She said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood.
I'm Tiff.
This is Roll with the punches and we're turning life's hardest hits into wins. Nobody wants to go to court, and don't. My friends are test Art Family Lawyers. Know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution. Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in all areas of family law to facto and same sex couples, custody and children, family violence and intervention orders, property settlements
and financial agreements. Test Art is in your corner, so reach out to Mark and the team at www dot test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot au. Temmy Van w'sat Welcome to Roll with the Punches Tip.
It's great to see you, always great to beat you with you.
It's like we've been swimming around in circles, just passing each other in our in our bloody own. I don't know, I'm trying to make swimming around. You're just not working. There we go, thank you, thank you. I was like, come on, Tiff, think of something swimming. I'm like, no, you're not a good swimmer. You sung to the bottom and you crack the shits before you learned how to do it, So it's not gonna work.
Hey, we can't be good at everything.
Come on, like, you know, tell me that old have you got at all of the things?
That's your perfection's coming out right there? What what do you mean?
I learned a few things about you about five minutes ago.
Did you be interesting? You know?
I just went. I was like, I just go and have another look at TAM's website and I was looking at your one sheet you'll speak of one sheet, Yeah, and god, there's some cool stuff on there. For a start, you have a day named after you in New Jersey.
What I know, it's pretty cool. Look, yeah, something I never ever expected. So I did this swim over obviously in New York, New York to New Jersey. And I really wanted to do it because there was a there was a record that had stood in the history books for over eighty years, and the woman that held the record was a childhood hero of mine. Her name was Gertrude Edly, and she was from New Jersey. And she was also the first woman to ever swim in the
English Channel. And I look, I'm really sorry. One of the regrets in my life is that I never got to meet her, because I would have just absolutely loved it.
And she was just like a legend. Honestly, she paved the way for women in sports so many ways because when she attempted to sim the channel, obviously back in the early nineteen twenties, women you know, really were considered able to participate in sport, and and like there was they were running book books against you know, the odds against her making it, and people were laughing at her. And she went over and she not only became the first woman, but she also smashed the men's.
Record by over two hours. So it's a pretty cool story. Like, you know, I'm really I'm condensing her story.
She went through so much, like to get there and to do it, and even to find a trainer someone on a boat because you know, the men didn't believe she was good enough to swim it, so she struggled on.
So many fronts.
So I either thought it would be amazing to do the swim to highlight her contribution to women in sport and particularly you know, like I wouldn't have been marathon swimming without people like that. So you know, it's really nice to reflect back and you know, one of the people that have paved the way for you. So that's really what the swim was about. And I was really fortunate I didn't get to meet Gertrude, but I got to meet all her family, so she never had kids,
but all her nieces and nephews. We went out to dinner a couple of nights before the swim, and they were just telling me stories about her, and they also were on my support boat, which was just like, you know, it was so inspirational to have that kind of support.
And then when I finished the swim, I broke Gertrude's record by a bit over two hours, and as I walked up the beach, the mayor of Monmouth County in New Jersey actually you know, presented me with the certificate and said, you know, from this day forth, every twenty first of July, I will now be known as Tammy vanwis the day in honor of what you've done. So yeah, so it's really you know, it's yeah, I just cried, like honestly, because my whole motivation was really to.
Honor Gertrude and her contribution because I think, you.
Know, it's just so special and she encouraged so many women to learn how to swim and you know, to just open their world to what women can do in the sporting arena.
So it was very early days.
So I think, yeah, it's just it's a beautiful thing to have happened. So yeah, I'm really, really really humbled.
I don't know what say.
It's a beautiful thing. To have day named after you is certainly very unexpected.
It's so special. You just reminded me a previous guest not that long ago. Tara is a Australian Superbikes rider who this year was the first female to win a round in the Australian Superbikes the first female. And she's this young girl, twenty one. I believe, if my memory served me, which it really does, get punch in the
head a lot. But I said to her, and I think of this right now, it is so like that is a moment that not just lives in history, but changes the future because when girls see now like you saw, it's not just possible to do what the blokes do, it's also possible to win when we join them, it's possible to be first.
It breaks countries, it really does, you know, it's the it's the breaking of the thinking, you know, because let's face it, you know, in our minds we all sort of think, oh, you know, no one's ever done that before, and when the first person does it, and it's funny, it's you know, once one person doesn't, then you always see a flat of others sort of following along. So it's like that invisible barrier. And you're right, it is. It is more than just a win. It's a it's
a change in history. It's a changing thinking for generations to come that read that story or see that achievement and then go, wow, she did that, I could possibly do that, and then go on to do more. So yeah, it is. It is incredible. So I think it's just important that you know that we remember people like that because I think sometimes we forget, we don't realize, you know, for us to be able to participate in sport, there's been a lot of groundwork laid before we even get this.
So that was really, you know, what I wanted to do because I'd read about Gertrude and I just love your story. And actually there's there's a film about her life on Disney Channel and it's called Young Woman Against the Sea and it is incredible. So if you get a chance to watch it, or if any of your listeners want.
To watch a great movie on the Disney Channel, yeah, Young.
Woman Against the Sea and it basically goes through Gertrude's history and it's a really great movie. It's all based on that. So yeah, it's wonderful, Absolutely wonderful.
I love that.
How weird is it to both look up to women like that? But then, how long did it take you to realize you were one? When you became one?
