The Bengals' Game Plan: A Candid Discussion with Co-Host and Guest

Music. And we are back for another episode of the Rule the Jungle podcast.

I am your host, Anthony Anderson. I have my co-host, Will, coming. He's running a little bit behind, but we actually have a guest tonight. I mean, for today's show, because at the time of the recording, it's a little after 530. So the guest today, while we're waiting on my guy, Will, to show up, I think you all know who he is. He is one of the co-hosts, the Talking Football with Bengal Gym and Friends YouTube and Podcast show, one Mr.

Tom Justin. Well, Tom, what's going on, sir? Nothing too special, just enjoying a cool summer evening and hoping for good news from our favorite team.

Oh, of course. so so far i in your opinion because we'll start off obviously i know there's there's been a lot of expectations put on us on the team and some and there's some rightfully so because especially when our quarterback stands up and says that things like i want t higgins on this team next year and really went to pounding the table to make sure that he got that to happen.

And there's some people have been a little bit depressed, a little bit disappointed, I would say more or less with free agency so far feeling like more should have been done. Where are you at with it, Tom? Overall, you know, I, I would have liked to have seen more action. I would have liked to seen the guard position addressed because everything else we do does not matter. If Joe Burrow is hurt, Joe Burrow is hit, Joe Burrow is harassed. He deserves a clean pocket to do his thing.

We've been watching him for four years in a messy pocket get the job done at a Hall of Fame rate. Let's do it like a Super Bowl winner would do it, and let's go get the guards. But it's not over yet. You know, I'm not running around with my hair on fire, you know, jumping off the crew tower and all that kind of stuff like some. But, you know, I am disappointed. I made the remark. To somebody that they're not, you know, when you win the Super Bowl,

everybody tries to imitate you, which is the Eagles being a prime example. Right. And you look at the Eagles, though, and it isn't just the quarterback. I'll do respect to the Super Bowl champion, Jalen Hurts. We've got a better quarterback. So, you know, they've got fantastic lines. They've got an excellent coach. I think we have a coach capable of winning the Super Bowl. And he's proven that he came a quarter of a second away from doing it the time he led the team there.

But they also everybody's also talking about Howie Roseman and to get to your team to win the Super Bowl. You have to have a Super Bowl effort and Super Bowl talent from every part of your organization. And you have to you know, the Bengals have to wonder a little bit. They got to look at themselves in the mirror down the paint corner. You know, hey, are we giving that Super Bowl?

Are we performing our jobs in the front office the way Joe Burrow, Jamar Chase, Orlando Brown, the way they are performing their jobs on the field? And I think they are trying. I think a lot of things can be turned around very quickly, starting with perception.

But right now, that answer is no. No, I can understand. And I also think, for instance, for me, I'm with you on that because for me, I grew up in this city, played high school football in this city.

Growing up Growing up loving the game of football One of the first things that you learn, Your team only goes as far as your trenches Trenches will allow your team to go So if your defensive line can't stop the run And cause havoc in the pass rush, Or your offensive line can't hold on to their blocks And be able to establish the run Or give your quarterback time to throw it's basically pointless a lot of your main pressure because in the course of last year a lot of the pressure when

we would on our offensive line mainly did come from the in the middle of come from the middle of the offensive line obviously even though kappa when we signed him he was actually probably our best signing one of our best signings and he was a stellar right tack offensive guard, I mean. Coming from Tampa and played with Tom Brady that just 2022, I'm with you because you and I have talked off record that, Had Kappa never gotten hurt, would we have been talking in a different situation?

Hey, would we maybe be heading back to our second Super Bowl? Or would we possibly be talking a little bit of a different situation of maybe the fact that we weren't Super Bowl champions? But I think going into this, with the fact that we cut Kappa. Cornell Volson, I don't want to say he's a failed experiment. I know when he got drafted, he came out as a tackle, or am I mistaken? He played tackle. He played both positions in college, but I believe his senior year he played tackle.

I would say for me and again I would go ahead if it were me and what I would want to see don't get me wrong I think position versatility can be important, but if you have a if you keep finding guys that maybe that it's not working out, like I think what I would like to see going into this if we can address the guard position, because I know from, I think you had sent me a text earlier saying, because everybody's on the Tevin Jenkins train hoping that he'll sign with the

Bengals, but he's on his way to Seattle Monday to visit with them, that if we can at least address the guard position, I would like to see maybe as a last-ditched effort, and what are your thoughts on it? Instead of completely giving up on Cordell Vols, maybe try moving him out and let him be a backup tackle, backup swing tackle, or just a backup tackle, a left or right tackle in general. I worry about him still getting pushed around out on the edge.

I think he plays hard. I think he plays smart. I think he's a good guy, and he has had some good games. But, you know, his ultimate kryptonite is Pittsburgh, and you've still got to play them twice a year. I mean, Cameron Hayward, hey, he's a Hall of Famer. Cam Hayward's abused him whenever we went up against him. He's completely abused him. He has completely – well, he's taken over the game because of him.

And, you know, as you well know, the worst pressure a quarterback can get is that pressure up the middle. And when you have Cordell struggling, as he did, and eventually getting benched last year for Cody Ford, and you got Alex Kappa, who, you know, like you said, when he came here, the guy is tough. The guy is smart. I believe he played hard while he was here.

