She said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood.
I'm tiff. This is Role with the Punches and we're turning life's hardest hits into wins. Nobody wants to go to court, and don't. My friends are test Art Family Lawyers. Know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution. Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in all areas of family law to facto and same sex couples, custody and children, family violence and intervention orders, property settlements
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Please be aware that during this episode we do talk about the topic of suicide. If you're feeling fragile today, maybe it's worth holding off until you're feeling a little bit better and able to engage with the content.
Doroth this await, Welcome to Roll with the Punches.
Thanks too great to be here with you.
How are you on this fine day up there in Queensland?
Yeah, I'm traveling pretty well today. Actually all good for me and I don't know, it's not quite it's not quite warm here, but it's not that cold either, so I.
Feel I jumped on zoom last night and had a chat to one of my good friends up in Queensland who said, got mug boots on or got the blanky on and she said, and it's still and it's twenty seven degrees and I wanted to punch here in the face. And so as you sit here today saying oh it's no, no, no, don, I would not accept it. You are in paradise compared to Melbourne's brutal rot that it calls weather.
Yeah, yeah, indeed, we definitely can't complain they're a bit soft though, because we are used to the warmer weather. Right. Well, this is the thing.
And I've always said I'm from Australia, obviously, I'm from Tazzy originally, and everyone always comes at me with it each but eased of they're cold, and I'm like, yeah, but I have I feel like Melbourne goes to the extremes in summer and the extremes in winter, which gives you no baseline to get comfortable with. It's like, it's too bloody hot in summer, I can't cope, and then it's too bloody cold in winter. I can't cope, and I probably don't. I don't dress appropriately for either.
Yeah, I can always change in the course of the day in Melbourne as well.
Right, Yeah, that's exactly right. Hey, would you like to give a little intro to yourself, to myself and my audience?
Yeah, sure. So obviously I live in Brisbane. I have my own business called Mentally Wealthy, and we provide training solutions to organizations to help create mentally healthier workplaces. So I've got a passion for mental health and resilience and that really comes from my personal lived experience of having a very significant mental health crisis. My story would have actually featured on an episode of Australian Story which aired in twenty seventeen, So I'm not sure if you knew that.
No I didn't.
I'm like, I'm going to have to go and watch that now.
Yeah, it still is available via their website and they did a wonderful job with it. So yeah, back in twenty twelve, while I was working as a human resources professional, I had a crisis of confidence, had an argument at work with somebody and it sort of triggered a chain reaction and yeah, unfortunately I started to be plagued by really negative thoughts, and it all happened in a relatively
short time, sort of like seven to ten days. Having said that, I think the cracks were always there, like you know, like many people, I have some childhood trauma and you know, other sort of adverse life events that have obviously sort of affected my mental health. But generally I was known as a really positive person, enthusiastic, happy, go lucky, and nobody foresaw that I would actually get to a point where I made an attempt on my life. So it's really big things. Yeah.
I listened to a little bit of like I said to you before, just a little bit of a podcast that you've done a few years ago talking about your experience, and I really warmed to listening to it because it sounded like a very unique and relatable version of events that was just struck me as being so like ordinary and inverted commas, Like you know, we think that there's there's something I'm really big on this whole, like a I don't know, I feel like I go for the
jugular on the whole, you know this or that kind of attitude of giving answers. It's like, oh, well, this is resilience, and it's like, no, maybe maybe that's resilience and maybe it's dissociation. Like maybe Tip getting in the boxing ring and fighting is is resilience and toughness, or maybe it wasn't tough because she was. What she discovered later is she was kind of just a little bit dissociated in that environment, which was real strength in the
boxing ring. So that's maybe and maybe that's a good thing in that environment if you're aware. So it's that whole nuance around Yeah, but maybe.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Look, I think this topic is quite complex, and you know, it's individuals are complex. People are human are very complex, and so I personally don't think that anyone is immune to a suicidal crisis. You just never know what's going to happen in life. You know, we get curveballs all the time, and you know, in my circumstances, I often think of it now as like a perfect storm.
You know, this sort of collision of the challenge that I had at work and my history and it just created, unfortunately, quite a catastrophic situation and you know, may very well have resulted in me no longer being around. So yeah,
thankfully that wasn't the outcome. Thankfully. I woke up in hospital and very soon after came to the conclusion that I must be meant to be here, and I became very interested in why it happened, you know, how I could avoid it happening again, and what I was going to do next, because I thought, if this can happen in my life, I think maybe I'm not on the
right path. And so I left my corporate job. Interestingly, I set up my own business A sort of year and a half later, I would say, so, I did some additional studies, sort of transitioned from HR to being a career coach, and yeah, set up my own business, which I often marvel at because I think if anything will test your mental health, it's running your own business.
