Two-Brain Radio: How to Turn Prospective Clients Into Paying Clients

Hey, it's Mateo of Two-Brain Marketing. On this edition of—

Hey Mateo, excuse me, I just have a couple of questions about Facebook advertising. My leads aren't converting. Can you give me some help here?

Mike? Mike, is that you?

Yeah, yeah, my ads. I'm having some ad problems. You got time for me, or what?

Well, I'm kind of doing my weekly podcast right now.

How about this? How about this time we make you the show and I'll be the host.

OK, I guess. Does Chris know about this?

I loosely briefed him. I'm not going to say he knows knows, but like he's OK with it; let's just say he's good with it.

Well, I guess it's better to ask for forgiveness than for permission, so yeah, let's do it.

Yeah, he's Canadian. He's just going to let it roll anyway, so we're good. This week on Two-Brain Radio, it's a not-hostile takeover of the marketing podcast. I'm Mike Warkentin of Two-Brain Media. I'm turning the tables on host Mateo Lopez. He's our regular and he's the guest this week. Now we're going to talk about one of the most valuable things you can buy: contact info for prospective clients. I'll be back with Mateo Lopez right after this.

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OK, we are back. This is Two-Brain Radio. I'm Mike Warkentin. I'm here with marketing expert Mateo Lopez . Mateo , I have a personal question for you right now. Would you give me your cell phone number right now on the air? So anyone listening can text you at any time they want with a marketing question. Can I have your cell phone number?

Well, Mike, I think you have it. You want me to read it out loud?

Tell me one more time just so our listeners maybe know where you're at.

I don't think I want to do that.

Why is that?

Well , now that you ask, I'm worried that our audience of just r ockstar gym owners, they're so good at following up with people that they're just going to call me nonstop and try a nd sell me o n a membership. That's what I'm worried about.

That's going to happen. You know that if you gave out your cell phone number, I bet by the end of this call you would have probably six texts from gym owners who are like, "Mateo, I heard about your goals of getting a little fitter in 2020. I've got this awesome six-week program. Did you want to come in and meet with a coach? Talk about your goals?"

Yeah. They're either going to do that or be like, hey, can you fix my ads?

That's the other thing. But that's why you're on the show. And that's why we're taking over this week is cause I want to ask you some questions. You're the expert. You're often now hosting people and talking about their success. I want to talk about this stuff. I wanna get some knowledge out of you to help our listeners. So this time we are going over the power of contact info. When we're doing marketing, you know, essentially we're using Facebook and places like that.

Well, a win is, yeah, getting people to opt in. With our ads, we're trying to get exactly what you said, we're trying to get contact info, we're trying to get people to get people to see our ad, think the thing looks kinda cool, spark some interest and then get them to opt in, give us their name, email and phone number. That's the goal with pretty much every one of our campaigns.

It's kind of like dating, you know. I haven't done that for a while , but it's like—

I haven't either. I haven't even in probably close to nine years. So, yeah. What do you mean by that, Mike?

Well I just mean, see I'm in the same stage where I haven't had to try and get someone's phone number for about 10 years cause I'm married. But I remember back in the day, right, that was the game. And you're trying to find a phone number or email if you know, whatever, Snapchat, whatever communication you're using, we're trying to find a way to connect, right?

Yeah. It means that someone's exactly what you're saying, you know, opting in for more info, really. Inquiring for more information about whatever the thing is that they saw in the ad, whether it's, you know, a free trial or whether it's a program, whether it's an intro, you know, body-comp session, whatever it is. Yeah, you're trying to get people to inquire, opt in for more info and learn

So we'll skip over the creative right now because that's a whole different thing that we're going to talk about and you can do so many awesome things with creative to get people to click those buttons. But let's say as I do, I use your system and I've got this lead sheet set up and I see this thing pop people in. So they're coming through my Facebook ad and they're clicking learn more and they're going through my landing page and they're putting their info in it.

