Talkers

or wherever you listen to your podcast. On this episode of Russia Limbaugh The Man Behind the Golden E I B Microphone, we'll be speaking with two industry icons, Michael Harrison of Talkers magazine and Phil Boyce, who was the program director at w ABC in New York when Rush was there and was the p D who hired Sean Hannity,

currently VP of Spoken Word for Salem Communications. Whether you listened every day you are at the E I B Network and the Russia Limball program heard on over six hundred great radio stations every now and then, nation's leading radio and talk show, the most eagerly intisepated program. Stories you've never heard from the people behind the scenes who

knew him best and loved him most. Rushman having more funds the human being it could be allowed to have Rush Limpough The Man behind the Golden E I D Microphones hosted by James golden Through the Stand Up for Betsy Ross campaign, you changed the lives of dozens of hero families in need. The campaign benefited The Tunnels Are Towers Foundation. Tunnel to Towers bills mortgage free smart homes for our nation's most catastrophically injured veterans and first responders

to give them their independence. For gold star families and fallen first respond to families with young children, Tunnel to Towers pays off mortgages in full for these families and provides them with the comfort of a home when their world has literally been turned upside down. And thanks to this campaign to Stand Up for Betsy Ross campaign, you have seen to it that we have been able to send a charital donation in total of five million dollars

to Tunnel the Towers. Your kindness, generosity, and patriotism brought hope when it was needed most but more of America's heroes in their families need your support. Donate eleven dollars a month to Tunnel to Towers at T two t dot org. That's the letter T the number two t dot org. First up, the founder of Talkers magazine, Michael Harrison. Now, Michael, you've you've interviewed dresslan Ball. You interviewed him early on.

But before we get to that, I'd like you to tell our audience how it came to be that you published the leading magazine for the entire talk radio industry. I had a background in trade publishing and in broadcasting, and i've i've I've always led a double life or a double career of being involved in the trades and also being involved in just about every end of being on air or managing or I even owned a radio station.

I've been a program director, and I've been a personality, and I've been involved in music radio and in talk radio. In the trade arena, I was involved in the development of Radio and Records. I was its first managing editor when it started, and had also worked with Billboard magazine and published a couple of newsletters and tip sheets along

the way. So uh, and I was doing talk radio on a rock station in l A for eleven years, and I always felt that when the nineties would would come, this was during the eighties, that the nineties were going to be the decade of talk radio, that talk radio was going to become the dominant form of radio. So I wanted to do it professionally as a broadcaster, and I also wanted to be involved in it as a

trade publisher. So when came around, I decided to take all the experience I had in both on air management and trade publishing and put them into a trade publication that dealt with talk radio back as if it were the talk radio industry. We called it the the industry, even though it was just at that time basically a small portion of the radio industry. And uh, fortunately I was right, and that was thirty one years ago. Talkers Magazine is still operating and still thriving, thank goodness, for

which I'm very grateful and it's extremely gratifying. When did you first meet When did you first become aware of Russia Limball? How did that happen? I heard him on the station that I had owned, UM shortly after I sold the station, they put Rush Limbaugh on. I'm driving down Route Highway ninety one in Springfield, Massachusetts, and I hear on my former station, the that I owned, UM, this is Rush Limball, and how I go, who the heck is that? It was like it's like the first

time I heard Elvis Presley. I remember that I'm that old, and I remember the first time I heard the Beatles. I remember the first time I heard Rush Limbaugh on the air, and it just came through the speakers like a ton of bricks, that that voice, and and that whole ownership of the airwaves, the ownership of the air And that was the first time. And and of course, being a student of the industry, I had not started talkers yet, so I was in the process of thinking

about it. Obviously. Um, I asked, who who is this Rush Limbo? First of all, the name is funny, rush Limball, you know, and similar to Elvis Presley. When he first showed up on the scene, the name sounded very funny. People are making fun of it. They called him Elbow Parsley, rush Limbaugh, and UM, you know, you become used to a name after a while, and uh, we're certainly used to the name rush Limbaugh now. But that's how I