Yeah, correct her.
Yeah, So to do that with Bragio mental health, I think is quite interesting. But you know, mostly it's been good. There's been a few little sort of challenges along the way, but yeah, that's sort of where I went next. And after seven years as a career coach, I had this feeling I wanted to be one to many, not to not one to one, and I became a mental health estaid instructor and ultimately sort of four and a half years ago, transition full time into mental health and resilience.
So we have sort of tailored programs. We have a suite of programs for our clients. I don't do one on one work. It's really sort of training and speaking, and I love it and it feels like a way to have transformed what was sort of one of my biggest challenges into something that's helpful to other people.
Yeah, it's to think that in seven days, that an experience can create an onset of a seven day turnaround from being perceived mentally well and doing life to having made an attempt on that life. Can you share a little bit about the experience of that as much as you'd a little or as much as you'd like to, and that you'd think would be valuable.
Yeah. Sure. So after that sort of incident at work and having these sort of self doubts come up, like I said, it sort of triggered this chain reaction. So everything that I was sort of experiencing, I was seeing through this lens of I'm not good enough, there's something wrong with me, and that stuff had been there, but I'd done years of psychotherapy. I thought that I put it all to bed, but yeah, I just felt so much doubt. I remember walking out of meetings and thinking, Oh,
they know you've got no idea what you're doing. I was doing something new in the organization I worked for. I was on a project and I was leading a small team, which was the first time I'd done that in that company, and I'd been there sixteen years at
the time. So yeah, this nagging doubt was just there, and the voice got louder and louder, and you know, it would have been great to reach out to somebody and let them know what was going on, but I felt if I did that that I would be broadcasting that I was a failure and I just my ego whatever, I could not cope with that. I just kept it to myself. And yeah, like hid what was going on. And at the time, my partner was away. He rarely
went away. I think it was he went on a boys trip in his comby with a mate, and so we're about four years into our relationship then, and I didn't want to tell him what was going on because he'd never really gone away on a trip before, and so, you know, didn't want to spoil that for him, and the leader that I had at the time, as she was away overseas as well. So you know, I think there were just these little things that you know, contributed
to that perfect storm, if you know what I mean. So, yeah, just the voice was louder and louder, and I started to think that I'll get sacked from work, which you know, in hindsight, sixteen years in with a good performance record, that was extremely unlikely. But you know, when we get into this mindset, we're not rational, and so you know, and the fact I wasn't talking to anyone about what was going on, you know, then thoughts just got out
of control. And then like the thought of losing my job, you know, I was just like, oh my god, I'm going to be a terrible role model to my son. He was only two at the time this happened. And my partner had this property at townhouse when we met, and not long before this, I talked him into refinancing it to be better for our families' finances. And I just thought, if I lose my job, we're going to lose that house. And that was his townhouse and that
was his batchpad. So I just felt this high percent of responsibility which is related to my childhood, and I just felt like I was basically mucking everything up, and so I just couldn't think of a way forward or how to get myself out of the mess. And yeah, I just in the end was like, I I can't I can't handle this. I don't know how to fix it. And I think the best solution would be that I'm not here. My family will be better off without me.
And so yeah, Unfortunately, on the twelfth of August twenty twelve, I made an attempt on my life. And as I said, it's actually been featured in austraighted story, So maybe if some of the listeners are interested, they could check that out. Yeah, and thankfully I survived that experience, and I'm so grateful.
And I've actually had a second suicidal crisis that not everybody knows about about two years ago and a bit over two years ago, and it played out very differently because last time I didn't speak to anybody, and this time, you know, I talked to my partner about what I was going through. I got in to see a psychologist. I had friends around me that knew what was happening. So I was talking about things and I got help, and it never actually escalated to the point of me
making another attempt. I certainly had ideation, and it was such an interesting experience because I didn't think it could happen to me again, because you know, I work in this space, and you know I've got such a really solid resilience toolkit. Now, yeah, just didn't really didn't think it was possible, and I actually felt quite this is a strong web. But I felt disgusted in myself, to be honest, I felt like, who am I that when the going gets tough, I want to like exit stage left.
I was like, what is that? Like, where does that come from?
That?
