What Is Jeopardy? Merv and Julann Griffin Give Questions To Answers

our podcast. That's real, though. I don't know. There's something about having been in the world of self promotion for so long that I'm like so burned out on it and nobody cares about your dumb projects. And then someone asks and you're like, oh, yeah, yeah, I do this project and they're like, wow, cool, tell me more. Yeah,

but you want to know. I don't know. I always do that, like not to name drop this constantly, but I worked a little bit on the show Stranger Things when I was doing props on set, and you know, that show excites people, and also, like you know, it's name droppy. Like I'm not going to walk into a party and be like, hey, everybody, I've got stories for you, because I assume people like you know, they don't care.

They want to hear about my work day. But then someone will randomly be like, oh, I wanted to ask you about it, but I think you're sick of talking about it. I'm like, no, no, I'm actually fine talking about it. I thought you were sick of hearing about it, and we end up just not saying anything. Sometimes it's

best to just talk about it. Yeah. Well, hopefully you all, beautiful, wonderful, talented listeners are out there smoothing for us, telling everyone that your parties about our show because we we we'd love to have them. We'd love to have your friends in here too. Friends together, talk it up, talk it up, never ever, ever, stop talking about ridiculous romance. I want you to make it your entire person a reality. I want you to lose friends because you're the person who

never shuts up about that podcast you listen to. You're wishing some bad future upon It's better for them. You didn't need those friends, Okay, you have us, no lies, really trying to encourage the pair of social relationships. If it gets us those those sweet, sweet downloads, I'll do anything. Can you tell our renewal is coming up soon? Yeah? Right? Well, today's episode is fun. A little trivia mixed in here some classic television stuff we haven't been to in a while.

That since oh jees, I mean we've done some movies in Hollywood and stuff like you know, these these TV royals we haven't gotten into since, like Dassy and Lucy. I feel like, yeah, uh, and it's such a cool world. And I figured, you know, given the subject at today's show, we need a job start format a little bit. Okay, So Diana Europe, I want you to go ahead and choose a category. Um, I'll take Ridiculous Romance for five, please,

all right. The idea for this popular game show, known for giving contestants the answer and asking for the question in response, was created by a husband wife team in nine What is Jeopardy? That is correct ray and that means you're going to win a copy of our home game, Ridiculous Pursuit. Actually that would be a really fun game. Yeah, please podcast, we'll put it in ridicution. We'll have ridiculous

definitely with all the shows. Oh my god, you could land on like a side piece space and they have a couple those around the board. That right. I don't know how the mechanics work. Get game developers get at well yeah, it works. This is a new idea. But today we're talking about Jeopardy, which is probably the most popular game show ever made. It's famous for its inverted answer question format. But the show's creator, Merv Griffin, he

didn't come up with the idea all by himself. Once again, like Lucy and Desi TV, history was made by a couple that found each other at the perfect time and came together to create a legacy that would change the industry forever. So let us do this action. What is go? Hey the French? Come listen. Well, Elien and Diana got some stories to tell. There's no match making, all romantic tips.

It's just about pridiculous relationships, a lover, it might be any type of person at all, and abstract consent on a concrete ball. But if there's a story where the second glance ridiculous role, that's a production of iHeart Radio. Okay, So before we can get to Merv and Julian Griffin creating Jeopardy, first we need to know where the show came from. And you know what that means. Means before we settle down into something serious, we're gonna take a

quick fling with history. Just answer the question. In nineteen thirty eight, both the first radio and TV game shows were broadcast. On the radio, the show was called Information Please, and it's kind of the standard panel quiz show with funny answer is like a wait, wait, don't tell me or something like that. Now on TV, the first game show was a British series. There's only about four episodes. It was called Spelling B. Was actually adapted from a

radio show and they just put it on camera. And this show was where contestants competed against well known celebrities and just like your usual Spelling B format. Sure classic also four episodes in Britain, that long running series. Yeah, season two might come out any day now. So of course these were big hits. And by the midnight teen forties TV game shows we're starting to get really popular. But they were all still pretty like low stakes, kind

of silly jokes and prizes. Nothing major. You know, you win a boxer, Ris Erroney, you win a new pillow. Sure, nothing life changing. Yeah. But then in nineteen fifty four, the Supreme Court ruled in the case FCC versus American Broadcasting Company that game show giveaways were not considered gambling and that the shows could give away as much money as they wanted, as long as the contestants didn't pay

any of their own money into it. So this changed everything and something that the networks were like, great, let's bring out the thousand, ten thousand dollar prizes even bigger and really get people excited about the stakes here. High stakes quiz shows like twenty one and the sixty four thousand dollar Questions suddenly became all the rage. But then in the late nineteen fifties, a series of scandals rocked

the quiz show world. So TV, you know, it's just beginning to really take root in American culture at this point, so people were still kind of innocent about it. Whatever they saw on TV must have been what was really happening. Of course, it's happening in the box in my living room. Obviously I can see it right there with my own eyes. TV never lies, But obviously we know better now. All

that high stakes TV was incredibly staged. Producers would script episodes they helped popular contestants win so they could come back, or even the opposite, they would try and trip up contestants that they thought were boring the audience so that they wouldn't win. They had to keep put them on TV. I mean, you know, it sounds very much like how we know Reality TV to operate today. Absolutely, reality TV is some of the most fake ship in the world.

Some of us may remember Dr Joyce Brothers, the famed psychologist. For example, History dot com says she won a few times on sixty four thousand dollar Question, but they felt like her streak was not good TV, so they tried to stretch questions out into categories that she wouldn't know. But she won anyway because she is from our lady.

