The Top 1%- Dioni Amuchastegui

I'd killed... I'd killed a handful l. Okay. I used to shoot I used to shoot both a lot. Okay. I'd I do shoot everything Okay. Perfect. Cool. Yep. Well, new I knew my way around a bow, but I also knew I'm probably the least sneaky personal lie. So so... Stocking deere not a strong suit for me. I'd I'd bow hunted deer in the past and then I came to the conclusion that like, hey, If you wanna You wanna a hunt big deer, go hunt with a bow. You wanna kill big deer, Go on with a rifle. That's awesome.

The rock cast is powered by On x Hunt and for good reason. On hunt is the number 1 hunting Gps app in the industry. Stay tuned for a rock broadcast promo code. Welcome back to their rock broadcast everyone. It's Travis. I've been kinda missing an action a little bit. Today's guest, I am super excited, D. I think everybody knows this guy. He probably needs no introduction.

Dion is the real deal, a real hunter that just is getting it done on some of the, like, I think some of the hardest tags that you can hunt and getting it done with just super exceptional dear. So Dion, Welcome to the podcast, and I can't wait to pick your brain today. Thanks, man. You're kinda hype me up cute. No. Do dude... Well, I really, like, I just love talking you man. You're 1 of those guys that just has such a good

attitude. And I just... Like, I know talking to you the work you do and just the attitude do you have it really to, like, you just know. I'd know, like, Dion is gonna be successful. Like, I I just... I almost come to expect it. Like, it's just awesome, man. So... Yeah. So it's just cool. It's cool. Accomplish. Yeah. The opposite, though, I've I've been expecting a bad year for the last few years. It's been really tough, but feels like, feel like the stars have aligned for me.

No. Dude you... You're just... You're doing things right, man and that's why I wanna have you on, and I think our listeners can pull stuff. And I mean, this is what's interesting to me, man. And the guys I wanna talk to. I... Like, not to take anything away from, like, a guy that's killing good bucks every year on the maybe an outfit or whatever on the Arizona strip or some really sought after hard to get where they're hunting it with... Dude the guys like,

I just... I don't care about that. So if the guys I really wanna talk to and that I really just, like love to hear their stories and learn from them or just guys owning run of the mill over the counter type tags or just tags that the general public's getting competing with all these people, which... I mean, I know some of the places you want. That's like that. And that you're just getting it done on these, like, top 1 percent of deer. And that's what's so cool to me. And I think it's

so cool that... That can still happen in today's day and age. You know what I mean? And like, what separates somebody that's doing that from, the guy that's, you know, just been battling and not getting it done. Like, I... That's what I'm always interested in, like, what people are doing different. So Yeah, it's... I don't know. It's fun, man. What do you think about that? What do you think that is? Why is their guys like you? Like, how do you get that done? What do you think?

I think there's, like, 2 main, 2 or 3 main factors that go into it. 1 is just the sheer volume of time that you're to put into it. And there's no there's there's no getting around that. The guys that are, like, really consistently successful on next level bucks universally spend a lot of time doing it. Yep. And then outside of that, I think the 2 next most important things are honestly, good problem solving ability being able to kinda

of figure things out. Mh. And and I don't know if that second place or or third place, but the the next other 1 would be just relentless optimism even when you have no reason to be. So hard to say... It's so hard to stay engaged and and keep trying when things are tough if you can't just lie to yourself and say that. That at any minute. At any minute, you're gonna see the biggest

fuck ever there's. I mean, there's a lot of harder days where it's like, man It's just this it'd be a lot more fun if I like to golf for play basketball. You can... Anything else because there's there's there's way way way way more days, even for the best guys, there's way more days that you don't find the big buck than

there are that you do. For sure. And I dude, I could not agree more on attitude, Man And, like, as I look just, you know, thinking about different guys that I know are, like, super successful guys like you, they're just are getting it done and, like, coming up, like, due to the... That's 1 thing they always have in common when I get the chance to talk. To them. Like, they really are, like, they're optimistic. They're looking forward to. Dude even if hunting seasons been

kinda... I don't know. It's been rough, whatever and I'm talking to a mid season. They still got like that. I don't know what it is. It's just... It's something burning inside of them that I'm like, I know they the... They're gonna get it done, And I think you kinda have to have that. You know? I... They're just... There has

to be something about that attitude. Like, I think, I mean, it's like those days when you feel defeated, doesn't it kinda feel like if you let that slip in that you almost are kinda defeated, Yeah. I I can't. Like, I... If honestly, on some of those days and everybody says they tough it out and grind it out. Like, If it's get... I like 3, yep. Head in it and stay engaged. And if it if if at the end of 3 or 4 days, it suck. Like, I Was

like, okay. I'm going home soon and and next week a new a new thing because, like, I don't know... You know, it can be it can be x. Extra tough if you're just getting kicked in the teeth for a week or. 10 days or 14 days. But a lot of what I do is built around, like, okay. This is this is my this is my window of... I know I can stay engaged and work hard and even if it's horrible, I can I can tolerate it and it doesn't get me broke down? For these, you know, that that window of

of duration, like it. And and I think I've just I've built a lot around, you know, Okay. Dude do I worry more about having a light backpack or creature comforts? Because, like, what's gonna keep me? What's gonna keep me engaged and keep me? You know, doing everything I needed to do to possibly be successful. And I I think that's a big big part

of it. It's just figuring out how you can stay positive and how you can stay engaged and and keep trying because if you're not, I mean, it just doesn't happen otherwise. Yeah. And I agree, man. Like, and I'm I'm glad to... Like you mentioned the the 4 day thing, like, 3, 4 days. Because I truly believe, like, when I I noticed, you know, I go to Colorado and you go down there, you know, for the entire season usually, Is usually kinda out And I noticed even, you know, you get that 6, 7 days in.

And I mean, it really there is something. Like, if you've been having a rough go, And I'm not saying I give up, but I just don't think I was the same guy I was on day 1234. You know what? There's just something I And I don't know if it's, like, the optimism, you know, you had that, like, maybe it was a few days. Off or even just sometimes go into a new place is like, just a I don't know. There's just something there.

You just... I don't know. There's just something different that I think that internally changes with my attitude I don't know what it is. If there is something, but I do agree that 4 day. I... I'm a big fan of that. Yeah. Yeah. I I mean, it's just if if you're not actively engaged, and I can't tell you how many times I've gone

hunting with other people. And like, guys that are in it, they love to do it and, like, you just see this fatigue start to come over and it may not it may not have even been a physical hot, and it's just, like you see them be less effective instead of just, you know, doing all the things they know they need to do to be effective.

Like, you just see this this slow compromise of Well, maybe I'll I'll sleep in this morning or maybe I'll do, you know, not not get there before the sun's up or not get to the absolute best vantage or not take advantage of every opportunity available me. Like, you just see this slow degradation of their ability to be effective. And it's, like, it it does does it matter on on every time. You might be able to get away with.

Yeah. Over enough hunts in enough days. Like, that's probably 1 of the things that that makes the difference. For sure. Well, and, you know, when you talked about... I think Robbie mentioned this in the past too. You know, you start getting tired in your war out, You know? And yeah, maybe you're not out of bed. Like, in, you know, or in your glass spot and didn't let nuts not not even talk about being out of bed at in time, but like, being

in your glass spot. Like, you know, for that first, that prime time, right, as it's getting light and You do see a lot of guys. You know, I think they just kinda after a while. There's, like, dragging a little bit and at all just... I think it starts compounding on each other, but, yeah, Yeah. Well, that's part of a why I love scouting so much because it's it's really tough on those hunts where you don't have something found. But I noticed for myself, like, man, every single trip I can make on

a scouting trip. I'm excited to go and they're... You know, and you never go scouting for a week or Yeah. 10 days. So it's It's always just these these build yourself up, like, have have fun. You know, it's gonna be an enjoyable experience. So weather's usually nice. Get to go out find stuff, and then and then once you do have something found, Like, once I've got a deer in mind, once I've got a target, like, it's way easy to hunt for 7 days. But so true. That that is

so true. That was good advice right there. Like, it's so true, man. If you have something, It's a it's a whole different ballgame when you were, like, you know something's there and it helps immensely. Like, got pre season scouting. I couldn't agree more. Yeah. But so so, dude, Well, we gotta get into the story of last year's dear, like I so excited. Dion found a love for archer hunting. I wanna get into all that too. I don't know if I love Archer tree I think

he found out how easy it is. We'll say that. But no. I'm just super excited. So just like, our listeners, I know most of them probably followed. You were on the cover Western Hunter. So cool, dude. Like, can you kinda just start off the top and tell me that story. And I even told you the last time I talked him like, dude I hold on on the details I wanna do this on a podcast because I wanna be So I I have tried to, like, I I know some of it, but I

I've tried to unplug a little bit. So I'm I'm excited Well, if I remember, I'd had sent you some pictures of poor. You did. I was you I was so excited for you and when you got killed, bike, and I got that picture. I was just like our cloud 9 for you, because I... It was just so cool, man. Like, yeah. Man. And just, like, the whole thing's a whirlwind, like, it's As you and and everybody listens this podcast knows. It's been tough. The last 3, 4

years find goodyear. Especially in Central Idaho. I mean, everywhere, but but especially in Central Idaho. And I've, you know... You earn in every book up there, dude. I... That's what I'm telling you. Like, I Like give I mean, it's not hard to get a tag up there. Like, I mean, you that's, like, you can get tags up there. You you are earning these dear. I guarantee you.

Yeah. So it's just... It's been tough. And, like, by some miracle, you it's it's funny because like, I'll go all summer scouting in the best buck I've seen, you know, 2 2 years ago, 3 years ago now. The... I scout, I think I made 8 or 9 trips And the best luck I'd seen all summer long was about a hundred and 40 inch year. Mh. And Yeah. And just like, man, that's... You know, I'm, I guess I'm not

shooting anything this year. Yeah. And that was kind of the approach I had, and then you know, went and and killed a decent buck in Wyoming, and then Like, man, I've got... I think I got a day. Like, I can I can go out? I've got a spot I've been looking at for a while. You know, peripheral area to spot where I've I've seen hundred a a lot of good deer. And and and just, like, I think it was, like, September twentieth or something. I'm in their glass. And didn't see anything where I was

in and Was kinda like, okay. I need to get head and home. I told the wife I'd be home at a certain time, and it's like, okay. I've I bet I've got 10 minutes. Let's let's just quick scan the area and try and find somewhere else I might be able to look. And and I started looking around just looking with my spotter at distant ridges. And you know, Was I wasn't even thinking about trying to spot deer at this point.

