Inside the Trey Hendrickson Contract Saga

Music. And we are back for another episode of the rule the jungle podcast i am your host anthony anderson and alongside me is my co-host and my good buddy and road dog he is the learning tree otherwise known as god emper doom what's going on will well not much man not much you know, i don't know would this be a good time for uh quotes from close from doom, no no no you know i'm away i'm away well i'm not gonna start this off with a

quote Well if you want to quote By the title of the show The title of today's episode, It's It's about the latest on Trey Hendrickson, So With that being said I think a lot of us Pretty well know From the Super Bowl, Joe doing his radio Road tours And basically speaking out for all his guys And Trey Hendrickson was one of them that he spoke up for us that they wanted to get him on a new deal.

To make a long story short from how everybody has seen it play out so far they can't seem to agree on a number but, I've heard, there's been multiple numbers thrown out. I don't think it's been one concrete number that I've heard. Have you?

No, but it seems like it's like, like a moving goalpost. Every time, every time you think, right, this is very similar to the TAs, right? When you think you got a baseline, a low number and possibly a high number, those things change. You get someone else to report something differently. And I'm like, look, look, honestly, it ain't even about, it's not even about, it's not even about the number, I'm guessing. You know, because I, you know, you got to read to what Trey Finkwood said, right?

Yeah, because he's gone on record. Because he has gone on record. He's recently had an appearance on, on the Pat McAfee show. Yeah.

Which, nothing against Pat McAfee. I watch his show periodically But there's times But there's times where some of his stuff Is just I don't know It seems like he does a lot of pandering Because ESPN wants him to He's a punter, Yeah So to me He's never been more relevant than now Wasn't relevant as a punter So There you go, Where his kicker was more outspoken and more publicized than himself in Vanderjack, right? There you go. That's someone they should have a sale.

Right? That would be great. That would be great. I ain't got no problem with that, Max. You know, I know why he's there. You know, I know why. It's fine. I don't take it. I don't think it takes the heart anyway. It doesn't make no difference to me.

Oh, no, no, I get that. You know, I'm no bigger, bigger or, you know, I'm not totally, I'm not indifferent on that back to you, but yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't take this taste like I take some of the other guys because they, they, you know, they're not pulled. Some of the other analysts, if you ask that are football players, right. They're a little more dedicated. They've been doing it for a bit longer. Their pace, have always been, you know, they've always been like it.

It's almost like if they don't throw shade somehow to one team or another, it's almost like they don't want them on the show. If you notice, this thing comes, it's like every flows. Despite it being football, you know, football-related and these are football players, they're not always on the show. You notice that. Very true. There are times when you don't see none of them. It's like part of the year that season's going on, I'm like, well, where's all you going to go back?

I wouldn't want to hear that. They didn't run their course. They don't fit the ESPN narrative all the time.

But basically, to make a long story short, and I'm going to pull up an article, that I thought was very interesting because in the course of the contract drama, there has been a lot of, and you and I talked off the record about this. Where I think last week or the week before Was the owner's meeting, It was the week before Oh yeah the week before Okay yeah It was the first week And that's where I kind of I thought it was last week too at first You know.

Yeah slow time to go about that Well in the course of things Mmhmm, in the course of things that they interviewed basically Paul Daner jr. And shout out to him. He's actually, if you, if you haven't ever listened to, if you've never read any of his art, if you don't know who Paul Daner jr. Is he is a writer for the athletic. And if you don't have a subscription, you definitely should think about getting one. Cause I enjoy it. That's how I keep my Bengals updates on.

And he's one of my, he's one of my favorite writers. For The Athletic. Also, he does have a podcast called The Growler, so you definitely might want to check that out as well.

But getting into the crux of things, during the owners meeting, and for anybody that's followed the team for quite, some time, the owners meeting is one of those events of the year where basically they do a whole bunch of rule changes and shit, and usually that's one of the few times where you actually hear Katie Blackburn speak to the media. I think the other time, if I'm not mistaken, is the mock turtle soup luncheon or whatever the hell that is. Yeah.

But in the course of things, they talk to Katie about a lot. But the particular they talked about the stadium lease, which that can be a topic for another show. But they are asked about Trey Hendrickson.

And in the course of the conversation and I think this made some I think this made some Bengals fans very upset in the sense that, they're I don't know like I said that this is this was the feeling I get so I'm trying to bear with me just a second, alright now the statement that you put out for favor if you To me, if you dig. As with anything, if you dig, you can manipulate that thing the way you want to. You can breathe into it one way or the other, which is fine,

but I don't understand why the upset, why lie? Why is everybody so upset? I would like to know what you thought she was going to say. I actually thought she said more than what I thought. I didn't think she was saying that much. Personally. Here it is. Here it is. Here it is. You got it? Okay. Yep.

So, basically, instead of Paul Danner went on, on Tuesday, Blackburn was asked if it was feasible to give Trey Hendrickson what he wants after paying large extensions to both T. Higgins and Jamar Chase. Katie Blackburn went on to say, I think he should be happy at certain rates that maybe he doesn't think he'd be happy at. I think some of it is on him to be happy at some point. And if he's not, you know, that's what holds it up sometimes. So, you know, it takes him to say yes to something.

And also, we have all the respect in the world for him. He's been a great player. We're happy to have him. And so maybe we'll find a way to get something to work. We're just going to see where it goes. I don't know that I would have took, I don't know, for me, I don't see where, I don't see where, what's the word? I don't think that there was anything per se wrong. Because I think at some point there is some relevance of truth behind that statement.

Was it maybe a little on the blunt end of things? Yeah. But you also have to look at it in the fact that the Cincinnati Bengals is Katie Blackburn, Troy Blackburn, and Mike Brown's business. They don't have a huge multi-billion dollar outside business that they can shuttle more money into. This is one of those things where, hey, this is what they've been about. This is what it's been for them.

Like I said, I don't see anything wrong with it, but I know also, too, it also goes on to say that to give up to show what Trey said, that was a little disappointing because communication has been poor over the last couple of months. They haven't communicated with my agent directly, and that's a little bit frustrating.

In that article, they do say the Bengals gave Hendrickson permission to seek a trade earlier this offseason And Director of Player Personnel, Duke Tobin, stated A desire to get a contract extension worked out at the NFL scouting combine We would like to extend that, Tobin said We would like to keep him not only happy, but with us on a longer-term basis.

So basically What it boils down to Because Trey's went on record Saying that he's not worried About being the highest paid But You also have to find a Number that, Meets in the middle with what they want With what the Bengals Are thinking and what you're thinking So if you're thinking In the upwards of 30 mil That. That's in the conversation for the highest paid. That's in the – yeah, it is. It's not the highest paid, but it's in the same sentence as being the highest paid.

So you don't have to – so to me, you don't have to come out and say, I don't want to be the highest paid. Well, you're not going to be the highest paid. Let's keep it 100 here. You're not going to be the highest paid. And Duke Tobin even went on to say – Kelsey Conway interviewed him early in the offseason when they were at the Senior Bowl.

I know a lot of people lost their minds over it. I didn't see anything wrong with it, per se, because there is truth to the statement that not every, and there's something that realistically us as fans have to take into consideration. Not everybody's going to be the highest paid at their position on a team. You have to have some lower paid guys. Actually, no. Yeah, right? Well. Well, here's the thing. It's going to be one person that's the highest paid in the league at their position.

It's probably one person. Does it have to be you? No, it don't have to be. It doesn't matter even if you're the best person, best player at your position. That doesn't mean you're the highest paid. I'm not saying, it's not about deserves. It's not about, you know, right? See, because remember, these contracts are not for what you're going to do. It's not for what you've done. It's not for what you've already done. It's for what they think you're going to continue to do.

No, no, because we don't know what you're going to do. We don't know what you're going to continue to do. You don't know it. Nobody knows it. We're paying you off of what you just did. You can hope. You can speculate. guess what? Still don't make no difference. That doesn't make you right. That doesn't mean he's going to do this. 17 and a half sacks is an awful lot of facts per year. The fact he's done it two years in a row, remarkable. It's fantastic.

But don't get it. But don't be fooled by that. Don't get that twisted. Don't be so enamored with just that one thing. Because there's more. There's more he can do than just that. There's more he can do on. I know. I'd like to hear that. I'd like to hear me say that. First time I've said this, right? Yeah. He's not a perfect problem. He's not a perfect... He's not the ultimate well-rounded defensive end. He is arguably the best pass rusher in the biggest system. I will say that.

