he said Williams. He said, no, I'm not voting for him one, not over him. That was it because he was a senior umpire And to me,

And what and what? And when Mary's telling you, it's like you just your draws dropping? What are you thinking?

I knew he delivered it in vote for me, Yeah, because you hadn't had to because I got three bodes in every paper in the world and every in the world or whatever.

But and he just confirmed it. It was good.

And so you guys, I think did you go up there and meet him at some stage? Just talking to Petges.

Yesterday, I met him how many months?

And did he sort of confirm it and then didn't.

Want to go on with it?

Which is fine, Like he didn't he didn't want to go on with it, which but he definitely did tell me.

And how close were you to launching legal action again?

No, we I'm always I'm over it now and I'm not over it.

You can see you are. You're not.

But I just think it's yeah, like I got in trouble every time I did something wrong, like big trouble, and you know Empire does deliberately does that.

I just Recoonen. Yeah, it should be something from him what he did.

And Russo denied that story with Murray Byrd and said there was no causion there as well, where's your sense of injustice to think, yeah you could have you should have had it. But three brown lows, trible brown law medal is probably skilled and like it's it rolls off the tongue.

I like the sound of them. Yeah, I like the sound of that. It didn't happen like I'm honestly, I am over it, but yeah.

I just think it was nothing ever happened to him.

What was it like when you know, when you're sparring with umpires, there's a free kick?

Now, what was it like? Gold spink Those blokes will tell us take.

Used to umpire the game as well, don't worry, And a lot of blokes did.

Yeah, you were able to do it back then.

Like there was a lot of but a lot of times I was obviously playing and you know, you haven't got much time.

But there's guys, you know Cameron and that what you're doing, you swear, you swear back at you.

It was just Peter Mark around wasn't always vindictive. Yeah, it's just a lot of going on there there yeah, yeah, yeah, there just was and yeah, and then there was there was one umpire originally, and then there was two, and then there were three.

So yeah, it's just more to swear.

That ninety three season essendence sort of come from the clouds, didn't they? Absolutely?

I think you you know, you had matched them well and truly through the year.

And what happened in the Grand Final? Do you think Diesel?

Yeah, the baby bombers, they baby bombers. Yeah, they just got going and we couldn't stop, couldn't do it about it. Yeah, they had that speed they Yeah they did.

Michael Long and yeah, it's not that Yeah.

So you never got your nose broken.

But in that forty four point defeat, Sean Denon was on report for striking Williams and he got a broken nose.

Yeah he did.

Yeah, did you wake him?

Well, he got five weeks for suspension that day whacking mate.

Yeah, okay, and then I took him down the halfward flank and broke his knaves in the third quarter.

You didn't get any work suspension.

Or I didn't get any Yeah, I saw busy the tribunal because I was there.

Yeah, he took him down to the deep water.

And there were sixteen cameras there, he said, he said, not one of them got it.

So he took him to the NFL blind spot. Basically, you knew where to go. Again, we can laugh at this now, would say that's brutal. But watching, watching your frame of mind, I'll drag him down there. He won't know what's coming. How does that play out?

Yeah, that's true. But like.

He punched me in the mouth and got five weeks the first quarter, Like, we don't do that.

I wouldn't have done anything.

Yeah, sorry, How if you're going to punch a blake, what would you do? You wait until he got he went to the ball for the first time, You didn't go How would you set it up?

Yeah? That one I was well set up.

I knew I was going down there and yeah, just turned around and punched him in the nose.

Yeah that'll do.

That'll do it.

Yeah.

Did have a few running stouches with Sean Denham, didn't you. Yeah he was a tagger and he was a pest. Yeah.

Yeah, he's trying to stop me all the time, and that's the way it was.

Did you respect taggers like what they were trying to do, or you just like bugger off, you know, go find the ball.

No, I wouldn't say I respected him, but I knew what they were trying to do.

And there's different.

Types negative ones. You run someone run off your taller ones.

Yeah, they tried everything, the wronger ones. They tried everything. Is there still a place in modern footy for taggings?

You reckon?

Do we not do it enough? Now?

I don't think we do it enough?

So ninety four so you win the Brownlow again, you're the a f l P A m VP the Australian captain.

Was that as good as a season as you had? You know what your best season was?

Nah?

I find it hard. There's a lot of good ones of you. No, I do. I just I was very consistent.