first became aware of him. And it's very interesting. The evolution that followed in terms of syndication during the midday was not something that major market radio was very quick to do. That was considered to be very daring to put a syndicated program program on in the middle of the day and Rush talked about that. By the way, he was told at the time, this is never gonna work. It's not going to work. Radio stations will not pick you up, et cetera. But he went ahead and and

he and Ed McLaughlin. Did you know Ed McLaughlin? I, I subsequently knew Ed. I did not know Ed personally. He was a major executive at ABC Radio. So being in the broadcasting business, I knew who he was, but I had not yet met him or interacted or done business with him. But I certainly knew who he was, and I knew that his starting a syndicated venture after leaving ABC was something to be taken seriously because he was what we call in the business, a heavyweight, and

obviously he was. So let's let's advance you hear him, this is before you started Talkers magazine. Correct, follow your own evolution as a listener. Well, I certainly understood the need to fill a void, because that's why I call that positioning, and in radio, positioning is everything. And so it immediately struck me that his approach to UH talk radio from the conservative perspective, especially with humor, in many ways, he was sort of what on the right, what Jon

Stewart was on the left. Heavy use of satire, heavy use of humor, heavy use of production and entertaining elements and parodies and wordplay and double entendres. Uh So he was very entertaining and filled a void because talk radio was political. It was post fairness doctrine, so you could be opinionated without being too restrained by fear that you'd be sense sword or sensored by the government. And uh, I knew right away, Oh this tap, this makes total sense.

There's a there's a giant market out there for conservative politics because, let's face it, most of the media was either moderate or liberal, and conservative politics was marginalized as radical, far right, very negative, pejorative. So I knew right away this guy's got it all. He's positioned properly to fill the political void, politics being the major topic of interest on news talk radio. And he's entertaining and he sounds good. His his mechanics were that of a really seasoned top

forty jock. He knew that mechanics. And I'm very, very into mechanics because I just love radio, So I knew this was a guy to watch. Explain what you mean, because we have a lot of people here that are not radio people. So when you say mc planics, okay, what are they talk What is he talking about? What is mechanics? But you know, people think you just get on the radio and you sit there and you spout your politics, you spout what you want to do. But

radio is a symphony. Radio is a combination. It's a continuum of elements. There there's music, and there's commercials, and there are breaks, and there's timing, and we're working our way up to the clock and at one o'clock we've got the news and then we'll be back. And there's it's a whole dance of thirty second elements, ten second elements, sixty second elements, bed music. Um, there's a pacing to it.

There's a sound and a texture to it that DJs who came out of the sixties and the seventies and the eighties inherently knew how to do. It's it's the reps. It's if you want to be a pianist, you have to learn how to make your fingers work on the on the piano. If you want to be a baseball player, you have to do batting practice. You have to you have to learn how to throw, how to catch the basic mechanics of an entity, and radio is the same way.

So and you can hear it right away. Rush played the continuum of sound, the symphony of a sound of a radio station or a radio show as one of its elements. He knew how to integrate his voice into that flow. I know it sounds esoteric and maybe I'm over analyzing it. No you're not, because this is one of the things that Russie Rush talked about this on occasion. He would talk about it, but but he wouldn't talk about it in depth the way that you are now

explaining it. What he would say is that radio is theater, and you have to understand just as as an actor would or or someone in the theater business. You have to understand the theater. You have to understand and and and there are no visuals, so what you have is the complete attention of someone who's listening. It's an active process to listen to somebody, as opposed to look at something while you're busy doing something else. Absolutely, and and

and the theater is a perfect analogy. When you go into a theater, there's the curtain, there's the chandelier at the top of the roof. If it's if it's a classic old theater, there's there's the whole atmosphere of the theater, and then the lights go down, and then if it's a musical, the orchestra comes up, and then the curtain opens and the lights start. It's not just somebody standing

on a stage talking to you. There's a whole environment and the actor or the writer or each of the elements finds its place within this whole, you know, montage of synchronized entities, and Rush brought that to talk radio, so it's like listening to a music radio station with the station's format was part of the program, was it was actually part of the show. The format was part of the show. He did that in Talk before anybody else, and um, that is one of the things that made

