The Besties of 2024

This year has been one for the ages. Frequently contrary to expectations, sometimes to all expectations, full of innovations that have changed the nature of human thought and creativity, chat GBT anyone, challenges to our assumptions, challenges for all of us at points worthy of an x prize. There were truly artful moments and others were risky. But if we were paying attention, we got better at calculating risks. We treasured optimism and those who could bring it in twenty twenty four.

And, yes, despite election obsession, nonpartisan fools like me wanna point out through occasional turmoil, the dividend still got paid every quarter, and we were all reminded once again that it's the company that you keep that probably best explains where you're going, your future. These are thoughts both timely and timeless. What a year. And I'm only just talking about this podcast. Movies have their Oscars. Television has its Emmys. Music has its Grammys. And Broadway, it's Tony's.

I'm not really sure what podcasts have, but the one podcast I know best anyway, this podcast has its besties. You deserve it. We deserve it. The stars are back looking at this year's work together, looking ahead to twenty twenty five, all tied up in a bow for you. Is this actually the best podcast every year? The besties of twenty twenty four only on this week's Rule Breaker Investing. It's the Rule Breaker Investing podcast with Motley Fool cofounder David Gardner.

Welcome back to this possibly the most special edition of Rule Breaker Investing this year. Cameos for many of my best guests this year reflecting back and looking forward. It's our besties of twenty twenty four. I've identified ten of my favorite podcasts that we brought you this year. These are not ordered. These are not ranked in any way, shape, or form.

But looking back and thinking through the roster of the fifty podcasts we've done so far in fifty weeks this year, I thought, what are ten that stand out to me? Probably to you. And why not talk briefly about them, and when possible, have some voices return to share some reflections both about the year that was and the year that will be. Now, again, these are not ranked.

And of the forty podcasts that are not included here, I wouldn't want anybody to think that I didn't think they were really great too. I love all my children, but you can only fit so much in a besties. And just like the Oscars and Emmys and Grammys and Tonys in the end, you have to pick only one. Or here, only ten. And, of course, a big reason for doing the besties every year is to encourage you if you didn't hear any of these ten podcasts. In fact, to go back and listen.

I think you'll really be educated, amused, and enriched. Now before I get started, I wanna mention next week's podcast, and that's the Market Cap Game Show. Emily Flippen and longtime full producer, Mac Greer, will be here competing in America's twenty seventh favorite game show. I don't think we're in the top twenty five anyway. But for investors, I hope we're number one.

So get the wood in the fireplace, invite the in laws over, time for warm cider, traditional or hard, and light it up with us next week with the Market Cap Game Show holiday edition to help you close out the year. That's the second last podcast of this year. But let me, in particular, also mention our last podcast of the year, which is, of course, your mailbag. The reason I'm underlining that is because we're recording both of those podcasts that I just mentioned early next week.

That way, Des and I can enjoy our holidays, and you can too knowing that we're bringing you awesome podcasts to close the year, but we're doing them ahead of time. So we have extra time with family and friends. And, thus, if you'd like to be featured on the year end mailbag, you need to write to us right away. We're recording that next week, so we'll need to hear from you now or right after finishing this week's podcast or over the weekend. Anyway, did I get it right with my besties picks?

Did I overlook a gem? Did one of my all star guests improve your life this year? And do you have a story for us? The email address is r b I at fool dot com, r b I at fool dot com. And, of course, you can also tweet us at r b I podcast. So to summarize, next week, the market cap game show the week after the year end mailbag, but we need to hear from you right away if you'd like to be considered for the mailbag.

And now, ladies and gentlemen and fools everywhere, the red carpet has been rolled out. You are invited. And we welcome you to this year's Rule Breaker Investing podcast, besties, complete with our own theme music chosen especially by my producer, Des Jones. Des, thank you for your great first year with this podcast. I know the process for selecting the theme music for our besties can be onerous, sometimes multilayered.

One of the bigger challenges in the world of entertainment, if I may, the besties theme music each year. Des, I'm wondering how you came up with this, the process. What did we end up with? We're here to look at the harmonies. I'm thinking about the the different instruments, a lot of different families of instruments, so we had to break it down and really build it back up. So it it was definitely a process.

And, Dez, you're somebody who is I think you're a professional caliber performer on the viola. Is there a viola included in this year's besties music? Not this time around, but I can't make any promises on the next time. So time will tell. And, okay, we'll both come clean because this year's besties music was actually provided by longtime listener Eric Devore.

Those who were listening in August two of investing in the fools I sing will remember Eric, a professional composer who's done music for film, TV, and video games, and is a longtime rule breaker listener, provided us a ten and a half second clip, which, Dez, I think you and I will be rocking throughout these these besties. So shout out ahead of time to Eric Devore.

That's Eric with a k at Eric Devore on Twitter x. Eric, thank you for being a long time fool and, yeah, for providing free music for us for the besties this year. Bestie number one this year goes to Optimism with Bill Burke, which debuted on April third twenty twenty four. Now what made that episode stand out was how it blended real world experience with inspiring research backed perspectives.

Bill's explanation of optimism versus hope using his beloved Detroit Lions, who've never made a Super Bowl, was not only amusing but also showed a nuanced understanding of realism and optimism. He went a step further describing how our brains are plastic and malleable, like working out at a gym. We can train our minds toward positivity as neuroscientist Richard Davidson has shown.

It's it's this combination of personal anecdote, science, and humor that made the conversation both timeless and timely. Add to that Bill's vivid portrayal of immigrant optimism exemplified by a chance encounter with a Korean Uber driver in New York, and the episode became a lesson in perspective. Just as his years at the Weather Channel taught him that no one cheers for forecasters when they get it right, only when they're wrong, Bill reminds us that people often focus on the negative.

Yet, by staying alert to small acts of kindness in the streets of Manhattan, we can rediscover our shared humanity and realize how often our weather forecasts, our fellow citizens, and indeed our world do get things right. This uplifting message couldn't be more relevant in a world anxious for reasons to believe again. And the man himself is back to join with you and me here at the end of twenty twenty four.

Bill Burke, thank you for that podcast we did back in April, and welcome back to Rule Breaker Investing. It is so great to be back, and I love that trip down memory lane. I've forgotten some of those things. And I also appreciate the gift of being able to mention the Detroit Lions. Now back in April, would I know they'd be twelve and one? Right? Twelve and one. My my bio on our website says he's a lifelong optimist, parenthesis. He has to be. He's a Detroit Lions fan.

And at some point, I might have to change it. This is just crazy. I think you're right. Maybe that point is now, Bill. This would not be the first time that a galvanic moment occurred on a Bestie's podcast where somebody made a commitment to change the course of the future. This is it. I owe it to you. Who knew? I have two I have two questions for you, Bill Burke. Ones I'll be asking my talented guests throughout this hour.

Any further reflections since on that podcast we did together or on optimism in the world at large? Sure. In fact, you just hit on it when you said the lions because we also talked about the tigers. And in real time, in that interview, you helped me crystallize my thinking about hope versus optimism. And and the the the analogy we used was or the example was if the Tigers are down by nine runs in the ninth inning with two outs, I'm not very optimistic, but I still have hope.

If the lions are down by nine points with two seconds left, neither am I optimistic nor do I have any hope. It's physically impossible. So that I that has really stuck with me. And you and I, like, worked it through. It was like a therapy session. It was great. And, it's really it's really helpful way to think about it. And it also helped me understand part of the romance of baseball. There's always that hope as long as there's an out left.

It's a timeless game without a clock except a pitch clock. So that was just it really stuck with me, which was which was something. And that sticks with me too. And thank you for bringing that back because I think a lot of us listening to us right now, appreciate sports. We we often make sports analogies on Rule Breaker Investing. I'm not saying you have to love sports to listen to this podcast, but it's extra fun if you do.

And so even when I have a friend, we're just talking about optimism, there we end up on sports and that analogy is so perfect, Bill, because you were right. And that was your contribution on that April third podcast. I hadn't really thought about that before even though I've watched any number of baseball and football games over the course of my fifty eight years. Yes. But it's true that baseball is such a sport full of hope, if not optimism, because you can always hope with one more out spared.

