Dr. Mike's FULL Diet Setup: Macros, Pharm, & Training

Welcome, everyone, to the ArpaSync Podcast. I am Nick Shaw, joined by the one and only Dr. Mike Isretel. What I say on the channel, Dr. Mike here, Renaissance Periodization. When I say on the channel, Dr. Mike here for RP Strength, I want people to know that every single time I say that I'm thinking of like Billy May's Haze or whatever, or OxyClean, that's what I'm trying to be.

The thing about him is I have no idea who the fuck he was or if he was famous before OxyClean. But when he said that I'm Billy whatever for OxyClean, I always felt special. I felt like he was taking his time to talk to us. Irrelevant. the npcs he was doing it for the oxyclean corporation and i thought that was just it was it was a celebration we could all have together in high school one of my buddies used to do that impression all the time

We were going to some sporting event. It was probably like a basketball game in ninth or 10th grade. And he just kept doing it repeatedly on the bus. And then finally the coach like turned around and yelled, shut up. You know, something like that. Just like, just a point of just excessive.

that's the thing i was talking to someone yesterday oh it was adam you know adam you met him and we were talking about back when i was in like junior high high school just the you would make fun of anyone about anything like middle school, high school. Like that's what it is. I'm pretty sure it's still like that today. I'm not sure as much. I don't know, but like, man, kids are ruthless.

Kids are brutal in a way that adults sometimes don't even consider because it's not in your Overton window of your mind to even like render some assessments. Like kids will straight up be like, that person's fat. And you're like, Jesus Christ, shut up. But like, yes, they're fat. If it bothers them, they want to say it to them. And you're like, dude, I know. Or like, did you ever have like anything on your face, like a mole or anything? Kids just want to talk about it all the time.

They're like imperfection detectors that want to voice imperfections or occur. My sophomore year in high school, I had some pretty bad acne. Dude, it was terrible. Yeah. It's like just like trauma. it's tricky because people will say like the innocence of a child and it's so true kids are so innocent in so many ways but also the opposite statement is also true like the ruthlessness of a child well depending on the child to me

It's like maybe eight and under. They're probably not making fun of kids as much. Start getting a little bit older like that. into coming up on like the the tween years teen years oh between years between the teen years even some little like a little bit of uh every year of the teen years you get a substantial amount of like civilization and you queen years are like total chaos that's lord of the flies

Age 9 to 12 is like some special age where like, holy shit. That's pretty much where my kids are right now. Although my son's going to be 14 here in like a month. Yeah, so he's probably calming down here pretty soon. He's always been a tad bit more mature, I would say, but in some regards. That's one of the things to kind of bring it into our space.

I was on the Jack Neal podcast recently. He's great. Second time on his podcast. He wanted to talk about the aesthetic revolution the whole time. I was like, yeah, this is dope. We're talking about a lot of stuff, and I think the one thing that keeps hitting me super hard is when people don't look remotely like what they want, it's a sore spot.

The source number goes away because you're always in your body. Never goes away. I was just going to say that. I was thinking that before you said it. It never goes away. You can't escape it. Yeah. And a lot of those same people, the way they've been treated for their bodies or their faces. that maybe you know none of us are ideal but like i always talk about middle school and like i say in the podcast i had a fine time in middle school it was you know really in some way it was a total hell

I didn't even get bullied a ton. I bullied a few times. It wasn't getting any fun of for my parents, really, any more than anyone else did, really just a handful of times. I saw kids get it much worse. And I remember vicariously living through those kids. and being like oh my god that person's life is a because i didn't really stand out much you know but like if you stand out not in a fun way how many kids were in your grade in middle school i don't know yeah sure middle school high school

In high school, it was double because it was combined middle schools. But in middle school, it was like, let's see, 150, 150 per grade. So like 300 in high school? Uh-huh. Okay, that's about three times my size. Mine was about 100. So was your shit like worse because there was nowhere to hide? Imagine you were a kid that was like not... You weren't looking the way you were posed to be looking.

Man, I know we've talked about this just briefly, and I promise there is a kind of hypertrophy element to this podcast we'll get to in a second. Mike, I honestly just, I mean, I had acne. I remember I was a little chubby until probably like seventh grade. I didn't get made fun of it though. I just, I don't, I literally don't have that experience where of course I got made fun of.

dude i had i had i broke my thumb in basketball so my thumb is like kind of weirdly deformed i got made fun of constantly for that yeah yeah yeah i've noticed your thumb my little kid inside me was like nick has weird thumbs be an autist and point it out yeah But not to the point where I would have felt ridiculously bad about it. Also, it's just a quirk. Imagine being a girl who is overweight.

and has like too big or too small or too whatever of a nose. And that's your life. But since you're six years old, you learned that people don't react to you like they do their cute little girls. and ever since you're nine years old the cute girls won't hang out with you and you used to be best friends with them and now they're for some reason cold to you and you try to hang out and they tell you like hey dude yeah we're good and then you know what age

11, one of the bully boys in class starts to make fun of you for being fat and ugly and no one stands up for you because they don't want to be associated with you because you're fat and ugly. That's a real thing that happens. And like, man. that's not cool. And okay, kids do what kids do. But when you're an adult and you're still in that body and that face,

Maybe you want to turn over a new leaf and improve your body. And maybe you want to improve your face. And I would never in a million years preach that to someone that they should do that. But if they do, they can really live in a different frame and heal. it's a lot of healing to do what a wildly just different experience you know that people have because again like if you grow up you know the what pretty privilege yeah you just

And I'm not saying I had that, unless I'm not saying I'm particularly pretty. You were in that beautiful middle part where you just don't stand out enough to either get a lot of pretty privilege points or a lot of uggo. uh i didn't stand out for bad reasons how about that so i just i didn't exactly i didn't get exactly yeah yeah yeah so that's a great place to be that's like maybe many people's experiences of those times

Yeah, I just, yeah, I don't have that experience. Did you ever make fun of kids when you were in middle school? Were you part of the groups that would make fun of people? No, fuck no. you know i listen straight up i definitely was part of those groups yeah i mean i made fun of my friends okay yeah yeah uh i did retaliatory fun making so like in your close group of friends you dish it out as much as you receive it

yeah for sure okay good okay no i didn't i didn't the thing is like yeah and i don't want anyone to feel guilty for having made fun of people when they were little like you do dumb ass when you're a little kid i did my plenty of fair share of dumb unethical

But like, I remember one girl was, I did retaliatory fun making. So one girl, we were playing four square. Do you guys ever play four square? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. It's the greatest game. We still play it today. I play it with my kids a little bit here and there in the driveway. Do you lay cherry bombs and flack out of them? If you make it to the king square, you get to set the rules so you can start a limit. You can say no cherry bombs and stuff. Damn.

