Adventure Awaits: A Dive into 'Master and Commander' (2003)

Music. Ahoy there, shitmates. Wait, yes. Oh, fucking hell.

That sounded quite like shitmates as well. So you just got to make sure you enunciate if you're going to call people shitmates. Okay. I'm just going to say, I should have been Popeye. Pipe down, Roger. All right, I'll leave it. Yeah. Ahoy there, shitmates. That's even worse. Okay, let's just go into it. We're doing Master and Commander.

I can't keep doing it that is the best of the ones that I've recorded so that's what you're stuck with we're doing Master and Commander the 2003 film with Russell Crowe Paul Bettany and others David Threlfall's in there as well that's the one we're covering it's Dom's movie so not that there is a host in this because I think we're all collectively hosts we all do a cracking job on this podcast but I'm going to hand it over to you Dom I'm going to explain why Master and Commander,

yeah well before i go into that i just like to reassure all our panicked viewers that i am back on the pod i know there have been a lot of concerned letters being sent in a lot of emails being pinged i know we had some major sponsors who are on the verge of backing out oh can i just check how many we had how many emails we had i think the kindest way that i can put it is not many yeah our female listeners leaving in droves yes no i'm sorry i

wasn't here for the f1 pod everybody but i'm back for a trip back to 1805 and yeah the high seas so before i kind of go on about my thoughts on the actual film itself i guess just explain a little bit about why i chose it why it's important to me i haven't got a treasure trove of memorabilia like charlie has for jaws but i have got this uh which is.

There you go yeah so patrick o'brien master and commander i remember really clearly being in a bookshop one day this is before uh smartphones had destroyed my converse uh concentration span and i could still actually sit down and read the book cover to cover looking for some inspiration didn't know what i wanted to read so i'm just browsing on the shelves and caught my eye on the front cover it says the greatest historical novelist of all time that's from the times newspaper

or the london times as perhaps our american viewers call it but yeah so i thought what a recommendation surely that's going to be a good sign so i bought the book sat down and read it took a little bit of getting into but loved it and there are 20 books in that series and i sat down and and read them all you know back to back over the course of i don't know how long it took me probably over a year but um but but i did and i absolutely loved

the the books and always have done recommended them to my dad and he he loved them too but it's not like i'm obsessed with british history i'm obsessed with kind of i've never read the sharp novels for example which is the kind of equivalent books to these set on land during a similar period but they are just just just incredible so for me it's um all about the kind of characterization the historical detail of them just uh you know so real real real favorite so when they announced that they were

making it into a film that obviously i was going to be first in line at the cinema to to see that and it's a it's actually a combination of the first two books and that's why it's got this kind of long slightly clunky formal title. So it's Master and Commander, the far side of the world. And I think it's staggering to me that this is an era that's not better understood and well known than it is. So some of the kind of key elements.

Battles trafalgar and waterloo at least in britain and european history are i suppose those are well known but uh but but actually it's glossed over in schools and even in the british education system we don't really learn enough about it i just think it's a fascinating era that was really vividly brought to life in certainly the books and i would suggest as well in the films themselves although i'm sure there's some debate to be had about that and i'm looking

forward to hearing what you to think about it so i think it's safe to acknowledge that it wasn't a commercial success or it wasn't wasn't a flop it did turn a profit i think uh sort of 225 million dollars on 150 million dollar budget because these films set open sea are going to be expensive to film and to produce but when you look back at it in hindsight it's possible to find faults with it i think if this had been a film made in the 50s or 60s then i think it would have been a smash

hit I think it would have been a kind of a household name, but I think it just by 2003. It probably, the world had moved on.

British naval supremacy, gunboat diplomacy, these aren't topics that were popular at the time, let alone in this post-woke era in which we live now. So that's for me why it wasn't more successful than it was, but I think it really deserves to be better remembered and better loved than it is.

So what's not to love? You've got a master director in Peter Weir, so Truman Show we've done in the not too distant past Dead Poets Society the only Robin Williams film I think I can actually stomach Gallimpoli, Witness all quality films.

Master and Commander got 10 Oscar nominations we'll do Oscar Bants yeah I'm looking forward to it, I was just pausing for the theme tune to be edited in there but yeah you're good Oscar Bants 10 nominations including a win for cinematography and I think that that was well deserved it's for me beautifully filmed film it's an intelligent film yeah it's full of blood and guts and gore and medieval, levels of violence and the scenes at sea just must be some of the best ever

committed to film that bit where they go around the Cape of Cape Horn is incredible and, It's quite a touching film as well, the relationship that Aubrey and Matra and the two central characters have with Blakeney, the youngest of the lieutenants. He learns to be a naturalist from one of them. He learns to lead men from the other. I think it's really touching. So for me, for all those reasons, it's a 10 out of 10 film.

I'm not blind to what are two faults that it might have. And I think it is a curiosity that it's perhaps a film out of time in some respects.

But yeah, I love it. I could watch it any day of the week and I thoroughly enjoyed revisiting it for this podcast so gentlemen the floor is yours oh who you're in charge i think i'll go for you masturbates i always think of you first oh crack it you always think about okay let's not go there.