It's just like, okay. Let's take advantage of the opportunity to figure out the next spot I wanna go look at. Mh. And and I'm looking at this hill that's close to 2 miles away and like, man. I think that the deer. It's it's 10:00. So, like, stuff's kinda Yeah. It's pretty warm September day stuff. Pretty much bad up by then usually and like, man, that's that's a deer and I zoom in on it. Oh, that's a buck, And then I'm looking around. There's another box,

There's another box. And then there's another 1 Say, oh man. That's a really good book. You know, 2 miles away. A little hard to judge. Just a little hazy. And and I start looking everything over. But, no, man. That's right right above where my thoughts part. Serious. Yeah. So so Like okay, I'm gonna go that direction anyways. So I... I start making my way back and I get, I I cut a little little better than half the distance, and I I was able to turn that turn that gear back up again, it's holy

cow. So at this point, you're about a mile, something like that. Yeah. Well, I'm I'm a mile from the hill and and to the trucks, like, literally right under it. So it's like, the whole thing just silly. It's a place that had absolutely never looked otherwise. And and I'm looking at this box. It's Holy cow. He's got he's got a big frame, you know, 21 inch g two's is what it ended up being. So it's just, like, big frame, week 4, didn't score huge. But, like, just, you know, total total locked

into that year. And same thing the year before Was just like, holy cow. I just got absolutely lucky, didn't turn anything up and then got got super lucky right at the last minute finding something. Well, that's awesome, man. He's just grinding it out and getting it done. Yeah gets really cool. But I'd had a few years in a row like that. It's was like, man. I really need to just... I need to I need to shuffle the deck and I need

to go somewhere new. So you know, for last year, it's like, totally new unit, totally new area, and I Like I look things over. And I I'm... I'm not a big e scouting fan. I mean, you you can learn a lot from it, but it it doesn't necessarily mean there's gonna be deer there. Even if the spot is the best looking spot you've ever seen. You know, there's just places that don't seem to have deer anymore even even if they're perfect half. Agree, man. Me to I'm right

there with you. I... Yep. That's exactly how I feel about it too. So I had a Had a handful of places picked out, and, gosh. I think it was... It... Might have been first week or so a July before the snow melt it off enough to get in there. U. And and I get in there, you know, just looking around not necessarily looking for specific animals but looking just generalized looking at at country and seeing if there's sign. And

the spot I thought looks looks phenomenal. Definitely had everything it needed to have in a lot of gear signs. So it's pretty pretty optimistic. And then, it's actually Scout, a got a really good buddy of mine was was playing on Hunting with me this year, and I found this spot and had a advantage picked out, and he's actually the first 1 to put eyes on that book. But you know, we we send him in there, and he he bill sits where he's telling him sit and turned up that buck and

it's like, holy cow. We we really got something here he and how we're talking a bunch. It's like, man, this is This is... You know, I I didn't get eyes on it myself, but, looking at what he had. He didn't have the greatest pictures of it Like, that's definitely significant deer. So made it back in there. I made it back in there I think, like, 4 days later. I took a day off of work. Like I gotta go look at that tears. So I get I get back in there and and sure enough, I get him get him

in the big 95. He's a mile away, and it's like, holy cow. Skyline. It's just like, I got it... I filmed it when I when I very first found him I filmed that and he's and just incredible. Like, holy cow this is a huge deer. And you know, I've had I've had really good luck for the last bunch of years of fine gear and then keeping on them till October. And I was like, okay. Well, you know, I I don't wanna I haven't I've never killed a deer with a bow before. So like I wasn't even a thought in my

mind. And dion... Let me interrupted you. You... What what what time of year... So what when was this? This was early July. Right? I think it was a week after I made my first trip in there. So it, like July twentieth. Okay. So you're about mid July this time you're film. Yep. Okay. Alright. I just Yeah. And then I think when I... When I went in there with, like, maybe 4 days later so 20 fourth 20 fifth something like that. Cool. And Yeah. So, you know, just phenomenal buck, and

it's, like, okay. Well, not not even a thought in my mind to Bo on him at this time. Like, I'm gonna I'm gonna just I'm gonna watch this here so much that there's, you know, no doubt. I know what he does where he lives, how he operates, and then come October when he tightens everything up and gets harder to find. It's like, it won't even matter. Because I'll just have, you know, I'll spend 10 or 15 days watching the deer. Was kinda my thought. And at this point, was he pretty ba

up? Like, in middle of July, like, did did... Was it kinda hard to tell, like, kinda how he was gonna finish up where his points kinda ball up he looked pretty close to finished Okay. Like, he I... He was ball up, but it didn't look like they were... Get it go. Yeah know. He looked like he was 95 percent away there. Cool. And, yeah. So it's like, he he he looked

like he drove a little bit. I honestly figured... I thought he was a lot smaller when I first found him, I just didn't it didn't register in my brain how much mass he had. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah. I thought he was low 1 nineties at first. But, yeah, Watched him watched him quite a bit sent some pictures to just a small handful of people. You, Yep. Robbie, my buddy gets c. Yeah. And then I don't know if you know Henry Ferguson I. Yeah. Yeah first too. Yep. So.

Yeah. That was pretty much it. That was like, that was the people that knew about this year other than, you know, a couple a couple other the really close buddies. And And, yeah. So, like, I had I had James and Henry just badger me about, oh, man. You need a bow on him. You need a bow on him. And it like, not even a consideration. For me, to try to think about Bo on it. So deal and Yeah, You gotta talk about... Have you up to this point bla, you've never bow on it. Is that...

Or you have? Did... Had you bow hunted not really? Is if fire right? I'd killed... I'd killed a handful l. Okay. I used to shoot I used to shoot both a lot. Okay. I'd I'd do shoot everything Okay. Perfect. Cool. Yep. Well, new I knew my way around a bow, but I also knew I'm probably the least sneaky personal lie. So so stocking deere not a strong suit for me.

I'd I'd bow hunted deer in the past, and then I came to the conclusion that like, hey, If you wanna You wanna hunt big deer, go hunt with a bow, she wanna kill big deer, Go home with a rifle. Anyway. That's awesome. So yeah. It was getting to be, like, mid August, felt really good about, like, understanding the buck, knowing 1 know how how he works. And and dan I'm sorry, I'm gonna keep interrupting any other questions. But did you feel like

he was pretty secured? Like, do you feel like there was gonna be... Pressure in there. Like, how did you feel about, like, security wise and him sit until October? Maybe you're gonna get to that, but Man, I felt like this buck had... I mean, it it was a pretty visible spot honestly it Okay. But Man, I... Every big book I've ever hunted is so faithful to their area. Mh. It it... Like, people talk about bucks disappearing.

And, man, I think, at at least in Mountainous terrain, where where deer don't migrate out till late October. I just don't believe it. I I don't... I've never seen it. I don't believe it. I think I think the place where a buck lives, is part of its tech. Like, it's part of its spot. Yes. Playbook for survival, and especially if they get older, Like, if you've got AA5678 year old buck, it's been its whole life surviving in that spot. Yep. So, like, to... If if something bad happens

or they get pressure something weird happens. Like, it's number 1234 and 5. Plan for survival incorporates that area. Yes. Like, that's how it stayed alive at life. Yes. At least all the bucks I've hunted And I don't think that they're quick to leave that. Mh. I agree. So my thought was, like, okay I just really know everything this buck does, when it gets later in the year and he sheds Velvet, and he tightens up his program. If Like, I'm gonna know what this deal likes to do anyways. Yep. So

that was my thought. I then to get older of Robbie and start talking with him and and I honestly feel like Robbie is probably 1 of the best ear hunters alive, and he'll he'll do anything with anything if if it's his best... Chance at killing a big buck. So, like, when when Ravi says something to me it carries a lot more weight than almost anybody.

Mh. And he all... I mean, I might be mis remembering how it came across, but it felt like he all, but called me an idiot for not even thinking about bo hunting this year. Yeah. So... Yeah. I like believe then I find myself. I think it was August. Sixteenth. I think I talked to him on the fourteenth or fifteenth. And then August sixteenth, I found myself a bow. And it's like, okay. I gotta... You know, I even made bracelets years ago that say, it was a joke. Yeah. What would all

be didn't do. What would Robbie do. Yeah. So it's like Robbie has spoken. So that's all. You know. Do what Robbie would do and it's like, okay. Well, I've better I better get this figured out. So I get a bow, August sixteenth, and then it's, like, just mad rush shooting 2 or 3 times a day. Every day. Yeah. Leaves opens in 14 days. Yeah. I leaned on James Yet. It's pretty hard. Just like, tell me what to buy.

U. So You know, he got he got me set up, and and, man, it was it was a whirlwind, like, just just getting everything ready, and then, and season showed up, and even even that was nuts. Like, the day I left, it was, you know, get home, I work worked 04:10. So it's like I get home, Mow lawns, spray weed. Yeah. You know, make make dinner for the family. Do all those dads duties. Yeah. All the dad duties this is day before season. And

and it's like, okay. I got I gotta a mountain the things I gotta do, and before I can even leave, and you know, take off... I took off at, like, 09:00 at night, and you know, get up there expecting to get in, sometime a little bit after midnight first went through that day. Oh, yeah. Hold burn. I ended up cutting out. I wanna say it was like 70 trees. I had to cut out of the road to get in. Damn. Oh, it was it was 03:00 in

the morning. I think it was 02:30 maybe 03:00 in the morning before I got into camp. Now. And but I was totally committed, like, yeah. Free and it probably Yeah. I probably should've have mentioned it earlier, but I I learned my lesson in the past about about being all in on a deer, I had a I had a handful of pretty good out of state tags. And and once I had this buck found, it's like, man, I'm not doing anything this

year but killed that deer. So I actually turned in... I returned some pretty good draw tags before season even started because it's, like, I don't even wanna have the temptation to think about doing any else because every every second of vacation, every window my wife will get me to leave, like, every everything I have is going towards this year. Dude that's some good advice right there at all the listeners. Like, I mean, that's a hard thing to do.

I I I've struggled with it getting too many tags and dude you didn't focus and dude that was smart, man. That was so smart. Yeah. So, yeah. Like, opening night, I'm just... I'm a mess. I'm super tired. Been a long week, and then, set the alarm for 05:00 in the morning so I can can get over to my vantage. And I've seen this dear pretty much every time I've gone to look for him. He was he was honest and pretty easy to find. And yeah. Opening morning. I didn't see him though.