I think that's appropriate of that my mind wants to go there. And I did talk to the psychologist who was treating me about that, and he said, it's sort of like the ultimate escape fantasy. But you know, for somebody like me, you know there's a real risk because I had this previous attempt. So yeah, that was a really interesting experience, and it was sort of nine weeks of being in a really challenging place where I had
these thoughts just constantly plaguing me. And after nine weeks I actually got to a point where I actually went and had a coffee with a friend and she said, how are you? What's been happening? And the time I'd seen her last was just before i'd started to unravel, and I shared with her what had been going on, and she was really shocked and was like, oh, my goodness, you know, I can't believe that. I wish you had
to call me all of that stuff. Thankfully, I was speaking to some friends, but after we met, I realized that I'd gone to that coffee catch up feeling okay, like feeling well enough that day, but when I left, I actually felt really down again, and I felt like I felt almost like hopeless again. And I was like, wow, like that's a really interesting energy. How did I go
from where I was to that? And I sort of realized that by talking about it, it was like I dropped back into the energy almost like I was, you know, marinating in that again. And I was just like, wow, like this isn't how I want to feel at all? How do I want to feel? And so I really started to think about reflect on, you know, what is it I want? What is it I want to feel? What is it I want to exist in my life? And I thought you know, I want my phone to
ring for my business. You know, I want to feel joyful, and you know I want to feel connected. And so I really just sort of channeled this sort of feeling and thought, right, I don't have to talk to everybody about what's going on. I'm already getting professional help. I've got a handful of friends that I'm speaking to. I don't actually think it's serving me to just keep going over what has been going on in my brain and my life the past sort of a couple of months.
And so, yeah, it was just this moment of Nope, this is I'm going to step into what it is that I actually want to feel. And from that point I was able to just turn things around again, which was pretty Yeah, felt great.
Wow, thank you for sharing that when you what I was going to ask, And I guess it applies to both scenarios, but especially that first one where you woke up in hospital. What was what did it feel like?
Or what?
How do you grasp a sense of self when when a part of you has taken the wheel and acted not in your best interests in it? So, like, how do we separate the emotion and the actions and the decisions from the person that's experiencing that, because I think that's the hardest part for people is like I do this action, but I want to live and I just want to like it. And for those of us who haven't experienced that, it's it's like, how do we get a grasp of the understanding on that.
Yeah, right when I woke up in the hospital, like it just felt surreal, I actually lost a lot of time. So I've got a black spot in terms of what happened on that afternoon. I knew, you know, what I had done, but yeah, like I said, that was a black spot. And so I woke up like really disoriented. You know, I didn't know where I was, felt really hot and uncomfortable. It had had these hypothermia blankets on me, and I was in like the er and you know,
there's really bright lights. My mother in law was there in my partner, and so I was really shocked because it wasn't the outcome I expected. And so yeah, once I sort of worked out what had gone on, Yeah, I just sort of process that, and as I said, fortunately for me, I thought I must be meant to be here, because I don't think that is the conclusion for everybody.
You know.
I've certainly heard of people saying, oh my gosh, I've failed at that as well. Thankfully that wasn't the reaction
that happened for me. But yeah, it was really difficult to sort of process that I had that I had done this, that I, you know, had taken that sort of action, because, like I said, I was a sort of person that no one would think would do that, including me, including me, you know, just like you know, really happy person, positive, cheerful, you know, people would say to me when I was young and even as an adult, like I want whatever you're on, you know, and that
wasn't a mask, that is my disposition. But it seems that sometimes I I can just experience such incredible self doubt and shame. I think shame's a really big part of all of this. Shame is huge. I think it's definitely something that can put people at risk of suicide. Shame, and so yeah, it's yeah, it wasn't a difficult. It wasn't an easy situation to reconcile at all. And I think like from both of those experiences, one of the biggest takeaways is really just that it's not the answer.
It's never the answer, and that we are always changing and our circumstances are always changing as well, and so it's just so important that we can like hang on and hang in there and that the people around us have some idea how to support us if we're having sort of suicidal thoughts or even just experiencing mental health problems, because you know, that's the start of it usually, and so you know, letting people know that it's temporary, that all of that feelings are temporary.