Youtube algorithm starts flickering i i can't i'll be honest with you i can't say that i was looking forward to watching it because i do remember watching it vaguely watching it at the time but you're right when you point out that it was competing with other you know we were in the era of sort of american pie american pie clones that sort of 99 to 2005 they were just close that that was the thing that seemed to be what were not drawing people to the theater but jane silent bob

and all that sort of stuff it it cinema had a weird time at the start of the millennium i i couldn't remember like having fond memories of it as well so when i sat down to watch it i was kind of like oh god here we go now i'll be honest it takes a bit it takes a bit of getting getting into it doesn't grab you right from the start but i have to say good lord you know there is.

The way to the way that i thought of describing it on on a very low on a very low scale a very high scale very low scale i do like that shot in the princess bride of where they think they've being followed by the Dread Pirate Roberts and you see that getting closer and closer and closer and closer and I know it's just a kid's fairy tale thing and it's a great film um but there's that that feeling of dread of something coming close to you but there is something

to be said for it's almost like Jewel it's almost like you know a bit of Jaws in there there's also a bit of this like, And right at the end, I'm sorry to skim between the star, obviously you get that, is there something there or isn't there something there? And having a look at it, suddenly you see that beautiful flash in the smoke and you're like, oh, shit, it's on.

But I like films with tension. Crimson Tide is one that just comes to mind because I think the tension in throughout that is brilliant. But my goodness, the bit where they get the idea of camouflage at the end. And you're going creeping up. I'm like, I don't know why I don't remember this. Because this is, and I am going to swear, I don't care. This is fucking good. This is really fucking good. And I loved it. I loved the bit. I'm going to forgive its faults. There are faults in it.

I'm not a big fan of Russell Crowe, but even he did a good job. Not a massive fan of Paul Bettany. But I'm going to give it 8 out of 10. I was fully prepared to come in halfway through and give it 4 out of 10.

I'll be honest. and then right at the end i went well you managed to do that it's a bit like the good the bad and the ugly i thought it was going to be awful it turned out to be far far better than i could have i could have imagined so it's just it's an eight sorry i'm just going to dock the two from it but yeah absolutely good choice really good choice well thanks that's that's great i mean uh and i'm very fully prepared for somebody not to like my choice

of film i'm just very mindful that i once gave Blade one out of ten despite knowing the fact that you forgot about that sorry I'm giving it three despite the fact that you got it, tattooed on your arms so yeah I'm not a first to put in a, Put the boots in. I got some of my tattoos done as well. Yeah, so that's good. I never thought I'd heard American Pie cited in the review to Master and Commander. Just what cinema was going through. Yeah.

Joe, or should I say Roger? Roger the cabin boy. I got to say, I was really impressed with both of your reviews. I think that they were eloquently done. And I think, you know, again, you said a lot of great things and it was very impressive. Oh hey okay it's one of the problems for me is that i don't know the history behind it like you guys did with like britain and napoleonic wars and all that like.

That was something that we really didn't study in school and it just was something that we never really saw in cinema too and i remember going to see this i was a huge fan of russell crow at the time i wasn't a huge fan of of gladiator but i thought he did a great performance in that like not oscar worthy but it just like he had like presence i i felt like he was an up-and-coming rising star and then he did a beautiful mind which i thought was amazing i i felt he deserved the

oscar for that but he screwed himself out of it by acting like a jackass like for way too much during that period it all went to his head and unfortunately that was his chance at oscar and he lost it and then this one came along and i really want to see that especially after seeing a beautiful mind and again i was on a russell crow kick so i was looking forward to it i will say i mean it's just like when i'm watching the movie i think it's just amazingly done i mean you feel

like you're in the period like it's almost like when we saw the like the name of the rose like i wasn't a huge fan of that but they did such a great job of conveying what it was like back then and i feel like they did the same thing with this like how it was like being on this big sailing vessel you know working being on the navy and all that i'm sure it wasn't easy and especially. Was there a draft for the Britons back then or was this voluntary?

I would assume that there probably was a, you had to enlist or you were forced to go into the military yeah you could sign up but a lot of them were press ganged they were you know swept up in it and and then served again initially against their will and and then eventually they kind of got the the life for it but um but yeah but the just as a quick aside sorry to interrupt your flow joe but the reason that a lot of people in this film they don't understand that the the child actors

you know that are playing the lieutenants and things that that was how it was so you enlist if you were part of the officer class you signed up at 12 and that's why agent nelson signed up and then you rose rapidly through the promotion so that by the time you're kind of 1920 you're able to captain and lead the ship yourself so that's kind of historically accurate as well but but yeah but sorry joe no i'm just gonna say i like fuck that i wouldn't want to be in the british navy at

that point i'd probably look like for the other branches in the military that you guys had back then i mean not that i had a choice or anything but it looks really like a grim life to have i mean there's probably some.