But that's not enough because that's not... That's why you're getting... That's why he'll be in this conversation as part of top in the week. That's why. But you know, there's more to that. And there is. But me personally, here's a personal, personal, personal, personal here. Remember I said, remember I made the pie, I made a pie analogy. I made one off air and I kind of made one on air a little bit a couple weeks ago. Yeah. Since there's only so much pie to go around, here's the thing.

Each year, there's a pie. Right? A lot of money these years. Well, you got three guys who all deserve their money. And all three of them definitely do. I can't, and I can't even say, per se, like that Trace wouldn't be the highest paid. I can't say that he shouldn't. I'm telling you that he isn't going to be.

At least not now. Not this year he isn't. I don't see that now. We can't. And some will say, and some will say because it's always easy to do this after the fact. The restructuring the contracts and, oh, we should have did this and that. Listen, listen, listen. The more important, the most important thing is to get them to sign. It don't matter how we did it because have you let one of those two go, our team going forward would not be good.

Since I don't have to worry about Triggs and not putting on the uniform and playing this year, which he will do, no matter what, whether it gets done today, tomorrow, next week, next year, he will do just like I said the other two guys would do and did, right I just wanted to get done I'm not in that hurry for to get done if he's in a hurry to get something done well then you get it done then remember I said

that remember one of the things with T is I'm like listen don't let your agent don't let your agent, don't let his actions say everything opposite of what you're saying, because it doesn't make me look good it don't make you look good. Because he wanted to be here. I knew he wanted to be here. I believed him when he said that. His agent actually didn't say that. None of the exterior things were pointing towards you know, David Mugland didn't

give a shit whether he was here or not. He didn't want to get fined the most of my money. We've had our friend at the show say those things. Say those sentiments, right? Because in the end, you know, in the end, because they backed David Mugland. That's fine. I don't I still actually don't have a real issue with him. I got issues with things that he says. That's all. Oh, with what David Mulligan says? I got issues with what he says. Because it doesn't reflect his actions.

It doesn't. Look, trying to get your client the most amount of money to a fan, that doesn't sound. I mean, I understand it. But to a fan, that sounds very selfish.

That makes the player selfish. even though I know T isn't that's why I'm like wow okay maybe T I knew but it's to get done I'm thinking like maybe T needs to step in here because he can he can quit being so your career, remember it ain't like it's not like trade agent you know he works for him that's something about we get and we understand as people as a person right, Anthony I'm your agent right yeah you turn everything over to me right so I

go out and do you know in the guidelines that you want to stay on this certain team so I, I understand the guidelines but I'm going to try to get the most money I can out of the team, for you the client but also for me because you can't leave that part out you can't leave that part out that that part's in it it's the reason why you pay me but you turned it all over to me, the negotiation, all of it. You placed it in my hands. That would mean that, you know, you're saying it.

Nope, I'll let my agent do all that. Well, maybe you shouldn't. Maybe you shouldn't, right? Right? Maybe you shouldn't let the agent keep telling you something that doesn't align with what you want. I don't think, I mean, look, you had the statement, the statement that Trey said, if something happened, he just traded.

He would like to you know the organization get as much as he can for him to help us win listen I what at what point.

Would that be enough whatever we get for trade that would equal trade I don't think anything would honestly I don't think anything would I understand I understand what he said, to win right now which is what I'm talking about I'm not talking about winning next year the year after the year after that no no there's no guarantees in life, right now today, this very year, this season, because it's the most important season, last year, done, dead, I don't even need to keep reflecting on it.

This year is this year. The team we got right now, it's better than last year's team, or at least equal to. Yeah. I would almost say that it's better because, you know, I remember having these conversations, you know, where, you know, We had a conversation to where the morale of our team at one point, I believe it was at 2022, where we didn't get a deal done with Jesse, the morale of the other players. I'm like, yeah, but let's just be a cautionary tale to you and everybody else.

You can hire the agent to do his job, but you can always step in. You pay him to get you more money. You can't let them run them up and just do whatever. If you really want to stay somewhere, you make that happen. You're the final boss. You're the final staff. You're the one that says, well, you know what? I know I left this up to you to get this. I want to stay here so you get it done so I can stay here.

Because Trey did also mention, right? Did he not mention he wanted to be able to come home and tell his wife, well, here's what we offer for four years, right? I get that. That makes sense. I understand that. I understand that. You know.

I get moving i get it you know we you know we both moved Anthony right we know what the heck time that is but gosh i mean if i had as much money as they did i i'm confused how hard it is to really move when you are a millionaire someone explained to me right where i'm gonna be seven what was sympathy you got the sympathy see there's a disconnect here i'm i'm a i'm a person that's worked hard all my life, that, you know, I've not made a million dollars total in my life. No. I'm just saying.

I understand it. I understand getting the most money that you possibly can, but it can't be at the detriment of the team, because that doesn't make sense to me, as a fan or as a businessman. That doesn't make sense. If you harm the team, right, because obviously fans change, since he doesn't harm the team, we gave him the money. Right? It's already done. Right? Here's what I'm saying. Gave Joe money. It's already done.

We don't even need to worry about offense. I know we have fans out there that's still worried about the guard situation. I'm like, okay, you can be worried about everything all the time. That's fine. That's fine. If that's my biggest worry, guard, then great. We are in such better shape than any team possibly in Bengals history if we have to worry about every single position. Are we worried about if I could run on that? No, no one said anything about that. I did, though. I did right away.

I've seen more of an issue to me more of unknown, unknowns there. Defensive line? Nope. We got nine of them. The problem last year, right? And Trey's one of them, by the way, for everybody listening. It's not like... See, when we have this conversation, if it's next year, yeah, there's more angst, right? There'll be more, you know, there'll be a different tone in my voice. There'll be a little more, you know... I wouldn't even say worry.

No, because I'm not going to worry. Either way, it's not going to make me difference. I'm not a free agent. Remember I said something about T.A. against me? What is a free agent? He ain't going nowhere. He can't. And the last time we seen a player... I get what you're saying. Look at Hassan. Hold on. Look at Hassan Reddick. See what happens when you sit out a year for no reason? Now he's on another team. I'm like, well, is that what you want?

Because this league moves on like the rest of the leagues do. Every year is a proof of year. Every year is different. Think about what we thought of attacking Holmes after his first full year. He threw 50 touchdowns. He threw 18 interceptors, too. People like to sweep that under the road, too. That's fine. He threw 50 touchdowns, right? He tried to do what's going to be the greatest of all time after one year. I'm like, no, that's really fine. What is going to take you to do? Not to that extent.

Will it put up good numbers? Of course. Yeah, he ain't doing that every year. That's unrealistic that's that's i can just that it's just silly to think that i'm like yeah for his full entire season he tore it up i mean it's great wonderful he put that in that conference that's what i did my first year right like what joe did his first entire full year right, right yeah he made the football right didn't he not his rookie year now no it's 2021.

Uh, no, he got snubbed. It was 20, 20. Oh, he got snubbed? 20, 22. Yeah, 20, 22 and then 2024. But 2022, he turned down going again and they picked, I think Trevor Lawrence went in his place. Well, at least he made it because he should have made it before too. For sure. For sure he should have made it before. 100%. 100%. You know? Come back, you know, player of the year, 2021.

Yeah. like okay Trey you know when everything's going good and all that and you, and we still took a chance on Trey Henderson, right we appreciate everything he's done and we don't want him to go anywhere but no we're not going to let you you know we're not going to let you this shouldn't be a distraction don't make it into one either, right we don't need one we.

I would like to have an offseason where there is no distraction I find it quite ironic that didn't Trey do this he did this already and we gave him an extension that's not good enough, I need to hear comments here I need to hear people saying address this like no one I almost don't hear anyone saying anything about this we just did this, we just did this maybe you shouldn't have extended it for one year maybe you should have tried two or three that's what I would have done I wouldn't have

extended my deal to just one more year I want to be here ultimately. If you don't really agree to something, don't agree. It's not like you're a free agent. It's not like you know what fight like hell to get you. Who else? Look, there's nobody else on the defense right now that would be the main focus, even going into next year. Fantasy will be the number one priority, period. He's the number one priority right now, even over everything else.