But I think the injuries mounted up. You know, his second year here, first three or four games that year, he was our highest ranked offensive lineman every week. And I think the nagging injuries just kind of caught up with him. I mean, it's very hard to win the Triple Crown as an offensive lineman. Give up the most sacks, give up the most hits, and give up the most pressures. That's hard to do.

Yeah. As of right now, we are actually joined by my co-host, the Learning Tree himself, one Will Appleton. What's going on, sir? Well, you can add a couple of things to that. Learning Tree's father, you know, grocer. Red-a-zine fan. Tom, I know. Good to talk to you. Good to talk to you. My God, I just mentioned this. I just mentioned this, Anthony, not too long ago. You know, you don't see somebody for a while, you know, talk to them for a while.

It is good, even though, you know, I know Tom and just like myself and Anthony and Tyler and then the Bengals and Bruce crew. And, you know, we all we all hear the fans. We hear the fans just like same old, you know, same old jump off the, you know, jump off the ship. Right. I need to stop. If they're just jump off, just like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe it. You know, we're talking to Anthony Selza team. I'm like, yeah, we have some business to do with our own free agents, right?

Because I mentioned probably, this is definitely off the record a couple times to Anthony. I'm like, look, last year we didn't quite take care of all our own free agents, right? So this one year, this is this year. That just made it doubly difficult. You know, now we've got all three of them up. You know, not free agency, not actually free agents, but up for extensions.

Huge ones at that So I understand Folks want to Every lineman. That's fine But they're really good teams They do re-sign our guys They re-sign our guys There are guys out there That most definitely are better Than what we had and what we have And I think there are still A few guys out there That can contribute to giving you Super Bowl line. While everybody's screaming for him to sell the team, and by the way, that family will never sell the team. Never, never, never.

An apocalypse, and the Brown-Blackburn family will still own the team. And why? They have, you know, it's been a weakness, and when you have Joe Burrow, you want to keep him safe, and Anthony Howard's talking that nothing else matters if Joe's hurt and then on top of being hurt, let's not get him hit. Let's not get in a hurry. Let's get him plenty of time. But they have, you've got to look at it, they have invested a lot of money on the offensive line, a guard and a center

and a tackle in Orlando Brown. In fact, I hope, Later this summer, they talked to Orlando about an extension. Yes, but they've invested draft picks. Number one, right tackle, who I think if he's healthy, is going to end up a star in this league. Number two, that blew up from the get-go. Despite the fact he was a low guy, I didn't like to pick that day. Just today, I was reading people that when we picked Jackson Carman,

this guy was on the board. When we picked Jackson Carman, that guy was on the board. My guy that nobody seems to mention was Creed Humphrey was still on the board. Oh, God, don't remind me. And I was screaming for him. But they've invested draft picks. They've invested free agents. They changed coaches to bring back a coach that was very successful and very popular here. They have given that group attention, and I think they will in the next week.

Like, it just, you know, we all wanted it to be done. I thought it would be done in the first day or so. I thought maybe after at least two or three, myself. I was like, you know, maybe I was just too anxious for something that I know was going to get done. And the other thing about Jenkins is, and none of us know this, when he came out of Oklahoma State, he had back issues. After his rookie year in Chicago, he had to have back surgery.

So if a team before they say, this is what we think we want to owe you, if you can give us a clean bill of health, I don't think it's wrong for a team to insist a guy come in and take a physical with their doctors. Now the fact he's going to Seattle Monday to visit the facility and probably do just that. I mean, you don't fly all the way to Seattle, you know, take a friendly physical and eat some salmon.

In other words, in other words, you're kind of thinking, You're kind of looking where I'm thinking, Tom, that if everything goes, they're going to obviously do the physical. Everything goes according to plan. If the physical, everything comes back and is good. They probably already maybe agreed on something, and they're just waiting for the physical to come back. Yeah, I do think that way. And the draft doesn't have surefire answers at guard this year.

They may have guys you can develop in a year or so, but there are still a couple of guys out there. I hope this weekend, by the time we go on Sunday night at 8, I hope we're talking about either two wide receivers that are on the verge of being signed and a couple of guards that are already in the fold. Because if I'm the Bengals, and you have to figure on this, Jenkins' agent is not the same agent Trey Hendrickson has.

I mean, he's got more than two teams bidding for his guy after the hot spot of free agency. He's got him on a plane in Seattle, and he's waiting until Monday so all the other teams can say, well, off of this, don't let him get on that plane. So... We'll see. But, yeah, I think there are alternatives. The Dalton Risners of the world. Brandon Sheriff, sorry. I'd be on the phone with him. And I think the last two years, if I'm correct, because I'm on the Dalton Risner train myself.

Truthfully, I think what they need to – because it seems like with Dalton Risner, it seems like he almost always, they either pick him up – I think the Vikings picked him up like right before camp were right during camp. Yeah, I think it was after a couple injuries that they went after him. And he had a very much, he was above average, definitely above average. And Sheriff is still elite as a pass blocker.