Enjoyment on there but it it just seemed and i will say this is like where it affects my score it just seems very depressing and bleak and it's it was i was wondering at the time when i was watching this i forgot that peter weir had directed it if it was like a darren aronofsky movie because it was so damn depressing i mean the things that happened to so many of the crewmen And crew, you know, the crew, I, I don't know. I just, it brought me down.

And I remember seeing that in the theaters, the thing that, that really bothered me the most was that, I guess that, that young guy that, that killed himself by jumping in with a cannonball. I was like, man, it's sad. And I don't, sorry to jump ahead too. And then what happened to the cabin boy and all that, it just so many things. And I was like, damn, it's.

It's one of those movies that, again, I think it looks incredible. It sounds incredible. I think the acting is top tier. You can't fault anyone in this movie for the acting. But my question is, when I'm finished with the movie, how many times am I going to watch this? And I know it's different for you, Dom, because you're a huge fan of the books and this movie. And I know I could see you watching it many times more after this.

And I do hope at some point they decide to bring another one of those books and to make it into a movie, because I think that'd be pretty cool and that'd probably make you very happy, too. But I would say I'd probably give this for me, and a lot of it has to do with rewatchability, is like a 7 out of 10. But I do think it just was so well filmed.

And if I was more of a fan of that period of time and and the British Navy I'd probably give it a much higher score well look you know that that's fascinating to hear your view which is obviously just as as valid and I think that this is probably why it didn't do batteries because it appealed to me absolutely but I think with a few changes they could have made it have a broader appeal so I think that um you know Russell Crowe to to his credit or potentially to

his detriment played it very straight according to the book if it just dialed up the charisma not to kind of johnny depp gurning around in pirates of the caribbean levels but if it just kind of about another 10 more charismatic and then then actually as a leading man that could have been more impactful i think it is missing an american on the crew as well which isn't as far-fetched as it might sound because part of the reason for the kind of was it the 1812 war between

us and britain was that british navy was in the habit of press ganging americans into into service and things it's not implausible that uh that you could have seen that i think i think something to didn't feel quite so european or british specific could have could have added to it but i think um that whilst it didn't just want to the cinema it's kind of almost hbo ready now those series of books to be remade into a series game of thrones has proven there's kind of an appetite for more

of a historical drama but that itself is obviously based on the war of the roses in the in in britain in part at least i mean that did have sex and dragons so that's got Some differences as well. Yeah, it's quite everything. Well, I'd say the problem with something like that is how many times do they get off the ship? You know? Because in this one... Wasn't it just the Galapagos Islands? Yeah, they did.

Yeah, but in the stories, it kind of covers all the... This is actually a bit of an exception to the series. This is filmed off the north coast of Brazil and the Galapagos Islands. Most of it's set within the European theatre because you talk about the historical period, Joan. I think it does benefit from knowing and understanding of the kind of context at the time because in no way I'm trying to patronize you or any of our viewers, but just as a reminder to everybody.

So the context at this time was Napoleon declared himself the Emperor of France and was conducting essentially a land war across Europe. So this was the precursor to the First World War and the Second World War. It wasn't truly global, but it was a European-wide conflict dragging in the armies and the navies of Britain, France, Spain, the Netherlands at the time. It was set seven years after the Battle of the Nile when Nelson defeated Napoleon in Egypt.

And it's six months before Waterloo when Wellington and the Prussians defeated Napoleon for the final time. And it's these events which shape European history, and sorry to anybody who finds this an offensive comment, but European history at the time was essentially world history, because this was the kind of crucible of everything that came afterwards.

And there are direct read across from what happens here to events in the 20th century, which obviously ultimately culminate in the First and Second World War. So this period set the scene for British naval supremacy. And that's, again, not me being naively patriotic. I think that's a genuine statement. And ultimately led to Britain's empire and domination of certainly the Eastern trade routes and a rivalry and a competition with the United States as well. So it's just, it's fascinating.

And some of these things are so closely fought, like Waterloo. You know, that's a turning point in history, could have easily gone a different way, in which case modern Europe would have looked and felt very different as well. And I just think it's a sadly neglected part of the British curriculum, certainly, and kind of world affairs. I think it's just too damned expensive to film on the seas. You know, they use the same,

what's the word I'm looking for? Dry Dock and all the kind of places they filmed Titanic. They used all that and reused it for this film as well. And that's obviously not a cheap way of making cinema as well. So I think that's kind of- They use green screen right now. I'm sure they would. Yeah. Yeah.

And that I think would be to its detriment. So I guess I've waffled on enough about perhaps the historical context, but in terms of the actual film itself, what you see on the screen in front of you, for me, the strongest part of the film above everything else is that cinematography, the fact that they don't just use green screen but they do have these set piece you know whether it's the battle or that it's just the ships which are just beautiful things yeah absolutely.