Still still don't know.
I get that vibe. I get that vibe. By the way, you are one. You have a day named after you in New Jersey.
Yeah, today it's a bar of chocolate. Ah, whoa, I've trouble remembering my birthday, so, you.
Know, just slips through the cracks, but it is nice.
One of the other things I read on your any Career Highlights was one point five times around the planet? Is the distance equivalent to what you have swum? It's one point five times sixty five thousand kilometers. So the first question that popped into my head was what drives somebody to swim one and a half times around the planet? Swimming like, it's hard, it's dangerous, it feels inconsistent. Right, you're at the you're at the mercy of the weather
and the condition and all of the things. Tell me what's underneath that?
Yeah, well it's a very good question and probably something that I asked myself a.
Lot too over the years doing this.
But look, if I really peel all the layers back, i'd have to say it's curiosity. So for me, look, I wasn't a natural athlete, and in fact, in primary school I used to get teased because I was overweight as a child, and so I used to get teased a lot at school and I hated sports days. I hated when we had to remember in PRIMI schou I don't know whether you went through this, but you know
they used to pick teams. We'd go and play cricket or whatever, and you know, there'd be two captains and they'd have to choose all the members of the class and they'd move over to each side. And I dreaded that because I was always the last kid chosen, and you know they'd be arguing, I don't want her like you know what I mean. So for me, yeah, it wasn't a great experience, and so my parents put me into swimming lessons. I had something lessons when I was young,
like water familiarization. So at six months of age two, about five, and then I stopped and then we got a backyard pool for Christmas, so they put me back into lessons, proper formal lessons.
I was about nine.
Or ten, and at that stage I did not want to go to the pool, like honestly, but my parents were pretty pretty persistent, and in our household, you know, it was a safety thing, so I couldn't get out of it. So I guess, you know, I went under huge protest. I didn't want to be seen in favors. That was literally, you know, because I've been teased so much at school. The last thing you want to do is like parade around in a pair of dogs.
But no choice, so I did it.
And it was one of the you know, one of those situations where when you practice and you do something, you can discover, you know, new talents that you didn't
know that you had. And so, you know, I gradually learned how to swim, and you know, my teacher said, oh, you've actually got a bit of tower in this, and so I sort of worked my way through lessons and got asked to join the squad, and you know, and it was just really exciting for me because, you know, this revelation that I actually could participate in sport and
find something that I was good at. And so then I sort of, you know, did a bit of pool competition for a number of years and loved being under coaches and you know, I just loved being part of the squad. You know, something, for me, the most exciting part of it was actually the camaraderie and the friends that you make along the way, and that was really I loved training, not so much competition, person, but I
loved training, just love it. Love the whole getting to the pool and you know, pushing myself and getting feedback from the coach and yeah, just that whole, that whole environment. Really I thrive in that particular environment.
So I did that.
But my results, you know, were that great in the pool. I sort of you know, I won some states and national titles, some state titles, but when I went to nationals, you know, I really wasn't, you know, in the top echelon.
So I sort of got a bit jaded because my improvement didn't come and ran about thirteen fourteen, I joined a life staving club and so I was sort of doing a bit of open water stuff and learning new things in conjunction with sort of competition swimming, and I found that that really took over, and I started entering things like the Law and Peter pub and I want it like I was just like blown away.
And then I started to really like open water way more than the pool.
Just because you know, like it was you against the elements more than you know, being in a stagnant environment where you know, there's the lame ropes and really only you sort of tenth of a second improvements. So that really caught my imagination. And so the curiosity then began, like in doing these open water events, like okay, I've done this one, how much further can I go? So I do another one and you know, go from one point two k to five k to ten you know.
Then I did a twenty case and I, you know, never swum twenty k's before. And there was just this there was a race advertised in Port pilip Bay from Baumorris to Frankston, and I thought, you know what, I'll just have a going Yeah, And I remember I was so scared at the beginning because you know, I thought, why did I do this? You know, all the doubts crept in my mind, but I guess I kind of like got swept along.
And started the event.
And conditions were great at the beginning, but they turned at the halfway mark, and I was just petrified of everything in the open water, like particularly things with teeth, and I was like, so there were so many fears and doubts that I had to overcome. But I had
a strategy. I was swimming in a pack, like I just went help the leather and swam in the pack because I just let if anything happened, So I believed shark take someone else, and I could use my springing ability to get back into the you know, get back
into the shore. So anyway work because once the condition has changed, you know, people dropped off and I found myself on my own, and my mind just went, you know, in that moment of you know, looking down and I saw a shadow and then I went full Spielberg.
I've just learned about cookie cut of sharks.
Yes, over in Hawaii, there's been quite a few. Actually, yeah, I've been reading. There's been quite a few swimmers that have been trying to swim the Molokai Channel, And yeah, I think at certain times at dusk, yes, I know it is serious.
I would be in the grips of a great white then have a cookie cut of shark. Everybody, go and google cookie cut of shark bite and just have a look at what happens. Yes, little piranha look and things.
Well, maybe not because you may never get back in the water again, like, yeah, I probably don't know.
But luckily, you know, it depends on where you swim obviously, so you know, you've got to kind of weigh up things.
And that, you know what idea.
I went nuts and I swam faster than me and thought thinking that I'd seen a shark and of course it was nothing, and.