I wrote down before when you were talking, I wrote down what's holding me together? And because I was thinking of like that understanding of what are the things that are holding us together that when and we may not be aware of it, but when they a few of those links disappear in a moment like the perfect storm you described, that we then end up like hanging in
another space momentarily. It's and it's it just makes me kind of also think about that, reflecting on what you know, the difference between coping mechanisms and how much and I guess it's more of the for me, the awareness of them. Are we aware of how we're coping? And coping is
not a bad thing or a good thing. It's just a thing, and there's you know, there's a continuum, and there's a level of coping we just have to do in life, and there's also a level of maybe self exploration or healing or whatever our journey, for lack of a better word requires. What do you have any thoughts on those types of things? Yeah?
Sure, Look, I think ideally we want to thrive. We want to spend as much time as we can thriving. And I think you're absolutely right self awareness is part of that and healing because we all have some form of trauma, right. I remember years ago I was at like a it was like a personal growth sort of experience. We sort of sat in circle for a few days and everyone was sort of addressing their stuff, so to speak.
And I met this beautiful girl there who was much younger than me, and I gave her a lift after the retreat. And during the retreat, I realized that she had had, you know, some pretty challenging childhood experiences. And I said, oh my gosh, I just feel so sad that you had to go through that. You know, it just doesn't seem fair, you know, the way life happens sometimes. And she said to me, Donna you know, we've all got trauma, right, like, you know, it's not a matter
of my trauma's bigger than your trauma. And she said, look, if you've led this charmed life, you know, your first relationship breakup can be your trauma. You know, like it's it's about how we respond to this stuff and how we feel about this stuff and the messages we take from it and everything and so and the baggage that we take forward from those experiences. And what she said really resonated with me. You know, I think that there are a lot of people walking around in our communities
that have trauma. There are a lot of people with shame, and a lot of people don't know what to do with this stuff, you know, and so yeah, I think all of that can put us at risk of mental health problems. And you know, in terms of that, you know, spectrum of coping. You know, coping is this great and it's a it's partly you know what resilience is our ability to cope with the challenges of life. But sometimes that coping can be adaptive, you know, like having practices
like breathing, you know, techniques. I'm a cyclist, riding my bicycle is my happy place. I would do and even if it wasn't good for you, because it makes me so happy, right, And so that's obviously adaptive, you know, going to the gym, you know, eating nutrition, nutritious food. But then lots of us have maladaptive strategies, so you know, obviously drinking could be one of those, or drinking excessively eating you know, food. For many of us, we have
an interesting relationship with food. It's comfort, you know, the same you know, it could be said for even TV. And so it's sort of like, what what are we getting from this experience? You know, because often we're just numbing, you know, it's a coping strategy of just not feeling that emptiness inside or you know, the negative self talk or you know, the racing thoughts, all of that stuff.
So you know, I like to think that I have really good resilience practices now, but you know, two years ago that wasn't even enough to stop me from having suicidal thoughts again. And so I really love the statement
that resilience is a state, it's not a trait. And so you know, it's something that we can build, but you know, there are times when it can be really tested if we have new challenges in our life, you know, if we're things are rocky with our relationship, or you know, we've just start a new job, or oh my gosh, you've just had a baby. We do you might need some additional or different resilience practices right now, you know. Yeah, does that answer the question, do you think?
Tiv Yeah, one hundred percent. And it touches on another thing. I rant and rave about a lot, which is the you know, like the how to build resilience and it people it's such a selling point to carry on about doing the hard things. Yeah, you know, go do a hard workout, Go get in a cold fucking shower, go and do the Go do a marathon, Go push yourself, push yourself pushes like without context. Like sometimes people's hard thing is actually the easy thing that lets them run
from the thing that's really hard. Like it's not about the hard thing. It's about the thing you don't want to do or the thing that you're trying to avoid. But that just gets left out of the conversation because it's not sex and you can't sell that. Yeah, and yeah, I just think that you touched on that perfectly.
Then Yeah, that's a really good point what you just raised, right, because like I used to just have this history of trying to prove myself because I always thought there was something wrong with me.
You know.
So I went to UNI as a mature aid student, you know, set myself a goal of you know, getting the Chairman's Award or whatever. You know, it just worked so hard, practically got Stevens. You know, like my GPA was six point two and then you know, I rode from Sydney to the Gold Coast twice. I've done the Kokoda track and your guinea. It was like I was always trying to prove to myself and to other people that I was okay. So yeah, I agree with what
you're saying. Sometimes we're running from things or I guess it comes from it relates to where is this coming from? Is this coming from or is it coming from love or you know some other positive sort of emotion.