But in ninety seven, there's this kind of awkward, nerdy looking guy named Herb Stemple who had been dominating in the Game twenty one week after week, just cleaning him up. But then this clean cut, handsome TV type named Charles Van Doren came in handily beat Herb, and the show then turned Van Doren into like an American hero and celebrity.

He became a new reigning champion, and historian Maxine Fabe said Van Doren was quote too likable, too special, too important, an icon to the American dream of success to fade from view. And it turns out the producers were actually coaching Van Doren. Before every taping session of the show, they would tell him everything, and not just the answers to the questions, but like when he should pause and think about it, or when he should like wipe his forehead when he was too hard, like has what I

need to really stock sweating? Mr? Van Dorn? Question make you nervous that this one you're gonna have to get up and go pee while you think about it. So it turned out that all of this was completely choreographed and staged, and it wasn't just Van Doren getting coached that nerdy guy Herb Stemple. He was told by the network that if he threw the show and lost, they

would give him a high salary job. So even though his like big question versus Charles Van Doren was about his own favorite movie, Marty her pretended that he didn't know that it was the Best Picture winner that year. He got the question wrong, and now Van Dorn was the new champion. Well guess what when it came to it, the network did not give her that job. Obviously, he was pretty pissed that he'd thrown his fame in the trash and also didn't get a good job now, so

he started talking to reporters, talking to the police. You know, at first, nothing really came of it. NBC was pretty good about burying this kind of stuff, yep. But in nineteen fifty eight, reporters got ahold of his story. Evidence started to come up, and soon the public and the d A of Manhattan, we're all made aware of what

was going on here. Now, technically nothing that NBC or the game shows were doing was illegal, but they held all these hearings on it, and during the earrings, Grand Jerry estimated that two thirds of the witnesses they questioned lied under oath, including Van Dorn who later admitted to it. And this, of course was illegal. Thell like, we want to ask you about something you're doing that's not illegal, and everyone's like, I'm going to quickly break the law.

Yeah right now. You know, everybody avoided jail time, but there's a bunch of fines, bunch of trouble. And then in nineteen sixty this caused Congress to amend the Communications Act of nineteen thirty four, and this made fixing game shows quite illegally. Indeed, from that point on, you might have heard this story because you might have seen the nineteen movie Quiz Show, directed by Robert Redford. This was

all about this story between Herb and Van Doren. John Turturro played Herb's temple and Rafe Fines played Charles Van Dorn. We have not seen this. We need to watch this movie. I know that's pretty good casting. It's supposed to be one of the greats, like it's supposed to be just a really good Yeah, I've definitely watched. So spoiler alert for show movie. That's what happens. Guess what happens. But ultimately,

you know, the law changed. But the really the biggest thing about all this was public trust in these shows was gone. The people. The American public was shocked to learn that what they were seeing with their own eyes, on their own TVs and their own living rooms might not be true. Just heart attack all across America. Broken trust. No one was going to come back from this. They rejected big dollar quiz shows after that, ratings dropped, shows

were canceled. It was crazy, but that all brings us to our central old romance merv and Julan born in Julianne Right wanted to be an actress, so she moved to New York City after high school. She said in an interview with full Vonna Review dot com in that a lot of the jobs she had at the time don't even exist anymore, like operating an address a graph which basically prints addresses on envelopes. Probably probably that machine is probably the size of a room. Yeah, right now,

it's the size of my palm. Well. In nineteen fifty, Julian was working as a secretary on the Robert Q. Lewis Show, and she had to bring Robert Q. Lewis a cup of coffee on camera. Of course, ju Land's wearing heels. She's extremely nervous, so when she walks out on stage, she spilled the coffee everywhere, and Lewis sent her to a microphone and asked her why just spill my coffee. She said her balance was off because she

quote lost two pounds last night. When Louis aster how she lost two pounds in one night, she said, quote, well, I wanted to lose it, and I knew if my body temperature went down, I would, So I slept naked with the window open and snow coming in, which the audience thought was the funniest damn thing they ever heard. It was a different time. It's a different time. I know. I was like I didn't feel the need to laugh, but hey, it really worked for them. Comedy is different

back then it worked. They were like who would have the snow coming in? I guess right, or they were like a lady can be naked, implied boobs at Anyway, she got huge laughs for this, and Robert Huluis was like, okay, star powers, so he started bringing her on the show regularly now. Merv Griffin was born in nineteen five in San Mateo, California. His father was a stockbroker, so you can imagine things weren't great for his family when he was young. As a kid, Merv would sell magazine's door

to door to earn money for the family. He also played organ at his church. I was actually really talented musician at a young age, and by age nineteen he was singing on the radio. He was drafted for World War Two, but the military rejected him because he was

overweight and had a heart murmur. His fame kind of turned against him as a radio singer because when fans saw him in person, they were like incredibly rude that he didn't look like they thought he would, that he was an overweight guy instead of like Mr handsome, you know, so he sounded like a sexy friend. I think they were picturing. Yeah, they were like, that's not what I thought. M that's rude. He said in New York Times in nineteen sixty two, that quote, because of my weight, I

had to hide. Listeners would write romantic letters into the radio station, but the network kept me a mystery. When he first started on TV, he said they would do whatever they could to hide him. He said, quote their favorite device was to use me in a beach number. I was always singing behind an umbrella or a waterfall. Just brutal. I mean, you know, talk about image issues on camera. They've certainly been around since cameras have been around.