But we do have to stop, right? We do have to stop and get ready for the draft. As all teams do, they stop. They don't hammer and push down negotiations the closer and closer you get the draft. That week in the draft, you have to do the draft. Do the draft. Worry about that. You know, if this week coming up, you know, we get something done with Trey, it'd be great. But I'm not looking, I'm not expecting it.

You know, my mind is towards the draft. I understand. Everything that's said, it's not like any blocker type of mind said, well, you know, you should be happy with what you got. That's not exactly what she said. People think that, right, people think that's what she said. That is not what she said. That is not what she said. And that's the thing. And that's the thing. Let me get this in.

A lot of people, and I think what it boils down to is we, like, I think we get emotionally invested to the point of where we think that this is our team, where we think, like, we own the team. And as much as we say, like, my team, this, that, and the other, I do it too. I know at the end of the day it ain't me writing the checks. So the thing is, and a lot of people are going to say that you have to look at the past and that the Bengals have not had a great... Record in trying to.

Put a winning product on the field. If this were the 90s, I would shut the fuck up and let them have that. But I will say this, though. If it was the 90s, I wouldn't get paid. The problem is, we had a lot of guys we had to pay. It started up up top. Okay, side up up top. Different general manager, different coach, right? Went to a bunch of them, right? None of them which really, really worked out long-term. Nope,

none of them. That's the issue. Well, because we know Coach Taylor ain't going nowhere. He's been very successful once, you know, we put a team that could win, right? And we have won, and we have not lost. Because people like to go 19 and 20. Well, hey, 12 teams suck. There, you think I'm so soft on my team? No, I am not. I've always, I always, it's good I have to go back very far to say he's a bad. There's nothing redeemable about 2019 and 2020. Nothing. There's nothing redeemable about it.

I don't want to remember it's 2-14 and then, you know, 4-11-1 with Joe getting, you know, right? No, I don't want to know them those times. I don't want to know them that. There's not a fan. There's no fans anywhere that say, let me go to the Super Bowl. What in that 4-11-1 year would tell you the next year we're going to be in the Super Bowl, six men away from winning it with the league? Nothing.

But you know what? You know what I didn't do? I didn't get down because we went 2-14 one year and 4-11-1 next year. I'm never down low spirit-wise. Nah, I'm the same. I always expect the team to do reasonably well. And then we do reasonably well. Yeah, I do expect them to do at least reasonably well again the next year. But I know every year is different. When I say my team, I don't mean my team, but my team, the only team in the league that I root for, no matter what. That's what I mean.

Yeah, that's where I'm at. My fandom, it ain't got nothing to do with me with what I think I can do with the team. That's nothing to do with it. Because I think a lot of people are struggling. You rarely ever, but you rarely ever hear me say if I was, no, no, it doesn't matter what we would do with the team. I go with what I think we should do. Usually, then I'll come back in and talk about what we actually did. Do I like it or not? If it's successful, I'm going to go with it.

I'm always going to go with it. That's what I'm saying. I'm going to go and stick with the damn decisions that they make. Because I have to. What else am I going to do? I don't have to like it. I don't like it. But, you know, I've never liked every move that the team made. I haven't liked every draft pick. Lord knows. Lord knows. Lord knows how bad I have personally cut up our drafts. From the get-go, though, but I did it from the get-go.

I've done this since the age of seven where I mixed in our drafts and tried to project the players on our team how I think they would do, how they would fit. I've had issues from the start that doesn't mean that doesn't mean I'm totally like you know.

I'm not totally on board I'm not totally off board I will accept I will go with whatever happens we signed a long term great I'm going to go with it we don't sometimes have look I'm a research damn team that's here doesn't matter still want to win doesn't make a difference I'll give it in look here's the thing, I don't know of anyone else who said this. I don't give a damn who's on the team and who's mine. There. I said I'm all mine. I don't care who's on the team and who's mine.

I know who I want to be on the team. See, that's two different things. Who I want to be on the team and who's on the team, they give me two different things. Here's what I want. I want the team to win the Super Bowl. This year, next year, the year after that, the year after that. Why not? My clock is ticking it's been ticking for 40 plus years right? It ain't gotta be next year that'd be stupid it'd be dumb to just put all my

eggs in this basket that's why people say we need to go all in I'm like why? don't play no more?

Is the whole team leaving Anthony? I don't think so I know at least we got 34 years of Joe Chase and I think that's pretty good to me, I'll take that thing think back to 20 like I said go back to 2019 did you want any of them guys on the team let's be honest let's be honest did you want any of them damn guys on the team going forward, not looking at that team like I don't even understand what we doing.

Like right I'm like okay I guess this is the shit see to me this is how I internalize it this is the shift of errors shifting out of the you know right shifting out of the A.J. Green, Andy Doan era, Marvin Lewis era, right, into a new era. I just figured, well, that's going to take a couple years. I just hoped it didn't take five. Well, guess what it didn't. It took two. It took two. And because the jump was a medium steep, now everyone is crazy. I'm like, look, let me see.

Here's my thing. I ask everyone now to just say, okay, look, the whole landscape of the league has changed since 2020, 2021. There's some contents, some things have changed. A lot of things are different. There is no way logically, realistically, or not anyone can say that we ain't spent a ton of money.

Organization yeah we spent all the money we got who does that who does that and why do you think that's acceptable because it isn't it isn't i don't want to change the team over dramatically, i don't unless look unless we go two and 14 which i don't see no chance of that happening how about that there i can come out and say there's no there's no chance of that happening but if it does I will come back on this podcast,

and I will tear a hole in everything and everybody but I'll still find something positive out of it because there'll be something there'll always be something positive always something positive out of the season we didn't lose. Right the fight that we shown the fight that we shown that's the team, that one in four start right that's not the team everybody knows that that's not working us that's the hole we dug in Because there was a lot of distractions coming to figure, wasn't there?

About everybody. I'm like, I'll send our media. I expect that from them. But our fans, I would hope you just, you can't pull it together. You can't pull it together for a little while. You want to jump ship? You should have been jump ship. Now I found it to be a little ridiculous. You want to jump ship? Go ahead and jump ship. You're going to turn the ship around and run over the top of you. Because you can't get back on.

No, I don't let you get back on. I'm not going to let anybody get back on this ship if you jump off. That means, shit, I mean, why didn't you jump off in 2022? They didn't win the Super Bowl.

We won 10 games in a row. So we've never done a history war. We made two AFC Champions League games in a row. We've never done that ever. And here we are, a couple more years later. We haven't lost, haven't lost in season. They didn't go like we wanted to for reasons that are not excuses. Because injuries aren't excuses. Injuries are just injuries, right? slow starts we definitely can't act like that hasn't happened for I don't know 40 plus years we have slow starts.

Year. It didn't start off, you know, it didn't start off rosy, did it? No. Everybody wasn't sitting at our damn praises. I think we was what? We was at midway point, we was five and four? Which I'm saying, man. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody was killing us. I'm like, wait a minute. You two realize that the streets should have been paid for gold at five and four after the two years prior to this. Right?

We won more games in 20, 21 than we did in 2019 and 25, but yet you know, that taste right, that feeling, that feeling dissipated, why? We spent more money the last two years than we did in 2021, nobody knows that this year, we spent more money this year I can't remember giving any one player in a season this high, let alone two at the same time that ain't enough, that's enough for me, I want everybody to look around the league. Who else did that?

Who else has done that? Are we going to sign our top free agent? And we're going to sign a guy who's not even a free agent yet. He's more money than that in the same year. At the same time. Because I think what it boils down to because we're looking at I think you and I spoke of this off the record. I'm going to say this and I kind of can't help but wonder and I'm not saying that this is definitively what it is.

So let's go ahead and get the elephant out of the room So let's not get my words Twisted, of me can't help but wonder if, and again, I'm putting the emphasis on if, you do have to wonder is, and I think where I'm getting at is, I just wonder if it's more about maybe, and again, I could be wrong.

I have to wonder if it has a little bit to do with the, number that they're saying it's a $15 million because as a matter of fact let's do it right now let's look up Trey's contract so we can know definitively, I thought it was basically like $21 million the extension I think but I don't so I thought, they're in the bone decision Because they're all saying, I'm looking at it right now 2024 was 14-8 With a $5 million signing bonus And then Yeah, he's playing, 15-8 Might as well say 16 million.

