They're all batch up now. So what happens if you think about it when when you're scouting bachelor herd of bucks, is there's gonna be a lot of empty country because all the bucks are together. Compared to, like, say, October when they break up, you know, you go into this straw. Okay. There's a 2 point of 3 point there. You know, you move up on this little Mesa, oh, there's a buck right over there. You know, they're just more spread out. Where you can go to that same place
now. And it's like, man, there's no deer. I'm not seeing any bucks. Why am I not seeing any bucks? And then All of a sudden you look in the right draw and there's 11 of them. So you gotta remember there can be a lot of country without deer in it when they're batch up like this. The rock cast is powered by On x Hunt and for good reason. On hunt is the number 1 hunting Gps app in the industry. Stay tuned for a rock cast promo code.
Hey, Rock cast world Robbie Den here. Got my old buddy Darren and Cooper on here. Fun fact. He was the editor of Rock slide when we first got started. He is now running rent outdoor gear, 1 of our advertisers on Rock slide. How are you doing, Derek? Doing great. Robbie. Thanks for letting me on. You, bet, man. Sam and I've been talking about it and we just haven't reached out yet. Gosh, we're halfway through the summer here. We we need to get you in front of people.
You've been on before, but for new listeners, tell everybody what rent outdoor gear is all about. So we have a huge selection of kinda high end Western hunting gear that you know, if guys have a gap in there in their gear kit or maybe they're coming out west for the first time or something like that.
You know, we can set them up with with, all the equipment that you might need for a, you know, your back country hunts or you're going to Alaska, and you don't have something that you need or going on, you know, just doing something different or or if you just wanna try out a new piece of gear, a high end optic or something like that.
It's a great opportunity to, use some of this stuff before you go commit big money and and buy stuff side on scene in a lot of cases, you can't you know, go in the sporting goods store and really get a a good feel for gear. So it's... It's just awesome to be able to take something out in the field and Scout with it or hunt with it before before you
make a decision to actually buy it. And then if you do decide to buy it, we don't just rent it, we're also we think the best place to buy it because we can give you a better deal on it. You're gonna save some money over brand new gear. And you're gonna have that opportunity to try it first, but we're also gonna credit that rental back towards your purchase. So it's not like you're just out that money if you do decide to go ahead and and purchase the item.
You're more than welcome welcome to roll that over into a purchase, and and we'll knock some money off the top or it being a lightly used item you still get the warranty, but we'll apply that rental fee toward it. So all in all in all, just a great
program for guys. Some regardless whether you're already a hardcore western hunter with the full gear kit or, you know, you're just getting into it or you're coming out west for a, you know, once in a while thing, and know, you can't justify buying, maybe some of the specialized western gear renting is is a really nice option. You, yeah, Man. I'm I'm a big day, Ramsey fan, and I listen to him all the time, And I hear him chewing people
out all the time on his show. Oh that went out and bought stuff that could have been rented. You know, things that, like, we don't we don't have to use very often, and we go spend a bunch of money in it and and high end Western gear kind of falls in that category. I mean, you know, like, you guys have Bt xs. Right? Oh, yeah. Dude my Bt bts is my favorite because also my least used optic. It... It's probably not real smart on. You know.
But but seriously, Redding makes makes a lot of sense for stuff that a guy, you know, like you said, going to Alaska, maybe need AAA specialized piece of gear for just that trip a year. It sure more easier in a lot of time. Yeah. Rick? Yeah. But well, let I'm let's talk about that. What what are some of the other categories of gear that you that you... That you're in? I'm always thinking optic and rifles, but you guys do other stuff too. Yeah. We've got tents and
backpacks and sleeping bags. So we've got some clothing items like rain gear, jeez. We've got tripod, you know, corona, you know, if you need to go do the data on your rifle, but you're not, like, a hard quarter reload or you're just, you know, trying to get your stuff set up. We have Corona like the lab radar or the new Garmin 0. We've got also the magnet speed. So we got 3 different c graphs there. Yeah. Lots different
sitting in the garage collect dust, man. I think I've used it 3 times in, like, 5 years. Yeah. And you can rent... You know, you can rent a Magnet speed for, you know, 3 8 weekend. There's something like that for about 50 bucks. So You don't have to go shell out 600 bucks. And and the way that technology technologies is moving on some of that stuff right now. You know, it it makes a lot of sense maybe to ramp because it's... There's gonna be something better coming out right around the
corner. So Yeah, We might be doing it with our phones on a little tripod before we know it. No kidding. Other thing about renting that always makes sense to me. Dude does just store and all your gear. You know what Mean? Like, get it when when... I'm using something infrequently, and and I I don't have to store. I I can just give it back. You know, just makes a lot of sense. You you're, like, storing and maintaining it, you know, just, yeah. Playing in the tents and, you know, doing all that
stuff. I I've got a lot better perspective on it because we have to do so much of it now, but it it takes a pretty big effort to, you know, just go through and clean up the optics and, you know, all the gear, weekend week out to keep it in really good condition. It's a it's a chore. Yeah. Yeah. Well be nice to just stick and the box and send it back to you. Everybody's thinking optics right now, and I I think there's been kind of a revolution in the last couple of years on compact spotter.
You know? Yeah. It seem like you were always given up quite a bit or now know, they're still compact spotter. You know, they're not 80 80 millimeters sp they're not 95 spotter, but gosh, you're you're just getting so much performance. In the small packages, what compact spotter are you guys carrying? So we are carrying the the all 3 of the, kind of the 3 new ones that are out, the cal, 55 millimeter, the brand new 1, the, that they just revised.
We've got the new Sw, U, 56 millimeter, and then we've also got the new vortex razor 55 millimeter spotter. Oh. I'm glad to hear that razor made the cut. I haven't got to look through 1 yet. But I know enough guys on rock slide, you know, Travis per tran, 1 of our riders. Those guys are loving those things. For the money, they the the... And the performance are getting out of them. They just can't quit talking about them. So that's great to hear that you've got them too.