Incredible and these aren't like that part of the plot here is this isn't the british flagship this isn't this isn't nelson this is a kind of a mid-level captain fighting on his wits in an obscure part of the of the world so he's not got the greatest ship and and it's his leadership that brings it but yeah those scenes of the ship at night and that ink black sea that's that's pretty amazing and then charlie you've already cited it when we get the first view of the french and it's,

in the shadows do you see them do you not and the the lieutenant doesn't have the courage to beat to quarters and then you see the flashes you see it before you hear it and and then suddenly it's carnage on the deck that's just so well done i thought so well done so well done should we look at the two ever look at the trailer i'm still reeling by the fact that you think russell crow can turn up the charisma he can't he doesn't

have any to turn up anyway on that bombshell let's go and let's go into the trailer here we go.

Music. Just a broken house You're in very good hands Seven weeks sailing and he happened on our exact position Well then perhaps he was looking for us Damn he was good An act of war will cripple them With basic repairs we can get home as we are We're not going home, The power of nature will threaten them Our enemy has more than twice our guns, more than twice our numbers, and we are supposed to stop it. Torn between fulfilling his duty. Captain's not called Lucky Jack for no reason.

Phantom or no, Lucky Jack will have it. And the lives of the men he commands. Steady! He must face the invincible. He fights like you, Jack. A hunter becomes the hunted. Well then, there's not a moment to lose. Music. Two feet, six inches, sir. The men would follow you anywhere. As a friend, I would say that we should have turned back weak scum. It's leadership they want. Strength. Find that within yourself, and you will earn their respect. Bill! Courage, lad!

When we board, you'll take him out of the ship. Take him out of the ship. Thank you, sir. For home and for the pride Stay often, sir Let's fly!

It's a long gold trailer it's quite good trailer yeah yeah it's all right it's not too bad i mean that's probably why i went to see it it's because you know i just i like i like the idea of it, but then you know you come out there you go into euro trip yeah so which which we will cover at some point we will get to euro trip uh we'll have to i've lost count of the amount of times i've seen that so so where do we where do we start because i mean i know oscar bands let's do that why yes

absolutely well he's already given like a little bit away but yeah let's go into it well this was So 10 nominations, I didn't think it got that many. So when I was doing the research of this, I thought, oh, actually, wow, you know, this is a forgotten film, but it was a critical success at the time. So yeah, got nominated in 10 categories, only winning two, sadly.

Spoilt it and told you it won for cinematography so i think that was richly richly deserved and that is perhaps after the after the big four of film director actor and actress that's right up there in that kind of second tier of of oscars i think so that was well deserved and then the other one that it won for is a technical one which i wouldn't normally dwell on but it's sound editing and i thought okay interested it won that so i did my research again i don't want to disappoint any

oscar bants fans so you're very thorough sound editing as opposed to sound mixing which you didn't win for sound editing's where you kind of create the the texture of the noise and it's all the sound kind of it's not the it's sound editing is about creating sounds cannon blast creaking wood sails whipping boots on the deck the buzzer battle it's a world.

Discipline that's it sound mixing is about balancing those elements dialogue effects and scores i didn't think it was actually that good on the sound mixing because sometimes i i struggled to hear what was being said and i almost reverted to subtitles a couple of times that was a bit of weakness of the film i thought but yeah so it won for sound editing and cinematography got nominated for best film but lost out to lord of the rings return of

the king so it was that year that that swept everything uh best makeup lost lord of the rings best sound mixing best visual effects lord of the rings swept the board that year for the final part of that trilogy but i think two to ten nominations is an excellent haul and two wins is probably about about right i think interestingly neither actor got nominated for best actor or best supporting actor which perhaps suggested something to be desired about their performances.

Hmm. Well, maybe I've said that I'm not really that keen on both of them, but as Joe said earlier, they're putting, they're putting great performances, you know, you know, I'll say, I've seen, you're going to try. Sorry. No, I was going to say, what did we, Oh, wait a minute. Sorry. Okay. You carry on talking whilst I just write it. Yeah. Best actor and best supporting actor. And Joe, sorry. Yeah. Oh, I forgot what I was going to say now.

I will mention, since I usually do this, who is almost in the movie. And it sounds like the people that were in the movie were the original ones that they wanted cast in the movie. Right. The only thing I found, which I find kind of odd, is that Dave Bautista, you know, he is using Guardians of the Galaxy. Yeah. He was considered for the role of Bondan.

Who went to it ended up going to billy boyd i didn't even know he was acting at that point i mean they're like completely different figures you know like uh it's a hobbit versus like a hulk basically i don't know what it's like in the book would you be able to no would you be able to explain that uh dom how is the character of boyd was he did billy boyd you know present what he was like in the books or do you think it would be more like dave batista he was busy looking.

Well you know billy boyd he was one of the hobbits oh yeah yeah there's been a bombshell revelation ignore your hobbit chat for a second because i'm just i didn't look as who were best because none of the cast did but anyway the fairly mediocre answer is sean punn won it for mystic river however apparently johnny depp was nominated for parents of the caribbean for best actor can you really effing flipping uh believe that i mean i probably did at the time i don't remember

that that is absurd that he got nominated for that i mean it was a memorable performance but it was kind of overacting and gurning for the camera ahead of russell crowe for this film that's staggering well we have to say sean penn winning it pretty good mystic river well thank god because he beat bill murray for lost in translation that year as well oh no whoa yeah, oh come on man don't just instantly dismiss him if we have our if we have our

controversy season which listeners i'll tantalize you with that's going to be a brilliant season then i'm willing for Lost in Translation to go into that because I think it's shite. I'll just say no. What? Yeah, it's shite. Honestly, that's my recollection of it is it's a man, it's filmed about a man with jet lag and by the time you come out of the cinema you can absolutely relate to him in the sense that you're totally knackered.