Yeah, but ninety four was actually because I had a generator knee as well, like yeah at the end, and ninety four was pretty cool because I I did like a rehab pre season by swimming hardly trained on the track and I just tried to look after it because I was getting the stage I right to drain it. I drained in the Grand Final. Ninety three was that's

That was pretty amazing.

Yeah, and that was at a time when it was not hard to get bround like votes, but no one was getting forty five like Ripper.

Yeah, well thirty was the highest.

Yeah, that's a lot.

You wake Robert Harvey in one of those contests your fifteenth career report for striking?

How'd you get off of that one? Did you wake him?

I might have wacked him in the stomach or something was.

Like nothing wasn't wasn't worthy of losing the Bround.

I half sort of ben over and squealed a bit.

So it wasn't something you should have been suspended now it would have been Chris Grant style.

Yeah, correct, at hungry were you to win a premiership? You know you then fall short again in ninety four finals. Yeah, you're pushing really hard.

You've played a better part of good sides Melbourne and Geelong success. Fine, Yeah, absolutely. I think Geelong had blokes out in that game they did. There was a famous game, wasn't it. It was had about three or four or five bloaks out the hunger to win that premiership in ninety five. What went through your mind then? And famously David Parking threw pretty much the keys to the players and said you might take.

Over and they did something like that. The Yeah, so we were old like Collingwood are now you know where there's no way they can do this and there's stuff that they're gone and really, yeah, that was pretty much what was after ninety four.

How did he change?

He's talked about had like a transformation, as you say, empowered the players as well, but knew he had to change as well.

Well.

He reckons you've got a psychologist in which he did, and he pretty much said to David, look, you've got the best resource here of any club is the older players and the experience, and just let them do more, let them be more involved in the team stuff and the decision making. And yeah, and that was yeah, pretty much what happened. And yeah we got going and and this team was ready as well, a few younger guys coming as well, and yeah, just sort of gelled together.

And I think I missed two games that year.

We lost both of them, Kildren and Sydney games.

It's going to say because you got beaten by sixty one point back to back weeks, you know, ten goals each.

Anyway, you're pretty good.

When all of a sudden, No, it was just a

Yeah, I even knew that.

Well, so yeah, so I didn't know that either, But there was all that talk.

I think I didn't. I don't think I got reported, I was injured. I can't remember, honestly, I can't remember.

But that you did. You feel invincible, that team, that team feel almost invincible.

We started to yeah when we got going ten row twelve, and then you know, people, everyone's we have to lose one, and then we pretty much said we're not going to lose one, and we just kept powering on.

And it was it right that you got can cuffed in the Plimitary final. Again, you wouldn't play. If the rules were they as they are now, you wouldn't play.

I did get knocked out a bit accidentally.

Actually what happened, Guy's should bump me and I just yeah, yeah, it was an accident, which anyway, my reflex was went good that night.

And you and again you were playing the rules didn't prevent you from doing it. You know, he would have played if you ha knocked out? Really, but it was do you remember that any awareness about it? Look, I'm not one hundred percent for a Grand Final.

Yeah, there's a little bit of it. Yeah, I remember. And then.

Parking said to me early week, I want you to play ford pocket as well. I thought I was cast.

Did you ever played forward pocket before?

I'd always played center?

What was the conversation? Like? How did it get?

It was? Wasn't good? Nice said I'm not going going forward, so I shouldn't say sweat.

He's already done it if you don't.

Anyway, Stick said to me Thursday, look you're going to have to go forward, and yeah, I said, well, well I will. I did the first center bounce and I went forward.

And why did he explain that? How did you want to get in there midfield?

But they were you.

Yeah, he just wanted to put change it up in there, and yeah, that's just the way it worked out. I went forward and it wasn't that hard.

Defense charges into attack, the past, go down the ward.

You had your battle that day had thirty five and won a Norm Smith and the first player I think at that stage to yeah, Premiership medallion, brown Low, Norman Smith, those early minute moments again, sorry Mackett of that contest, so you get belled at her forward, Rice gets belted.

I think was Timmy McGrath. It was.

It wasn't eighty nine, but it was like you box are just trying to take each other's heads off, and I'm like, you know, and then finally Bradley kicks the first goal early on and maybe it settles, but it was it was pretty violent.