Yeah. I... It's it's a category that I think gets overlooked a lot. I mean, excuse me, most guys, you know, want the big glass, but I always say the, you know, the best piece of glass is the 1 that you actually have in your pack when you need it. And there's just a lot of times that I think people end up leaving their 85 millimeters
spotter back at the truck. And if you have 1 of those little ones a 55 or 50 you know, 56 millimeters spotter that, you know, they're really good optics, and there's virtually no reason to leave them behind because, you know, we can get them out with a lightweight tripod and and you've got literally, like, a 3 pound package that you can take into the back country and and barely feel it in your pack. Yeah. Yeah. And, like, this this place I
was, scout this weekend. It's it's a 15 mile ride on a dirt bike on a rough road. I mean, you could get a truck back there, but goodness, who wants to drive a truck on 15 miles of of mountain Roads. And so when I put my pack together, no way, am I gonna have that 80 millimeter beat me the back. I threw I threw in my little S sps 56 and was gone. And. Hardly know it's back there. And Like you said, you know, the best the best piece is the 1 that you've
got. You know, if I could if I could have my V and my my 80 millimeter Ats with me all the time. Yeah Of course. You know, you... You you're gonna see more. Associate the with the the edges of light with with that big. Yeah. 80 millimeter everything. But, you know, for what I what I found for the most part, at least 56 is you're just giving up a a little bit on the edges of light, You know, maybe maybe your field of view isn't isn't gonna be as big, Man they're
they're still. There's there there's so much performance there. Where I didn't even used to think about compact spotter. You know, I... The the most compact 1 I had was that old pirate scope Sw asking it really wasn't considered Compact. But, you know, it was smaller, and, you know, I got years out of that thing. So anyways, mounting systems, you said that you're... You guys are, renting out Tripod too. Yeah. We do. We've
got know. A full line of tripod, everything from, you know, sub 2 pound ultra light backpack and set to you know, full heavy duty rifle tripod for competition shooting. So anything from about 40 millimeter legs to down to 22 millimeter legs. So We've got a really nice lineup, primarily from Leo photo, and then we've got several different heads. We've got ball heads and we've got shooting heads, and then we've also got some really nice lightweight pan head options as
well. And they're all outfitted with Arc swiss. So pretty much our whole system revolves around our Arc swiss mounting. Call right. And, are they any of those, tripod pads compact? Oh, yeah. For sure. Okay. Yeah. We've got ones that you know, we'll fold down to very lightweight and our sub 2 pounds. And we'll, you know, get nice and short, you know, if that's an issue for you, or, you know, we've got the the big stuff too if you're gonna throw something like a set of Cow highlander
on it. We've got tripod buds for that as well. I've got Cow highlander. You know, everything from Cow Highlander down to these little 55 millimeter scope. So Not alright in hand. Cover everything. We've got laser range binder and range finding oc and a little bit everything. Well tell us real quick. What's what's your turnaround time between somebody place in an order and it it hit in the mail. We can turn orders pretty dang quick. However, it's in your best interest to get a
reservation made early because stuff books up. You know, I've got a limited inventory. So, you know, I I encourage everybody to use your 10 percent rock slide discount and, you know, get those orders booked so that you're not left high and dry, if you wait till last minute, There's a good chance, you know, you know, in late October, when the rifle hunts are going, you know, our hot tents. We've got, like, the seek outside tents and and titanium stove. That's stuff
are gonna book up. We're gonna be out. The Bt xs are gonna book up, you know, by the end of October first week in November when lot of those are rifle. High country rifle hunts are going on. So try to get your order in quick. And then if you've never rented from us before to, let's let's try to try to do it at least a week early because we have to bet our customers in.
Go through kind of a process to just make sure everybody is who they say they are and make sure that we get our gear back, at the end of your rentals. So... Gotcha. You guys you rented from us. We can have some... We can have something out the next day Alright. You got any horror stories out there? We've had a few issues with with people trying to scam us, but we're pretty good at spotting in it. So, knock on wood so far so good. But once a person's in your system, that
speeds it up quite a bit. And, you said you you can reserve gears so I knew, I was... Like, I think we'll going to Canada in September. So, if I was like, hey, I'm gonna be gone the fifth of September through the through the twelfth, I could get on and reserve something now. If
Exactly. Just like booking a hotel, you basically booked that piece of gear from the fifth through the twelfth, you know, and you know, it's gonna arrive You, you know, if you're leaving on the fifth, make sure that you book it from the fourth through the twelfth because I don't know what time on the fifth Ups or Fedex is gonna drop it off. But, yeah. Just just book it like a hotel. When you get back, that's the day that you'll... Will be the end of your rental, and
then the date... And that has to be a a business day for Ups or Fedex too. So basically, a weekday. Basically use our common sense. Yeah. I use your common sense, and then, we include the shipping labels. So... When you go to return it, you're already gonna handle a shipping label, print it out, save your box. Chances are, if it's a high end optic, it's coming in a nice pe and hard case that's waterproof, dust proof.
You know, we'll protect the optic. If you're rolling them around on a 4 wheeler or Ut or something like that. Slide that back in the box when you're done, tape it up, put the new sticky label over the original label and just drop it off Ups or fedex and then get your receipt. So that you have proof that you did drop it all. And then, the rest is easy. Hey easy Peasy, buddy. So you guys are also doing rifles. Just give us a... Quick overview of
that too. We do. So if you wanna rent a rifle, probably the best thing to do is is give us a call and we'll kinda walk you through that process. But essentially, what happens is is you know, we kinda do a a front end background check on stuff. Set up your dates, and then we'll ship it to an F nfl in your area or your state, you know, you can pretty... We've got a list of them. We can help you find 1. If you're not aware of the local gun gunshot or whatever, But, or we can
send it to where you're hunting to. If you're living Say Colorado, but you're going to New Mexico, you know, we can ship it somewhere close to your outfit or you can pick it up when you get there. So you don't have to worry about. Hauling on an airplane and doing all that kind of stuff, and you can ship it directly back to us because we have an F nfl, Nice. Nice. Okay. Bose. Are you running bows? No. We're not renting bows, but bought. But I heard a rumor. Tell now.