him successful. Obviously he brought content and and a lot of intelligence and other things to it. But that was the first thing I noticed was his position politically that he's filling a gap and that's good for democracy, and that's good for radio because people that feel left out, disenfranchised, hungry for that type of a point of view, empowered and and franchised as opposed to disenfranchised. They would like that, but they're also radio listeners, and a radio listener knows

when they're hearing the radio that it's not television. When you hear a television soundtrack on radio, it doesn't sound like a radio station. It sounds like there's something different about it has a hollowness to it. This was full radio and that voice. It just was the right package at the right time. But I definitely think that his mechanics, back to that word, were one of the pillars upon which his success was built. AM radio was in trouble

at that time. People were wondering if AM radio would survive five talk about that for a moment please. AM radio was in big trouble, and, as I think Chris Christofferson wrote in the Janice Joplin hit, freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose. There was nothing left to lose. FM radio was eating AM Radio's lunch with the music. It just didn't sound as good. So here's what happened AM radio. First, of all radio fans post war Baby boomers uh knew how to use radio.

They grew up with radio and they knew what AM radio was, so they were not strangers to the dial um. Talk sounded good on AM. The aforementioned fairness doctrine was repealed, which means now you can talk about politics and have opinion without having to hold back for fear that you're not giving every side at the proper exposure. And that's impossible to do because there are more sides two sides

than anybody can believe. It's very subjective. So rather than be fair and have more points of view on the air, radio station said we're not messing with this, they just never talked about anything controversial. That was gone, so controversial

politics suddenly was was fair game. The post war baby boomers that grew up with pop radio and AM rock radio, Um, we're getting older and suddenly interested in politics, Suddenly interested in taxation, suddenly interested in in in various aspects of freedom of government, of community, education, health care, public safety, foreign affairs, all of these things suddenly were of interest to basically the same audience that grew up listening to

rock and roll. The demographic shift had happened. They were getting older, so suddenly the audience was was there for that. And the thing that Rush did and that talk radio did was it provided uh, the listeners with something that was important in their life, something that was more than

just back crowned. It was it was heavy duty, It had teeth, It reflected the culture, and radio to succeed, going all the way back to the beginning, unlike other forms of media, had to be hip, grassroots, the sound of the street, uh, the everyday person, and RUSSI accomplished that and and and as a result, it kept AM Radio alive, and I think to a certain extent, it

kept all of radio alive. Not only you, my professor, but you're also a friend and a mentor and somebody that I've looked up to and I dare say a hero, uh due to the value that the true life values that you have expounded out there. I remember many years ago you spoke to being able to get a job, and you talked about the different levels and what's required and whether it was a high school, college education. And I think that the top level of that had something

to do with integrity and respect. And I think that those are parts of values that you teach out there that are invaluable. And I just I'm thankful that I've been able to experience you for all these years and many years to come. Well, I thank you very much. You know, I'm I'm always flattered and deeply appreciative when I find out how detailed people's listening is, and you have heard the details and they've obviously made an impression

on you. I remember many of the times, not all, I'm sure, but I remember many times I've talked about getting a job, versus finding a career, versus becoming productive, versus finding what it is that you are born to do. We are all born to do something, including be lazy. Some people just have to find what what they were born to do, and it's a rewarding thing to get calls like yours. I deeply and and profoundly appreciated. In each episode, we've been documenting the story of Russia's life,

narrated by some of his closest friends and colleagues. This week a good friend of the program, a good friend of mine, the actor, the director, and he was a guest host once on the Rustling Ball program, none other than our friend Nick Sercy. The Life of Russia Limbaugh,

Chapter eleven, narrated by Nick Searcy. After the election of Barack Obama in two thousand and eight, Russia Limbaugh was immediately concerned for the direction America was headed as he intuitively sensed the growing loss of freedoms and liberty to come over the next eight years, and as the end of the Obama regime neared, Russia's listeners trusted him more than ever as Conservatism's most vocal champion and opinion maker.

As a well known businessman, a non political outsider, started gaining steam in a long shot bid for the Republican presidential nomination, Rush made clear where his priority stood. Whatever you think I'm advocate aiding, it's not because I care what happens to the Republican Party. I care about what happens to America, and I know that any more of what we've had the last eight years, it's gonna be America. But it's not gonna be America. You and I know.