He said he was so embarrassed by all this that he ended up taking a year off and he lost eighty pounds in four months. How sounds unhealthy. Yeah, it probably puts some strain on his heart. I feel he already had a heart murmur. That's probably a bad idea, but whatever, Maybe he just ate right and exercised and managed to drop it all. Either way. By five, he had enough money to start his own record label, and

he started singing in popular nightclubs across the country. So in nineteen fifty he's staging with Freddy Martin's orchestra and recorded the hit song I've Got a Lovely Bunch of Coconuts Oh Wow, classic made famous by z of course in his Bone Cage. This song sold three million copies, but Merv only made fifty bucks. What, which is around six hundred dollars today. That's really not that much for three million copies of a song. Damn, it's like streaming service.

Then Doris Day was at a nightclub where he was singing and insisted to Warner Brothers that they give him a screen test. That led to supporting roles in a few musical films, including So This Is Love in nine three, in which he scandalized America by sharing the first on screen open mouth kiss with Katherine Grayson. Oh my god, mouth fainting in the audience, tones vomiting outside the theater. They're shaking and crying, the world coming to It's basically pornography.

Next thing you know, they'll be open mouth kissing horses on camera. Oh my god. Someone definitely said that. But it turned out that Merv Griffin was not that into the movie biz. He bought back his contract from Warner Brothers and decided he was more of a TV guy, and that led him eventually to regularly guest starring as a singer on The Robert Q. Lewis Show, where he would meet the lovely and talented ju Land Rights. We'll learn all about that coming up next. So don't go away.

We'll be right back after these messages. Welcome back to Double Jeopardy where values are double. That's always the most exciting part of the show to me. Double Jeopardy, Yeah, it's really anybody's game at this point. They always say that, they're like, it's really not anybody's game. It's one person's game. You never let more than one person win. The person

in dead last can win in Final Jeopardy. That is true, and I do like I appreciate that about some games when you're like, I'm doing poorly, but I know the values go up and there's still a chance. So even if you're behind early on, you've got to keep keep hope alive. Unlike real life, I just give up now. So Julian Right was now a regular part of The

Robert Q. Lewis Show. He was this classic nineteen fifties, like horn rimmed glasses comedian, and she was the perfect goofy foil to him, she said, quote he brought out the worst of me and we always got laughs. We ad lived for years. She said it really changed her perception of famous people too, because she was a secretary. She used to bring all these celebrities coffee when they came on the show. But now that she was one of their peers, she was seeing that quote they were

just regular people. Celebrities, They're just like us, just like us. Julianne said that she even saw some big actress come onto the show who was so nervous before she went out that julian had to show her to the bathroom so she could puke before him. She's like, oh my god, this this you know, movie star, this queen of glamour, and I'm showing her where she can puke because she's so scared of going on TV. Julian also had a big crush on this actor, Dick Haymes, who was the

star of a movie called State Fair. But he came on the show and before he went on camera, his crown tooth came off, so she had to use her clear nail polish to help him stick it back on. She said, quote, I thought, here I am. My heart would flutter when I saw this guy, and now I'm putting his tooth back in It does demystify that a lot. But then came the singer Merv Griffin, who julian said

had quote a gorgeous voice. Merv would laugh at everything, Julianne said, so they hit it off quickly and became best friends before long. I get it, I would be your friend if you laughed at everything. I'm like this, I need to hang out with you. Then Merv poach Julian to his own show in nineteen fifty six, which really piste off Robert Lewis and he hated Murv for years. But mervyn Julian's friendship soon turned to romance, and in nineteen fifty nine they got married. Later that year, they

had a son, Tony Griffin. Things were just getting better and better for them. MERV was hosting a few shows on his own, including a few game shows. Now, because of all the recent scandals, the public didn't want anything to do with high stakes quiz shows. Industry surveys said between eight seven and nine percent of viewers knew about the quiz show scandals and did not trust them anymore, um, which is a huge I mean, I guess that show how much the news was like, there's one thing you

gotta know about. Now, it's a little bit harder to get everybody on the same page. So most of the big quiz shows were canceled. Game shows became more about small prizes matchmaking like our favorite the Dating Game UM or celebrity panels, and Merv hosted a few of these. He even filled in on The Tonight Show after Jack Carr retired and before Johnny Carson took over. All right, but in nineteen sixty four, MERV wanted to develop a

new game show. MERV and Julane were on an airplane when she told him that it had been years since a good quiz show was on and maybe it was time for industry to try again. But MERV, you know, explained to her audience still didn't trust those kinds of shows. They thought all the contestants got the answers ahead of time.

So she said, quote, then come up with the show where you give them the answers and admit it, and then make them come up with the questions MERV, who knows a good idea when he hears that, go on, tell me more more? Huh, Julianne explained in her interview. Quote, so I said, the answer is five thousand, two hundred and eighty And MERV said the question is how many feet are in a mile? And I said, the answer is Cathy Fiscus. And he said, what's the name of the little girl who fell in the well? In the

nineteen forties? She said to Baker Street, he said, where does Sherlock Holmes live? By the time the plane landed, they had a show. I hate to say it, but if you said the answer is five thousand two, I'd be like arbitrary number. MERV knows more than a number of days it's going to take before I get this one exactly. Well. MERV only had one concern about this format, and that it was that there wasn't enough tension in

the show to keep it interesting. So Julianne said, quote, why not take money away when they get the answer wrong? That'll put him in jeopardy. Boom, say that one more time. I feel like, if you were making this into a biopic, it would feel unrealistic, right, But it is. That's so cute. I love that. You're totally right, that'll put him in jeopardy. What did you just say that? I'd be like, not true, can't be, can't be. He's sitting on the plane just humming.