I am a h dealer. So we have a rent outdoor gear has a Hawaii dealership. We're also carried easton arrows. So you can buy a new h from us. We may even have a used 1 on the shelf for 2, but we can... Take care of you there set up with the new bow, and, you know, I used to design them. So I I was... Gonna say, tell everybody while Dick Toy. Yeah. I I really couldn't pick anybody else. Right? I mean, certainly not but a lot of my
early years. But my career into designing and H Bows, still have a a lot of tremendous relationships there with with H, and So that's that's gonna be the brand that we're gonna hang our ad on for right now. A solid, man. So... And so you got a Pro shop, on site now and people coming in. They're both set up with you and everything. Full service Yep. And we're we're in the vista village and boise. If... If there's local guys that are listening, and you can stop in and see us give us a call.
I don't have the pros shop, open full... Time right now because I still have a full time job, and I'm looking for the right guy to run it, but we can make an appointment meeting there, go through some stuff. I can fit you time get you y'all all set up, and then, you know, we'll get it get it tuned and get you off on the right foot. We've got... We've got some other really good brands in there, get option archer for sites and quiver, easton arrows. So there there's a number of
other ones that that we carry. But Most of guys, I try to set up with the, you know, an archer package that is exactly like what I use. So. That's kind of the... Kind of the deal. And you said you're looking for for the right guy. It takes the right guy to run a pro shop. So anybody anybody out there listening, Darren Germ man, but I know that he would demand excellent see.
Well, I'd be I'd be more than happy to spend some time teach teaching somebody too, but, you know, obviously, they're gonna need to be a higher end. Archer tree guy, you know, from the start, and then I can teach him the rest. Yeah. But I'd love to love to entertain anybody in the in the area that is can definitely reach out to me to rock slide or through our website at ren outdoor gear dot com. Alright, buddy. Well, good to have you on. Everybody, if you, you just Google rent outdoor
gear or jump on rock slide. Just see his ad flash and it's on our gear forum on the main forum page, get a hold of Darren. He can take care of you. And and like we said at the beginning, Dave Ramsey Endorse is renting, especially for big ticket items, it makes a lot of sense and with Darren program have being able to rent and then turn around and buy it if you like it. Man. That's a low risk way to get into a high end piece of gear. Yep. Absolutely. Alright, buddy. Hey, man. Good to talk to
you. You let me know if you need something. Okay? Likewise Robbie. Appreciate it, man. That. It's time to stop dread application season. Streamline your process and find better opportunities with the help of On x hunt research tools. On x is application season tools set is filled with the data and analysis you need to build a better application plan in 20 24. This tool will help you navigate applications and give you detailed draws, tag trends, and harvest statistics.
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membership. Okay. That was Darren Cooper, my buddy. As I mentioned in there, he used to be the editor at Rocks slide out the job I have now along with other things. And there a good writer too. If you jump on our homepage and look up the trick pin was an article he wrote. I can't even remember the premises of it, but it's, having less pins on your on your bow site and using 1 pin to shoot multiple
yard just... It was a good article. The reason I I bring it up is because it's, like, the number 2 or 3 most red article ever on Rock slide, written by Darren Cooper himself. He did another review too is on a vanguard. Spotter. This is back in, like, 2013 14. Had even hardly heard Vanguard. I think I had 1 of their tripod pods. And, they sent us a spotter to try we sent it over to Darren. And he was doing a lot of our optics reviews then. And he was just shocked at what a
good spotter it was. And, he ended up sending it to me because we were doing a rock like contest of some sort. We've always done these challenges in contests and everything. And, he sent it to me because I was gonna ship to the to the winner after the contest. And so I got to look through it too. And man, there was a a lot of performance in that scope. I think it was an endeavor, Vanguard endeavor
Vanguard is is an advertiser now. And, I mostly just paid attention to their tripod pods, but don't ever overlook those guys for for glass. I remember I. They only... Let's think about that try... That spotter it was a little bit heavy. But, yeah, near alpha glass performance. I remember in the article there and it was compared to a swear a sw 65 at the time. And he couldn't find a difference. And I just remember he was, like, you're gonna burn me. I'm gonna get on my flame suit, but but this
spotter is awesome. So anyways, fun stuff on rock slide, let's jump into Hunt Big The today. We're not reading from my book, we're gonna read from somebody else's here in a minute. But before we get to that, just a few things I've been thinking about the last couple weeks as I've been scouting, and just things I thought I'd share with you. Scouting low density,
deer areas. Now a lot of the places I go right now are formerly high density gear areas and they're just with these winters that we've had since 2016, they're low dear density areas, But this applies to places that just don't have very many deer. They just require more time. You gotta you gotta cover more country. You're you're gonna get sku a lot. It's just hard not to get discouraged. But I talked about tracking a few weeks
ago. If you're seeing tracks and you're seeing sign, you know, maybe I'm scout in a a big mountain out in the middle of the desert, and You know, it goes up to 8 or 9000 feet. You know what and I'm driving in, and I'm seeing does in the headlights and everything. I pay attention to all that stuff where there's where there's dough, there's bucks. And, you know, You always hear me talking about fawn on here. I get excited when I see fonts because though those are all
indications that the deer hurt is function. So unless the herd just getting, you know, way over hunted, too many roads, you know, whatever. I I know there's always gonna be a good buck around. It's just hard, when you're not seeing a lot of deer, you just gotta put in the time and just know that it could turn on a dime. You could just be in the right place 1 morning looking at a different hillside from a different angle.
This morning, there was cloud cover. It seemed like the deer were out a little longer than they have been this big heat wave just broke. Just little things like that All sudden, there they are. But keep keep that in mind. It just takes more time. And the the good thing I can tell you about low deer density areas is it's easy to move on. And what I mean by that is if I'm somewhere where I'm seeing a lot of deer it's it's it's hard to move on because
you think you're missing some. You know, like, oh there's some bucks over there And, there's a buck down there. And, you know, after a while, you're kinda looking at the same bucks and You think you've seen them all, but it it's just a little bit harder to leave where, you know, if I've glass to spot all morning and haven't seen anything. It's, you know, maybe a glass an hour.
I know it's still cool enough on the northwest sides of the mountains that if I hurry up and change angles get to a different place, I have another chance to fight some dare. It's easier to move on when I'm not seeing Dare is what I'm saying. You pursue them. You cherish them. And now it's time to protect them. This is the Mule foundation. Our mission is the conservation of Mule Black tailed deer in their hap, the heart and soul of the west.