Yeah, it was.

Gary Hacking was all over it. Yeah, but that's just expected. But yeah, I first kick I got, I was left foot. I only even had a shot I reckon and I kicked it out of bounds on the ground, I think. And I was that nervous, yeah, And I just couldn't believe it. And I just said after that, look, just pull yourself together.

And yeah, you know, that was it.

But I was so nervous, Yeah, because you work so hard to get to that big stage again, people think what you're thinking, and everyone thinks they're just out there all happy and playing. Well, it was your birthday too, wasn't it. It was your birth thirty second birthday, that's right.

This is the nervous as you've ever been in a game, given the expectation, given you're the dominant team, you know you can't lose the unlosable.

Yeah, that's right, part of that pressure. Yeah, you end up.

I think you won the qualifying by thirty and you win two finals by sixty odd moments in that game, you know, you get a beautiful handball from sticks, you know, set shot, beautiful one from forty Maine is remember those goals?

Yeah? I do, mainly because of the footage.

But we had a reunion other day of the week this year, thirty years this year, So yeah, I remember all the goals and I think I kicked five three. I should have kicked eight. Eight would have been nice, but you and the first kick of you bounds. I just wanted to kick more than sticks. He kicked five as well. I just wanted to kick six.

You know what's like that last quarter of that game, You know, the euphoria knowing you've got it one, knowing that you've got that legacy piece in your almost the Paddy Dangerfield style legacy Grand Final.

Yeah, no, that was the best feeling. I go three quit time calls in the look that's not over yet. We're fifteen goals up. Color he's saying the right things, but yeah, I think.

Yeah when you start thinking.

Also, honestly, I didn't really think about that much. Honestly I didn't. And Kudo always says he should have won it. She played a great game as well, so and Deanie And there's some serious but that's just the way it worked out.

How did Carlton celebrate back then? Famously it's the last premiership that they've had. How did you celebrate? How big was it? You know, big Jack's there, it's.

It was huge and we were rewarded.

Did you get a little bit extra out of it as well?

I remember the after match was that the crown another ground with the hide or something? Yeah, yeah, he said ten sponts of sand up and he said ten grand from you ten ten. So he raised seventy grand for our footy trip in about one minute. So we had a footy trip. Yeah, when overseas and stuff. So that was cool.

And was Parking right to play you forward in that game?

Yeah? Maybe right? Yeah, the other way it worked out, it couldn't have worked out better. Smarter than aise.

Yeah, Williams was a unanimous choice as best on ground, greeted by a huge roar of approval from a delirious Carlton Masses. It was Greg's thirty second birthday, the Blues claimed a sixteenth premiership on a sixteenth successive win, and the pigeon Todd kid who couldn't run out of sight in the dark night it was blessed with uncanny ability, had reached his finest hour. It might have been Daryl Tims again, it might have been mixed Shane, What does that make you cool?

It was cool? Yeah, yeah, No, and capinot my career. As I was saying again, it's pretty big hole feels no premiership as well. No, it's just cool to have that one.

Yeah.

The next year Diesel like that's when their knees start really hitting in sort of ninety six. How tough did you do it at stages with those knees?

Yeah, I did it last four or so years. I was just deteriorating, Yeah, unfortunately. And yeah I couldn't train as much, which I always try to train as much as anyone. Really, Yeah, just a just got worse. You just can't keep up.

In the end. I was thirty four when I finished it. Yeah, yeah, you couldn't run anymore, you know.

Yeah, So ninety seven round one you get nine games for pushing Andrew Coats.

Lady's hand on umpire Andrew Coats in round one.

No one knew where it would lead a subsequent challenge taking the AFL in and out of court. Williams initially succeeding in having the suspension quiet the umpire.

You're in a pushing shove with your old nemesis, Sean Denham. You get done for unduly interfering with an umpire. You may have caught him a fat so and so, but explain that that circumstance to us because you're pushing and the umpires in the way.

You didn't go out of your way to push an umpire.

It was just like reflex action, as as Coats would say in the letter in the tribunal case, while trying to persuade Williams not to pursue the matter, Williams told me to go away and simultaneously pushed me in the chest. I believe this is a reflex action and one that was the result of sheer frustration and get directed to him. He says, At no time did I feel threatened or interfered with it to extent that would warrant a serious charge.