What was that? Hey, that's catchy. He actually side note, h Merv did write the song for that as a lullaby for his kid Ridge, Yeah, and then jazzed it up and made it the Jeopardy theme. It's called think and it's not in the public domain, and we're not going to pay for it on this show, so you're not gonna today. You just have to play it in your head for yourself. So they had this great idea.

Julianne and her sister Maureen built model sets in their kitchen while Merv designed the layout of the game board. Julian said the executives at NBC were worried that the show was too hard for people like me who don't know about five thousand two or whatever, so they kept kind of dumbing it down for me, and eventually NBC picked it up without even shooting a pilot episode. They were just like, let's do this, and the show, of course, was a wild success. It first aired in nineteen sixty

four with host Art Fleming. It's first champion was a witty twenty six year old Southern woman named Mary you Banks, who was given the final Jeopardy answer quote, good night, sweet Prince was said to him, to which she responded, who is Hamlet? And she won three hundred and forty five dollars. That's only about three thousand dollars today, but Mary said it was enough for her to go and see every show on Broadway while she was in New York. Lucky Mary, you could not even get a ticket to

Hamilton's for three dollars. She did say that in her interview she was like Broadway was cheaper back, but it was a different time. It was like fifty cents to Jeopardy with Art Fleming ran until nineteen seventy five, So in nineteen seventy six, the only thing in Jeopardy was Merv and Julian's marriage. Yeah, it feels like fame and fortune is what led to their eventual divorce that year. Julian said in her interview with Silvana review quote, we had a lot of fun. He was a lot of

fun when we met. As time went on, he got busier and more well known, it just wasn't as much fun. Merv had grown accustomed to a life of luxury, which Julianne says sheep enjoyed, of course, but it all got to be a bit much. They were once in invited to have lunch with Princess Grace Kelly and Monaco, and Julianne said that it was lovely and quote wonderful being

waited on by all these footmen. But then she thought about being Grace Kelly and having to be in charge of all that and make sure everything was perfect all the time, and it just sounded overwhelming. She said, quote luxury should be luxury, not every day. I mean I kind of feel that, seriously. That's why I like, I kind of never want to own a swimming pool. I mean, unless you know I can afford people to take care of it for me. Well, that's the question is how

rich are you? Rich enough for the pool but not rich enough for the preside take care of But then even then, if I'm paid somebody take care of the pool, I gotta keep up with them and make sure that they're doing it and schedule them. And at some point I have to be paying attention to someone who's paying attention to all the people working for me. Right, I have thought that before. You know, say we won the billion dollar lottery jack pot or something, don't tell your

body you would want. Well, we haven't won, so that's better. Yet we haven't won. Everybody, you haven't won anything. But I mean, you know, I always think like you would want to get somebody in charge of that money, someone who knows how to handle that amount of money. But then I'm like, oh, but that's when that person starts stealing from you, And how do you know that they're not skimming off the top, and how do you even?

It's just crazy. It's a more money, more problems, like doing something legal with that money that you then get in trouble for exactly not pay your taxes or something like that. Happens all the time or all the time, but it happens. Here's what's important, just for our listeners out there, if any of you win, like you know, a million dollars and more in the lottery, don't go around sharing that with everybody. You want to kind of stay anonymous, contact me. I'll go over the steps with you.

We'll work it out. I'll hang onto the ticket and um, and we'll make sure that everything is square. Okay, you being real shady right now. I don't think you should just say trying to get a million dollars, just trying to turn us into fugitives. Look, at a certain point, you can buy your freedom. That's clearly true. After their divorce, speaking of luxury, Merv decided to get a yacht because he always wanted one when they were married, but he

decided to wait till after the divorce. Julianne was invited to come on it with their son and everything, and she said, quote, it was kind of nice to go on a yacht, but I'd rather have someone else take the barnacles off of it. Exactly what we're talking exactly. Maintenance is real a boat. I would own a pool before a boat. That's very true. Everyone I know who ever owned a boat, nothing a trouble. I know. Everyone's like the best thing to have as a friend with

a boat. Yes, and then you get to enjoy the boat without any of the stress of the boat. So if you own a boat, we'd like to come on your boat. After divorcing Merv in nineteen seventy six, Julianne was met with some hard truths even as a successful, wealthy white men in Hollywood. She said, she got pushed around because of her gender, and that sound means it's time for the daily double. The category is some bullshita. What is your wager? Oh me, um, I will say, uh,

thirty two dollars. I'll be going to make it a true daily double. You're putting it all out there, everything I have as if yeh okay, and your answer is The day after Julian's divorce, she went to put her credit cards in her own name, but the bank would not allow her to because she was this um, because she was real crazy. No, I'm sorry, of course, it's because she was a woman. I'm sorry. That takes your score down to zero. The money you never had is

now never going to be yours. Yeah, Julian could not because, as you know, women were not allowed to open credit cards or even have their own bank accounts for a significant period of time. So Julianne said, the very next day she got a call from some friends who were starting a bank, and they asked if she was interested in getting involved. So, obviously julian is not the only one who was like this. Sucks. I don't like this system.

Julian sat up, she said, I'll be right down, and together they started the first Women's Bank of California, and Julianne was instrumental in convincing celebrities to buy stock in the bank and open accounts, with their first member being Mrs Brady herself Florence Henderson. Oh my god, you gotta imagine if Florence Henderson got into anything. Every late seventies, everyone is like, well that's what I Yeah, I could trust Mrs Brady. Here's here I go to also do that.

Then soon Jane Fonda, Phyllis Diller, Fara Fawcett, and and Bancroft for all opening accounts there, and by late nineteen seventy six, sixty three percent of the bank's shareholders were women, holding more than one point five million dollars in stock. I mean, this really says there's a need, you know, for what women were like, I'd like to control my finances,

please and thank you. The bank's own board of directors didn't think women had enough experience with personal finance, so the women in charge put extra effort into making sure to help women manage their money, especially after a divorce. I find this a little ironic because women historically were in charge of household finances and household budgeting and stuff like that. So it's very funny to me to be like, well, you can handle it for a house, but like, not

for your house, not for yourself, not for yourself. Yeah, you'll do something crazy with it, right, I don't understand that, But at any rate, it was just some bullshit as we that's the category we're in. So yeah, I'm sure these guys were like, well, sure women can calculate groceries and pay the phone bill, but managing how stock portfolio is clearly beyond the capacity of their tiny, tiny brains.

How could they gamble arbitrarily like we do? Know? When and from all over the world came to visit them to kind of learn how to open banks themselves, and soon similar banks were opening in Japan and countries in Africa. This is a cool legacy, amazing Yeah, oh, but wait a minute, we skipped over one of the most important games of all. I mean, we just said that Jeopardy got taken off the air in nineteen seventy five, So what the heck have we've been watching this whole time,

great question with no answer right. Well, of course, the show was rebooted in nineteen eighty four and MERV Griffin was right back at the helm, but this time Art Fleming turned down the job. Art was very popular and MERV needed a new host, who of course ended up being Alex Trebek. But Trippec didn't get the job on his own. MERV was pushed to hire him by an executive at NBC. That brings us to Final Jeopardy And

the category is famous redheads. All right, everybody place your wagers and we'll come back with the answer right after these messages. Okay, welcome back to the show. Before the break, we gave you the category famous redheads, and here is the answer. This quirky comedian turned Powerhouse TV executive had some explaining to do when MERV Griffin called her up

for advice on finding a new host for Jeopardy contestants. Uh, my single contestant, I'm gonna give you two seconds to write your question down because we're not paying for the Jeopardy music. So here's your song and done. Diana, you were in the lead with forty two trillion dollars. Uh, so you did very well on your daily doubl uh. So what is your response? Who is Carrot Top? I'm so sorry Carrot Top was actually not an NBC executive

in ur. I'm so sorry you might not be coming back next week, but let's go ahead and find out what your wager was. Forty one trillion dollars. I'm so sorry you'll be leaving with a measly trillion dollars today, hanging my head in shame. Let me tell you, well, let's find out the real answer. So MERV was super nervous about replacing Art Fleming, who, of course had been very popular. But the show was moving to Los Angeles, and among other reasons, Fleming was not willing to move.

Sports Illustrated said in nine that Fleming hated the glitz and polish of the New l A show, saying, quote, people are more intelligent in New York. New Yorkers are alive with it. In California, there's no mental stimulation. A typical conversation consists of, I've got a new diet, how's your tennis game? Are those clothes from Gucci? And then you'll look at each other. I love that. I love that.

Art Fleming's idea of a conversation in l A all ends with people just staring in silence at each other. What an indictment of l A. We got nothing else to say. I've exhausted my conversations. I only have nothing to offer man the l A New York feud. I guess that's been going on since Hollywood began to I know, right, I always associate East Coast West Coast with Tupac and Biggie, But no, it was Art Fleming first. It was Art Fleming. Art versus Trabec was the original Fleming v. Trebek was

the West and East Coast battle originally. Wow, it changed a lot in the nineties. Maybe this is very Atlanta of me, but I like both of you guys. I think you each have a lot to offer. Art Fleming also thought that the show was getting dumber and the answers were designed to lead the contestants into getting the Chris's questions right. So anyway, Art was just like, I'm done with Jeopardy. I got nothing to do with Jeopardy, So I needed somebody new and who has all the

right answers to TV's toughest questions. The one and only Lucile Ball right our bestie, Lucy. Merv was friends with her, so he calls her up. He's like, listen, I gotta replace Art. What am I gonna do? And she said, oh, I know, you gotta take this guy. Alex Trebek Canadian, calm, eloquent. Everyone loves him. He had been hosting a ton of game shows before that point, right, A classy gentleman, trustworthy,

he had it all. The rest is history. Obviously, Trebek hosted the show until his own death in That's a long time. I mean, he was like the guy um sad coincidence, though, Art Fleming died in from pancreatic cancer and Trebek died from the disease twenty five years later at eighty years old. Well. Merv Griffin continued to have a very successful career, and when he retired in nighties six, Forbes magazine said that he was the richest Hollywood performer

in history. Merv himself said that he never knew his own net worth because quote, it would keep me from sleeping at night. Don't tell me. He's like, I'm remembering selling newspapers as a kid, and I feel like I would not like myself. From the Jeopardy theme song, Think alone, which he wrote. He said that he made close to seventy to eighty million dollars. Who again, they will not be seeing a penny from us to that song. I'm sorry, I'll can't hear it today. We are not going to

play it. Uh merv was best friends with Ava Gabor from the mid eighties until her death in but she said that they had never been lovers at Julane moved to a farm in Fluvonic County, Virginia, where she installed a tennis court, and she would invite her friends to come visit and play. Those friends, Oh, no, one important, just some riff raff, like an old actor buddy from her teenage theater days when she did Summerstock named Jerry Silberman. Whoever heard of that guy? Sounds like a real nobody,

except later he would change his name to Gene Wilder. Geen, you got me again. Gene Wilder and his wife Gilda Radner, along with their friends Mel Brooks and his wife Anne Bancroft, would come and play tennis with Julianne every Sunday for fifteen years. Oh my god, she said, all the time they spent together, they never stopped laughing. Tennis just to play. Like I'm like, I don't like to run and stuff, but like, I'll do it for y'all. I'm not in

the sports, but I am very into Young Frankenstein. So oh my god. So Julianne and Merv remained close friends their whole life, despite the divorce. She said, quote he loved my family and I loved his, so we'd have lots of family get togethers. He'd take us all on trips. He loved to play games, which I didn't. I still don't. She laughed at herself for this, because games are kind of her whole thing. I get that I don't love games either. So you made millions of dollars creating games.

Very true, so I'm allowed to dislike them. They have done. What have you done for me? Games? She said, It was like being a chef. She's like, you love giving food to other people, but you don't want to go home and cook. I see that, or I don't like I don't like eating it that much. Like I could see really enjoying making up the rules and like the structure of a game, but being like, I don't want

to play it. I don't like to compete watching people have fun playing the game you made and whatever you I'm so glad you guys are having fun, but it looks awful outdidious who came up with this garden? Did this? You get the answers and give the questions. Who's dumb idea? Was that? Herself? Seeah? Julianne helped create Jeopardy. She also helped MERV on some of his other shows, and she and her sister later started a game company called Jam

and Candy. When TV game shows were kind of drying up, Julianne read in the paper that people are starting to make games on PCs. She said, quote, so I called up my sister and said, Maureen, do you want to start making games for PCs? Maureen said, what's a PC? And I said, I'll call you back when I find out that what's a PC? H I'll look it up. That's so Hollywood, though, you know, like, I've never heard of this thing before, but let's go make some money

at it. True. She's like, it's the next big thing. I'll figure it out now. MERV Griffin passed away in two thousand seven at two years old from prostate cancer. His tombstone reads, I will not be right back after these messages. It's just so great. I love a good a good joke on a tombstone, me too. Did we already talk about Jack Lemons? I don't. I don't think on the air though his tombstone says Jack lemon In It's so good, so good. Was like, what a perfect joke.

I love it. But after MERV Griffin's death, Hollywood Reporter published an article saying that MERV Griffin had been a closeted gay man. Reporter Ray Richmond said that MERV lived his life in the closet, but that it was always a well known secret in Hollywood. MERV himself always dodged questions about his sexuality. He even joked to New York Times once quote, I always tell everybody I'm a quarter sexual. I'll do anything with anybody for a quarter, just like Boomer.

Answer right, and I'd be like, you should value yourself more highly. Right. A lot of this first came up when in nineteen one, a man named Brent Plot, who was an employee of Mervs who worked as a bodyguard, a horse trainer, and a driver, filed a two hundred million dollar palimony lawsuit against MERV Griffin. He said that he was merv's lover and his business consultant for years, and was entitled to a piece of Merv's empire. According to New York Times, Plot told NBC News quote, we

lived together, shared the same bed, same house. He told me he loved me. Now, palimony is a not not technically a legal term, but it's a portmanteau of pal and alimony. It refers to situations where the involved parties aren't married, but it is, you know, referenced in the courtroom pretty often, and there are cases where, you know,

people have won these lawsuits. That same year, ninety one, Danny Arrio, who was the host of mervs nineteen seventies disco show Dance Fever, filed an eleven point three million dollars sexual astment suit against MERV for his behavior back on Dance Fever. Both cases were dismissed. MERV said of plots claims, quote, this is a shameless attempt to extort

money from me. This former bodyguard and horse trainer was paid two and fifty dollars a week, lived in one of two apartments underneath my former house as part of his security function, and left my payroll six or seven years ago. His charges are ridiculous and untrue. But Ray Richmond says in Hollywood Reporter that these scandals only pushed

MERV further into the closet. He writes that MERV quote certainly didn't owe us an explanation, but maybe he owed it to himself to remove the suffocating veil he'd been forced to hide behind. Then again, MERV carved his niche in the entertainment world at a time when being gay wasn't okay, when disclosure was unthinkable, and the allegation alone

could deep six ones career. Uh so, yeah, I mean this, this is a tough one because you know, I'm so of uh like, well, believe victims, you know what I mean, of course, and of course someone with a lot of money is gonna, yeah, say whatever they got to say. And the richest man in Hollywood, you know, it's believable that he could get a case dismissed easily, you know,

fairly easily. On the other hand, this is sort of the what's wrong with That's the problem is saying, oh, there's a certain sexuality, it's not okay to be so I can blackmail you, I can do anything I want to you, and all I have to do is to this one accusation, and everyone will believe me instead of you because of the associations that they had. Right, if I suggest that you're sexual deviant or abusive, or or or a pervert or anything like that, the public and

the courts will believe it merely because I'm saying you're gay. Yeah, and they already believe they think of that as a deviant, as a perversion, so it's easy to believe that you could be capable of anything. On the third hand, you know, you've got to look at plot Ontario both coming out and making these claims, probably bringing a lot of that same negative attention to themselves for having had you know, especially plot who said, you know, we slept in the

same bed together. Um, that's I don't know if he'd want to put himself through that for two hundred million dollars um, but uh, but it seems like a lot to go through. It's very true, there's not a lot of reason to do it, even if he wins the money. There's so much stigma, even in the nineties, it's like, why would you do it if if you you know, if it wasn't really true. But then on the fourth hand, you have a lot of money, and people want a piece of it, so they find a way to get

a piece of it. It's just frustrating. Yeah, and unfortunately, you know, that's really all the information there is about there about it because the cases were dismissed. I'm sure MERV did what he could to get it out of the news as much as he could, and being one of the most wealthy and powerful people in Hollywood, he probably had those connections to keep it out of the news. Yeah. Yeah,

up in the air. I could not speculate on this one. Well, and that's part of Ray Richmond's story in Hollywood Reporter. You know, he doesn't bring it up till after his death, and it's immediately after his death, and he points that out. He's like, it's weird that in two thousand seven, we can't even talk about it, you know. So yeah. Yeah.

On the plus side, that article from two seven laments the challenges of being gay in Hollywood, and Richmond writes, quote, while it seems everything has changed today, little actually has. You can count on the fingers of one hand the number of high powered stars and public figures who have come out. Yeah, hopefully that seems better now than it wasn't two dozen and seven. I think there's more than one one hands worth of out gay celebs, it doesn't,

you know, sexual or whatever. But I'm not a gay celebrity. I'm not an aspiring gay actor, so I can't say what the challenges are like now. But from an outside perspective, it does seem like it's you can come out as gay now and not be as worried about your career, you know what I mean. Like, I think there you still run the risk of, like, well, if audiences see you as gay, they're not going to believe you in

this romantic part or whatever. So it's still may very well cut off some of your audience or uh, you know, limit the number of roles that you're available for. I think that probably is still true, but certainly not like you know, even yeah, what feels very recent two thousand seven, where yeah, I mean it was it was people were still murmuring about someone like I hate to say it, but Kevin Spacey. You know, um at the time where the biggest scandal about him was that, like, I think

he's gay, is he ever going to say so? You know, obviously with news scandals about now, but it's more much worse. So he's a bad example given the conversation we were just having. But now I'm like, I'm kind of thinking because I also was going to mention being typecast if you're gay, you can't how if you're an out gay actor, you know, they won't put you in a heterosexual love story or something. And I immediately was like, well, Neil Patrick Harris, you know, played a straight man and everyone

knows he's gay and married and everything. But on the other hand, his those roles are you know how I Met your mother? And Harold and Kumar their comedy roles, it's like part of the fun of the roles that you know, he's not interested in these ladies, so you can play this really dirty, disgusting, womanizing character in a way that like maybe a straight guy couldn't do as easily or um or it just wouldn't be as funny, especially Harold and Kumar. The joke is like, surprise, I'm

not actually gay. Yeah, I'm the worst straight person in the world. So as of this recording, Julianne is still alive at nine three years old. She's living on her farm in Virginia. Jam And candy games still seems to be kind of going. It's like got a small active presence. They've got a couple of little mobile and Facebook games out there, like Kiss and Cousins with two k's and other one called Move your Vowels. Okay, Move your Vowels is number one punt. That's pretty good. But what is

kissing Cousins about? What is the game? I did not try it, Cousin, as far as I know. I know some royals would disagree. That's for a later episode. Julan told the flu on a review into that the game company hadn't made any money, but they would like to start hiring people, so it would be nice if they did. But she said she'd learned enough from show business that you can't set your expectations too high for anything really.

But then when she was asked about the best part of her life, she said, quote that's too hard to answer. I liked my waitress job because what it did for me. People say that when you serve others, you're serving yourself. That's true. I loved my marriage, my son, my family. I'm glad I got the farm. The tennis court changed my whole life. It's almost like when I was born, I was put in a magical chariot and went through life like an idiot, being blessed with all these opportunities.

My life has been unbelievable. I agree with Julianne. She her life has been Yeah, Tennis Court would changed my life too. If mel Brooks started hanging out there and thank Gene Wilder and Gilding over every week. Come on, what friends, that's a party and we crash on our time travel. Oh my god, party. They'd be way more noticeable round What are you doing here? Um? But if I could, I would, If I could blend in, I would definitely go and laugh, be a fly on the wall.

Oh my god, it sounds amazing. I love it this story like in some ways it reminds me, of course, of Lucy and Desi. Um, And in some ways it reminds me of George Lucas and Marcia right because they both um other stories where the you know, the couple was both involved in this massive project. Lucy and Desi a little different because of course, both of them got

their own due credit in their own way. As I think, if anything, Lucy got more and I think Desi was lacking a little in what people understand him to have done for the industry. But this kind of in the Georgia Marcia way where it's like you hear Jeopardy and obviously the first name you think of his Alex Trebeck.

And then if you know, you know, if you watch the show, you see merv Griffin's name at every episode, But who the hell has ever mentioned Julianne in talking about Jeopardy and the whole thing was kind of her idea at least she was, you know, the two of them really developed it together, right, I mean, if there are stories, right, she's the one who's like, well, give

them the answer. Then I don't know, put him in Jeopardy, Like she's totally coming up with the whole thing exactly, and she's you know, she Their divorce was relatively amicable from what I could tell. They did stay friends their whole life, which I loved, like Lucy and DESI um, But it's not like she came out later and was like, actually, Jeopardy was my idea, give me the money, you know. She was just like, yeah, we were a couple and he asked me what I thought. I told him and

we made this show. Well I'm glad we know about Julian now, because I think that's really cool and again, what a cool life. Seriously, just to even be on a six D show, you know, cutting it up with the host, that would be such a fun gig. By accident too, right, like exactly on camera. I don't know. It reminds me of The Simpsons where Bart does I didn't do it, and he like went out on crusty show and he accidentally knocked a set over. He says I didn't do it, and everyone laughed and then that

he was like got famous for that. I love it too, because you know she she was nervous and then she spills the coffee and she's like, I'm fired. You know, she must have had like a thought on her head like, well, I did the thing I was scared I would do, and now I'm screwed. But then she was just funny on the mic and it was like that's all you need. So you know, that's just I guess that's the magic

of the TV movie biz. That's what makes it kind of addictive, is that sometimes the most random little thing just sends you off into a j any that you never expected. And that's what people are like, I want that, right, want that? I want that? So everybody tell your friends about the show, so we can get a TV show. Still, some coffee on screen. Give me a chance. I can spill coffee as good as anyone. Don't tell my old boss at the breakfast place. Let's get you on, Jimmy Kimmel.

You can spill coffee all over him and see what happens. Well, I do hope that merv Griffin was not a big piece of ship. Also, um, but obviously not for us to decide, I suppose because I don't have enough information. Yeah we can. We can both not say those people were lying and not say you know, merv Griffin was guilty or innocent. Yeah, just leave that one there. That one's that one's for you to decide. You enter your

own speculation station, decide for yourself, Mervane here. So yeah, in fact, hey, right in and tell us what you think. There you go, merv f n Right in and tell us how much you're going to tell your friends about the show. And right in and tell us if you won the lottery. Oh my god, jeopardy or jeopardy what

another thing I want to do? Uh? In an episode coming up, there are several couples who fell in love on Jeopardy as contestants, and of course I'd love to talk about Alex Trebec and his marriage to Jean also, so well, we'll get into some more Jeopardy stuff on the show. I gotta I have. I have one, two, three, four people I know have been on Jeopardy. Wow, which I feel like makes me smarter. I mean, yeah, I guess my fifth grade teacher, Mr. Green, smarter by association? Yeah?

Mr Green. Uh, my my high school girlfriend was later on Jeopardy. Friend of mine from college, and another friend from high school was on a couple of years ago. I don't think I know anyone who's ever been on Jeopardy. Well, you know somebody who knows people who been on Jeopardy, so close enough, you're a little smarter by association. Maybe I'm this smart one and everyone's waiting for me to be on Jeopardy. Having thought about that, I'm just kidding.

No one is waiting for me. We watched that episode last night, and you were You knew the answer so well you didn't even feel like you needed to respond. I feab like I was pretty impressive. Yeah, because I was definitely paying attention right, you were scrolling on your phone like whatever, yep, counsel of anyway, whatever angle, that's the one I knew, the wrinkle in Time, that's the one I Sam. I think his name was Sam. If

you're listening, I did the same thing you did. And the final jeopardy question I was supposed to be what is our American cousin? Could play that? Abraham Lincoln was shot at and he said what is our mutual friend? Which is what I guessed. But that's the Charles Dickens book. He also as soon as he they said no, he was like, oh, he knew it. He remembered it, which I was like, that would be me. That would definitely

be me. That's why I don't like games, because I like the minute you asked me what's your favorite book? Or whoever did that song? It's like everything I ever knew is wiped clean from my brain. I'm like a newborn of songs. I'm calling bullshit once again. Because Diana Brown hates games. She hates playing them. She doesn't want to do them. If I ever suggested, she's like, no, anything but that. But when you get her to play a game, she wins every time every game, from Settlers

of Catan to Mortal Kombat. This girl dominates, but she won't play. I don't know why you don't like the feeling of winning. Maybe they're not challenging enough. Wow, I'm just kidding. I don't know. I don't like to compete, and I do get competitive something I get mean. Sometimes you've said something, I've said something cut a little deep sound, but I usually laugh. I know you always don't want to get a twitch and just drive onto and seriously,

you scream the wildest things. It's shocking but hilarious. I'm also really bad driver, so I crash every time in the game, and you're in life. I'm a good driver, but in Grand Theft Auto and Mario Kart, honestly, any any driving game, it is not working out. Its hilarious. I'm doing poor. We do have to start that twitch. It'll do better than this show. I'm telling you, it will be top of the charts. Well, as long as there's no one to be harmed by my my competitive streak,

I'm happy to do it. As long as you don't find out that it's like war games and the whole time you've been playing there's been a car out there somewhere doing the actual thing you're doing. My god. Well, but let us hope that you enjoyed this episode because this was really fun. I love learning more about TV people in TV history and Jeopardy and this land. And she started that bank. Oh god, she upside that bank, which is so dope. Seriously, anyway, reach out and let

us know what you thought. Or again, if you want Eli to steal, I mean, manage your lottery winnings. This is our email address. What is ridic Romance at gmail dot com. That's correct. The next category is social media. You can find Diana on Twitter and Instagram at this handle what is at dianamite boom. And you can find Eli on Twitter and Instagram at this handle? What is at? Oh great, it's Eli, And you can find the show Ridiculous Romance on its own handle. What is who is

at ridic Romance is at ridic Romance. Don't ask that. That's right at danamite Boom at O graded Eli at ridic Romance. We can't wait to hear from you, and we love you for spending time with us today. Right, Thanks again, We'll see you next time. Solo friends, it's time to go. Thanks so listening to our show. Tell your friends name's uncles in to listen to a show. Ridiculous Romance