Join the herd today and help us preserve the legacy of these majestic creep teachers for generations to come. Your membership supports essential conservation projects, research initiatives and educational programs that secure a future from Mule deer and black tailed deer, our deer, our heritage, our programs our responsibility. Don't just witness their journey, be a part of it. Join the herd our Together, we can make a difference. Visit mule dot org today.
Their thing too is remember, and this doesn't matter if it's load your densities cities or not. But when the the bucks are are batch up now. Almost all the books I'm seeing are, you know, in groups of 3 Man Saw group of bucks in there day like 9 bucks. And that was in an area that hasn't got hits quite so hard with the winter. But the... They're all batch up now. So what happens if you think about it when...
When you're scouting bachelor herd of bucks is there's gonna be a lot of empty country because all the books are together. Compared to, like, say, October when they break up. And you know, you go into this straw, okay, There's a 2 point of 3 point there. You know, you move up on this little Mesa. Oh, there's a buck right over there. You know, they're just more spread out where you can go to that same place now. And it's like, man, there's no deer. I'm
not, see in any bucks. Why am I not seeing any bucks? And then all of a sudden, you look in the right draw and there's 11 of them. So you gotta remember there can be a lot of con free without deer and it when they're batch up like this. Let's see. 1 1 place I was scout yesterday. I mentioned that, free motorbike ride. 15 miles back in on a motorbike. Yeah. You could get a truck in there, but, just beat it at death, especially. I I after a 3 quarter tank truck, I pull horse.
So I I can't run a a light duty pickup that rides nice. I meant being all you guys with Toyota Tacoma. Was a ford f 1 fifties But anyways, it's 15 miles back in Rough Mountain Road. But once you get up on top, it's big flat, Mace. Yeah you see a lot of this in, you know, Southern Utah, Colorado, but various other places too. They're just more numerous in in on the Colorado plateau. But what I've learned about flat top mountains. If there's feed on top of them, Good deer feed.
The deer will be up there, but they feel really vulnerable in that flat stuff. Like, you're only gonna catch them out there, you know, till about sunrise, and then they're gonna be moving to the edges. And I didn't use to understand that. And so I remember I had a a tag in Southern Utah. Oh, this is back in the nineties. It a good unit. And it was just 1 great, big, flat top mountain with breaks off of each side of it. And I was hunting in early October.
And I I get get up on the mountain, There's all this deer sign and everything, but it was all old. And I was only seeing, like, young bucks and nose up on top. And it took me a couple of days to figure out they were they were just off the edges, just down in these draws. And even though I didn't end up killing a buck. I got on a really good buck that hunter remember I was I stayed
the whole rifle season. It was, like, 8 days long, and got into a, like, a 30, and he was living off off the side of of a big flat mesa down down in these draws. And I just didn't get a shot at him. I got a good look at him, but he was gone before I shoot. But I remember thinking why I wasted, like, 3 or 4 days hunting on top. And and and the deer, you know, the respectable deer had just moved off the top. But in the summertime,
you can catch them up there. But if you don't see them, you know, even if it's, like 20 minutes after sunrise, they've just moved off the top or you just gotta move further down the mountain, further down the Mason and look at different draws and everything. They they feel really vulnerable out there is my point. But in in the summer when the feed is green and they're in velvet.
They love those big flat top mountains. I have seen that in virtually, every Western state that I've on it in on these big flat top mountains and Mesa and everything. So so don't don't ignore them. If you're not finding deer, just just start looking around the. And again, they don't dive off a thousand feet off with these things, At least not this time here. You know, they're usually within a hundred yards at the top, I find.
1 of the thing is things if it's gentle country though, so, like, let's just say it's... And this could apply at any mountain. But let's just say it's be flat top mountain, and it's just kinda rolling on top. And then it's... It it doesn't really break into the edges It's just the edges rounded. And it doesn't really get into any cliff or... You know, ribbon cliffs or in rock or anything. Might be a few bucks around there, but I displace I was I was going on
the motor motorbike. That's what I found. About it in in a couple of mornings is the the bucks, they just like the rev country. And and the they they are up on top during the night and right at the first first light of the morning, but, they're moving off into this rough country. But if it was just smooth off of these rims, dose fawn or or nothing. But if if it was a little bit rocky a little bit cliff, then that seemed to be where I was seeing in the bucks.
So keep that in mind. There's there's your mule scout and tips. I mentioned book review. I've done a ton of book reviews on rock slide. On on 1 I used out the blog, and that the blog has turned into the to the podcast. So I I... I'm a big reader. Well, I'm a big meal reader put it that way. I don't I don't read a bunch of other books. But reading just... It engages your brain. I think differently than Youtube or Instagram or podcast podcasts or anything. And I don't know. 6 with me better.
It's probably why I write books too. But, a book that I had read a long time ago. This is kind of the 1 that got everybody started on Bowl hunting mule air was dwight shoes, hunting open country mule air. I read that I think it was about 90, 91 right around in there. And by 93, I was bo. Mule air. I mean, it... It's the book that lit my fire. And, I borrowed it from a friend, and I had it for a long time. I remember he was always bugging to get it back. And, you know, there was no Amazon
then. You didn't just go order a book. You know, your books were cherished. And I finally give it back to him. Nick, if you're out there, you know what I'm talking about. Sorry, man. That's what you get for Linda and Book. But anyways, that book was the... I read articles and stuff before that on Ge bo Hunting mule, but they were just articles. This was an entire book on
stocking mule. Not necessarily big mule there. Although there are some in there, but the whole art and science of stocking Mule is really what was. And and for years in my mind, I just only thought of that book as as an archer book. If you'd had asked me the title of it a couple weeks ago, I would've have said, oh, Archer hunting open country mule, but that's not what
it's called. It's haunting open country mule there and I forgotten you know, it basically covers everything about about glass and finding deer in the open country and stalking them, But it's heavily archer because Dwight shoe was was 1... Really 1 of our best owners are our best writers that are out there. For you guys that are too young knowing him. We lost him in 2019 to cancer, he was good buddies with a lot of a lot of the Who's who in the Bo hunting world. But
but do dwight... He was from Oregon, just to dyed in the louisville bowl hundred down to Earth guy, just just a joy to read a good writer, just a real practical writer, kind of a dry sense humor. I always found very entertaining. But, when Nick lent me that book, you know, prior to that, it was like, yeah, you might be able to get a deer with a bow, but it it... You know,
it you're you're gonna ambush him. Somebody's gonna push him to you, you know, you're gonna you're gonna see a buck out on a little flat and 5 year buddies are gonna surround even kinda close in on. Maybe somebody will get a shot. That's how we we we thought about hunting the older air. And god forbid riding around in the back of the truck, you know, jumping off tailgate, and fling in arrows it those, You know? I mean that that was...