I, I didn't I didn't see him I didn't see him most of the day, and I ended up making a big move and changing advantages and running into another hunter, and it's actually a guy I knew. There's a whole. Yeah. Funny story, but I actually had a face mask on when he walked up to me. And I kinda tried to change my voice. Because I knew it's I don't really have.

Don't really have anything else. So it's, like, here I am sitting with with Ml peers because on a tripod gloss at a basin, and I'm I'm telling him a mel hunting. So And if he knows you he knows better than that. Yeah. It was a whole it was a whole thing. He he's a super good, guy. We didn't know each other's super well, but I knew I knew who he was, and he definitely wouldn't known who I was if I didn't have a face mask on, but...

I Yeah. I actually ended up not finding that book till right at last light that night, opening day, and it didn't seem like like a great off... Opportunity. And at this point, I wasn't sure he knew about that deer, and it's like I still wanted to play everything conservative. Like, in the back of my mind, it was still, like. I'll I'll I'll play around with this though thing, but I'm I'm I'm probably gonna kill him with a rifle. Okay. I'm with you. And would had he move far? Like, from,

Mean... So you just kinda changed your vantage point? He just was just in a spot maybe. Yep. Backside of the same hill. Okay. And yeah. So, like, everything's good. I'm watching the buck. It's it's getting close to the dark, And I'm getting ready to pack stuff up. I've been just video in the buck through the spotter. And I bumped my spotting scope with my phone on it still. And and I can see this guy skyline above the bush. Oh, it's like, oh, this is is bad news.

And like, he's got his bow out and he's seeking in on it. It's like, wow, I guess that takes all the oh away. I didn't know this question out of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I... Well, he definitely knows about the buck, and he's definitely about to shoot it. So you know, And I just... It's like, well, I'm all I can do is say here. I sat there and and I got everything set back up, and I just filmed him. I filmed him stocking in on it, and

then I filmed him. So The first time he shot at it, and I filmed him the second time he shot at it, and it was getting, like, it was getting dark. Like, right at the end of what I could... I mean, it's totally legal shooting hours still that it was getting... Was the fuck out of the or was he in his bed still? What was he doing? He was bed. Okay. You that Okay. And he stopped in on him. And like I said he shot at him twice. It it looked like the deer was...

Okay, but it's, like, the the second shots. I, got. He he might have hit it. Arrows don't hit him like, bullets Yeah. So it's like, Man, I don't know. And then I filmed him, I... You know, when the buck got up and ran, I had him for, like, 80 yards running, which is, like, if it had been if it had been another 40 yards farther I'd have been more confident, But, like, they could run 80 yards really strong with a good shot.

So I was just wreck. Like, absolutely just a complete in total basket case rack, that whole night thinking, like, I don't know if you shot him. I didn't... Like, a big part of me wanted to hike up there to where he was and looks replied. Yeah. But big man. I got I gotta be respectful because, like, as much as I want this year. I know I know this guy. He's scouts all summer. He's he's super good, dude. He's a great honor. Yeah.

Like, I know this guy... I know this guy wants it just in fat as me and I'm not gonna do anything you screw them up. Yeah. Especially if that buck wounded, especially if that buck wounded just outside of where I could see him. It's you know, running. It's like, I'm not I'm not gonna actively do anything to screw up somebody else's hot. Yeah. For sure. So, It's like, I just... I I went back to camp and didn't sleep at all.

And then got up at 5 05:00 the next morning and and went back into my into my glass spot. And, man, I was so nervous. In that next morning, he took me don't know. Maybe a half hour, 45 minutes after sun up to find the buck and it's sure enough, like I was able to find him. I Right? Where I've been watching him all summer. So I still shot twice and didn't didn't leave. Yeah. That was a good feeling I bet.

It was it was a tremendous feeling until it registered that, oh, man, this book just skyline himself. Anybody who's looking for this year probably just saw them. Got gotcha. So now I've got this in the back of my mind. It's like, oh, You know, Like, and and after the last night, watching him shoot at it, like, oh, no, now I have to try. Because my thought was, like, if nobody else is hunting this year, Like, do a slam setup, I'll try it. But

at no point in in any... Like, lead up to this was I like, oh, man. I'm gonna go hard on it with the bow. It's like, I'll I'll try with the bow. I'll be there. Yep. And put a real effort into it, but I'm not gonna push anything. Well, as soon as I saw him shoot at the buck, it's like, well, man, now I really, really got a try. Mh. And, So was like, I see the buck skyline himself. He's in a basin and I've watched him in 3 or 4 times. And It's like, I got I gotta I gotta

get up there. Like, I gotta get in position. I'm he used 2 or 3 different beds. That were all within, like, 50 yards of each other. So it's like, man, I've bet money that he's gonna bed in 1 of those beds again Yep. So I'm gonna get up there and get in a semi conservative position, and then when the wind gets right, I'll just start stocking in, like he's in 1 of those beds. And so do you at this point, you move, he's up feeding kind of heading towards at those beds. Right? Yep. Okay. Yep. So

that was that was the game plan. Like, get in get in position, get the wind right, and then... Just pretend. I no worries at. Gotcha. And when I did, and everything felt really good, like I'm like, man he's if he's there. Like, I was really sneaky getting in. Everything felt pretty good. And then I get right to the edge of where I think I'm gonna be able to see where this buck is. If like, maybe a hundred yards out of of where I think he should be. And and then,

I hear him blow out. He's 50 yards away blown behind me. And then I really got, like, oh, man. This is... This is not good. Like, this is this is a problem. And the bucks running off, and I've just got every every bad negative emotion and thought going through my mind. Like, I... Yeah. I just ruined it. Like, you know, I'm I'm as confident as anybody, the big deer don't leave through this fuck got shot at yesterday. Mh. And then he winded me, saw me, and I blew him out from 50 yards today,

Like... But man, that's gonna be a law for him to tolerate for sure. And and it's just like, well, man. I I got I got, like, I got no other play. Like, I'm gonna I'm gonna stay up here and stay in position and hope that this buck turns back up in a in a location, I can see him from up here. And then if it does happen, I can... I'll I'll be in a good spot to take advantage of it. Because in in the back of my mind, all I can think about it is was like, I gotta I gotta head home tonight.

So I can be home to watch my kid the next day. I gotta take my daughter's at school and then I gotta watch my son, the next day. So it's like, I'm not even gonna be able to be here on the third third day of season. So it's like, I've got to try to figure something out today. Mh. And I stayed up till way after dark because it's like, I I didn't see him, and then my thought was, okay. Well, this year already been pressured a lot.

I've bumped into big deer in the middle of the night before just with a head lamp. Mh. And they call it really well. So it's like, if I if I have to bump this year again, leaving here, it's gonna be an hour or 2 after dark. Yep. Is what my thought was, because that's the least damaging way I can I can screw something up again? So and I didn't realize that was actually... That that did me a huge huge favor.

So I go home, watch my kid. My kids the next day, and then, my buddy ward was actually able to to get out and come and, like, spot for me help me. The following day. So it's like, okay. Well, just hope and pray and fingers and toes and everything crossed and, like, just... Yeah. Just hope, just hope that this year is still alive. When I get back in there. And and that that next morning the fourth day of season you, I got I got my buddy word there, and I'm... You know, I'm set up

on the main advantage. She's got a different vantage. And it's like, okay. Just just just help so that next morning sure enough, 45 minutes, maybe hour after sun up, I find the buck, 2 or 300 yards away from where I'd bumped him. He's right. Yeah right there. And he's in he's in the furthest point that I've seen him in all summer, basically, in in his core area, he's he's kinda at the edge of it, which is, like, the... What I... What I determined to be, like,

the most secure spot Okay. He's got this shale slide that he would like to bed in, and he's he's on the side of that, basically. Gotcha the giant shale slide face of a mountain. And there's... He's got a bed right in the middle it. They're, like, a handful of dead trees, and he would bed under those dead trees, but it's, you know, it's complete shale slides. So any... Any direction around it him. There's He's hair and some. There's nothing Yep. There's nothing sneaking up on him.

So so I... I sent a message from my buddy ward. He comes over and gets meets up with me. We talk over a plan. And it's like, well, this block still up and feeding. I'm gonna get up above him, I'm gonna get, you know, 5, 600 yards out. I should be able to see him from from my approach, and then let's just figure out where it beds. And sure enough that buck went and embedded straight in the middle of that shell slide. Where he thought he would. Right where I thought he would. And it

was actually a little bit higher. He had a handful of beds in that shale light, but it was a little bit higher, looking it over, you know, measuring everything on On x and like, man, I think if I can climb up that rock spire that's above him, I think I'd be 60 yards away from them. Mh. And Like, okay. Well, that's, you know, that's that's... The play. I, you know, I I can't I can't be a passenger in the same anymore. Gotta I gotta get after it, and I gotta

at this point, have you... As either of you guys the like, any sign of the other guy? Yeah. We we kept seeing him. Okay. So you're he's still in the area. K. Yeah. So I I get... You know, it's really easy. I just get on the backside of the mountain and I can I can cruise No problem with just? Sneaking in there the approach, and it's it's like solid rock, getting over to that raw spire, and then it starts to get loose when I got when I got to the edge of it, but

Like, my thinking was okay. This all summer along this buck would pretty consistently bed for close to 2 hours. Like, watch them from first bed to second bed, like, pretty consistently. He'd stand in 1 spot for 2 hours. So it's like, okay. I don't wanna be above them for any longer than they have to be. Yep. So I waited an hour, and, like, I'll wait an hour, then I'll stock in. I bet that takes 15 minutes. Ish, and then it should be, you know, because I've seen in bed for a hour and

a half. It's like, I don't wanna be any later than that because then I... Then I'd missed the window. So Yeah. And you were... And what you were thinking is you were wanting to get there as that bucks getting up to change beds you're in position, and you didn't wanna be there earlier just to maybe risk wind or something else yeah sitting on top of him. I like it. Yep. I didn't didn't wanna wait for the wind to swirl. Yep. I didn't wanna have the wind swirl and have me be in danger clothes.

Yep. So like it. Let's doesn't minimize exposure to failure. Yeah. Just... Stack the deck. Will, I get up there, and I've been there for, about an hour, and it's like, man this book's not moving at all. Like, you can normally tell, like, they'll wiggle around. They'll start to... You know, they they that you can tell when they're uncomfortable and they're about to get up. And

and this block was pretty consistent. Like, I've got hours of video of him over the summer, and it's like, he was pretty reliable about he's gonna give me an indication when he's about to get up. So I'm sitting there thinking like, okay. Well, what else can I do? Like, is there is there anything I could physically possibly do to give myself a better chance. Mind you, like, I got up there, and it actually ended up being 20 yards farther than what. I thought it was gonna be... 38 0 82.