Anyway, best supporting actor that year, taking it from Bettany Walls, Tim Robbins, also for Mystic River. That's a film that's been quite badly forgotten really, I think, isn't it as well? I watched it last week. Yeah. Wow. it's still we're expecting that yeah no no it's still it's still wonderful. You know, from a director point of view, Clint Eastwood, he does like that ambiguous ending bit, whereby things seem sewn up, but they're not.

And there's something called Dura No. 5, which was his last film, which was released last year. Wow, that ends on a very morally ambiguous ending. So, yeah, I think it's pretty good, but that might be Clint Eastwood's best directed film.

I don't well or unforgiving shit anyway let's not go into that can i just ask before we go into this next bit have we got we've got an idea of controversial films haven't we if we've got lost in translation we've got forrest gump but yeah by controversial films viewers what he's on about is films which split this this pod in this podcast in three yeah maybe, yeah i mean we all look forward to ganging up on you with one or two of your the films that you've got an inexplicable picture of.

Yeah, but you can't just go into it and go, right, okay, I've said to you, I will go in and watch Forrest Gump with an open mind as if I'm just watching it again. I might have my, and it might be that I haven't watched it for a long time and it changes, but. Or it might not. I'm going to bully you on some of these. I'm going to have no mercy. I'm just going to bully you. I'm going to bully you like you're a Frenchman. Yeah.

So just brace yourself for that. You're a Frenchman. Yeah. What do you do to a Frenchman? Well, it's a good job. It's a good job of the show Master and Commander the night before the general election. Otherwise, I think the Brexit reform party would sweep the boards. There's some brilliant lines in this.

What about when he's giving that stirring speech? Do you want to see a guillotine in Piccadilly?

Do you want to see that raggedy ass napoleon you're king do you want your children to sing and i you know it stirs at the old inbuilt antipathy we have to the french if we don't get me wrong i had a french girlfriend for a couple years i do actually like the french and i like going to france but on that kind of rival this is you know you've got your canadian rival ruse joe and you've got your mexican right that says nothing this these are

some deeply in the world yeah well yeah welcome welcome to how it used to be to be british but um like braveheart i'm still waiting for braveheart 2 the culloden years yes that is a great line which i often cite but uh but yeah so the anti-french sentiment in this film is is fantastic and then at the.

Well it is there isn't it i mean you were mr when i used to work with you, when we first worked together you were all in and you you had french friends that came around you were just mr you were mr franco you like french fries yeah freedom fries i yeah i'm a i'm a complicated person and i contain contradictions i can simultaneously like the french and also enjoy seeing them get their asses kicked on on cinema as well so yeah so that's

why i'm gonna bully you like a french but on controversial season which i'm looking forward to right we should watch your trip next then oh national national lampoon's european vacation Surely that's the, that's the daddy of them all, isn't it? Eurotrip's not controversial. I think we genuinely all like it. You know, Vinnie Jones hates the French. Oh yeah. Come here and say that, you snail-eating. Well, there you go.

Frog-eating. Puff-a. You're on the wrong side of the road. Come here and say that. Oh, what a film. Anyway, right. So back to the film. Never mind the controversial season.

We'll come up with a list on there, but you've already got a few. I'm already going to be stagged off a lot in translation. But anyway, if you've already determined that, that's great. Back to the film.

One thing I thought you mentioned earlier that was interesting is that sense of kind of dread and edge that is in the in the film not not really all the way through it but do you know what it reminded me of in parts and you've got to bear with me on this but it's a little bit like saving private ryan in places i think so not nothing will ever surpass that opening 20 minutes of that of that film but but particularly towards the battle scene at the end when they know it's coming and you've got

that sense that it's about to be violent bloodshed and it's not avoidable in fact you're you're kind of leaning into it and you want to embrace it i definitely got that sort of vibe you know when they're preparing the ship and they're they've just a deceit they're describing themselves as a british whaler because they've got a, disadvantage in size and guns against the french they need they know they need to kind of be innovative in how they do it and there's that build up and there's

the men going through their routines and they're stripped to the waist and the gunners have their everything lined up and then it and then it kicks off and and.

It's like that kind of 19th century equivalent of the landing craft hitting the beaches at Normandy, and you've suddenly got raw violence, and this figure, this captain, who up to this point has been this distant authority figure, is basically in there with the lads, sword in hand, hacking away, slashing away, and that hand-to-hand violence, that's so visceral.