As then candidate Donald J. Trump took off on a meteoric rise, the mainstream media and political pundits were dumbfounded by his success and his refusal to play by the usual, tired set of rules. But Russ knew early on that Trump was different and why he connected with the American people. He's real, he isn't phony, he is not politically correct, and he's fearless. He's not afraid to tell people what

he actually thinks about other people or things. Trump is showing that the things the Republican Party is afraid of are baseless. They don't need to be afraid. With his signature insight, Limbaugh told his listeners why the experts were failing to understand the man who was promising to make America great again. Despite the scores of critics and doubters, Trump never gave up, and he campaigned relentlessly right until the early morning hours of election day, November eight, two

thousand sixteen. So it's so officially Tuesday November. Did you ever think you'd be hearing a major speech like it around close to one o'lock in the morning? Are we phrasey? And as America came alive the next morning, it discovered Trump had shocked the world with a decisive win over Hillary Clinton. For his part, Rush became one of President Trump's most vocal advocates throughout his presidency and the election. He saw Trump as a uniter who would be good

for America in the long run. He is out trying to get as many people in this country as he can to join his movement. He's not trying to lose. He's not trying to clean things up and make the party something that it isn't. He's trying to rename it, reshape it, so that is a party of victory. And what's the slogan, America great again? America First. Everything he's talking about is real. The outcome of the last presidential election of Russia's lifetime didn't produce the results for which

he had hoped. And if the world ever needed his insight and commentary, it does today more than ever. But if you listen close, even though the Golden E I B microphone sits empty, through the speakers of radio stations across the country, you can still hear the man we knew and loved for more than thirty years. The voices offering their opinion on the radio now may be different, but the footsteps in which they follow undoubted belong to

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pillow dot com promo code icon. Back with Michael Harrison. Mike, when did you meet Rush? I met Rush? Uh, it was I think it was nine. I met Rush on the telephone when I interviewed him for the second issue of Talkers magazine. UM, but I met him personally. I believe it was at the National Association of Broadcasters convention in San Francisco, in which he and I were on the same panel, and UM the panel had a couple

of other people. I think ron Owens from KGO and San Francisco was on it, and the conversation was or included, is it possible for a national syndicated personality to to appropriately put a mid day on on a major market radio station. That was the issue. It was that outrageous, and the audience was a little hostile to Rush and very positive about ron Owens and UM. I believe the moderators were Kennan Daria Dolan, and I was on there

as the observer. Talker was only one year old at the time, but fortunately we already were very popular and I was the I was the impartial observer UM and that was where I met Rush Limbaugh. You know, one of the things that I've thought for years is that so many broadcasters and not just broadcasters. It's it's because, as you know, this is an industry that, to use

a political phrase, trickles down into other areas. Jobs are not just created in a radio and just where you have the jobs that come from advertising, you have all the jobs that come from the advertising support, and it goes on and on. So Rush coming in and and and doing what he did for radio at such a critical time, one would think that there would be this swell of appreciation for it. Yet you mentioned there was

a little bit of hostility. What did you attribute that to? One, A lot of people in the business felt he was taking away jobs because, UM, I don't know, maybe there were a hundred stations fifty two, it was far less than today. Um, during the original ascent of Rush Limbaugh and what I call the modern era of talk radio. So a lot of a lot of radio personalities felt

he was taking away their jobs. There was the feeling that it was sacrilegious to have something that wasn't local on a radio station in the middle of the day. So there was hostility towards that. And I have to say that at that time, most of the ownership and most of the people in the radio business were of a moderate to liberal bent, and they found his politics offensive and disagreed with it. So the combination of what they perceived to be taking away jobs, which which mathematically

turned out not to be absolutely true. And we can talk about that if you want to. But um, there was hostility from an industrial standpoint, in terms of the economics of it, the aesthetics of it, in terms of local versus national, and uh, politically, Um, there wasn't a fully developed conservative constituency within the radio business. Um And And one of the interesting things James that happened in that encounter because I was on the panel with him,