You can always hope we can come back and so appreciate that point. Bill, what's a wish, an interesting thought, or a prediction? A wish, an interesting thought, or a prediction that you have for the year twenty twenty five. I'm gonna go with a wish that might be an interesting prediction. How about that? Do it. I have a feeling that twenty twenty five will be the first year in many that we actually cut back on our use of social media and news consumption.

And I'll tell you why I think that. A few reasons. I think for younger people, I think Jonathan Haidt has created a legitimate or has contributed at least mightily to a legitimate movement to really think about social media, smartphones, and our kids, and we're seeing momentum behind that. And I have to say I've I've that's when I've actually studied a fair amount both anecdotally and reading these books, and I think he's really on to something.

And I also believe that on the other side of this election, and I know I've talked to enough people, so this is all anecdotal, but I think people have said, okay, I'm exhausted. I can't do this anymore. I can't keep this up. I can't study everything that comes out of candidate x's mouth or candidate y's for that. I can't do it. I have to take a break. I've got to get my sanity back. And my prediction, my hopeful prediction, because I think this would be a good thing for all of us.

I actually think our consumption's gonna drop next year. And, that is my bold prediction for twenty twenty five, and it is an optimistic one because I think it'd be a good thing for all of us. Well, coming from you, that means a lot, and I agree. It is bold. It'll be interesting to to I don't know if you're actually scoring that, like, if you have a single metric in mind that you'll be eyeing. I don't. Let's come up with I I don't know where I can measure.

I don't I don't know who forecast that or who who publicizes that, but maybe Let's just go with the performance of Meta Platform stock. I don't know. But but we want that to go up even though people are gonna be using it less. Keeping stocks out of it. I want I want metrics of usage. You're right. You're right. Well, you can think about that, and that's your domain. We don't need to have an answer for that now.

I really appreciate that thought, though, and I I I agree, on the studies and the work being done, especially about cutting smartphones out of schools and school use, which is starting to take root in, some states or at least some jurisdictions, and that's really interesting as well. Anyway, Bill Burke, what a delight it was to spend this time together here at the end of twenty twenty four, and I look forward to checking back, shall we, sometime in twenty twenty five?

I would love that, David. It's always a great pleasure. Full on, my friend. Thank you. Bestie number two goes to calculating risk foolishly volume number three, Kinsale versus Chewy. It appeared on January twenty fourth much earlier this year. The podcast had two analysts join me.

We went through my twenty five point risk framework, a framework that teaches rule breaker investors to do something most other investors and even professional analysts rarely do, and that is put a risk rating on a stock. You know, an actual number backed by a framework like seven or thirteen instead of just saying a stock is, one of my least favorite phrases, medium risk, whatever that means.

Calculating risk is something we've done on the show only two other times in the past, first shared in two thousand sixteen, then once again in twenty twenty one. And it's always a pleasure to invite in two Motley Fool analysts to help take us through the twenty five point risk rating framework. In this case, it was Motley Fool chief investment officer Andy Cross looking at Kinsale and Motley Fool analyst and adviser Emily Flippen looking at Chewy.

In fact, spoiler alert, we're gonna hear from Andy a little bit later this show, and we're gonna hear from Emily next week on the market cap game show. But there were three great things about this episode. I think the first is a tangible method. So, again, instead of vague words like medium risk, we got a clear numerical risk rating.

We took something fuzzy and made it real and applied it to Chewy, a very popular stock among Motley Fool members, and Kinsale, a very interesting stock among Motley Fool members, one well liked, just not as much of a consumer brand name. The second thing I think that was great about this episode was, yeah, two different companies, but the same system. So we tackled both Kinsale and Chewy, but we use the same risk framework and applied them to two wildly different stocks.

And the third and final thing I wanna underline, it was a listener empowering week, January twenty fourth, because by the end, everyone listening knew how to rate risk themselves and why that matters. So we're turning theory into the practical everyday investing skill of thinking about and estimating risk, something that matters to all of us. I do wanna, before we move on, define briefly how I think about risk.

Risk for me can mean many things, but when we talk about the stock market, individual stocks, risk is the chances of you losing a substantial portion of your original investment over a meaningful amount of time. So a lot of people tend to think about risk as volatility, the beta so called of a stock and its movements. I've always disagreed. I think the risk we're trying to avoid is that we would lose a lot of our money holding for a long period of time.

That's really deadening to a portfolio's performance. So that's what risk is, and that's what we're rating with our calculating risk volume three framework. So this one goes home a winner, and that's why it's bestie number two. Bestie number three happened in mid September of this year when Rand Stegen joined me to discuss long term leadership, business, and life.

Founder of Stegen Leadership Academy, Rand Stegen shows us that meaningful transformation in business, investing, and life requires patient, continuous effort far beyond quick fixes. And by treating leadership growth like a long term investment, Rand's approach parallels successful stock investing. What we talk about all the time on this podcast, compounding returns built up over decades rather than chasing short term wins.

What wins in investing also wins in business, and Rand urges leaders to integrate purpose with profit. See compassion and authenticity not as soft extras, but as strategic essentials that elevate both performance and humanity. And in fact, one of my favorite exchanges with Rand was was when he was talking about how people want a quick fix.

Like business leaders will approach him hoping he'll work on a two day program where he he and his team come in at their off-site and provide leadership advice that will build trust. And Rand, what I remember you saying is, seriously? Do that in two days? Welcome back to Rand Stegen. Rand, congratulations on your bestie. Alright. Well, I was smiling as you were telling that last piece of the story.

And before we begin, I want to extend my, my gratitude for being included in this prestigious award. I I thought that during the summer when I brought the Stegen faculty together for our annual team retreat in Dallas, and we had a, we had a very serious competition as an organization. It was a forty yard dash. I participated. I was so proud to win my age group, even though I was the only one in the above fifty age group.

And I thought, David, that was gonna be the highlight of twenty twenty four. But no. Winning a bestie will now go down for me as the highlight. You're inspiring me to think that we need to make this hardware at some point. I'm sorry. It's just virtual. Oh, I thought I was gonna get something in the mail. I'm very disappointed. Well, as long as the music for the twenty twenty four besties, outdoes the twenty twenty three music, which was fabulous, I am, I'm I will be fine. Owen, clearly, it has.

And listeners, since you're number three, already will recognize that. I'm quite sure, Rand, I had two first of all, we had a great exchange just near the end of that podcast on September eleventh of this year where you shared some of your favorite quotes, which I thought were wonderful, and I'm hoping maybe you'll bring one or two, maybe just one as you wish, back here. But I do have my two questions for you first. Are you ready? I'm ready.

Alright. First question for you. Rand Stegen, what is a reflection you've since had, albeit about three months later, about that podcast that we did together or more broadly about leadership. Take it any way you want. Well, you opened up this, this segment with the acknowledgment that those who are listening are obviously fans of compounding as I am and our, our organization is, is an advocate for.

And you talked about how the same principles of creating compounding returns and investing show up in business. And what I want to bring in that we didn't get a chance to talk about in September is that those same principles have the, have the context in life too. So it's not just investing, it's not just business, it's also life. And when we think about the timelessness of these principles, we did not have a chance to go back into the truly long arc of time in our first conversation.

And if we had the time to do that, I guess pun intended, we would have talked about the Greeks, and we would have talked about how they had a recognition of the two types of time. Kronos, chronological time, that horizontal time that we live our lives by when we're in that sort of rat race and that's, the scrambling nature of urgency versus the vertical version of time that they called kairos. And they would refer to that as divine time.

Some people might think about it as God's time or even timeless time. And so I realized we didn't get a chance to go back far enough, a few thousand years at least. That is a wonderful reflection. And, you know, a key theme of this year's besties is the timely and the timeless, and I didn't even prompt you with that. In fact, it just started emerging naturally through this week's show. And so you've beautifully spoken to something I hadn't even prepared you to do.

That's called synchronicity, my friend. That's right. We're like we're like we're you and all of us, we're in a jazz, ensemble right now, and it's just, it's just it's just emerging. And so, so I'm gonna bring in a, I'm gonna bring in a quote. It's a short one. And this is from John c Bogle, that I guess most of your listeners will know is the founder of Vanguard. And, we lost him, I guess, several years ago.

