Hello and welcome to this week's episode of Run a Profitable Gym . I am your host, John Franklin, the CMO at two Brain Business. Here with me this week is my friend and colleague, Matt Temby , the head of sales at Two Brain Business, and also the owner of Vault Health and Fitness. How are you doing Matt Tenby ?
I'm doing great job, Franklin. How are you?
I am fantastic. I am charged up. I normally don't record this early in the morning, so , uh, you're getting the front end of the coffee instead of the tail end . So you came on the podcast a month or two ago. We talked about the front end of the sales process, so , um, discovery and building up to the pitch, but we didn't talk about the pitch itself and handling objections.
So if you haven't listened to the first podcast, go listen to that. We will build off of that because this week we are talking all about driving through sales friction and getting to Yes . So Matt, I think a good place to start is answering why do people get sales objections in the first place?
Yeah, the sales objections come from , um, awareness to change or a lack of awareness to change. So if you don't do a good job in discovery, people aren't gonna be aware that they actually have a problem. The second piece to that is making a decision that they need to make a change.
If you don't have those two pieces before you go to drop the price of whatever your investment is for your service, you're not going to get an answer today, which means that you are not gonna be able to help that person change their life . So you have to have awareness, you have to have decision before they can take action. That ex that happens when you shake hands and exchange money.
So one of the things we talked about was most gym owners rush the discovery process. I know we did a whole podcast on it, but what are the key components of that discovery process? What do you need to know before you get into the actual pitch of the service?
Yeah, you have to know what their problem is. You have to understand where they would like to go. So like current state is problem, future state is their goal. Take 'em up to the top of the mountain so they can see a picturesque view of what their life could look like with , uh, your solution. Then you gotta bring 'em back down to the pit of despair , uh, through cost of inion .
Like what happens if nothing changes , uh, where are you gonna be six months from now? And then ultimately it comes down to them taking ownership that they're gonna be the hero of the story, whether they like it or not. Nobody else can do it for them . Your service will help with that. But again, we can't do it for our clients.
So those are the four things that you really need to grab in discovery to get somebody ready to make a decision. Whether they decide yes or no, that is gonna be what we talk about today. Um, but we need to help them make a decision today.
And based off of the training you do with gym owners and your team, where are people weakest? What are the parts that get glossed over the most
In discovery or in the close
In discovery? We're not, we're not closing just yet.
Not closing just yet, yet . Um, they is really around the cost of inaction and ownership. You know, people will sit down across from you and say, Hey, I wanna make this change. But if we don't build some kind of like consequence around, if you don't do something and you wait another six months, are you going to be in the same spot?
And sometimes they'll think that they will be, but actually that probably becomes worse. It compounds over time. And so we have to help them be aware of what is actually going to happen if they don't do something about this. And then they have to know that they have the king or they , they're the king or queen of the castle. They have the key to the kingdom.
So if they really wanna make a change, they have to step up and take action to do that.
As zoom owners , a lot of time is spent thinking about the competition. What are they doing? What are they charging? Will this person go over there? But Matt touched on a good point. A lot of times you are not competing against the competition. The real competition is inaction that person going back to their couch telling you, Hey, I'm gonna think about it.
You let 'em walk out the gym and then they just do nothing and maybe you have a conversation again six months down the road, but most of the time they're on to the next thing after that. So today we're gonna teach you how to get the, get the yes and get the person closer to their goal.
Now, assuming the discovery's tight, and again, if you want a full hour breakdown of the discovery, go listen to the first podcast that I did with Matt a couple months ago. We move into the pitch. And so what does the pitch look like in one of your gyms ?
Yeah, the pitch really has to be customized based on what the person said that they are trying to accomplish. And you know, as two Brandon's talked about for a long time, using the prescriptive model, like it's our responsibility as a gym owner or as a coach to give them the true solution. Like the best solution to reach their goals is, is really what we need to customize and we need to hit on the points of pain .
So if somebody says, Hey, I really struggle with, you know, if it's a a suburban mom, I struggle with uh, having freedom of time, cool. Then you need to hit on like, hey, we have eight session time that you can get into, or you can do one-on-one with me and we'll just choose the time that works for you every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.
If it's somebody that needs more accountability, then you should highlight your client journey over the first a hundred days of like, we're gonna check in with you at day 30, 60 and 90. We're gonna sit down with you and adjust your plan.
All these things that we've already built out in our businesses, now is the time to highlight specifically based on the pain and being the bridge to get them the thing that they actually want.
