Sophia Loren & Carlo Ponti

It was more squozy. You know. Hey everybody, Hey, well, welcome back to the show. I'm Eli, I'm Diana, and we're here with another amazing episode bring to you today at epic tale of romance against all odds. Yeah, you know, some really right in the heart of Italy and where where else heart of Italy and also fifties Hollywood glad man forget it. Yeah, this is all the ingredients for a for a very spicy to meet the ball romance. It's gonna be a lot of Italian accents today, um,

but it's okay. My family is largely Italian, most of my dad's side, most of that side is Italian, despite somewhere along the way, some somebody married up Banks and got that British last name for some reason. I tell you I have. I have grandmother's whose last names were If I'm getting this right, Screwdado, Shimento and del Bagno. So a lot of cool Italian names. I mean, you know, Banks has been it's it's my name. I love it, but sometimes I'm like, come on, I kind of had

a Colt, very different player. Yeah, yeah, different mouth feel. I always complained that I my my mom's side of the family is like tall, pale Scottish Irish people, and my dad's started the family is like short, olive skinned Italians. And guess what I got, short and pale. Really screwed up there. Gotta not trade these jeans out right. If I could just do a little swappy swap like Gattica style, if I got that Irish height but that Mediterranean skin

would be unstoppable. Keep your eyes though, wherever they come from, all right, yeah, we'll keep the eyes. Nice to know you'd keep part of me the same, just the one part. Oh well, romances blooming here tonight. Our marriage is going great, going great, good, really really showing each other a lot about what we really think. Well, uh, let's uh, let's dive in with we haven't checked the bag in a while. What do you say you looking to it? I think

I think we've got a mail call. Awesome. Yeah. Randy Jensen, a sixth grade teacher in Denmark, reached out on Instagram after our Lily Elbe and Gerdo Regnar episode. So that's cool. Yeah Denmark. Yeah, Randy wrote, thank you so much for your podcast. The laws in Denmark these days still make it difficult for trans people. We all have social Security numbers and male numbers and uneven and female and even numbers. Oh that's interesting. They have social Security like their number

correlates to their gender. We don't have that. I think by state. There's some coding by state that's interesting. And Randy says you can change gender, but it is such a hard process for the person involved. We're such a bureaucratic society, mostly to keep people safe, but sometimes those boxes make it hard for people who don't match them. Generally, we are open minded and mostly woke, but we did get into the latest feminism wave very late, which also

impacts lgbt Q plus views in public. Interesting which I mean, you know, we did talk about the Nazis came through and totally decimated all of that type of ship for a very long time and for for a decade or more. So it's like set the conversation so far back. Yeah, so it's kind of no wonder that maybe that would take a minute. And uh yeah, it goes on to say that some of their students still have sexist and homophobic views, but they're trying their best to teach open mindedness.

So good luck from us, Randy on at absolutely task. Teaching open mindedness is incredibly important. It is very important and difficulty. Also, Yeah, it's so interesting about the social security numbers. I don't really know how it works here. If uh, listeners, send us in your social security number, and uh we will We'll do a little independent study here and try and figure out what we can your gender and your social security number. Yeah, includes some other

details as well. Um, you know, just so we have you know, we we can measure all the data Mother's made in names. Um, I suppose I'd be curious if like you're banking infoe corresponds to your social security numbers. So yeah, just send all that type it up shoot it over in an email. I think I heard. I heard. It's going to be cool with us turning this into a big scam. Okay, I think our lawyers have just informed me and our lawyers. By the way, as Hobbes

the dog, he says, he don't do that. Don't send me your social Security numbers or your bank account information or any personal info you don't want shared. Wow, Hobbs is a good lawyer. That's very good advice. He's been paying attention. He should put it. He should drop up a whill next I bequeath all my bones to me that maybe he's not a very very narrow fields to the well. That's all very exciting. Thank you Randy for

writing in so glad people are enjoying that episode. Um, if you haven't heard it yet, go check out that two parter about Billy Alban Gerda Vagner because it's really fascinating, a beautiful story. Yeah, today we've got a totally different story. This one A name you've surely heard, I hope, Sophia Louren. She is an Academy Award winning actress Italy with nearly a hundred acting credits to her name between nineteen fifty

and today. She navigated the international film market as a compelling, beautiful, and hilarious comedic actress while weathering scandal after scandal and constant scrutiny from the media in her personal affairs. Her husband was the Italian producer Carlo Ponti, a man that Tabloid's joked was quote twice her age and half her height. But through it all, Sophia and Carlos stood together against Hollywood establishment, the American press, and not one but two popes.

Two popes toe to toe with the popes. So this is very exciting story, epic sweeping romance. And I say we jump right in. Let's do this. Hey their French come listen. Well, Elia and Diana got some stories to tell. There's no match making, no romantic tips. It's just about particulous relationships, a lover, it might be any type of person at all, and abstract cons that draw a concrete wall. But if there's a story, were the second glance ridiculous

Roles a production of I Heart Radio? Okay, So flashing a little further back in time, in nineteen thirty two, a woman named Romilda Villani entered a contest in Italy to find the perfect looklike for the famous actress Greta Garbou. Now, MGM had put the contest together to try and find someone who could work as a stand in for the starlet, and the grand prize for winning this was a ticket to Hollywood for a screen test. If you look enough like Greta Garbou, we'll fly out here to just make sure,

yeah for If not, we'll send you back in. You probably gott to buy your own plate to get home, probably right. It's not no round trip ticket. It's kind of like American Idol where your auditioned to go to Hollywood. They're like, you going to Holly one and then you get there and then you have to win good luck. So Romilda was a gifted pianist. She had graduated from a conservatory with honors, and she was very talented actress. She was beautiful and she won first place as the