and we also had dinner together. UM. I had dinner with Rush and the Dolans, and that was a very interesting dinner. But I had an encounter with him in the whole way. Um withstanding, it was just the two of us, and he looked at me and he said, Michael, I have a question I want to ask you. Maybe you can give me an honest answer. I said, sure, Rush. What he said, how come people don't like me? Blew

me away. It blew me away when he said, how come people don't like me like I like like today in the panel, I just get the sense that people in this business don't like me. I think. He then, you know, specifically pointed out as in this business. And I looked at him and I said, hey, they're jealous. Don't worry about it. Because I knew this guy was was heading for start um. I mean, it was just obvious to me. I've always been prey about that type

of thing, and I certainly was in that time. But I said, don't worry about it, they're jealous, but he was very The thing that I learned and that moment was that he even though he's tough and and and and uh, you know, his teeth, as I said before, in terms of what he did on the air, personally, I got the impression that he's a very sensitive individual and was first coming around to understanding what it was like to be a public figure, even though the public

in this case was in the industry. Who who meets with tremendous resistance and enemies? And I think it should come up a little bit, you know that. It is really an interesting observation. Let's and you mentioned before the jobs. I do want to hear what you have to say about that. Well, he did take jobs from people that would be local on the stations that he was installed at, but conversely, he created more stations as a result of

the success he brought to the format. So he may have taken one job or two jobs from each station that existed when he first emerged on the scene. But as a result of Rush Limbaugh, hundreds of radio stations across America turned to the talk format, which created countless jobs, from management to sales to on air to engineering. So I sat down and figured it out because it was a major issue. The guy's taking jobs. He's not taking jobs at all. He was making jobs in terms of

the total sum of his impact. Michael, here's the here's the money question, as it were, What is the legacy of Russia Limbaugh in the radio industry and beyond? Will there ever be anyone that does what Rush was able to do by way of accomplishment in this industry. I certainly hope somebody comes along and gives a shot in the arm to this industry going forward that would be equal or greater than Rush, But I doubt that's going

to happen. I do believe there will be other media, other platforms, other chapters of history, and other great movements. So you know, I'm a I'm a believer in the future,

and I'm optimistic. But in terms of the time and space the twentieth century and the beginning of the twenty one century that Rush Limbaugh operated in, I think his legacy will be that he was certainly one of the greatest I'm not talking about whether I agree with him politically, just one of the greatest broadcasters of the first one hundred years of radio UH and a major figure in

keeping radio iconic and pertinent. And I believe also he will go down in history as being one of the most influential leaders of the modern conservative movement, the American conservative movement of the late twentieth century and early twenty one century. And that's a hell of a lot, it really is. Let me give you my view for a moment on honest this. You know, I when I first started with Rush, he was the first radio host I had ever heard that integrated email, this new thing that

people were using. And back then he was using compu serve, used to give his compu Serve address out invite listeners to to UH to to be in contact with them, and in real time during the show would read some of those emails and respond to them and integrated that. And well, of course today we have this direct messaging all over the place, instant messaging, and now it's text. Now it's instantaneous that you can get through. We have

entire social media platforms built on interactivity. When Rush started and and and as the show became what it was, it wasn't just radio. Television changed. What you mentioned about radio and the ownership was certainly true. Of television too. There was no conservative space on television for conservative politics. That has changed. The publishing world has changed, and that

happened after Rush too. So my own view is that he is all of that and more in radio, but his impact on electronic and print media is sometimes not recognized. What do you think about that? I think you're absolutely right as a matter of fact, as you were saying, and I'm going, yeah, I missed that. That's that's definitely

part of it. He definitely was a catalyst for our evolution during the aforementioned time from the analog era to the digital era in terms of communications, and that of course goes way beyond any of the individual media platforms that we've cited. It really ties into a rapid jump ahead in terms of the wiring of the human nervous system. I mean, the way we're wired, the way we think, the way we are ties into this analog to digital transition which he did play a major role in in catalyzing.