Really good technical Foursquare I did learn how to play when I was that age. And it actually just makes it not so fun for everyone else because you just like win all the time. Like Foursquare, many people play cooperatively where they hit the ball right in front of you and you get to bounce it to someone else. The reality is you want to take an angle and hit it in such a way that they can't even reach it and it just bounces straight out. Or you take the angle and you hit it right at their feet.

Or you go right for their chest area. And so they just get hit with the ball and it bounces off, which is automatically going to fucking cost them. And that's like ruthless. Nowadays, they kind of set rules. Like you can say no sniping. So you can't do the little corner shots. Correct. Hey, I'm not here to argue whether it's good or bad. So this, this Russian kid was playing with me and he was like more fobby than me. Right. Fresh off the boat.

Because I was Americanized. I didn't have an accent. He had an accent. His English was fine. He just had an accent. You know, he looked funny. Different outfit, different, et cetera. And this one girl was in seventh grade. And this one girl, she was a great, great person.

uh i mean i didn't know her as a great person at the time in retrospect she is she made fun of the kids like in a not like cooperative way like in a mean way and i like i don't know what got over got overly naked i just stood up for him I was like, oh, is that why you're flat? And in seventh grade, there may not be nothing that hits as hard as that.

Which is insane because you literally have no control over it. Yeah. I feel like you get made fun of the most about things you literally have no control over. Can you imagine? 100%.

Also, can you imagine telling a grown woman in her 20s or 30s, like, hey, you have small tits? She'd be like, yeah, you want to see him? Please, God, I want to see him. Sign me up. Can you imagine someone... some seventh grade like kid like you're driving your kid he's in seventh grade he looks at you in the car and he's like aren't aren't flat tits gross you're like kid you need to grow up absolutely they're not gross you out of your mind i'll talk to you in like five years kid

Yeah, I don't care about what you're interested in when you're under the age of 25. I'm kidding. 18 for sure. Like, oh, I like big boobs. Like, oh, cool. Did you learn that in a magazine, you little bitch? Have you ever been with a woman before?

You know what? Anyway, it was not a very nice thing to say, but it was retaliatory. But as far as going out of my way to make fun of people on purpose, I don't believe I did a whole lot of that. And that doesn't exonerate me from being a piece of shit in about 30 fucking other ways.

I like how you did caveat that she wasn't a good person back in seventh grade, but in retrospect, she actually is overall. Everyone's kind of a little... deviant and you're uncivilized when you're in seventh grade you're like way worse version of yourself than you'll ever be again hopefully jesus christ can you imagine peaking in seventh grade nick like you peak as a knife your your kindness or your intelligence

Your sociability peak in seventh grade. That's not good. Yikes. I tell you what, brother, in middle school, I was the best goddamn running back that fucking Pine Creek Elementary School had ever seen. I benched more than my coach. Do you remember benching 225 for the first time?

I don't actually have that memory, no. I feel like I do. I feel like it was after school one day, we went in the weight room and I was, of course, in a pissed off mood because when you're in ninth, tenth grade, of course, you're always in a pissed off mood.

And I remember doing it. Like, yeah, I was throwing on. I just remember doing it. Like, yeah. It's really impressive. I couldn't do it when I was in the 10th grade. In the 11th grade, I couldn't. And by the 12th grade, I was repping it for many reps.

Yeah. In the ninth grade, when I started lifting, I remember coming in with some friends to mess with the weight room. I hadn't gone in there again after a month. So this wasn't me starting lifting, it was just messing around. And I remember there was the... we inclined bench and you could put tens on each side or fives on each side. I didn't put tens on because they were too big for me. I did fives for like a set of five and I was like really hard. Yep. I was at, uh, go ahead.

I was at a gym in New Jersey once, already in my 30s, super jacked. And these clearly 14 or 15-year-olds were lifting right across from me, and I was inclining a gazillion. And they were inclining too.

and they caught my eye and they looked at me and i was like you guys want to hear something tripped out but uh like when i was your age what do you got hello either 15 i was when i was 15 i could do even less weight than you guys like they looked at me like i was a monster and they were like eat weight like 100 pounds

And I was like, cause they were doing five on a side or 10 on a side and they were doing it well. And I was like, I could even do less than that. And now I can do like 300 for reps. And they literally just didn't respond. They just continued to stare at me as if nothing happened. Anyway, you guys have a good time now. I was going to say, that's like the coolest thing you can do. Like, hey, kid, how old are you? 15, sir.

You're doing more than I could at 15. Dude, that's actually really cool. I thought it was going to be great. I thought they were going to be like, oh, thanks, mister. We're motivated now. Yeah. Expecting clever responses out of teenagers is a pretty bad idea. Yeah, I remember you telling me, I was like, Mike, no one ever comes up to me and talks to me in the gym and you're like, dude, that's because you probably look scary as fuck. I probably also have RBF. Resting bitch face.

when i'm in the gym yeah i mean dude like you see my lifting pics and videos it looks like i'm gonna kill somebody like it's weird i don't control i don't know it's just what my face looks like god damn it i'm russian what's your excuse um yeah i'm definitely not russian so i don't know You just have, I think a lot of people in the gym by default project like. Seriousness. Yeah. Of course you're in the gym. You're supposed to go. Yeah.