Is this something where you're gonna deliver three different membership options and allow them to choose from a menu? Or are you giving them one membership option and then based off of what they say upselling or downselling?
Yeah, you give them the the one option that is going to get them to their goal the fastest.
Okay. And what does that look like? What, what are you looking for in the conversation to make the right assessment of which package is right for them?
Yeah, so for, for most two brain clients , um, they're gonna gonna have an on-ramp, which is one-on-one personal training to you know, make sure that people are training safe efficiently and that you're building some kind of like one-on-one connection with that person. So you're gonna have that depending on how it's packaged.
So I'll just use one of my gyms for, for example, we start with one-on-one, and then you can package that with 12 weeks of group. And we do a front end nutrition program that is like our bonus to you 'cause it's a self-guided program. So you get all of that plus your accountability checkpoints and your body composition scans.
So I'm gonna, I'm gonna present that as a paid in full price and I'm gonna ask them how they feel and then they're gonna respond and then we're gonna get into objection handling from that, you have to expect that there's going to be objections. It's kinda like going to the prom, like the prom ends in a dance, but it doesn't start with that.
You got pictures at your friend's house, you have dinner, you have whatever games. Uh, it's been a long time since I went to prom. Uh, and then you have the dance, so you have to be ready for that. If you don't come prepared , um, you're gonna be like the awkward kid standing in the corner that's not having any fun. Uh, and you're not gonna change any lies if , if you do that. So that's what you would do.
Um, I would present that for that person based on the things that they had told me. Now, if that's not the right fit for them, if they're never gonna go into group, I'm just gonna say, Hey, we're gonna start you with one-on-one training and we're gonna start two times a week and then we'll assess after the first month.
And I love what you said there. You pitch the paid in full price and you ask them how they feel. And this is something that you've championed within Two Brain as a business that has been a game changer for two brains business at a much larger ticket than the average gym is uh, doing.
So let's talk through that because I think that one little tip, if we kind of work through that a little bit, that can make a dramatic difference for a lot of the gym owners listening here. And it's something that could help them pay for mentorship relatively quickly instead of dripping in payments throughout the course of a year, two years.
Being able to get that all on the front end is incredible and useful, especially if you are someone who is struggling and , uh, you know, trying to figure out where the rent to payroll money are coming every month. So explain it to me exactly how you would pitch the pricing for your higher ticket to higher tier program. Assume explain what your avatar is first and then we can, we can go from there.
Yeah. Okay. So I'll use , uh, I'll use one of my other studios. It's a small group personal training studio. So we have a six week program , uh, where we're going to , you're gonna pay for four weeks because we don't believe in discounts. We're gonna give you two additional weeks. And then we have our nutrition program , uh, that same program at the other gym, we're gonna include that.
So , um, it's 400 if you train with us two times per week, 500 for three times 600 if you train , uh, four times and 700 if you train five times per week. So let's just role play out this out and, and we'll see where this goes. So John , based on everything that we've shared today , um, I believe that the three times a week option is gonna be the best fit to reach you to your goals.
So the investment for this program, it's gonna be $500 upfront . So how do you feel about that? It
Was a little more than I was looking to spend to be honest.
Okay. Tell me , tell me a little bit more about that.
I did group training, so I'm coming from a background of orange theory , like I told you, and I was paying about 139 a month there. I know you said the class sizes are smaller, so I was expecting it to be a little more expensive but not four times as expensive. Okay.
Well John , just to make sure I understand what conversation we're having, like, you know , just a minute ago you said that you feel like this is the right plan for you. Do , do you still feel that way or has the price changed that
I think this training is gonna be more effective for me than what I was doing before.
Okay. And you believe that it can get you to the goal that you shared with me about, you know, adding five pounds of muscle over the next year?
I think so.
Well, do you think so? Or do you know? So because like we , we need to make sure that, that you have confidence that this is the right thing for you.
I know if I, I'm able to consistently do the work that this should work for me. Yeah.
Right. Okay. And so all those details and like that smaller session size and all of these, these touch points , do you believe that that will actually get you to show up to the gym the three times per week so we can get that muscle on your frame?
Yeah, that definitely sounds like something I was missing in my old gym .
Okay. So let's, let's put the money aside. We're , we're gonna tackle that here in just a second. So do you want to do the program, John ?
Yeah, I do.
Okay. So it's just a , a matters of a matter of ones and zeros and , and figuring out like the right payment structure for you? Is that the conversation we're having?