82 yards. So downhill are you, like, pretty stood, like, you gotta, like, get, like straight violent downhill? So the the shoot 2 distance ended up being 68. Oh, well, that's a lot. Dude yeah. Okay. Yep. So, which... It's convenient because I'd only sided my bow and, like, I'd I'd I had a black gold a scent slider, and I had, my tape was money out to 70. Like I shot. The day the day before season started, I've got a cousin who helps me a

ton with with archer. He's he's actually been a competitive archer since the early nineties. Now, my cousin, Dave Go to India, And like, I was at his house the day before because he's he's, like, he's Yoda for me when it comes to 3. And I shot, I I put 3 arrows in, like, a 2 inch group at 70. And the day the day before season, it's like, man. I feel I feel really good about this. Yeah. I feel really really good. And I'm pretty good at staying composed when

it comes to shooting animals. I can I can kinda remove myself from it and and perform close to as good as I can on target? Nice. Oh, you know, I'm I'm I'm at 82 yards, but my shoot two's high 6 seasons Like I I think I can I think I can make this? But let's just make everything as good as I can. So, you know, I'm sitting there above him. And like, okay. Well he's he's giving me the time, so I actually crawled back out of the spot, and I went and picked

up rocks. I mean, I'm standing on a jagged rock spire. And it's just like, not a great footing. And and everything was uneven. So Actually, I climbed out, and I grabbed rocks. Like strategically that I could place down to have a flat solid platform to stand on? Really? That's cool. That was smart. Yeah. It's You. So I I made... Because, I mean, otherwise, I'm standing kind of all my tip toes of wedge in my feet between rocks. U. So, like, I'm I made myself a

really nice. Really nice standing platform, and that took that took me a while, and then I'm up there and it's like, well, it's pretty windy. I I suppose I had to just take my quiver off my boss. I took I took the quiver off and so I, lay out my arrows, So Had all my arrows laid out, like, in case they needed thinking. Could you stuff needed

to get Western, Yeah. And then, I don't know, I'm standing there above them, and it's staying, like, close to 3 hours at this point since the Buck originally bad. Man. This is... He's really settled in. So It's like, well, why don't I just... Why don't I just draw on Aim At and and just practice drawing and naming adam it. He's he's bed at dead away. The other buck he was with that a dead away, the wind steady, but not hard. So so I drew and aimed at him, like,

5 or 6 times. And just every time I drew my bow, I got a little bit more settled. U. And I was just... I I talk myself through the shop process. Every time I draw just, like, focus on the grip. Level, anchor, you know, folks on the pan and then the spot you wanna hit. And he's was like, I talk... I had Had a mantra that I had built up. Yeah. And I'm I'm I'm just coaching myself through and every time I drew on him is just like, that that last time I drew on them

before I shot. It's like, this year is so dead. There's not a doubt in my mind. You had that when stands up. I knew it. And and I just... I felt it, like, I really, really believed it. And when he when he did finally stand up, it it kinda rattled me because he just instantly looked up at me. He didn't hear me or anything. He just... I think he'd been facing the other way, and I seen a lot of times when big bucks get up, but instantly just look the other

way to see what... What's the direction they're wanting to go. But, this buck had a habit of, like, walking straight out, like, you'd stand up and a lot of times they'll shape their legs and, like, stretch out a little bit. This bucket get up and just start walking. So as soon as I as soon as I saw him starting to get up, I just instantly drew my bow, and and I had the pin on him and he's looking up at me and it's like, man, I I think I just gotta go for. He's he's not... I don't think he's

aware of me at this point. Yeah. But he's looking up. So it's like, okay. I I think everything felt perfect. The Pin was just on him. As soon as as soon as he was up, upright, the pin was just where it needed to be, and I... And without even thinking about it, the bow went off, and and I'm watching here I'm like that felt perfect. He ended up taking a step and it hit him back. But I mean, height was perfect. And, like, it it sounded like somebody hit a watermelon with a baseball

bat when yeah. God had hit him. Yep. It was it, like, oh, man. And I could see instantly. He was sick. What does he do when you hit? Does he take off? Is he running? Stand there? He... When I hit him, he ran 20, maybe 30 yards, and, like, you could just tell he was ill. Gotcha. Like, 6 Is it still in sight. You're reloading arrows probably. Yep. And and I got another arrow knocked and I'm getting ready to shoot again and he just starts walking slowly off the shale.

And he was pretty quickly, like, in a position where I couldn't really shoot him again. I gotcha you. But he stopped at, like, a hundred and 40 yards out and, like, he he was he was sick sick. I hit him... I didn't him back. I mean, I, you know, be honest with that I hit him in item in the guts. Is was probably 4 inches behind lungs where the the arrow went in, and Yeah. So Mean, I'm not I'm not the proudest of that. Yeah. Joe what happens. He's he stepped out of my... You know, he

he steve took a step. Yeah. And, yeah. So it's, like, I'm. Them Like, man. I think this deere gonna... I think the deer is gonna make a bed and die. So I climbed back out of my shooting spot and I messaged my buddy and he's like, man, I watched everything. He's sick. He's bed down, like,

it looks good. I'm okay. Just gonna sit up here and wait, and I gave him... I gave him by an hour, and I messaged from my buddy again, and and he's, like, he he went another hundred yards straight down the hill, and he's bed having a hard I'm keeping his head up. And he's got eyes on him, the whole theme. Yeah. Yep. You can't see him at this point? No. He can see everything. He's across a

canyon 1400 yards away. Cool. And, and about the hour and a half mark, like, the deer was still ba in his head up, and it's like, man, I need to do... I need to do something. Like, If I bump this year, I think he's probably gonna run and just die. U. But I think I can I think I can get in on them? I mean, I'm sure you remember last year how wet everything wasn't yeah like it rained. Through single day. I swear did. Yeah. Yes. So I mean, the... There's that

1 plant. Think he's called Mules here, But, like, everybody probably knows it because it you know, it's it's it's a big leafy plant and in by September. Yeah. It's the 1 that you get, like, 4 feet away from it. It makes loudest noise on the earth. Yeah. Yes. And those those were still green. Yeah. They were they were... All of the sticks were damp, like the ground the the dirt had, like, moist cake consistently. Consistently. Like, you couldn't make noise walking

unless you tried to. Such a une ear. Yeah. And I'm like, man, I think I can sneak in on that book again. I'll just get on the blood trail, and I'll follow it down the hill. Because there's so much down to timber that, like, if I just stay behind down timber and poke my head up and just barely glance, like, I'll follow the blood trail right

to him. Mh. And I followed the blood trail, maybe 200 yards down the hill, and I found his little buddy, and then I I peaked up a little higher and I used staring straight at me. So I duck down. So it's his buddy with him. Still his buddy hanging with him. Yep. Okay. Yep. His buddy was still right with him and like blood trail, like, good blood... Like, what were you seeing it? Like, using quite? Was? He was bleeding. Okay. Yeah. It it wasn't it wasn't subtle. I had.

I hit him with a sever... I hit him with a sever 1 and 3 quarter. Nice. And yeah. So III had to creep a little bit farther to get to where I could get a solid place to stand up and knocked another arrow, talk to myself through my shop mantra again. I arranged the tree that was right behind him. And I stood up and just let him have it. He he went, like 5 guards and fell off of a cliff. Oh, man. All bet that was just Oh, yeah. So cool. Dude. Well, was... It was loud. Like, he fell

probably 60 feet. Re oh that like, oh, I didn't know, like, a, 60 foot. Oh, wow. That... Yeah. My buddy is 1400 yards away, herd him land at the bottom. Oh, jeez. Yeah. Shred the velvet he broke he broke a 3 inch tin and then chipped another 1. Like, it was... He took some damage, but I mean, I was just... Was so. Like, I was just... I was so over the top. I've had all, batman. So long for so long to try to find a a buck like that, and then to have it all happen.

With a bow, and and with 1 of my absolute best friends, and you know, I've I've killed a lot of deer by myself and man it it it's fun when you can have a really good buddy there. And just... Yeah. Dude just enjoy it with for sure. Yeah. Do you so that's so cool. So you get down there. Around the cliff, get your hands on. And what'd do you think, man? Just... I couldn't figure out how he was so big. Like, I've never ground he grew. He grew what you got.

Yeah. He was growing. Yeah. I'd you know I talked with a bunch of people and I was thinking, like, best case scenario this year's like, maybe just over 200 at at past, like, 02:04 02:05 is is what I was thinking. I I really thought there's a legitimate chance he was high 1 nineties. It's not have been... I'd have been over the top no matter what, but Yeah. I just... I wasn't expecting, like, 27 inch main beams and 40 plus inches of mask. Like, it had inside tool.

I'd never calibrated off of something like that. Yeah. That's so cool. Yeah. And then it... I I'd, you know, we got them packed out and got and took back to Camp, and then it given it a lot of thought. It's was like, man, I had to go... I to go at least let this other guy know that this buck dead. And like that's... You know, it's... I've had big, you know, big, big deer that I'd hunted before and and you spent a whole season looking for them and you know, if if

if you said rather not waste... Have him waste a you're looking to... You're a commendable guy to do that. Serious. That's freaking awesome. So, yeah, We ended up taking him over to the guy's camp, And it was funny because he was hunting... He was hunting with another guy that I actually knew really well. Pretty good... Really good, dude. I... The knew

him pretty well. And it's funny because it was pitch black when we got over there and, as soon as we got to their camp, I I was holler Adam and and his buddy like, Tony. Yeah. I hadn't Haven't introduced myself or but recognize recognized my voice. And as just... As soon as I said, yeah. He's, like, Oh, shit. You killed that dear didn't you. He knew. So. He he knew. But the the crazy thing was, that I told you that night that I'd stayed in there so late. U. He thought I killed it that night.