I don't know if his run blocking is quite there, but those guys would more than fit the bill. Ted Karras had his best year as a pass protector last year, which makes the other guys look even worse. That played notes during it. Right. You know, we can put it together. It's just they really got to thread the needle at this point and sign the two receivers. And I think they've got a replacement as the days go by. Looks like they got a replacement for Trey Hendricks on a defensive end.

So, you know, it's a long way down. When you say a replacement for Trey Hendrickson, is he on the verge of being traded? Did some news come out recently? No, I think the replacement for Trey Hendrickson is going to be Trey Hendrickson. Oh, yeah.

Thinking like, oh, did something change? Yeah. I know it seemed like there was talks that something might have been getting ready to happen and then suddenly it just dried up. Everything just dried up because everybody went after all the pass rushers and. Remember when the first report was, oh, there are six or eight teams that want to give up $30 million for him. And how can the Bengals? A first-rounder is really not that much. No. And a very realistic expectation and not too much to want.

Now, I've heard the Bengals wanted more than a one. I know there was one out there supposedly that offered a two this year and then like a five next year that went to a four if he played a certain percentage of the snaps and went to a three if he had ten or more snaps you know that's getting pretty close but not there and you know this team when we lose a star they may have a plan, but it's not a sure fire plan for somebody to step in and succeed them.

So I have no problem with him coming back, you know, do this, give him another, give him a bonus for this year. This is the last year of his contract. Give him a bonus for this year. Make him happy. Hey, you know, you went out, you proved yourself. Do this. Come to camp. Be on time. Come to mini camp. Do the off-season workouts. And play your ass off again, and here's a handshake. We won't franchise you.

You know, I have no problem with him coming in playing pissed off, wanting to get a big contract. But I kind of get the feeling. I think his heart truly, he wants to be here is the feeling I get. But I think, where are you both at? I think the Blackburns and Brown family, because I've heard different things about, I know Mike Brown, they say he's still involved, but his percentage of how much he's involved has been pulled back a lot.

But I think with him, he's still involved, but I think more of the day-to-day decisions are made by Cody and Troy. But Mike has final say. Where are you at on that, Tom? I think that's true, but I think if Mike has done that, trust me, the decision was Mike's, that he thought that was a good idea. I mean, we got to that point with Paul Brown and Mike. You know, at some point, Paul retired as a coach, and then, you know, four or five years later.

Sort of let go of many of the operations of the franchise. Mike was doing all the contracts. Mike was handling all the business, and Paul really just focused on football matters. I think Mike, when it comes to the draft, and I know Mike used to absolutely live for the draft and probably still does, I think he's involved in the selection of the first-round pick, maybe not as much with the rest, but he's there every day. They still say he's one of the first ones in the parking lot.

If you get there at 730, his car is there, and he's been there. The hood is cool, not hot. He puts in a full day. He goes to every practice. I know after games, he still, when he's able, walks around the field after a game when they're turning off the lights at Pacor. I think he's still involved. I think the communication is good there. But, yeah, it's still Mike's team. But Katie, I don't think there's any decision that's made that Katie is not involved in or respected.

I've seen all the stuff on social media this week. And, hey, I'm very anxious too. But let's give her, if we can give her another three or four days and let's see what happens with the big three. And let's see how the guard situation. Ultimately more so than those contracts, how the guards are handled is going to be how this next season goes. We can't rely on the draft for good guards next year to protect Joe Burrow. Like solely. I don't want that to be the sole.

I'm with you both on that. Because the one thing if I thought if all the guards were, if there were no decent guards on the, in free agency, I'd be a little more concerned, but the fact that you've still got the likes of Mekhi Becton. Dalton Reisner, Brandon Sheriff, like, I'm like, do I want them to just kind of just sit there and just wait, wait it out?

Maybe not so much. I'd like to see them at least make a move, but I'm also at the same time, I'm like, okay, Let's not make too hasty of a decision, because I think right now, I think the big reason why you haven't seen them make a lot of huge moves is because they're so focused on trying to make sure they get these contracts done with T and Jamar.

And I do get the feeling, I think that's where primarily the biggest focus is with the fact that the biggest amount of focus has been, which is probably why they've been so quiet. And you're hearing the national media go and say that basically we're completely incompetent.

And another thing, you know, you're hearing crackpots like Ross Tucker go and say that the front office is completely incompetent, Do decisions that leave me scratching my head On occasion It's a sports team When is there ever not something That leaves you scratching your head Like what the hell was that. My question is this though If we get to the extension with Jamar And get T signed Long term Would it be 3-4 Whatever it might be, Whatever we do, it's going to be a bonus for me.

I think we win free agency, in my view. We win free agency because no one would have done anything more than what we just did. We got the number one free agent supposedly back. That helped. He was the number one free agent all the offseason. Well, guess what? He ain't a free agent no more. He ain't not going anywhere. So that's one. And his cap hit will go back. I don't know how much. The guy that would know that would be a friend of the show, one Mr. Jesse James Taylor.

Jesse James Taylor was on Bingo and Bruce yesterday. I watched him. Yeah. So, yeah, he's the one that would kind of have a better idea. But I think what I would like to see is once they get this done, let's go ahead and get our two guards. Let's get ready for the draft Because Like for instance for me When it comes to the draft I'm specifically on the Walter Nolan train All the way Yeah.