Plus a signing Proration Which is basically a fancy word for saying Signing bonus and a roster bonus as well. So you're looking at, might as well say 19 mil. 19. So the extension was for what? How much was the extension we gave? He agreed to. What was that? 15-8 with a $2,666,668 signing bonus along with the $200,000 roster bonus.

Okay so by my, by my estimation alone right it's just me it's just me talking here right if we pay you that for another three to four years you won't take that is that is that what kind of basically what I'm saying he wants more than that, basically when you're I gotta assume he does want right I gotta assume he wants more than that right?

Yes, he's looking he saw the Rashawn Gary contract, and I think there's a couple of contracts that have come up and then you also added Max Crosby and Miles Garrett yeah I think the thing that the fans get hung up on is.

I think you've touched on this On a number of occasions I got another one here Go ahead I think you've touched on this on a number of occasions About I think the word that you hate hearing About It's that word calf And the second word in it is gymnastics Everybody looking at the Eagles As the As the, Definitive Stepping stone a nice topic show, but an example of how they think that a team should be run because you look at a guy like Howie Roseman. Don't get me wrong. Howie Roseman is a monster.

Here, let me, let me, but let me, you know, I'm going to address that, but I'm going to do it a different way. I'm going to do it a different way. Same than normal. Okay.

Okay. All right. Still, even with that being said, people just didn't ask that they're dealing basically here's what it is their offense makes all the money defense doesn't make nothing that's why they're able to do that but the defense are expendable parts that has to be replaced every damn year right so you got a hot rod right with this great souped up motor but all the accessories have to be fixed and changed every year,

that don't mean it works it runs does it run optimally I guess it'll keep running right you got the money going this is the offensive guys who's making the money that kind of reminds us offensive guys make money in this league, I wish it was the reverse but defensive guys don't make money they don't and here's what normally doesn't happen you don't have more than one of them making a whole bunch of money right.

Somebody named me a defense out there that got two guys making a shit ton of money normally someone has to take a backseat after a while right He wasn't me around. But I'll tell you this, there ain't nobody out there that's going to tell me, you cannot tell me that you think losing Joe Burrow, losing Jimartes, or losing T. Higgins is a smaller blow than losing Trey Henderson. The fact that we ain't lost him. We ain't lost him? He's not going any fucking way.

Let the fans hear me say this again. You can argue all you want, one way or another. Tell me that he's not under contract. Oh, wait, that's where he is. So that means this year, which is more important than wait until next year, or even talking about next year, and you do that, that's silly. Even as an agent, you can do that all you want. We don't know what's going to happen next year. There could be no NFL next year. That's possible. Probably unlikely, right? It's possible. Anything's possible.

You never know. Anything can happen. Right? We all know. No crystal ball. We all can just assume. This is what we do. We assume. We assume. Take things for granted. Nope. I'm not taking it for granted that you signed a 6-6. Right? You signed it. It was enough money last year. You want more money? Fine. I don't disagree that he should not get more money. He should. But then, how much more money do you want? You don't want to be the highest paid? Well, it's okay. He wasn't going to be.

There's a sucker going every day. And if you, you definitely can't take, you know, you can't take anything the Browns do as, no, don't use that for leverage at all. That's silly. That doesn't make sense. Packers? Sean Gary? Well, I mean, okay, look, what has Sean Gary done since then, though? See, here's what's important. What has he done since then? He hasn't done as well. He hasn't played as well. Hmm. Interrupting.

Buy her everywhere. We're allowed to have that. Hold on. So as fans, you don't have buy everywhere? If I walked up to you right now, you didn't know who I was. And I said, I need $100. Would you just give it to me? Because I am a nice guy. Could I do what's probably needed? And I wouldn't lie to you and say that I don't need it and did. But you still wouldn't. You still be hesitant to do it. Because there's really no guarantee on anything.

Okay, see, I give it back. There's no guarantee that I really need it.

You should even give it and you're not wrong, so like I'm not I'm not per se like concerned because we're not at that point of concern I said to the VIT a couple years ago I said I'm not concerned now I'll be concerned more next year which I was because he was a legitimate regent and Anthony just like you looked up you know we've looked this up off air we can't franchise Sam Fadison correct I honestly that's what I think is going to happen.

See what that does. It's going to buy us more time to get the deal done. Guess what? I got something confident that it will get done. Because I think what's going to end up happening, I'm not sure that the deal's going to get done this year. I hope I am wrong. It's shameful to have it. It's a client shame. It's really a client shame. That trade makes it almost $20 million this year, which is probably almost as much as 82 guys on the defense combined, right?

And that's just not good enough for the fans. I'm like, what are you talking about? Paying is almost $20 million. I mean, $20 million. That's almost the most you paid anyone in the history of the league on defense. History? I would like to know. Who on defense have we ever paid $20 million to anyone? No that's not no no no no that's not you know and you can talk spare market and all that stuff that yeah it makes your child smart but if you talk to a fan of 40 years that don't that.

Don't have any reason to care about that i don't care about that that doesn't make any that doesn't make any that doesn't matter to me it don't matter to me i am not related to trey henderson right so it don't matter, right? I'm a fan of Trey Ainsman, right? Am I a fan of him making $30 million? I don't care. Why do I care? Is he happy? Sure, I'd love him to be happy, but you know money's not going to make you happy. He wants the amount of years. I understand that. That's something I agree with.

I agree with not doing a short-term deal, and I'm glad Duke told McKay and I said that. Long-term. I'm glad he said that. That's the most important thing said of the whole entire, you know, about this whole thing. That's the most important thing to say. Long-term deal. The numbers are just getting thrown back and forth, right? They'll just play chicken back and forth. That's what Asians do. You play chicken and you come up a little bit. Somebody comes out a little bit, right?

Little bit more. Somebody comes down a little bit more. You change this. You change that. I think, see, at the end, when it just gets done, once the numbers and deals come out, I'm going to break it down and be just pleased with it. And I'm going to come back on this podcast and say, I don't care. He got done. He's here. Let's move on. Like I said with Chase, I never said they wouldn't be here. I never said that. I said, well, look, Joe said that Chase ain't going nowhere.

He said that we didn't drive for them. I said, well, I believe him. He was right. He came out and said, you know, Steve Higgins is my friend. Right? He said this. I'm like, oh, well, he ain't going nowhere. He said Steve Higgins is my friend. He's my brother. Steve Higgins ain't going nowhere. He ain't going nowhere. That's different. That's different. When people come out and vows for you like that, right? The best player on the team vows for you.

He didn't mention Trey Higgins. Did he not? Anthony, right? Don't mention Trey Higgins by name. I don't think he's going nowhere. I don't know if he, you know. I don't know where he's going to fall in the top echelon. And why does that matter to people? That's my question. Why does it matter where how much? Why is that more important than the fact that it is that he's here? That's the most important thing to me. I don't give a damn how much.

I don't care how long. I would rather it be in search for him. Sure. It's one to get done. It's kind of tiring to see you talking about. And I'm like, all right, we can talk about this every single day. Two, three, four weeks later, the point is, did it get done? Is it done yet? No. We both were in agreement that I think it's just a better idea to do the actual deal next year. And to me, I don't care if they move the goalposts.

He's unopposed. No. And folks will dislike three agents next year through 380. They say we should have did more. I'm like, well, why? Do you think we're so bad that we need more? We don't. I don't. You think the league as a whole has gotten better, Anthony, since 2021? That it's gotten better? There's not more teams that, you know, there's not more good teams in the league than there is the same amount of teams. No, no. Every year, yeah, all the teams

all get better. Some of the teams that are really good, they get worse. Here's the thing, as long as we don't get worse, we haven't gotten worse. Are you telling me the offensive line last year of Orlando Brown, hold on, let's look at the real history. Landon Brown, Bolson, Karras, Kappa, and Trent Brown? Are you saying that, okay, we'll keep Mims and Landon Brown and Karras in there? They're the same. Some combination of Lucas Patrick, Cody Ford, you know, right?

Bolson, a draft pick, some other guy, maybe Sheriff, you say that line, the line we got now wouldn't be better than last year's line? Especially knowing what we know, knowing how bad capital of the year would be. Knowing how Trent Brad would give us what? What, he gave us five games, then he got hurt, right? Remember to put Mims in there? And then Mims eventually messed his thumb up, and he got hurt and was in and out for a while?