You know, as you do, and then of course, you know reality, you.
Know, the heart rate came back down and I realized that, you know, that fear, I could either you know, panic and fall in a heap, or you know, you can channel it, you know, And it actually gave me an adrenaline rush, and I thought, you know, come on, you're just being silly. You know, you're going to rationalizing and ask yourself the right questions when you're in those situations
and say, okay, well look it was nothing. And quite often we jump to conclusions, you know, so many times in life, we you know, we panic about things that are really quite minor and we just have to be able to.
Sort of breathe, which is what I did.
I just concentrated on my breathing, got my breathing back under control, you know, worked on my bilateral breathing again, you know, counting every three.
Okay, let's come now, start thinking properly, ask.
Yourself the right questions and realize, you know, hey, three quarters of the way, nothing's going to get me. I'm fine, just keep moving forward. So I did, and I ended up actually winning that twenty case whom I came third overall, and I was the first girl home, and the conditions were horrendous at the end, like out of the twenty
eight people that started, only twenty one finished. So and I just realized that I had this talent for endurance, like the further the distance than the harder it was, you know, I guess, you know, mentally, I.
Was just able to cope. And I kind of.
Bring that back to my parents, particularly my dad, because growing up My parents both immigrated to Australia back in the sixties. They came out on a boat from Holland and my dad lived through the tail end of World War Two and he was just a young boy at the time. But he used to tell us stories all the time, particularly you know about my grandfather who apparently walked like over eighty kilometers to go and get the family a loaf of bread through you know, Upied territory.
So I could have easily been killed.
So many little stories like that, and he always is to say, you'd be surprised what you can do, like your mind can do in credit, like if you learn to think properly, you know, and control your might, you can do amazing things.
And it always was something that he said.
And also to be humble, to appreciate, you know, the roof over our head and food on the table.
So I think having that as part.
Of my I guess, you know, feedback growing up hearing those kind of stories all the time. Also you know, channeled my thinking and so that that helped too. So I think that's why I ended up in the endurance side of things. Just yeah, genetically obviously that suited me. But the mindset was there for that type of event as well.
I love that when when you first started kind of talking about the open water compared to the pool, I started picturing and feeling an alliance between how I felt with boxing of this sense of I know. I felt like, I know I'm not the best, and I'm not the most talented, and I'm not necessary. I don't feel good at this at all. But what I do know is, however good I am, I know I can stay that good through the hardest shit. I know I can endure more for longer than you, not you, but everybody else.
And that was.
In the thick of the chaos, in the thick of the punches and the hard it was like, that's cool, I can deal with hard watch me. And that's how I felt listening to you talk about the open water, of like, Okay, I can do I can be this good for as long as it takes.
Absolutely absolutely, and that you know, And that's a that's a lot mindset that helps you through life because you know, when you think about it, you know you don't have to be fearless too. It's not about being fearless because we all live with fear and doubts and you know, question our ability or choices, and you know, wonder about
whether we can do things. But it's about taking that next step forward and believing that you know, even they can't see the finish line, trusting that you'll be able to get there and stay the course more than anything else, and taking those steps all the time. And that's you know, really excise me something that I think you know as being I just I am so grateful that I did marathons in me because it's really helped me through life.
Because we all face challenges and big waves, whether.
It in the boxing ring or in the you know, in the ocean, that it happens in life too. So the same mindset that you know we learn as athletes really transpose us into real life and helps you get through ordinary challenges as well.
Yeah, one last swimming thing I want to ask you about, because there's way, like I want you for about four days on this. There's so much but that the best like the only person to have ever swum the bast straight.
That that water in Tasmania, Victoria. Yeah, which is treacherous.
Well, I mean it's terrible enough getting on, but I've worked on the spirit of Tazzy Forrile, it was rough enough doing that crossing and paid for it in a cozy little boat. You're all crazy, But how does it feel to know, Okay, I did that cool, cool cal but no one else in the world has done it.
I know, I'm waiting for somebody to do it, because you know, those ones are put down so that somebody else can do it, right, And I did this in nineteen ninety six, So we're going on, you know, thirty years next year.
I can't believe it because I.
Have reunions with my crew, and we did have a twenty year reunion, so I think I need to pull my finger out and start organizing the.
Thirty Yeah, we're all still around thinking, but it's yeah, it's one of those conic Yeah.
Look, it was something you know, I was told it was impossible when I was thinking about doing it, because I didn't a lot of research and spoke to a lot of experienced mariners and Sydney the Hoebart yacht races, and I guess, you know, people project their I guess their fears onto you, not out of wanting to stop you, but I guess, you know, everybody has doubts about things.
So and when something hasn't been done before, you know, they tend to be even more negative about it, so I guess, and reasonably so, because you know, a boat crossing can be done a lot faster than a swim crossing, and it's it's a matter of, you know, do you get the luck with the weather. That's that's the big question. So not so much the distance, but it's just you know, can you handle the conditions that are going to be throwing it.
So that was the big challenge.
But my mindset was like, just because something hasn't been done before doesn't mean it can't. So I moved forward and I was able to have a wonderful support crew around me, you know, to help me with logistics, and you know, they all believed in the mission and they believed in me, and I think, you know, without that support, I wouldn't have been able to get that swim off the ground because you know, you can't do anything on your own.