Speaking of incline benching, what, the fives on each side? That's kind of what your current training is, right? It's lighter than that. I'm really trying to focus on the body muscle connection. So last episode, we ended up...

I just took over the whole episode. Make it all about me. It's all about me, man. Fuck you, Mike. We're going to talk mostly about my training. I'm actually not taking the rest of the year off. I'm basically deloading now, like I'm done. I need some time. That higher frequency stuff just beats me up a little bit. But we said we were going to talk about your diet and training. So let's break it down, man. You've been getting leaner.

I've been getting leaner, man. Do you want the whole arc? Or do you want me to just tell you that I am training? I think you can give the whole arc. it's not a long mark so in 2024 summer i retired from bodybuilding to pursue more youtube and podcasting stuff that paid off really big and i always said i was going to come back and i took most of that year to do pretty close to TRT levels of total anabolic load.

I stopped training my legs for anything but mobility work, and I trained my arms and belts way more, trained the chest and my back and stuff too. And I... finally got a surgery to remove my love handle and lower back skin and fat cells in march of 2025 and then about Seven weeks after that, I had only been back to lifting very, very easy lifting for two weeks. So it was five weeks off, two weeks on. Seven weeks later, I got a DEXA done.

And I got a certain result, which I can't talk about right now because there'll be YouTube videos of a big splash mystery of what happened. But I was getting a pretty normal body fat and some decent amount of muscle mass. And then for about two and a half months during that summer, it started in May, basically, is when I got that deck. So about two and a half months, I started to train again.

you know, incrementally harder. And I kept my diet at like maintenance and I kept my gear to just TRT levels. And then after two and a half months, I took about three and a half months to increase the gear, decrease the calories. keep the steps at 10 000 per day and um make a real big change as far as fat percentages and so when just recently in mid-december

I stopped all the dieting, got all these body composition tests. We got a lot of tests, so there'll be YouTube videos about that. But now I'm in a bulking mode, but it's a very different kind of bulk. It's one of those no more than half a pound a week bulks, and it's lasting for only about 10 weeks. And really, it's not even that much because I aim to be within two to four pounds. of tissue from where I stopped the cut. So basically, I'm going to restart the cut.

just a little bit thicker, just literally maybe a percent or two fat higher. 10 pounds, half a pound a week would be five pounds. You said two to four pounds. Yeah. Yeah. So basically, yeah, just a little shy of half a pound a week of gain.

and so it sounds like i mean that's dude that sounds like a more or less maintenance to me it's some it's like a little bit it's like it's technically a bulk because it's an increase and the bulk is really good for recovering diet fatigue better than maintenance Because of the way we're coming up and down a little bit, it's not really linear, direct bulk. So I'm going to be doing that, and then I'll have...

Somewhere between 16 and 18 weeks of dieting after that. Real quick, did you plan that? Excuse me. I've had a little bit of a cold here, but have you, did you strategically do that? Because right now. You know, we're recording this right around Christmas time. Did you plan this so you could be, you know, bulking? You sort of enjoy holiday foods a little bit more during this period? Like, was that strategic? No, not at all. I was originally planning on dieting all the way through this.

But I was also planning on competing in summer of 26. And so at one point I... I just, you know, think about this kind of stuff all the time. Am I doing the right thing? Am I doing the right thing? Always second guessing, which is good because, you know, it keeps you sharp. I ended up hitting up Jared and I was like, hey, Jared. So I'm starting to think like.

I was going to end the diet like in mid-January because I had some trips lined up in mid-January. I couldn't diet anymore through those. I mean, I could. It would just be like annoying. Oh, yeah. It's silly. And so I was like, hey, you know, mid-January, I was going to... come off the diet and then it was going to take just like six weeks of lower gear and kind of chilling and then i was going to start dining again or i could kind of pull a cork now

in mid-December and have like eight to 10 weeks of diet break and break from like oral gear, for example, which tends to be a little over toxic. And he was like, 100%. So I talked to ChatGDT first. I gave him the two options and he was like, absolutely stop the dive now. It's not no contest. And then I talked to Jared. Jared was like, absolutely stop the dive now, no contest. And I never...

So I've had zero cheat meals since I stopped the diet. It's just been an increase in clean food. Like I eat more whole grain bread slices and carrots or some shit. That's what it is because... jared told me something that was really really brilliant because i didn't want to walk away and i was so prep brained

In the best way, I was so laser-focused on continuing to get leaner because I had been dieting, Nick, and shit was just happening, happening, happening, happening. My physique looked better, better, better, better. I was like, I don't want to stop this. And Jared's like, think about it this way. You're done in your hypocaloric phase.

but you're not done prepping. You're still in prep. And that prep continues for these 10 weeks and it continues for the 18 weeks after. Just for 10 weeks, you'll gain a little bit and then you'll lose a ship out over 18 weeks. So keeping that prep mindset was huge. And Jared's going to be coaching you through the next prep. I mean, that's super safe. Listen, all the fucking respect in the world, just from my own personal perspective.

Dude, when I had a diet, it's hard for me not to go a little ham. It's hard. That's why I asked if you strategically did it, because for me, I would absolutely. The photo shoot was about a month ago. Actually, a little over a month ago now.

And I was like, yeah, I absolutely want to be done so I can kind of eat whatever I want through Thanksgiving, through the holidays. Not a whole lot of travel, but listen, if I'm going to travel, I like to be, you know, I went to New York a couple of weeks ago, had some pizza, whatever. I just kind of eat whatever I want.