Yeah, Like for me, being still is harder than being busy and do it. Like getting in the boxing ring that was easy. Like I remember in my early thirties when I just started boxing and you know, i'd had one or two fights and early thirties, so you know, you're not twenty anymore, and it was like, sometimes I get home from work. I've got a full time job, and I'm like, really, just I'm too tired. I'd probably show a day off. I'll just I'll just go for
a walk. And the overwhelming sense of dread and loneliness would overcome me on a walk and I would be like, what the F is this? Like what is this? Because being still and quiet gave me that space. But I just hadn't needed to do that before, because I spent my younger years just go, go go, I'll just keep I'll just do something different. I'll just show you so that I can believe it myself, how tough and independent and bloody brilliant I am totally tiff.
You know that resonates completely with me, but I think it will with lots of your listeners too, you know, if they actually stop and think about it. You know, often we're just you know, I mentioned the numbing sort of activities we engage in that being busy is absolutely one of them as well. Yeah, yeah, we're just on that hamster well because it's a little scary when you stop, you know, and you have space.
Yeah, and I'm sure you're the same, like you've you've jumped into this area of having a business to make a difference. So a business where you're you're learning and you're improving and then you're passing on that knowledge and it's fascinating. And that's a bit like what this podcast was for me. It was like, how who could I talk to to learn and share the learning and figure
it out? How comes? Some people get punched in the face and they rise, and some people get punched in the face and they fall, And you know it was I was talking to one of my close friends recently and I was like, you know, I tell that story.
I just told you.
Then I tell that as a story where I, you know, I'm walking along since killed a road and I'm burst into tears and I feel those feelings and I'm like, what the hell?
You know?
I'm too what is this? And there's been moments this year that I have a smaller but a familiar experience where I stop the race and I just go how can I It's a decade on and I've told that story for a decade, and I've made changes, and I've done healing and I've worked on myself and I've figured stuff out and then there'll be a moment and I'm like, that's familiar. We're still We're still here at times, bloody hell.
It's frustrating sometimes.
Yeah, yeah, it's like you know that self awareness is brilliant and incredibly frustrating as well, because like once you open that box, once you peel that layer back, you can't put that layer back on and go back to your blissful ignorance. It's like, oh, we know what's under the hood now, Yeah, there's no option but to do the work, you know.
And such a big fan of the saying we know better, we do better as well, it's like it almost feels like an obligation now we know, you know, yeah, we address this.
Yeah. I also think it's really beautiful. Like I think of watching the world want to, you know, falling into what we we tend to seek or believe or do, and that is that overwhelming sense of I just have to get through this so that life can be better.
But actually I've said this a lot now, it's like, actually, little do I know, maybe today's the very best circumstances that I'm ever going to have in my life, and maybe like a moment before something unfolding or me learning something that's going to challenge me, and how much of our lives do we miss being grateful for the now it's always I've just got to get through this and to get to the good part of my life where
everything's easy and feels good. And it's like, no, because feeling good is relative.
Yeah, yeah, it's not a destination, right, We've got to be able to incorporate it into the journey.
Yeah, nothing that's bad ever stays as bad as it was, but neither there's any of the good stuff. And it's like, oh, well, better just get good enjoying now, I better just get good at being present. Yes, what are some of the what are some of the things that maybe you learned or implemented along the way that were quite pivotal for you personally?
Yeah, okay, gratitude is definitely one of them. A massive fan of gratitude. It's got a great evidence base. Now, But I've had a practice that's been going on for seven years and it consists of me and at the moment there's three of us at one stage that used to be four of us, and we text three things that we're grateful for every day. So I think five is a great maximum number to have in this sort of practice, because you've got to read everyone's gratitudes every day.
But yeah, it blew me away. I heard about this practice from a woman called Pam Grout who was interviewed on a podcast I've listened to, and she's got a great little book called Sank and Grow Rich, and so she called them her power Posse, her little gratitude group.
And so that wasn't pussy, was it was possy because that could mean very different things.
Yeah, so when I heard about it, I was like, oh gosh, I want some of that. So I asked a friend if she'd liked to do it with me, and so started with two of us, and then we decided to invite some like a mutual friend, and then we sort of ultimately grew it to five. And so either on the actual day in the evening we text three things were grateful for, or the next morning for the day before. And what I love about it is you have accountability. People are expecting to receive your gratitude.