You really do need a village, you know, to lift you up and pick you up.
Because there were so many times that you know, I'd take two steps forward and one back. I struggled to get sponsorship for the swim because nobody believed it was possible. So you know, I had to have a shark cage mate. And you know it's not like there's blueprints sitting around, like you know.
This is how you do it.
So we were really we're really adapting and creating new things the whole way along, because again, there was no training plan, so like, you know, how do you train for something like that?
How do you prepare your body?
You know, I had to be ready to swim in freezing waters for you know, I was thinking twenty to twenty four hours, you know, worst case scenario. So yeah, I was there weren't nutritionists around that could you know, offer you advice on how to cope with hypothermia, So I.
Mean, you know, I knew you had a For instance, I was trying.
To put on weight because that's quite often what you have to do to survive a swim in freezing water. You need to have the body fat to be able to cope so that you know, you don't get pulled out with hypothermia. So I was eating a lot of carbs and you know rice passaes at the beginning, but my training I was swimming. I'm going to say six hours a day, three in the morning, three in the afternoon.
So I was summing twenty sometimes twenty five k's a day, six days a week, going to the gym about three times. So I had pt and you know, strengthening the upper body to be able to punch through the waves. And you know, I was doing a little bit of cross training as well, so I was probably having a forty hour week of swimming and just you know, keeping myself fit, so eating enough to maintain.
How many calories was that?
Oh, goday, God, I wouldn't even know.
I wouldn't even know how to calculate it, because it was just yeah, if you think about it.
Like.
So to not only not only fuel that, but then to put on additional weight.
Correct, correct, Like you know, he asked me to put on weight when I'm not training, not a drum FA's with the dilemma of training that much and fueling just to keep up with what you're doing, let alone trying to you know, have additional weight.
And I was aiming to put on twelve kilos that was the goal. And so.
Traditional eating didn't work, so I reverted to eating cake, chocolate, you know, maccas KFC, you know, all the high fat foods as well as the carbs, and it was literally like a full time job trying to eat. So if I wasn't sleeping or assuming I was eating, I had doggie bags in the car with Mars bars and all sorts of things. So I was desperately trying to put on this weight because I knew the swim depended on it.
Like, you know, I laugh about it that.
You know, my brother was actually pulled out of the English Channel with hypothermia four kilometers away from the coast of France and he stopped breathing and he had.
To be resuscitated. So it's a very serious.
Factor that you have to deal with when you're in open water, and especially very cold open water. So I did manage to finally put on the weight and probably helped that I started from King Island because the dairy was eating all the cheeses and the cream and but yeah, so there were so many factors to consider and so many, you know, so many different things.
But my crew were just incredible.
And yeah, so we got we got over to King Island and we actually had to wait for seven days befo I got a window to swim because there was one hundred not winds blowing all around the che kilometers an hour.
Oh wow. Yeah. You literally had to lean forward to walk down the street. It was that it was that bad.
And were you like, is this a sign to you?
While I was looking out towards Victoria and obviously, you know, most days you couldn't see it, and you know, and there's these waves that are as tall as you know, small buildings basically, and so again, you know, you have to keep your mindset positive and you have to believe in yourself and believe that you're going to get the opportunity.
To do it.
And I had to wait seven days, but finally I got a little teeny tiny window and it wasn't perfect, but conditions sort of settled a little bit, and like many things, that's you know, having the courage to start. It was the hardest part, probably standing on the shore and going right, this is it got to go. And I'm very lucky that I've had Dawn Fraser in my support crew as well. She's been my mentor for many, many years. And so Dawn was over on King Island and on my boat for the swim, and she kind
of gave me a little whisper in the air. I think she can see, you know, the fear and the doubt excise me bubbling away inside me, and she kind of said, you've got this done, all the training, Let's do it. And so off I went and swam out to my support boat anchored about a couple of kilometers away, and climbed on board the shark cage and off we went and a venture.
Of a light tim. I tell you the probably some of.
The toughest eighteen hours that I've never had to go through in my life, because, you know, we the swells were incredible. We had three to four meter swells most of the way. And my fisherman said to me, he worked out in the Straits for thirty years in fishing scollops, and he said to me, you're so lucky that it.
Is so calm. And that was three to four meter swells.
So it was a battle for me being in the shark cage because I was smashed around from side to side, and.
I really how big is a shark cage.
Shark cage was five meters wide, seven meters long, two meters deep, so you could park two small in it, like the size of a small garage.
Yeah, right, big, big on land.
Were there sharks out there? Did you see them?
I did not, so it was very lucky. Didn't see anything, thank goodness. Not not on that particular swim anyway, so we were fortunate. So yeah, yeah, I felt protected in the cage as well.
I had it made out of amply missed security or materials.
I saw an ad for Valerie Taylor, the diver, and she used to dive with sharks all the time and her cages were always made out of the amply missed security dormitories.
I thought, you know what, it's good enough for Belve, good enough for me.
But of course there was never any footage back in those days like you see on YouTube now with.
The sharks jumping. I could have been in massive trouble if I had one that jumped.
Oh god.
But anyway, we were worried about that. I'm here and I've got all my limbs intact.
Eighteen hours. I was going to ask how long it took souse.