But with how things are currently, who of the guards remaining in free agency are you both eyeing that you would think would be great in stripes? Go ahead, Will. Well, the whole thing with Vecta is if he wasn't such a hit or miss at right tackle, right? But he was. I watched him play. He was okay. He just looked better at guard with Lane Johnson next to him, which I would have been pretty good at guard with Lane Johnson next to me. I'm just saying.

So we probably don't go back to the game. I would say no. Beckton would have been. You know, okay, he could have came and hit the right guard over Kappa. Who cares? Doesn't matter. You know, with the Philadelphia, there was only one spot. There was only one spot. And center was someone out there, but I'm like, I don't see that. There's only one job open in Philadelphia. He went, and he started, and he bought it this time. And now, look, now he's on this board for guards a year later.

And the Super Bowl's happy, which he wouldn't have been necessarily.

He didn't get someone else to play tackle. So, I mean, if I'm not pro, he's with, like, the team, the age thing, the, you know, the fit. Yeah. I think I know where you're going with this. As I'm looking, if Jenkins is out, right, he's off to Seattle. Yes. Jenkins wound up in on this list, but I think he's gone. Yeah, at least it's looking. Risner is close, but I think right now Will Hernandez is on this list. He's on my list.

And he plays red guard. And he plays red guard. And he plays red guard. I like, you know, I would sign and plug Sheriff in at right guard and Risner in at left guard, and I think that's a marked upgrade from what you had. My only question with Hernandez is, you know, he's strong, but how is he as a pass protector?

Now, I mean, we need guys that can run block for a change, but if you can't protect number nine, you know, I don't even want you landing at the Gregor Cincinnati Airport we're located in northern Kentucky. I mean, you know, so that would be my only... I like Hernandez. I liked him coming out in the draft. You know, boy, you know what? Had we had him in 21 the year he came out, we'd have won the Super Bowl. I do know that.

Well, he's been in a lot of competition in Arizona. They throw a ball off a lot. I kid them a lot and say, you know what? If you got to land a ball with Connor, you know, You would have to have these super tall tacos in guard, which is crazy. Murray being so short. The other position. I had a guy. I tried to call him. Didn't get it, but we messaged back and forth. And he was responding, I guess, to something I said on the show last week. And he told me, he said, keep this in mind.

He said, the Bengals have never been good on that. But you've got a new mentality there on the offensive line. Just don't focus on guards for the draft because I don't think it's a good draft for guards. There are some guys I like, but I don't think it's a very good draft for guards. And he said, look at the centers, too. He said, you know, a lot of teams subscribe and coaches subscribe to the theory is you want a guy to play center. You don't do it as a rookie.

You bring him in, you play him for a year at guard and then transition him. And he said there are several centers, and he said they won't come off the board until mid to late second round, that you can pull in right away guard, and play at center next year because Karis is in his last year of his contract. Which kind of leads me to my Tristan Talon-Castillo. He also played for Arizona, ironically, who can play center and guard.

If you need versatility, you know, at one position group, it's the offensive line. Yeah. You know, Cody Ford was not, I remember I was on business driving back, listening to Sirius Radio when the Bengals signed Cody Ford and then was listening to the NFL channel on Sirius. And they said, yeah, you know, he's a guy. And he was. He'd been a little bit of a disappointment during his career.

But you know what? he's coming here and why has he stuck around and now in the year three, it's because he can play two, three spots. I mean, my God, he played left tackle one game last year. No, I didn't think Anthony Munoz was out there, but man, I could tell he was playing his ass off, doing everything he could.

And if you can play left tackle, just fill in for a game, and you can start at guard and you can start at right guard, you know I'm all for that did he play right tackle one game last year when Mims was hurt probably I'm sure he did I'm not sure he did, if I'm not mistaken he played I think I might have seen him at every spot except center. I'm not mistaken he played every spot except center he did you talking about Cody Ford yeah he did So, you know, versatility matters.

I'm not as big on that in the defensive backfield because I don't think, and the Bengals have tried to force feed this before.

I don't think as a rule, safeties can play corner. Corners can play safety, but I don't think safeties can play corners. And for everybody saying Dax Hill, Dax Hill, well, Dax Hill, they drafted him as a safety. but Dax Hill was a nickel corner at Michigan. That's where he became a star playing the nickel at Michigan, which I have begged everybody I can possibly beg who would legitimately be able to answer the question, and that is flipping to the other side of the ball.

Is Dax – everything I hear is that he's doing really well and he's going to come back healthy. Is Dax going to be on the outside or is Dax the nickel? If it were me I'd play him at nickel because that's that was one of the things I've gone back and looked at his film from Michigan and honestly that's where as athletic as he is a guy like him and I think also too that's largely why they haven't tried to go after Mike Hilton.

Because Mike as much as you like him you don't really want to put him in man-to-man situations. God love him. He's lost his time. He's lost his time. Yeah, so that's where I'm at, is that as much as you like him, if you brought him back, you bring him in as a backup. Then, like, God forbid anybody got hurt, then, hey, you'd have him there. But, yeah, I think with Mike, I think with Dax, if you move him inside, who do you play on the outside?