But his quote, which is a new one, which been added to my list since September, time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. What do you think he meant by impulse? I think that he meant the impulsiveness of seeing stocks go down and becoming captured by fear and panic and actually pulling out of the market when times are tough and, and chasing when times are good.

And, as so as as so as the pattern, buying high and selling low is what most, most investors, ultimately, you know, create for themselves when they're being driven by reactivity and impulsiveness. That's my interpretation. So well put, Rand. And, you know, there is synchronicity electrifying this week's podcast now because we just did it. The third form of time, I'm making that up. Synchronicity. Synchronicity.

I was just checking because what longtime listeners of this podcast will remember, Jack Bogle on this podcast. In fact, let me look at it. Yep. It was two thousand sixteen December. It was this very week in December of two thousand sixteen. Love letter to Jack Bogle was the title of that week's podcast, and Jack got wind of it. And we reached out to each other, and he came on for an interview the very next week. That was December twenty first two thousand sixteen. Anybody can Google it.

Why we invest plus Jack Bogle interview. So, yeah, a love letter that got an answer, something I'll always appreciate. Wow. What a what an amazing experience. And, as you were describing that idea of a love letter, you know, mother Teresa was once quoted as saying, I am a little pencil in the hand of a writing god sending a love letter to the world.

And it's like, oh, because you think about, you know, so much of the of what we talked about in September and what what we're gonna talk about right now is the idea that there is this there is this dimension of time. And when we're thinking about our investments, we're thinking about our business, when we're thinking about our family, And the kind of choices that we wanna make that is beyond rational thinking. It it requires a faith. It requires a trust.

It requires, in some ways, surrendering to win. The paradox here. Like, how do I surrender to my own let's go back to John Bogle, to my own impulsiveness, to my own reactivity, and how do I actually just relax into the long game? Love it. Losing to win, again, a little bit related to surrendering to win. One of my key themes through this podcast. So, Rand, thank you so much. Yeah. I do wanna reflect that you and I have gotten to spend some time together over the years.

I think, you know, the stock market doubles every seven years on average. So that means if you've been together fourteen years, which I think is about how long I've known you That that's about right. Yeah. At at market pacing, nine to ten percent compounding, that means we're four times better appreciating the other than we did fourteen years ago. I'm looking forward to the next seven and the seven after that. And, Ran, it might even be between you and me.

We might accelerate faster than nine to ten percent. I don't know. I I would like to believe that we are beating that that that average and, and especially that we were together at the conscious capitalism conference. And I I woke up after, after the first night of being there, and I thought to myself, why do I not feel rested? And I was like, I was with David Gardner at one o'clock in the morning being over served wine at the fire pit.

And I actually, I actually think if we spent too much time together, we might actually lower our return. So I think we're right in this optimal place in our relationship right now. Very well said. I am always late night team fire pit, and I so appreciate you were there as well. Rand, let me ask you my parting question, which is thinking of the year ahead now. Rand Stegen, what is a a wish, an interesting thought, or a prediction you have for twenty twenty five? So I'm gonna go with Wish.

So now that we're on the other side of the, presidential election and, oh my gosh, we're still here. The the the civilization's still here. We're the Internet's working. Everything's working. And there was there was such a there was such this catastrophic sort of, predictions. And our country is strong and has a strong foundation.

And my my hope, my wish for, our fellow Americans and really for for those who are struggling with hyperpolarization all around the world is that we can start to see some of the best in each other, especially those that are on opposite sides of issues, instead of only seeing and then amplifying the worst in each other. And that's my my hope is that there's a that our our our shared humanity can actually be a part of the calculus. And and I like disagreeing with people.

I like I we get better through debate. We get better through discourse, and I want to, and I wanna continue to embrace that. But I'd I'd like us to humanize our, quote, opponents a little bit more than we have in the last four years. That is a beautiful wish. And I think wishing is the first step to making something come true. So, Ran, thank you for helping us visualize a better year, twenty twenty five.

I don't know that the stock market will have a better year because it's been a pretty hoppin' twenty twenty four and twenty twenty three, by the way, but I always think the market's going up every year. Rand Stegen, thank you for that thought and for that podcast we did together in September, and I'm looking forward to continued association over the airwaves with you in twenty twenty five. Oh, but I gotta break a rule. I gotta stop you from stopping. I have another prediction.

My prediction is that I will be invited back to the Rule Breaker podcast for a return appearance in twenty twenty five, and that it will be such a good podcast that I will be considered for a bestie once again. And that's my prediction that that's gonna happen. And so, so I'm just gonna you said it all starts with dreaming and hoping, so I think I'm gonna have to just, you know, personalize that and make that part of my manifestation for next year.

You know that I'm honored that you are so focused. You are that focused on that prize. You bring something special to this podcast. Rand, thank you so much. Happy holidays to you, my friend, and see you in twenty twenty five. Happy holidays. Bestie number four proved how rewarding it can be. Occasionally, step off the path, hunting for new places and rule breakery insights. I had wanted for some time to look at art as an investment. What would breaking the rules mean if we're talking about art?

And is art a good investment? Well, in the world of art investing, the artist isn't the sole creator. Our new friend, Tanya Turner Carroll said, and I quote, the artist is only half of the experience. The collector brings the other half, end quote. Tanya and her husband and business partner, Michael Carroll, are both longtime gallery owners and advisors. And on February seventh of this year, they showed us how to up your game when investing in art.

Build relationships with insightful dealers, understand the artist's cultural and historical context, and search out iconic subject matter that speaks in a timely and timeless way. Approaching investing in art in this way can transform a mere purchase into something that resonates deeply and more valuably. Well, the carols are back. Tanya, Michael, first of all, congratulations on your bestie. And even though it's all virtual, there's no fancy artistic hardware, unfortunately, to this award.

If we ever do commission a trophy, guess who I'm calling? Yeah. Wait. Who? Oh, oh, oh, you both. No. We're really happy to be here today. Happy to be here. We're honored to be on the besties. Thank you. And, Tanya and Michael, tell me, where are you right now? We are outside on a collector's beautiful balcony in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. We just wrapped up, the Art Basel Miami week.

And, we were exhibiting for an entire week in Miami, And we are installing right now, painting in a new home in a new friend's home. We have a new collector that we met at the art fair, and we are hanging that artwork on their wall after an Yeah. They made us lunch. We're here. We couldn't be happier. We've been in a big tent for a week, and now I am looking at the water.

So And I truly wish that this were a video podcast because you have the most gorgeous you are high up looking over a gorgeous view of Fort Lauderdale, Florida. Blue skies and, wow. You guys obviously have had a fun week, and congratulations. I know Art Basel is a pretty big deal. Yeah. And, and I know you you I'm sure you made it your playground over the last few days.

Well, Tanya and Michael, I'm gonna ask you the same two questions I'm asking each of our visiting guest stars coming back for our besties. And let me turn to you first, Tanya. Any further reflections since on that podcast we did together or any developments in the art world or in your own thinking? Yes. Actually, I'm glad you asked. We have doing the podcast with you really made us dig deeper into our own practice, as art workers.

And so one thing that we've done is we have, worked to get licensing ourselves on our own team to be able to provide something else that we might not have talked so much about on the podcast earlier. Tell me. It's a member of your team. You know, you need to have a trusted team, a trusted, art adviser who can help you make a good choice, you know, that's personal to you. But you also need to have somebody on the other end of it.

And this is something we've always done, but we haven't been able to articulate it. And that is to make a bridge between the person that has already invested in art and what they do with it when they want to either sell it or donate it to a museum or make it part of their estate planning.

So what we've done is delve into professional appraisal, certification so that we can now track values as they rise and fall every year of certain artists and artworks and identify trends so that we can tell if an artist is on an upward trajectory or a downward. It's kinda like a stock. Yeah. I guess it and and it's important because the art historian I guess, in our organization, I'm the art historian. And I will always tell you that someone like Charles White is somebody that you should buy.

He's an incredible artist. But there are certain times obviously when Charles, the value of a Charles White work is gonna be higher than it will be in a year. And the only way you can know that is to know which museum exhibitions are upcoming, if there are any major auctions that have just happened. Wow. Yeah. And so one thing I would add to what we said previously is that in addition to an art advisor, you need to have an actively engaged appraiser on your team of experts.