He could figure late the other reason. Why you were other there. Yeah. Be in here so late and then gone the next day. Myself in that yours... Those shoes too, I would've have thought the same thing. See you guys sitting up on them... Yeah. For sure. Yep. And then he knew I was gone the next day. So he's just like, man. He'll impact him email. He's out of here. He thought the deer was already dead and gone and halfway gave up on it. Oh my gosh. I don't know... Like, this guy's a good

honor. I don't know if that on I'm not sure. I mean, it's hard to read read through somebody else's mind, but I don't know that everything would happened the way it did had that not played out. For sure. No. Yeah. Well, yeah. And I I honestly, as I sit here and I put myself in that, do you choose if I... Yeah. I to probably thought the same thing for sure. Yeah. So, I mean, the whole thing... The whole thing just a, like, absolute whirlwind from start

to finish. It was it was such a roller coaster, and then after I got him killed, and I got to thinking about a like, man. I could hunted all my other tags. But Yeah. First... Sure. But... Yeah. Sometimes no like that. So, Dude, what did he end up scoring? So I was... I don't know. I I... I've... Conflicted sink... Because that that night, we we had crappy stuff that we measured him with and we measured him with Velvet that we

can... It's hard. Yep. We we we 4 we 4 tired person panel scored them at at, like, midnight at at 02:16 and a half. And then, I scored them after I stripped in, like, a day or 2 later, and I had him at, like 02:14. But, you know, I was counting the time that he broke off. Yeah. And then I'd... He had another time that is actually, like, inch and a half. But it's wider than it is long, so I didn't realize that's

that's ineligible. But I ended up having To bed score him and his official final net score was like, 02:04 and 586. That's a net score. 02:04. I think. Yeah. He he netted almost the same as he gross. Did check Well, like, I figured if if he hadn't a broke and everything you would have been close to to 02:08. That's so cool, man. Well, good for Dude. So cool, man. Like, Yeah. I... That's just... I don't know. And dude your first buck with a bow? Is that right?

Yeah. First off of the ball holy cow. That is so cool. Like don't Like, yeah. That is so cool, man. Like, I just love that. That story is Epic. Yeah. Yeah. It just... It... I mean, the whole thing was... Was like a fairy tale felt like. So what was your thoughts about? Your guy that's really got it done with a rifle a lot? And just what is your thoughts about Bow hunting? Because, like, I'm interested to hear your thoughts? Like, is it something that, like, dion is, like, thinking about doing

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I I have a lot of regrets in my life. Looks she's back on it now. It's like, how many opportunities did I not look at? Because I'd narrowed myself into a, like, small narrow path of how I wanted to do everything. Like... And I think You know, I still don't think I'm a good bow owner. Like, by by any stretch of the imagination, I think I think the circumstance that happened was I understood a deer really, really well. And

yeah. And I knew I knew what situation I needed to make it happen, and III leveraged my knowledge of that deer. And made and made it effective, which, you know, I I honestly feel like I've probably been at the point where I could have done that for fibers 6 years now. Like, and I still... Like, I legitimately don't think I'm a I'm I'm any better than than the average person, that's that's a reasonably good Bull hunter, 6 I'm not I'm not quiet. I'm not sneaky,

but I I think I... There's a lot of opportunity for a guy who can figure out how it deere patterns. And then just take advantage of your man. Yes. Animal wanna behavior advantage of something that that deer does. And I mean, you're not gonna make... A stock every day. You're not gonna make the stocks that that the guys that are really affected Bow

owners are gonna be able to make. But, man, you can a you can be there and you can look for the right opportunity and know know what a deere weakness is and take advantage of it. Yes. So we'll definitely looking at stuff differently. Well, dude that's so good to hear because, like, man, 1 of my... Like, I I always tell people. And I didn't and there's guys guilty on both sides of this spectrum for this. Like, I talk to these guys and they wanna be... They wanna, like, kill big bucks and

it's interesting. Someone like, oh, I only bow. Or I only rifle hunt. And, like, if your goal is truly to kill, like, big mule deer, and I'm talking like, you know like that. Top end, like 1 90 p, like big box. Dude to paint yourself in a corner and only hunt with 1 weapon is the craziest thing to me. Like, I'll never understand it because I just think of all the opportunity And I and I get some guys just love the Bow. They love. But

dude... There's just so many things you can take advantage of, like, during that artery season. I... I've said it for years, man. I really think the time to kill, like, really big bucks is our tree season. Like, I think your scouting really pays off. You're not like, up against, you know, migration, winter storms, like all of that kind of stuff. It just... I don't know there's

something about that early season. I think a deer III honestly believe your odds go up, bow hunting, killing, like, truly big bucks, at least that's been my experience, but It's hard sometimes to get it done, but I don't know, man. It's just... I'm so glad that all worked out for he dude and like, that's just cool. And now I'm just excited to see what you get done with a bow in your hands because now, I mean, those deer got you hunt them for another solid 30 days

they're in trouble. Yeah. Well it's just... It's silly because I I mean, I've got... I'd have to look on them for a minute to think it through, but I've got... I don't know how many of these deer that are pretty much all general Idaho deer. That I could have hunted all of September. Yeah. It's like, how much more effective could I have been on a second animal if I got the first 1. Right?

In September. Because, like, right. I really... You know, it's it's really tough to kill 1 good buck, especially if you're if you're narrowing yourself into doing it in October Like, It's just You know, I got I got a family. I got a job. I've got a wife, and I've got responsibilities. And, like, and I also know, like, I'm really only super effective for 3 to 4 days and it's time and you know, you you just... There's not that many weekends in October. Yeah. And and then

you... That's not even factoring in, like, bad weather windows or, like you, you know, other other weird scenarios where it's like, there may be, you know, the the the buck I I killed that was right above where my truck was parked. I I was in there opening morning. There's 13 trucks at the trail head, and it was such a cluster, but I'm not even gonna try. To help this deer for another. I wanna come in the middle of next week. Like, I wanna have this deer on a Wednesday,

because there was opening morning. I found that deer right you know, just a little bit after first light up close to the top of the ridge, and I'm trying to figure out a plan for killing him. And there's 2 other guys that are 300 yards away from him on the top of the ridge. So it's like, man. This... You know, as soon as he saw them, he busted out, but it's just like, man, there's just, you know, there's so many things that can go wrong and so few ways that it all

goes right. So you just give yourself as much opportunity as you can. For sure. I dude I... I completely agree. Man. I've set it for years. I truly believe the hardest time to kill a big mule dear. This is just this is and I'd argue this to the day I die for a hundred reason. But I truly believe it's like October tenth to about the 20 fifth of October and like, it's like, basically Idaho general rifle season. Like, it is so tough. Like... Yeah. There's just

so many things that change. And I mean, I a lot of the places. I hung I am I have been completely snowed out of, like, you are not getting in there. Without a snowmobile bill until, like, October fifteenth. Or later after October fifteenth. Like, ben completely snowed out, can't even go in there I I have snowmobile build in there and, like, get up there. There isn't a deer track, everything's migrated out, and you know, and it's just 1 of those deals that...

Sometimes that does happen. I know what you were saying about, like, deer not moving. I think that's generally the case, but I think sometimes, you know, I don't know. It things do happen. Oh, every... Yeah. Every area is different. Yes. And The year the year before that, I, another year, I hadn't found anything scouting and I ended up. 1 of the only bucks in recent time that I I killed that I hadn't had found beforehand in Idaho. It's no Wanna say, like, 18 inches where

I was in October tenth. Mh. You, And it it just... I was absolutely getting hammered, and that's... That's why I killed that box because there was so much snow on the ground and it was so cold. But, like, man, that things can go so hard in any direction you can't predict it. So just... Give yourself as much opportunity as you can. Yes. And there's something about deer with Velvet on. They... And I think there's a few different things that are into play there. I think

they're velvet being on. They don't really like that. Cover quite as much, I don't think they, like bang in their ant on, like, cover. I think they really do a good job of avoiding it. Like, if you ever been walking, and you bump a velvet covered deer and you watch them like, Bob and weave as they're going through, like, cover. And then I've done that with, like, a hard ant Deer and dude He's just banging in his

head through the Ant like, doesn't care. And I truly think there's some... I think I see that, like, they're just out in the open. Well, and then their coat, you know, like, the summer coat. I think they're... They can handle, you know, sitting out in the sun a little more. I I just think they're out in the open a little more. And I I think Velvet Deer. I know this. If I add a choice, Like, if I had, like, somebody said, I got this 225 inch back. Would you... You get to honey. But I'm

gonna give you 2 choices. Would you hunt him hard horn or Velvet, and you only get 1 or the other? Dude, I'm taking that velvet every time? Because I'm like, and I doesn't matter the weapon just because I think I could probably... Get it done, You know, Like, I just would probably see him more. I'd probably figure him out to probably get his pattern a little better and probably be able to kill him, but that's just my take. So I I agree with with most of that, but I do have a little bit

of a diver opinion about how... How people say bucks get so much harder to find when they go hard horn. I think I think it's a lot more... I think it's a lot more than, like, some behavioral change in the deer, I think you if you look at it, like, I think that's a huge part of it. So what... I mean, at the same time as Buck shed velvet it. First or second week of September for frost. What else happens first first frost. Yep. It's So they change Dude. Transitioning to differ food sources.

They've got a heavier coat that comes in at the exact same time. Yep. So they're more uncomfortable with moving around and being hot. Like they're. Yep there... It's it's the least time of demand I think for a deer. So, like, for thermal regulation, I think a deer is most comfortable in that weather window between early September and mid off. October. Like, they're just you're they're just on cruise control before the rut happens. They're not trying to burn energy.

However, much weight they've put on they're gonna put on because the super nutrient rich food is is now no longer available. Yep. So it's, like, I think they're just... I think it's a lot of things happening. But I think a big part of it is that their their demands to do things is so dramatically reduced that once that they're just... They don't need to move as much. And they don't want to move as much, and it's not comfortable to move as much. They're harder to

see. I mean, they lost the bright red coat Now they're a dull gray brown harder to see. Just even that alone, They're harder to see, you know, like, your eyes it just gets a little different. Yep, For sure. While the amount of hours that they're gonna spend up on their feet are dramatically cut. Like, so just, you know, have everybody

finds stuff based off of movement. Like, the amount of the percentage of time that people find a time sticking out of the brush is so low, I think it's comic personally. Like, that's. On it. So if if people see stuff because it move, and the animals are now moving, like, 60 percent less, I'm just making up a number. Yeah. But it's a dramatic amount less. Well, you're gonna see less than half as many deer because you saw them because they moved. Yes. So

But that's why I'm so... Yep. That's why I'm so adamant about, like, I'm gonna know this deer top to bottom where he beds where he hangs out. Because then those small windows that he actually moves, I'm really dialed in where I'm looking. Yes. Well, dude, like, the whole frost thing. I think it's so important that hunters understand that because it could... I think it completely

changes a Deer die. I am convinced that once you get, and it might be like a couple for us, but I think that nutritional value of plants completely changes like, There's multiple different species of plants that they can even eat until a frost happens, and then they will switch over and do that Elder barry is like, do you... It's so crazy if you can find an Elder berry bush, like up in deer country?