What's your recollections of the whole drund No.

That's good comp by Codes, I believe about nine weeks now now, Pier said it.

So what's happening to you and Dan? I'm just sparring each other like you did the whole way through.

I wouldn't shake my hand out of the game, like instead of just telling him off. That's all Codes came in and I just, yeah, just pushed him out of the road.

Really, and for all your battles with players, you shake your hand, post mates, that's your expectation.

Yeah. I didn't like that.

And called him what he might have been, and urging the point at the score.

But Busy was away, yeah, obviouslyas there was some other guy was a chairman.

You're known Busy well, I think it was.

His name was McGuire, right, Okay, there you go. Ye, that's I don't remember anything.

When Eddie's plant. Okay, yeah, so.

His name was guy and he said nine weeks.

But what are your thoughts when you get nine weeks?

So ridiculous?

Yeah, even after the umpires, Yeah, interpretation, now, I got sighted by col over the a f L side.

Of me, that's so did you, which.

Is because famously coached that doesn't report you because he didn't feel he was threatened.

So that all happened.

And then yeah, then the calumn went to court and put a stop on the suspension.

So he kept playing. You kept playing for pure I.

Played the whole year and then I didn't deserve it one week of that. Yeah, so I couldn't play another game anywhere else for nine weeks.

Yeah. I never played another game anyway.

Okay, So yeah, so famously you get to a round seventeen and the suspensions renstated and you retired immediately.

What was your thought process at that stage? You knew you're done?

Yeah, I was happy to go.

It was a bit of a year to the AFL too, like you're not going to get me.

Yeah that's good. Yeah that was a bad decision.

Yeah, did they have an in for you? Do you reckon days? Like I don't.

I don't know about Infodore.

Yeah, but I probably deserved most things, but that one not No, not that one and not the Russo one.

No, I didn't deserve that either.

And so normally, like you know people, if you you know you get suspended and that's there ainy of your career. It's like a low point, but you were done at that stage, you'd achieved at all. It wasn't any feeling of like, you know, this is not the right way to go out.

No, I didn't worry about it.

Yeah stuff, and they couldn't get you.

I was happy to go like I was really done then, and yeah, really happy with everything I did.

What was what was the decision to retire? Did you talk to you know, like, what was the right take us into parking?

And I said, he just said look times up. Yeah, And I said, I agree, So it was good.

I have a big an influence on your career with the late part of your career. Was Parker.

Yeah, he was amazing coach. I really enjoyed playing for him. And yeah, you talk about or blokes, he could talk like god, he was a world champion. Yeah, he was inspiring everything, different thoughts here and there. Often every week I'd sit in there on Thursday after train or before and just talked to him twenty minutes about footy or whatever.

What do you reckon?

What would have happened if Carlton had have given you that option in the first place. How good a player would you have been? Would you have been the same or was it that kick in the pants early doors that really said you know stuff you Blake's.

Yeah, no, I think there's a bit of that. Definitely the kicker kicking the ass. But yeah, I just think, yeah, well, I haven't really thought about too much, but I know eighty one eighty two would have been good.

Yeah, pretty good, pretty good size. We've had three premierships rather than the one there. What's been your life since Diesel? You've still involved in Carlton and stuff like that.

I still love footy at the moment, I'm director of footy and stuff and on the board, so I love being part of the clubs.

Still.

Yeah, I've really enjoyed that. Not gone as well as we want to, but we'll get back to it one day. And yeah, no, I'm just I've done businesses and printing and stuff, but I'm pretty much clear now and just

Six grandkids and flat out Wow.

You had some concussion issues, but your memory loss seems to have You said to have been able to final way to get back to it. You've done a lot of exercises or just briefly tell us about a bit of that part of your journey.

Yeah, see to you. That's I've been finding that for a long time.

I believe I'm damaged, I really do, but I cope and I'm good. But I do a lot of things, yeah, exercise and actually my Carnivalso I really think that helps as well helps, and I feel like I'm doing everything possibly can.

You got to a stage where, like you sort of said, you couldn't remember the ninety five Grand Final, but is it fair to say you feel like you've recovered some of that memory?

Nah, Now I can't remember anything about any game I played, Honestly, I can't remember, yeah, getting married or yeah. I just don't think it's normal to be able to Yeah, I know footage from the ninety five Grand Final and stuff like that. I know I was there. Yeah, but it's just a bit frustrating when you don't remember the main things that happened.