That's really wonderful, Tanya. I'm glad both for the personal growth that that sounds like. Like, you're you're trying something new. You're getting bigger with what you're doing, but also connecting it into something that a lot of us would appreciate as investors, which is that you're you've got your finger on the pulse. And, there's some more timely times to buy or to sell than than others.

Michael, let me turn next to you and ask you any further reflections on our podcast or on your twenty twenty four. I am with Tanya on this. It's become more apparent that deaccessioning is almost as important as accessioning. So, you know, we toss the word collector around as as dealers, but it's really anyone who buys a piece of artwork. But how many headlines have you seen lately that say the kids don't want the stuff? Right?

People are up against the, you know, the sunset of the estate tax exemption. So this is all this is all real world stuff. It's not art art world specific. And it's it's very, very clear that more planning needs to be done in a very particular way. Cultural objects aren't cash. It an entire collection of things is not gonna go to one museum. It's just not gonna happen.

The in a in a way, museums do collectors favors by taking their cultural objects because they are promising to keep them in perpetuity. Right? We we as donors think that, oh, you know, we made this great gift and, you know, we're helping out, and and that's true too. But it's an enormous commitment from a museum to take a piece of, you know, art or an antique or an object of some kind. And that process can take years for one object.

Wow. And when you know, I'm I'm guessing that the estate tax exemption is gonna get kicked down the road a bit. It's not gonna close, you know, to be that kind of lower, you know, thirteen or fourteen million dollars for a couple number. However, it's these things play, you know, along with politics, and they're really, really, truly not predictable.

And unless you've got a good plan and unless you're talking to your kids about what they want, and if they don't want ninety five percent of what is hanging on your walls because they don't have the stories, like we who bought the pieces have the stories, that it's gonna be a big old problem for the kids. And the legacy that you as a collector have tried to create to tell stories and, you know, to have memories of meeting these people and the travels of the artists and all Right.

Great wine you drank hanging around. All that's gonna be sold at a fire sale. So that that's something that's really been on my mind, and we're, you know, expanding our business lines to, help people deaccession because there's a lot of great work coming out of collections as well as collect.

That's something that most of us who are not part of the professional world don't think about very often, but that formal process by which a museum or gallery or other institution permanently removes artwork or objects from their collection and what happens to it. And you both are helping us think. There's a little bit of Will's Estates thinking going on here too in terms of what is our legacy, dear listener.

What is your legacy, and are you going to ensure that it's gonna be what you expect it to be? Well, thank you both for that some of that thinking, continuing to educate us. Quick question to close then. I'll turn back to Michael first for this one. Michael, what is a wish, an interesting thought, or a prediction that you have for the year twenty twenty five? An interesting thought is that I want artwork to get more interesting again.

The art world, at least the dealers in particular seem to have kind of taken a break from pushing the envelope. Election cycles always take the, you know, the wind out of the art market and kind of there's a safe haven, you know, to use like a financial term world, a movement into pieces of, you know, known artists, the forty percent of the artists who Yep. Forty percent of the art market.

That that that'll kinda swing back and that, it's specifically, when I say exciting, I'm really talking about younger artists, the new ways of saying, the new ways of thinking, that that material is gonna be more present because it's really been out of the eye of the art fairs and the dealers and the public for a good a good year or so. And anything Okay. A museum, generally speaking, that's being, you know, curated two years ago or so. So that's my wish. Thank you, Michael, for that wish.

Tanya, turning to you to close. A wish, an interesting thought, or a prediction for the year ahead? A wish is that the complete injustice of there being only one point two percent artists of color in museum permanent collections and only eleven percent women artists in permanent collections of museums. My wish is that collectors would come forward and specifically fund acquisitions, for museums of works by those underrepresented artists.

That's my prediction is that that will only happen if people like us have symposiums where people who would be those investors can meet the curators who want the works by those artists but can't afford them, and, that some of those collectors step up and, start funding those important acquisitions. Yeah. It's it's not clear how to donate a work, and that's, you know, perhaps a subject for another time. But, you know, there you have it.

Well, thank you, Tanya Turner, Carol, and Michael Carroll for the podcast that we did together earlier this year, which is going to continue to be a resource that I'll point anybody to who's interested in investing in art and doing it better. And I would say more capital f foolishly. And so from one capital f fool to two others, thank you both for joining us and creating a bestie for twenty twenty four. Thank you. Thank you, David. Bestie number five was one I'd been planning for years.

I talked last year about how I would do it this year, which I did. On July tenth twenty twenty four, Revuapalooza Ultima, thirty five stock samplers in ten and a half chapters. This Review of Palooza Ultima podcast arose from a unique experiment. Over six years on this podcast, I picked thirty different five stock samplers, all tracked for accountability and learning.

Inspired by both fun and seriousness, each sampler had a theme, sometimes silly, like all stocks starting with the letter m as in good, and other times timely like five stocks for the coronavirus. I hope that this playful creativity would offer listeners not just stock picks, but ideally ideally a master class in long term market beating investment strategies all taught transparently and in real time accounting for every loser and winner.

What makes this episode of Bestie is its grand finale nature, a meticulous final accounting of all one hundred fifty stock picks and their multi year journeys. Against an S and P five hundred average gain of forty percent over those standard three year windows, these samplers averaged a seventy six percent return delivering a striking margin of victory. That's one hundred fifty stocks effectively putting seventy six percent returns up against one hundred fifty competitors.

The S and P putting up forty percent each time. This in a world, of course, where people are influenced, counseled, taught in some cases not to pick individual stocks because you can't beat the market. That would just be luck.

Well, I've disagreed with that assertion my whole life long and in many different contexts, Motley Fool Stock Advisor, Motley Fool Rule Breakers, the original full portfolio that launched when we launched day one on AOL in August of nineteen ninety four, my caps page for those who follow Motley Fool caps, in every one of these contexts, all of which took place over years and years, not just one market cycle, I've beaten, indeed I would say crushed the market averages along with

those who simply copied or followed me, which is what you could do along with these thirty five stock samplers. And for those listening to this podcast, which is by the way, I think you know this, a free podcast. You're not necessarily Motley Fool members or fans. You may not know much about The Motley Fool or my track records or investing at all. Maybe you're here to learn. So here was another arena in which to play.

In some ways the most public of all because, yeah, tens of thousands of listeners and, and free. And so thirty five stock samplers, small baskets of stocks picked every ten weeks or so over six years and tracked ever since. So it truly was an ultimate moment of fun for me to score those samplers as a whole group, the full project over the largely three year contests they composed and on that July day this year, I also revealed something more remarkable.

Their long term follow through performance. You know, simply continuing to hold and track these stocks beyond the three year windows that we gave them. Reviewing results from the days they were first picked starting in two thousand fifteen into July of this year, which pushed the combined advantage of those one hundred fifty stocks.

If you're listening, you'll remember to now even loftier one hundred sixty eight percent return versus the market's one hundred two percent, which demonstrates again how time and patience multiply your edge. So again, over three year windows, those one hundred fifty stocks from big time losers like Peloton or to you to big time winners like Tesla or Nvidia in radically different market environments well outpace the market. And I have one more special update for this bestie.

Let's update those hundred fifty stocks now Updated through this Tuesday morning, December tenth, as we record those one hundred fifty stocks bought and held all the way through now are now up two hundred thirty nine percent on average versus the S and P five hundred's one hundred nineteen percent. Meaning those percentage points of average outperformance have now become plus one hundred twenty.

In fact, we've now doubled up the S and P five hundred, two hundred thirty nine to one hundred nineteen. But enough about that, I know it comes off as bragging and that's a lot of numbers. But in my review of Palooza Ultima, I hope that listeners both new and old will be amazed by stories of sudden COVID era spikes. Dizzying collapses in the face of so much victory and the enduring lesson that losing to win is essential for Rule Breaker success.