That was Bow hunting meal. But when I read this book, that was the first time I really thought, wow, you could do this. You could actually... Kill a buck with a bow and even a big buck. And so I filed that away in my mind over the years, and I've tried many of the things that were in there. I've killed 3 big meal with my bow, all of them related to tactics that I learned in here. But I hadn't read the book and what, like 30 years.
And I saw it on Amazon a couple months ago, and I thought, you know, I'm taking my kids to... I had my twins graduate this year. They're seniors, and my wife and I took them to Mexico. And I thought, you, I'm gonna be down there for a week. I'm gonna read so I got that book, and I took it with me. This 1 and 1 other 1. And I just kinda thought, I'll probably kinda skim over it I've read it before you know, look at the meat and potatoes of it, You know, just walk down memory
lane. Oh, no. No. No. No. I read the whole thing cover to cover. In like, 3 days. Loved it as soon as I got back into it or remembered what a good book it was. Now some of it's just nostalgia. It's just a walk back down memory lane of how they used to do things. And I'm talking about the equipment, the gear, the trucks, I mean, how they thought about mule deer, you know, some of that stuff's
pretty out outdated now. But when I got into the part that I'm gonna review today, basically, the the the the the planning of the stock, the stock, the shot, after the shot, that stuff is timeless. Absolutely timeless. And I hope you'll consider reading this book before our tree seasons. I am so glad that I did because, you know, all the stuff I learned in a 30 years ago, You know, you put that stuff in your brain, it gets mixed with other things over the years.
You know, it... You're not even really sure what you learned. You just know what's in there. You don't know who it came from. You know, except other bow hunters too. But 1 once I got back in here, I was like, oh, this is such classic bow hunting, And even though a lot of the gear and everything like that. I mean, you'll laugh looking at their bows and Larry D Jones. Is in the book too, big time Bow hunter. He's still with us. He was, wanted to dwight good friends. He just did a Bow hunt.
With the guy at Stalker stick both South Cox. Go watch that film on Youtube. It came out like 4 or 5 years ago. I never for whatever reason. I missed it. I just... I knew it was out there I thinking. And I gotta watch it. While I watched it while I was in Mexico because I had time, and all it was good. So it was great See Larry Jones. He was an open country mule dear guy. That's how him It got together. And you know, South has kinda picked that stuff up too.
So anyways, I'm kinda going on and on, but The this book is what spawned all that. And it's it's still timeless, and I think it it's worth your read. So I'm gonna give you some of the high points from from the book. Once you get into... About page fifth, is where you get into the stuff that's timeless. You know, before that, it's you know, it's a lot of history and and, you know, how how he got into bo hunting, all his failures and the you know, all all the all the all the things that are,
like I said just kinda nostalgic. But once you get to about page 50, get into the chapter called spotting. And, you know, not now we would probably call that chapter glass. But, you know, spotting... It... That was kind of revolutionary back then. Were around, but they were pretty much military guys had bin. You know, a few guys had a spotting scope. They're just... Was not mainstream. I mean, I remember my dad and locals uncles have bin, but they weren't very good. They they didn't
even carry them anywhere on their necks. They were, like, in the truck, You know, we'd stop and ma'am everybody would share the and, you know, looking off the point and stuff like that, where 1... I got into this chapter, you know, 30 years ago. It it's really the first time besides maybe Kurt Garner book. But I I think Dwight shoe went into stocking and spotting even more than Curt Darn head. It was the first time it was, like, wow, this is a this is a whole
world. This is a whole technique here with many, many layers. And so he starred in that chapter, called spotting. And, yeah know, Guy again, some of it's gonna be bay basic, but he talks about... What makes a good glass is knowing where to glass. And I always forget this. We always think of a good glass, a guy with, you know, awesome. Peeps. Awesome eyesight. You know, You could see see a nat on a on an ant at a mile. You know, that's what we
think is a good glass. And while that certainly helps. That's not the only thing that makes a good glass. A good glass is knowing where to look. Okay? So I was getting re record this podcast today. I pulled up a video from the weekend that I shot of, a really... Buck bedding area on a northwest slope or I just... Even though Didn't see any bucks there. I could see beds under, in the shade. I I just... And it's a brand new place. I've never been there
before. First time, Ever laid glass on that hillside, and I was like, oh, man, that is so buck right there. I guarantee if I spend a few days there. I'll see see bucks betting there. Well, that's kinda what he he starts talking about in this book is knowing where to look is half the game. And and that's why I don't always agree with just g when you're glass because grit assumes that all deer country is equal. And it's not. Now, you know, maybe you found a particular
hillside. This got, you know, bedding cover all over it in feeding areas, all over it. Okay. Yeah, that that would make sense to grid. And I'm not saying I never grid, But I don't just go out and grid. I go out and look for features and places that that attract books. And so that video I was talking about. It's on my Instagram page. I didn't put it on the rock slide page. I put it on the Instagram Robbie getting a instagram page because Rock lite was
busy today. We had some else going on on there. And so you'll see it should be what July fifteenth, I think is the date. And so be a good glass is finding places like that. Just just being able to look at places like that. Know that, hey, I got this big giant mountains outside. And, yeah, I should look at the whole thing, but I really need to pay particular attention. Into that place, especially as the sun comes around the mountain shadows changed or get up and
move stuff like that. So do dwight it goes into that in in that spotting chapter. He also goes into what's called the pocket principal. The pocket principle, this is something that III was doing for years and not really realizing it, and I kinda grown as a deer hunter. And then when I would talk to guys that weren't thinking this way, I realized that... Yeah. I kinda use think that way too. This is what I'm talking. Mule deer typically live in
pockets. K? Talked about low density deer areas earlier in this episode. That's what makes it frustrating is there's not very many u deer, and so there can be a whole bunch of pockets that might look bucky, but they don't heart... There's not enough deer to fill them all. K? But the principle of pockets is still the same even in high density deer areas. Deer seek out smaller areas. In the... In in their habitat then say Elk.