I just thought it was just incredible and that extended scene again it's not i would say that saving private ryan is the cherry on the cake but this comes uh comes close and up to the point where it surpassed was probably the best example of this and joe you said it earlier it was kind of a grim, depressing parts of it you know it's butchery really isn't it but that's what was required that was i guess the reality of war and the film doesn't shy away from showing you what that

was like but still as the as the viewer you can you can be kind of both repulsed by that but also drawn into it as well i do think it's a man's film that all that said i didn't i watched it by myself i didn't watch it with a lass and i'm not sure how many women will be signing up to watch this film maybe that's a sweeping yeah well well what was it there were actually yeah there's some native women yeah who were essentially prostitutes

i think so it's it's It's not a film for women or women's rights. Women watch Pretty Woman. So, you know, that's got prostitutes in it. It has, yeah. And the lesson of that is that prostitution works, isn't it? I think the moral of that story. The moral of this story to make a gag from The Simpsons is that women and semen don't mix. That's the joke. I did want you to walk me through something. I may sound like an idiot for this, but I know that, again, with the French vessel.

They were outsized, they were outnumbered, they were outgunned. And that's why they kept fleeing it. So when they're finally on the Galapagos Islands and they end up seeing the vessel before it sees them, what exactly did they do like i know why did the french vessel come so close did they think that, they were they were gonna it was gonna be easy victory why didn't they start firing upon it you know why didn't the french vessel start firing upon you know the british vessel.

Because they disguised themselves as a as a whaler so that was the bit of the film where they like started bellowing out smoke and things because they'd already obviously taken one British whaler which you saw the aftermath of at the Galapagos they disguised themselves as a whaler they made the ship run in an unprofessional manner so the sails weren't tied back properly and everything looked sloppy they they took their uniforms off

no saluting and no bells or anything like that so it looked like a an easy target for the French who'd been kind of bossing it around that part of the ocean and so when they came alongside that's when they waited for that right moment then it just hit them with that that broadside so that that's the yeah I mean the The cannon fire in the broadside is just incredible in this, aren't they?

They are just, you know, to be that close, you see some of the shots where they're just like, if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time, it's just sudden, sudden death, isn't it? And you're just blown out the back of the ship. It's, uh, ferocious, really. Yeah, absolutely. Like the whaler ships, I mean, do they look like the military ships? Well, well, yes, in the sense that obviously this is pre kind of ships are still

made of wood at this time. They're sailed. There's no kind of, um, engines.

This is too early in history for that. they all have that basic same model and ships are built to last for unless they sunk in conflict or storm you know 40 50 years there's kind of a range of them and this is an older british ship so it could be disguised as a as a whaler that was the bit i had the problem with is like that's all right just a quick paint job here and stuff like that and fine and we make it look like this anybody that's

looking from the french looking through the uh the eyeglass um is gonna go wait a minute that's the ship we've been having battles with and stuff that's the exact wait a minute that's the exact same ship well i think you're being a bit harsh there and a lick of paint and you know i think they went through an extended scene of taking your hats off that's it it was reminiscent of the a-team in the sense of they just they should have had a

little montage where they're doing all the little things and the ankle grinding and the hammering and the yeah and then it's suddenly no so it's perfectly plausible and don't dare criticize that aspect of the film yes it's like the 18 i i had something to raise with you so the bit where they get their asses kicked at the start and then they go oh we've made it into the smoke do you know what that reminded me of.

Every fucking star trek bit where they're in trouble and they go into a nebula and it reminded me a little bit of the wrath of khan where they're going in and out and they're trying to they can't see each other and and all this sort of stuff and i i can't think that i'm making a star trek reference to do with no commander but we we have entered into the mataru nebula yeah exactly.

Dom would like that because that is basically a naval battle well i think as you said that i think that story is based on a patch is either explicitly or admitted after the facts is based on one of these stories so whilst you two talk about star trek for a minute i'm now gonna i'm gonna go and we're gonna talk about star trek yeah very how badly how badly small minute i mean so there is no i was gonna say anymore yeah i agree with that but i was gonna defend my stupidity too

that i didn't have subtitles available for me so i wasn't able to put them on with this movie and i really needed them i mean you guys might not have needed them because you're british but i had some difficulty understanding some of the words yeah but they weren't talking like snatch it wasn't like cool blimey cuff that we're going down no oh yeah no i definitely had difficulty with snatch i mean that if i had to rate it like Yeah,

that's what I should do is create a site where you rate the difficulty of understanding the British in movies, you know? Yeah, Snatch would probably get an F. I mean, but this would probably get maybe a C- or a C. Okay. Meanwhile, have you done your research? Yeah. So not directly, but the guy who did Wrath of Khan said he wanted it to be like a sea battle in space. So Patrick O'Brien, the author was the daddy of sea battles. So therefore I'm taking that as a half point myself.