But I'm also, again, my steps stay high. I'm not going crazy. I'm just working out the whole time. So I'm not gaining weight too fast. That's a really good way to look at it though, man. It just takes a lot of willpower. You know, for me, it takes a little bit of willpower, but mostly just takes desire. I had like, it's just going to get real lame. I had a realization.

time ago, and this realization is staying with me. I just don't care about getting mean anymore. I don't have a goal to get mean. I've been eating a bunch. I don't care. I want the max level. I want to get fucking healed. And so to me, because I want to get fucking peeled, this making sure I don't regain a dozen pounds of body fat over the next few months.

is a humongous ingredient to that. And so because I have something I want, it's the desire of that thing that makes me restrict my food easy. It makes me restricting my food. It's not even easy. It's what I want to do. i don't want to like if you're like hey like right now go eat a bunch of pizza i'll be like no i don't want to do that and so it's a big deal nick nice well you're gonna have to do it for us then

Last weekend I had a bunch of pizzas. First time I had probably, I had one slice of pizza. It was a big slice of pizza in New York, like New York style pizza. Yeah. But, um, i ate half a pizza it's a place called mellow mushroom down here in charlotte it was great their toppings are like crazy i mean dude it was so greasy i was like oh that's a lot of fat i don't know if i need all that but hey turns out i did

yeah um pizza's for the soul it's not for the body correct correct so there's that there's that and then this is like dragon ball z clip but that pops up in my head over and over the last few weeks and it was when i would look at myself in the mirror and be like well i'm getting really lean and anyone who knows this clip is

gonna be like oh my god is he really citing this that's gonna be a little funny so nerd alert what earlier yeah this is very old school reference so prince the same prince vegeta had spent much of his life trying to attain this new status called super saiyan right he was going to ascend and become ways 10 times stronger than he was before and he finally did it only like literally a few episodes later

this new android like broke his arm in combat like crippled him and he thought the super saiyan thing was going to be enough for her but it wasn't she was just that much better and she talked that shit too and she one of her quote was it was like something like you worked so hard for so little and

And then she added, like, you know, they'll be scraping you up off the highway or something like that. And there was a point later in the series where Vegeta goes off, his arm is healed because he's saying, healed right away. And he's standing on this cliff, and her voice is going through his head. They worked so hard for so little. They worked so hard for so little. And he, like, at that point, realizes that he's got to go to some other totally different place.

to go another huge ascension dldr he goes in the hyperbolic time chamber it comes out a year later he doesn't even fight that android because the monster that's chasing her that she would get killed instantly by he just goes and toys without monsters he didn't ascend beyond her he sent him beyond beyond and that every time i nowadays that i get leaner he works so hard for so little thing that gets in my head

And I go, fuck this. Fuck this lean bullshit. No. Like, okay, I've got abs. I've got veins. I don't care. I don't care. I want more. I want the next level. That's been a thing in my head. And if I stay healthy... they think it's going to lead to some kind of interesting stuff down the road if you want something bad enough yeah it's not really a trade-off it's just like okay this is what you do yeah okay love it

You want to talk about the diet training and everything that I use to get from blah looking to pretty cool looking. Real quick, when you were talking about going to the next level, when I was in contest prep. I would, you're going to make fun of me for this, but I would listen to a song by Eminem called higher. And one of the lyrics is part of it is where am I supposed to go from here? Really? I have no idea. All I know.

it's every time i think i hit my ceiling well he says i go higher than i've ever been but i in my head i always switch higher to leaner i was like let's go baby There's something really magical about seeing the mountaintop covered in clouds and wondering, how high does that thing go? And if I take one more step, will I be okay? Okay, I'm okay.

and just taking another step and another step and another step there's something magical that search for ascension i showed you the picture i was at the top of the empire state building when i was in new york recently and i took a picture and

a handful of the buildings were literally in the clouds that is one of the coolest things to look over and see could you imagine living at like that level one of those buildings you're like oh i can't actually see outside today because i paid so much for my view and now it's a cloud

I'm literally in the clouds. But being in the clouds, you pay good money for that. That's a good view. Sure should do, especially in Manhattan. Fuck, dude. That's like $150 million per apartment or whatever. It's totally insane. Yep. It's great. Better be a nice doorman. Yeah. I love the New York City skyline, man. It's gorgeous. It's beyond words. Yep. Yeah. Let's diet training. Yep. Let's do it.

I will fill people in on the supplement stuff on YouTube, but basically I went from around 150 milligrams of total antigen to about 750 milligrams of total antigen during three and a half months. And then the diet was actually super, super straightforward. So I was pushing at roughly 2,700 kcals per day.

And just a few times I backed up to 3,500 for a few days to recharge and then I would just keep pushing. So it was fundamentally the dives. Almost all of it was around 2,700 Kcals per day. And that was not you in the deficit.

Huge deficits. My maintenance is basically 3,500. And so 2,700 is like 700 K cows on the whole or some shit. And I felt that I was losing weight past. And I was layering in anabolics, which tend to keep your weight going up. And so my weight loss didn't look like a ton on the graph, but under the hood, I mean, I lost, fuck, dude. I lost 20 pounds fat.

during that time and gain like 10 pounds of muscle or something. We also had the advantage of basically re-comping coming back from a long break of no training. Huge, huge re-comp. Right? But I re-comped before the diet started, at least somewhat, but I kept re-comping. I also hadn't trained legs, and now I train legs, so my legs keep getting bigger. And so all that's really good. So 2,700k counts. And that gets us into about...

300 to 320 grams of protein per day. Menno Henselman's has an idea that people on gear need more protein, and I was curious about it. I'm having this more protein now, and obviously it's difficult to tell what's working and what's not. There's too many variables, but sure, it seems like it doesn't not work. Not a wrench in the machine.

How did you come up with that number then? Because you weigh, what, 220, let's call it right now? Yeah, it was like right around 1.5X, right? Interesting. How does that toy with your fat intake? Because I assume you have to eat more protein, right? So if you're eating more meat, that obviously is going to increase your fat. I get mega thick meals, and they just don't have a lot of fat in them, bro. So it's just really lean proteins?

