Welcome to River Cafe Table four, a production of iHeartRadio and Adamized Studios.
My name is Erda Moraleo Glue. Thank you so much for having me do this. By the way, I'm so otherwise.
It's so nice. It's just an excuse to see you.
It's a good make you go to extreme lengths.
I had to see people.
I did doing this podcast I could get.
It's great.
That's some things else stooped to. Meeting someone in another country often forms an immediate friendship. In twenty nineteen, Urdam, the designer of Beautiful Clothes, and his husband Philip Joseph and I were together in Mexico City. They were days of discoveries, searching for the perfect tequila, breakfast at Nito, our favorite spot, eating every taco and tamali we could find.
A friendship that began on vacation has followed us home to London, where three years later we are still talking, discovering and sharing food together here in the River Cafe with a glass of perfect tequila. That's what we're going to do today.
I'm here to read the recipe of pan fried calves liver with cavalonero. This recipe serves two. In my case, I would be normally eating the entire recipe or by myself, so I'll begin. What you'll need are two thick slices of calves liver, sea salt and some freshly ground black pepper, a tablespoon of extra virgin or olive oil, fifty milliliters of balsamic vinegar, and also my favorite part, fifty millilters of crem fresh. Now to serve, you're going to need
some braised cavalonaro. There's a wonderful recipe for that well, which I won't get into today, but do keep that to one side and keep it warm. Season the liver on both sides with salt and pepper. Brush a large frying pan with olive oil, and when it's very hot, fry the liver for one minute on each side. Very important that it's only a minute. You could even do a little bit less because you want the liver pink. Add the balsamic vinegar and turn the liver so that
it absorbs the vinegar, which will reduce almost immediately. This is the wonderful part. Add the crem fresh and let it melt into the vinegar. Remove and serve on top of the delicious cablonaro pouring over some of the sauce that we've just made in the pan.
Delicious, delicious and beautifully red. Actually, you haven't really looked at that recipe for a while. It's in our very very first cookbook, and as why wonderful Ardam did you choose the recipe?
Liver is a funny thing to serve. It's a very divisive meal, and liver I remember as a child for something that I hated, something my father loved, and gradually as I grew up, I grew up to love liver. And this recipe is wonderful. I've tried it a few times and it's and it's always something I so enjoy. However, my other half, Philip, hates liver, so this recipe that serves two is really truly a recipe that serves me one perfectly, So it's delicious.
If you knew you had an evening on your own, would you say, I think I'll have a liver tonight, Because it's just me.
That is exactly what I do. So if I know that I'm not cooking for both of us, I'll be able to get into offel, which I love. Kidneys, kidneys I love, yes, yeah, absolutely, the kind of and also kind of gamey things. I also really really like it's.
Interesting about this recipe. I was looking at it again and I was thinking that, you know, before we open the River Cafe, Richard and I lived in Paris for six years, and the revelation for me was again the butchers having veal liver, which is so delicate, and the idea that you'd go to buy liver and there'd be a hole liver. They would never have pieces of liver in a tray. They'd bring up the whole liver and they would slice it to the thickness that you wanted.
And the other extreme if you had brains, which is another awful I don't know if you'd like brains. I remember they would bring out the head, the head of the calf and take the brains out, which is kind of extreme for a twenty five year old living from upstate New York in Paris. And then bringing this love
for the old liver back to the River Cafe. We italianated it both through Bosomic vinegar which is made in Modina, and then as you say, the cavalo narrow and when you were growing up and talking just now about growing up with them. It was your father was Turkish and your mother was British. British, so how did that fit in with a kind of education or awareness of food through two very different food cultures.
Well, it's interesting, Ruthie that you mentioned brains, because literally I remember my father cooking brains, and when he would cook brains, my sister and I would literally take refuge in the basement.
It was.
It was a thing.