So yeah, I agree with you fully, Michael. This has been a real treat Um. You and I have known each other for quite a while, UM, and you are just an incredible force in this industry. You know, It's amazing that you your passion and you were equipped, you were born to do what you're doing, apparently because you had this dual interest in radio and in trade publications, and you were able to execute both of them flawlessy. And thanks to you you have we have now an

informed media. You are doing something unique, and you've done something unique in this industry, and you are just one of the giants, and so it is certainly our honor and pleasure to have you here with us today. Thank you so much for saying that. I really appreciated, James, and Um, I wish you and everybody associated with that great chapter of broadcasting history the best going forward. Thank you. This whole experience, not one bit of it is work, not one bit of it. It is all just more

fun than I've ever had in my life. It is absolutely no hardship whatsoever to fly around the country to see people, to be on the radio, or any of that. You enjoy my show, and I appreciate that more than you'll ever know. I don't want to beat this into the ground. I'm sure you've all felt like you aren't going to ever amount to anything, even though you knew

you were capable of and I felt that way. The only difference between you and me is that I'm up here and you're out there, And the only reason I'm up here is because you're out there. Right. It's true you may enjoy my show, but I'll tell you people, especially you people, you don't know it. So I'm gonna tell you you rejuvenated my life because a successful radio person is not a success simply because he does what he does. People have to listen to it, appreciate it,

and support it. And everybody in this room has. I mean for me six years ago to be mired in loneliness and aimlessly walking through life and then to come here and have tickets sell out in two hours, My friends, that hits me in the heart like nothing you can ever imagine will nothing you can ever imagine will Well. Today, we are so pleased to have a man. His title in the business is about a paragraph long, and I'm gonna read one sentence of it, so the rest of it,

you know, would take about half an hour. Phil Boyce, the senior vice president of Spoken Word for Salem Media Group. Now this is I think impressive on a number of levels. Salem is a competitor, but yet Phil is here with us, and Phil welcome. James, Thank you so much. It's an honor to be on with you. I think I met you in when I joined w ABC as program director. The station at the time when I got there was the most listened to the news talk station in the nation.

And I'll never forget sticking my head around the corner and seeing you sitting there at the control seat of the E. I B Network with Kick Carson and I think it was Brett winter Bull. It was like looking into the Starship Enterprise and seeing uh Spock and Kirk and Zulu and you guys were at the center of the universe. I mean at that time, this was so You've been doing the syndicated show with Rush for I

think seven or eight years. You guys were the top of the world at that time, and you stayed there. That was the amazing thing. You stayed there for a long long time. Now, you already alluded to the to Rush when you came into w A b C and you saw him. What was it like the first time you met Rush? Well, I want to go back for the first time I heard Rush coming out of the

speaker because That's a Kennedy like moment for me. I remember where I was and what I was doing when I first heard Rush Limbaugh coming out of the speaker. So I was the news director in Denver of Khal kho W and I had worked the morning ship. So I was driving home in the middle of the day and I was in the car right next to the Wiltshire Hills golf course when Rush comes out of the speaker. Apparently somebody was on vacation at k o A that day and Ed McLaughlin convinced them to try Rush for

a day. Well, I was immediately blown away. I mean, this guy was saying things that I had been thinking in a way that I had never heard anybody before. And back at Khal, we had been thinking about going talk. We were still playing music back in and we we just didn't have the right talent. We needed horses to do it. And I drove back to the station, went into the g MS office right that moment, and I said, turn on k Away, You've got to hear this guy. He's the guy we need to get to build the

station around. So he did, and he liked Rush, and he called his boss, the president of viacom Bill Figgenshu, and he asked Bill Figgenshu, could we grab this guy Rush Limbaugh. Apparently he's available. And Bill Figginshu said, you know what, that guy's not gonna make it. He was my roommate when we were both rock chocks at KQB in Pittsburgh, and he was a slab. He left half eaten pizza in boxes around the apartment. I don't think he's gonna make it. No, you cannot do that. He's

not gonna make it. Well, of course we know the rest is history. Uh. But and and Bill Figgershu was a nice guy. He just missed it. A lot of people missed it on Rush Rising like he did. But you know, stations that picked up Rush back in the day would get massive complaints from listeners who just hated Rush. But what they didn't understand was that every time somebody hated Rush, two or three or four people fell in love with him, and by the time they started looking