Yeah. Like one of the meals has 70 grams of protein and seven grams of fat. And it tastes like it. You're like, this chicken has no bad in it for sure. Yeah. Where'd all the happiness go? Somewhere else. Yeah, because I kind of got to go. If you're going ground turkey, you got to do like 93.7 or like the 99.1 shit. I just, I was talking to a friend recently. Like, oh yeah, I'm pretty sure I use the 93.7.

Or the, no, no, no, no, no. Here's what it was. Like, yeah, I'm pretty sure I used 99.1, like the leanest ground turkey. And I'm like, oh yeah? You would know if you're using the 99.1 shit. You would know. You would know because you're eating rubber. turkey that is normal like even 93.7 it's so good it's good it's such a great tasting meat and then you eat the 99.1 shit and you're like i've had sawdust that was way better than this yeah

You know, if you're eating the 99.1 shit, a lot of times I would get the 85.15. Sometimes you drain some of the fat off. So I was probably more like a 90.10, but that's real good stuff. it's a real good stuff you know turkey burger or that you can eat it all day so roughly 300 to 320 grams of protein roughly 40 to 60 grams of fat on most days And the rest carbs. So depending on the day, 150 to 300 grams of carbs, depending on how the fat's laid out and stuff like that.

And I spread that over multiple meals. We're going to have videos about all this super in-depth. There's going to be a day of the life video where you see all of my full day of eating, every single meal that I eat. But it's really just... A lot of it was starting the day with a protein shake. So like really how my day looked during much of this, it's a little different now, but start with wake up and just write it a cardio walk.

Yet 5,000 steps, 4,000, 5,000 steps knocked out right away. Usually listening to audiobooks or something like that. And then I would have a protein shake, 75 grams of protein, little fat, little carbs. and then go to work. And then I would work for a while, and then I would have another protein shake, but with some whole grain bread. And then two or three hours later, after more work, I would go to train. During training,

I would have protein and carbs from Gatorade. And then I would have an element stick and a whole bunch of fluids all mixed together. I love it. It's the new way I do shakes. I never want to go back. Anytime I'm traveling now. for work or for leisure and i don't have my giant shake of protein and gatorade and um what's it called uh element i'm like pissed i'm like but so i have that during training what kind of what flavor element do you use

I just don't care. It's all great. I just don't give a fuck, man. I don't basically discriminate on flavors. One of the fruity flavors, I assume, if you're mixing it in with Gatorade. okay come on you use like come on you don't use that chocolate stuff do you in like a fruity game i don't think i have any of the chocolate directly around me but i probably would use it and they're like oh that's weird or i'd be like ah that's great

The element gets pretty overwhelmed by the Gatorade protein. Do you think it complements each other? Because I'll say, if you throw in a genius shot, I'm talking like the OG genius shots. I use the OG Genius shots because I work in infinity of them. And I put two of those shots in with 30 grams of Gatorade. And like, it seems to be like three flavor.

of element and i put that into about like two liters of water and it's like the greatest workout intro post-workout drink i think the og genius shots enhance the taste of gatorade if i have a excuse me if i have a gatorade bottle like by itself

like if i get from the store from traveling i'm like i don't like this i mix in the genius shot i'm like this is better this is amazing yeah it's like it makes it taste more like candy and then so so i have that and then i would uh after training i would have a bigger meal Whole foods of like chicken, white rice, whole grain bread, veggies. And then I would have, you know, several hours of leisure or work or whatever is on agenda. And I would have another meal of usually, again, megafit meal.

of ground beef, veggies, a couple slices of fat-free cheese on that mug. It's a great meal. And then typically that would be like my last meal or I would have some other protein snack to get my protein in. A couple hours later, I would go to bed. And that was really the repeat. So every meal is like 50 to...

75, 50 to 80 grams of protein, five meals a day usually. And the carbs varied according to timing and training and the fats were relatively small and mostly, almost exclusively healthy foods. if i was on the go and i was going to record with scott the video guy i would just grab like four pure protein bars and just smash them and that's like 80 grams of protein 20 grams of fat 60 grams of carbs it's a amazing new replacement

So that was really my diet for almost the entire time. For folks listening at home, you might want to ease into the four pure protein bars at once. Unless you like peeing out of your ass. If you like it, yeah, ease into peeing. That's kind of the situation. One more question on diet. Did you notice or have you noticed when you increase your protein? Because normally you would be what, like 250 before this?

um 250. so now let's say you're at 320. so that's what uh 25 increase something like that maybe 30 percent have you noticed How does it impact your appetite, your hunger? Too many variables to tell. I can't tell. I'm on so many anorectic drugs that I can't tell which way is up and down anymore.

okay fair enough all right okay thank you mike um but uh yeah so and also there's good reason to believe the past getting enough protein it doesn't really affect satiety anymore it can be like annoying to eat There are better things to eat than more protein up those levels than just veggies. If you're fat, you can also go up, yes. Yeah, well, look, fats. People say, you know, one of the things, my favorite things about like...

health magazines in the 90s and 2000s would give you little tips. Eat fats because fats are satiating. Like, you know, shit, there's nine calories a gram. They better be satiating, goddammit. But like... It's like, oh, you want a good purchase? Buy a Lexus and you'll really love your car. Like, yeah, for $80,000, I don't love my goddamn car. Not exactly a steal there.

and so i just thought that was hilarious way of putting it um because they put it like a recommendation like oh do you have hunger trouble eat fat like no hold on a second the yellow that absolutely solved your hunger trouble it would also unsolve your body composition problem Don't eat tasty fats. You eat the nuts with salt. Dude, there's one study where unsalted almonds, people had ad libitum. They were just allowed to eat as many almonds as they want.

the almonds group lost weight compared to the not almonds group there's so many almonds you can eat until you're like i don't even want food anymore this is bullshit yeah unsalted almonds are like whoa cool and you're first like if you're dieting like bodybuilding dieting you're like oh this is amazing you have like one handful Someone's like, do you want more? You're like, no. Do these come chocolate covered? I'm good. I'm good. Totally good. Pistachios. Absolutely.

can get it though and there's no limit to that nick has anyone tried to make pistachio butter you know i shouldn't even be asking that it's probably a real bad idea it probably exists it probably tastes like like gods She is. That's aggressive. Okay. It's an aggressive metaphor. Okay. So that was my diet. I had 10,000 steps every day, and this is actually a real big revelation to me.