Yeah breath of khan's great we'll do that at one point yeah yeah that'll get that'll get the female listeners flooding back in once it will do our star trek seasons oh well like this one like this one is this one's going to be like oh master and commander the naval battle one yeah you've already said that the women aren't going to watch it they're going to listen to the podcast unless it's obviously to listen to me well they're all worried that i've not made it

back from from the f1 pods so they'll all be tuned in their droves hello ladies yeah no youtube comments give us a snapchat yeah they're just gonna go you lazy fucker who couldn't be asked to watch it on opening weekend that's what i would say maybe i was out i was out walking in the hills raising money for breast cancer charity that's how much of a female ally i am that's that's how uh dedicated you are to the podcast that you go off and do your your fancy uh

your fancy fundraising rolling around for a crumb of pussy oh look at me why shit okay the other bit i didn't like is when they're on the island and they accidentally see they see the french vessel again i'm like oh and i'm glad they did because it made for a thrilling ending but it was almost like accidental wasn't accidental.

If you know about the galapagos islands you'll know it's a very remote island chain off the coast of ecuador or something like that it's the only island for miles it's middle of the pacific so it's not a random chance there's another ship vessel there is it because if they don't go there then they've got to go to kind of india or japan for their supplies so you know that would have been like a little hub for the ships not everything needs to be spelled out the film channel i can't

believe you didn't pick up on that that subtlety the geographical distance of uh galapagos from its nearest neighbor obviously it's funny i remember i used to work with this guy, he's from India, and he'd watched Glory, which is, I love that movie. It's a good film. But he. But he mocked, he says, I don't understand. What the fuck were you guys doing? How you used to fight? You used to like get right up close and shoot each other and then load your guns.

I mean, where it was just, you know, suicide, what you were doing. Why would you ever fight that way? We've got bayonets on it. We've got bayonets on the end. Yeah, but there were a lot of times like where you would just, everyone would just kneel. Yeah, some guys kneeling, some guys standing up, it's like reload. You know, both sides would be reloading and then they just shoot at each other.

I mean i can understand when he said it but you know that was how they did things at the time like they didn't have you know advanced weaponry but it was i feel like it was kind of similar to what was going on in this movie too you know with how they had to come up with you know the scheme to fool the french vessel to create like a smaller vessel at night and have it launch off and, that was just that was just the start of it but when it when

it came down to when bush came to shove once we got them where we wanted them to be then it was a proper ruck wasn't it you know that was like full-on hardcore chilling each other so probably your mate's point of view probably explains why that particular country was under british rule for centuries because you know you've got to be uh you've got to be you've got to be up for these and a bit for a ruck and seldom the french the indians what else is next wait

a minute it's the fourth of july it's the fourth of july weekend still yeah we haven't insulted the u.s i mean our biggest our biggest audience is it yeah well yeah was it there's the fourth of july demographics is that boston tea party is that is that we should watch the patriot and that should be fun watching that with you guys oh can we i can't wait the patriot or as we call it historical inaccuracies the movie.

Or as i call it the traitor because that's uh that's my analysis of that film yeah so happy treason day by the way to our american listeners um hope you enjoyed your fourth of july i did there's a lot of people in america that didn't though why oh they're bitching they don't like the president that's in charge of the country so now they hate america and uh yeah they're just they're disgusted like we're an embarrassment to

the world no we're not i actually think i'd make a great i actually think i'd make if i was born in america i'd be a i'd be a great american yeah i genuinely think i would uh what sort what sort of american would you be do you think would that cap your way now have maga on it do you think if you were in america well i don't know could you get away can you get away with doing that and, What, wear MAGA hats? Yeah. It depends on where you live, I think. Florida, you'd be right. Like,

I wouldn't go into San Francisco and wear a MAGA hat. Or New York, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, well, no, I reckon I'd be patriotic. I reckon I'd be very... Yeah, no, I mean, look what I'm wearing, you know? It's like red, white, and blue. Yeah, exactly. Oh, say can you see? Yeah. Yeah, just because the guy that you, or the person that you voted for didn't win, doesn't mean you have to hate the country now. You can still love the country and not like the leader. I mean, and that's what.

I don't like our leader. I don't like our king. I don't like anybody in the royal family. You don't like the king? No. Why? Oh God, the most embarrassing thing is, I won't say who I was with, but I was with people and I was fixing something for them.

They were watching it on tv and when they said and now we need to pledge our allegiance to the king and they sat there and repeated back i pledge my allegiance to the king and stuff like this it's like the king doesn't give a fuck about you but the royal family have never cared about their citizens they don't care and yet meanwhile people go i'd have like dude seriously no embarrassing embarrassing maybe maybe putting your hand on your heart and reciting the

oath is a bit over the top but like what about this film that we just watched when he gives that speech at the end it's a bit like henry the fifth yeah yeah it's a great speech england well you weren't just sitting there eating a croissant or a fucking you know flicking the v's at it using the union jack to wipe their ass.