You get a reminder when theirs comes in. Because I would often write it in a journal and forget when I went to bed, remember when I went to bed. But what I think is one of its most amazing benefits. And as far as I recall, you know, Pam didn't speak about this, but you actually get to vicariously live the joy of other people in the group. And that just blew my mind because it's like you're witnessing other people's lives. And as you can appreciate, in seven years,
a lot has happened in all of our lives. You know, someone fell in love for the first time. You know, one of our members lost her husband. You know, a grandchild. All of this stuff. I mean, they're the big things, but honestly, it's about the little things. You know. It's about for me, exchanging a smile in the supermarket, someone letting me in the traffic. You know, my son and I am solving a problem last night. He's got a part time job at macas and we couldn't get the
act to work and we solved that. And so, you know, it's these little things, but savoring those things actually helps your mindset. I love the saying every day is not good, but there is good in every day, and so we've got that part of our brain called the rats or the articular activating system and it tunes into whatever we pay attention to. So when you see the good, you see more good and so you know, that is so amazing for our mental health and well being. So that's been a really big one.
I'm going to implement that. I'm going to get the power posey. I love it. One of my favorite practices is I can't remember which podcast or book or who said it. Now, I think you might have been doctor Daniel Aim and for some reason, he's hopping into my head what went well today? And it's a version of gratitude practice, but without without calling it that, and it was just it was beautiful because it was it was like sneaky gratitude. It wasn't looking for hunting for it.
It was like, you know what, like you don't even have to feel thankful, just what went well. And for me it was it was a double whemmy because it highlighted productivity when we're so prone to focus on all the things we didn't do. Yeah, I'm so behind, I'm so behind, and that's I would write some of the things. I'm like, shit, I did all that that I'm grateful for, and look at all this fun stuff that tumbled out of my head as well.
It's amazing, awesome, that's a great practice.
Yeah, yeah, what else have you got that I can?
I mentioned cycling. You know, I call it your thing. So whatever your thing is. You know, I've got a
friend who it's building model airplanes. You know, it can be golf, it can be near dancing, and you know, I say to people, look, if you don't know what it is like, just be curious and you know, go out and try new things because when you find it, if it was your cubs so beautifully, you know, I say to people, you know you'll recognize it when you know, like five hours will feel like fifteen minutes doing it
because you're so in the zone. You know, you lose you lose that sort of concept of time because you're just loving what you're doing. But afterwards you feel energized. You know, you feel good. It makes you feel joyful. So cycling is a big one for me. So back when I have my mental health crisis, I had stopped cycling. As I said, I had a two year old and it took me seven years to get back on the bike. And a coach saying to me, wow, you light up when you do that, Like, why aren't you doing it?
And I said, well, because I've got this little child, and you know, it's really hard. My partner starts work at he leaves for work at twenty past five, you know, five six days a week actually, and he was like, you need to find a way, and so I did. I asked my mother in lawa if my son could sleep over one night a week so I could get off and cycle on Friday mornings. And he did that for a couple of years. Nowadays, he's just about to turn fifteen, so I can leave him at home by himself.
But I still cycle. You know, I've been back on it sort of seven or eight years and I can't give it up. But even when I had that crisis a couple of years ago, I didn't stop cycling. I stopped riding with my usual group because I got sick of everyone saying, gee, John, know what's wrong. You're not yourself. We're so used to laughing the whole ride, and I was a bit like, oh, I just don't want to talk about what's happening, and so I just rode by myself. I went and rode up Mount Kuther a little so
the hill. We got here, you know, on Sundays by myself, you know, And then I shared with a friend what was going on, and her and I rode while she was sort of trying to get back into cycling. And so, yeah, look, whatever their thing is, whatever your thing is, but we must have a thing. And I think it can be useful to think back to childhood too, what brought you joy as a little person, you know what, because I
think it can give us some real clues. You know, maybe it was maybe it was bike riding, you know, maybe it was doing some rowing at school, or you know, all sorts of different activities. It's about reconnecting with that.
Yeah, I reckon also doing the thing, about doing things that are not my usual thing, like doing things unlike me. Once upon a time, boxing was not me, wasn't the thing I did, and then it become my greatest love. This year, I bought a digital piano. I was like, what's something that I can spend my time doing that's hard to learn, that takes dedication, that gives me mindfulness and creativity, but is nothing like me or any of
the people that I'm hanging out with. And I was like, fucking yeah, one of those awesome.
Yeah, I love it.
Yeah, and you find pieces of yourself. I think we developed identities that are just a facad. I went to India last year and I couldn't wait to see who was underneath all of the parts of me that were just consumed by Tiff the boxer, Tiff the podcast, a tip in the gym, the gym chick, the fit chick, the chick that's always in a muscle tea. It was like, I don't want to be in a muscle tea with
roll with the punch is written on it. I want to be on a mountain with people that are that are not like the people I hang out with every day and see who I am underneath all that, because I'm someone different and all those other parts and me got left behind somewhere.