Italian Garbo. But the problem was Ramelda is only seventeen years old at the time, so her parents had to give approval for her to take this trip to Hollywood, and they did not. They were definitely like no, no, no, no, America. That's a that's a dangerous, a very tiny girl, you know, talking with their hands right right right, you know, spoonful of JOCHI slapped on the plate. You keep eating, you're not to go into Hollywood, not that you finish your plate,

and then not at all. So when Ramelda turned eighteen, she moved to Rome to try and break into the burgeoning phil own business there, and that's when she met Ricardo Chicolonne, a construction engineer who had been like hanging around the set. And this guy had like a tendency to lurk around the fringes of show business and try

to pick up actresses. One of those Um yeah, he would promise big career opportunities and startom and stuff, but it didn't really couldn't deliver you fairly that kind of life. The boy that I mean this is this is the early days of Hollywood, and I mean, surely that's been happening in all forms of show business since the downtime, but I just, you know, just immediately they're like, hey, let's make movies, and then all these creeps run in

and they're like time to start promising young girls the opportunity. Yeah, so I can sleep with him once and then never see him again, Like it's got to be so hard because if somebody comes up to you and it's like, I can give you the opportunities no one else has like, or you've got to consider it, right sure, because there's a one percent chance that this person would actually do

that for you. And I mean, if you're if you're a good enough scam artist, you can make it look like you really got some connections or some kind of I don't know, some kind of power. And how are you supposed to be able to tell the difference between a real agent and a fake one. At that point in time, it was pretty hard to tell. I think

the real agents were also pretty skiezy. Right. It can be hard now too, But as I understand it, You know, if you're going to be an actor Hollywood, Atlanta, New York, wherever you're going, vet everybody, ye ask questions, Ask them questions, Ask everyone you know questions about this person. Yeah, don't fall for Ricardo hickelone. Don't fall for Ricardo schickelone. We need to have like bumper stickers made. No Siclon is here,

not today sickelone. It might be very nice Hiclone's out there, So I don't want to I know, right, Sorry to any good schickelone's who are promising real opportunities to young women out there in the world. Well, this guy was not a great Chiclonne. He totally conned Ramildon into thinking that he was some power player in Hollywood. Uh. And

they did start sleeping together. One day she found out she was pregnant at like, like it happens when you start sleeping with somebody, and so she went to him basically being like he Ricardo, I got a little bitzza pie in the urban. Let's get maded. And he says, oh no, yes, I think that he looks like Wallouigi. I think it looks like Wallowuigi. And he says, oh no, that's a spicy made the ball. I got a gut, I left my mozzarell and my feetat and I gotta go,

or something like that. You know, I'm sure it was pretty close to what he said and definitely how he said it. And he basically he left her alone to have this baby by herself, and he skaddled off somewhere. Just disclaimer, we love Italy so much. Really, a lot of my family and some of our fondest memories I'm very sorry around Italy. Mario love the Italian people for our super Mario Italian excess. This is just if if if Mario was telling the story of yes, hey, it's good.

This has got to be better than whatever Chris Pratt's gonna do. Right, Sure right, I mean go on. So on September ninety four, Ramilda gave birth to this child. It was Sophia Velani Chiclone. She was born at the Clinica Regina Margherita, which I have translated to the Queen's

Clinic of Basil and Tomatoes. I don't think that's accurate. Um. But Ramilda had to move back with her parents where she could raise this child because obviously she was unmarried, didn't have a lot of prospects, and this wasn't a town called pot Swally, And this is a coastal town just outside of Naples, and Ramilda worked there as a piano instructor. Four years later, Ricardo Chicolone tried to get back together with Romilda and she got pregnant again and

she had a daughter named Maria. Pop quiz for our listeners at home, Dianna, you can be their substitute. Here did Ricardo a use this opportunity to make amends for his earlier behavior Mary Ramilda and accept responsibility for his children, or be deny the kid, leave Ramilda to raise her on her own, and more or less disappear until the family was wealthy and he needed money. Yes, that's the saddest correct answer of all time. Yes, he sucked, he

left um. The family was struggling to survive in pot Swally. This is actually an important harbor town, and they were bombed very heavily during World War Two. At one point, while the family was running to a shelter for cover, shrapnel sent Sophia flying and split open her chin, leaving a lifetime scar. And the family was starving throughout this and and well after. For five years they lived in

long stretches without food or water or electricity. During the famine, Ramilda had to siphon condensation off of a car radiator just to get water for her daughters. Do you think like where you're scraping like fucking drops of dew into a little vial or something that you're just like, have we regressed to cave people or something? Again? Because cool, glad y'all got your war? Yeah, so Ramilda is a complete badass. Obviously, she's making it work. She's scraping the

water off the radiator and keeping everyone alive. And after the war they opened a pub in their live room where Ramilda played piano while Maria sang and Sophia waited tables. So it's pretty innovative. We have an entrepreneur in our midst And as things start to turn around for them, Ramilda decide she wants her daughter to have the opportunities that she did not have, so she moved with the

family to Rome and got Sophia into beauty pageants. Now, Sophia had been small and weak looking after the famine and everything, and kids in her school even nicknamed her studente, which means toothpick. They're like, Sophie, you're looking like a piece off to cheney. But when she turned fourteen, like overnight, she suddenly sprung up. She got super tall and statuesque, and she started to look like, you know, Sophia Laurent, famously beautiful woman. And she won her first beauty pageant year.