So yeah, so you're almost ashy way through, Like you've seen the highlights. You can tell us stories about them, but you actually can't remember to find.

Details, that's right, No detail? Ye?

Scary? Is it scary?

Yeah? It is, I feel it is.

I remember Andrew Driti said he might have a concussion, but hen't. He hasn't forgot how good he was. I thought that was a good line. But no, concussion is not funny though.

No, it's not. And is there something we can do more to, you know, to stop the incidents of concussion happening. It's hard. It's a combat sport.

Do you think there is? Yeah?

Not, Just like I said, I'm not. I'm trying to do everything I can for myself and that. But it's more the you know, like even the w players who play now and my grandsons who's playing, you know, like just more the next generation of you don't want to you don't want you to keep getting And I remember studying it years ago. Even the best neuroscientists in America. Like I said to him, my son played grid iron. He's fifteen. He got knocked out on the weekend. You know, how

My twelve year old kids, you play soccer. I've never said you can't play footy. But I'm pretty happy she's not. You know, she's playing soccer. Other than do you want your grandkids to play footy?

Jack's twelve, he plays under twiles. Yeah, he loves it, yep.

But I'm it's like the umpiring, it's like the the bump's gone. You know that all those sorts of things help. Even training, I think it's an issue still for us, even at our a far level especially, it still is no need to be belling each other up training.

It's just ridiculous.

In the NFL is they.

Don't allow to, you know, certain sessions and that's it. But yeah, we've still got a fair way to go.

And obviously you've had some scans that you know, CT is only diagnosed, you know, when you pass away.

What makes you think you've got CT?

I think there's some good scans that show damage. There there is and it wasn't a good scan, No.

Morrisom is that what level of detail do they give you a lot of those meg scans there which a lot of what are your meg scans tell you?

I pretty much said that I was eighty years old type thing, like we're just pretty damning.

Yeah, what do you think about in the future? Like Mark mcclaul's battling with his own issues right now. But what do you think about the next twenty years and how what does that leave you with a sense of trepidation?

Yeah, now I concerned about it. Just like I said, try and do everything I can. Yeah, and just as healthy as you can. And I don't do as many crossweads my wife yet, but I probably should do more stuff like that.

So like if we as you say, like I don't have to mandate instead of contact through pre season. Everyone's all had ten contact sessions or you're allowed. That makes some sense to me.

Maybe none.

Yeah, you still do tackle technique and stuff, but you don't have the full.

All those micro concussions or whatever you call them, all those the compounding is the problem.

It's not just the concussion.

And then you look, you talk about W like I really get upset about the W like umpiring. It's not the umpires false the it's the AFL's decisions with in regards to women, like five six tackles in a row of you know, there's in the back, there, there's around the neck, there, there's holding the ball. They're like, just just be a little bit more Tigy touch wood and play on pay it and let's go. Especially with the women. I think they want to be the same as us all the time. But I just think.

It's very scary for the women. Yeah, I don't. I don't enjoy it at all when they fashion each other up.

Last one.

Sorry you go, RAFFI just some of the players you've helped across the last twenty Joe Watson, Yeah, who else? Maybe if you've done a lot of that technique technique, Yah, the technique, the tackling technique and the handble technique with.

Well Joe's one, Tom Mitchell's big one.

I spent a lot of time with am Patrick and Welsh and spender time lock in the island. Yeah, and have a lot of good players gone Okay, yeah, No, there's been a lot of good players.

But you enjoyed that Diesel. You enjoy that side of working with people.

And yeah, I'm coming up.

I'm doing a online Yeah, skills development program coming up, So give it a plug.

What's it called?

You know, I haven't even named it.

Okay, we'll come back to that one the greatest.

Yeah, But I really think it's a big issue in regards to footy as well, not just our level. I reckon an issue at a far level skill level. It's not to the degree it should be.

And what's the deficit there. I'm not working hard enough and not being taught the right things.

Yeah, that don't work hard enough for my farmers, and they're there a long time a lot, but I just don't think the detail and the technical everyone, like every player I see or watch, I can say, look, technically, he's very good at this, average of that not good at that, and all the players can improve.

But yeah, it's yeah, I had a technique and.