Yeah. Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah, And that really is getting into your anu layers tips. Yeah.
I remember being in that space and having the epiphany that's like, I've only been a boxer for ten of my forty two years or twelve of my forty two years or whatever it is now. Yeah, and I've only been a podcaster for five of them, so that's like thirty over thirty five or thirty eight or whatever the years that I wasn't that yet. I cling to these things with white knuckles, like, well, this is who I am. No, that's who you've shown the world you are, that's who
that's who they reflect back to you. But who actually are you? There's so much more like you could be anyone anywhere.
Absolutely. I was in a career coaching workshop years ago and the facilitator of that program, he's quite well known in like sort of career coaching academically and practically, and he said, he asked us, did we think we knew ourselves? And we had to put up a hand if we think thought we did, and I put my hand up. This would have been probably twelve years ago, and he really challenged us on it, and it made sense, like he's like, you haven't been in every situation in life
to know how you would respond to different circumstances. And it really does make sense. You know, we think we know each other, but we haven't lost a child, you know, touch woods, you know we haven't. We haven't been in some circumstances, many circumstances, you know that we would never know how we would respond to those situations. So yeah, it makes so much sense to me and what you're saying.
It's one of the things I loved about that, especially that first one. That experience in the boxing ring is I met a version of me that I never knew existed. You can't pretend, you can't pretend in that situation. You just respond and then you're left with the reality, not the story. And I've told stories for years. Oh look at the fucking story. Like, we have emotions and then we act on them, and then we tell the most comfortable version of story that fits that that we can
sit with. And it's like, Nope, in the ring, you a punch comes at your face and you either punch back or you cower, and that it's one to the other. And there's no telling a bloody story because everyone can see it, and so you have to and then if you want to change it or you've got a lot of work to do, you've got a lot of and you've got to walk in and do that work in the hard place. Yeah, like it's bloody awesome. I love it. I miss it. I miss I miss daily punches in the face.
Oh gosh, I's still be a massive Muhammad Ali fan. When I was a kid, I just loved him so much, and my dad used to get us to like wrestle and box each other, my younger sister and I. So yeah, I'm surprised, surprised that I didn't pursue a career in boxing, because yeah, I've always been quite physical. But as an adult now, I I've really reflected on the fact that I actually think that I was like emotionally, like quite immature. I had no ability to express myself except physically, so
I would punch boys and I never punched girls. I would only ever punch boys. But yeah, I was very physical except for my sister and my dad had us in the boxing room, right, but he used to make me get down on my knees because she was shorter than me. But then when I was on my knees, it was this, it was like the opposite.
She was.
Carrying the same height difference but reversed and I was disadvantaged. So yeah, I think, you know, for some people without like you know, that ability to express you know, we can have some dysfunctional ways of doing that. And yeah, I'm not I don't punch people now, but even as like an eighteen year old and stuff. If I was talking to a guy and he said something, I would often, you know, just swing a hand at them or whatever. So yeah, interesting.
Yeah, it's a beautiful sport and it's one of my favorite things is introducing women to it that have never done anything remotely physical like that with their body, and you teach them the technique behind throwing a punch, so they end up so fully in their body right. It's you get an awareness on how you're where, you're feeling things and feeling your body in a different way, and then you're using it to exert power and it's visceral
like you. I can see the emotion come over them and it's the best ever because I know it because I because.
I lived it.
And I'm like, you've never done this before, You've never had you never knew your body could do this and that you were allowed to, and you've probably never tapped in and felt what it's like to be and your body like that. So good, get in the ring, sister.
Well, you know how I said I had the seven years off cycling. I did a boxing class for that seven years. It was like a boxing circuit class. We went each other. There's pads, and stuff. But I loved it. And the only reason I stopped was because it was a Saturday morning class and I cycle on Sundays, and I found it was like wasting my legs, wrecking my legs. I was like, all right, I've got priorities here, right, We've still got a bit of leg work back then.
Oh that's so good.
Well, you know what you were just saying about that being in your body. You know that so many of us struggle to me and our bodies, So you know, that's really amazing to hear that. That's you know, it comes with that experience. So yeah, yeah, Colas could use more of that in our lives.
