It's time for one of America's fastest growing game sensations. Oh, this is going to be a bust. It is What If. That's right. We're going to play an exciting episode of What If? Here on Wretched Radio, the game where we create a scenario for some they would consider it to be fantastic. And then we ask them, "What if it's true?" Tony, who's our first contestant today on What If? Todd, our first and last guest, has been hailed as one of the most brilliant journalists of our time, according to
the London Observer. He's a contributing editor, ironically, for Vanity Fair. He was named one of the top 100 public intellectuals by foreign policy and Britain's Prospect. He studied in Cambridge and Oxford, and now he just hates God. He's the author of God is not great. He is Christopher Hitchen. Wow, fancy. Christopher, thanks very much for being with us, sir. Hello, Christopher. We're going to have you play a game show today called What If. Are you game? Sounds all right.
All right. Here's what we've got for you, sir. We are going to play a game. I'm going to create some fantastic scenarios and then you tell me, sir, what your response would be if these things happen to be true. Ready to go? Yeah. All right. Here we here we go. Here's the first one. Now, I realize for you, sir, the author of of of God is not good, that you don't believe in God, but what if God is not great? Excuse me. God is not great. What? now in paperback at fine bookstores everywhere.
Mhm. So what if God actually exists, sir? And what if he actually has provided everything for you? He's granted you life. He has given you health. He has given you food. He's given you the trees to write your screed against him. He's provided you royalties. It all came from him. What if that is true, sir? Would he not have been good to you?
No. Uh he wouldn't because if that were true it would mean that I had an eternal supervising parent who would never die and let me get on with my life never let me grow up would keep me under surveillance but you have sir supervision every every minute of my life constantly asked and constantly asked me to be thanking and praising him. Yeah I think it would be like living in North Korea I I think it would be a horrible outcome. Well, not sure that
that that God is Kim Jong-il. But what if what I said is true? Ask Kim Jong-il, he has a different opinion. Uhhuh. So, if that is the God who's made you and created you, he's allowed you to live your life. Shouldn't that be a sign of kindness to you? No, I I don't want anyone's permission to live my life. Thanks. All righty. Well, it's not that you've been asked him. I think it's survile and one is expected to constantly grovel as a result. All right. Christopher Hitchens, round
two of what if. What if God exists? He's provided everything for you. He's kept you together by the power of his of his word. If that is truly God, if do you believe that that God, if he's provided everything for you, has rights on your life? No. Because why should he? What gives him this right? Because he owns you. He's created everything for you. He's kept your life. I don't want to be I don't want to be owned and I don't recognize anyone's right to own me.
Remember, we're playing a game of what if. I wrote my I wrote my book exactly to teach people to emancipate themselves from the from the man-made slavery of religion. And you're you're giving the perfect instance of what I mean. Nobody I don't acknowledge anyone anyone's ownership of myself. I I know you don't acknowledge it, but what if he is suppose that I grant your premise about him having made me and even treated me well still doesn't give anyone ownership rights.
Anywhere I have these for my children. Okay. So even though he keeps you alive, he causes you to breathe, he provides you food and everything that is good, he doesn't have any rights to tell you what to do, nothing. Does that mean that people who are sick and poor and hungry uh are excuse this uh obligation of thanking someone brokenly for owning them? Well, that isn't a part of the game show. I'm just asking you. Let's play another round here.
I'm sorry. That is that's I I think a question may take the form of an answer. All right. So, here's here's question number three of our little game show called What If? with our special guest, Christopher Hitchens, the author of God
How Religion Poisons Everything, which is a I hope hyperbole, but even so. No, it isn't. Not if not if it postulates that I'm someone who's owned by someone else. All right. So, that would that would ruin everything for me if it were true. Okay. So, ownership is a bad thing of people. Yes. Oh, okay. It's been widely considered. I mean, I know I know the Bible does call for slavery as it calls for genocide, but that doesn't make it right. Yeah. Well, it doesn't. But we're playing what if if
you I don't know. You may you may take the Bible seriously for a while now. Oh, I sure do. What if there's a judgment day, sir? Just what if? What if? I know a crazy scenario for you, but a day when God causes you to give an account for every thought, every word, every deed. How do you think you'd do on that day, sir? Well, I would ask by what right? That's not the question. How would you if someone stops me and says, "I've got a few questions for you." I say, "Excuse
me, I'm in a hurry." Um, what who are you to be posing these questions? Well, what if he's God and he made you and he has the and he has the right? What if the question the most ancient the most ancient question is still quo Warrento? By what right? Mhm. This right can't just be assumed. All right. If it's true, remember we're just playing a little fantasy. I understand. I'm telling you what my reaction would be.