I wasn't aware, and yeah, seventeen hours and forty six minutes it took me to go from King Island to a Holidays. So yeah, it was a long journey. And probably the hardest part. I started at quarter to six in the evening because that's sort of when we just
got this window break. And to be honest with you, I didn't really have that many more options anyway, because I only had enough money to last for seven days, like to be able to house the crew, and you know, because they'd all taken time off work, they were all volunteers. So you know, it was an incredible just so incredible when I think back that we just got this chance. On the seventh day, could in the evening and we headed off, and like I said, it was pretty eerie
swimming in the night as well. So swimming in the dark is fairly is a whole other mindset because you really are isolated. You can't see your support crew as well, you can't read messages on the whiteboard.
You know, it's a quiet time. It's just hard.
You're very much in your own mind trying to negotiate all the time, really because the body, you know, starts telling you that I want to give up, as you would know, and it's about negotiating for it to go that little bit further. You know, hey, come on, hold on, you can keep going. So I managed to get through the night. By the time the sun rose, I was pretty shattered, and to be honest with you, my crew were actually preparing to extract me. They thought I wasn't
going to make it. I was so down and out, like I really, you know, I ended up. I was crying in my goggles. I was so broken. I literally
had just survived the night. And then I had a like a swarm of jellyfish invaded the cage, and the tentacles stung me on the face and they got me on the lips and inside my mouth, and it was kind of like the straw that broke the camel's back because I was so cold, I was so tired, was exhausted from just surviving the swells, and things had just calmed, and then, you know, I thought I had a little reprieve, and then the jellyfish came, and so I just.
I just started crying.
My gog was I kind of had a bit of a funny moment where I laughed to myself and thought, yet, great, more salt water, because my tears were salt, and I was just salt.
Order had permeated everywhere.
And so I had my throat and tongue was swollen up from the salt water. So I was struggling to take down sustenance. My stomach was churning because again I'd ingested salt order during the night. I had welts under my arms because saltiers very embracing, and so from the repetition of the arms turning over, I had massive welts under my arms. That just that, you know, the pain that seared every time I took another strike, just you know, another reminder of you know, the.
Bad shape that I was in. But the jellyfish just really you know, with the icing on the cake.
And so I remember, I actually and I know, and as I said, I could see all the crew they looked. I knew they were preparing. I knew what the process was to get me out, and I knew they were preparing. And I turned around to Dawn and I said, you know, how long have I got? Like, what's the worst case scenario? I was trying to prepare my mind to think, okay,
how much further I got to go? And so I saw her go away and chat to the navigator, and she came back and she said to me, look, worst case scenario, you've got another six hours left, and to be honest with you, it almost broke me hearing six hours because I was finding it difficult to concentrate on
the next six minutes, let alone six hours. So I really had to dig very very deep mentally and just concentrate on one really, really small thing and just say, Okay, it's six hours out of a whole life to do something that no one else has done before and tolerate a little bit of pain, So come on, let's get back to the job.
And I fell back.
Into a pattern that I practiced during my training when I was really tired, and that was just counting my strokes. So I'd count sort of up to twenty and then start again, count up to twenty, start again, and my goal was just to get to the next speed stop
because I was feeding every half an hour. So it was literally, let's break this down to the smallest possible thing that I can do in this moment, you know, just to build a bit of momentum, because quite often when you're broken, you just need something to get the momentum back. And once you get your momentum, then you know, your mind starts to come on board and you can
get to that next phase. So I was literally building my momentum, and I think I was swimming for about fifteen minutes, and then I started to hear this amazing clicking noise under the water, and I saw the crew all pointing to something in the distance, and I had
an idea of what it might be. But within a couple of minutes, I had a pot of about thirty world dolphins swimming all around my cage, all underneath me, and the clarity of the water investrates such that I could see literally you know them alls, you know, sort of swimming around me.
And they were so noisy.
Literally for me, that was so noisy under the water, and I was just like in seventh Heaven. And I remember I turned around and I said, to doorn, you know right, stop the boat. I want to get out of the cage. I want to play with my dolphin mates for just a.
Couple of minutes.
And it was just one of those moments, you know, when sometimes you just need to build your bucket, you know, replended spirit. And even though I knew I was taking time away and tides could change and things, this is what I needed in that moment to you know, charge my battery back up again. And so I climbed out of the cage and I had the most incredible.
Experience with the dolphins. They were just so close to me.
There were a couple of baby dolphins in the pot and they were literally, like, you know, that close to me, and I was so inquisitive, and you know, just watching them and how they swam, you know, just made me feel like pretty insignificant because they were just so graceful moving through the water. But I kind of felt like they were there for a purpose and a reason and a kind of saying to me.
Come on, you can do this. So I was recharged.
I jumped back in the cage and kind of it was a real pivotal moment for me. And again my thinking became very.
Steady at that point. But yeah, I'm going to make it. Nothing's going to stop me now.
So you know, the dolphins stayed with me for another hour or so whilst I was in the cage, kind of just shadowing and yeah, and as I said, I finally made it to Apollo day and walked up the beach and it was just the most incredible experience of my life, really one of because you know, I didn't.
Expect many people to be there.
I just thought, like the rent a crowd, family would be there and that's it. But there were like three thousand people.
On the beach because all the news.
And started to sort of you know broadcast you know, the radio station.
She's going to make it. She's like, you know, she's close.