A technical technique that worked, and I was a slow player, but I was as fast as I could be. Low takes marking the ball and handballing and kicking, well that's another that's another level.

But there is a way of doing it better.

And so you've got every single bit of talent out of your body. As you say, you weren't quick, but you maximize every little thing.

Yet, like every i'd like every kid to learn what I did, I really do and girl as well, w player as well, because because there's no like you look at golf, there's about one million coaches out there, but in football, there's not there's really no one that, Look, this is the way you should kick, this is the way you should take the ball, And there's an art to take in the ball, there's an art to protect yourself.

Yeah, every kid should watch my video.

Honestly, I'm not just trying to say because in the AFL don't do it well either.

No, do you ever try to work out.

How to kick on the AFL site, like, yeah, it's a one hundred players, Like I just want to teach kids how to kick, how to spin the ball, that's all it is.

Yeah, do you sit there sometimes and shake your head.

You're watching a game or you're watching it on Telly or whatever, and you go, what's going on?

Yeah, for goal or field kicking or am you're.

Really critical of Paddy doubt one stage there.

I can't remember the exact quote, but it made me think, listen to you now, maybe think you didn't feel he worked hard enough to get the most out of what was the top three pick. So if you feel like it's their destiny to work their ass off to try and maximize their potential.

He was I reckon he hadn't been trained to kick. Probably, Yeah, sorry you picked three. Yeah, yeah, I honestly believe that. I know it's a fact if he had been taught the way I teach kicking, and when he's fifteen, that's when that's the time to get him.

Yeah, it was almost too late by the time when worked with.

But honestly, you can improve ten percent all day if you Because so many players kicked straight, too straight, you might be a everyone face up, face up, one step kicks like it's just it's just the death of kicking.

He's plain that to me, too straight. What's too straight?

Mane?

Well, when you face the person you're kicking and they take one step and chip it across, you know, or switch it or or anything like that.

Yeah.

Yeah, kicking is a powerful action, yea natural, powerful action. And I can show you the way I kicked in the way all the best kicks in the AFL, they

Yeah, it's a side on action.

It's a fact that I prom shirt I should do a story one day when I get this video game on the side thing, because because when you think, yeah, I'm passionate about it, and people, I can talk about kicking all day and I'm happy to debate any person.

In the world.

He's the best kick in the AFL.

Yeah, that's a good question.

There's a lot of good ones, but there's a lot of the don't know what they're doing, which I just find and they think, and you can kick straight, don't get me right like, you can kick it straight.

So you're saying to me, kicks straight is in square your hips up and you.

Just chipped the ball like that.

Yeah, but I'm saying if you're if you're side on, you've got to finish straight.

You've got to be powerful.

But you can still kick straight powerfully.

Yeah, that's the difference.

And you look at someone like Ryan Mice and you go, oh, my goodness, what do you say, hang on his home?

His technique so good on him.

So's he's an extreme hooker, he's extremely What I say.

You should do, come around your body and.

Look at a bit I say hook it a bit that people say, oh I don't hook it, but it's a more natural action.

On all the left footers so much better at the right foots. They hook it.

Better, They hook it more natural.

You watch, Yeah, just keep taking a pharto of him and senders everything in the world. Yeah, left foot technique, little hook powerful action. Is extreme hooker. Sards is an extreme hooker. But they've got great feet and that's what it's about. Your foot powerful foot power.

Yeah.

Yeah, stab part Actually another thing kills me. Follow through. You don't follow through. Yeah, you stab it. You've got to stab the ball to spin it. It's a powerful stab action that causes it to spin. It's all about making the ballspin to where you want to be.

So these were not here to be talking about the current Carton But why too many current Carton players good kicks they when you're the footy director.

That's a really good question one for another podcast.

No comment, no regrets from a footy career that's just got so many soaring highs.

No, Look, honestly, I don't think there's not there's a few.

Wonders, like you said, like to start a Carlton When I first got there, to stay long when I first stayed there, if not leave, you know, like there's a lot of that, but you know, we made decisions to go, and yeah, I like worked out pretty well. I wasn't a one club player obviously, which, yeah, that gets me down a bit too sometimes, which is fine, Which is fine because if he want to be one club play, that's great.

But I couldn't be happy been through it.

This podcast is a production of code Sports. To find out more, go to code sports dot com dot au. Download the code Sports app at your app store.