Okay? Deer are real picky about where they wanna go and when Say, dear, I should I should really focus on Buck. I mean, deer in general, but definitely Bucks talked about earlier, you know, the rough country, the the the broken country. And it's not all created equal. Because and and and deer know what country has the right thermals, the right the right feed or the right distance to feed, the the sun, especially early in the year like this is what is driving a lot of their behavior
because it... It's hot. And, you know, as soon as it comes up, they're they're trying to get away from it. They're they're basically vampires from from the middle of June on. And even though their their their hairs thin, they don't have their their their coats. They still don't like to be out in the
blazing and sun. So the sun is dictating wearing in the habitat that they're gonna And so this whole pocket principle is getting it through our heads that deer not gonna be evenly distributed across Land But I'm not trying to say Elk car either but it seems like Elk can be about anywhere. But deer left un disturb without a lot of pressure. Okay we'll we'll we'll seek out certain pockets.
And once you find those pockets, you're gonna you're gonna see way more gear, like, 5 to 10 times more dear than you do. Just randomly going across the landscape. And so always remember that 1. You're not seeing there. You just may not be in the right pocket in that pocket. Yeah. It could be a a big basin. It could be a little cool off the side of Mesa. It. It could be some, some some canyon that are just some side
canyon off of a main canyon. You know, but but when I said I grew as a deer hunter or what I meant was I started just looking for pockets rather than looking at all the deer country. And this just kind of occurred naturally. And that's why I said it kinda caught me off guard a little bit was that was like, yeah. Now III don't treat all deer country the same. I look at it, and I'm looking for the pockets. And and all the good deer hunters. I know they they do the
same thing. And others there's a bunch of you guys out there nod your heads right now. But but deer our pocket animals, and that's our job is is fine is finding those pockets. Then he goes into another chapter called before the stock. Okay? So he's got an entire chapter about things he goes through before he even starts the stock. And and that's what I meant. When I started reading this again, it was great to just get this all reorganized and my brain, how all this comes
together. You know, because a lot of times we just think spot stock. And in Dwight world, it's like, no. There's a whole bunch of steps in between spot and stock. Alright? And so he calls it before the stock, talks about looking for... Bed bucks versus feeding bucks. And when he's gonna plant an ambush, when he's gonna wait for a buck to stand? What type of country? He's expecting to catch a bed buck in? What kind of country might lend itself better to hunting funnels,
and, you know, and things like that. And and, you know, and he goes through through basic decisions that he makes before before he even takes off after the buck. And how he plans the stock and so funny in here because, you know, we all have smartphones now. And we used to all... All of us used to carry little notebooks, little tiny notebooks kinda that would go in like an engineer's pocket. And we would draw pictures of what the hillside look like. And I had been doing that for years before
I got a smartphone. And and that's where I got it from was in here. He talks about. How about planning your stock and just... How hard it is to recognize terrain once your perspective changes. Once you get over there or, you know, you make a... You make a half a loop and you start looking back down in the january. He thought he was and everything looks different. He talk he talks about that, you know, using your compass. Which is still very smart even with a smartphone. The
the technology that's in the bin. I'm thinking Sw asking. Because so that's what I shoot, but the the ta, the tracking assistant, but it's in the... I know base has it. Oh, on forgive. You probably do too, and I just haven't learned it, but you can drop thin and go straight to it. That stuff is, you, everything dwight talking about on steroids, but it's still good to read through that
process. And 1 other thing. And and and I know to do this, but I I don't always think about it as part of planning the stock is he calls spot the spoilers. Spotting the spoilers means what remembering all the deer you've seen through the morning, because, you know, you'll see Deer throughout the morning as you're watching these bucks, and you then... Once you get in the stock you kinda forget about them No. No. You gotta pay attention to them.
When you plan your stock out, blast your whole stock out, make sure there's no deer out, you know, if they're up feeding, that's... They're easy to catch if they're bed, it's gonna be harder, but A a lot of times if you can just get a straight shot at a buck. I don't care if he's 9 years old. If you could get us straight shot at a buck, and there's no spoilers in there and buy a straight shot, I mean, stock. If you can get a stock at him, and not have to lose sight of him.
Too much, and there's no other deer between you and them. There's not a lot that can go wrong. Now, I'm not telling you're gonna get the dare. But they're... You're probably gonna get within range of that deer. And it was good to be reminded about, you know, all the things that can go go wrong on there. And then he breaks into the next chapter. He breaks the stock down even more. He got before the stock. And then you've got closing in.
Alright? So that's kind of a subset of the word stock and and he talks about all the things that can happen when you're closing in. 1 of the big ones, relocating a buck. And I think that, like, obviously, the gold standard is to spot a buck, keep your eyes on him and stalk right in. Well, that hardly ever happens. You, you almost always have to, you know, get behind something, you know, go behind the red circle around, you know, that's that's just kind of accepted in mule deer hunting. But in...
We we kind of forget that we gotta have the skill to relocate a buck. We we need to expect that we're gonna have to relocate about. That's what I'm trying to say. That's what came out of is reading where sometimes like, be lose track of the buck on the stock and and we think, oh, just my luck. Yeah always happens to me. No. That's normal. Very rarely do they stay in exactly the same bed? You know, even if they move 15 yards, it can be really hard to
relocate. But even if they stay in the same bed because your perspective all changes, that, you've gotta continually relocate that buck, and he talks about that on on closing in, how he just expects that. You know, that... That's the norm that you're gonna... Gonna lose track of the buck, and then you're just gonna have to find him again and expect it. And then he goes into this this whole thing. It's called the philosophy of getting close.