Yeah, I mean I, I definitely don't think I'd be able to put down 500 today. Okay,
Perfect. Well that's helpful for me to know. So what we can do is we can put you onto a payment option where we pay for this weekly over the course of the first six weeks of the program. So instead of paying upfront the 500, it's gonna be 600, but we're gonna break that down into a hundred dollars per week. Is that something that you're able to move forward with even though you , you don't have the 500 today,
Is it something where we could do the 500 over the six weeks, like weekly?
We're not able to do that because there's a risk for us if you're not gonna be consistent. Uh, so we wanna make sure that there's gonna be a little bit more skin in the game because we're splitting up these payments and you know, there's some logistics and it's gonna take more time for us to set up your payment plan.
Okay. Let's do it.
Okay, great.
I like the neg, you know, just Matt assume that I needed to put on five pounds of muscle just really cutting me down a notch in the , in the consultative selling process right there. Yep . All right . So that was great.
So you asked for the full payment upfront , asked how I felt, got conviction to the program and then teased out that it was maybe a lump sum issue and offered a solution in the form of a payment plan.
Yeah. And you, and you gave me that information. So if you didn't volunteer that, that's the next question is like, do you have the $500 and you're just like a little concerned about giving that to me or do you not have the $500? So let's just go back and role play that you don't have the $500.
Okay. You can hit me with the, I think you were at the ones and zeros part, I'm assuming that would be the Yeah , that would be the, yeah .
Or is this just a , you know, John , is this just a simple case of, of figuring out the ones and zeros?
I just don't have the $500 to get started.
Okay. Well if, if you don't mind me asking, so like it sounds like we're sitting on the same side of the table and we're just trying to get a solution of how we can get you started. Is that right?
Yeah, I would like to figure out a way to make this happen. Perfect.
So John, we have a payment plan that we can offer to you, but before we even tackle the details on that, let's just figure out like where you can potentially get this money from. So I'm just gonna ask you if you're okay with it, a few questions so that you can think through like some of the resources that you might have access to.
So let's start, like do you think that you have any, like do cash laying around the , the , the house or maybe like stuff in your couch cushions at home?
A little bit, but definitely not $500. That's a , that's a lot of money in the couch cushion.
Okay. Alright . And then do you have a savings account that you don't typically tap into for, for things like this that you might have access to?
I have like , uh, my health savings account. Yeah.
Okay, that's perfect. We can definitely use that. Do you think that you had the 500 in there or do we need to continue to be resourceful and , and find other other methods?
I think I, I have around something like that and I may be a little to hobble the rest together from underneath my couch cushion.
Okay. Well I'm gonna give you just a couple other options just so that you have these in the back of your mind. If you have a credit card that you don't typically use , um, that could be an option that you could put this on. Um, if you typically use a credit card, you know , you might have uh, just like your regular bank checking account and then something else that you could probably do.
Um, if you have people in your life that love you and that usually give you not super practical gifts for your birthday or for like Christmas , um, instead of them giving you that thing, you could probably just ask them for money in advance , um, and like hold the gift and just tell them , Hey, I'm doing this important thing.
Could you give that uh , you know, that sock and underwear package that I'm gonna get in Christmas at Christmas? Can I just get that money up front ? So those would be some other options if you don't have enough in the couch cushion and in the HSA savings account .
Alright , so let's , uh, let's engineer a way to make this happen. Cool,
Let's
Do it. And then I'm assuming if it was something where it just wasn't there, you could, you could down tell into a smaller package,
Correct? Yep . So if you couldn't do the three times a week training , um, at 500 for, for that start, I'd drop you down to the 400 at two times a week. And then if that wasn't an option , um, and if you're a gym owner that doesn't have two locations that are like within 15 minutes, this probably isn't a good option for you.
But then I would talk to you about my other location , um, and doing a onboarding program for one-on-one into group because it would be less , uh, it would be less of an investment in
Long term . Right. And that's the asterisk here. If you're listing along as a CrossFit gym owner, I'm assuming since it's a small group training facility that the people, like how often do you get into a situation where someone doesn't have $500 to their name to get started?
Yeah, it happens, happens weekly.
Weekly. But it , it , it's less frequent than maybe some of your, your larger group gyms.
Yeah. Yeah .
Okay. So just a , just an asterisk there. Like it's a more premium gym , you're gonna have a more premium clientele. Uh, this may happen a little bit more if you are lower ticket or an access facility that's maybe trying to sell some personal training. So , um, just a , just a caveat there. Okay. So we handled that and that was basically the, it's a pricing objection right there. So that is one objection.