My father would every so often go on a kind of awful tangents exactly, Well for a seven year old me, it was aw yeah, exactly, it was the awful. But it's such an interesting way to grow up, you know, looking back on our childhood, you know, it was all about contrast. My father would make these wonderful kind of Turkish dishes, amazing stuffed eggplants and dolma and cookde and lukmash and all of these great foods, and of course
contrasted with my mum, who was from the Midlands. She was straightforward English food, cottage pie, sausage and mash and you know, good Sunday roast, all all of those kind of good, straightforward dishes. And the contrast between the two was amazing.
Where did your father grow up? Tell me about this Turkish man cooking this incredible food from his Yeah, this is such an identity.
Well, it's an interesting story. So my father grew up in eastern eastern eastern Turkey, so in a place called Antakia, which is an in an area called Hattai, which is really not far away from the Syrian border Syrian border, yees, so really very eastern. And my father was going to university in Geneva and my mum was working in Geneva at the time.
Like here would it be?
Oh, this is like in the late sixties, early seventies, And so they met in a cafe.
Fell in love save food again.
Yeah, they absolutely fell in love over a dish of some kind. And so they fell in love and then spent many years in Switzerland and then decided to I'm a to Canada, where myself and my twin sister were born.
Do you always cook? Could he get the ingredients? Do you think? In Canada?
Well?
I remember the ingredients were always a big It involved a big family trip to a local Lebanese grocery store called Adonis that was on the outskirts of Montreal, and it was amazing because they had a great selection of Lebanese food and of course Turkish food. You know, keep in mind there's a huge Turkish community in Canada as well. But what I remember the most was both my parents cooking, and there were both avid cooks, and even I remember
my mum making, you know, homemade yogurt. So you'd be having kind of some kind of baked aubergine with my mum's homemade yogurt. And it was, you know, looking back at it, extraordinary, very healthy, great food. As a child, I wanted a hot dog, or I wanted you know, craft dinner, macaroni and cheese. I was, you know, I wanted. I was attracted to foods that were very unnatural colors.
And do you think that was a kind of rebellion or do you just loved a natural other colors?
Unnatural color, the more unnatural, the more I you know, I wanted exactly. I wanted kind of soda that was like bright orange, and you know, all of those things that kids of my generation I think were really attracted to.
Do you still crave a coke and a hot dog or have you left that behind?
I've left that behind, actually, And and I definitely lean more towards you know, my mother's homemade yogurt or a kind of a wonderful you know, roasted eggplant dish from my dad.
As if good Turkish restaurants in London, do you always cook it at home or do you find places that you can go to?
There's some wonderful Turkish restaurants actually, and where we used to live in Hackney, there's a whole you know, extraordinary Turkish community and with that some some really fantastic restaurants.
Food takes you to a culture, you know, that's actually you know, if you asked me about Istanbul, yes in Turkey, I would say, you know, yes, we went to the Blue Mask, we went to the I thought the Bosphorus was probably the most romantic vision I ever had. But I can tell you that practically every meal I had to have the way they cook auber jeans in Turkey, the way the very thin ober jeans with the tomatoes sauce, and that both the delicacy of the food and the
strength and confidence of that food. I thought it was so exciting, the Turkish food diet. And do you work in a restaurant? We told people who love going to a restaurant by themselves and just working.
I actually thought you meant had I ever literally and have you worked in a restaurant? And I did work in a restaurant, and it was the only job I was ever fired from as a waiter. I was fired after day one.
What did you do?
I was given the food to deliver to a table, and I think I might have just discreetly pointed at the table to confirm what direction I was going in, and the pointing perhaps I was gesticulating quite in an animated manner. I didn't think I was. But that was that was it. I had to I had to return my uniform and it was a very short lived career in the restaurant world. In Where was it in London? Yeah? We were in London. Yeah it wasn't. It wasn't the River Cafe.
I was fired my I think my third day of working as a waitress and wouldstock and I just kept telling people, please don't get a cross with me because it's my first day. But actually I think I'd been there a week and I was still making the mistakes.