And it's it's it's too long to go into it I almost have to read it word for word to capture it. But he believes he can get close to deer and I I think that's what stuck out to me as young man when I read this because, you know, I grew up in a family where I I just said it, you know, getting a deer with a boat. That was just a random happening in the universe, You know? You just happened to... I to get a shot at
a buck and you got. And there wasn't a not not a lot you could do on purpose to kill a deer on purpose with a bow. And and and Dwight does not believe that. He believes that you can get close to most dear and by extension to most bucks. And that seemed cocky when I read that back then. But even though I haven't killed a bunch of pig meal with my bow, I believe him, you can. If I don't think that you're... If you... I think if you do it right, you're gonna have probably 30 percent
of your stocks will be successful. I'm just throwing a random number out there, but I'm just thinking of the last 4 or 5 deer that I've stocked, it might even be higher than that. It might even be, like 50 percent. Now I'm not just saying that if you see a deer, you got a 50 percent chance of getting on him. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying if if you do all these things he's talking about. And, you you be patient, but not too patient, You gotta be aggressive.
At some point. You gotta you gotta go. You do all that stuff. Right? I think you'll be surprised. At how often you're gonna get within range of them. And this book was the first 1 that really taught me that. And, you know, jumping in head 30 years. Yep. IIII believe you you you play your cards right. You're you're gonna get closer to more of them than you think, but we'll talk about it in a minute. It's not all about getting close to them. Has I can attest. K. Ben is the next chapter is actually
the stock. Okay? So he's got all what what the 2 or 3 chapters prior to even the stock. You know, where remote... Most of us just jump right into the stock. And he breaks it down by what you're trying to overcome. The the the the bucks, sets of smile, and he's talking about scent control with the person and do dwight is not into any hoc poc scent control thing. He's he's of the school. If you get down. Yeah you you put a here down Window you, they're gonna smell
you. But he's he's all about staying clean, you know, clean clothes, stuff like that. That's gonna help. That's gonna give you more time Randy Ol took that to the next level. He was always staying really clean, and he always said the same thing. Yeah. They're gonna smell you. But, you know, sent is, these are my words here. Sent is a concentration game as in. How much scent is concentrated in that area. The higher that that is, the the better chance they have of
smelling you. So if you can keep the concentration of cent low, it buys you more time. Sometimes you only need another 5 seconds, and and and that's the whole idea of of smell. So do dwight I talks about that in there too? I I got a credit him. He was right. The first 1 that really cut into that. Talks about overcoming their site. They're hearing. Talks about, using their curiosity against them. And I think when you get real old bucks, they're not very curious. However,
they're a little bit. Curious, and he talks about that in there too. But definitely with the younger bucks and everything he talks about using their curiosity against them. He also talks about And when I first read it, I thought, I gotta think about this. But that on stocks, when he's alerted a big buck, but he hasn't put him on high alert, and then he just gets quiet and holds perfectly still, and then the buck goes back to just be in a buck. He calls it forgetting about you. He he
says, hey, they just forgot about you. And when I read that again, even this the second time. I'm like, wait a minute, They don't forget about you. But then So I thought it through for a minute. I thought, okay. I know what he's talking about. No. If you sp them and they see and know, they do not forget about you. Okay? If they smell you, they do not forget about you. But what he's talking about is you're you're gonna make some noise on your stock.
And if you're if if you're if you're frequency of noise and I don't I'm not talking volume here. The the amount of time between noises that is is long enough. The bucks will forget about you is is what he's talking about. So what he means? Is, like, say you you're steak along and you slide your even if you're in stocking. Feet accidentally. Slide your foot across the ground it grinds a gravel just a little bit. And I'll you that bucks head come up and as ears go go
90 degrees. Looking all over the place. A hundred and 80 degrees, You know, like they do. But you hold still and you give him a couple minutes, and then he settles back down. Dwight right. He is forgetting about you. Because if he truly thought that was a threat, he would not forget about it. He is just not associating in with danger. He's heard it. He listened for a while. It's stayed quiet, so he forgets about So I I don't know if that's a revolution revolutionary I
concept to you guys. But when I read that again. I I thought, yeah. Yeah. I gotta remember that on my next stock, give him time to forget about you. K? The last part of the stock is putting it all together, and this is where he's talking about. You're getting ready for the shot and everything. And and then it goes into the next chapter, the shot. And that's what I mean. This is a work of art. He he broke this down to the very basic elements of this. And this helped me. You know, even as a 55
year old bow. This helped me because, you know, I'm Add. I'm always trying to push things, and, you know, make things happen. Sometimes that'll work for you. But in in honey big meal with a bow, you gotta be careful with that stuff. And so when he gets into the shot. And this is where I have fallen apart. Alright? So you know I've killed 3 big meal with my bow, killed 3 in a row with my bow. And then the last 3
that we're all just as big. You know, these are all bucks, 1 90 and north of or junky wide bucks, you know, something going for, big bucks, then I missed the last 3. Wounded 1 of them. He survived then, because we saw him again during prophecies season and Travis Swaps got a shot, at. That's in the last chapter of my book, the stories. And then the buck that I... That I missed in 20 22. That that was a good 28 to 30 inch deer non typical you know, had him at 25 yards. He
got up. He turned. He showed me a shoulder but I had a branch. Right? In front of me. And then he turned and he walked away and he walked out to 38 yards. And I just didn't let him quarter enough. He he turned and he saw me draw, and that just put me on high alert, but that was my mistake. He wasn't on high alert. He just saw something back there. About a waited just a little bit longer. I would had a lot better angle to shoot at him, and I wouldn't
have missed. And And then let's say there's another 1 in there. Oh, my 2014 book, 1 90, Gross buck that I missed at, 48 yards use the wrong pin. What an amateur move put it my 20 yard pin on his withers. Meant to put my 40 yard pen on his withers. But I got all jacked up. Another buck had spooked and this buck went on high alert, but he wasn't looking at me. I still had plenty of time. So what my whole point was is I've missed those 3 big bucks. And those are all my fault.
Nothing to do with equipment. That's just me crap in the bed. And all these things that he's talking about, Just reading him again. Just help kinda slow me back down. But this this chapter here called the shot. He goes through defining the shot, and the difference between getting a shot and getting a good shot. And On 2 of those books I just talked about, I didn't give my... I got a shot, but I didn't take the time to get a good shot. And he breaks that down over pages.