Well, hopefully you're calling them right away, Mike,

Like, I'm canceling this podcast interview to like pick up the phone here and do the thing that the—

If you got a ping right now, you should hang up with me and go call that person. Yeah.

That's how important this info is, right. When this happens. Like we want speed, but it's so critically important that you have this info to use it now.

Yeah. And especially right at that moment, because you know, there are so many reasons why , but I mean the most, the easiest and simplest and fastest one is like if they opted in, they're probably by a computer, or they did it on their phone, which means, you know they're by their phone right now, right at that moment. So that's the best chance you're gonna have at connecting with them and saying , hey, I saw that you inquired , what's up? What had you interested in CrossFit whatever.

That's funny, Mateo. That's like when you're texting someone they're not answering and then you see them posting on Facebook. I know that person's on his phone.

Exactly. You know they're on their phone. But yeah, I mean that's the goal. I mean, unless you don't want to talk to prospects and leads and make money, and if you don't want to do those things, then yeah, you can just collect the info and sit on it for years and that's an also an option.

And waste your ad spend completely.

Exactly.

So let's talk about this, because there are people that are like, they're skeptical about marketing. I was definitely one of them because it's like, it's not my thing. I hate calling people. I hate reaching out. I don't like it. But talk to me about when someone opts into an ad, gives you their info, what are they saying to you?

Well, I also want to say it doesn't have to be from paid traffic. If someone opts in, just landed on your website organically, you know, same thing, the chances are they're by their phone or their computer right then is like very high. So you should hit them up right away regardless of whether you're spending money to acquire people or not.

That's a fair point.

And if they are opting in, they're basically saying , they're raising their hand and saying, I volunteer as tribute. You know, I see what you're saying. So let's say the ad says, you know, 21-day metabolic makeover , get fit and ready for the beach in 21 days. Whatever.

I'd like to sign up now.

Yeah. If someone opts into that, they're saying, oh, I want to get fit in 21 days and be ready for the beach. Can you please help me do that? That's what they're saying when they opt in, when they're inquiring. So , if that's what they're saying, then it behooves you to call them right away and help them do that.

Quick question. You know, just asking for a friend, is that a real program that someone could sign up for if someone were interested?

Could be.

We'll talk offline. You might be able to help me out with a few things, but we'll chat more about that later. But the point is that people are saying, you know, when someone opts into this thing, what they're asking for is they're asking for your help, your expertise, your knowledge, all the things that you can do to solve their problems, correct?

They're literally saying, take me to the next step.

Yeah. So a business owner shouldn't see this as an annoyance to call this person. It's basically fulfilling your end of the deal, am I right?

Yeah. So I'll get on the phone with gym owners and they'll be like, I don't want to call this person at nine o'clock at night. I was like, they opted in at nine? They are not at work, they are not doing anything. They are watching Netflix and they are chilling. And they saw your ad and they were probably like, oh, you know what, I should probably not be watching Netflix right now. I should probably be sleeping and like getting healthier. So you need to call them right at that moment.

They asked for it.

They've literally asked for it. So, you know, they're asking for help.

So what's been your response? So you've done these calls, correct? Like you at gyms. What's the response? Like, talk me through, let's say like you get the message and you right away within, I don't know, 20, 30 seconds of this opt- in, you hit that person. What are you saying right away? And what's the response? What do these people say?

Ah , well, you're saying, hey, it's Mateo from, from CrossFit Rittenhouse. I saw that you just opted in for—or not opted in. Saw you're interested in our program. Can you tell me a little bit about your goals and what had you interested? And right there, let's just get started. You just ask them right away.

And so what do they say? Are they shocked that it's you right away? Real person?

Yeah. I mean , yes, 100%. Sometimes they don't pick up, so I double dial and yeah, if you can get them in that like 30 seconds response or less than that, they'll be kind of like, oh my God, that's so wild. Like you're sending a message that like you have a professionalized business. You know, you're not messing around and you know, you're already right away sending that message to them that, yeah, we're going to take care of you. This is how we treat our clients.