Do you play Fig Newton on the outside and have him play the other outside corner? Or do you move DJ Turner and have him play the other opposite outside corner of Cam Taylor Britt? Well, that was a position battle last season. That's internal. They did battle for that very spot. That's one. But I thought ultimately, ultimately I thought we lost. We won, but we lost because we missed the ball. DJ's problem, his rookie year, I thought was, you know, he did.

I mean, he was a pure rookie, and he did very well until December. I really thought he hit that rookie wall. Yeah. And something was wrong, you know, and then he had the disastrous game at Pittsburgh. And then last year, you know, he struggled. Dax took over, won the cornerback job.

But then he came back, and, you know, I thought it was odd today that Osi, during his press conference mentioned that the defense started playing with confidence and really understood the defense that last five weeks. And that was right about the time I can remember Lapham talking about even right before then. It's not working. And when it doesn't work, you've got to simplify things. It took 12 weeks to start simplifying things.

We'll go from there. But I'll be interested to see. you know the other thing is, I'm here and they're going to go as opposed to a base 42 that they're going to go back to a traditional 43. Good. But correct me if I'm wrong. This goes to both of you. Because both of y'all, when it comes to Bengals history, you're two of the people that I know that, like, hey, if there's anything to question pertaining to Bengals history, typically y'all are the people to know.

In the entire history of the Bengals franchise, mostly, correct me if I'm wrong, at least up to this point, mostly what they've ran with the various defensive coordinators that they've had has been the ran a 4-3 defense. I think a lot of what Lou ran is some newer stuff.

I think even Dick LeBeau, when he was the defensive coordinator, both times the defensive coordinator and head coach, he ran a 4-3 no, not when he came back we sat first, so he did do a 3-4 when he came back defensive coordinator hey coach if we would have taken Michael Ballware that would have helped, we took the other kid, Wilson I'm like, God, I don't want to talk about, we didn't have the path for us Renato had a really good double digit sack here when his contract was on the line.

Yeah, definitely did. No, when Forrest Gregg came in in 80. They instituted a 3-4, and pretty much had that until Dick left after the 91 season. 91, yeah. And Dick was experimenting with the zone blitz then. Both times here, he just never had the personnel to make it work. Good Owens, he'll carry you. I'd like to mention Joe Kelly as a linebacker. You know what? Joe Kelly would thrive in today's NFL. Yes, he would. My God. Yes, he would.

Yes, he would. He is definitely before his time. My God. We wouldn't be able to pay him. We wouldn't be able to pay Joe Kelly. But that's, you know, they're going to need, you know, they're a little pigeonholed on defense because we need pass rushers. That's even if Trey comes back. We need speedy, fast, athletic linebackers.

So in your and you guys's opinion and i i want to throw this out there because i know i something tells me i think they're going to look at linebackers in the draft one guy that particularly sticks out i want to get you guys's thoughts and then you guys tell me who you yeah who you think as far as linebacker that might be a fit for in the draft for for the bangles jack kaiser seems to be like the one that really sticks out.

And it's not even so much just because of his route to Al Golden, but just the, yeah, I think it's just the overall athletic build. And just, he reminds me, yeah, he reminds me a lot of, a lot in some similar ways to Logan Wilson. Yeah, he's a leader. He's got great instincts. He would know the defense, but I don't know if he's a guy you hook everything to.

I think if something doesn't change, they'll be looking for linebackers in day two because they're going to need those athletic, fast players. So in other words, you're saying, I take it you're saying Kaiser is a day three pick, probably? For them, I don't think, you know, they'll take the best guy available each round. I think the way the draft boards are looking up, they will, you know, it'll depend who's there on 17. Because anybody you like in February and March isn't left for you in April.

It's you know very rare some of their goodbye to my dream of getting drafted you know something about him because i like him quite a bit and he you know there was some rumblings that well you know he's got problems with the coaching staff well, evidently he and a couple other guys that got raps for bad attitudes and stuff those were nil disputes with the football department at their schools, and I think Walter was one of those. And you're going to see more and more of those.

You're watching guys quit the team halfway through the season because they're not getting their NIL money they were promised. But the other thing that was interesting about that is, and I don't know if the Bengals knew something about it, and the Bengals are very big on who they meet with. They did not meet with him at the Combine. Oh, Walter Nola? At all. Really? Somebody told me that, and then I saw on a list where they did.

I believe you, but I thought I had heard somebody say that they had met with him, but I believe you. I saw him on a list, and then somebody else who was there just about every day said, well, you know, the Bengals didn't even bother meeting with him. And I said, well, maybe informally, because you can meet with them informally too. I think you have to list it. But they didn't want that formal 15-minute sit at me.

I always like this story Jim Lippincott told us, which is kind of because the Bengals are pretty much sticklers for the rules about things, but they were in doing their 15-minute meeting with a guy, and whatever, I don't know if there's a bell or a signal or something goes off to say, you know, your time's up. And Mike Brown must have looked at whoever was near the door or something and he said, turn that thing off. We're not done with this young man yet.

That's not about right Yeah, that's not about right So, but yeah, I don't know, I don't know how hot and bothered they are Personally, you know, about Walter I don't know if they've heard anything I do know they want A difference maker In that front seven They want somebody else Who can get to the quarterback.