All right. So, how would if he if for instance if he ran you through the ten commandments, his standard of of goodness and perfection, how do you think you'd measure up, sir? Uh, well, on the on the initial burst, which are all about his jealousy and his envy and his self-esteem and how one has to respect that, nicks on those. I don't care for those. Don't don't obey them and never have tried to. Don't think anyone should. Don't think anyone needs to. Same for the Sabbath. Same for the Sabbath.
You haven't done well with that. Same for the same for the Sabbath. I don't give a damn about the Sabbath. Yeah. Murder, theft, and perjury. I know. Thanks a lot. I know without being told that those are not kosher. Mhm. Honor the father and the mother. Rather depends how they behave towards me. And there's no commandment about about taking care of your children. There's no there's no prohibition of child abuse anymore than there's any prohibition of slavery
or genocide in the ten commandments. Um so I don't care about those either particularly. Have you made any grave? Coveting. Coveting, I think, is a good thing because it leads to uh emulation and innovation. It's a spur to do better if you're jealous or envious of other people's property. However, you pretty much I don't approve, of course, it's wrong to take that property. It's not wrong to wish you had it yourself. And I don't, of course, approve of lumping in the women with oxen and asses.
All right. So, specifically, sir, have you ever taken God's name in vain? U if I don't I've never completely known that and this is only in the King James translation uh which is the one I know best quite what that means that you've used God's name in a low way instead of using a four-letter filth word you use the name of God to express disgust. Uh no not in that way. No I don't believe I have. Really? GD? Nothing like that has ever flown out of your mouth. Not as a filth expression.
No. As a as a filth expression dragging God's name through the mud. You've substituted his name with a swear word. Have you Have you ever had God did you ever put God first in your life, sir? Has he ever been number one for Christopher Hitchens? He's been No, he's been nowhere for me as he is in point of fact. So, the first, second, and third commandments you broken, the Sabbath, you admitted to that. I'm sure you were naughty as a child. I didn't admit it. Yeah, but you were naughty as a child.
Excuse me. It's not an admission. It's an assertion. Did your parents ever get upset with you as a child, sir? I dare say they did. are cuz you were naughty. So you broke that commandment. Murder. How do you know that's what it was for? I'm just guessing you're like every other kid I've seen. But that might not mean made them that might not have made them upset. Mhm. Because you It's rather pathetic to have children and then expect them not to be naughty, don't you think?
Mhm. Well, I think the expectation is that they should be Hello. Are you father? Yes, sir. I am. Sir, have you ever committed murder? No. Have you ever been angry with somebody? Um, repeatedly unjustifiably. Yeah. Well, I should better say that I don't want to sound smug justifiably and unjustifiably, fairly and unfairly because the Bible says anger is very important. Yeah. Anger is an emotion without which the human species couldn't do. We're on to deadly sins now, aren't we? Not commandments.
Well, I would I would suggest that righteous anger is good. But if you've been unrighteously angry, then you're you have committed murder in your heart because God examines our thoughts and our intentions and our desires. You should have just asked me if I've committed murder in my heart. I've certainly done that. Okay. Okay. So, you've broken the commandment of thou shalt not murder. What about lusting, sir? Jesus warned that if you commit if you lust in your
mind. So, you've broken the commandment of adultery. Correct, sir. None of your business. All righty. So, what we what we basically done is determined how you'd be doing on judgment day. It doesn't sound like you'd measure up at all to God's ten commandments. Who gives a Well, we're just playing a little game of what if. Yes, I'm playing it. I'm playing it right along with you. All righty. So, what would God do with you? You think it's a game, by the way. What would you do?
I'd rather agree with you. What would God do with you if he found you guilty of breaking his laws? Would he would he send you to heaven or hell? What if? Well, not heaven, I hope. Mhm. So, what would a just God eternity of praise and grobing and thanksgiving would be my idea of hell? Mhm. So, he'd send you I have no idea. All right. If it's true, if he judged you by the standard of the Ten Commandments, you'd be going to hell.