The prize was a little cash and some free wallpaper, which she put in her grandparents living room. They're just like whether we got lying around here. You won the beauty pageant. Here's m here's a some walt paper and uh, here's some old bottle caps. I go out in my pocket. Here's a half of Calzona. How much cash? So do I have? Twenty seven dollars? And congratulations. And in nineteen fifty, when Sophia was fifteen, under the stage name Sophia Lazaro,

she won Miss Elegance in the Miss Italia pageants. Oh Miss Elegance. That's pretty good. Yeah, that's pretty good. And shortly after this she and Romilda both started picking up bit parts in films at China Chita, which was this big film studio in Rome started by Italy's own Benito Mussolini. You know, famed film the creator. Yeah, yeah, you know, you know, famed filmmaker Banito Musolini did other stuff, I think,

but that's the main thing. And he actually founded it not just to make propaganda films, although that was definitely definitely part of the reason, but he actually was trying to make Italy. I mean, he was trying to give Italy some industry, some kind of revenue and gross domestic product, and they were trying to be the European answer to Hollywood. Right, that was ninety seven that Mussolini started this film studio, so this is some time later that Sophia is getting

involved in the well. By the time Sophia was sixteen, people in the industry had been pushing her to start taking acting classes, and that same year she entered another beauty pageant and the panel of judges included a thirty

seven year old film producer named Carlo Ponti. Carlo Punty was a lawyer initially, and he used to negotiate contracts for other filmmakers, but this got him interested in producing himself, and by nineteen forty he ended up being a central figure in trying to build up a film industry in Milan.

He even produced a period film that year called Old Fashioned World, which was about this struggle between Italy and Austria in the eighteen hundreds during Italy's unification, and the film was hugely popular because people saw it as as it was a direct and obvious parallel to how the Nazis were treating Italy, and he was even briefly jailed around this time for undermining relations with Nazi Germany. Of course, around here we applaud anyone who undermines relations with Nazi

Way to go, Carlo. Yes, Carlo very heavily anti fascist, was not into it um at a time in Italy where I think you were one of the others. I understand it. Yeah. So in nineteen forty six Carlo married a woman named Juliana Fiestri, and in nineteen fifty they had a daughter named Gwenda Lena. Then in ninety one, as a leading figure in Italy's film industry, he got a phone call from a friend that was like, hey, Carlo, you want to come be the judge for the pretty Ladies?

And he says yes, He goes and he takes on this this you know, honor, to be a judge in this pageant, and he's watching all these ladies come out. He's like, hey, here's a romana, here's romana for the genie, here's uh, here's Roberto Bianco, here's uh, here's Esbrelda, there's the moona whatever. And he's like, yes, yes, see, see

see Lady Linden. And then outsteps Sophia Lazaro and suddenly Carlo sees her and just the moon hits his eye like a big pizza pie, and he just thought that she was the most amazing sixteen year old girl he'd ever seen in his thirty seven years on this planet. Good pretty girl. Uncomfortable start to this romance, not great. Carlo did kind of get obsessed with her, but at first it was all professional. He thought she was just

gonna be the next big thing. He thought she had it, you know, she had that certain something that made a star or whatever, and he figured that the sky was the limit if she just had the right guidance, not a not a shiclone. So he helped her navigate the film industry, and he got her minor roles in more and more movies. She started taking acting classes and rubbing elbows with industry giants, and all the while she's like enthralled by Carlo's knowledge and guidance and kindness. She later

said of him, I felt at home with him. I was terribly young, and he gave me confidence. Each time I did something that he liked, he would always say, you should always do that, And yes, this gave me confidence. He was protective and he took my insecurities away. Yes, he looked and sounded like he would take care of me, which no other man had done. Totally good. I mean, her dad freaking doubt twice left her mom to be scraping water off a car radiat or soya, this is

very very interested in a father figure. Yes, at least at least a male presence. Yeah, that's like comforting and not like adding to your work. And like she's like, what if, what's this guy that like takes care of you and makes life easier? Where's that guy? So yeah, he seems to be that. He was just very affirming and kind and he didn't seem to be trying to get into you know, her pantaloni whatever. And in fact, in n he had a second child with his wife,

a son they called Alex. Would be working out okay, or or they're having a baby to save their marriage. I don't know, it could could go either way. Speculation stage. That's same year, nineteenft three, Sophia is hanging out with Carlo and another producer named Geoffrey Lombardo, and they're all talking about how Sophia can finally just break through and really show everybody what she got, you know, and like any day now we we gotta there's we're right up

at the finish line. We just need to cross it, and they came up with this idea for a name change. Sophia Lazaro was, you know, a bit part actress in Italy. She was That's who you get. If you need somebody to play this small part, you get Sophia Lazaro. She's very funny, she's very pretty. They need a rebrand exactly. They needed something global, a new person. So Lombardo starts thinking, hey, you know that the f and Sophia it's uh, you know,

it's a do Italian. The English speaking people they love a pH telephone, you know, Philosophia. You know, it's always a pH with them. So let's make it Sophia with a pH. And Carlos like, yeah, yeah, that's a good, that's a good. I like this, and Lazaro, this gotta go. It sounds like it sounds like it sounds like something I ordered her at the coffee shop. You know, I'll take a Venti Lazaro. You know. So there's this very

popular Swedish actress at the time named Martha Torrne. So they decide let's spend that name a little bit, and they welcomed to the world a movie star named Sophia Lorent What a thought process that name in. In ninety three, she started her breakout role in a film adaptation of the popular opera Aida, where she played Aida, the Ethiopian princess. And yeah it's bad. I mean, you know, you can look it up, but she's wearing a lot of bronze

and it's not good. Yeah, it's not good. We'll we'll go ahead and blame that on the producers for not making the same effort to make a black actress famous with a part that would be perfect for a black actress. I mean they could have been looking around for that years. Zozzi beats, but no, that puts so much work into making sephil or end famous. They could have put half that effort, you know, just black actress and been like, hey, you should play Aida in this movie. But no, no, no,

they had to. They had to darken sophia En skin very uncomfortable, bad, bad bad, and the singing was dubbed by this superstar Renata Tibaldi, and another actress had actually turned down the part because she didn't want to be dubbed, to which Sophia answered, quote, I couldn't afford to be so proud, that's true. I mean I'm just starting out, You're like, yeah, dubbed me like in my first movie.

At this point, I just need the money. I already got to deal with the black face, you know, like I mean for real, like oh man, Well, speaking of appearances and appropriateness, Sophia started to get a taste at this point for how the film industry is infested with aganistic dick bags, because cameraman started saying, and I'm telling you this is true. I've had a hard time wrapping my brain around it. But cameraman started saying of her that Sophia loren wasn't pretty enough to be a star.

They said her mouth was too wide, and her chin was too broad, and her nose was too big. What Sophia, Lorena just want to make sure everybody knows who were talking about here. And they said she was not attractive enough to be a movie star. And one day Carlo came to her and said, quote, you know, the camera men, they say that your nose is a too long. Maybe you have to touch it a little bit, to which Sophia replied, quote, I don't want to touch nothing on my face because I like in my face. If I

have to change my nose, I'm going back to Potswati. Yes, she just gave him that Italian attitude. She's like, don't you talk about my nose? Okay, And also her nose is small, like she doesn't have she's got a beautiful nose. Yeah, I like your face too, so feel her in. Like yeah, they she said like that everyone was looking for the this French little French turned up nose around that time, and she's like, can you imagine my face with one of those noses? No, I can't because your face is perfect.

Feel her in. That's how they do, though they give you some real unrealistic ship like with Judy Garland, they were just kept being like you need to be thinner, and they weren't that. I mean, they basically want a skeleton and address it's saying, I like people have skin and like fat and from you, like you're literally wasting these women away for nothing, looking for something that can't be a thing, Like that's not anyway. So I'm glad Sophia at least knew that she had a pretty fucking face.

And she was like, you know what, I'm keeping my face. Yeah it is. And she was like if you don't like it, then I'm going home. Yeah, I'll take my nose and I'll leave you know, home where on multiple beauty pagets. But around this time she's nineteen and despite Nosegate, Sophia starts to realize that she is in love with Carlo, and they grew closer and closer until they were practically inseparable,

and soon their affairs started. She felt like nobody really saw her like he did, and she wrote that he saw her quote reserved personality, difficult past, and great longing

to be successful seriously and with passion. Rachel Grebben writes in Propeller magazine that Sophia's passion and intensity is clear in her movies, with her focus and intensity showing a woman who was at a certain level acting as if her life depends on it, and Carlo was her mentor and manager, but he was also incredibly supportive and validating. So you know, it's tough with these age despaired especially when Carlo is clearly a mentor in a mentor position

with her. You know, if their relationship was happening today, there would probably be some kind of conversation around whether or not he groomed her from a young age to fall in love with him or something like that, and that, I mean, I think it would be fair to ask that. But anyway that that will come up again. We'll probably get more into that as we go. But right now they're just in love and they're having a wonderful affair and everything is great and they want to be together.

But they couldn't just run off into the sunset live happily ever after, because even though Carlo's marriage was indeed already falling apart, and he and his wife both amicably wanted to be separated. But Italy, if you haven't heard, is super Catholic. No way, Yeah, some say that, like you know, maybe the most the most Catholic place, and at this time, divorce is very illegal. The Vatican just flat out would not allow it. And Sophia herself was

a very traditional Catholic, not so much religious. She was a religious, but not deeply religious person, but she was a very traditional person, and she also came from a very fractured family and she did not want the same to happen to her. She wanted stability and tradition. They both wanted to be married. Meanwhile, they also both wanted Sophia to take the next step in her acting career

and go to America to make big Hollywood movies. So coming up, we'll find out if Sophia and Carlo managed to get married and the very very famous Hollywood side piece that almost derailed them. So we'll be right back and welcome back to the show. So Carlo and Sophia are going strong, and as much as they tried to keep their relationship out of the spotlight, of course rumors

are flying. Tabloids are desperate it to put them in headlines as often as possible, and you know, just gossip rags because I mean, this is a rising international superstar and a man twenty one years older than her who was already married, so you know, is page six fodder for days and days and days and days. And Carlo actually proposed to Sophia in secret in nineteen fifty four and gave her like a big fat diamond ring. But Sophia was still kind of depressed because she's so desperately

wanted like a legitimate marriage and family. It's like all this secrecy and running around was just not sexy for her. She didn't like that it wasn't the vibe she was going for. But they continued on as best they could

in both their relationship and their careers. Carlo helped Sophia get English speaking lessons, and now she's finally starting to get some real international recognition as a leading lady, and this led to her getting the lead role in the nine movie The Pride and the Passion, opposite two big Hollywood stars, Frank Sinatra and Carrie Grant, And that brings us right into this episode side action. Oh yeah, Frank

Sinatra and Carrie Grant. When I think those names, I think, uh, treating women well and fidelity, you know, really strong moral character constancy. That's what I think of. So this film, The Pride in the Passion is an American Hollywood movie, but they're shooting in Spain. The rumors are that Frank Sinatra wanted to be closer to his wife, Ava Gardner, who was shooting The Sun also rises in Spain at the time, and they were having a rough time in

their marriage. So Frank was like, let's let's shoot in Spain so I can be close to her, maybe try and salvage this thing. Meanwhile, Carrie Grant was, yeah, it sounds great, let's shoot in Spain. Because he was trying to get some distance from his wife, who was his third wife, actress and writer Betsy Drake. Damn funny. One wants to be closer, one wants to be further away. It all worked out great. That's just so Hollywood, isn't it.

So suddenly this two year old Sophia Loren finds herself being charmed and enchanted by Carrie Grant, who is actually thirty years older than her. So he's even older than her than Carlo Pontiez. He's fifty two at this point. She wrote in her autobiography that carry won her over with good manners and excitement and quote a zest for life.