Let , let's kind of talk through the most common objections 'cause we, we may have skipped over that step getting into role play here.
Yeah. So most common objections that you're gonna have is think about it, which is like the, probably the number one that you're gonna get in a gym setting. You're gonna get partner occasionally , um, and then you're gonna have money, fear or logistics. Now nobody's coming out and saying I'm afraid, right?
You have to, as you build your sales skills and you have more and more reps you're gonna identify and you're gonna have to label that for the person. And you'll have to ask like, do you think that this might be a little bit of fear coming out? And then there's four different types of fears that we can talk about and then there's logistics. And logistics is the simplest one to solve.
That's typically like, Hey, I have spring break coming up spring or I'm gonna be traveling for work next month and I don't wanna miss a week. Uh , those ones are really simple to handle
And that's probably one of the most common that people are getting right now as we go into the summertime, especially if you are anywhere on the coast. Everyone has travel, vacation, summer house, all those things. So how do you handle the logistics objection because I'm sure that is one that our , uh, listeners get frequently.
Yeah. Do you wanna role play this or you want me just to kind of walk you through it?
You can just say, hey , uh, if we get to the end, I can tell you, Hey, this all sounds good, I wanna sign up. But in September I I'm gonna be traveling a lot with the kids and it just doesn't make sense for me to do something like this right now if I'm gonna have to stop for two weeks to go to Italy and then stop for another two weeks when I go to California.
Yeah. Got it. Okay. So John, do you, do you typically do a lot of travel throughout the course of the year? It's
A lot more in the summertime when the kids are off school.
Okay. But it's something that's like gonna be part of your regular lifestyle for the rest of your life? Probably
In the summertime, yeah.
Okay, cool. And you said that you want, like, part of your goal is just like to be consistent so that you feel better and that you have more energy for life in general. So seems like this is gonna pop up like, you know, every nine months. Um, so what I would suggest is like we can take care of the logistics. I'm not worried about you being gone for a month this summer.
Like we will handle the billing stuff appropriately for you. But is the program still something that you want to do? Yeah. Okay. Well today's July 1st and you said that you're gonna travel in August and then again in September. So you know, you could punt this, you know, another 10 weeks, 10, 12 weeks.
Or what we can do is we can get you started now and then, like I said, my team and I, we will handle the, the four weeks that you're gonna be gone. That's no problem. But that way we can start making progress towards your goal of being consistent and having more energy. And you're probably gonna enjoy these trips that you have coming up in August and September a little bit more if you do that.
So would you like to go ahead and get started today and then we'll take care of that other stuff later ?
I would love to Matt.
Cool, then let's do it. So when it comes to logistics, you have to put their mind at ease. And the simplest way to, to do that, when you hear that logistical objection, just say, Hey, that's no problem. We'll take care of it. And then you as the business owner and you can empower your team to say, that's not a problem.
And then you guys can figure it out in the, the back office on the backend of how you're gonna go about handling that for this new client that you're gonna help change their life.
Alright , so we handled , uh, it's too expensive or some questions about the pricing. We just went through logistics, which is probably one of the more common ones that you're getting. Now let's talk about the spousal objection. So how do you handle the spousal objection?
Yep . So , uh, when, when somebody says, yeah, that sounds great, I just need to go home and talk to my spouse about it, you are going to lower sales resistance because if you're like, well what do you need to talk to your spouse about? Right? You're gonna trigger sales resistance. They're gonna want to get out of that conversation as quickly as possible. So you're gonna say, yeah, that's no problem.
Like, I have a partner too. I totally get that. Now before you go away and have that conversation, you know , I just wanna make sure that everything that we went through today that you believe that this can get you to x, y , z goal . So we want to double down on like confidence in the program. They're gonna say yes again 'cause we already got that tied out earlier in the conversation.
Then I'm gonna ask them again why they feel that way, reaffirm that. So you get a double tie down there and then you say, okay, and you know, when you take this time to go away and talk to your spouse about this, like what's coming up in your mind that that makes you want to have that conversation.
And so they're either going to give you a different objection, they're gonna give you the real objection of like, Hey, we have a vacation coming up, or we're gonna be spending a month away at the lake house, or, well , I just gotta talk through the money with 'em or, or, you know, I'm concerned because like I've done a program like this in the past and it didn't go super well.
Um , now they, so that would give you the real objection, right? So then you can dig into one of those three. Now if they, if they stick with it of like, well this is just like how we make our decisions, then you're gonna try to punch a hole through that of like, okay, did you, did you talk about like this meeting that you were coming to, did you guys like make a decision on that together?