Like I know for me He's one that sticks out the most the most to me, but I also could see with the whole stuff with Trent Hendrickson, then maybe going and making a pass at trying to get, say, the likes of maybe a Shamar Stewart or somebody like that.

Although, the only concern I would have with Shamar Stewart, I've talked to Dale from Bengals and Brews, who's a good friend of ours, that from what he's told me and that some of the tape I've looked at, he seems to be kind of a developmental, more of a guy you're going to need to put a little more development into. Where are you on that, Tom? You swear I am when I hear a defensive lineman tagged with that. I'm old, and I knew the guy was a very good friend. He meant a lot to me.

We spent a lot of time together, watched a lot of Bengals football together, talked a lot of Bengals football together. Do you remember the name Jerry Jones in this town? You guys are young now. No, I've heard the name. A friend of mine used to buy the drugstore books all the time. Jerry meant a lot to me. Jerry and I were pretty close. And I would pick up on a lot of things. Jerry was in the draft room with the Bengals for.

Probably close to a decade. Really? After the first round pick was decided because Jerry had media obligations, he would go in and sit with them the rest of the draft. And he would always say this, and it's probably because even though he was, quote, impartial, Jerry always wanted the Bengals to win. He was a lifetime Cincinnatian. But he always told me this, outside of quarterback, defensive end slash pass. Rusher, He has your highest bustability rate in every draft.

Every draft. He's not wrong by that statement. Yeah. He's not wrong at all by that statement. You know, that's why. And it's so easy to fall in love with these guys that, you know, you watch nothing but their highlight tape. And, man, look how quick he is. Man, look at him get to the quarterback. You know, man. But even if you're playing in the SEC and you blow by a left tackle and get a sack, is that left tackle ever going to smell the NFL? Is he NFL quality? You know, you don't know.

That's, you know, like a guy like Pierce from Tennessee. He's so enticing. You know, he definitely needs to, if he comes to town, he's going to need to eat some three ways and get it. So in that case, say we would get a guy like James Pierce Jr. or say Mike Green. Do you remember the 2009 Hard Knocks footage where Andre Smith showed up to talk, Mike talked to Mr. Brown? Is Mr. Brown going to be kind of a sandwich with him?

Or basically he called Andre he called Andre Smith basically a fan. He would, you know, even before Andre back in the days of Big Daddy.

There was a famous clip they played over and over in town when we drafted Kajana, which is another big Cincinnati what if story and the two of them pulled up at Spinney Field and got out and I think Big Daddy met him somewhere, met him at the airport and they hadn't eaten and they were starving and they went through a Wendy's and Big Daddy had him a couple of cheeseburgers and he can't as they got out of the car. And he looked at them like, you know, it was, you know, they were gold.

I mean, they were precious gold. It was like, you know, get away from me. I got to get into these cheeseburgers. Yeah, I don't think you'll see Katie calling anybody fat with the cameras around. Because I remember watching that footage. I only met Mike Brown one time. And it was just, it was, me and my dad happened to spot him at training camp. And we just said hello. And I was young. I didn't know who he was until my dad told me. And Mike's a savage. Mike doesn't.

But then again, that just comes from years. That's how it was. That's how they kept it back when Mike was coming up. They didn't hold back. Today is a different generation, but I was just sitting there, and I remember looking up. I found the footage on X and just happened to spot that, and the first thing I said was, good God. I said, I don't know if Mike would be received today. Well, you know what I mean? There are so many things that were different.

I read a clip, and I asked a couple when we either had a function. Or had them on the show, I've asked a couple of guys, but in the AFL Bengals in the late 60s, they're going into the 70s when they merged, how players, when they went to Wilmington, would look at their rookies and say, this is incredible. I can't believe how well we're treated.

The food is top-notch. it is, so good, it is so healthy it is what we never got in Denver San Diego, back then they called them the Boston Patriots the Bengals were the cutting edge and Paul Brown insisted on it fast forward a few years the Bengals are the end of all and of course today they're angry because there isn't a buffet line as the players leave every night.

You know there's something to be said about that too yeah they're making incredible money they can't get their own dinner but a lot of those guys that are rookies make it close to the league minimum it means something to be able to go out and grab a box and throw a couple of real chicken breasts in some vegetables and something to eat so you know you need that from both sides, they have their way of doing things I think that it has very slowly changed

I don't credit Katie completely for that, Katie and Troy I credit Elizabeth and Caroline, they get it and it's, I think it's going to be at a glacier pace, for a while in other words, eventually the girls, eventually they take it over well I don't know about take it over but maybe have a little bit more of a voice you know, Elizabeth, when she got out of college she worked in business on the west coast but then

everybody forgets she worked in New York for the National Football League and you know what she did? What did she do? She studied, helped the NFL craft and designed the rules and the formulas for the salary cap. Wow So where it's going to go and Katie has gotten, you know, Irvin used to rule, he's always like, you know Katie's in charge of a salary cap, and we are always a step ahead of the league as to where the cap's going to go. So, and, you know, Elizabeth, not that much different.

I think, you know, the girls came in and, you know, we didn't have a ring of honor. The girls thought it was a good idea. We've got a ring of honor. We've got a ruler of the jungle. You know, we've got a little bit of a funner atmosphere.