You're telling me that you guys think that line is better than this line now? If it don't get hurt, I mean, Cody Schwartz has proven to be able to play four spots. We ain't never had nobody be able to do that. I'm not worried. I wouldn't be worried if he had to start a guard. Yeah, he looked good at left guard when he came in for a motion.

I think that's arguably like his most admirable – I think it might have been his best game, but the most mineral game is the game against Pittsburgh when Lohan Mahone, all of a sudden, he's in there blocking TJ Watt. I'm like, wow, that's not – that ain't what we want. But gosh, you know, we still won the game. We won the game. It's a game that both teams need it, per se, right? Steelers needed it. We needed it to get in. They needed it too.

They didn't shit nobody right they didn't do the Kansas City right don't play nobody they didn't do that, no you're not you're not wrong just remember just remember in the beginning of your folks when I had someone legitimately walk up to me at a game and say we should take remember that conversation we had.

And I looked and said no it wasn't at the was it at the one preseason game last year, no it wasn't preseason no it was during the season I think we won in we were like 0-3 at home or something like that or 3 or 4 something like that yeah something like that, yeah but I'm like to do that now would be that would be crazy I'm like it's too many games I did mention we were mathematically eliminated last year I came on every week and said well we could just win this week.

Up and change went eight and four i'm like you know that team right there that that that stretch there that's more us than anything else than that start to the season but i've documented why i mentioned every week pre-game show the injuries and it was always injuries on defense line it's every week there was not one week where i didn't have at least two or three guys on the defensive on the line, injured, and not playing. That was every week.

I'm thinking, well, shit. Damn. We had to go out and, you know, get bodies. We had to go out and get cheap guys that we didn't necessarily at the beginning of the year, and I think we had to do. Good thing we did. I'm not available to play too many stats playing out of defense. But I'm going there. Can't be any worse. Well, I can know it could be worse. But I wouldn't play a whole bunch of snaps. I'll go in there. They need me. I'll go in there. I'll go in to their guard right now.

You acting like I'm like I couldn't do as well with Akima Denny's age. I think I can. I think you would. I definitely think you would. I'll hold it. Look, hey, I'll leave the league in the holdings if you get it. You ain't hitting the quarterback. If you do with me on your back, right? Tackling you, too, while you do it. So I think this, like, all right, look. No, because, look, here's the thing.

Here's the thing, you know I understand this whole thing with Bolson Is a rollercoaster ride for me Oh yeah If you're unsure about him as a rookie I guess you're just still unsure about him Now we know what he is And what he is, was good enough. Obviously, he's been good enough. You want to replace him? It's fine. I'm not, you know, I'm not one of the ones that say that should or should not happen. But at what cost do you want to just say, you know, screw it.

I'm going to go all in and we're going to have no money. You're going to trade all the money he wants. Right? And we're going to sign Sheriff and sign Hernandez and all this. I'm like, okay, you get the rookie, right? Who cares? They got to take less money.

You know if you try this in Madden It won't let you do this, By the way And this is something I have to try And I have to try it The video game won't let you do it And the video game is not realized I don't know if people think it is It is not It's a simulation, But the cap on the game won't let you do it It don't let you spend.

It don't let you just spend and spend and spend It will say no You can't do this you don't have enough money to sign any free agents you don't have enough because even the lowly, unrated 58th overall player you can't even sign those guys because they're based right, we're signing this a certain amount of money if you don't have it, they don't let you just do it anyway and say well you owe us, no, they say no you can't do this,

you don't have enough money here's the thing I understand people saying that you know, I understand you get time to break down contracts and say, well, maybe we should do Chase. Maybe we should do T. Yeah, okay. That's true. But was that the argument prior to them being signed? No. The thing is, we got to get them signed. We got to get them signed. I'm like, I was the first one to say we will. I said this in 2022. No, 2023. And we signed both. I said this. On the podcast. Go back and look it up.

Go back and look. You guys don't believe me? Go back. Go back to, you know... Very beginning, but go back. And I said, no, we'll sign both of them. But as a fan, with a clear goal as a fan, right? My clear goal as a fan is to, you know, I'm just going to support this team. Whether I like the move or not, I'm going to support it. Because obviously bringing negativity to something, it's not going to help it.

It's not going to help it be the right move, even though I didn't think it was the right move. That I think you should try Jesse Bates. I did. I wanted to. I wanted to bring Bates back. I didn't want to bring him back for $20 million because I've looked at the rest of the league and the four fucking guys I stayed with better than him, they didn't even make $20 million. It was only Derrick James.

And nobody at any point in time in that year, 21, 22, would say Derrick James wasn't the best safety. He didn't deserve it. Of course he did. And he played like it. Like, listen, look. Hey, had Jesse Bates had eight interceptions. Like he did for the Falcons, for us. We'd have paid him $20 million. Okay? Okay? Yeah. If he was better, he would have got paid more. Don't try to make Jesse Bates better than what he was. Don't do that. At no point.

In his whole career. He's been the best safety in the league. At no point. Even with eight interceptions. Even with the year that he had. There is still four guys better than him. But that's okay, though. See, I understand that kind of fandom. That is the same fandom I had as a kid, okay, when no one could do wrong. When I thought Boomer was the best quarterback ever, he wasn't. He wasn't the best quarterback that we've had, okay?

I didn't know that, though. I didn't know that because I didn't know what Ken Anderson had done. I just knew what Boomer, what I thought Boomer could be, what I knew going forward was going to be the guy, right? Kenny Anderson last year was not this year. See how perspective changes? Right? Yeah. With them, no. I'm not the same fan I was as a youth. As an actual child, the kid. No, I'm not more like strictly business side of everything. No, no. I'm still a fan. I'm still a fan. I'm still a fan.

It's still more important wins and losses than anything. Did we win the game or did we lose? Okay, now, okay. Now it's like, how did he lose? Since I'm used to the Bengals losing in two ways normally, we got our ass totally, totally kicked, right? That happened way too often in my lifetime, by the way. We lost real close. Sometimes I wish we didn't get our ass totally kicked. Losing close means, oh, no, we're way better than people say we are.

And, you know, and we all know, you know, Anthony, I know, the listeners out there all know, no matter how long a Bengals fan you've been, you all know somebody that just don't have any, you know, they don't have a, they almost don't have a filter for how we lost. It doesn't matter. The fact that we lost is the most important thing. It doesn't matter that everyone's seen these losses, and they were like under one touchdown scores, but their perception of loss is just, you know,

it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Let's say it doesn't matter because they're really good teams. They don't get blown out. They don't. If you look at it, they're really good ones. They don't get blown out that often. Not to be really good if you don't. You can get beat. You can have a bad game.

Right? It does happen. They don't have it in a row normally Like our really good Funny thing is our really good teams They're really, really good ones we've really had They've gotten blown out, Maybe once in a year Don't happen often We only have one game of the whole year Where the margin was more than seven One, we have one all year, Look at all the teams You know, Think of it this way Think of it this way. Career, I'm going to say to you, we'll never have a top 10 pick.

How about that? How about that? Into the rest of your career, we'll never have a top 10 pick unless we trade for them. We should never technically be that ass. We should never be that ass, no matter what. Right? Even when I'm not even playing, I'm like, no. The rest of the team is still so good and so talented that we still win games. We should win games we shouldn't win. We should win games we should win. Right?

In the end, like, okay, Listen, we can go back and see, as a certain kind of fan, right? A certain kind of fan. I understand because a really, really long time I used to be like that. You do understand it to be, you know, in this, in this, if you really ask for this cap gymnastics, right? You have to say what kind of fan you are because most of the fans, they actually wouldn't like it. Trust me, they wouldn't.

If you really look at the team here's the thing, they wouldn't like it because Trey would have to go because Cap Gymnastic would say well no he makes too much money we can't manipulate all the rest of the money he makes too much typically the way that would go is that they would try to get him to, they would try to get him or try to get one of the other guys to take a contract restructure whether that would mean the actual pay cut or whatever the case may be ain't that the issue is money,

let's tell him what it is right that's the whole thing he wouldn't do it but here's the thing why would he do it he wouldn't i don't think i would only think and the phone thing he shouldn't have to shouldn't have to because that's what he's telling me is that so we're going to negotiate with you and put all this out there and have media all year long ask us about it like they did last year we tried was i mean he was you know this damn in two years actually no they once

he stopped and then the season started, it seemed like it became about Chase I'm like I'm not worried about him not getting paid you guys are ridiculous, I'm gonna look.

Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase were conscious on the team, going to the future there was no way both of them wasn't gonna be on this team, there's just no there's no way there was no there was no reason to fake that or nothing I didn't care if he turned down my dad was just thinking we were gonna get more we did but they did like It's not that Trey's expendable, because he's not expendable.

He does provide the one thing we don't have consistently. Here's the thing. We get more, and inevitably, in time, there will be more. There will be more. There's always somebody else. There's always somebody that's taking from where it is to where it's going to be on the defense. Or, you know, there's always someone else on another team that won't cost as much, that'll be ready, willing, and able to come here if necessary. That's a possibility. Wrong. I know for how...

But look, remember, when I say Captain Nassau, Drake, and I said the Eagles won the Super Bowl, just think how many more defensive players they had on their roster from 2021 to now than we did. Hell, they turned around and signed C.J. Garner Johnson. Only to what? To let him leave. Yeah, to trade him. Yeah, to trade him as soon as the Super Bowl was over. Got one year. Now, had they lost the Super Bowl, I want to keep asking people, would you still have to do cap gymnastics?

I'd rather start trying to do regular gymnastics right now than cap gymnastics. What gymnastics? Regular. I'd rather me at 47, 148, take up real gymnastics than to see my baby do cap gymnastics. That takes so much more effort. I love how people like to see something they knew and they're better to think the whole league should do it. No, it shouldn't. It'd be bad for the players. Let's be honest. It's bad for the players. Especially on defense. I've already noted that.

I've already noted that. Does that mean, look, okay, let's do it in this, let's say it like this. I'm going to use the NBA analogy. There'll be a lot more Robert Orys and a lot less Michael Jordans if everyone did captain assets. Because you'd have to reshape the team every year, which, unless people look, unless people are on their rocks they like this why? Why do you like this? Why do you like having to sign all these free agents because your defense is gone?

Why is that fun? That's not fun If this was a video game, sure it's real life, this isn't fun that means you don't know what you're going to get when people, I don't know, was that you asked me did I see the Chiefs making the Super Bowl? I said no, there's no way there is no way either team makes the Super Bowl there's no possible way I don't even see it. You're talking about as far as this year? Yep, this year. There's no chance of that as far as I'm concerned. None.

There's no way. The Eagles defense legitimately, they don't even – I'm not even sure what's going on. I have no clue. They signed a bunch of guys, and they hope it's working out. They hope they can, you know – they do a lot of hoping. They won the Super Bowl. It doesn't matter. That's my thing. They won the Super Bowl. That might be no difference. Whatever they do is whatever they do. But since we haven't We haven't, right?

Thing and just this is life though this is life this is what people have they have to learn you got to live longer and learn copying is not always the best thing because you get away with it sure, copying off somebody sure right so you did that in school right Anthony right because you get away with it probably what you learned though you learned how to copy off somebody you didn't learn anything on your own you said hey that kind of works But wait a minute. Here's the thing.

When you say that and you say Philadelphia, well, what are the other teams that do this captain and that sort of thing? None of them won the Super Bowl. So you tell me it works. Right? Yeah. I need more than this. I need more than just hopping it because you think, yeah, because you admire this team. So what? I admire my whole team. That's the difference between me. I don't care about what the rest of the league is doing. I don't care about what Philadelphia is doing.

I never cared about what the face is we're doing. We went there, we're cheating. Did I think the Bengals should cheat? I'm like, no, we probably messed it up. Probably not the best idea. To me, top of the coach, Peyton Manning, no, we probably shouldn't do that. That's difficult. I didn't want to lose in the first time in the playoffs a bunch, be ridiculed for it, and then finally, after a while, after 10 plus years, you know, we win a tough Super Bowl.

We look at you differently. No, I look at you the same. It's like my brand name. You think I'm going to forget he lost? In the final six, seven times? Why don't I forget that? Why don't you forget that in the end, you're a loser? In the end, you are. You won some, you just won a lot. So, say baseball, I struck out seven times, but I got three hits. I'm a 300-year-old. I'm an all-famer. Okay. It's all right. It's cool. Whatever makes you happy.

Whoever you think we should have thought of you. Guess what? How come no one ever said we should top you in the Chiefs?

Huh? I think. how come nobody said you copy the cheese yeah i'm not gonna say we should copy the chief model, i've never heard nobody say that i ain't never heard it either guess what that makes more sense to me than captain ethics anthony okay copying it makes more sense hold on hold on i gotta throw this one in there what about the what about the them picks uh mom hey hey look hey look. Here's the thing. The really good thing, though, the draft doesn't matter. It shouldn't matter.

The really, really good team, if you're depending on the draft, that means you're not one of the teams. You ain't one of the teams. You ain't done enough. The draft is not important as the players on the team. does not... If I have to stand alone on that, then I will stand alone. 2021 was not, was that shifted by the drafts of that year? Was that the reason? No, it wasn't. Show fucking Burrell. Can we draft it and win? Say, yeah, with more.

Because we were really bad. It's the reason. If you got a draft player, then they have to forge your team ahead. It's like, your team is bad.

I'm looking around on this team, I'm like, well, okay, if you want to just go by comparison just because, the team on defense was in the bottom bottom, third, fourth of the league the bottom fourth of the league that automatically this team is in the bottom that ain't where we gonna start out we start out even hopefully we start out healthy, you can't say it's the same defense, it's not it's not saying coordinator not

saying defense on our coach not even necessarily the same guys not all of them, I can figure it right now the way it is. We're going can we at least play an entire healthy game with these guys first where we totally say that oh man we gotta get drafted wait a minute, so what you're saying is all the guys that you put so what fans are saying is the guys that we praise we're not going to praise them anymore though right, Forget Logan Wilson now, right? Right? Forget him now.

We're going to forget that he got hurt. I didn't forget. I had something to do with it. Forget B.J. Hill, right? He did get injured a couple times. Forget the fact that, yeah, they're going to a season now without Sam Hubbard for the first time in a while. Sam Shappell's hurt the whole year. No, we're going to forget all that, though. Miles Murphy didn't play, and we had injuries. Wait a minute. Why does that make sense, Anthony?

With all the injuries I mentioned, you don't think Murphy should have probably played every single game and played like damn the whole game? I think he should have. He didn't. That's confusing to me, isn't it? That's confusing to you? Doesn't that confuse you? They have Miles Murphy, Chris Jenkins, and Kelly Jackson. They probably played a lot because the team was just so beat up on that particular part of the team, which is the reason why everybody says we need defensive linemen.

Like, no, can we just have a defensive lineman that should play play? That would be nice. Actually, it would be more important than whoever we draft, by the way. I think that's largely What costed What costed Lou Anirumo His job as the DC, Yeah remember in 2021 He just played everybody He didn't care, He was not any better I'm sure saying than we got now We wasn't as deep then As we were now I'm confused now What you mean during battle can't pick up the

system He played 10 fucking games with Ricky Right Right? Yes. These are the things I'm like, no, at some point that probably has to be changed in. Because I'm like, you can't tell me if I'm going to come off injuries better than that or he can't be. It's not possible. I loved him back. I wanted him for the better leadership. I wanted Hilton back for his leadership. I didn't necessarily want him back because I thought they were better than the guys that we drafted to take their place.

That's kind of the reason why we got him on the team. We didn't draft him just because, well, you know what? We're going to just draft safeties and stuff. We're never going to play them, though. Like, no, that's what we used to do. We used to do that. Dude we planned for a little bit. You know what? Nah, I'm going to go back to the better guys. Just never turn back. Even though they're not working. Even though they're not playing well.

They're going to figure it out. Figure it out what though. That's my thing, right? When you look out there and you see them first five, six games, you see Geno Stone being, you know, I mean, he just, I don't know. He was out there. He wasn't doing much. Then you see the difference, right? Once he figured out this system, right, towards the end, where he was making plays all over the place every week, right? Yeah.

But had he not I had him and everyone else not played so poorly, so up and down in the first half of the year. I'm like, well, look, what we're doing, we had to concentrate so much on trying to stop the run, right, because of injury. I'm like, well, that actually makes sense. Once we started losing guys, it was a sieve. It was like, we didn't have confidence to play the other guys. I'm like, but you ain't no choice.