You designed the most beautiful clothes. I would say that I probably never in all my years, owned a dress with a flower on it, until you gave me the most beautiful dress, which I wore over and over I still wear, and you've given me many clothes your generosity. I wore dress you designed for your wedding. And as one of how in the world, of your career, of your profession, how food merges with fashion.
Of course, every season there's a show, a live fashion shows, which for the past fifteen years we've been able to have twice a year, and it's extraordinary. And of course after the show, there's always a moment where usually I show on a Monday, usually Monday morning, so inevitably I'll have a kind of quite blurry eyed lunch with Philip, my sister and various friends, just a small little lunch after the show. So's it's kind of a funny moment
because you've kind of done this thing. It's a huge body of work that you've kind of put out into the world, that you've been working on for six months, and then it kind of ends with them, just a lovely meal with everyone you really with everyone you really love.
Is it always in London or is it in Paris?
Or is it always in London? Because the show's in London. It's really actually it changes every season because it's dependent on where the show is.
Tell us about the last show.
The last show we were able to show in the Bridge Theater, which was wonderful and it was it was really the last show was a kind of a love letter to the world of ballet, which is a world
I love and very much a world I miss. I think the seed for that collection was probably planted about three years ago when I was invited by the Royal Ballet to design costumes, and there was something about standing in the wings and watching the rehearsals and that kind of moment when the curtains are closed, which is almost kind of slightly hitchcocky in it's like something's about to happen.
The dancer is kind of walking across the stage taking their position, and it was that kind of moment that really kind of inspired the last collection.
So beautiful, there's something so different about them, and also how short they are and how you get in a way, you'd almost say a parallel of cooking, because when I cook, I was I have created something really beautiful and then it's eaten and it's over. Yes, okay, that's it. And seeing your show, seeing the models walking down at Lincoln's Field and then it's over.
Well, you know, it's it's funny, it's exactly as you say. It's that kind of creation of a fleeting moment. And and there's something kind of quite beautiful about having a show that is a fleeting moment. You know, it's that eight minutes that you have to be there. I think there's definitely something about having a live audience that gives it a kind of an electricity.
We talked to an actor does theater. Yes, you know, he described exactly what you described as after the show, you're starving and you go out with your friend or somebody who's in the show, or you discuss. You know, that's the after and then before the show you have to eat because otherwise, but you're there in this pristine environment of fabric and pins, and you know, what do you do about food?
Well, food's really important actually, and I think for a show, we definitely have a moment where the entire team stops, and we really truly stop for about forty five minutes, and we'll generally get something catered that's usually quite healthy roast chicken breast with the salad and you know, something a little bit stodgy to kind of keep everyone going, and particularly like you know, when you have the entire team are on their feet, the models, everyone is, you know,
it's a very kind of it's quite physical, so definitely good to have that moment to stop. And it's a tradition in the studio the night before the show, because usually inevitably it's quite a late night, there is a massive pizza delivery and so pizza is.
Had by all models included.
Usually the models have been and gone by that moment, so so it's all of us in the in the trenches.
Your wedding. Tell us about where it.
Was, Well, it was at the Queen's House. It's an extraordinary beautiful building kind of tucked away next to the Maritime Museum along the river, and it's a very architecturally, a very important building. And my other half, Philip, is an architect. We've been together for you know, over eighteen years, and so to do something really kind of special, to mark that and celebrate it was was amazing.
It was beautiful and I thought all the speeches with your sisters, I remember, I remember yours, I remember Phillips. But at the end of yours. Do you remember you thanked the movement of brave people who had made a marriage between two men possible.
Yes.
I thought that was very moving, and that you took it away from your love to a kind of recognition and gratitude, which was you know, it took us into another part of what love is. It.