Because that's why wait a minute why would i do that i love my country i just don't like the leader or the royalty why should i like the royalty you love your country republic forever republic oh my god yeah jeremy corbyn bloody hell well okay that's plenty there's plenty of us well i think it's quite quite quite an obscure part of the venn diagram patriotic loves his country hates the king that's um sorry not just the king but the royal family the royal family they're all

they're all wrongings they're all got something wrong with them they've all done something in there yeah well i think it's just it's the whole idea of democracy like where you feel like that there's a king there it's not necessarily a democracy you know it's not really up to the people although they're basically you know he's king and and i would say name only i could be wrong there's no there's nothing to him they just leech offers every year they leech off the taxpayer while while,

Oh, Johnny Rotten had it right. You know, it's tradition and I'm sure they bring in money, you know, for. Yeah, they do. They do bring in money, but they take a lot of money as well. And nobody ever audits them and goes, what are we getting in and what are we paying for it? Well, that's why we had the Boston Tea Party.

You know, I mean, we, we learned that a long time before you guys did. Revolve. Rebel. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, but William, William and Kate are all right. Oh God. Oh God. Right. No, they're not. None of them are. Anyway. Okay. Let's not forget that our king, let's not forget that our good king in, what was it? 1991 wrote in a message to Camilla, I wish I could be your Tampax. I knew that was coming. I knew that exact line was coming there. Yeah.

What? What kind of, I mean, I get the sentiment, but fucking hell, man. I mean, could you not have made it a bit more romantic? Was he reading his love letters aloud? No, how did they find him? It was that era where the tabloid editors just used to hoover up voicemails, infiltrate your privacy. Oh, that was it, voicemail, yeah. On an industrial scale, wasn't it? Yeah, so anyway, look, we better close this conversation.

We've probably lost some of our listeners. tangent in conclusion in conclusion charlie finds himself on the side of harry and megan and that's where he i'm not at all that's the royals that's the royals so that they're not.

More of a prince andrew mountain i gotcha lord don't it's the worst worst of the bunch don't get any side of those two but we shouldn't get back to the movie you know well i think let's bring it let's bring it home now we've had a good discussion we must be running to times now-ish so um i've enjoyed it and it's my choice it feels very indulgent and i've enjoyed our, conversation and and i absolutely accept and take your challenge about

it but i love it it's very special place in my heart and if anybody's in the needs a good book recommendation audio books these days equally as valid so patrick o'brien start with master and commander and work your way through it's great if you love seaman okay i'm gonna watch this in 4k i'm gonna i'm gonna watch it in better quality than i than i did i was going to say the same thing i might sound insane but i think i am going to pick up the 4k version and re-watch it and have

the subtitles on yeah okay and we might bump up the you know you might bump the scores a bit we could readdress it i'm sure that'll bring a lot of people to the episode well we've alienated how many countries so it's fine and all royalists as well so yeah there's not many i don't think there's that many royalists only the people that like go at five o'clock in the morning to sit on sit on a piece of pavement and go well it's a bit great we've got our gun it's a bit great.

It's just got all the crazies in one place anyway yes i think i think it's a great choice and i do think it was a i was as i say i wasn't looking forward to it but i really enjoyed it so yeah. Wonderful joe over to you what we do next just before joe actually sorry just before you you.

Say which film you're going to be doing we're also going to try if we can see it next weekend try and do a bit of a special uh whereby we go see superman which is coming out next week so like we did with f1 which thoroughly enjoyed definitely go and see f1 if you can biggest screen possible that you can absolutely we're going to try and do the same with superman but the next official podcast that we're going to be doing is over to joe and it's your

choice my friend yeah i was just going to say i'm a huge fan of superman so i'm looking forward to seeing it i don't know if it's going to be good or not i have my doubts and then i will relay to charlie whether or not he should go and see it or not so we might be doing it and then again we might not be doing it it really sucks i have a feeling we won't be doing it and we probably will be doing my current pick and this kind of came out recently for me i had others

on my list but i think it's it's a brilliant movie i found out today that dom never.

Saw it i think that he'll thoroughly enjoy it i could be wrong this is 2014's whiplash and just amazing performances by the two main actors uh jk simmons and miles teller it's it is i think it's an incredible movie and i look forward to talking about it look forward to seeing it again and if you guys have a surround sound system i would definitely watch it that way you know charlie and dom yeah mine's here because there's a lot There's a lot of music involved in this.

Great yeah it's a good choice i i haven't seen it since i think i just re-watched it in 2018 2019 but yeah looking forward to seeing it again yeah well once i got over my initial disappointment that whiplash wasn't an snm film it was about music i i've i've processed that i'm looking forward to anything that comes so heartily endorsed by joe's bound to be good so looking forward to getting my bottom spanked at whiplash you got the wrong end of the stick anyway fine

it's fine I'm sure she said that's the point equivalent out there though, Dom's got his private stash he doesn't need any anymore it's fine hey one film we should watch sometime Dom is probably Secretary that's a good film in a similar way no it's not it's not a good film oh controversy it's not a good film despite it's got James Spader in it no well, one of my picks can go into that territory too so, maybe we'll watch that one oh

right we might be starting and controversial season sooner than we think. But anyway, right. Whiplash, great. If we do Superman, it won't be like a long, long podcast like this one. It'll just be a reaction. We just, you know, usually probably the day after the last person who saw it, and then we just do it that way. But cool. Nice one. I look forward to it. And on that note, I'm going to say cheerio. See you. Bye-bye. Bye. Music.