Episode 38: Mark Vernon (Second Conversation)

Rupert Spira and Mark Vernon met for a second conversation, beginning with one of William Blake’s great exclamations of nondual awareness:

“Awake! awake O sleeper of the land of shadows, wake! expand!
I am in you and you in me, mutual in love divine
I am not a God afar off, I am a brother and friend;
Within your bosoms I reside, and you reside in me:
Lo! we are One”

They discussed the meanings of suffering and death that feel so needed and neglected in our times; different possibilities for the experience of time and the value of disagreement, similarly overlooked; the role of the erotic, play and the imagination on this path; and the reality of angels and the guidance of myths.