And the cool thing about Dwight is he interviewed a lot of bow hunters when he wrote this book. So it's not just him. He's he's talking about. This guy lives in Oregon. This is how he does it. This guy's killed 3 record book bucks. This is how he does and interviewed them all. And so so remember, there's a difference between getting a shot and getting a good shot. And I think that's that's where I gotta a slow in my mind is sometimes, I'm just... I just gotta get shot.
Got Got get a shot. That's what it's all. No. No No. No. We we just gotta get 1 good shot. That... That's all we need. And then let's see. Talked about getting the shot, making the shot 2 totally different things. So getting the shot, making the shot. Talks about practicing under pressure, the different kind of field practice. It's funny. 3D3D is term is not even mentioned in here, the word 3 d. This is clear back when we're were just shooting target butts. And... But but he talks about how
shooting and competition can really help you. The whole concept of picking a spot, all my bows, if you look somewhere in my bows, There'll be a little piece of tape that says pick a spot. Because, I'm supposed to read it before I shoot and and and I don't think I have been. But but that concept, I first heard him start talking about that about. Don't just aim at the deer. You gotta pick a spot.
You've Heard mentioned being an outfit for over the years, and I've I've taken a lot of what I call self guided hunters, meaning, you know, because we operate on private land. I'll show guys the ranch, stay in touch with them each day. I used to give them Max. So now I give them On x. These are guys that wanna hunt on their own. K? But they do need a little bit of help. And a few years back, I had 4 guys out from
an Eastern state. Let's just say. I'm not picking on Eastern guys and all these were great guys, good bow hunters, but all the stuff they killed had bent at 20 25 yards because of where they lived. Well, then they come out here and all of sudden, they got Elk running and all over around them, you know, from 30 yards to 70 yards, and I think in, like, 3 days. Well, they did kill 1. They they hit 1, hit it in the neck and dropped it. So that... He even said that wasn't even
really on purpose. I just aimed at the elk. And then the other, 3LI think they'd missed 1, and then they'd hit 2, and didn't recover them. The Elk could've have even been fine the way these guys were shooting. And I didn't learn about this until about 2 days after it it all happened. And, you know, I just talked to him on the phone that night. As you have. We had a bad couple of days. He told me what was going on, and and, you know, I'm not wanting to judge anybody because I've made the
same mistakes. But I asked, are you guys I didn't ask him when I told him I said, I think you guys are just aiming at an elk. You're not aiming at a spot on the elk, and they were like, oh, you nailed, Buddy. You know, they get in front of us, and we just we just put the pin on the elk. And so we we talked to that through and said, hey, you know, you gotta pick a spot. They came back the next year, which would have been last year. They didn't wound any, and they killed
1 or 2. I can't remember now. Talk too many guys. But that that was the whole thing of picking a spot. Don't aim at the whole animal. And, of course, listening on a podcast. You're like, I would never do that. But believe me, there's the little part of your brain that once you get the the the the bow drawn and you hit your anchor point, there's a little part of your brain that's says, I've arrived. No. You have it. That's the critical seconds right there. And that's where... And I'm
I'm talking to Robbie Den. That's where we gotta take that extra time. Heard Randy owner talk about that on on a few, and it's just hard to get through my head. He's like, always take a couple extra seconds. I think is how I said, Just take a couple extra seconds. Do I have the right pin? Am I picking in the right spot? And you know, And may... I'm sure there's a whole bunch of bow owners on here that are that are way over that. You know, they're they're they're beyond that. They're not
having that problem anymore. But I I still think, you know, being an outfit and then live in my own body. There's a whole bunch of us that really need to work on that. Picking a spot, making the shot. Not just getting. He shot. He then goes into another chapter called after the shot, And that's a good 1 too. It has just a bunch of information in there about about what to expect after the shot, how deer react, when they're hit in in various places.
Blood trailing. He talks about the difference between a blood trader, which was Larry d Jones. He would stay with the blood. And then the rest, the other 70 percent of the hunting population, which does what? They grid. They lose the blood and then they grid. And Larry Jones, and my father, or or never that way. They were always like, no. You stay with the blood. You don't walk and the tracks, by the way, the blood and the tracks. You stay with those.
If you lose them, you still spend your time looking for them, not just venturing out. Like, well, I think he went that way. I think it went that way. That hardly ever works. You know, if you have a group of 10 guys, maybe. But do Dwight I talks about that And here, it was refreshing, even though I read it 30 years ago, I think I I kinda forgotten that that he said by and large, Larry finds way more animals
by sticking to the blood. And that's how it was with my dad my dad was a pair hunter, and a hundred with a lot of guys that that Bull hunted bears. My dad was always fine in the bears. Because he would stick with the blood. So he talks about after the shot, you know, pick picking places on the deer. He's got some, illustrations on where to hit him and basically looking at a picture of it right now. The little pocket behind the leg that we're all all top, but we're talking with the
legs straight up and down. And just an inch or 2 behind it and preferably the deer cor for just a little bit. About trailing And just a bunch of... He's he's got a bunch of what I call An anecdotes kind of many stories to back up his points in their So just full of it. And then the rest of the book, he gets into other methods, you know, ambush hunting and things like that, talks range finder were not invented then, or laser range finder.
It was the optical range finder and I actually had 1, where you, like, you you you turn the wheel and the image it's it's like a... When you focus a camera, when it comes into focus, you could tell the yard, but, honestly, it it always felt like it was plus or minus 7 yards. You know, they weren't that close. He talks about that in there and backpack hunting things like that, just just good classic dwight shoes stuff. So I really think unless you have just killed 5 of the last 5 big that
you pointed a bow at. I think it's worth your time to jump on Amazon. Fine. Hunting open country mule by Dwight shoe. Maybe you've got it on your shelf. Go read at least those chapters, but but you're you're wise to read the whole thing. I think it'll make you better pull. Okay, everybody. Hope that was helpful and have a great seller. Talk to you on next episode. With the help of sports men and women and concerned citizens we can defeat the hunting bands here in Colorado. Go to say the
hunt colorado dot com. Thanks for listening.