There's no choice. We're losing games where it didn't take, you know, It didn't take, like, the best defense in the league type. It's a, can you get two or three spots in a row? The answer was no. I'm like, wait a minute. Something's wrong here. Something's wrong here. Even our really, really bad teams could figure out doing the course of a couple games to get two, three stops. It was almost like we said, and you mentioned this too, it's like the offense couldn't play to perfection every week.

But damn me we had a lot of games where we damn near did where we damn near played some protection where any other year any other team, any other time we just couldn't find a way.

Couldn't find a way to win these games even though we were killing everybody's defense and I kept saying it, that's the reason why I kept having so much confidence and so much faith, despite how bad defense was playing I figured if it played anywhere decent, and it did then we're not going to lose a game and went 5-0 because the defense wasn't like lights out. Nope. They vent a little bit. They called a turnover here and there.

In the first five games, I'll think, dude, did we have a turnover? I don't even remember. I'm like, well, damn. Okay, Craig, you had 17 and a half sacks. You should have 10 fumbles for us. That'd be nice. Right? I know the side was, yeah, five sacks, something like that. I don't think he had any four crumbles. I'm like, wait a minute. Wait a minute. I need you to you know, not just look good and all that, but,

Pittsburgh. Why didn't Tram inside for that game? They threw the football way more than I expected. So Tillis ran the ball 20 times the whole game. I said, no. See, this is where Lou comes in the play here. I'm like, Lou, we actually got Pittsburgh to do the one thing that I thought would be the way to beat them in a wild shootout. And I think they'd be able to keep pace. They did, though. Four and a yard. He didn't do that. Right? He didn't do that. that made three, four years.

But look at it this way. Look at it this way. They needed all of them. They needed that. They needed all of them. He plays normally, they get blown out. Lamar Jackson plays any type of off game, either roll time. They lose both games. Right? If Jalen Williams doesn't have probably the greatest game in his career, we said we beat them because we were killing them. I said we would. I was not worried. Just think. You're watching the Washington Americans had.

Payne, Allen, and Newton. All in there. And they still couldn't stop us. At all. We did whatever we wanted. That 30 points you scored in there, it should have been more. We had some opportunity to go. Damn, you'd think the defense could somehow just a little bit, right? Just a little bit. Be able to figure out, okay, they're not running complex shit. Let's not give this kid time to just run around. I'm like, no, you probably should blitz him early. It's no reason to, right?

If it's fourth and two, you show a blitz. They call it time out. That's like in basketball when you show the play, right? You don't run the same fucking play, right? You don't run the exact same blitz. Yeah, because you'd be stupid to do so. Well, you'd be stupid to run the same blitz again. I'm like, why would you do that? You seem to make change before basically. Like, if they run this play here, It's going to work. I'm like, but there's no reason to blitz then at that point, right?

When the only thing that beats you is a touchdown at that point, you don't have to do that. If you want to play zone, then that's the time you play zone when, you know, you can give up some yards without a touchdown. Then we play against Baltimore.

Play so much zone against Baltimore, I was really confused. I'm like, wait, no. The key with man defense is you don't need as much pressure, you don't need as much with zone, if you ain't got no pressure, you're dead you'll never stop anybody never, you'll never stop anybody.

Right but when you know just like the other team knows where that pressure is going to come from and who that school that is they got to tell the team I'm like I don't understand like I don't get why we playing so much zone when we can't we can't normally in a situation, apply you know consistent pressure so I'm going to be the last thing I run you'll be playing man-a-man that's fine the whole entire secondary, outside of Gino's zone, is a better man-to-man player than zone.

Every single one of them is better than man-to-man. It ain't even close. We drafted all these corners to play man-to-man. We didn't draft Big Moon to be a zone corner. He isn't. Can't tell it. In Nebraska, they never played no zone. And look at Michigan. Look at Michigan. You know them. Michigan is a man's game. They always have been. So in other words. That's why Dats who played slot corner.

He wants to play no zone so in other words, and I think you touched on an interesting topic that I don't want to necessarily give up go too much into it because you and I already talked about it and I think we want to save that for a later episode we probably will cover it this week.

Normally but normally I pretty much normally it's kind of a back and forth between you and I but, for today's episode i kind of let you cook because you were touching on a lot of great things that like hey i really couldn't contest if i wanted to because i agreed with you, my thing is like some of this stuff that i don't know why it doesn't get brought up a lot of people say you wouldn't even eat your egos i'm like they're not

going to do that's the one thing to me yeah and now here's the thing that i will say when it comes to the whole thing with Cap Gymnastics, the whole idea of Cap Gymnastics. I think in certain cases, it's okay to go ahead and explore it. Explore it if you, like if you're, because we've had years where we've maybe been a guy, a person or two, we've been a person or two out from really being able to put the team over the top.

Or you've seen other cases where other teams have been, like, a few players, like, one or two players away. And maybe to make a trade or something of that sort. But a lot of teams, and this is the thing I tell people all the time, a lot of teams really don't typically trade their draft picks. Or at least their high-end draft picks. Like the mid to late round picks. like the 4th, 5th, 4th through 7th.

Usually they'll be a little more willing to part with a few of those, but in most cases, a lot of these teams are really typically trying to hold on to their draft picks.

I think the fuck them draft picks, that got started by the Rams, and I think after 2021 getting their Super Bowl and then 2022 them not making the playoffs, You haven't seen that since, Because that wasn't We all knew that wasn't A sustainable model to go off of, But the fact that they Won a Super Bowl, folks will say that it worked It worked in the short term It worked once That's what it did It worked once It shouldn't have worked.

In theory, let's be honest No, it shouldn't have worked Because we still kicked their ass By the way, shouldn't have worked But the fact that it did Right, They won a whole decade without giving a shit about Fucking drafts They didn't care But you know what they did though, You know what they did. They built the fucking team from year to year. They built the team. They didn't need a bunch of draft picks.

That's the thing. I keep telling everybody, listen, when you need a bunch of draft picks, that means you got, that means, one, you're a bad team, and two, two, you're years away. We ain't years away from nothing. We're not years away. If folks want to go all in this year, that's fine. Then, hell, we shouldn't even worry about signing trade in.

What does that matter? You can't say one thing and then do the other. I'm not going to let nobody get away with saying one thing contrary to the other because there are two different things that go all in you wouldn't sign for anything then if you want to get you want to get two guards you can't do all of that you can't sign everybody back and get guards and right and that's the thing that I think that us as fans need to realize that because from the reports that I've read,

it sounds like Trey wants the Rays to take effect this year. He doesn't want it to take effect next year. He wants it to take effect this year and then add a few more years on top of it. I think what it boils down to, and this is something that we all have to take into consideration, with the current rate of where we're at right now, we're less than two weeks from the draft. And with us being less than two weeks away from the draft, we got to be able to sign our rookies.

And then on top of that, everybody beating the table to get a veteran guard or two. They want them right now, too. And the thing is, and I'm going to throw this out there, so do not take this the wrong way. This has meant... The whole idea of this conversation is to offer, a different perspective to consider, and if it doesn't change your mind and you completely agree, that's okay. If you completely disagree, that is okay.

You're entitled to how you choose to think, but the thing is that we all have to consider. We're sitting at about 25 million in available cap space. 25 million, give or take. We're going to need anywhere from 8 to about 15 million to sign all of our draft picks. If you're wanting to also sign a veteran guard on a one-year deal, on a one-year or two-year basis, you're going to have to have some money left over.

You can't do that and be able to get off her tray like $30 million because then what comes next? You're going to have to either get a number of guys to turn around and take, to be willing to restructure their contracts and, y'all might say some of y'all might say have people take pay cuts don't nobody need to take no pay cut necessarily, my thing is who.

You know they're going to throw you know they're going to throw Joe up sure but he don't have to do that no more he don't have to do that You don't have to keep doing that. You don't have to. It's unreasonable. It's unreasonable. Okay, so we do this, right? We do this this year, right? We spend all this money, and things don't take a fake that, right? We get finished in all this money, right?

It's going to be Henderson's time to take a pay cut soon as well that's going to happen that ain't what I want to do that's not what I want to do I don't want to play this Russian roulette thing every year and I think but guess what, why not just take a little less now and not worry about it because what did I say well but the thing is but it also goes back remember what did I say the end goal was right, where you get your money back okay whatever you thought you didn't make,

win the Super Bowl right normally you know creation you can take off that helmet right get in front of a camera yeah I'm a Super Bowl win you know even then since I didn't make there you go because you know right now no money but the thing is right and here's more right no one's doing that, No, I get that, but here's where I'm summing it up at. Where it all basically boils down to, the Bengals.