So people were activated and they literally just drove down to the finish to see me. And yes, it was just amazing. But the best part was having seen my parents, you know, because we had you know, I cried so my mum, dad because you know, but your parents know what you've been through, like not just for that particular thing, but the years of effort and sacrifice that have gone into you know, finishing that particular event or getting to the end of your goals.
So it was a very very special moment.
Yeah, I love that so much. I was just, yeah, so immersed in that when what I know and what you know is when we do things like this in sport, what we learn and we get to take out out of the water, out of the ring, out of into real life. Right, So we have these experiences and I know that now you get to reflect back through hard things and one you're already conditioned to a degree, you know what it feels like. You know how to cope,
You've got all these tools. But what's different? What aren't you prepared for when it's a hard that you don't choose in comparison to a hard that you choose.
Oh, I got a perfect example of that.
You know.
Actually this coming week, I actually celebrate two years since I had my last cancer treatment, because I was diagnosed with breast cancer in twenty late twenty twenty three, and that was an endurance event of zone and not of my choosing, and it left me feeling very very vulnerable and in fact also betrayed because I guess, you know, my body has always done what I've told him to.
Do, and here it was, you know, with a.
Foreign thing inside, and all of a sudden I was thrown into the deep end of a very very different sort. So I felt very vulnerable.
Yeah, just I.
Honestly didn't know how to react for a little bit when I was first off. But then I guess, you know, the mindset keep back in and it's just like a marathon swim, you know, you just have to transpose the lessons over and say, well, you know, you can't always see the finish line.
But you've got to.
Trust in the process and trust in that you have the strength to keep going and reflect on Okay, well, you've done lots of hard things, so now it's time to do another hard thing. But it's just going to be different. And although there were so many moments of darkness and doubt, you know, you wonder, you know, how am I going to come out of this on the other end? Am I going to make it through to the other end? How am I going to survive? What
is it going to look like? You know, so much uncertainty, And although there were moments of darkness, there were also lots of moments of light and I think, you know, part of what we do is trying to find those rays of sunshine and have people around you that bring those rays of sunshine as well, so you know, through it, you know, although it was really difficult going through chema and going through surgery, you know, there were beautiful people always around me. Like you know, you have a laugh
with the nest and you know, joke about something. When I remember when I first started chema, I chose an option where you wear this cold cap and it literally is supposed to help retain your hair. That's what they say. It takes an extra hour you have.
To sit there. Excuse me, and.
The irony of it. It looks like a swimming cap, like you just puts really really cold water into into the cap and it literally cools your head right down. And they said to me, oh, look, they didn't know why I was a swimmer anything about what it done.
So there.
The oncology would sat me listen it. You know, it's pretty tough. Like a lot of people just can't can't sit there for that long because it gets so cold. Your head gets really cold, and you know, if you need the dolls and stuff like, you know, we'll understand if you can't get through. So I'm sitting there and I've got the cap im in there pumping it through and I'm like and they go, how are you? And I'm like, is this as cold as it gets? And they were like, you know, like it was quite funny.
So you know, so there moments where I just laughed and thought, see, you know, things that you do sometimes help you for something else.
The on shod and be like, hey, oh look I.
Tell you, but I think I tell you what I wasn't prepared for though. It was like after my second chemote session, I actually woke up one morning and I had just clamps of hair on my pillow and it just, you know, started to come out. And I know it seems really stupid, but I was just a mess. Like losing my hair was just like I don't know why, but it just made me feel, I don't know, so sad,
so upset. And maybe maybe it's because up to that point, like I could do normal things and no one would actually know really that I was sick, Like you know, there wasn't any outward signs, and now I was losing my hair, and so you know, there was something that about that made me more vulnerable for people to kind of see what I was going through. And I remember, like I was just like I said, I cried, and I remember my daughter said to me, hey, Mum, do
you want me to shave it for you? And I thought, oh god, she's a sweetheart, Like honestly, that's exactly what I needed. We've got the clippers out, we shaved my head, and it brought back that feeling of control because now you know, I.
Was in charge of what was happening. It wasn't just happening to me.
I had some sense of Okay, now I'm going to dictate what happens.
And I felt so much better about it.
And again my spirits picked up and it ended up all falling out. But you know, I was okay with that because I was already really short, and I discovered so many wonderful things, Like I was still trying to swim, so I was getting to the pool. I was only doing a couple of ka's, but I was able to swim without a cap for the first time and feel the water over my.
Head, and I was stream wise, and I got out at the end.
You know, I didn't have to spend ages in the shower, saving money on shampoo and conditioner, and mate, I used to spend so much time straightening my hair, and you know it, I was getting ready so fast.
It was just unbelievable. So there were lots of perks, and I think we've always got to look for those perks, you.
Know, I've got to look for those little tiny moments of goodness that you find, those little rainbows, and they're everywhere, but you just have to look for them. Even in the darker spots you can find them. But it's just having the mindset and the attitude to go. Do you know, I don't have to sit in this this space where I'm really like, it's okay to be there, and we all do it, so there's nothing wrong with it. But you know, it's about processing it and going like I've
been here long enough. Now I have to find a way to lift myself back out again. So cancer really taught me that in a different way. But I just got to use the lessons, I guess in a different environment. And as I said, yeah, I wouldn't have gotten through again. Just like my swims where I had the all the crew on the support boat cheering me on and feeding me and encouraging me and being there for me and keeping me safe.