So what I've been doing for the last 15 years is experimenting at the extremes with my diet and training. Very low volume, very high volume, very close to failure, very far from failure, very low cardio, very high cardio, very low drugs, very high drugs, everything in between. And now...

For this last prep and now for this next one, I'm actually doing stuff that isn't nearly as risky. It's just like pretty conventional what I've known for years, but you only know what you know if you test the limits, right? you test the boundaries. Like if you're running a race pace and you think this is my race pace and in training, you would never try to run faster or slower than your race pace to see if you can go longer or if you can get the same distance faster.

people will cloud you and laugh at you rightfully so because you'll be like how you know this is your race like you could be paced five seconds faster than this and be a national qualifier just never managed to move the needle so i had to find my race pace and Now I'm just using my space space. And so for me, one of the big revelations was, and as you guys, this does not extend to everyone. Everyone has this number, I think, but everyone's number is going to be a little different.

There's a number of steps that you can take that is a lot of steps. It really gets the metabolism going. It makes you feel great. It's great for your health. And it doesn't fatigue you like crazy. So on the bottom end, we have... Great for health. Enough steps to calorie burn a ton to get that body recomposition thing going. On the top end of the limiter is like massive fatigue. Like your feet hurt, your knees hurt, your hips hurt. You're like too tired to walk.

Even if you get your steps in, like I've had some business phone call days where I talked to you and Yasha and Andrew, our head engineer and COO. uh separately on one hour calls each and i'll just pace for that entire time like oh i have 18 000 steps one day of 18 000 feels cool

Three days of 18,000 feels like I don't have legs anymore. My entire body is like my meat, not exercising to the thermogenesis, my like in proclivity to just be moving and have energy. It's just gone. And so what I learned over time was. Anything in the 12K plus area is unsustainable for me. Anything in the 8K and below area is nominally easy. So for this fat loss phase, I'm just pegging at 10.

And 10 doesn't even take that much time. The problem with 12 and 14 steps is just take way more time. Because 14K steps takes like 35 or 40 minutes per day longer than fucking 10,000 steps. And if your lifestyle can accommodate it and it doesn't fatigue you, the more steps, the better.

But for me, 10,000 was like, doesn't fatigue me, super accommodating, but it's like a good amount of steps. Nick, it's been a fucking dream. I don't struggle to make steps meet almost any day. Some days I'm like, oh, that was easy. I guess I should just sit down now. Other days, I'm like, oh, I need another 2,000. All right, get up and go walk around. And that's not hard. And so I'm in this Goldilocks zone of steps. Same thing for deficit. I run 2,200 calorie.

intakes before on diets just zaps you within four or five days you're just a ghost i've also tried to diet on 3100 calories and i did down to like six percent body fat but like it's not robust enough to cut in real deep in a reasonable timeframe. So that 27, anywhere between 26 and 2800. calories per day for me is like a really awesome robust very effective cut but it's not gonna burn me out like wow question okay so as you diet body starts to adapt a little bit so my question would be

Well, wouldn't you have to adapt your calories down a little bit more throughout that whole phase? Nope, because my 2,600 or 2,700 or 2,800 are like 500 to 700 calorie deficit. And that's already really big. And so what I'll do is run those for a few weeks and then take two or three days of maintenance or slight surplus eating and then come back to them. And each time your body adapts a little more, you lose a little bit less weight.

But you can't keep losing the same amount of weight when you get real lean. Like if you're driving between 15% and 10% or between 20% and 15% body fat, you should make adjustments to just keep losing at the same rate. Once you get below 10%,

You actually can't die at the same rate. Imagine trying to land the space shuttle. You enter the atmosphere at 18,000 miles an hour, and then you try to land the shuttle at 18,000 miles an hour. Not going to happen. You're just going to hit the ground and blow up.

So you've got to slow the shuttle down close to where it lands so that it can actually hit the runway at a decent speed. And so that is something that happens with contest prep that needs to be respected. Eric Helms just got into the lake. Oh, he's 42 years old, 43. He got the shape of his life, size and leanness at the same time. His prep diet took like 30 plus weeks of a lot of moving in and out of deficits and stuff, really going slow. So for me...

I'm respecting the fuck out of that process. Here's another interesting way to consider it. Physiologically, through various hormonal axes, What your body really knows pretty well is what fraction of fat in total are you losing per week. Not amount, not percent, fraction. And so, for example, if you lose, let's say you have 20 pounds of fat on your body and you lose five, you lost a quarter of your fat, right? That's going to cost you a certain amount of diet fatigue.

If you lose from 15 pounds of fat to 10 pounds of fat, you lose those five. 33. It's a third. And your body fucks with you if it's a third. Way harder. trying to get your diet adjusted to lose another five after you just lost five if you're already very lean. If you're not lean, fuck it, who cares? That's how the RP Diet Coach app works. If you're already super fucking lean, you got to slow it down. Not slow it down down, but just the same rate.

25%, 25%. So that means you lose five pounds, then maybe you lose four or three and a half. Then in another month, you lose two and a half or three. When you look at it, it's the same fraction every time or a similar fraction. Man. losing that much fat at some point is the really, really gets fucking gnarly. And so you got to kind of really ease the fat off the body. And that's something that I've tried to bludgeon through.

before and it does not work if you bludgeon through your fatigue skyrockets your body water gets crazy but if you ease it off and it's a smooth ride you just get leaner all the time I actually thought you were going to say, well, with certain pharmaceuticals, including GLPs and or thyroid drugs, you don't have to worry about that as much. But that makes sense. I think people do overlook that percentage.