at the numbers, he was just like on fire. So by the time I got to W A. B C. And I was so honored to be the PD of a station with Rush. I mean I was in Detroit for four years trying to get Rush off the other station, and they were so loyal they wouldn't move him over to w j R, even though I was a fifty one flamethrower and he was on a pea shooter. They were loyal to that station. And I always admired that

about how they built the Russia Limbaugh network. They were very loyal to those that went with them at the beginning. And so now you're at w ABC. You're the program director at w ABC. This is the flagship station. By the way, it was the flagship station, the most iconic call that is perhaps in the radio industry. And here you are program director and Russia Limbaugh is the lead show on w ABC. Now take use. What was it your first interactions with Rush? Well, the thing that amazed

me about Rush was how humble he was. And I'll never forget walking down the hallway to his office to stick my head in and ask him about something. And I said, you know, I've only been there a few weeks, and I said, Rush, I just have to tell you what an honor it is for me to be the p D of w ABC, where you are our lead lead pony. And this has been a dream come true for me. I've been an admirer of you for years and now I get to work with you. And you know,

he was embarrassed, he was humble. Uh. He didn't react the way I expected. Uh. And I saw him like that in many occasions. Here's Rush Limbaugh, the king of talk radio by that time, and he was always a little bit embarrassed and shy to be given that kind of high praise. And I admired that about him because he didn't take it for granted. He knew the humble beginning he had. You know, here's a guy that had

been a rock jock. I mentioned Pittsburgh. He had been a rock jocks seven different places and fired seven different a M rockers. And I think he was probably fired because he wanted to talk. He didn't want to play rock. He wanted to talk, and the p d s said, drive him crazy, and they would eventually get tired of his talking and fire him until finally one day somebody said, you know, you need to be on a talk station. They put him on in Sacramento. The p D There

is a friend of mine, Tyler Cox. He's the guy that put him on in Sacramento. I think it was KF B K and uh he just took off. He took off like Gangbusters. So yeah, it was a joy and an honor for me to to work with Rush and working with him in New York. Do you recall any story that stands out about the experience, that just stands in your mind? Is this maybe the singular story? And I'm sorry if I put you on the spot

with that one, philm No, no you didn't. I to tell two stories, but the first one is what happened to me at w ABC one year into my fourteen year run there. So uh wait, wait, wait, wait what second home on my second Folks? A fourteen year run at any radio station for a program director is an amazing feat. I just wanted to insert that. It is. It's like a hundred years and dog years. And I'm convinced one of the reasons I lasted fourteen years was

because I had Rush Limbaugh. Because with Rush Limbaugh, you could tear the station down to nothing. As long as you had Rush, you could rebuild it around Rush. And you know why, I know that I did that so and and it did take five years to build w ABC back. I didn't know if I get five years. You know, they treat us like NFL head football coaches. They hire you one year, they expect Super Bowl the next.

It took me five years to rebuild the damage that we had done and bring in the talent like Hannity and Levin, and we got back to the most listen to the news talk station in the nation in two thousand one. And it was that year that I told Sean Hannity, we want to syndicate you after Rush Limbaugh, and I'm convinced that it's because of Russia limbaugh success. We were able to syndicate Hannity, and before long, Hannity became the fastest growing syndicated talk show host in history.

Because what happened to Hannity was amazing because we syndicated him on and you know what happened on day two of Hannity in syndication. Happened and Sean knocked off Dr Laura a hundred places in six months. So he became the fastest growing syndicated host in history. Okay, Phil, So one question for you, as time quickly evaporates, what do you think Russia's legacy he will be not just in

the radio industry, but in the largest sense for the country. Yeah, I think he'll go down as a icon of our time. I think he will go down much bigger than just the guy who we did talk radio and we launched talk radio, or the grandfather of talk radio. I think he'll be an icon of our time in his wisdom, in his knowledge, in the things that he said that

resonated with people. The thing that I always will never forget is people who hear Rush for the first time say he's saying what I'm thinking, and nobody else is saying it for the first time. When he came on the scene, we realized we weren't alone those of us who thought this way. And today we need that kind of wisdom more than ever. Uh. We'll never forget Rush, will never forget the legacy, will never forget what he taught us, and will benefit from it for many many