I had that through my cancer journey to and again.
Just beautiful moments where people I hadn't seen for years turned up at my doorstep and they cook food, you know when I was going through chemo. You know, calls and friends that offered to take my daughter to school. Just the most beautiful things, you know, people offering to help and come around and mow the lawns and do
things for you, and it's actually to you. It is just the most beautiful feeling to know that you're surrounded by such wonderful people, that people people are genuinely really good. And I know we often get into that thought process. We hear about lots of bad stuff going on, and we kind of think humanity is going down the tubes. But people are inherently good and when they see somebody
else needing help, they do step in. And that's been my experience, and that's probably been one of the most beautiful parts of going through cancer and understanding how many people are around me that you know that will help and you know that I'm part of this big community.
Was it ever, what was the experience like of when you did lose your hair and you're stepping out into just into the world.
Going shopping, going down a wall.
So we have this, we have an identity, and we have a sense of self and we and we have I don't know this just way of being. But when people people project onto you, So they're going to look at this person no straight away that they're sick, there's going to be they're going to feel sympathy, and they're going to feel empathy, and they're going to be awkward and they're going to pretend to ignore it, or they're going to ask questions like what, how do you hold yourself in the middle of that.
Yeah, and again this was like a really massive learning journey for me because you know, going out, I wore I wore a hat. I didn't have like a lot of people get the wigs with the fake care so that you know, you can get these amazing things now that you can get a hat and has a little bit of hair hanging out the back and.
You know, so you wouldn't even know.
There was lots of options like that, and lots of people choose that, And I understand why, because you know, when you're sick and you're not feeling well and you're going through all of this, it is it is hard to also, you know, keep yourself mentally strong as well. But I just found I started wearing a hat and most of the time I really just thought, you know what, I don't care what other people pople think, like, I just sort of went and did my shopping, you know,
went out to the world. I think maybe something that had helped me is i'd done an improv course not before I was diagnosed, and one of the exercises is necessarily funny. We actually had to go to the supermarket and put a bunch of bananas on a head and walk around the supermarket with a bunch of bananas on a head, like do our shopping with and see what the reaction was from people. Because the whole premise was is that you think people are looking at you and noticing.
And really they don't care like you have.
You know, we all think, oh my god, everybody's going to judge me, and that the real reality is is that most people are so busy doing their own things that they don't even notice. And I walked around with a bunch of bananas on my head for about five minutes, like all around the supermarket down the earth, and I got new comments and one elderly lady said to me, I'm like your.
Hat, and that was We had a laugh, you know, and that was really about it. And I was so surprised that nobody really even noticed. So going, you know, going without my head.
To the supermarket, I just you know, if they noticed, great they come up and say something, well, you know, I was more than prepared to sort of talk. But mostly I found that people might have known obviously they knew I was going through something and they were nice, you know, they were just super nice.
They offered help.
Like you know, I had people offered to carry my bags to the car that you know would never normally happen.
So again you can be offended by that, but you.
Know, I choose to see the good and think, isn't it lovely that people want help? And again, I guess it just comes down to your attitude and how confident you are in your own skin about those things. And it is a learning process. Really, you have to come to adapt. And I think, you know, that's the most
brilliant thing about us is that we're so adaptable. Really, life is about adaptable, you know, adapting to different situations and just changing your perspective and understanding how other people perceive, but also thinking and understanding that sometimes you overthink things
as well. So it's it's incredible, really we've got this mindset that is a superpower computer and doesn't come with the manual, and we're constantly learning how to adjust and what our limitations are and what expectations are of us, and how we can find our own happiness and navigate challenges and keep going, you know, get that fulfillment and happiness. So yeah, it was an interesting interesting to go through the experience as well. Like you know, obviously I wouldn't
wish it on anyone. I think I'd rather be in the water facing sharks than waiting for a biopsy result.
Ever, again because again it's the uncertainty.
I think that's the that's the killer with that. It's just the uncertainty of not knowing. And it still goes on now because I have to go I'm clear, but you know, every sort of you know, six to twelve months, I go for different kinds of tests and you get checked and so you know, it really brings up what I call the scan anxiety, you know, waiting and seeing well, what if it's back, you know, what am I dealing with?
And the new.
Challenges of being on medication because I'm on tablets for the next seven years that really really have.
I find that difficult too. That make my joints ache.
I feel like I've aged about fifteen years, and physical things that I used to be able to do really easily now a lot harder.
And I have to again, you know.
Rethink what I can do and be adaptable and just go okay, well I can't do that, but I can do this and try and manage a bit better. So it's all, yeah, all that perspective.
Yeah, do things like this change you at the very core or do you tend to bounce back as the same a version of the same person. Person.
I don't think you can ever bounce back as the same I think you've lanned, You've gone through a really deep personal experience that's changed to the very core, and I think change for the good, to be honest, because I have so much more empathy as well, you know, see things in a different light. And it's that old story is like, if you've never been through an experience,
it's really hard for you to relate. And I think when you go through an experience, you can relate better to others, and so it just it makes you a better person, I think, and changes your views if you take it that way, obviously, but you know, I think it really does help you understand the struggles that people go through.
And yeah, even for me sitting in the Youngcology ward and getting your chemo treatment, I was looking around and you know, there were really young women in there with young kids, and it's a whole other situation, you know, if you're you've got a young family, and I thought.