Because people just get caught up on the number. Oh, I need to lose X amount per week. Well, okay, that should titrate down. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Well, once you get really lean, under 10% fat, it has to titrate down. Almost everyone was unanimous on that. So really what it ends up being is like, you end up having, if you're, this is kind of how the wisdom of, I'll say the bros, but like the wisdom of like the traditional approaches is revealed.

there's plenty they do wrong but there's plenty they do right one of the things like you ask a typical bodybuilder like hey what's what are you doing for diet they'll give you one diet like this is my prep diet And you're like, with one number of calories, proteins, carbs, and fats, the same diet. So you do the same diet on change for 16 weeks. And this gets you in shape. But what happens is at first, the diet works really quickly.

Later, the diet works slowly. That's when you want it to work slowly because quickly by then would just fatigue the absolute dog shit out of you and ruin your look. And so for me, it really just, I know what my prep diet works like. In the next prep, it'll be 2,600 calories. And when I back off, it'll be like 3,500. Push and pull, push and pull, push and pull. And that's basically how you get to where you need to go.

Almost universally used coaching method by most pro coaches at this point. I guess I've just never really done that before. Yeah, if you do, it'll be amazing. Yeah, if I ever compete on a pro show, I might. that might be the approach because i've just always had the as it gets closer calories slowly go down cardio slowly goes up yeah it works really well until you really mean that it just too much

But you do need more time for this kind of approach. Yeah. Okay. Final thoughts. That's kind of diet training and the whole arc.

Training, I didn't talk about a single time, but basically I did the same kind of training. A couple of different experiments during this little prep, but what I've solidified now and I'm using now that I love is I do... pull legs push rest repeat pull legs push rest repeat yeah And what's really, because in the app, in the Apertrophy app, I have a six-day split because it's two three-day options, all with different exercises and slightly different rep ranges, slightly different focuses.

But what I end up doing there is I take a day off between day three and four, and then I take a day off between six and one of the next week, and it's good to go. The cool thing about that is I can auto-regulate deload if I'm really fatigued. three days at slight surplus, high carbs, 3,700 calories. And the first day, I don't do anything. The second day, I do just like basically like a 10-minute below mobility workout. And then the third day, I don't do anything.

Those three-day periods give me like two weeks more of fatigue reduction push. And so that works really well. But that's what I do. And then for the days themselves... For pull day, I do mostly vertical back stuff, and I'm spamming volume, like a ton of stuff. Spamming sounds like it's accidental. Very much increasing the volume. Tolerance is really good.

And then I do a shitload of, I do a little bit of rowing. So vertical pulling is crazy dominant. Rowing is much less because my back thickness is like ridiculous compared to my width. It's also more fatiguing rows in general. Yes, absolutely. And so I've been like less fatigued.

have to roll much when you do row are you doing more um cable flexion rows and machine rows i was gonna say so less like bent over rows which again are more fatiguing more yeah i put my time into those yeah and my thickness is like look when thickness is a problem for me that would be amazing because my physical looks so wide and ridiculous but also like that's the case i know exactly how to get thick it's easy like

i you know i made the bed row my own for a generation a decade and so yeah i love it so i could i miss not being able to row happy but you know i don't need it right now And so every pole day, I would also do a shitload of delts and a shitload of biceps. And then leg day is in order, hams, quads, then glutes, one exercise each. And then push day is a bunch of chest and triceps and then a bunch of shoulders and a bunch of biceps. And pull day is a lot more shoulders and a lot less biceps.

Push day is a lot more biceps, a lot less shoulders, but both are hit very hard on both. And then what I do is in my warmups for all three of those days for pull day. I don't do any kind of warm-up, but I do forearms after at the very end. So twice a week, more or less, I get my forearms hit. Leg day, I warm up with abs. So I do one set, one myorep set of abs because I'm trying my abs a little bit for jujitsu and stuff. It's nice. And then for push, I warm up every time with calves.

So I just do my calves as a warmup because calves, one of those things, man, once you've built a good calf mass, you can just get on like the hack squat and do hack squat calves for like a total of two minutes, just my rep it. and you're done you know what i mean like you still need to spend i mean there's no i'm not training calves for a session the one exercise done by a rep styles it's two minutes long and it keeps my calves nice and big and it even grows them so are you still training

No, I haven't trained jujitsu in about half a year. It is, it is destroying my soul. It's making me fucking miserable. I fucking hate it, but it is what I have to do in order to have my main goal of putting the physique on stage, which I really think is like, that's cool.

that i like that look hasn't happened for me yet well and so agreed same realization i had several years ago it's like i can't literally can't do both but i'll be i'll be doing jiu-jitsu sooner than later but it'll be like mostly technique Because I've also done some theoretical work in jujitsu in the last couple of years and realized that training live and hard is a gigantic misunderstanding. Most people do too much of it.

Well, it's because I think people just really like it. They really like it. It's ego stuff, which is fun. That's why we do Jiu-Jitsu, but to get good and to do the ego stuff is different. I heard an interview with Gordon Ryan. who's trained by John Donahue as the greatest mind in Jiu-Jitsu of all time. And Gordon said that he trains like six days a week, twice a day for like two hours in Jiu-Jitsu. And he said,

once a day or at most once every session. He's probably doing like 10 rolls minimum, right? 10 six minute notes. One of those in any session is with one of the guys in his gym that could give him a hard time. There's Giancarlo Hedoni, I think is his name. He's like a fucking stud. He's jacked, giant, super technical. He can beat top 10 guys. That guy gives Gordon Ryan real serious trouble. Gordon only does one role with Giancarlo.

per session sometimes fewer the other roles he does against like blue and purple belts which for him is like drilling basically that allows him to not get his body beat to death and gives him unreal numbers of successful reps on his technique. Successful reps on technique are what actually makes you good at technique. That realization is massive.