In that podcast, I tell the unbelievable to me story of the five stocks for the coronavirus, which as a sampler famously soared two hundred forty percent in their first year, then fell into deep losses and have become the worst performing five stock sampler of all. In fact, updating to now as a basket, those five stocks are down eight point three percent. I mean, that's not horrible. They're just down eight percent on average.

The problem is the S and P five hundred from April eighth twenty twenty is up one hundred twenty one percent. So as a basket, they're minus one hundred twenty nine. Good news. You can lose badly and still win great, which is such a fundamental lesson of rule breaker investing. So the biggest takeaway I think from this experiment and from our review of Palooza Ultima bestie is timeless. True wealth building isn't about never losing. It's about always holding on to your biggest winners.

In a world where short term fears abound, these samplers proved yet again that playing the long game and trusting in growth and innovation creates not just victory, but a legacy of ever expanding alpha. It's a fitting and triumphant send off to a six year journey that has now become a nine year journey and counting, and that is enough for a bestie. Okay. On to bestie number six. Now on the first of May, Mayday, we revisited the world of dividend investing on this podcast.

It's a subject often overshadowed by the flash of dynamic rule breaker stocks, but still fundamental in building wealth and stability. So joined by longtime Fool Advisors, Matt Argosinger and Buck Hartzell, we examined why dividends have grown less common over decades, citing low interest rates, regulatory changes enabling easy buybacks, and the tech driven preference for reinvesting over getting payouts. Yet we also noted that the tide could turn as market conditions shift.

We tackle the practical virtues of dividends from their role as a cash cushion during downturns to the discipline they enforce on companies. And we clarified common misunderstandings highlighting that dividends don't signal the end of a company's growth and that not all buybacks equate to genuine shareholder returns. This podcast receives a bestie for the high quality of my guests. Flat out, both Matt and Buck have been serving Motley Fool members for years and years.

It was a delight to have such talented friends back on this podcast and in a similar way that I enjoyed my conversation about investing in art with the carols. Well, dividend investing discussion also presents, I think, a nice yin to the young of Rule Breaker Investing. And Matt and Buck deserve a return cameo on this podcast. Matt Agersinger, Buck Hartzell, great to see you. Great to be here, David. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. It's great to be back, David.

Thank you. Matt, let me turn to you first. You guys know my two questions. The first question, Matt, feel feel free to speak to some of the companies we discussed seven months, two quarters ago. Matt, what is a reflection you've had since or something you've learned since our podcast in May? Well, I have to say, David, the three companies I I shared at the end of that podcast RPM International, ticker RPM. It recently hit a new all time high, which is great.

And, most importantly, because we we love talking about this during the May show, but it just raised its dividend by eleven percent in October, and that was the fifty first consecutive increase in the dividend for RPM. Fantastic. Right on track, and the stock is yeah. You're you're an all time high. The second company was Hershey Company, which we kinda had fun with at the time. It was trading around a hundred and ninety dollars a share. It's roughly right there right now.

Cocoa prices, which were at record highs back in May, are still near record highs, so that's hurting the company. But Mondelez, the, a big company, is is, once again, according to Bloomberg, trying to buy Hershey. They made a they made an attempt back in two thousand sixteen, I believe, or rebuffed. It's it's a tall task to try to acquire Hershey because of the nature of the ownership of the trust that that's there. We kind of talked about that in the last show. That's right.

We'll have to see if Mona Lee's is successful this time. Yeah. And Hershey I mean, this is all breaking news this week, Matt. So very. That's right. And then Starbucks had a pretty eventful summer. As you know, David, Brian Niccol, the CEO the former CEO of Chipotle came on to be Starbucks' CEO. He, that that became effective in October. The stock has rallied about thirty percent since that announcement in August that he was gonna become the CEO. So it, you know, it's had a nice move.

Lots of confidence in Brian Nichols. We'll see if he pulls it off. He has his what he's calling the back to Starbucks strategy, which includes improving the store experience, increasing order throughput. You know, two big tasks, big challenges that are gonna be, hard to get right, but he certainly has the right experience coming from Chipotle. Fantastic, Matt. Thank you. Thanks for updates on the three companies you mentioned. That is so capital f foolish.

Remembering what we said and speaking back to it being accountable, whether we win or lose, you got some nice winners there. Buck, let me turn it over to you. Yeah. So I had three companies too and and, not probably as much movement in the business as Starbucks with naming a new CEO. All my leaders are still there, but some interesting stuff with the stocks. I picked all three Canadian stocks, because I thought that was just fun.

Yeah. And I and I think, investors need to realize there's some wonderful businesses. I think we all know Shopify up north of us as a Canadian company, but there are a lot of ones that people haven't heard of that are wonderful. So that's what I did because that's what I was feeling at the time back in May. And so quick update on those, MTY Food Group. They're the owner of Cold Stone Creamery and Sweet Frog.

If you've ever gotten the frozen yogurt from them at TCBY, the stock is down about three point seven percent, but, the business has performed really well. They raised their dividends nine point one percent over the previous year. That's well, ahead of inflation. They also are paying down debt from two big acquisitions. They bought BBQ Holdings, which is a con a conglomerate of barbecue restaurants and also Wetzel's Pretzels.

For those of you from Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, you know Annie Anne's. It's the same thing, but it's Wetzel's. Delicious soft pretzels. And so they're paying down that debt, but the interesting thing that I really like is they're buying back stock now. So they're putting some of their capital and they generate strong recurring cash flows because it's mostly a franchise operation.

I think what you'll see happen in the next couple years ahead is they'll pay down some of that debt and the multiple for the stock will go up. So business is going very well, at MTY, but the stock's down, so I like it more. How about your other two, Buck? Yeah. The other two, Enghouse is another one where the stock is flat, but in just two quarters, they've raised both dividends. So in total, the dividends are up eighteen point five percent over the previous year.

Wow. They are sitting with no debt, record cash balance that they get from, an increasingly amount of recurring revenues, close to seventy percent of their revenue is recurring. They're a software business with two hundred and fifty eight million dollars in cash. So the business is doing very well, and they've had their fourth consecutive quarter of double digit revenue growth.

So we're sitting at a time where it's a ten year low on a multiple, but yet the business is growing nicely, and they have record cash for more acquisitions. So I really like Enghouse here as well. Makes sense. And and the last one is Brookfield infrastructure, which is up about forty percent just from May. That's ahead of, I think, my expectations, and they were a high dividend yield stock at the time. They were yielding close to six percent.

Now it's it's down quite a bit just because as interest rates have come down and the Fed has started to cut rates, some of these higher dividend yielding stocks have become more preferable. I think that's also happening across real estate investment trusts and things, but Matt covers those more than I do. But I'd say Brookfield Infrastructure is doing exactly as we thought. The stock has done better than I would have thought when we recommended it, but that's up forty percent, since we've gone.

And they've raised dividends five point eight percent over that time. That's fantastic. I love right in the middle of our besties. We're getting stock updates for dividend stocks. That is exactly what I want from my besties every year and from my good friends, Matt and Buck. Thank you guys for updating us on the stocks that you talked about. I'm quite certain a lot of people listening bought one or more of them, and I'm delighted to hear that we're doing pretty well.

Those are companies, some of them making news, others quiet, and yet they're all paying and or raising dividends. And that was the main point of dividend fools volume two, our bestie winner. Let me close it out. I'll turn back to you, Buck. First, what is a wish, an interesting thought, or a prediction you have for twenty twenty five? I had a lot of wishes because it's that time of year. Right, David?

But but also my first one out there, and this this comes really from a trip that I did, right before we got together in May. I went to Patagonia for about three and a half weeks and had some time in Argentina. And what I realized when I was there was that it's really important from a from a for Americans to be exemplars for the rest of the world. And I and I mean that just out of not only of our leadership politically, but of our businesses and individuals.

And I think just collectively, when I look around, my wish for America is to just be more civil, to be more team players and just be successful. And so I spend a lot of my time at The Fool looking at incentives and how they're aligned. And I would just say, wouldn't it be wonderful if everyone on our favorite sports teams were incentivized for one thing, winning?

Not just how many touchdowns or catches or yards or whatever else, but they're paid based on how well the overall, you know, team performs. I feel that way about companies, and I feel that way about our country. So I would just say, be team players, be more civil. Right? And think about the outcome more than yourself. Well said, Buck Hartsell. Here. Here. Yep. Matt, what about you? A wish, an interesting thought, or a prediction? Let me also echo.