To myself, I'm so lucky.
You know, my daughter's in their teenage years and I've finished obviously with family. But you know, that would be a whole other challenge. And I just thought, how how hard struggling in that position. So you can find things to be grateful for as well, And I think there's always somebody that's going through life and doing it a bit tougher than you. But you've just got to again, you know, be in that frame of mind to be grateful and think about the blessings that you do have.
And a lot of the times, don't we get caught in our own.
Situations, And you know it's easy to do.
I do it too, like you know, I'm guilty of it as well, but you know, I try and bring myself back and I think going through the whole cancer experiences help me do that, you know, and see things from different perspectives again and just have more empathy for people that are struggling or you know, there's a story going on you might.
Not know again, you know, you might see them with the hair the supermarket, but you don't know that they're going through chemo treatment.
So sometimes we see visuals of what people are going through and other times we don't. We have no idea, We have no idea what they're struggling through. So it's about being kind even though someone might not be kind to you on a certain day. But again, you don't know what's led to that point. So I always try and keep that in my mind.
Yeah, it's an easy balance, or how do you how do you balance that idea of how to how to do all the positive stuff, how to be how to be present, be grateful, know that were that everyone goes through hardship, but also honor the pain and the self, you know, the self stuff, self compassion, allow yourself to feel it.
It's it's you. Look, you know. I wish I could say he's the manual, here's how you do it. And like I said, enough, I want a refund.
And you know what I'm I learn all the time, and I think life is just a learning journey and every day we learn and sometimes we don't get it right, but then we try.
And I think it's all about the trying, you know.
That's really the important part is having that mentality where you go, oh yeah, well I didn't really behave well yesterday, or I've been in a rut for a while, but I need to pick myself up and get going again and learn. You know, this is what I love about this day and ages. With technology now, we can learn
so much. We can hear from so many people, we can be inspired by so many others, And I think it's all about keeping your finger on the big wide world and learning, you know, because I think through listening to others' journeys and being open to reading. I love reading, you know, just any kind of knowledge, I think keeps that mind again, it keeps you adaptable because it's giving
you different perspectives and different opinions. It's a balance of trying to just keep that learning journey going and the awareness of knowing, Okay, I'm sitting in this space and it's not good and it's not good for me. So that's really for me. When I get in the negative space, you know, might not sleep because I'm ruminating on something.
Next morning.
I can't do this because it's detrimental to me. I need to be in a better space for me. I need to be a better mum, you know. I can't be fully present for my daughter. If I'm tired, and you know, then I get cranky. So it's like understanding how to balance your mind and your body as well. And yeah, it's tricky though, it's not easy. Like I said, it's just one of those things that I just intentionally
try and learn. And I know that if I'm in a bad space, I just try and think, Okay, tomorrow, Tomorrow we're going to do something different, going to go for a walk in the morning, going to pay attention to everything going on, all the beds in the trees. And one thing that really picks me up is my dog. He's like, you know, I love the unconditional love of pets.
I think you know when you go whether you go away for five minutes or you're away for an hour and you come back home and they're just waiting for you and they're just full of love and they just it's something that's so grounding and that really helps me a lot. And actually my dog Jasper really helped me through a lot of the cancer treatment too, because he just sit with me and sit.
On my lapping. It was like he knew something was wrong. And even sleep on the bed beside me is just a lot more calm during that period. So yeah, little things like that.
I know, dogs know everything.
They do, dogs do.
I say, my dog's my guru.
Dogs are the guru.
There are a little there are a little four.
Legged fairy gurus, aren't they aren't they They just got that sense about them. They just you know, I don't know what it is. I felt like the dolphins had that too when I was I was fascinated. It's like, you know, it's funny you think they know, they know. If we believe that, then it does the right thing for us, right, So yeah, honestly, again, it's your perspective and taking a positive.
Look on things and going.
Yep, they got me, and then you know you're able to lift yourself and get out of bed. And that's all you need is that first lega Really, it's the hard things. The hardest part about the hard things is finding the momentum to get going, just building that first step. So, you know, one stroke at a time has always been my motto and always think back to, you know, the hard times is that, you know, taking that one stroke and getting to the next moment and then get into the next moment.
So yeah, good listening forever, forever, just switch off my mic, keep my earphones in and just listen to you. Keep talking.
We'll wrap it up there.
But I am going to be tugging at your sleeve because there's so much more in your world that I'd love to talk about, and I just want to keep listening to you, so I'll be I'll be hassling you and my listener.
You don't have to hassle. I'll be on anytime you know that.
You would you like to direct the listeners to where they can find you, follow you and get in touch.
Yeah, sure if they want you.
I'm on Instagram and it's just my just my name, Tammy Van, with the same with the If you want to check out my website or you know, book me for a speaking engagement. Again, it's just Tammy Van WISA dot com. So I've got a pretty unusual surname. You'll find me just typing crazy, marathon swimmer and Tammy.
There's only one.
That's that's it.
I'll have your I'll have the website in the show notes. So thank you so much. I'm glad our pards Christ and I'm glad that it wasn't in the water, because I would be sinking at the bottom.
But in the boxing ring for me, that could have been really that could have ended badly too.
On try Land and out of the boxing ring we can be besties. Thank you so much, Tammy, and thanks everyone.
She said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood.