Speak to be Heard: David Pope

This is Risky Women Radio, a show that connects, celebrates and champions women in risk regulation and compliance. We’re here to share the insights on the biggest issues in our industry and hear inspiring journeys from our global members. Sign up to our newsletter at riskywomen.org. I’m Kimberley Cole, your Chief Risky Woman.

Welcome to Risky Women Radio. Today we have a special treat. We have our second only male voice to join us on Risky Women Radio. So today I welcome David Pope. We're sitting here in Hong Kong, and David is just fantastic. So let me tell you a little about him. He started at the BBC. He's since worked as an audio producer, studio director, and now is an executive voice coach, so no pressure on me to make sure that my voice is good.

Through the company he founded All Voice Talent. He brings 30 years of experience in recording studios to 1000s of business professionals, and he's worked globally from managing partners, lawyers, CEOs to business executives and TEDx speakers. His one on one coaching sessions, workshops and online courses focus on transforming voices, helping good speakers

become great speakers. And his workshops are CPD accredited by the law societies of Hong Kong, Singapore, New South Wales, Australia, and the Legal Affairs Department of the Government of Dubai. So quite a broad mix there. And we were lucky enough to have David do one of our rev up sessions last year, but I am really excited today to be able to talk through a few things that have come up that we hear from people time and time again. So welcome David.

Thank you so much, Kimberley. It's great to be here, and I'm honored to be part of this podcast. Thank you. I am thrilled to have you, and I believe we are recording on World Voice Day. Absolutely World Voice Day, where we focus on the beauty of voice. So it's absolutely perfect that we're meeting together on this day. Yeah, exactly. So today, our topic is Speak to be Heard. But I gave a few snippets of your career. I would love to hear a

bit more. So walk us through your sort of career journey and some of the highlights. Okay, I'll try and keep it brief. So I started quite some time ago in SoHo in London, and I was what they call a runner. So I was running around making teas and coffees, etc, etc, for a producer and a director who then went off to Hollywood. So I was working on pop videos for people like, Aha, Dire Straits,

Wham. Pre George Michael so that kind of gives away my age. But then after that, I really decided I wanted to do something a little bit more than just running around Soho. So I applied and got a job at the BBC, and that's where my love of voice began. So I trained as an assistant film editor, and I worked on feature films and documentaries. Then I came to Hong Kong to visit a friend, and 31 years later, I am still here.

I didn't give up on the voice stuff, so my career began here, as well as you very kindly read out, I became a studio director and an audio producer. I've also done a lot of voice over work myself. So I think in terms of, you know, the career journey, where are we now? Well, I became an executive voice coach because people were contacting me, and they were saying things like, I work in corporate communications, I'm in banking,

I'm in legal, I'm terrified of public speaking. My boss has told me that unless I up my communication skills, I won't be promoted. I'm being looked at probably for promotion up to the C suite, but I feel that I need to do more with my voice and with my presence. Is this something that you can help me with? And what I realized actually, well, I counted the other day, I've spent around 35,000 hours sitting in

recording studios telling people what to do, basically. So I figured, you know, I can do this because I can understand about the voice. And so I worked with my writer, and we put together some voice and presence training courses, some workshops, which, of course I did for you, it was last year, wasn't it? Yeah, last year. And also one on one coaching, which is the thing I really love, because that really drills down on people's voices. So it's been a wonderful journey, and long may it continue.

Amazing. And we like to sort of ask people this one, so what are the biggest risks that you think you've taken in your career, and did they pay off? Okay, so the two biggest risks I would say, I wouldn't say so much as risk, what I would actually say is, what I did was I run my own business. I listened to the market. There are two specific things. The one thing that I've already shared was because I was on a trajectory where I was producing

and directing for lots of clients in TV and broadcast. But it was because these people were calling me and saying, Hey, can you help me? That was one of the risks that I took, because I decided that this is something actually that I could do. I had the background, I'd had the training, I put in the years of

graft. So that was the first thing. But the second thing was actually over COVID, because what happened was, just as everything was kicking off, I found myself trapped in Singapore, and when I was there, basically I could have gone two ways. I could have had a pity party and just sat there and thought, Okay, what am I going to do? Everything is dreadful. I'd gone down there to do in-person workshops and

coaching, and everything got canceled. So I thought, I can either sit there and sulk, or I can actually do the thing that people have been telling me for ages that I should be doing, which is to try and ramp up my business and be able to actually create online videos. So that's what I did. So I created three online video courses, which fast forward to now, they're best sellers. They've been bought by Fortune 500 global law firms, individuals from all around the world. So that was a risk that I

took, and it paid off. So you know what I've done is I've created a third income stream now to my business, which is great. That's always interesting when you have to think of another way of approaching things. Absolutely, absolutely.

That's why I always like that question, because I think people always give you interesting answers that you can apply to other things. So very good and so here we are on a podcast. I absolutely love podcasts. I listen to a lot of them, but a lot of people often tell me they can't stand listening to the sound of their own voice, so when they hear a recording of their own voice, so how do you talk to people around changing that relationship with your own voice?

Okay, so first of all, the reason that we don't like the sound of our voice on a recording, it's about the science of the voice, because the voice that we hear when we're speaking is not the voice that other people hear. So

voices are like sound waves. So when somebody speaks like I am now, the voice comes across, goes into your ears, but when I speak, what I'm hearing is not only the sound that's coming into my ears, but I'm actually feeling the vibration, the vibration that comes up through my stomach area, through my chest, up into my resonance chamber. So I run workshops, I will say to people, okay, put your hand up if you like the

sound of your voice when you hear it on a recording. And I can guarantee that probably, over the years I've been doing this, probably 2% of people put their hand up. So what it is, it's because we think that our voice is deeper and more resonant than it actually is. So when we hear ourselves on

recording, we get a little bit of a surprise. So that idea of changing our relationship with our voices the most important thing, and this is what I do constantly, my whole modus operandi working with people on one on one is to get them to record their voice. You have to become comfortable with how you sound. So I give people a safe space to be able to really do a deep dive on how they sound. And this is where the confidence

comes from as well. So I mean in terms of the voice, the voice really begins from the base chakra, and it goes all the way up through to our head. So there's such a relationship with everything. It's about how we feel inside. It's about confidence. It's about the physiology. Obviously, it's about the breathing. And once people understand all of this and they can really get a sense of how they're sounding. Bam. It really makes a change. The magic happens.

I still remember a lot of those breathing exercises that we did. Now you mentioned there, how do we sort of move from that doubt to confidence? So you're obviously working with a lot of leaders. I think there is still, you know, a lot of leaders who would say, I wish I'd learned how to use my voice better. How do I you know, it is a real sign off of gravitas, how you use your voice. So how do you see people that you're working with?

How do they move through that doubt to confidence? And what are some of those areas that you work with them on? Okay, so certainly, with the C suite that I'm working with so many of the people that come to me, first of all, they've done presentation skills training, they've done media training, they've done pitch training. I'm a little bit niche, because what I do is, as I mentioned, you know, in terms of my whole process it's about going much, much deeper. So. What I will do

is in terms of that going from doubt to confidence. Some people, they just have a belief that they sound a particular way. And what I do is, by recording the voice and playing it back, I give them the data. So I start from the basis of, this is the data, this is what you sound like. And then I say, Okay, you sound like this. So people will be making judgments about all of our voices. We do this all the time. Are there any areas that you feel that you might want to improve? And this

is where we sort of begin, because stuff will come up. It will be around the pitch. It will be around maybe, you know, people will say, Oh, I'm a really boring speaker, right? Well, for me, I don't understand that word boring. What I'm talking about is monotone. Okay, so it's monotone. You're just a monotone speaker. So we work on making you engaging by adding more intonation. So pacing, pacing is another one when people get nervous. Naturally, two things happen, the pitch of

our voice goes up, and secondly, the pacing increases. So I'm getting people to understand how, in those situations, and you mentioned the breathing, right? We can try and tap into the breathing. We ground ourselves, we give ourselves that confidence through all of these practical exercises. So it's not me just standing there saying, I think you should do this. I think you should do that. I say, okay, record. We're going to play it back. Let's analyze it. Let's do it one more

time. Give me feedback. How did you feel? And then it builds and it builds and it builds. So I'm really empowering people to change their own voices, and that is the thing that I love, and that's what really keeps me coming back.

interesting, really interesting. And I guess how you can deliver really impactful communication is what everyone's aiming for. And I think that's why I loved this from the Risky Women perspective, because, you know, often you're trying to deliver what can be a very important but complex and often maybe misunderstood topic, around compliance, around risk issues, etc. So what techniques, or is there evidence on which techniques that you can use to create a really powerful and

lasting impression? So really making that impact. So you mentioned gravitas. So this is one of the things that I like to hone in on. And a lot of people think that gravitas is having this sort of strong, you know, very powerful voice. It's absolutely not, I want to absolutely stress, it's about authenticity. So the first thing that I'm doing is when I'm working with people, and again, coming back to the recording and being able to get people to understand how they sound, self

awareness. So for me, gravitas is about two things. It's about having passion for what you're delivering, but keeping it grounded as well, in terms of the authority. So you mentioned, you know, with sort of finance, with tech, with legal, sometimes it's quite what's the word that I can use? It's not flowery, right? It's quite technical. It's quite strong, it's quite complex. So people need to be able to understand how they can

just inject a little bit more, let's say, oomph into it. And so what I'm getting people to understand is trying to get that balance, that balance of authority in the voice, but also energy in the way that they deliver the confidence and also the warmth. Basically, are you an engaging speaker, and do people want to listen more to what you're saying. So in terms of the evidence, the evidence, what I'm doing is I'm doing very, very practical exercises. So you mentioned breath. So one

of the things that we do is we tap into the breath. Now, according to the American Lung Association, we only use 30 to 35% of our full lung capacity. So if we want to have a voice which is dynamic, it's engaging, it's compelling, it has that sense of authority and gravitas, we need to breathe deeper. So I do very practical exercises in breathing, from their breathing, we then move on to projection. Projection is having volume in the voice, but not shouting. Some people think that to have a

loud voice, you need to shout. When you shout, it undermines your authority. So it's about understanding, about harnessing that power that comes from the chest area. Then we work on the pitch, the pitch of the voice. So there was some interesting research done 2014 it was around Obama's first presidency. So it was a group they wanted to understand voter preferences in

terms of voice. So what they did was they had a man and a woman, and they got them to record some dialog, and one of the sentences that came out from this was in inverted commas. I urge you to vote for me this November. And what they did was they altered the pitch so they had a higher pitch, they had the normal pitch, and then they had a slightly lower pitch. And they asked the group, who would you vote for? Nearly every single person said that they would vote for the person with the deeper

voice, even though it was the same person speaking. So this is this relationship between pitch and authority as well. So the evidence, for me, is working with people to maybe slightly lower the pitch. Now, again, it comes back to authenticity.

However, if somebody has got a very high pitch voice, and sometimes when they're speaking faster and it's getting higher and higher, and they're trying to, let's say, get a buy in, or they're maybe delivering a town hall, then definitely we need to work on the pitch to get it lower, because that feeds into that authority and that gravitas. And then the final piece of the puzzle is the articulation as well the clarity

of the message. Because as you said, you know, here we are in Hong Kong, so a lot of the people that I'm working with, they will be presenting to people from all around APAC. So typically the listeners won't be first language speakers of English, so all the way down from Korea to China to Hong Kong to Singapore to Bangkok to Dubai and Japan. So everybody has their own limitations in terms of understanding. So we have to be very mindful of the way that we speak if we're delivering

technical and complex language. So risk like type language, we've got to be very mindful of that. If we take the time and again your question about evidence, when I'm working with people, getting them to understand clarity really, really important. So it really becomes bringing everything together. The breathing gives you the powerful voice, which gives you projection, the pitch is lowered, and then the

articulation, which gives you the clarity. You put all of that together, and then you have a very winning communication style. Excellent. I mean, so much evidence and some great techniques there. I guess the other thing is that people are often speaking, you know, in front of a camera or recording videos. Obviously, that's now an important element of corporate communication certainly. Yeah Do you have insights on how to make your voice shine, I guess, in terms of when you're actually on camera?

great. Right? Okay, very good question, because this is something that I'm doing a lot of now. And again coming back with the high level people I'm working with, they are asking me, rather than, Oh, I've got a speech to work on. It's Hey, David, I've got to shoot a video. Can you help me? So the most important thing is, you mentioned the idea of making the voice shine. We've not only got to make the voice shine, but we've got to make the presence

shine. What I always advise people, if we're talking, let's say about videos, shooting videos. Typically, what will happen is a very busy C suite executive, they will get the cab over to the studio, and the corporate communications team have written the speech. They're having a quick look at it. Bam. They turn up at the studio, they sit in the chair, and they record it. So they send me sometimes previous ones that

they've done. And this allows me to get the evidence, the data, and based on certainly what I've been seeing, this is what I would say, some of the tips. Number one, you've got to give your energy or bring your energy up like 20 more percent. Absolutely, the face has got to be smiling. Because when we smile, the eyes go wider, and the voice gets stronger and it gets more engaging. It shines, as you said, right? So that's the first thing, because if people are concentrating too

much and maybe reading the auto cue. What happens is the eyes, sort of, they go in and they focus. And then what happens, as I mentioned, the resonance chamber, the face starts sort of pulling in to focus on the words, and then the voice drops Absolutely. in its intensity and engagement. So that's the first thing, bring the energy out. Secondly, you've been handed a script, what I

would honestly say is, make it your own. Because what happens is that we start looking through scripts, and the person would say, I wouldn't say that, no, that's not me. Try and edit it on the go. So for example, just simple things, try and get your voice. Other things that I see is that if scripts are written, they will be saying things like, you know, it is very good to be here today, right? Or, we have been very excited with the

risky women onto panels, especially because we really are news...contract. It's very good to be here today. We've been very excited with the news so just these contractions, it makes everything flow much faster. So bring the energy, change the script. Don't alter it massively, but make it your own. Practice on the auto cue, because this will give you that energy, and then you can just focus on actually being good on

camera. Okay? And the final thing is, I would say as well, if you are maybe being asked to film an annual address to the company, the global team, right? It's your image on screen forever. So I would say, take control. Don't just say, Okay, I've done it right, and I'm out off to my next meeting. Take the time sit down and watch it, because you might pick up on some unconscious habits. Were you blinking a bit too much? You

know? Were you scratching your face? Were you fidgeting? Pick out all of these things and just take control of the situation. So I would definitely say these are the tips that you must use. on a mission to remove all manels. And we have our Women to Watch List. We've got an amazing group I love it! on there with many different, you know, knowledge levels, topics of expertise, etc. But when you're thinking about panels, what's the way that you can bring a bit of impact to

those panels? How do you make a memorable contribution, for example? So first of all, let me break it down to first of all, if you're speaking on the panel, so basically, the whole idea of a panel, it's a conversation. So it's about providing thought provoking conversations. And let's face it, your audience is there primarily to see you and the other people. So you are the main attraction. So you've got to give them their money's worth, right? So you've got to be engaging. You've got to be

educational, and, I would say, also relatable. Now, the plus side of this, of course, for people who appear on panels, is that you are going to have your reputation enhanced if you're good, if you perform well, and you're going to get asked to speak at more events, and potentially this could lead to more bookings, more business, etc. So what you need to do is you've got to capture the room, but you mustn't show off. So it's kind of a balancing act. So what I would say first of all,

in order to really prepare yourself. Definitely do a briefing call with the other panelists so you get to know them, and also you're going to meet the moderator. Okay, so ironically, the more prepared you are, the more natural that you'll sound in front of the audience. Secondly, authenticity wins, so don't reel off like cliches and jargon. And instead, I think, share stories around the theme of the panel that will resonate with your audience. So we all want to connect with

somebody who's genuine. And again, as I said, it's a conversation. Data helps, obviously. So back up your stories with the data, your industry insights and your own observations. This gives you, as the panel expert, that credibility piece. Read the room as well. So if you are in tech and you're speaking to a tech audience, if you're in finance, you're speaking to a finance audience. You can use words, phrases, sentences, you know that people will understand. You

know, we're all part of that gang, right? But if you're speaking to more general audience, then you've got to slightly shift your language to make sure that you're hitting all of those points and all of the people in the audience. So just be mindful of the people that you're speaking to. Lose the ego as well. I don't know if you've been on panels where some people are kind of seeing it as a bit of a soapbox, you know, they start sort of promoting themselves. Yes, people appear

on panels because they want to get noticed. But there is a way to do that. So what you can do is you can connect your achievements to the topic. It's a very subtle way. So for example. Example, having successfully led our company through a multi million dollar M&A the biggest lesson that I learned in relation to your question is blah, blah, blah, right? You've got that in but you're not hogging the floor and showing off. And then the final thing as well is like, it's

about teamwork. Again, this is a conversation. It's not about you. So really, in terms of you know the group, it's referring to them by name, agreeing or disagreeing what they're saying. So the whole idea really is to be able to join in as a group, to have a conversation, to get your knowledge across, but to be authentic, to be likable. And you mentioned the moderator, Yes. And so obviously the moderator has a pretty key role to play. Absolutely, yeah.

What are you sort of hints and tips there if you're actually moderating the panel? Okay? So I moderated a few panels, and I've loved it. You know, the first time I did, it was a bit like, oh gosh, and it's a bit terrifying. I like to use that quote the Bruce Lee be like water, okay, you have to be flexible, but at the same time you kind of have to be rigid as well. So you are the conductor, and as such, you've got to steer, ther're very tight in

timing. That's really, really important. If you know these conferences, they run to the minute, so you've got to make sure that you're absolutely on time. Your job is to draw contributions from everyone. You know. I talked about the people who maybe their ego takes over. They want to talk a lot. You've got to just be prepared for those sorts of people and make sure that no one person dominates. So I talked about

preparing thoroughly. So in terms of the moderation, what I've done is I meet with the people, we go through the questions, and I'm very particular. I won't give the same question to each person, you know, something like, what do you think about voice, person A, answers and person B? And what do you think about voice, you know, it becomes very kind of formulaic and boring. It's kind of like an interview, as I or are you going to use a microphone? So what happens is

said, it's a conversation. So decide who's going to answer what, and talk to them as well about their timing, because we don't want people to go over time in terms of questions. A lot of people, they might be a little bit afraid of losing questions. You know, they've got a very tight framework of, let's say, 20 Questions, and I've got to move through those 20

questions. Naturally people will start speaking more. So if the conversation is going in a slightly different way, you can jettison the questions that don't really serve that purpose, but you've still got to make sure that you're bringing it back to the key focus of the panel discussion. Okay, so that's really important also, as a moderator, certainly, to show that you are listening and you're taking in the information. Think about paraphrasing and summarizing

before you move on to the next person. You know, that's just respectful. It shows that you're listening clearly. And, as I said, don't do the ask answer, ask answer, ask answer, because it just becomes very, very tedious in terms of the flow. that some people, they will have a handheld microphone, they will put it too close to their mouth, and we get these things called pops. So every time you're saying a P or a B, these plosives, pop, pop, pop, My surname is Pope, right? That's

obviously a difficult one, so we have to be careful. You know, when I'm introducing myself, so find the optimum position where you hold the microphone. And also, when you are addressing people on the podium, yes, you can look at them, but make sure that you're still looking back into the audience. The audience is sometimes forgotten, so do bring everybody into the conversation. So you're looking you're using gesture, you're using eye contact, all of these things. So yeah, and then it's

going to be very successful. If you do all of those things, I guarantee it will flow and it will be a great conversation. Very good tips, I would add. one is check what kind of chairs they're using, absolutely so you know what to wear. Yes, the stools, yes, no, that's, yeah, very uncomfortable as well, especially if you're in a skirt. Yeah, absolutely.

Oh, dear. So we've spoken a lot about different sort of formats. I think there's a famous quote that says that the only thing that people are more scared of than public speaking is death. Absolutely. Yeah, it's always brought up glossophobia, the fear of public speaking. Yes, glossophobia.

And I, you know, we are doing a lot of things with our Rev-up sessions, with our women's watch list, etc, because we want to have more women in the industry doing keynotes, doing panels, doing public speaking and showing the skills and the talent that we have in the industry. But I do worry that some of it is still nerves that are stopping people getting up there and, you know, maybe sometimes they're asked to

participate and not doing it. So what are some of those strategies that you would sort of recommend to maybe overcome some of those internal fears and get more women, especially on Yeah. I mean, I work with so many women, and I'm so fortunate the... that I get asked by a lot of women's groups to come and talk to them, because this is something that I feel very, very

passionate about, very strongly about. The first thing I say to people is just backtracking a little bit about saying yes, you've absolutely got to say yes to these things, because I will get people who will say to me, oh, you know, if only I'd done this earlier, not so much, used my voice, but learned to use my voice, if only I said yes to these things. Because when you say yes, it's terrifying, and you might make a mistake at first, but the more you keep doing it, the more confident you

will become. So the first thing is, just put your hand up to any opportunity to be public speaking. Now we talked about panels that's public speaking, going to networking events that's public speaking. Okay, the idea of just communicating, get confident with that. When I'm specifically working with people. So let's say I work with TED speakers and also with people who maybe are speaking to a huge audience. They're giving a global town hall. They're in an auditorium, and there are

people online as well, even CEOs, they get nervous. Mark Twain, Mark Twain has another quote. There are two types of speakers, those that get nervous and those who are liars. So everybody gets, I get nervous. My comfort zone is sitting in a small recording studio. No, I love that, headphones and microphones. It's my sort of happy place. So what happens is, it's the relationship between the breath, the mind and the

body. So this is a lot about that neuroscience. So what I do is, when I'm working with people, I give them specific grounding exercises. So the grounding exercises literally that word ground to ground. You I get people to close their eyes and breathe, so I'm getting them to understand the power of being literally rooted to the ground. So from that solid position, you've got that power. And what happens is, when people get nervous, they get shorter breath. The posture closes. We

close the body. We start sweating. We get a dry mouth. So I give people exercises breathing. So I give them inhalation and exhalation exercises. Now what this does is it calms the cortisol and the adrenaline, which is kind of raging, so it calms you down. It's also been proven as well it lowers your heart rate and also your blood pressure. So doing these grounding exercises where you're doing controlled breathing in and out, but through using the diaphragm,

diaphragmatic breathing. Now, as a voice coach, so much of my work is about getting people to use the diaphragm. Why? Because when you engage that deeper breath that gives you the power. So I will get people to do the breathing they're already grounded and they're starting to exercise the diaphragmatic muscle. Then what I get them to do is to open the body. And a great one is what they call the winner's pose. And the winner's

pose, if you you see people when exactly right? So when you see people when you run across the finishing line, typically what you do is your hands go up, head goes back, chest out, and you smile. That's a key thing as well, smiling. So what I get people to do, they ground, they're breathing, they're calming, and then they do the winner's pose. And the winner's pose opens up the body. It opens up the chest. I get them to put

their head back, and I get them to smile. And that act of smiling, again, it's linked to the neuroscience, so it's not just being cheesy. They smile, and that, again, calms them. So I walk people through this process many, many times, because I see it happen all the time. Then they take the stage, they get onto the online meeting, they walk into the room, et cetera. They're strong, they're dynamic, and they're engaged. Bam, job done.

I have said to my children, you should before you go into an exam, go to the bathroom, go into the toilet, do the fist pump in the air like you're a winner. Absolutely before an interview. Yeah. I think it just does something to your whole physiology, doesn't it? Totally and then it's coming from the, you know, the Amy Cuddy school is that that fake it till you make it. Because what happens is, if you're not feeling confident, what happens

physically to your body, it starts closing. So going, going against that, pushing it out, opening it up, and then everything starts to flow. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's a great thing to do.

I think we could continue talking for ages, but I am going to ask for biggest takeaways, like, what are the things that you'd leave us with to really keep in mind around speaking with confidence and our Speak to be Heard topic? Okay, so speaking with confidence, I would say ground

zero, to me, is about the recording two things. Record yourself if you have got anything high stakes coming up, if it's an interview, if you're getting ready to speak on a panel, if you're going to moderate, if you're speaking in a town hall, anything your pitches, presentation, anything which involves communication, record yourself first, do it on your own. You can do it on your phone, because when you record yourself, the data will be revealed. Do I speak too fast?

Am I mumbling? Are there lots of ers and ums? Does my voice have impact? Am I engaging? In other words, am I using intonation? This gives you all the data. Also, what will happen is, if you're maybe, you know, you've got a speech, what will happen is you'll see that maybe there are areas that you can edit out a little or, as I mentioned, the contractions, you can make it

your own. It can flow better. You can change this to that. So that would be the first thing, record yourself, audio record yourself. And do that independently, or have someone else listen? Well, I would say, first of all, do it independently, but it depends how self aware you are. Now obviously, for me as a voice coach, this is what I'm doing regularly with people. I'm

training them up to do that. So if you've got, like, a buddy at work who is willing to listen to you, but they have to be somebody who knows how to give feedback, in the sense that, when you play it to them, and they go, yeah, yeah, it's good, yeah, it's okay. No, you want somebody to say, well, actually, there were lots of ers and ums, or, you know, you could slow down little bit there somebody who's prepared to give you that feedback. And then the second thing, I would say, is the audio

is the first, the second is the video recording. If this is something where you need to present. So we talked about being on video, just set up a little camera stand and video yourself, because this is where you're going to see unconscious habits, gesture, posture. Are you pacing around? Are you maybe you know, nervous tics, running your hands through your hair. Well, I don't have that problem, luckily. So you know, fiddling

with glasses, all of these sorts of things. You want to make sure that you're seeing this all privately, discreetly, so you can learn from that. So when you get out into that event, you've done all of that work, all of these people, you know, the Obamas. Everybody wants to be like Obama. He's done years of voice coaching. He's practiced. He's practiced, he's practiced.

These people that make it look seamless, they've put the work in, if you're serious about going up that pipeline where communication is an incredibly important part of your job, then you really should put the work in. It opens all sorts of doors. And where can we find your online courses then? Right, so my company is called All Voice Talent, so if you check that out on the website, allvoicetalent.com and you'll see all of the information there. You'll see the workshops

I run, the one on one coaching, and also the online videos. And if you are somebody who uses LinkedIn, you can find me at David Pope, Voice Coach, based in Hong Kong. I think I'm probably one of the only ones here, based in Hong Kong. And if you do want to link to me, do please mention that you heard me and Kimberley on this wonderful podcast. It will be nice to know that there's a connection.

Brilliant. Yes. And obviously you're out and about all over the place, in London, Dubai, etc, so people can hopefully catch you where they are as well. Indeed, I think I last time I was in Dubai, I gate crashed one of your one of your gatherings! You did! It was fantastic. So so brilliant, David, so many great hints and tips there. But I am sure people are going to want to learn more about how they can use their voice and hopefully my voice has come across really well.

It has. It's wonderful. It's been a joy. It really been a joy to be interviewed by you. Thank you so much. Kimberley, thank you. Thank you, and thank you to all of our listeners for joining us today. Thank you for listening to this episode of Risky Women Radio, be part of the ongoing conversation and learn more about our events and other programs at riskywomen.org.