That was really well said, Buck, and I I I don't wanna have to follow that, but I will. I will just say we've had two pretty spectacular years, in a row for the stock market. You know, if you go by the S and P five hundred, the market is up nearly thirty percent. I know we still have a couple weeks here, but up nearly thirty percent. In two thousand twenty three, the market was up twenty one percent. And so two fantastic years in a row.

And, David, I know you said many times, you know, the market is generally up two out of every three years. That also means though, of course, that it's generally down one out of every three years, and we've had two amazing years in a row. So I think if you're an investor, this doesn't mean two thousand twenty five is gonna be bad.

I just think it means we probably need to head into the new year mindful that the probability of a down year is higher now than it was, I think, coming into two thousand twenty four. That also means there there are gonna be opportunities. But I think if investors go in a little bit with that mindset saying, hey. Things have been great. I I should probably prepare myself for maybe a little more volatility or the chance that we have maybe a not so great year in two thousand twenty five.

I think there's a foolish approach to that, which is just, you know, be mindful of that and and look for opportunities as well. It. Well, of course, I think the market's going up next year, but that's the market call I make every year, Matt, and I'm wrong as you as you as you mentioned about one third of the time. So really appreciate that thought.

And, you know, I think for a lot of us, while it's fun to think about how good this year was, how good last year was, frankly, how bad the year before that was, and how next year might be.

But I think if you're playing the game that Buck, Matt, and so many of our members play, the long game where you're making, I would say, if you're making a lifetime commitment to the market and staying invested all the way through, I think, a, you'll do better, and b, by buying and holding and just adding those dividends right along as we go quarter by quarter, you actually do a lot less work than people who are constantly jumping in or jumping out and trading.

So I think that's also part of the magic of our dividend fools. Well, Buck Hartzell, Matt, Argusinger, I really wanna thank you for that podcast we did together for your thoughts and for your cameo appearance on this year's besties, Huzzah. Thank you, David. Happy holidays. Thank you. Bestie number seven came on October ninth. Innovating the future with XPRIZE's Elaine Hunkenberg proved exceptionally timely and timeless by revealing how one bold challenge can spin off industries worth trillions.

Hearing about the first XPRIZE, which ignited private space travel, we see how offering ten million dollars set into motion a new era that governments alone couldn't have achieved. Just as impressive was Elaine's account of the wildfire x prize, a visionary challenge that demands instant autonomous suppression of dangerous wildfires. I think we can all vote for that.

These and others of Elaine's stories show that moonshot thinking can reshape not just products or industries, but entire global systems. Well, in a year of big ideas, Elaine reminded us to aim for the moon. If you fail, you'll land among the stars. One listener reflected, and I quote, I just finished your conversation with Elaine Hungerburg episode twice. Definitely a twenty twenty four besties nominee. Her positive energy is through the roof and in a great way.

She's very inspiring, end quote, and she is, and she's back. Elaine Hungerburg, thank you for that podcast we did in October. Welcome back to Rule Breaker Investing. Thanks, David. Well, Elaine, the two questions I've been asking each of my treasured guests this week. Of course, the first one is any reflections on that podcast we did together. Now admittedly, it was just two months ago, but any thoughts back on the podcast or on our world at large in the meantime?

Yes. Lots of thoughts, David. It was so much fun. The first thought, we talked a lot about innovation and the creative minds of everyone around the world. And for me, I truly believe in the power of contrarian thinking, right, and driving change. But the importance of challenging dominant narratives to create breakthroughs, they really need to do more good than they do harm. Right? And so in it's the hidden risk of innovation. Right?

The challenge of balancing bold ideas with ethical or societal considerations. And so I have just been recently enthralled with when the underestimated approach or the, you know, the underdog end up being the groundbreaking solution because they do it in a way that is unexpected and is more inclusive. And we talk about this at the Motley Fool Foundation all the time. Right? That, a powerful collaboration of ingenuity, it raises the boat. Right?

And for me, in the era of contrarian thinking, whether that be politically or in society, I think it's important, you know, to be inclusive and and to think about who you're innovating for and who those solutions will be used by. And I'm just I'm encouraged by by the world at large as you know, but I think that we're at an inflection point where, you know, consumers and investors especially have have a role to play in that. So that's my reflection on our podcast.

That was just two months ago, and it was so much fun, David. I love it. And you've been around the world. You travel more than most people I know, Elaine, and you're going to interesting places and meeting fascinating people, and we don't have time for that. But we did share some of that together on a podcast. I hope anybody who missed it will be able to be inspired to go back and listen to.

But, Elaine, thank you for that contribution, and it does make me think so much about my own investing approach and Rule Breaker Investing, the name of the podcast, because we really do celebrate the rule breakers. As Steve Jobs once said, and Apple went big with this campaign, think different. And when you do, it can be a little bit disquieting, or sometimes you look like a crazy underdog that has no shot.

But when that works out, especially in the stock market, we really can get smarter, happier, and richer as a consequence. So we celebrate the underdogs and the muckrakers and the dreamscapers. And thank you for that very much, Elaine. And my final question for you is, of course, do you have for the year ahead, do you have for us a wish, an interesting thought, or a prediction? I do have a wish, David.

And my biggest wish for twenty twenty five is that we'll begin seeing solutions for the world's most intractable problems, not as a zero sum battle, but as an opportunity to unlock exponential growth for everybody, where things like tackling climate change or poverty or health isn't seen as a sacrifice, but as an investment. And you and I know that when we invest in in good, that we do well. And so that's my wish for twenty twenty five.

I love it. It puts me in mind of the great Harry Truman line. I know you know this one, Elaine. Optimists make opportunities of their difficulties and pessimists make difficulties of their opportunities. So I love that spirit of looking for solutions. Often in life, one of the big secrets in life to me is we find what we're looking for. So let's make sure we're looking for the best things. Elaine Hungenberg, I'm so glad to be your friend.

Thank you for joining me on that special podcast in October, which has received a bestie. And especially thanks for making time for our cameo for this special episode. Full on, my friend. Thanks for having me, David, so much. Recording the episode that wins bestie number eight made for a unique experiment.

I asked Chatt GPT, the AI tool much talked about on this podcast before and by the world at large to come up with five of the most beautiful, challenging, inventive, valuable, provocative, and or capital f foolish questions about rule breaker investing, and I would endeavor to answer them. So instead of me interviewing a guest, I let AI interview me on that podcast responding directly to its queries. This is a fun twist. It blended emergent technology with timeless investing principles.

I was genuinely curious to see how well ChatGPT knew this podcast and what it would ask. And I think it delivered something special. So this one earns a bestie because it perfectly illustrates why we keep pushing the boundaries. New tech like AI integrates with new thinking because, by the way, rule breaker investing is very much new thinking for the world at large as well as you and I may know it.

Principles like find top dogs, let winners run, embrace conscious capitalism, and never fear losing as part of winning. That's very much new thinking for the world at large. Now, if you missed the episode, expect a few moments how human centered AI can enrich not replace our creativity and investing judgment. How one colossal winner can dwarf numerous flops and why maintaining a portfolio that truly reflects your best vision for our future is indispensable.

I think this conversation reveals something timely and that would be our comfort in experimenting with AI and also something timeless because we're all learners adapting to new landscapes without abandoning core values. Ultimately, ChatGPT asks David answers reassured me that while technology evolves, the core principles of rule breaker investing and the human spirit behind them stay beautifully intact. There was a great line that I got to rock in that episode. I'm gonna rock it again here.

It's from at author j mac, Joanna on Twitter x. Here's what she said. She said, I want AI to do my laundry and dishes so that I can do art and writing, not for AI to do my art and writing so that I can do my laundry and dishes. If you didn't hear that episode, give it a listen and see what you think. And if you enjoyed it, know that on that day in June, a new Rule Breaker Investing episodic series was born.

In fact, I've already added volume two into it complete with some new baseball theming where every question Chat GPT challenges me with is like into a baseball pitch, a fastball curve, a screwball question for Chat GPT. That was volume two a month ago on November thirteenth. But the bestie goes to the OG, the volume one that got us started.