And you really pay attention to him most of the time, if you go walk around like an Elder berry bush. And it's in pretty good deer country, you will not, like, anything those deer can reach it has been 8, like once it frost and have frost happens. They can't eat those berries. I think they're poisonous. Yeah. They're poisonous. I think it's... I can't remember the ad. What it is. It's like, it might be the same thing that's in, like, an apple seed.

But mh. It's basically poisonous as soon as it freezes, that poison gets sucked down into the roots of that plant, and then they're edible. And do gear. Love them. And they they will never touch that plan until it freezes. And so there's all of these changes that are going on that I don't think the average guy. And I do hear a lot of people just say, oh, they become a different animal. I like you said when at the... I

don't believe that... I don't either... Well I mean, All summer long, I watch a mow down, like, fire weed and all these different flowers. As as as soon as it freezes hard. You all of the flowers stop and fall off. They don't care about it. They completely almost ignore it. Like I've watched them across the hillside. They're all a sudden hitting browse. You know what I mean? Like, yeah it's weird. There's just things going on that I don't think I wish I could talk to a deer for a day.

Yeah. I... Well, I'm right there with you that, but they are They are not a different animal. They're the same animal under different circumstances is Yes. Is, I think a hundred percent of what it is. Yes. Well, in your whole, dude the whole movement thing, it's 1 of the funniest things. I see you guys get crazy. Like, not... They'll get into a spotting scope using a spotting scope for 2 hours, and they literally will never look back in their and they're just picking apart this hillside

looking for, like, a 9. Due to such waste of time, I put a guy that is using a spotting scope efficiently smartly, and then putting a guy using tens, like, just some 8 whatever. 8 power, 10 power, and he's, like, rolling them in to scan the entire area, it may say every. It's at least once every 10 minutes for maybe 1 minute or whatever. Just making sure he's looking at all of it, Do you don't bet money. That guy that's going back and forth the bin. Is probably out spotting the guy getting super

crazy with the spotting scope. It's just filled a view and all of those things forward to play. Like 4 to 1. 4 to 1 he's eval spotting guy. I... And... Yeah. Spotting scope has its place. Like, I'm... You... You'll never see me anywhere without a big spotting scope with you. My small spotting scope is is ASTX 95, and then I've got a 01:15 for what it gets really serious. And then love... And then on 6... On trips where I don't wanna take a spotting

scope By taking Fcc. So... Yeah. Yeah. You know, never no like, that... There's there's no trip that I don't have some kind of supplies. Send the same way, man. Won't be with... For me, for me, spotting scope starts, like spotting scope lasting, like, starts at 2 miles. This spotting scope learn to verify what I saw with my bin. Yes. And you're... So you're a cover... You're you're in the cover the hill camp. 20 times

versus cover it thoroughly once. Right? That's kind of the camp you'd would put yourself in. Oh, yeah... Yeah. Just glued on it. Just glued on it staring at you know, different sections of the... You know, III tried grit sometimes. I get bored. I'm, like, and, like, every other Adhd deer hunter out there. Like, let me new, man. You know, I just... I bounce around, like, a fart and skillet it. So it's like, I I go from high probability. I spend most of

my time in the highest probability thoughts. Yep. And then I'll scan around, like, different transitional areas where I don't expect to see him as much. Yep. But I still always look at them. And you know, I try and I try and be efficient with the time I'm able to pay attention. Like, pretty good at focusing on mule dear, but but, you know, being able to truly focus, like, hours and hours and hours on end, It it really takes a lot of effort.

Yeah. Well, and I dude not... I've honestly, over the years, I used to kinda be that guy, Like, I would I would sit... I and I'd go with somebody buddies, you know, and I'd sit and get really serious in a spotting scope, And I'd be, you know, scanning into those hard to look at places and I'll still do that. But dude, I have this rule, And I I like, have this rule in the back of my head. If it's been more than 10 minutes, and my bin particulars have not been on my tripod. I'm breaking all of

the rules. Like, throughout the day, I will always... Even if I'm getting serious looking with my spotting scope, maybe far away. I'll always just get my bin out and go through a complete scan of the entire area a dude, and I can't tell you how many bucks I picked up. That all of a sudden got on their feet, their change in beds, maybe the sun hit him. Who knows

what the reason is. But I spot them that way where if a guy is just sitting in his spotting scope looking at this hundred foot section of the mountain, he misses all that. And it's I don't know. I think you can get too wild in a spotting scope. Yeah. I think that frequency of exposure, like, just the amount of times you look at all the important parts of the hill is Yes. It's super critical.

Yeah. It was it real... I'm I'm glad you brought that up because it was just interesting to hear you say that because, like, I am in that exact same camp. But I know there's guys that are efficient you know, and they get get it done and they really spend a whole bunch of time in a spotting scope. Are you Are you an angled spotting scope guy or a straight body small guy. Straight straight spotting style. My angle wonder bat. My guy because, like, dude, this is another

thing. And And I I actually got a podcast coming out about this, but, like, this is my thing. If you have an angled spotting scope, you're adjusting your tripod. And when you adjust your tripod, I don't care who you are, you start to get lazy, and you don't go back and forth between and spotting scope like you should be. That's my take. And, like, to change I think for a guy to be super efficient, you should be able to spot something in your bin vernacular and without

adjusting that tripod in... I'm talking in 10 seconds. Have that book in your spotting scope. Exactly. You didn't touch your tripod just switching quickly out. I think that's super important. But... Yep. Yeah. Yep. I can't stand angled spotting scope. I also think you're... I I don't care how proficient you are. Your slower finding game with an angled spotting scope. I agree to I agree too, dude in, like, in the thick country, like you were talking about hunting the burns.

You know, there's some of those hillside that I'm glass into. And, literally, it looks like there are parts of it, the look the exact same for, you know, I don't know half my. Like, it's just... It's all the same. And there are some times you find something in my my bin oc and all I do, hit my quick release. Grab my spotting scope, put it in there and that buck will be in the field of view of my spotting scope just like well, as my.

Additionally to that, like, I actually tune my plate on my spotting scope man, the center of aim on my bin in the center of aim on my spotting you like. It can be tough it can be tough with up down because there's not really any adjust for that. I got a I got a hint for you, dude. So I got these Shi they're Mh. Ultra fine. What who are you... Which system are you using? I I've got a, through ray. So I got a plate that will go.

If you're using something that attaches, so you're right, like, if I use, like outdoors system versus, like Sw like I put, like, an outdoors rail. I like their balance rail underneath my spotting scope just because it I kinda lets me get away with a little smaller. But dude, I got these little... Tiny metal shi like, I'm talking. I don't know if they're, like a thousand they are so... I don't even know what they're made out of, but dude, I can adjust my height, I actually... I'll have to

show you this. I can, like, it's super cool. Like, get left and right. Perfect and my up down so, like, it's money. That stuff matters. It does. Dude, like, it... I think it really does. Like, in... Because there's been instances. This is what's happened to me and why I kinda got into this. Is I dude I caught this buck, you know, in my bin particulars. I'm hall in ass, I'm getting my spotting scope out. I get it on and all I see is the tell of him. Going into the trees because I had to make

a little adjustment like that. Dude you cost me sitting on that mountain for freaking 3 days Dude, I lost those 3 days, and he ended up being a good book, but I wasn't, like super excited about in pursuit at the time when I saw him going into the trees. I was like, that's a good buck. And if I would've have just been on him a little faster, and then there's been some other instances I never even got to see the deer again. So, yeah.

Well, additionally to that, the other thing I've kind of adopted, I view almost all of my spotting scope looking through my cell phone now. U. And I record everything. Mh. Because I can't tell you how many times I've seen a buck for just a second or 2, and he only gives you that 1 good look. Really quick. And you can lie to yourself about what you think something is on a first impression judgment.

Yes. But, man, if you can go back and zoom in and rewind and book back and and look at them from every angle he gave you. Even if it's a little bit lower quality than actually just seeing it through the glass. I feel like that's better for for scouting for sure. To the Otherwise, I can't tell you how many gear I've seen for a second or 2, and they just give you that 1 quick look and it's like, do I stay here tomorrow? Or do I go somewhere else? Completely agree to. Dude there's been so many

times. And even when I had various, like, phone scope type systems. Like, I'm looking at the deer watching and walking at the trees, like exactly like you're saying, and I didn't dare, put my... Take the second to, like, miss this deer walking into the trees, and I'd... Have no footage man. Like... Yeah. Yep. What covered it on as soon... So I... I'm using all in right now and And it just... Everything is a compromise. The the all really...

It's the fastest for getting Yes. Everything put together. But the case is just not awesome. And Right the Yeah. The double sticky tape that they use to put on their little magnet piece is kinda junk. Mh. And then you lose you lose the flashlight on your phone and you lose lose your wide angle lens and you lose your Zoom lens so, like, My camera only works from 1 x to 2.9. So it's like, you know, because there's sometimes where I like the digit scope on a

higher Zoom on my phone. You get a little bit more light out of your phone than than if you do like a manual magnification on your on your spotter. You pursue them. You cherish them. And now it's time to protect them. This is the mule foundation. Our mission is the conservation of Mule black tailed deer in their habitat. The heart and soul of the west.

Join the herd today and help us preserve the legacy of these majestic creatures for generations to come Your membership supports essential conservation projects, research initiatives and educational programs it's cure a future from Mule deer and black tailed deer, our dear, our heritage, power responsibility. Don't just witnessed their journey, be a part of it. Join the herd together, we can make a difference. Visit Mule dot org today. Dude I'm with you... So I'm using the

same... The all into. I don't think there's a better system out there. As far as speed, like, to throw it up on itself aligns. Everything's perfect. I do love it. I just wish they could make those few little tweaks. Like, I think if they could make, like, somehow figure something out. I don't know if they made it slide into play. I don't know. That I just wish they could come up with something. Yeah. If agree. I'm I'm... I... And I feel like the Mag view I got to where I could I could have it

adjusted in maybe 2 seconds. Like, I was pretty darn fast at it. Most of the time I get it right where it need to be... And have to make just, like, a tiny fractional shift. But it it's it's better for everything else, but it's like, I don't Don't... There's no... Everything's a compromise. Yes. I agree, man. And I think... But I do think for me, like, in the heat of the bad, like, defining a buck. It's just like I want that thing quick and on there in 2

seconds. I don't even have to think about it. Yeah. But what you what I ended up doing is I I take the all in case off for just like regular... Stuff. U. I then what happens, I forget the dang thing sometimes. So oh, yeah. Yep. It's just... I don't I don't know. There's there's no perfect answer for sure, I do I do have 1 other thing I wanted to hit you with. Yeah. Because we were we were originally gonna do this a few months ago. And I'm like, man, on a few days away from getting

the back. On the butt. Yes. That dude, And I I like, I got... We got tele taco bucks story it. Yeah. Dude. The age. I want it. Yes. On So and and this ties into the the other guy that was on him. And he'd actually get hunting him for 2 years. And he had pictures and, like, good quality pictures and video of the buck. The year before Know this. I do... Dude, I don't think you... Yeah. I think when you... We were talking about this, is said don't tell me anymore. I wanna get it on the podcast.