years to come. What was it like for you when you saw Rush being given the Middle of Freedom Award by President Trump? Well, I admit I teared up a little bit because I realized, first we're getting close to the end for Rush. I don't think I realized that till I saw him there. You know, he had just come out. I think of rehab or or some kind of cancer treatment when he went up on on the platform there at the Capitol, and uh, but to see

them give him a standing ovation. And I know the Democrats didn't stand, but the Republicans did and showed him so much praise. But what really amazed me, Well, I talked about the humility of Russia Limbaugh. He was genuinely touched by that, and that I will never forget. Here's a guy who had it all, but you could still bring him to tears by giving him a much deserved honor and that meant a lot to a lot of people. Well, speaking of an honor, Phil, this is in a real

honor for me. You have been one of the most incredible success stories of our time in the radio business. And more importantly to me, um than all of that, you are a great and decent human being. You treat people with respect, you treat people with kindness. You can be a demanding boss when you have to be. I know this from experience, but even in those circumstances, you do it without being demeaning and without making someone feel bad. And let me tell you, there are so many bad

actors in that people come across during their careers. It is truly a pleasure and an honor to be to know someone that's really one of the good guys, and that's who you are. Well, now you're making me feel embarrassed, sort of like I made Rush feel embar us. I really appreciate you saying that. Uh, you know, you never know in this business. You know, we joked about fourteen years being a hundred years and dog years as a p D in this format, you never know when they're

going to call you in and say that's it. Here's a box, put your stuff in it. Uh, and security's gonna escort you out. You really don't. And for me to be still in this business, still doing what I get to do, Uh, it's just an honor. And uh, you know, look, I give credit to God. God wanted me here, He gave me this career and I'm honored to do it every day. And thank you so much for what you said, because James, you're the same way.

I mean, you're You're one of the kindest, most decent people I've had the privilege of working with in this business. So let's let the good guys succeed. Amen to that. Thank you so much. Phil We really appreciate you that having you here. Thank you, James. What is American exceptional is just not that we're better people. It's not that we're smarter. It's not that we have an advantage because of our geography, because we clearly don't. But what what

is it that sets us apart? And there's one answer, and it's found in the Declaration of Independence. We're all endowed by our Creator, so we acknowledge God as a country when we were founded, we acknowledge God that we were all created. We are rolling down by our Creator with certain inalienable rights, undeniable. They're just there and they come from the Creator among them, but not just life, liberty,

pursuit of happiness. That's pretty simple to me. Those three things, the acknowledgement of our creation by God, loving God, that our creation, that our that our spirit has this natural yearning to be free and to be happy, and that there's nothing wrong with either of thom. There's nothing wrong with being created, nothing wrong with being happy or trying to be and there's certainly nothing wrong with living. It was that codification that made one crucial thing possible, and

that is for ordinary people to accomplish extraordinary things. Not the smartest, not the brightest, not the wellborn, not the richest. Ordinary. This is a nation. It became the greatest nation in human history. However, many hundreds of thousands, billions, whatever years you want to say, we've been plotting the earth, ordinary people accomplishing extraordinary things. Thanks to Michael Harrison and Phil Boyce, coming up on our next and final episode of this series,

loaded with special treats. First of all, the broad cast engineer for almost the entire length of the Russiland Black Program. Our good friend Mike Mamone joins us for a few moments. Plus, We're going to share the thoughts and words of many of those in Russia's world, whose voices you already know because they sat in the seat they were the guest

host on the show. If that weren't enough, we have a very special v I P guest who will share his thoughts on Russia, lan Ball, none other than the forty President of the United States, Donald J. Trump, will join us for a few minutes as well. All that in our jam packed final episode, Russia. Limbaugh, The Man behind the Golden E I B Microphone, is produced by Chris Kelly and Phil Tower, the best producers in America, Production assistant Mike Mamone and the executive producers Craig Kitchen

and Julie Talbot. Our program distributed worldwide by Premier Networks. Found on the I Heart Radio app or wherever you listen to your favorite podcast. This is James Golden. This is both Snerdley, This is James Golden. I'm honored to be your host for this in every single episode of Russia. Lumbaugh, the man behind the Golden E I B microphone, thank you for being with us,