Bestie number nine was one of my favorite memories from this podcast in twenty twenty four, and seventy three of the more memorable minutes I spent all year long. It was our first ever market cap game show, world championships, featuring longtime Motley Fool advisors, personalities, bright lights, Andy Cross, and Bill Mann, each of whom had secured his place by first advancing from a final four. This was not just another friendly guessing game.

This was high pressure, high skill competition at its finest as they fenced with numbers, calling out tight market cap ranges, and wrestling with companies both obscure and legendary. We listeners were treated to an epic tug of war where each point felt like a triumph. And by the time we reach the final showdown, the tension was palpable. Our two brilliant fools were tied, leaving a final tie breaker to forever and shrine one of them as our inaugural champion.

The precision, the drama, the razor thin margins, all of it made for a uniquely exhilarating episode that showcased not just financial acumen, but the fun and camaraderie that define this podcast's spirit. If investing is often described as a marathon, well, this was the sprint. An unforgettable laughter laced heart in throat dash toward glory. And now world champion Andy Cross and world runner-up Bill Mann are back. Guys, let's reflect back on that podcast we did together a bit.

Andy, I'll turn to you first. Thoughts? David, it was so much fun. It was so great going against, Bill for that competition. I mean, combined, we have, like, ninety years of experience or more than eighty years of experience here at The Motley Fool with investing. So a ton of fun. It is funny to look back on that. And if you look at it from that time about the market's up about seventeen percent, so a great stock market.

Our combined batch of stocks we talked about is up about eight or nine percent, so hasn't kept up with the with the I love you tracking that in. But how did we get random. Oh, I don't blame myself, Bill. I just blame you for this. But here's what's really interesting. The when I reflect back on that, David, I there was one that I got so horribly wrong. It was just embarrassing with Synaptics. Ah. And I came out with a guess of eighty to a hundred billion dollars in market cap for Synaptics.

And Synaptics is a sub ten billion dollars. So so I lost that against Bill. I think he tied me on that round. But what's what's interesting is Synaptics is even smaller today because it's down fifteen percent since we talked about that. So my guess of Synaptics was so wrong. And, of course, I love looking at stock and investing business, sports, whatever it is. You have winners, you have losers.

Synaptics, I got wrong terribly wrong that day, but I ended up still taking the championship trophy, so I respect that. It was epic. Bill, are you still heartbroken? Have you gotten over this? Was there a process, the five stages of grief? Have you have you gone through it? This was Chris Hart at the buzzer. This was, Diakite off the fingertips. It was the closest of margins, but I remember that exact moment too because both Andy and I thought it was an entirely different company.

And I think we were I think Synopsis, baby? Yes. I thought it was synopsis. We were both off by, like, a factor of ten, and yet one of us was closer than the other. So by the rules of the game, someone, and I believe it was Andy, got a stinking point for that. Oh, Well, guys, I've asked you for one additional bit of insight. I think you know what's coming. I'll turn to you first this time, Bill.

What is a wish, an interesting thought, or a prediction you have, Bill Mann, for the year twenty twenty five? I just wanna win. Just wanna win win win. You know, one of the main stories of twenty twenty four has been the dominance of the, the magnificent seven and the concentration of the U. S. Stock market, amongst the top ten companies and really the top industry being technology. The U. S. Has what is what I describe as a structural and philosophical lead in technology.

And I think in twenty twenty five, if anything, we're going to see that lead extended. And that's not really a stock market call because I think we would say that the stock market has really figured out these companies. But I don't think in twenty twenty five, we're going to look and say, Hey, there's a company that's coming up from any place outside of the United States that is, that has any real opportunity to upend these phenomenal, generators of capital.

That is an interesting thought indeed, Bill. And I know a lot of us, I'm sure a couple of us included, own at least one, if not more of those companies. And they have been mainstays for our portfolios. And a lot of the outperformance, if you have experienced outperformance, dear listener, may well come down to just one of those. Because you pick any one of those stocks, if it goes up a hundred times in value over ten or fifteen years, you're gonna be beating the market.

And, and I'm happy to say there are some rule breakers among those. But thank you, Bill. I I appreciate that. As a fellow American, I hope that we'll continue to share out Mhmm. Our learning, knowledge, and wealth, and the spirit of freedom worldwide, and encourage more and more people in other countries and cultures to, to embrace the best of what we have. Not everything that we have because let's face it, we suck too at some things.

But, the truth is that I do agree that conscious capitalism especially, plants its flag and not to start getting into an Ohio State Michigan conversation with Michigan alum, Andy Cross. But, you know, there there's a lot of good flag planning when it comes to conscious capitalism in the United States of America. I hope that extends out further. Andy, what is an interesting thought, a wish, an interesting thought, or a prediction you have for twenty twenty five?

Yeah. Just very quickly, if I may, I I agree a hundred percent with Bill's comment. I'm looking forward to reading the NVIDIA way, the new book that's coming out about Jensen Huang and what he has built and how he has built it NVIDIA, which is coming out, is out or out soon. So just the reflection on that, I I I'm really interested to see I have two quick comments, David, if I may.

Really interested to see how the, expansion of AI technology and automation starts to impact, so many more companies, and we start to hear a lot more about it at the enterprise level from companies across all sectors and industries on how they are benefiting. And we need to see that because the expectations is that the earnings potential will be somewhere in the thirteen percent for the S and P five hundred versus, I think, it's barely flat this year pretty much on the earning side.

And so to continue that margin growth, we need to see that innovation to be able to expand margins. So I'm excited to to see how that plays out across other industries. However, the thing that I'm really interested in, David, is Bill and I were talking about Berkshire Hathaway earlier. I am a shareholder, have been for many, many years, and I have never been to the Berkshire Hathaway annual meeting ever in my life.

And Warren is now mister Buffet is approaching ninety four, I think, maybe around that, and and I hope, to make it out to Omaha this year for that, and and I hope he does as well. And let's help him all the year. Love it. Road trip with Andy and Bill. I'm signed up. It's gonna stream probably not Netflix, guys, but, you know, Peacock maybe, like season one. I would like to a cameo in your streaming show. Got it. But road trip Danny and Bill to see Warren.

I mean, that that is a fun that is a documentary that I would help fund. Wonderful. We we might need funding for that. I you know, we're gonna start. David, we'll talk after. Well, speaking of entertainment properties, in the meantime, you added a lot of value to this one with bestie number nine, which was the market cap game show finals with Andy and Bill. Guys, thank you so much.

Not just for the fun of that hour and this bestie, but the friendship that we've enjoyed, the value we've created together, looking back over these ninety combined years, and I I trust that'll keep going forward. I hope a lot more years too. Andy, Bill, happy holidays, guys. Full on. Same to you. Thanks. Thanks, David. Happy holidays. Happy holidays, Bill. I had such fun with the podcast this year.

I'm thinking of my authors in August, which are not represented here this year, but were such a delight. For instance, the conversation with Stanford neuroscientist David Eagleman and his wildly inventive book, Some. And indeed, in that podcast, he helped create maybe one of our best buy, sell, hold segments in Motley Fool history. So cheers to David and to all my authors. But I've reserved bestie number ten for what was my favorite podcast of the year.

Actually, Two, because it spawned a companion weekend extra. And that was February twenty eighth when we recorded our special one hundredth mailbag episode, February twenty twenty four mailbag, number one hundred very good company. It featured the voices of seven long time listeners and contributors, Jason Moore, Dave Geck, Jum, Jason Trice, Adam Nelson, Mike McMahan, and Jason Newman. That hour offered rich testimony to what makes this podcast community so special.

The power of relationships, the value of optimism, the inspiration of shared insights, and the enduring support found right here. Across their stories, a common thread emerged that investing is more than stocks and returns. It's also about generous dialogue, mutual encouragement, and the friends we make who celebrate our successes, share our burdens, and remind us that we're all in it together.

Each guest affirmed the importance of community, making it clear that as we learn from one another, we all grow smarter, happier, and richer together. And indeed, each of my contributors drop me an update this week in the form of short answers to my two bestie questions.