They understand the fans. I mean, they don't sit in a box. They sit in the top Paradeum with their friends, You know I remember going to the Opening game, opening home game In 2021 and yeah I saw I saw Elizabeth over I guess it was her friends With her friends all sitting there, Enjoying the game and I'm sitting there going And.

They're a very humble They're a humble family I know they get a They know they get a bad rap, everybody still says to this day that they're cheap, that they're cheap when it comes to the guarantees. Would I like to see them? And that's been my only gripe with the team as a whole. And I would, just like you, Tom, and Will, would like to see them at least be open to adjusting their contract structures.

You don't have to do it with everybody, but at least the stars, At least the guys that you know that you can't let leave the building. You know, it's not necessarily the right thing to do, but it's the way you have to do it. Because if 31 other teams are doing it that way, you're going to get left behind. Yeah. And, you know, but they're fantastic people. They're intelligent people. You know, like this week, like I said, I've been frustrated and anxious too.

Let's see what the next 72, 96 hours bring us. Hopefully some good news. But they're good people. They love and care about each other as a family and something else. And this is one thing I will go guns blazing on them. They don't allow themselves to be promoted. They love and care about this town. I mean, every part of it, they're all, you know, Mike's a Reds fan. Elizabeth is a booster of everything going on in this town and how it is. They worry about the banks. They worry about everything.

And I know for me, the only thing that gives Will to tell you, Will's like me and like yourself, we're lifelong Bengals fans. I would not see myself rooting for another team if the Bengals left. I certainly hope that will never happen. I wouldn't know how.

I wouldn't know how i wouldn't because like for me willow tell you that's true like 2021 i somehow coincidentally it wasn't a season ticket holder yet but ended up getting a bunch of tickets also i got the fourth home game tickets and my employer at the time i was working at a different job uh surprised me and gave me a gift of buying the last buying two they're buying me like two home game tickets for two of the two of the last

four home games of that year and then my mom and my brother surprised me with the other two well to make a long story short uh after having so much fun going to the games because i think that was the most game most bangles games i've gone to. Usually, I always went to at least one or two games a year. After that, I told myself I had so much fun. I said, you know what? I'm going to pull the trigger and get season tickets. Next thing you know, Will tells me, don't worry about it. I'm in with you.

And he's like, yeah, that's it. And then we ended up getting a good playoff game. We were at that playoff game against the Raiders, and that was probably one of the happiest moments to get to be there for as a Bengals fan, and I remember sitting in the I remember us sitting in the crowd and Will sat there and told me what did you say Will? I told him Anthony we're going to Super Bowl I looked at him you said and Will said what do you mean? Why are you looking at me crazy? I'm like dude.

We're going to Super Bowl and what ended up happening Will? Now, Tom, here's what I should have said. We're going to win the Super Bowl. That's what I should have said. Well, maybe the Magic would have run off. But, you know, the key to the playoffs every year, and that's why we've been able to sneak in last year, is just find a way to get in. And when you get in, get hot and get to the Super Bowl. You know. Get in. And we were already hot. So, you know.

You know, we have the quarterback. Playing on the road doesn't bother Joe Burrow.

Nope, it doesn't matter in the least. That is a big advantage If you play in the SEC Or the Big Ten You're used to going into places 90,000 to 105,000 people Hate you Hate you particularly Yeah They hate you They dress like you Families, They know more than they should know Yeah They know things You know Now, I want to get both of your views Because we haven't touched on this yet, We got a deal done with David Mulligan. Darth Vader. Well, yeah. Time to rejoice.

Hoping this could maybe eventually open up a chance to get more deals done. I think if I'm Joseph Asai's agent, I would have said to him, you know what? You were healthy.

You were healthy with Trey Hendrickson on the other side You got hot at the end of the year Was it four of the last five games He had a sack or five of the last six, I want to say like four of the last five I couldn't be wrong I might be four of the last five I couldn't be wrong Four of the last five he had a sack You had your best year You're going in, Sam's retired If you go back You got a damn good shot at starting,

Let's see what you can do over 17 years Let me get you a one-year deal for some good money go back put up a monster do what you did in December and January over the full year and next year I'm getting you $20 million a year and he owed me too, he owed me I told him to his base get 7-8 you got 5 come on he heard me. Good job do we not Anthony right Right. If he gets double face, come on. Right. That's what's dark. He'll be pushing $40 million a year because he's young. And he can still get

it. So. That's the start for him just to get, you know. Yeah. And I think him having the ability to rush from both sides, that's a key. So it is. That's going to always be a key. It's a key. You can rush from left and right. Then you can play with anybody. You can play with anyone's system. Plus on some downs, you can play, yeah, you can plus on some downs, if you really want to get experimental because he was a linebacker in college, you can drop him back in coverage on some downs too.

So, So, yeah, he's one of the few, basically, yeah, he's a hybrid defensive end slash linebacker. So, yeah, you can still run him. You can run him in a number of different facets to where, hey, you can really be able to play with his athletic ability and be able to really confuse and get at people. You could turn around and say we come across Kansas City in the playoffs, decide, no, we're going to play him as the spot. Let's see Let's see how Joe does against Pat.