Yeah. For me, I feel that looking back it it brought me into my boy and it invited me to feel first physically and then beneath that came up a bunch of emotion and then took me back into childhood ship that I thought i'd safely tucked away. And I was like, what's we left that behind? Like, that's a that's in a box that says do not open in the back of my mind. And you know, that's when I realized, you can't just you can't. Can't you can't hold silence and shame inside of you and just move
on from it. You have to process it. And Boxing asked me to do that and it was beautiful.
What a gift.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Love's amazing. That's amazing. What's next for you, Donna?
Ah, yeah, great question. Well right now, I'm in the midst of organizing a fundraising comedy event, so yeah, I'm excited about that. I've on a few men's mental health events and raise money for mental health charities. I'm an IOKA ambassador, so I love to raise money for them.
But yeah, this year, I decided to sign up for the Coast Trip Walk, So I'm just doing the thirty k's of the Sunny Coast Walk and part of that is to take on some fundraising and I really like the idea of giving people an experience rather than just asking people to donate money, and so I'm very excited about it. It's going to be on the fourth of July this year, and we our MC is a gentleman called called Mark mcconvill, who is, I believe Australia is
only a professional comedian with a master's in suicideology. So I'm very excited about having Mark with us. Oh wow, Yeah, a mutual friend introduced us. It turned out that we had been at A and Sidon had been I'd spoken at so I think we were always meant to connect. But yeah, that's going to be so cool. So we got Mark plus three comedians and yeah, that's gonna be
a hoot. So yeah, in the throes of organizing that, and you know what I said about the you know, challenges of business, and you know, earlier this year, I had a few things fall over in the business, like work that I thought was locked in, and you know, various things happened, and so it ended up being quieter, and I was in financial distress a little bit again, and financial distress is one of my triggers. And so I was actually really I was really happy with myself
that even though I had these challenges. I remember saying to a couple of friends, like, I actually feel pretty good, which is really interesting because you know, I probably you know, could easily be panicking or worrying right now because it's often quite well. It's generally quiet for me over December and January because I work in the corporate market and people don't train people at that time of the year.
And so you really have to have work in the pipeline in the new year, and I thought I had some and then that didn't happen. So you know, all of a sudden, I've gone twelve weeks with very little income, and so that was really quite challenging. But yeah, I actually, you know, sort of put a few things in place and feeling really good now and you know, just about to find out if we've been successful getting onto a
government panel for well being services. So and even if we don't get onto that, I'm actually really proud of having made it this far because I know that we're really really close, and it really just highlights that whole you don't know what's around the corner, and you know you mentioned earlier it might not be great what's around the corner, but it can be equally just freaking fantastic too, And you never know that unless you're hanging there and
see what's going to unfold, and it's that whole you know, nothing's permanent, and so yeah, hoping we'll get onto this government panel, you know, looking forward to doing more work
with organizations and my things training. I just love training people, and I really feel passionate about every astray and having the skill, the skills to recognize when they or somebody else is struggling and be able to navigate that, you know, navigate support, you know, whether it's for themselves or somebody else.
You know, how do we I think that's the only way that we can really have a positive impact on mental health and suicide rates in this country is by help by developing these skills in our community.
How can we find you? Follow you and get involved?
Oh amazing? So linked it. People can search for me on LinkedIn. I've got a website mentally Wealthy, which is a bit of a play on words w ebl thy. Yeah, and then yeah, I'm on Facebook as well, just in my own name again. Yeah, so I regularly post on LinkedIn. I run public mental health THEIRTH day courses. You know, I'm all about that, you know, imparting these skills on people.
I work with organizations to help create mentally healthier workplaces and you know, a big part of that is training as potential solutions, but also looking at the bigger picture too, because we can't just give people, you know, resilient skills and then you know, just throw shit at them. And you've got to look at the whole system of what's going on too, right, So I don't think resilience is the responsibility of an individual in the organization. I think
there's a joint responsibility. You know, it's a the organization doing their part as well making sure that they're creating a safe environment for their people.
I love this chat. Thanks he.
My pleasure. Tiff.
Yeah, no, I love what you're doing. I love what you share, and I think your really important voice in this space. So very my finger is a firmly crossed for the government than canel. I hope you find yourself on there. But whatever happens, I know that you're going to make a difference, So keep on doing what you're doing. Donna, thank you so much.
Thanks a lot. TIF take care. If you or anyone you know it is struggling, please reach out to Lifeline on thirteen eleven fourteen, or speak to somebody in your life.
She said, it's now and never.
I got fighting in my blood.
Got a trip aquit the coast Garter to
You the girls s got a lot of coast guard to