Are people shocked that it's a real person?

Are they shocked it's a real person.

Or someone who actually knows what he or she is talking about as opposed to like, you know, the scripted stuff from, you know , call center kind of stuff?

Yeah. I mean, I think that's the other thing too, right? You're already starting to build rapport. So if you can get them with—if you can call them right away and kind of make light of, or make a joke about like, oh yeah, how quickly you responded, right there you're starting to win them over to your side. You're starting to build some rapport, build some trust. So yeah, and I think people like that they're not talking to a bot also. Which is nice, too.

Does anyone, when you give them these calls, is anyone just like irritated?

Oh yeah, a hundred percent.

So what's the psychology of that? They've opted in and they want, you know, they're asking for something and then you call and they're like, why are you calling? Like, what's the psychology there?

That I don't know. But I just know it—I mean, when you're dealing with the volume of inquiries that you're getting, yeah. You're going to get some people who were just scrolling by and clicked it cause they just wanted to click it and you call them. They're like, why don't—I've gotten some where it's like they opted in, I call five seconds later. Like, hey, I saw you're interested. Oh, I changed my mind. It's like you literally just opted in. You literally just did it.

Yeah. So you get one hostile guy, but you might get like three or four sign-ups and make your gym, you know, $1,500 in front-end revenue.

A hundred percent. I mean you might be dealing with more. More hostility than positivity for sure. You know, the example I like to give, and I've given it on here, but I'll give it one more time for you Mike . You know, let's say you put $1,000 into online ads. Say you get a hundred leads, right? Let's say out of a hundred , you're only going to sell 20 of them. And let's say your front-end package is $500. So what is that? That's $10,000.

“How to Add 10,000 of Revenue”? “How to Sell Your Gym”? “What to Do After the Open”—holy $hit, Cooper’s written a ton of help guides.

C’mon Sean. Just read the ad.

Did you know he gives this stuff away? Like for free?

Yup. That's his thing.

You don't have to.

But I would. What kind of business expert gives everything away?

Chris gives it away so owners can fix their gyms and earn enough to pay for mentoring.

Oh, that’s actually pretty clever. Should we do the ad?

Never mind. Just tell them where to get the Free Help Kit.

Get your Free Help Kit at twobrainbusiness.com/free-tools. Click the link in the show notes

Now do the thing from the competition. Come on Sean.

Are you not entertained?

And

And they buy your premium package, right? They're not buying the group. They buy your personal training and nutrition one . And they're going to stay a while and then they bring their partner or their spouse later. And so it all, it all just compounds.

Yeah, and we're gonna get further down the line in this series we're gonna talk a little more targeting and how you can maybe work some angles to try and find more of those people earlier rather than finding some of the really strange people in the gen pop, I guess we'll call it , for lack of a better term, but that dealing with that rejection for some of the people that are listening is like, you're not going to hit a home run every single time. Right.

Booking? I mean, you want to have—the golden standard is like, and it's tough to do this for sure. My gyms can't even do it this way, the percentages are a little skewed, but 70/70/70 is kind of like the gold standard, right? So 70% of people who opt in book. 70% of those people who book actually show up and then 70% of those people who show up actually buy. So by the end of it though, if you had a hundred people, 30% I guess are actually buying, right?

The 20/20/20?

No, no, no, no, no. At the bottom end. So 20 out of a hundred. Right. And you know, and then that 70/70/70, right. But you can have like 60, 80, you know, 70. You can kind of move stuff around, right? Or whatever it is. Like if you have a higher—and you can diagnose, right? Let's say you have a really high booking rate, but a low show rate, then you know, OK, I gotta work on the show or vice versa, your show and your sales rate are both really good, but your booking rate's bad .