Well, no. Like I just saw it online and I like booked it in. Okay, so like you don't make all of your decisions together. So like, what about this decision? Is it that makes this a little bit different? And then they'll probably say, well, it's the money. And so now we have the real objection is that it's actually a money objection. It's not a , a partner objection.
Now I will share that there was somebody in inside our mentorship group that had two partner objections last week. She had posted about it in the group and I'm usually, I'm not a fan of this, but she said, okay, you need to talk to your partner. Like why don't you just call them right now? And both of them called their partners from the gym and their partners are like, yeah, go ahead and go for it.
And when I took a step back and thought that through, I actually love that because we already know that when somebody leaves without making a decision, right, they haven't taken action to change the likelihood that you ever see or hear from that person again is very low.
So if you actually care, you're gonna stay in the pocket, be a little bit uncomfortable If you're not great at having these conversations and challenge them to make a decision today while they're with you, it's easier to be part of the conversation today than you just taking an order of like, yep , I'm signing up, or no, I never wanna talk to you again when they talk to you next Monday.
So I thought she did a really great job by like just pushing the envelope and saying, Hey, that's cool. I got a couple minutes, I can step out. Why don't you call your spouse right now so that you guys can make a decision together right now.
Simple enough. All right , I don't think we need to role play that one, but let's break down the key point there that many times when given a spousal objection, it's a smoke screen for another objection.
So you want to ask clarifying questions to see if you can tease out what the actual objection is in some circumstances, if it is a spousal objection or you keep getting the runaround to this is just how we make decisions and you feel comfortable, you ask that person to call their spouse while they're at the gym so they can make that decision there instead of doing another go around of trying to schedule getting them
come in and close to sale . Is that right?
Yeah. And John , there's a, there's a couple other ways, and I'll share this in the podcast 'cause I think that these are like valuable resources is asking a question of like, when you go away and have that conversation with your, with your partner, is there any reason that they wouldn't want you to get the support or insert whatever like problems that they need, like the accountability, the education and you know, the
guidance to solve x, y, z. You wanna ask, is there any reason that they wouldn't want you to get that? And they're probably gonna say, we'll know they're , they want me to do this. And so then you can kind of get into like, where is the objection?
And the other way , uh, that you can go about this and something that you want to be really careful of is you don't wanna ask, well, what do you think that they would say? Because now you're putting that person in a position where they have to like read the magic eight ball of like what they think their partner may or may not say .
So what you would ask is when you had conversations like this in the past , been some objections for your partner being on board with you starting a program like this. And then they're going to tell you like, this is what we've worked through in the past so that you have more information that you can either guide them because if they're adamant about like having that conversation, you can help with frameworks there.
But oftentimes let's say this is somebody that's , uh, trying to lose body fat and they've done like keto and they've done, you know, if it fits your macros, they might say, well I've done programs and I failed. That actually is a fear of yesterday. They're fearing that their partner is not gonna support them because they've failed at this. And so it comes back to them actually showing up and doing the work.
So those are some things , um, that will be helpful when you are going through , uh, when you're navigating like that partner objection. The other piece would be when you're going through this is asking if the, if the price was, let's just call it half, do you think that your partner or would you still need to talk to your partner? So like if it's a paid in full program, it's 1500 for, you know, a month.
If I said, you know, if this program was $500, would you still need to talk to your partner about it? And if they say no, it's a money objection. And so then you go into the money dig.
Got it. I think that is helpful for a lot of people listening here. So why do people hit you with the, I need to think about it . Objection in the first place?
Yeah, it becomes , it's because there's a lack of confidence. So it's either a lack of confidence in the plan that you've outlined for them today , uh, lack of confidence in the process that they're gonna have to take to accomplish the goal, or a lack of confidence that they're actually going to reach the goal, right? Like people ultimately are paying for a result in their problem being solved.
And so it's either something that you did in or that you lacked in the pitch or in discovery. You didn't challenge them with real questions. Rapport oftentimes people think gets built by talking about the , uh, the ball game or the weather or like a recent trip to a similar place. Um, but where it actually comes from is asking challenging questions that digs into why this is important to that person.
Because most people won't ask real questions when they find somebody that is sitting across from them that asks the real questions that makes them think and gets them like to emotionally open up. That is where rapport is actually built and that's where trust is established. Um , so that's, that part's really important. So
They hit you with the, I need to think about it. Objection. It is typically a lack of confidence in they think you cannot solve their problem with the thing that you pitched them basically, and they want to defer the decision or get out of the conversation, right?