One, any reflection since, and two, what is their wish interesting thought or prediction for twenty twenty five in the same order that I introduced them on the one hundredth mailbag, I will close out this year's podcast, this bestie with bestie number ten with their updates from our very good company. Jason Moore up first. Answer number one, reflecting on the February podcast, Jason writes, wow, February already?

I'm struck by how it emphasized the joy of shared experiences, not just about investments, but also about how authentic stories inspire others to find value in unexpected places. I loved how each guest had unique backgrounds but shared common themes. Being part of such a milestone episode was a humbling experience, Jason Moore goes on. And I'm so glad I had a chance to connect and learn from the others involved.

It reminded me of how essential communities like this are for growth, whether financial, personal, or intellectual. It has also led me to compare my investing portfolios from February to now this week. And guess what? It looks like the market is going up this year. He includes a winky emoji. Thank you again, Jason Wright, for the chance to share and grow alongside such a fantastic community.

And answer number two, he says, I predict we'll see AI powered animal communication tools emerge, an echo of Babaltricity from the RBI episode, The Year the Market Skyrocketed. Imagine your dog explaining its deep seated hatred for delivery trucks or your cat delivering a TED talk on why humans will never truly understand elegance. As Larry McCloskey might have said, every creature has a story. And thanks to AI, we might soon hear them, though hopefully with fewer exploding ferrets.

Thank you, Jason Moore. Next on to Dave Geck, answer number one on reflection. Dave wrote, I committed to getting in shape to do one pull up and bench press ninety percent of my weight. I've learned that for me, it's seventy one that is not easy to do. I'm up to my lips and about seventy five percent need to keep at it. I'm surprised, but surprisingly not disappointed because I've come to reflect that going for improvement is more important than getting there.

And answer number two from Dave Geck, my hope for twenty twenty five is that David Gardner starts a new annual segment on reviewing his five stock samplers. My favorite podcast by far across the spectrum of not only Rule Breakers, but all podcasts I am listening to or have listened to over the years. Dave writes, if you would have to toss something out to shoehorn this in, I propose the games review.

Let me add, I listened to those reviews, though I've never bought or wanted any of the games, but it is interesting to see how games and games within games evolve. I don't wanna see it go, but dot dot dot. That's where Dave Geck leaves it. Thank you, Dave Geck. Onto Jum. Jum, answer number one. The past few years, especially twenty twenty four, have felt so politicized with division and extreme voices taking center stage. But what stood out to me about our group is how none of that mattered.

We didn't care who lived in red or blue states or political differences. We even have a Canadian at Jason Moore. Instead, we connected through our interactions, perspectives, and what we each brought to the table. It made me realize I was surrounded by truly kind and remarkable people. Looking back, I'm sure we could have had a respectful, meaningful discussion about politics if it had come up. And John's answer number two, on that note for twenty twenty five and beyond, my wish is simple.

Let's focus on respect, character, and the good in others instead of labels or affiliations. I believe we have more in common than we think. I believe meaningful conversations done with empathy, patience, and humility bring us closer together. Like you said, David, most people are moderate. What we see in the news doesn't reflect the true majority. Let's not let those extremes convince us otherwise or push us into taking unnecessary sides.

This incredible community has been such a positive reminder that the world is full of good thoughtful people. I'm excited to keep learning from each other and adding more value to the world, wishing you and everyone a year filled with good health, kindness, and joy. Thank you, John. Now on to Jason Trice. Jason, answer number one, I was overwhelmed, he writes, by the sense of community between what I thought were strangers.

Within a couple of minutes, it felt like I was chatting with lifelong friends. It's a testament to the community you've created through The Fool and the Rule Breaker Investing podcast. It also serves as a reminder that the things that unite us are much stronger than those that divide us. And his answer number two, I'll stick with a community theme.

Jason Trice writes, understanding how integral community has been in my life, my wish for twenty twenty five is that everyone will find a community that embraces, supports, and challenges them. I hope to do my part by supporting existing communities or potentially starting my own. I guess this is also a prediction. People are hungry for connection, and wise companies will place an emphasis on creating and building communities in twenty twenty five.

Thank you. Jason Trice. On to participant number five of seven, Adam Nelson. Adam's answer number one, reflections. A lot can change in a little time, Adam writes. If you feel stuck, keep moving, and you won't be for long. In nine months, I started a dream job at a great company. I've traveled a lot including a trip to Berlin where I in line skated a marathon with my wife. I had a back injury before Berlin and subsequently recovered, and we added a new puppy to our family.

On top of all that, Adam goes on, many stocks have made massive moves higher in less than a year. My biggest reflection though is to surround yourself with high quality people like your guests from the one hundredth mailbag. And his answer number two, a prediction for twenty twenty five. Adam goes, a lot will change in one short year. Keep up the good work. Thanks for everything. I wish you and all the fools a wonderful holiday season.

Thank you, Adam Nelson, forever enshrined in the Rule Breaker Investing Hall of Fame for being the catalyst behind the day the world changed. The day we changed the rules of the market cap game show. All part of history now, a history that cannot be rewritten. How fortunate am I that as I walked on this earth, Adam Nelson was there with me. Alright. On to Mike McMahan, pro shop guy as he's known on Twitter x and an invaluable contributor to Motley Fool Live.

Mike says in answer to question number one, in February, I stated that my best investment was developing habits emphasizing the importance of relationships, lifelong learning, and self improvement. Now here we are ten months later, Mike says, with over sixteen hundred miles walked, seven hundred fifty hours of podcasts listened to, over twenty books read, and more than five hundred hours of Motley Fool work, I am smarter, happier, and richer as I enter my seventh decade on the planet.

Wow. Thanks, Mike. And his answer number two, in twenty twenty five, I look forward to using AI to query all the material I've accumulated and stored in Readwise, Roam and Twitter, which will supercharge the use of my second brain. Very well put and something I look forward to you acting on in twenty twenty five. Thank you, Mike McMahon.

And we close out bestie number ten with the person I've known the longest among this group of fools, and that would be Jason Newman, whom I first met at a Motley Fool book signing, our first book in New York City back in the nineteen nineties. Jason, your answer to question number one, reflecting on twenty twenty four being part of Rule Breaker Investing's one hundredth episode remains a highlight for me.

Having listened to every episode before and since, my appreciation for this remarkable body of work is truly beyond words. Thank you, David, and the entire team. Beyond the fun conversation and thoughtful insights shared, it's the friendships formed and strengthened that I treasure most. We had Dave's, Gardner and Gec, Jason's, Moore, Trice, and Newman, Jum, Adam, and Mike. Many of us have stayed in touch, continuing to inspire and support one another.

That sense of community is the greatest gift from the experience. And Jason's answer number two, I'll leave the wishing to dreamers and the predictions to pundits and instead share an interesting thought for twenty twenty five. Turning fifty this year prompts reflection for me And while I've witnessed incredible innovations from the Internet's rise to reusable rockets, nothing has matched the transformative power of artificial intelligence.

As an early adopter, Jason writes, I've seen my life change in ways I couldn't have imagined. Yet, this future remains unevenly distributed. My thought, it will be fascinating to watch this unfold, and I'll remain both a champion and curious observer of this remarkable trend. Well, hearing that, Jason Newman, or frankly, anyone would have heard every podcast we've done is just humbling, beautiful, unexpected.

But I guess that's all part of the community encouragement cycle that became so evident in this rule breaker investing year of twenty twenty four. Thank you to producer Des Jones who's done a fine job for me most all of this year and just produced her first besties. No mean feat. Thank you again to every one of my special guests. Each of these men and women in one way or another is a hero of mine, maybe of yours too.

It's an honor to have them sit with us briefly here in Foothalla near the end of another year. In fact, thank you for all of those who made fifty stellar weeks of this podcast for twenty twenty four so far happen. Thank you. Most of all, dear listeners, much gratitude. I had such fun and learned a lot, and I hope you did too. And that is the heart of the besties. Twenty twenty four, timely and time less. Full on.

As always, people on this program may have interest in the stocks they talk about, and The Motley Fool may have formal recommendations for or against. So don't buy or sell stocks based solely on what you hear. Learn more about Rule Breaker Investing at r b I dot fool dot com.