If if you believe in the God of the Old Testament, um not because there's no hell mentioned in the Old Testament. Mhm. It's only with gent the punishment of the dead is not specified. Mhm. There as you just so you know it's only with gentle Jesus meek and mild that the idea of eternal torture for minor transgressions is introduced. Mhm. So speaking I'm not sure you know quite what you're
talking about. So speaking of Jesus, speaking of Jesus, if sir, remember we're playing what if, what if it's true that God exists in the he came to this earth, Jesus Christ, the God man, the savior of souls, and he took the punishment that you deserve for breaking God's moral laws. He died on a cross for you. He rose from the dead and defeated death. Let's say that it's true, sir. He died knowing that you, Christopher Hitchens, would spend all of your calories and energy on fighting against
him, but he died for you anyway. Would that not be the single greatest act of kindness in the history of your life, if not in the world? No, it would not. How come? Because I if I if I if I had had the power or had actually been present, I would have done everything possible to prevent a human sacrifice from being enacted whether the person concerned wanted it or not. Yeah. But but let's just say it it's a bar it's barbaric and if no one has the right or the duty uh to emulate
themselves for me. I don't I don't want it. I didn't ask for it and I'm not bound by it. Yeah. That's not the question though. If it happened, would it not be an act of kindness? No, it would be an act of extreme. It would be an act of extreme presumption saying what I'm doing now binds someone who hasn't yet been born. Takes away my free will. Takes away my autonomy. It gives me no choice in the matter. I I've told it's I'm sorry. It's too bad. The sacrifice has already been
made. You're you're committed. What What is this but a very very crude form of tyranny and intimidation? Well, it seems like you have the right to reject it. You've done a fine job to date. So if it's true, sir, you don't can't you at least admit yes, that would have been an act of kindness. I just don't believe that it happened. No, no, no. I I thought about it quite a lot, but I have I have quite a long
discussion of this in my book. You're not trying anything on me that's original or all that daring or playful. I I I make that assumption and examine it in my book. I say that's here's what my reaction is to this offer. Please look it up and please encourage your listeners to do likewise. But sir, we're playing a little fantasy game. I understand perfectly. I I I'm not I'm not as slow on the uptake as you seem to suppose. How many times do I have to
tell you? I make the assumption along with you and I give you my response to it. No, I don't think it would be an act of kindness. All right. What if it would be a tyrann I think it's a tyrannical act. It's a tyrannical act that somebody sacrificed his life for you. But according to you, he didn't. All right. Cuz he was seen alive very shortly after these supposed events. Yeah. That'd be the resurrection. Did he die or what? Yeah, he did. And rose from the dead.
It's called Easter. been celebrated for a couple thousand years to no effect. Mhm. Okay. I'm sure that it hasn't affected anybody. Supposed to come back in the lifetime of his listeners. Mhm. That was a direct promise. It just depends on your understanding of esquetology. Sir, let me play another round of what if before we close our time together with Christopher Hitchens. What if the Bible is accurate? Sir, I want to share a quote with you from the
Bible. All right, sir. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, his eternal power and divine nature have been clearly perceived ever since the creation of the world in the things that have been made. So that they slash you are without excuse. Does that sound like you, sir?
No. It sounds like St. Paul, right? But does it sound like he's describing you in Romans 1? No. You're not suppressing the obvious truth that there's a creator because you, sir, prefer to live your own autonomous way. St. Paul is near the mark when he talks about the evidence of things not seen and when he admits that most of this is supposition and the things he's claiming to know cannot be known by anyone. Mhm. So, sir, you're familiar with the prince of preachers, Charles Spurgeon, correct?
No. You've never heard of Charles Spurgeon? I've heard the name. I can't sound familiar. Ah, the prince of preachers. He said regarding a fellow like you, somebody who fights and wars against God. Typically, if you want to know the reason why, just follow him home. Sir, is it possible that the reason you rage so much against God is because you just want to live your own autonomous way, living any way that you want to, any lifestyle that you prefer without being accountable to your creator?
I think that's highly probable. Yes. All right. Excellent, sir. We appreciate your time. The co the book is called God is not great. How religion poisons absolutely 100% everything. Sir, we're grateful for your time. Thanks for playing our little game. Anytime. Goodbye, sir. What if this is wretched radio?