Yeah. And like we talked about on the first episode of the series , you guys can go back in the archives and listen to it, if you're tracking the ROI, you then know from those, you know , 20 people that you close, you know what your front-end revenue is. So you balance that against your ad spend. I spent a thousand, I made 10,000, whatever it is. And then also your length of engagement because you're using Two-Brain Business principles, pardon me.

Yeah. I mean, and this is something we talked about in the summit. Like let's say you spent a thousand and you only made a thousand on the front end, right? Let's say you broke even. Or by the time you pay out some of your coaches, maybe you're losing a little bit of money. If you spent a thousand, you sold a thousand. Let's say you sold two people on a $500 package, right? So you made a thousand bucks .

Now, I heard from you guys, there's a company that kind of does this sort of with a little bit of success. I think it was called Netflix or something, right? Like what is their cost of acquisition? Right? What is that?

Yeah. I mean, so , I think they're spending about, I think their client acquisition cost is about 400 something dollars, $490. I don't remember exactly what it was.

But it's a lot.

It's like in the 400 range. Yeah. I think it's like 450 they spend to acquire a customer. So that means they're not breaking even on that person until you know, if your Netflix subscription is , you know, I don't know what it is, 10, $11, whatever it is. They're not making their money back until after that first year. Or first two years, I should say. Sorry. If their client acquisition costs is, you know, 400 bucks.

So you can't make that spend with confidence if you don't know your length of engagement, right?

Well, but they know, right? If they stay for three years, all right, well I'm making money. And they're happy to do that all day long. You know, so those are called loss leaders and it's a little bit scary to do that in a gym. And you know, for your business, it may not work out for you to do that.

You just have to have the cashflow to cover that while you're waiting. Right?

Correct. Which is why loss leaders might not work for every gym or every business. But there is a way to make that happen.

When I use your system, I'm looking at it and it's telling me the max, you know, I'm using your spreadsheet and I'm putting the numbers and it's telling me the max costs that I can spend and I'm not even close to it. So when I look at my ads and I'm like, Oh , OK, I'm getting these for eight bucks and I can spend 50 bucks. I'm like, we're all good here.

Exactly.

Yeah. So going back to contact info again, we've got people out there that are listening , we're buying conversations or the opportunity to have conversations. Let's give people a couple of tips here and things that they can do. They get contact info, and I'm just going to summarize what you said, the first thing you need to do is they need to call right away. Correct ?

Correct.

Like, is that the most important thing? Like beyond anything else? Like, literally like get off your bike, stop on the side of the road and start dialing?

Speed is, yeah , super important. The other piece there is persistency.

How many times? How long will you go?

Is persistency a word? Persistence. Persistence is number two. So speed's number one. And then , you have to call him right away. And then persistence is the second piece, right? You can't just give up on the first call.

So when do you give up?

Never.

Never. You're like Sherman Merricks and you're banging on doors?

Never give up.

You

Yeah. I mean, I think we like to teach the gym owners nine contact attempts. There's some studies out there where the probability that you connect with a person, it jumps up each time you call and by that ninth call it jumps up to 90%, right where you're at at like a 40% chance of connecting on the first call.

40. Wow .

Yeah. So, you know, less than a 50/50 shot on that first call that you're going to make contact. But on the ninth one, the chances are pretty high.

So let me ask you this, and you can ballpark this, but of the gym owners that you work with or that you know your marketing mentors work with, how many do you think, what percentage are actually calling nine times with a lead?

Oh , those are sirens.

That's because you gave away the secret sauce. People are coming.

The percentage is I would say not high.

OK. So like what, 20, 20, 25 30?

I'm putting you on the spot. But I'm just curious. Yeah, I mean, no, and not every , it's not high. And the reason why it's not high is because it's tough and a lot of us are, you know, still doing it on our own. Right. We still got classes to teach. We still got memberships to sell. We still got Zen Planner things to solve. So, you know, it's tough to get to that 9-call mark.