She said it was fortunate that they were staying in two separate hotels because that kept some distance between them, because she was like, I tried to keep a certain distance. She's like, I wasn't trying to get too involved, but I did kind of like this guy. You know, he was very charming. She had this kind of schoolgirl crush on him. And they talked and found out that they had a lot in common. They had a rough upbringing. They were swept up by the film industry. That very

much changed you know who who They were. He actually also changed his name early on to Carry Grant. Do you know, do you know his original name. It's very British. Oh, is it like angle Bird humberd Ink type British Archibald Leech, Archibald Leech. Yeah, that sounds like a kid's book series, like a detective Archibald Leech Archibald Leeches. Yes, totally. And he sold everything by asking a single quick. Yeah. He

was a London stage actor before going to Hollywood. He was Archibald Leech in England and then they were like that's not going to work over here. Think what's the most American name you can think of? How about Carry Grant. We'll give you two men's names, Carry and Grant. Carrie Grant said that sometimes he felt his on screen persona started to infect his personality. He once said, quote, I pretended to become a certain type of man on screen,

and I became that man in life. I became Carry Grant, which makes more sense that it's not even his real name. Like he's like, I'm Archibald Leech from London and now I'm Carry groan out. That's totally different. Yeah, he's like I turned into that, you know, he always played like playboys and wealthy men and you know, you know, just shelling out cash and sailing on yachts and stuff, and he's like, I turned into that guy. Kind of it kind of shows, you know, Hollywood can can can screw

people up in all kinds of different ways. I mean, it can make a really normal person into kind of a LEAs bag. That's true and well, and it kind of shows that you do have to sort of play a character in order to operate in Hollywood. Even just in normal life and everyday interactions, you still have to be carry Grant or whomever you are, and like I can really skew ship. You know they talk about like

cops going undercover and getting too getting into deep. You know, it changed their personality and now they're one of the Buffio guys or whatever. But like you don't ever think about that with like actors who really or or anyone famous who literally has to have a different personality in order like a public persona, And it might kind of like take over and Glomanta what used to be there? Happened to me? Oh yeah, yeah, I used to be very different than the character that hosts this show. But

since we've started I really found myself morphing into him. Yeah, what's different? Oh you know, um, I sit down a lot more, that's it. But yeah. But so Sophia at this time is so vulnerable. I mean she could still barely speak English at this point. I mean this was her first English speaking movie. So actually her lines were written out phonetically on q car for her to read while they were filming, so that she could get it,

you know, pronunciations right and stuff. So he's over here playing Carry Grant in real life, a handsome playboy, handing out expensive gifts and stuff, you know, and she's feeling kind of out of her elements in the middle of this Hollywood set, trying to speak a language she doesn't speak, you know. So of course she's turning to him for comfort, you know. Of course she's she's like, yes, let me, you know, curl up in this powerful man's embrace, ye, and let him take care of me. So the pride

and the passion raps shooting. But Carry is not ready to say goodbye to Sophia. His wife, Betsy Drake, had written a screenplay called Houseboat, which they were supposed to star in together. Betsy and Carry instead Carry Grant pulls this ship. He goes to the producers and he says, I want Sophia in that part instead, and they end up rewriting the script, recasting his wife with Sophia, and ultimately Betsy got zero credit as a screenwriter. Yes, yes, children,

who that's right. This is a bad man name. I gotta say. I love Carrie Grant, the actor, I mean arsenic and old. Lace is one of the funniest movies, and he is amazing in it, but he sucks, not good with women. And again it's you could go back and say, well, look what this industry turned him into, but you know there's a certain level of personal responsibility as well. Sure, so anyway, they're shooting this movie house Boat,

and their affair starts heating up. In fact, the director of house Boat, Melville Shovelson, later complained that Carrie and Sophia's sexual tension made the movie really difficult to shoot, and the Hollywood gossip columns were like all over this, so they're all up in their face all the time too. When Sophia first arrived in Hollywood, there was a huge reception in her honor at this like hot fancy restaurant, you know, you know, the hot spot or whatever, and

the Papa Rozzie was swarming around. Everyone's trying to get a glimpse of this new Italian bombshell. But a more established actress, Jane Mansfield, showed up in this ridiculously low cut dress, like it is barely clear in the nipples. Fair it is very low, yet she's like spilling out all over the place. And there's this famous picture of the two of them with Jane laughing. Sophia is sitting next to her and like totally side eyeing her cleavage.

It's an amazing picture, schoogle Jane Mainsfield and Sophia Loren. Her face says it all. Yes, she Sophia later said, quote, she came right from my table. She knew everyone was watching. She sat down, Look at the picture. Where are my eyes? I'm staring at her nipples because I'm afraid they're going to come onto my plate. I'm so frightened that everything in her dress is gonna blow boom and spill all over the t able. You can see it. You can see that in her eyes. You can see it. She's like,

it's not the kind of attention I was looking for. Tonight, but historians agree that this was totally a calculated move by Jane Mansfield, who at the time, you know, was like an on genue. So to Jane, she's like, Oh, here comes this busty sex object and she's going to snatch up all the roles, the busty sex object roles that I want for summers, even though Sophia had all previously only been in comedies, so she wasn't like an ingenue leading woman at this point in her career. Vanity