You owe them one too Yeah, true So, I didn't realize we've been on for almost an hour And I know Tom, you committed to that Before we let you go Did you have anything you wanted to push As far as for upcoming show? Well, we got this coming Sunday, we've got Tony Pike on, and then we have somebody scheduled in two weeks. I think we're going to announce it Sunday that'll be very special. And in addition to that, we appreciated all the support for Jungle Jam last year.

This year's Jungle Jam will be, I can't give the date, I can't give the location, but I can say this. It will be cooler. not just cooler to be there it'll be overall cooler for everybody, we're doing it a little earlier is that, it'll be cooler for everybody it'll be cooler for everybody.

But we've got you know an incredible response from not just the players that were there last year but a lot of guys that weren't there last year that want to be that are hoping they can fit it on their schedule. And, you know, a lot of the guys that were there said, hey, I'm calling so-and-so that I played with and, you know, we're going to find a way. I'm going to tell him he's got to get to town that weekend. You know, it means too much.

And, you know, I will say this, I mean, I'd love talking to you guys and we could talk forever. Whenever anybody sees a Bengal alumni that's, Especially the guys that, you know, we, there were good players during the nineties and the Marvin era when they come back. And there was one guy and I, because of the conversation I would give away two of us were talking to him and he got tears in his eyes and we said,

I think I might know who you're referring to. We'll keep that under rats. I think I might. We said, what's up? And he's like, I thought everybody hated me. I thought everybody hated us. I said, what do you mean? And I listed a bunch of the good things he did. I listed a bunch of good games. He's like, but back then, we read the paper. We listened to the radio. We thought everybody hated us. We thought everybody hated us.

It just killed us because a lot of guys, he said, when they'd leave the city, it wasn't the organization. It was just, man, we're hated. Even when we do good stuff, they bang on us. You know, we do good. You know, we win. We make the playoffs. They bang on us. You know, we upset somebody. We play good for a month. They bang on us. And he's like, you know, I had this bad game and that bad game. He said, I just assumed that's, you know, all I ever heard about me.

And he said, you know, to come back and to see all these knowledgeable Bengals and talking like you said, I remember this game. I remember that game. I remember seeing you somewhere and you stopped and talked to me. He said, you weren't allowed to get that back as a player here in Cincinnati. So, you know, once we announce it, I hope everybody can come back this year, talk to those guys. I do want to give a quick shout out to last year in that heat.

Everybody who stood in line to get an autograph. But two guys in particular that hung in. And I was the one I went out to him and said, you know, hey, guys. He hung in there ridiculously, and he had a gentleman there assisting him who was begging him, John, Bob, you can't stay out here in this heat. You know, we've got to go. He stayed way past his time. He almost didn't do the other, I mean, like an hour and 45 minutes past his time.

And then finally, you know, he realized he really did need it to go. Jim Breach stood there, and I went and tapped him. I said, hey, Jim, you're way past, you know, the time we asked for you. You could go. he looked up and he smiled and he pointed that long line. He said, if they're willing to come out to visit with me and they're willing to come out and stand in that hot sun like that, just to visit with me.

He said, I will stay till they don't want to see me anymore or there's nobody left. And he did. He plowed through two sessions and waited till everybody was that wanted to see him. Everybody that wanted to meet him got to meet him. Yeah. And other guys think the same way. And that's honorable because one thing I know as a kid, getting to meet, because I even got to meet some of my heroes growing up. Like, for instance, Willie Anderson was a big hero of mine. Mine, too, and I was a grown man.

Well, for me, I was a high school kid. I was a high school kid learning the offense, learning how to play out O-line. And a lot of how I learned how to play O-line was watching him. Watching how he did things and just my dream would be to get to have him on the podcast and just tell him what he meant to me as far as, a football player and just still mine.

Shilto's used to have at their different locations they would have for a good portion of the season a different bangle every week, and I begged my dad, and he took me to the downtown Shilatoes to meet Ken Riley one week. It was awesome. And then after they drafted him, in fact, I went two different times, Archie Griffin.

I got to meet Ken's son, and Ken's son is very... I made sure that I took the time out of my day to just congratulate him and congratulate his said on the family, on Ken getting into the Hall of Fame. I just said it was long overdue, but I said I want to congratulate you and your family for finally being able to do that for your father.

You know, Ken has done that, and every year when we've done the Jungle to the Hall and the Jungle Jams with now, Jungle to the Hall is part of the Jungle Jam Day. Ken has come back every year. Yeah. And loves to sign autographs, loves to talk football, visit with his dad's teammates. He's a great representative of his family. Mrs. Riley, the late kin's wife, is as classy a woman as you can imagine. Yeah, they're credits to the city. They should be honored more, frankly. Oh, yeah.

With that said, definitely make sure you've stayed way past your time. Make sure you're cleaning Sunday from the Bingo Gym and Friends podcast show. Thank you. Until you catch it on YouTube. Or, hey, if you follow him on Facebook, that's another way to make sure you get the chance to watch it. Also, you make sure you follow Will and myself. Tyler should be back in the next episode because Tyler's a little bit under the weather.

Outside of that, because we definitely don't want to hold Tom up any further because, hey, Tom's been always been good to us about giving us his time and he's helped us along the way. Always love talking football with you guys. Hope we can do it again soon. Oh, yeah. So with that being said, on behalf of.