Oh, so let me think about this. So let's phrase it a different way. So we have listeners that are out there and they're like, man, my marketing is kind of blah, or my business is kind of blah , or whatever I'm thinking about marketing. So even if the people that you're currently—of the people that you're currently working with, if someone just decided that I'm going to start calling all leads nine times every single time starting today, what do you think would happen to that business?

You'd make some sales.

Yeah. You're certain of that?

You'd make some sales.

Yeah, no brainer, right?

Yeah. You'd

If someone's listening right now, really like you've got your lead sheet going and I'm guilty of this. I'll tell you right now, I've got people on my lead sheet, if I would just start calling these people nine times, I'm gonna make some sales. I'll ask you a question in addition to that, how would you space out those nine calls? Are we talking like nine calls a week, nine calls a day, a year? What do you think?

We like to do three times for three days. That's what we like to do. And then on that third day, push them into the long- term nurture.

Like mailing list stuff.

Yeah. Everyone does it differently, you know? But it's yeah, you put them on if you have a long drip campaign, if you have a newsletter list , you push them over there. And then, you know, at the end of the month or at the end of every quarter, you can go check that out and give another shot. Dead lead lists , you know, come up with some kind of an offer. Like, hey, saw you were interested a couple months ago, got this new program, want to reach out again, yada, yada, yada.

So we're going to get into that even more. We're going to talk about the speed, I think this is going to come up a bunch of times in this series because people just, I know, I know gym owners are busy. I'm busy, but if you can, you know, if you start thinking about this and Two-Brain principles and figuring out where you want to invest your business to move the needle and you're directly able to track your sales, maybe it's worth hiring someone to be able to respond immediately.

Yes.

Yeah. And in Two-Brain principles, we teach you how to do that, right? To look at your business and say, OK, I've got these jobs I can offload. I can pay this guy $12 an hour to respond any time someone calls immediately. Right. You can find some ways to do that.

Yeah. I was on the phone with James Mawson. He was on the podcast a couple of weeks ago and he made an interesting point. There is an argument to be made where that's actually the highest value role. Depending on where you're at in your business. So it might be, you know, it may be more valuable for you to actually get on the phone and start selling and getting people to come in. Maybe that will be a better use of your time than coaching class.

That's so mind blowing. Back to 2009 CrossFit or whatever, wherever people are at, some of the old school people. That is mind blowing to me because for me, all I saw when I started the gym was I just need to coach and I need to be an awesome coach and teach a squat . I need to do this. But in reality I probably needed to start figuring out some marketing. If I had done that in 2010 I'd probably be light years ahead.

Yeah, I mean you do have to make sure that your service is awesome, right ? So yes, to say that like, the most important job for me was to be coaching. I mean, your service needs to be stellar because if it's stellar, then people stay longer. And if people can stay longer or will stay longer, you can spend more on your ads. Right. So it all kind of feeds back into each other. But yeah, I mean I guess the, the plan for 2009, you should have been clone yourself.

And how many times are you going to call those leads?

I think nine times, Mike.

Nine times. Mateo, before we go here , are you sure you don't want to hand out your cell phone number?

I am quite sure.

OK. We'll try later on the series, guys. I'll see if I can get Mateo's number so you can call him. This has been a takeover of the Two-Brain marketing podcast. This is Two-Brain Radio. I'm Mike Warkentin, I've been here spending time with Mateo Lopez of Two-Brain Marketing. Guys, we've got more of this coming. We've also got Chris Cooper on our other shows and Sean Woodland talking to the CrossFit community. Please subscribe to this podcast. Leave us a review, leave us a comment.

Thank you for listening to Two-Brain Radio. Make sure to subscribe to receive the most up-to-date episodes wherever you get your podcasts from. To find out how we can help create your Perfect Day, book a free call with a mentor at twobrainbusiness.com.