You're either going to have to you're either going to turn around and you're going to have to have some people be willing to do some contract restructures, or you're going to turn around and have to cut a lot of people.

And that could be any of your top earners. That could be By golly that could be That could be, I don't know they could turn around and cut Gusecki I don't want them cutting Gusecki I think Gusecki's good for this system They could turn around and cut Orlando Brown They could turn around and cut anybody, They could At the end of the day I look back and say At the end Don't you think it's a bad look When you sign somebody to a free of the contract And you gotta cut them.

Why is that good for business? Why is that good for the team? It's not. It can't be. It doesn't make sense to me. That's almost to a detriment. That's a detriment of everybody. If it might take you, that's okay, then, look, I don't know why I'm having discussion with you. It's almost to a point where there's no reason for us to have a discussion. Because I said the one thing, the one thing it can't do, it can't affect the entire team. If it affects the entire team, then it's a no-go for me, Dan.

I'm always going to vote for no. I'm going to vote for the team, team first. No one individual player is more important than the entire team, because obviously, if they were, we would have won the Super Bowl by now, but they're not. There's no player outside the organization already that we could get, I think, would even help win the Super Bowl. It wouldn't be important. Sheriff would be. Sheriff, if we signed him, he wouldn't be in the top 10 most important players on the.

Him to be so so why is it so important to get them so why is it so important to to appear to be but i think moving forward some of that when when we already moving forward by not having a leading season but i think some of that though is off of manette is off of name alone, i'm not see my thing is this i get it i get it man there's just names but years they pile up next year, just remember we signed Terrence Kappa and Lionel Collins in the same year you look around now it's only Kappa left,

I mean only Terrence left. At some point he's going to need to be replaced as well it is what it is it would be a sad day it ain't going to ruin my life the team will continue on it'll still be a contender every, month as it is before but the thing is the thing is okay yeah you want to do all this you want to spend all this money and tap it. We've all seen that that hasn't been the actual successful model it actually hasn't worked for this team,

It hasn't worked in 2021. It hasn't worked. And you're not wrong. Usually when you ask too much money, it's just too much money. It is what it is. Now, I get it. I'm sure we can get it done. You think they'll somehow get it worked out? I just don't know that it's going to be this year. I think that's the premise I'm pretty much at. The thing is, it's not important for me for it to get done this year.

The only person on the team that it was important to get a deal done with Tiggins is because until he signed the damn franchise, he could have left. And it was everywhere that he was right to leave. Nobody else. Nobody else. Can't go anywhere unless we want you to. This isn't early 2000s where someone's going to sit out like you're making nothing, which is not true. It's not true.

If you franchise trade next year, which I hate talking about next year because if we even, to me, if you even bring this up, next year it would be ridiculous. If we ain't won the Super Bowl, I'm just going to be mad. Maybe angry. But that's, you know, that's every year. Right? Okay, here. I'm going to do a quick scenario here. Quick scenario. I want this in the comments, too. So if Frey doesn't have 17 and have sacks, should we pay him more than what he's asking for now?

Should we meet his demands? Should we say, you know what, Frey? Is the thing is that you know you didn't have the year that you thought right this is gonna have so we're gonna offer you the rest no i think we should do the same should be the same no matter what i think no matter but the thing is that we don't know what number he's asking for but i know that's the thing a lot of the things is all right yeah so right that's why this this this whole argument is just that it's just it just.

But it isn't it's like we're not going to ever tell people how to fan, we're not telling people how to be fans no we just want people to look at things with. A open and rational mindset nah you can be irrational here's my thing ask him the question is he not fan 14 I think he is I don't see no way he ain't He's playing the whole year. I don't see him missing a damn game. If he held he out there every game. That's all I care about, honestly. I don't care about next year.

I'm not – it ain't my thing. I don't – you know, I pay to go to the game. I pay to watch. Next year, I'll worry about that next year. Right? Yeah. It'll actually be more important next year. It'll be a topic that I want to talk about more. I actually want to talk about this rest. This is like Tiggins, but it's not. The difference is, with T, with all the high-paid bridges we found before this year, he wasn't really any, right? He wasn't really. He didn't really do any of that.

So it kind of has an ebb and flow. It's an ebb and flow each year. Yeah. Don't get me wrong. There are some fans out there that want us to just like, it's almost like they want us to disregard the players that are up for free agency, unless it's one of the favorites that they like to go out and get everybody else's free agents. I'm like, well, there's reasons why people are free agents, right? There's lots of different reasons. Sometimes you ain't as good as you are. That's all.

Yeah. We're not alone with that. Well, with that being said, we've been on for an hour and 43 minutes. So I think at this point we've touched on quite a bit. Was there any final thoughts that you wanted to add? before we close out the show. Here we go. Dumpter outside your apartment complex, right? Just like I do. Why would I come digging around in your dumpter and I got one right there? Let me end it out. I wouldn't. I'll just dig out of my own. I'm not going to walk way over there.

You ain't even that far from me. I could literally walk from my house and his house. People don't understand it. I literally could. I probably wouldn't unless I had to, but I could. But I wouldn't walk over there anyway. Driving this since you've left 10 minutes away from me. I don't want to be way over there going. You're dumb. I just go at my list right there. That's what I say about signing a free agent.

Look, for one, normally, depending on how your year goes, it's harder to sign your own free agent back. Why is none of them commending this except me? I am on the top of this list of saying, hell, I don't care about that. I don't care. Look, the draft to me, so it's fun, but it's not even important to me.

And important to me because no one will be draft nobody, because we're not in the top 10 of the draft right so none of them guys are even in the top 10 of freaking most important players unless someone slips that shouldn't. And I said that last year. Like, none of the guys that we drafted last year were important until what? Injuries happened. Yeah. Because none of the draft picks really were more important than any guys already on the team until they started getting hurt.

Mims was not as important until Trent Brown got hurt. McKinley's last name, Jenkins didn't have to play. They weren't going to play as much until Rankin's got sick and B.J. Hill got hurt. The bad thing is that both of them were hurt too. I said, well, that's not good to have them hurt at the same time. It's not good. Then when they came back, they should have played a lot. They didn't. Lesson learned. We made a move.

Defensively, usually from one year to the next, it's not a copy and paste. You know, right? This is what I said. On offense, we don't start off where we were. We started new. It's not defense. The defense isn't bad. We don't know what it is. Rice, who can say the defense is laughing defense? You can't say that. Nobody can. That doesn't make sense to me. As a fan, look, that's crazy. That's crazy. That's crazy talk.

That's like saying, well, our team's 9 and 8. Is it? No, it ain't say the game, man. It's 0 and 0. You can project. You can say what you think. We don't start off at the bottom of the defense. We start off zero like every other team in the league.

And some things that remade the whole defense you can't say it, we don't know where they are I got an idea where we can be healthy, I got an idea, I have an idea I say it'll be the best defense in the league no, it would be nice, that'd be great that'd be a great story the rest of you, I'm sure someone out there would come on, on YouTube or on their podcast and say that they predicted it and not say you're a lie but you're a damn lie but you know, I mean.

You didn't need shit, Anthony. He holds us out. To put a final blow on this whole thing. Right? Yep, we're better with them than without them. Good thing we're not without them. True. So, I mean, you know, so let that be the last thing. Good thing for one year we don't worry about it. So with that being said, we definitely want to thank you, the listeners, for listening in, for listening to today's episode of the Rule the Jungle podcast.

Also, if you haven't checked it out We did do a collab With the Bengals and Brews Podcast show On YouTube, so definitely make sure You go check them out On YouTube at Bengals and Brews, Absolutely, those guys are good Buddies of ours So if you go over and you check them out And you like what they're doing, make sure you follow them too Because they do a fantastic job With not only being very Entertaining and making making you laugh and things of that sort but also just giving good good bangles

content as far as giving their thoughts on the happenings of that that's going around but we were supposed to do a record a show for our podcast but we were having technical difficulties on the pod bean so we took they let us come on their show and we took over there we took over their show for for the day so, basically to make a long story short go check them out we really enjoyed, we really had a great time with collabing with them.

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