And so when I'm coming back to jujitsu, I'm just going to drill a lot. Nobody likes to drill a lot. I'm just going to roll with smaller belts that are skinnier. Can't hurt me as much. And I don't have to hurt myself trying on them too hard. And so just getting slick, slick, slick, slick, slick is the way to go. So I can't wait to get back to jujitsu. But for the time being, yeah, no jujitsu. Yep. Got it. So yeah, so that's training, cardio.

diet and the whole arc. Closing thoughts? Yeah, closing thoughts is like I'm using less gear, a third less gear than I've ever used for something like this, which is cool. I feel amazing. Surprisingly or not, I have a little YouTube video about all this. I have almost all the muscle I've ever put on. It's just cool. And also, I have to get a shout-out to Trisepatide and Rotatratide because... Without them, we are merely leaves in the wind, Mr. Nick Shaw. Why'd you mention both?

Transepatide is the only one that's available through prescription right now. Retatretide will be in 2026, almost certainly, but it's not here yet. So I want folks listening to have the option to take a real drug that would have to go on the gray market to find. But I also want to mention both because for full transparency, I absolutely use retatrachide as well as trisapatide. Together at the same time? Yeah. Interesting. Trisapatide base.

Never changes. And then retatratide gets layered on top of that only when cutting. Because retatratide also gives you crazy mental and physical energy because it liberates a shitload of energy for you. It makes you hotter. It's an active fat burner. And so taking it when you're just maintaining and living your best life and gaining is like possible at low doses, but a bit of a strange flex. And so your appetite is cheaper.

more research vetted to be safe, even though retractor time is a miracle drug. So I just take Terp usually and just take Retta on top when I need to cut. And I mean, with Terp and Retta, I lost. so much visceral fat, the dex, I can't find my visceral fat anymore, my intra-abdominal fat. It's a health elixir. Tore's appetite is a fucking health elixir.

Did you say terzapatite or retatratide? Terzapatite is a health elixir. Retatratide needs more vetting, but it's almost certainly a health elixir as well. I was going to say, I was like, that's, yeah. Everyone in the bodybuilding community can't believe that Retta is a real thing. I tend to agree. Yeah. There's going to be like a shift where a few years ago, people are going to look back at 2022 and be like, whoa, we dieted without like Retta. That was much real wild.

And red is just the beginning. They got drugs and development now, but they run up like a goddamn. I remember. I remember my diet in 2022. It's not so much fun. No. Yeah. It is very interesting. Um, bodybuilding is going to be really interesting here in the next few years. Yeah. When non-androgenic anabolics come out, it'll be another change because most people will stop using steroids at nearly the dosages they are now, or maybe altogether.

I know we talked about this at a dinner last week when you were in town for a day, but the natural bodybuilding thing of banning GLP is just really, really interesting. I like it. I think it's true to brand. You want to be natural? It's got to be natural all around. Not even, it's like GLPs are just healthier for you than being natural. But bodybuilding naturally never really was about health. It was about the vibe. Great vibe.

All the respect in the world. But it's going to be a thing where, like I'll tell you this, you'll be able to in 2029, almost certainly, bodybuild by taking non-antrogenic anabolics, TRT. and whatever version of retatribe is the best thing on the market for fat loss. And you're just going to have a better time, get in way better shape, and be even healthier than if you were natural. And the appeal of natural bodybuilding then could be different.

Right now, it's a great deal because you don't poison yourself with fucking steroids or a really natural bodybuilding. When that's no longer the case, it'll be a different vibe. You're totally right. But this is different because these are health-promoting drugs. Yeah. Yeah. Already. Yeah. So once the anabolics go, once the steroids go for bodybuilding, you're like, wait, I don't want to. Yeah. All right. Those are closing thoughts. You good?

I'm good, man. I'm excited about my body. That sounded erogenous. I'm excited about your body. Keep sending me pictures, Mike. Yeah, Nick's like, you guys, for full transparency, Nick says he's like, he's not my coach, but he's kind of my manager. He's not really my manager. He just, like, for your success, you need to keep sending me these pictures. I want to be successful, so I'm like, okay, sir, you bet. Yeah.

Nothing weird about that, is it? It's weird at all. I'm like assistant coach. Jared's a real coach. I'm just like the assistant coach. What do I do? Nothing. What's the title? Yeah. With your pictures printed out on them. Yes. Printed out stacks. Yeah. Multiple copies of the same picture too. I got to compare week over week, bro. Yeah. Are you getting leaner? I don't know.

You're like, honestly, after looking at your picks, I don't know, but I know what I like. Oh, man. Good stuff. All right. Boy, geez, I think on this next episode that we do, this is the last episode of the year. So I wish everyone a happy new year. Happy new year. Guys, Merry Christmas. Happy Hanukkah. Happy Kwanzaa. You feel me? I don't know where Ramadan is, but Ramadan vibes like crazy.

all your holidays out there you feel me just do anything for new years yeah my friends and i are having a little get together uh we usually like It's called sacrificing a goat, but we sacrifice a goat typically. The blood gods, Nick, they don't really like you to start the new year without at least showing up some love. How about you? What are you sacrificing this year?

My love of Michigan athletics. I'm going to the Michigan bowl game, but I'm not even excited for us. I'll be in Florida for. You shut your mouth and be excited for it. You're not a fair weather fan. It's hard to get excited right now, man. Just. Nick. They disappoint me. Listen, when I'm there, I'll be excited. I'll be rooting for him, of course. But like right now, I'm just like, oh, God.

Do you think if you're a Michigan player, you like hearing Mr. Nick Shaw, your biggest fan, rolling their eyes on a podcast at you? They need support, these guys. Michigan basketball team is arguably the number one team in the country right now. So there we go. Yo! So there you go. All right, folks. Thanks so much for tuning in. Thanks for hanging in there with us this entire year. We will catch you in 2026. Yahoo. Peace, homies.