Yeah , you got it.
So as the sales guy, what now you , you've botched the front end of the pitch or you've botched the discovery. How do we dig ourself outta this hole?
Yeah, so you're gonna do the same thing that you did with the partner objection. You're gonna go back and you're going to say, Hey, you know what, that's not a problem. Like you can take all the time in the world that you need to think about it. Now before you do, I just want to ask, in your opinion, do you believe that everything that we've gone through today can get you to X, Y, and Z?
So you're getting them to double down on this. If they say no, now you can have a real conversation about like why that is. If they say yes, you're gonna ask them why they're gonna give you the double tie down and then you're gonna say, hey, you know, before you go ahead and take some time to think about it, like what's coming up that makes you want to do that?
And then they might give you, because think about it generally speaking, is a smoke screen . So this is the opportunity for them to just open up and share that with you. Now if they don't, then you're going to have to kind of dig into this. So sometimes they might say, wait , yeah, you know, I just need to, I need to do some research on this.
Well, you know, you can take all the time in the world to research this. Um, you know, what are you looking for , uh, that's gonna help you make this decision? They could say like, I just need to see like some social proof.
Now you can also say, Hey, you could end up spending years researching this, but generally we already know in our heart what we want to do and it's okay for you to say no. So if I can challenge you to make a decision today, do you want to do this program or do you not want to do this program? And then you lay it out, it's a binary question where they can make a decision there.
So that's definitely one way that you can go about doing that.
And do you get no frequently when you ask them , Hey, is this, do you think this program is gonna get you to your goals? Do you , do you hear no a lot? I don't remember getting a lot of nos,
No. Generally speaking, it's not usually for fitness sales, it's going to be a lack of their confidence of showing up, doing the work and , and getting the outcome because they've done something in the past and they failed. And so that's why the pitch is so important of piecing together we're gonna do this, this, and this.
You don't have to say, because you failed at this in the past and you told me like you didn't get enough strength training at Orangetheory. You just have to listen and then you have to present it in a way that makes sense so that they can grab onto it, have that confidence so that when it's time to exchange money and move forward that they're ready.
So you're trying to reset you , you have to go two steps backwards in the conversation and then get back to the actual decision itself, is what I'm hearing. Is that right?
For sure. Yep .
So you'd hit it with the, I gave you, I need to think about it. And you would say something along the lines of, do you believe the program is gonna get you to the goal that we set out in the discovery phase? They're gonna say yes most likely. And then what are the exact words you you'd go , you'd do from there?
Well, I mean there's, depending on where they're at. So if they said , uh, yeah, you know, I just like, I always take 24 hours to think, think something through, then I would challenge them to make a decision of like, alright John , so you always take 24 hours to, to make a decision.
You're saying now you shared with me, me that you've been thinking about this for the last nine months and since you've been out of your routine, since you relocated down to to Questa , do you think that your decision making process is part of the reason why you're in this position that you're at today?
They'll probably say something along the lines of, yes, I know I've been needing to do something for a little while now and I just wanna make sure that I'm doing the right thing because I've been burnt from stuff like this before.
Okay. And and when you've, when you say that you've been burnt , like what, what exactly do you mean by that? Just
Been promised a lot of things in conversations like this that haven't panned out .
Okay. In those programs that you did proceed with, did other people have success in those programs?
No, not really. Well, maybe some of them I'm not, I'm not sure. Right. It's, it's an orange theory class, so it's a little less of a conversation about what my goals are and more along the lines of do you like the workout, yes or no.
Okay, understood. And and why do you think that you didn't have the success that you were looking for in that process?
I just got bored of the workouts. I didn't feel like anyone was checking up on me.
Okay. And so when you got bored and you know, people weren't checking in on you, did that lead to you being less consistent? Yeah,
I fell off the wagon for sure.
Okay. So it , I mean, if we're having a real conversation, do you think that that's actually why you didn't, you know, reach your goal?
It's definitely a , a big part of it, yeah.
Okay. And so the consistency that I outlined in this plan that we're gonna do, you know, that we're gonna lead you through, do you think that these are the pillars that are going to be in place that will actually make sure that you are consistent this time around? Because it seems like that was the missing piece of, of the recipe last time.
It definitely sounds a lot more promising than what I was doing before. Yeah.