Yeah. So The buck was 8 years old, lab age. And I don't know... You know, it was such a good year. Weather wise for growth, but I don't know if the if the winner beat him up so hard. Bet Bet gross score he probably about the same, but his mainframe was definitely bigger the year before. So it's so to read into that too much. So it's very... Did you listen to Robbie and doctor Monte. The they all your guys. Yeah. So so, Dude, he was seeing on collar deer. Now, this is really good data.

That he was seeing of, I think he... I I could be quoting this wrong. So sorry if I got this wrong, everybody. But I'm pretty sure he said it was like 10 to 20 inch, different average on all of the bucks that they had colored. Now you gotta keep in mind. Some of those deer they're looking at. 10 to 20 inches is going to be, like, 10 percent of their score. Like, they're looking at, you know, deer from hundred inches, like, small 2 point like, small stuff, all the

way up to... Yeah. And they were seeing a 10, to 20 inch. I'm quite sure that's what it is. I know it was over 10 inches. I swear. Yeah. And then I talked to some of the I've talked to some guys that are kinda working, like guided hunting places like private property and they were kinda confirming with some of the deer, they they had been like, watching over the years that last year if the deer did survive, which that some of that. Just didn't happen. But they were

seeing the same things. They were even saying even more. And then I look at like Scotty Thomson, buck from last year, the year prior, you know, he was watching in multiple years, down you know, 15, 20 inches. So it's interesting that your dear, was at age? Was he hitting that age or was it just that freaking rough winter? You know, did it, like... And that was last year that they were seeing all those stunt growth?

Winter just dragged on so long, and I mean, I don't think nutrition was there for. Like it was good. Once it green up, but it took a while. So it's interesting. That's very interesting. And it's so dynamic because I think I think Central Idaho is probably some of the worst deer habitat that grows big deer in this country. Like, it's... You know, we have big deals Got it, it just doesn't... It doesn't make sense because everything, you, you know, if you if you look, if you look

at what... Central Idaho is composed of. They they call the Idaho bath. It's all it's all rock. Like, Yes. It's 1 giant granite rock structure, And most of the dirt is just ground down granite. Like, it's not actual dirt soil like, what, you know, everywhere else has. It's all just broke down rock, and there's not... I don't think there's like, great mineral content in it. So I think our average deer, like, you look at our average year and they're pretty

much smaller than everywhere. We have some exception... Deer, but, like, on average, I think it's way worth. Yes. Wyoming or Colorado or Utah. And I think I think that contributes a lot to, you how much longevity those deer have. It's just they're like, they're not on as good of habitat. And I think that I think that just... I think what you would probably see is their teeth wear fast. And this is all just, like, you know, amateur Yeah. Guessing its stuff off of really limited information

and no scientific process at all. But it seems it seems like I would assume Dear in Central Idaho probably go downhill earlier. Very well. I think they live... I think they live a harder life. Yes. But it's it's so hard to say, because I mean, there's there's so many different variables and there's so many different contributing factors, But how did it teeth look to you? Because, like, everything that I've killed So let's see. I think I've killed

I... I'm trying to remember how many 4 I think 4 over 8, and I think it's been kind of interesting that 04:08 that I think, maybe it was... Yeah. Anyways, did I... The teeth wear has been... A little different on all of them. I gotta say. Like, in fact, 1 in Colorado, the last 1 I got out of Colorado, I didn't think his teeth looked near that bad. He was a 9 and a half year old deer, but I didn't think his teeth like, I would never guessed that looking

at his teeth. I thought he was gonna come back. You know, over 6 for sure, but I I that really shocked me. So how did this box teeth look? Like did they... They were starting to get pretty worn down. And from what I understand, like, how sharp a deere teeth is directly relates to how much nutrition they can get out of their feet. Mh. And his teeth were definitely starting to look less sharp, which is kinda crazy because... And this will tie into something else I'm really

excited to tell you about. The deer I killed the year before was 9 and a half. And had dramatically better teeth. The deer killed the year before that was 8 and a half and had dramatically better teeth. Interesting and and all of them from Central Idaho. I mean, 3 different units, but... And did all of those bucks? Did you know about them the year prior? Did they, like... Go up. So I only knew about 1 of the 8 year old deer. Okay. I'd known about him for 2 years before I killed him.

Cool. And he'd stayed about the same size. And she was pretty close to the same size. The 1 the year before, he's he's the 1 I killed that had, like, 21 inch long g twos and really Goofy looking Forks and and he's only scored, like, 01:60 something. That's so interesting man. Yeah. But the other crazy revelation because I've aged my dear for, I got all my mats and things. Opened up now. I started agent deer. What was it, like, 27...

16 or 17. U. It's 17. So I've aged everything I've killed since 20 17. And it was just like a month ago. Maybe I was looking at all over And, I killed my my buck last year was 8. My buddy Awards buck was 8. Another buddy mine Anthony. All of these in you know, on a pretty tight area to where I killed my butt. U His butt was

also 8. So we killed 3 deer that were 8 years old out of the same area, you And then I looked at my buck the year before was 9 and a half, and then I had another 8 and half year old deer, and then a 5 and a half year old deer. And I'm adding all the ages up on these. I haven't killed a deer in the state of Idaho that's been born since 20 15. Dude that's incredible.

Yeah. And, I mean, historically, my my average age years is 4 and a half, 5 and a half years old, which makes sense because there's gonna be there's gonna be more of those that that hit the size threshold that I'm gonna wanna shoot. Yep. If if you're looking at everything without any other influencing factors, but that age class doesn't exist. Yeah. Like hasn't existed for a while now. Yeah. So I've been killing older and older deer by virtue of their That's what all like. Exactly all it's flat.

Yeah. It's so true. It really is so true. It really is. Dude that's, like, that's really cool, man. The... I mean, god, just throwing those numbers out like that. Dude... That's super impressive. Like, to do that in central Idaho. We're talking general season. None of these have been like draw tags right Dion. They're all just like, oh. I mean, to do that on that is commendable, man. Over, like, That's impressive.

The craziest 1 of all of it the 9 and a half year old deer that was living above a trail head, and I'm not even shy about. It was in unit 39. Hey literally, 1 of the busiest 9. And there's 13 trucks, literally a couple hundred yards away from where he lived for 9 and a half years. Take that opening day There was 13 trucks there. And what do you think about that? Bought that that deer... Like, did he just figure something out the...

Hey. I've lived here. There's some trucks down here, but they can't see me like a deal like that where he just kind of exploited a spot. Man, this is at risk of shooting myself in the foot, but I'm I'm I'm so excited about this situation that it's like, it's fun to share anyways. U. So where that deer lived right above that trail head, it was it was, like, an impossible situation for the average person never see that deer. So, yeah. You couldn't see him from, like, where these trucks were

parked? You couldn't see it. Right? Well, I'll explain it. So the trail runs down in the bottom. U. It's so steep at the bottom of the hill that you can't see up. Gotcha. At the top of the hill, there's so much role that you can really only see, like, 20 30 yards, Yep. Because the hill has so much role at the top. And then the middle of the hill, the spacing on the finger ridge is really tight. Like, there's 60, 80 yards between fingers and it's really

brush hillside. Yep. So if you're if you're on the top bottom or on the middle of that hill, There's there's no way to see the deer before they're gonna hear you. Mh. So the only way to see the deer on that hillside is if you're across the canyon. And there's no way to kill those deer from the hillside they're on. So about the only way you could reliably kill a deer on that hills shoot cross Canyon. Gotcha. Dude, I can think... Well, I know.

I mean, 1 of the books I killed in Wyoming, dude this buck, it was a book typical. Dude, he was living literally. I... Like, 1 of the craziest busy trails in Wyoming, dude. I watch guys the day before the opening day when I killed him, I bet you I don't even know how many pack strings, guys with packs. They're all headed way up to the high country. This deer are just chilling right off the trail.

Dude these so close to the trail he would literally, like, when the horses would go by, he would, like, noticeably look up there and, like, be paying attention and just listen. Mh. Let him go on by. Like, he's that like, he is right there. But do you Yeah. Couldn't see him. If you were on that hill because of the way that The hill rolled off. There was no way to see you... Like, you couldn't see from that trail. You would had to hike get off trail, bush at, clear around

and then glass from the other direction. Like, it's it's crazy what deer can tolerate and put up with And, dude, I think they do just sometimes exploit some of these places, the man, like, if he got 9 and a half years old, and free in that unit in Idaho on a general season, he's doing something. Right? Like I'm 10000 people hunt that unit every year for deer. Yeah. It's literally the the highest pressure unit in the state of Idaho. Yes. It's just... In Mx...

It's I've had enough situation like that where it's been like, formative in how my process of finding spots to hunt goes because you know, the big open beautiful Scenic basins that you can glass from, you know, 1 high point, and see 10 of them. Like, any good book that was in those everybody's gonna east out that spot. Like they're there. There was a if there was a good bot there, somebody shot him. Yes. So dude That's not even where I'm looking

anymore. I'm right there with you, dude. I've wrote that I wrote the high country off. I haven't seen a deer that I wanted to kill in the high country. And so long the dude, I don't even waste. Like, I I don't... I don't... III end up going up there because I'm glad alright I go up high and I'll glass up there a little bit, but what are I'm looking is way down low, like, way down in the thick stuff. Just because dude, like,

do they cannot survive? They cannot grow old in a lot of, like, the, you know, the typical high country Like I mentioned that Dear Wyoming everybody's up to that. High country. That's where the books are. That's where everybody wants to be and it's like, yeah, there's bucks up there. There is. Well, but they're not the ones I'm interested in. I'm interested. Of. Like, next level ones. When I when I handed Wyoming a few years ago and I was bouncing ideas off.