It was a very kind of important moment for us both to acknowledge everyone who had actually gotten us to the point where we could legally get married, and it was a battle that had long been fought by many, many people, some of whom are here, some of whom are not, And it felt like it was absolutely appropriate to acknowledge that what we were able to do on that day was something that really wasn't legally allowed until
very recently, which is kind of mind boggling. Really it was a dream, and I really truly mean that, you know, growing up, the idea that I would be able to you know, fall in love and marry someone you know, you know, twenty five years ago, that was something that would be impossible.
And I think that it would be interesting to know about gender and cooking, you know, gender and food, because again, as I alluded to before about father's not cooking and mother's cooking, or how certainly my husband's generation, Richard, I mean, he was very definitely kept out of the kitchen, you
know somehow. And then when I spoke to Christian Annapoor, who grew up in an Iranian family and her father had such ambitions for her that there was a feeling that if he went into the kitchen that somehow that's as a woman, that would be your role. Yes, you know, and I've heard of other stories of fathers who really encouraged their daughters not to go in the kitchen. Yes, I would say, it's a bit like me. Not my generation. We didn't want to learn how to type because we
thought we'd be secretaries. Yes we had English degrees, but we would be a secretary. And so do you think that men in the kitchen is something that is now more recognized or acceptable or.
I think it's a really interesting question actually in gender and growing up was a very interesting thing. Also having a twin who's the opposite sex, and you know, going through every single stage of your life as someone who is a part of you, but the female. So I think, you know, right from the beginning, these kind of constructs of gender were kind of almost like not applicable. It didn't I didn't, you know, I would play with my
sister's toys. My sister would play with my toys. So it wasn't specific roles for specific people within the family. And you know, when it comes to cooking and my father and my mother, they definitely very much worked as a team. I would never ever think that like cooking is a woman's role or or associated with a gender. That was just not something I ever I ever did.
Actually, do you and Philip cooked together? Do cook well together? Do you argue? Do you have fun like your parents did? Is it competitive or is it's sort of different because he's he really loves food.
Philip loves food, but he's also very specific on the foods that he that he loves and also quite vocal about the foods he doesn't like. But yeah, no, Philip's an excellent cook and also on my list of recipes to read was going to be a lemon tart, but that would have been dishonest because Philip is the one who has made numerous times the lemon tart. So Philip's
also an excellent baker. He's very he's very good. It's exactly that it's the kind of like exact kind of measurements, which I will admit that I'm a little bit more of a free spirit in the kitchen.
So did you put more pisama vinegar in your calves liver?
I might have.
I might have freestyled a little bit with the vinegar. I certainly the crumb fresh, I will admit to.
You, eat it every chance you get.
I love crumb fresh. And actually the last time I had crumb fresh, really truly was when Philip last weekend made a lemon tart. He made your lemon tart, which
is quite a big lemon tart. And so the rest of the evening was spent kind of dividing the lemon tart, wrapping each piece in wax paper, perfectly decanting crumbfresh, and then sending off a piece to my sister and then another piece to another friend so that we wouldn't sit in front of the TV and eat the whole thing, the entire lemon, the whole thing.
Yeah, what might happen the foods that we go to when we feel, you know, that we want to eat not just because we're hungry, but because we need some sort of comfort. And I was wondering what would be your comfort food.
I would say my comfort food because we used to do on occasion at home and not even on occasion, quite often have spaghetti bolonnaise. And my sister can make the most perfect spaghetti bolonnies, my twin sister, and so I would describe my comfort food as her spaghetti bolonnaise. It's incredibly comforting. Yes, makes it quite sleepy actually after you you.
Know, there's something about the meat and the past. Anyway, thank you, you're my comfort. Thank you for coming.
You're mine. Thank you so much.
Thank you, thank you so much for having.
Me well as spahetti balladays I love it. And yeah, comfort food Okay, thank you.
Dan, Yeah, thank you.
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River Cafe Table four is a production of iHeartRadio and Adami Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.