Okay. So John , you know, you said that you want to take time to think this through, you know, you're gonna go out and , and you're gonna research us on, on Google and you're gonna either hold on to like all of the five star reviews or you're gonna be looking for like the, the one like two star review and you're gonna make your decision on like what you're actually looking for.
So are you looking for a reason to do the program or not to do the program? Right now
I'm looking for validation that this is gonna work for me if I make the investment that I'm gonna get where I need to go. Okay.
And you know, when you first came in, you saw our wall of testimonials, was there something missing from the success that, you know, those hundreds of people , uh, that have worked with us over the last seven years, was there something missing in that to give you that confidence that you can be up on that wall like them ?
Um , no, I definitely, if I could turn out like , uh, Steve there who put on that five pounds of muscle that I'm just looking for , uh, that would be, that would be
Great. And John , at this point in the conversation, like I don't need you to know everything that I know and that my team knows of how we're gonna get you there.
I I'm gonna need you to trust us that, you know, over the last seven years we've done this with hundreds of clients and that as long as you meet us in the middle and show up and do the work that we're going to give you, that you can be with Steve and , and have the five to maybe 10 pounds of muscle if we get you on some TRT. So what do you want to do in this moment?
Are you ready to shake hands and move forward so we can get you to where you want to be?
TRT There's a secret menu. I didn't know about that.
Yeah, that's a , well , we only talk about that .
All right . And that's what I , that's what I need to get biceps like you. Okay , cool. Let's move forward with that then. Cool. So we went two steps backwards, we built the confidence and then we got to the actual pitch itself. And then it's not gonna work every time, but it's definitely gonna work more times than if you just say, okay, Steve, let's book a follow up next, whatever, and let 'em walk out the door.
Yeah, you're never seeing Steve again. And it's really important that we push people and it's not because we want to be sleazy salespeople, it's because we actually care.
And if you had a real conversation in discovery, you're establishing the base of, I care about you as a human, even though I don't really know you, but you trusted me enough to book time to either meet on Zoom or to meet in person , to have a conversation about something that's very intimate and private in your life, which is your health.
And so I, my responsibility as a professional within this industry is to help you make a decision to get the outcome when a doctor prescribes medication, when we have an issue, people don't say, yeah, doc, I I need to think about filling the script. No, they run to their local pharmacy and they get it filled as quickly as possible because that's what the doctor said.
Well, the doctor established their credibility through their credentials that's on the wall behind them. We do that in the gym with social proof, with, it's basically all of our marketing efforts and then like also branding inside of our sales room, right?
And so we need to have that credibility and so when we say, Hey, this is the right thing for you, the think about it wouldn't be a thing if this was the doctor's office. So you have to build that confidence back to again, plan , process and then ultimately the results, which is what they're paying for. They're not paying for your time, they're paying for the outcome that they said that they wanted.
So it's your responsibility to push them to a yes or no. Because if they say, I need to think about it, and they are afraid to tell you no, it's okay to tell 'em , Hey, like I'm an adult, you're not gonna hurt my feelings. You can tell me no if this is something that you're out on, it would actually save us time if you're not interested , um, to, to focus on the people that actually do want our help.
But you get one shot to change this person's life, so you have to push them and you will feel better about it if you did.
One thing worth noting here is throughout all of these objections, one of the things that you're doing well is you are keeping control of the call , uh, the sales process. A lot of times with a novice sales rep or a gym owner who feels uncomfortable with sales, the tendency will be to let the prospect take the reins and run the conversation.
Which if you think about that in terms of like a training session, you , you probably wouldn't let that happen on the training floor where if you're doing some type of upper body and the client's like, I just wanna do core exercises every day , I need to get abs. So we're only gonna do core exercises here.
You probably wouldn't allow that to happen as a a trainer, you would , you would say, Hey, this is my area of expertise, and by taking this type of control and showing this confidence in the sales conversation, a lot of that parlays onto the training floor, especially if you are selling specialized small group coaching packages with which most people listening to this podcast will be.
So what are some tips you have for the gym or listening on how to keep control throughout the entire sales conversation?
Yeah, I mean, when you're driving your car and you have a passenger, do you like ever let them reach across and, and grab the steering wheel when you're driving? No. Like you push their hand off and say, Hey, like, I'm in control here. Like, let me, let me drive. I'm taking us to the destination like we're gonna get there safely. And so you just can't allow it to happen.
Uh, so you have to be confident that you know where it's going. So if you don't have a process for your sales cycle, when you get somebody face to face with you, you need to make sure that that's outlined and that you have practiced that.