I remember you like halfway to chuckle when I told you some of the stuff I was looking at, and you're like, man you're on the right. Yeah. Yes. Yep. For sure. Dude. Like, it's just... I don't know. It's just funny how it's weird. Hunters can be so funny and they'll just do these things that... I I don't know, and maybe somebody was successful. 20 years ago or they... Maybe they've even seen... And and there are an occasional buck,

you know, I... Like, there is an occasional big buck, but usually generally, if you look even if it's a big buck that was killed up in the high country usually like some young like buck that blew up. And got that big, kinda come out of nowhere. You don't really... I don't know of any, like, next level bucks growing old living up in the eye country. It's just not gonna happen, and that's what I want. That's what I wanna look find. Not not in anywhere that has any kind of

hunting pressure. Not in anywhere that you could reasonably get it tech. Like, you can... If if you have some super artificial environment where you've just made such little hunting pressure that they can exist as though people didn't, you know, exist on this landscape, Yeah. I mean, that's that's a thing there, but... Yes. You know, not not anywhere you can get a tag and hunt every year. That's right. Well, dude. There's been a lot of good stuff in this Dion before we close out,

I got... I just... Like, I was wondering, we we kind of made a few suggestions. But if you could look at, like average deer hunters, can you... Is there, like, 1 or 2 things, that you think they're doing or wrong that you would or like, look at it this way. If you could sit down and talk with 20 year old d, what advice would you have for him, Like, just after living, you know, going through, learning all this stuff. Like, is there anything you would say or got any advice. You went through a few

things. Yeah. I've, I've got... I think I got a pretty good answer for that actually, because it it happened, you know, it was it was it was a revelation I I had. And everybody when we hunt, we we apply things that we've seen and experienced and we look... We look at everything we do through this filter of our life experiences. Mh. And more often than not, I think we're wrong.

Mh. If you go into it with the mentality of you have, like, you you know the playbook, you you know, deer think on different levels than we do about different things than we think. I mean, if everybody's going through life with all of these different stress and these different things that their their primary focus is, and and the things that you worry about and care about are are totally different lens to look through life at, Yeah. And and that's probably not the lens that that deere

is looking through life at. So like, everything you do is tainted by by, you know, everything else in your life. So... For me, when I figured out that I needed to be really, really open minded and just say that I've never got more than a good idea what might be happening. I started seeing a lot more opportunity where I was overlooking it. And, like figuring out those places where you know, hey, this doesn't seem like what I think, you, it's right

above a super busy trail head. Know, no nobody kicks that spot as their primary place to go glass. But be open minded all of these different opportunities and stop thinking, you know, like, even for myself, I don't I don't ever go into it thinking. I know what's gonna happen. But I I try and make best best assessments and and take a good guess at it. And then I'm really open to what I see, and and I'm not so firm that I won't change everything I'm doing if I see something

that might be better. Dude, I really like that, because I think there's a lot of... Dear hunters that do are there good hunters. Like, I know like, really good hunters, but the can sometimes get stuck in, like, maybe something that used to work or it worked 15 years ago like, not up to change, and, you know, and I think they kinda get stuck in this rut of, like, I'm gonna keep doing the same thing and never change. III really like that, man.

Yeah. Just approach everything with a really open mind. And and don't discount things just because they're not they're not your first thought of what it should be. Yeah. Dude, I like. Do Dion, I really dude I love talking to you man. You're 1 of my favorite guys talk to. I really too. Like, I just always look forward to talking to you and listening to your take on everything. I think everybody I mean, they know you, but I think everybody enjoy this 1, so, dude,

it was pretty awesome. And I'm so happy to hear that story and Appreciate it and Yeah. I appreciate it. And I I love visiting with you too, and, man, I gotta... You know, I was telling you the other day I gotta give you guys a lot of credit. I I think you guys have the best podcast going for for guys that wanna get better hunting, man. You just... You really need to try to understand the game better and you guys are doing so much

to bring people's really good information. Like, outside of outside of the the stereotypical, what people think they'd probably need to know to be a better hunter like, man, which you guys are bringing so incredible. I learned so much. Listen to you and Robbie talked to all the different guests you have. Well do that. Yeah. Thanks, man. And it it's been. For you know, it's been kinda interesting because I think a lot of the...

I don't know. I think a lot of people they their eyes kinda glaze over when we're talking. And, But do... When we're just talking to biologists and they kinda think, oh, it's same old thing. How much more can you learn? Like, I've heard that comment. Like, I've had... People kinda say that. And I'm just like, man, if you open your mind, you can learn so much. Like, I'm constantly just like, whoa, this is crazy. My mind is just constantly... Like, I'm learning new things all the time,

and I think it's important. I I I'd... I think hunters have got to get just a little better understanding of, like, how everything's working and I think it makes some better deer hunters when you understand it, and make better wildlife management decisions and try to understand, You know, all the things they're going through. And I was the guy that... I mean, this is kind of a funny story, but I was the guy, the blame fishing game

for everything, man. 15 years ago. Yeah. If you would have told myself or me 15 years ago, I'd kinda be in the situation where I'm at, Like, really trying to understand. And and I just finally... I was so frustrated, and I was so upset with just, like, the way things were going. And I'm like, dude, I gotta get involved. I gotta under and more.

And then I start trying to understand, like, what's all these different things that are going on that are affecting Mule deer, and I really, like, get my hands dirty and, like, show up to meeting, show up when they're asking for volunteers, like my mind has just been blown, and I feel so bad for some of the stuff that I said and would comment, and I mean, just I was just an idiot. I really was. Like I was just like, yeah. I spend more time in the woods

than you all of you guys combined. That was me, man, and I I might have spent more time in the woods, but I didn't understand everything the way I should have been like, thinking about things. I I may have actually said those exact words to a biologist at some point. But the the thing that's crazy to me, Is how much we really don't know and how little we can actually change. Like it's... And that's that's the thing that's made me get like, a lot less angry at

at anything fishing game does. It's like, man, They manage people. They don't manage the game. The weather manages the game, the habitat the manages the game. And and there's just... There's so much that we really, really, really don't understand. Mh. That how can anybody have a firm opinion on any of it when we really don't know. And we just... I think it's still worthwhile that to, at least pursue more knowledge and try and get a better idea how we can help these and things and and

and make it sustainable. Because God, I want my kids to have a glory days too. Me too I want my kids to be able to see a 20 15 me too make that's... Dude you don't to see it again. Me too, man. Like, and that's the thing that I keep thinking in the back of my head is, like, it really wasn't that long ago. It was pretty epic. And it's cool. Like, talking to you about it. It just guys all over, you know, and, like, how awesome. We really had wow that dude 2015.

It was pretty good. Like, we had pretty dang good, D. Like, we were lucky And then I had, like, a fraction of an idea what I was doing. And I had had 2 bucks over 1 90 that I was hunting that year, and that was the year I killed my big wide buck. He went 1 80 threes. 32 inches wide in this plug. Man, I... You couldn't swing a dead cat without winning a decent 4 phones. Yes. Like It just I It was... Man, it was so good. And it was such a good time to learn,

man. I I feel like I had such an incredible opportunity spending like, a hundred plus days a year in the hills. And it's just, like, for a guy who had had the opportunity. To go out and learn, you could learn so much faster. Dude. It's right. Like, I... That's what I keep thinking is it's like, man, I was thinking about that. Like, could take all that opportunity I had and all the the deer Was able to screw up on and learn on and do all these

things. Like, man, if I was trying to do that, Like, now it would be way... It would be a lot more of a challenge. You know, It really would. They... Just because the opportunities out there. I'll wonder how many guys that could be phenomenal hunters give up because they just don't get enough reward for their effort.

Like, I'm I'm mean now. I mean, I'm committed now, But, like, how many guys that that If you to put them in that timeline, would have had so many great experiences and seen and learned so many things and it would have been something that stuck with them that now are just getting frustrated and giving up, and like, we can't afford to lose those people. Yes. I think a lot, man. I know a lot of people in the past few years.

That's just pretty much kinda wrote it off and give up and, like, or just lost interest or just not... They they've lost interest in it. Yeah. I mean, I know a lot of guys that are, like, dialed in good hunters that had they had another 5 years when the Hunt was really good. Like, they could have been so much better, but they're just... The the limited opportunity and limited exposure, just not getting to look at as many deer and watches as many critters. I think

it you know, yeah. Some of these guys it's just, like, man, you you you you judge yourself face off of the opportunities you've had, but, like, you're a really good hunter and you've just you know, I started with a great head start. Like, I, you know, it was Yeah. Was good to learn when I did, but like some of these guys now. It's like, man, guys are hard on themselves. They're not not necessarily finding or or doing things that they'd hope to achieve and it's like,

man are tough times? Yes. And and it makes it hard. We've talked about the attitude thing early in... Podcast. But I I think it's way easier when you've been kicked in the teeth for 20 years, and this happens the guys can kinda lose that driver that edge, and they kinda get a bad attitude, and I I think the difference is is guys that succeed. Just keep their head up. They got a positive attitude every years of new year kinda thing. And the guys that are kinda stuck in that,

it's pretty tough to break, You know? It's it's really tough, and I just feel so fortunate that I I got, you know, I... I started when it was easier to have a win and those wins you know, led me to be confident and have, you know, good... Experiences and and feel like even now when it is harder, you know, I've got this this past of of figuring out a way. But, like I figured

out away when it was easier. Yeah. So you know, I don't know if it's a false confidence or or or if it's truly earned, But, yeah, I just... I hope I hope we can get back to where things are better, and I hope lots of people can have have all the great experiences I've had. Me too And my wife life should be so different without it. Yeah. Meet. Oh, dude. Me too. And... I'm convinced we're gonna get back there. Like, we're gonna see some good times again. III

have to think that. I just know that kinda goes back into the attitude thing Like, I'm so excited for this year, man. Like, just talking with you. I'm, like, dude, I gotta get off the... I'm headed to the mountains. You know what I mean? I'm just excited. Like, I just... And I am, but I'm I'm like out anyway, like, every July do this right well, we're still in June, but as July starts approaching what are we now? 10 days from July. But dude does July starts approaching.

I start getting more and more excited. Like, to dude... There's just like something in the air. I don't know what it is. I mean, I cannot wait to get out there and start seeing, like, ant develop. I mean, I've been out quite a bit just looking, but it's kinda hard to tell this time of year, and I'm just Dude, I'm so excited. I love it. You have. Yep. Same. I feel the same way. Yeah. Well, dude, it's always so fun to talk to you man. I shared... I really appreciate your time, Buddy.

Yeah. Thanks for having me on. Hopefully, hopefully, we don't bore people this being so long. I guarantee see They're calling that to dude. They're gonna love us. It's gonna be awesome. I I had a great time talking regardless. So he did. Yeah. Thanks. With the help sports been and women and concerned citizens we can defeat the hunting bans here in Colorado. Go to say the hunt colorado dot com. Thanks for listening.