So like get on with , uh, you know, your mom or a friend and you need to role play with non-live rounds because once you go live, like this is a real person that you can change their quality of life if you can help them see that this, that the program that you have will get them what they want. So you have to have practice.
Keep in mind the people that you're having this conversation with, they only have this like once or twice. You're gonna have this hundreds if not thousands of times. So you should be much better at leading this conversation. And if, you know, I have to find the problem, I have to understand the goal, I need to build cost of inaction, you know, urgency through cost of an action .
And , um, and then I need to make sure that they take ownership, that they understand that they're the hero of the story. Once you have those things, now I know I can go into the pitch, I'm gonna customize the pitch for what they need, and then I feel confident handling the objections so I can get to a yes or no today.
That is my job within the, you know, 30, 45 or an hour minutes that you have with them to get this person moving forward in their, their health and fitness journey. Like that is the goal. And when you know that this is the process, it's very easy to follow the process.
You spoke earlier about the inherent fear of being the sleazy sales guy. You don't come from a sales background and you had that fear and you went from being okay to someone who's one of the best at sales in the two brain network. How did that happen? What did you do to get to that point? If you are talking to yourself five years ago , uh, what advice would you give that person?
Yeah, I didn't understand that selling is actually helping. Um, you know, Cooper wrote a book called Help First , and it's a book about sales. And so once I wrap my mind around like, okay, this person doesn't make a decision today, it's gonna be really hard for me to ever have another conversation with them .
And usually it's gonna be like six to 12 months down the road and they're gonna say, Hey, I regret not doing it this the first time.
The pain that, that caused me of like, oh, it was because I was not good at my job and I didn't help them make the right decision and like, push through their fear or push through the, the money objection or, you know, whatever it was the logistics objection that I didn't know how to handle. I was like, I need to advance my skills as a professional both for sales and in my gyms.
Um, and so I invested in sales mentorship because I, I spent a lot of my day helping people make decisions. And that's what I tell people when they're like, Hey, you know, I don't wanna be sold to. It's like, that's fine. I'm, I'm not gonna sell to you. I'm gonna offer you help. It's your problem, it's my solution, it's your decision. You get to decide what happens here.
But my job is to help you make a decision today.
So Matt credits mentorship with a lot of , uh, his success in the sales process. If you are someone who's struggling with this , uh, get yourself a two brain mentor. We have scripts, we have ways to handle objections, we work through some of these conversations. There are people always looking to role play the sales conversation within the two brainin groups.
So head over to two brainin business.com and you can book a call with , uh, maybe Matt or someone else on the team. If you need something a little more immediate, head over to jim owners united.com. It is our free Facebook group for gym owners. Matt is in there. I'm in there. People ask sales questions all the time.
We're happy to jump in and give you our 2 cents, but nothing replaces getting reps and nothing replaces getting mentorship and coaching. Again. Matt, thanks for making the time for doing this. If someone wants to go find you on the internet, where is the best place to find you?
Yeah, find me on Instagram at Tempe training, T-E-M-B-Y training. That's probably the best spot to follow on now, John , if we can, can we give the the listeners a bonus if they've listened this far?
Yeah, let's do it.
Okay. So I wanted to circle back to something that we talked about in partner because this is often , uh, something that will come up. So this is like kind of a word track that you can use if somebody is like, adamant, yeah, I gotta gotta talk to my partner. So what I would say to that person is, okay, so when you go and have that conversation to your partner, they're gonna probably ask what the price is , right?
Yeah, of course. Okay. And so the only data point that they know about this entire process is how much it costs, and they don't understand how it's gonna solve the problems that you have. Is it really fair for you to take all of this information back to your partner and to put the responsibility on them to make a decision based on just the price? And then that person typically says, no, you're right.
That wouldn't be fair. And it's like they don't have full context. So I'll say, okay, so based on that, do you really need to talk to your partner about this? Or is there something else that's causing a lack of certainty of this being something that you're ready to move forward with right now? So that's the bonus tip because you guys listen to the end, always listen to the end of the podcast.
And Matt does, he, he actually listens to the end of every podcast, which is , uh, you , you're one of the few and we appreciate that about you, Matt. That is it. We're gonna call it for this week's episode of Run a Profitable Gym. If you enjoy this, subscribe for more content to grow your business, and like I said, head over to gym owners united.com.
Pop in there, we're always there to help you answer any questions you have about running a profitable gym. I'm John Franklin signing off. We will see you next week, Jim. Owners .