Fair rights to quote. Jane Mansfield was there to prove that there were already homegrown sex goddesses in residence, and Sofia could tell that she was trying to kind of like funk with her a little bit. And Sofia also knew that in Hollywood, Italian people were only waiters or gangsters, so she she knew she was up against some real obstacles. Yeah, one being Jane Mansfield's tips and another and another being racism,

right raxinophobia at least. Yeah, So they start shooting house Boat and Carrie Grant is really trying to make this thing work with Sophia. He starts suggesting to her that they should pray together. For guidance about whether they should leave their respective partners for each other. One letter he sent her read quote, Sophia, you'll be in my prayers. If you think and pray with me for the same thing and purpose, all will be right and life will

be good. And he sends her flowers almost every day, and she found in him something very similar to what attracted her to Carlo, this guiding, thoughtful, older man who had turned his focus entirely towards her well being. Before she arrived in America to shoot house Boat, he wrote to her saying, this is probably the most important year of your life. Spend it thoughtfully, dear face. In these next months you will create lasting impressions by which you'll

be judged and remembered all your life. And he gave her two gold bracelets and told her she should always wear them because they would keep her safe. But you know what, she actually took his advice to heart because she knew she was going to be judged all her life for this. Yeah, just like you said. Yeah. Carry. Grant got closer and closer with her. Eventually they started talking about marriage. There's rumors that he proposed on set

on the set of houseboat, but Sophia has since denied that. Um. But ultimately she turned him down because she still wanted to marry Carlo Ponti. She said a lot about this over the years, and part of her decision was the threat of scandal. She said, quote the American press had been very cruel to Ingrid Bergmann when she left her husband for Italian director Roberto Rossellini, and I was terribly afraid of what the reaction would have been if I had left Italy, and her Italian home was all so

a very big part of her choice as well. Um, because Carrie Grant, you know, she's sort of like, if she's marrying Carrie Grant, she's sort of like, now I'm an American. I live in Hollywood with Carry Grant, and that's it. But if she was with Carlo, she would still have a very strong tide of her home country. They would probably live in Italy, you know. So it felt almost seems like a choice between not only two men, but also two different lifestyles, two different parts of the globe,

like a lot of different different considerations. And yeah, she said in Hollywood she was really fatigued by the film circuit there. She said all she ever talked about with cinema, with everyone she knew. She said, quote, I missed my country steeped in history, with humanity, ordinary people just didn't seem to exist in Hollywood. She told Vanity Fair quote Carlo was Italian, he belonged to my world. I know

it was the right thing for me to do. So she gave carry Grant the boot, although they did remain close friends throughout their lives, so he didn't take it too personally. Reports Worth that he was a little upset when she found out that she and Carlo were getting married, but he's you know, he was okay. They were friends, and she decided for sure, yes Carlo, I need to marry him. I'm going to make this life happen. But

not so fast. There's still Carlo's marriage the Juliana Fiastria to worry about, and they would have to go toe to toe with the Pope himself to make it work. What a disasty, I see. So we are going to pick a fight with the pope right after this commercial break. How do you like that? Sponsors? We're going to pick a fight with and we're back and ready to take on another supreme religious leader in the name of love. How we do on the show, Well, they keep getting

in the way. I right, bunch of really just leaders in the way of that one. Tons also popes actually that one. Well, in nineteen fifty seven, Carlo thought he had it all figured out. His lawyers were working overtime now to get them married and speculation station. I think maybe this is because, like you know, Carrie Grant is out there proposing to her, like, come on, we gotta get this movie in. Like I think she's gonna be in a movie with like Humphrey Bogart next, I don't know, Like,

hurry up, guys, you gotta lock this down. He's like, that's so great, honey, I'm so excited about the move. And he immediately turns around. He's like, how do you up, guys, It's the time to get married. She's getting some really hot parts. It's some really hot guys. Have you seen the meat. I'm a twice at age and half her height. So his lawyers come back and they're like, sir, we found a loophole. We can divorce you and Juliana and marry you and Sophia all in Mexico. You don't even

need to be there. Oh, perfect, yeah, and he's like see see yes, spaghassi, sprigarci spearci. That's Italian for hurry up. According to Google Translate, takes longer to say sprigarci. S got we got a sprigarcy with this episode, so they just do it. It's September, right before Sophia's twenty five birthday, and neither of them had even gotten the official word that the marriage had gone through before they read it

in a gossip column that next morning. So, honey, if you heard were marriage, yeah right here on page three. So even Carlo was surprised and finally happened. They returned to Italy and they go to Capri to celebrate both occasions, their wedding and her twenty five birthday. I'd love to go to Capri to celebrate my freaking birthday. Well, we did go to Capri to celebrate our freaking wedding. That's that's something that's true. In fact, let's take a little

break here and reminisce. Let's take a little reminiscence break about our amazing honeymoon where we got to spend a day in on the Isle of Capri. It's true because we were staying on Sorrento. Sorrento one of my favorite places in the world ever. Get to go there, really gorgeous. And we went to Pompey one day and then another day we went to Capri. Capri, took a little boat ride out. We had this bed and breakfast we were staying in. It was incredible and they were so nice.

Barbara maybe the best cappuccino I ever had. Um so good. The breakfast was so good every morning, and she was kind of a grumpy Polish lady, but she was awesome, perfect. It was amazing. And uh, we got to take a boat ride out to Capri, which is this little island off the coast of Naples, and it's incredible. It's just this tiny little village. Um these cliffs we got to

we got to swim. The water was amazing. It was cold, was cold because it was the middle of October, but well yeah, but it was so clear, god, beautiful color. I mean, you had to get in because the Mediterranean what we're not get in were I remember a shivering in the water being like, but we have to swim in the really enjoyed this, damn it also just to tangent off on this little bit. Capri is known for their lemon cello, which is a lemon flavored liqueur. It's

very thick and sweet and um. Well, Danna wanted to tell us about lemon cello. I mean, I vomited that I didn't vomit, but I really do hate The taste of it is just awful, heinous. I don't understand the point of it. Horrible in every way. The Americans that we were on the boat trip with, at one point we all had lunch together and one of them bought a round of lemon cello shots for everyone or whatever. It's like a treat forever, so nice, you know, whatever, we took it. I was like, I was like, I

am so grossed out. I think I had to finish yours. I think so because I was trying to be polite, and I'm like, you know, for me, it's like if someone gets you something, you kind of have to finish it. Like it's really rude to not so I was like trying so hard. I was so gross And we get back on the boat and everything's great, and the captain takes us back to to our port, you know, so

into Sorrento or whatever. To get on the van back to where we go, wherever we're staying, and as we pull up to port, He's like, and now a complimentary shot of lemon cello for everyone. Diana just turns green. I think I might have done like a sitcom thing, right straight up through whatever into the ocean. They have done that, literally, But it was such an amazing time. I would definitely drink lemon cello again. If that was the cost of going to Catherine, I would do it.

I really, if I could devote my self to a cause, it would be to provide travel to everyone. I mean, everybody should be able to travel. You know, we were able to do it for this honeymoon because we did like a honey fund or we just collected money instead of gifts, and that was and that was everything we wanted. We didn't need stuff. We just wanted to take a trip, and we're able to take this amazing trip. And I just wish everyone could do that, because it's not fair

that people can't. And this if if you, if you get the chance um to ever go to Italy, I I highly recommend Sorrento. I loved it. It is it is a beach town. I mean, not like Florida. It is, but it is very heavily Yeah, it's very heavily frequented by British tourists especially, but it's because it's remarkable. It's gorgeous. The food is some of the best food I've ever

eaten in my life. I'm still thinking about this caprice salad like a salad, you guys, I'm dreaming of it and message us so will give you the name of the of the B and B that we stayed at. We gotta look it up. But yeah, they were and the rooms were so beautiful. Yeah that that was just an amazing trip. And yeah, for us, we didn't need dishes and stuff, we'd already gived together for a few years and stuff, And it was the greatest gift that we could have gotten because we had such an incredible

start to our marriage. It was such I guess you could say a life changing trip in a lot of ways, because it was just so. It was long and involved. We had to plan it out really well and work really well together. There were times when there was no one else spoke English, so it's just the two of us.

You may have heard. I think I told the story before that my phone was stolen on date two of our thirties, a time in Europe, so we had to learn how to work with one phone between us, and which meant we didn't spend a lot of time on the phone, which was nice. Yeah, and again it's just life long memories that we have together now that that just cannot be replaced, you know, unlike a piece of china or a pot or a corquitter or something which

eventually you will replace with something else. So anyway, I would just say, if you're hesitating and you want to do something like that, just do it and explain that to anyone who feels badly about it. It really is just it's so worth it. It's so worth it. Yeah, it's really really amazing and that was an amazing trip. And we will never stop talking about it. Yes, we will never stop, but we're gonna at least pause talking

about it so we can get back to the story. Yeah, the marriage we really care about, which is Sophia Loren and Carlo Ponty. So yeah, they had no official like white dress ceremony, but legally Sophia was finally married to the man she loved ya triumph, and they celebrated in their private bungalow with a nice dinner, and they finally relaxed into this true like honeymoon phase of their relationship.

But it was all cut short because a month later they learned that Pope John the twenty three, who was widely seen as a very liberal pope, said they're divorce and marriage would not be recognized. The official Vatican newspaper posted an article that the marriage of an anonymous, quote young beautiful Italian film actress, So everyone was like, let

me put two and two together. It's Jake Jollenhall. They said the marriage was illegal and if they lived together they could be arrested, and the pope threatened them with excommunication from the church and said they faced eternal damnation. So, despite finally getting the marriage she always wanted, Sofia said this was the saddest day of her life, which, of course it is if you're like, I'm just in love with someone and he's not in love with her anymore, but you want us all to be unhappy or else

have to go to hell? Right? Thank wow? I feel so comforted by religion, my comfort. Thank goodness. I devoted my life to this comfort of religion, and then in steps this week's villain of the week, Luisa Brambila. Luisa Luis is Nope, just to somebody, She's just this random housewife from Milan. But she felt like this kind of seedy promiscuity was gonna tear the country apart, and under Italian law, any citizen may bring criminal charges against any

other Italian citizen. So she went ahead, took it upon her own damn self to file bigamy charges against the Pontis what a karen. Everyone was like another Lauisa walked in today manager asking for the Pope. I'd like to speak to your pope please, I have some charges to file. So Carlo and Sophia were effectively forced into exile. They had to leave the country because they were having these charges leveled against them, like serious charges, so they moved

around for years. They would rent how is in France or in Switzerland, and Sophia missed Italy so badly that Carlo would drive her to the top of a pass in the Swiss Alps just as she could look down over her home country and get a glimpse at it. It kind of makes me want to cry heartbreaking. She loved Italy. I mean, she had already turned down other opportunities so that she could be in her home with

the person she loved. That's all she ever wanted. In nineteen sixty two, Ponti's lawyers found out that the Mexican marriage that they had wasn't legal there either, because they hadn't had any witnesses at the proxy wedding, so so it wasn't legal in Mexico. Yeah, like this, this was totally invalid, okay. And this actually kind of worked in their favor, I mean sort of like you know, if you can call it that, because their marriage was annulled and they were able to move back to Rome because

the bigamy charges weren't really there. But they still had the threat of arrest if they were living together, so they had to sneak around. They had to spend nights at Sophia's mother, Romilda's apartment, or they had to rent homes under secret names. They had to come and go separately to events. They couldn't be seen together alone in public. Ever, if they were going to the same dinner, one of them would have to show up first and the other would have to hang back and come later, and they'd

have to leave at separate times. They just if at any point it looked like they were a couple in public, they could be arrested. That's nuts. And they lived like this for four years, which is I mean, it sounds intolerable for even one year, like four years so frustrating. She later said, quote, I wanted to be his wife and have his children. We had done the best the law would allow to make it official, but they were calling us public sinners. We should have been taking a honeymoon.

But all I remember is weeping for hours. It's awful. So sad woman. All she wanted was this wedding, and now she's, you know, in tears, right and again literally like, no one is getting hurt here by the divorce and remarriage. The only people getting hurt are by you being so strict about human nature. So Pope John died of stomach cancer in nineteen sixty three, so maybe maybe, But his successor, Paul the sixth, reiterated the same outrageous accusations against them.

Two one to Pope Stone, before you condemn your marriage. Oh oh well, I'm sorry. Yeah, you've all got that in your head for the next fifteen days. Sorry, I feel like someone's gonna lodge a bigamy charges against me.

So yeah, they just really did not know what to do, because I mean, one pope is something, and then you get a second pope and like, actually no, I still think this sucks, like what the l and Sofia was worried she'd never get the happily married life she always wanted, that they'd always have to live in these separate lodgings and do all this weird ship to begether. But then help came from a strange ally Julianna Fiastre, Carlos's ex wife or current wife if you asked the pope. Yeah,

and yeah, she walks in. She's like, look, here's what we're gonna do. We're all going to move to France, so we're going to get French citizenship. Then we're going to get a realist divorce. Y'all can get a realist marriage.

Packing your ship, let's go. Yeah, she had, she had the plan, and then she with them, all three of them moved to France and applied for French citizenship, and sure enough, French President George personally approved their citizenship and France granted Carlo and Julianna an official, real life, in person divorce, and then in nineteen sixty six, in a small discreete ceremony officiated by the Mayor of Sevre, Sophia and Carlo were wed once again, and this time all

the teas were crossed, all the eyes were dotted at all the pizzas were pepperoni. Uh. It was universally recognized. There's nothing anybody could say or do. They were finally able to return to Italy in peace, and now they're married. They're happily married. They had two sons together, Carlo Ponti Jr. In nineteen sixty eight and Eduardo Ponti in nineteen seventy three, and both of them Carlo and Sophia continued to dominate

in the film industry. In nineteen sixty Sophia was offered the role of the daughter in an Italian film called Two Women, which Carlo was producing. It was a mother daughters story about women in a war torn village in Italy, something obviously Sophia could very easily relate to. Literally was a daughter in a war torn village in Italy. I think she's going through the script like m this isn't accurate, right,

it's actually a car radiator. Yeah right now. But the woman who was playing the mother, who was an older, famed Italian actress, she backed out because Sophia Lauren was too tall. She felt like it would look ridiculous if she was looking up at her daughter for the whole movie. She thought people wouldn't take it seriously and just be funny. And she's like, you know this, the mother is supposed to be fifty, the daughter is supposed to be maybe in her late twenties or so, and she totally withdrew

from the project. On her way out, she joked, you hot to get Sophia to play the mother, and the producers were like, yeah, that's a good idea, So soundsppen to go to me, and they rewrote the part as a younger, thirty year old widow with an eighteen year old daughter and Sophia as the mother. Now. Yeah, and remember she's mostly known for comedies, so this was also her big dramatic turn. And you know, the bombing raids,

the starvation, being trapped in bomb shelters. I mean, Sophia is basically playing her own mother, and she drew from her experience to pull off an incredible performance. Sophia herself later said, quote, before I made Two Women, I was a performer. Afterward, I was an actress. And she was nominated for an Academy Award for Best Actress. She was up against Audrey Hepburn for Breakfast at Tiffany's and Natalie Wood for Splendor in the Grass, I mean, among other nominees. Yeah, exactly.

So she basically was like, oh, I'm very honored, but like, there's no way I'm gonna win. I know. That'd be like me walking in today and they're like, okay, so you're nominated, but you're up against you know, Meryl Streep and Lupete and Youngo and I'd be like, all right, well, hey, how did I get this category? What did we all compete in? And be I'll be staying home that night, thank you very much. I'll just go ahead and go

thank you. So and yeah, she was kind of like, it's going to take a lot for me to travel to California from Italy for you know, the awards ceremony. So she skipped it, saying I didn't think I was gonna win. If I win, I'm going to faint. And I think I better faint at home than on stage. She stayed up late waiting for a call about the results, knowing full well that it wouldn't happen, but she had the time change wrong in her head. Totally appreciate that.

It's so so hard for me to calculate. I cannot tell you how many dumb mistakes I've made. So she went to sleep at six am, thinking, no news is no news. You know, it went out just exactly how I thought one of those other amazing actresses one and oh well, yeah, they were airing the awards in Italy at the time, so she just had to wait for word. But shortly after she fell asleep, the phone rang and

it was Carrie Grant saying, Darling, have you heard? And Sophia Learn became the first woman ever to win a Best Actress oscar for performance in a Foreign Language film. Amazing, very cool. Yeah that was another factor too. I'm sure she was like, well, yeah, I'm nominated, which is great, but I'm it's a you know, they never you never win if you're not in an English speaking movie. And then she did it. She did it, but you know, their life wasn't all glitz and glamor from here on out.

They were both having huge success, but scandals followed them too. In nineteen seventy five, Carlos survived a kidnapping attempt when his car was ambushed and riddled with bullets. Oh my god. Yeah, I don't know a lot about this, but I did read that apparently this was a period of time that Italians referred to as years of lead, which I took to me and I guess there's just a lot of gunfire going on. Um. A second attempt to kidnap him

was made later that year, also unsuccessful. So twice in one year somebody tried to kidnap this guy, just I assume because he's worth a lot of money, right. I was about to say, it's like that double edged sword or you like, yeah, you have money. Oh no, no, I have something someone wants to see. Yeah. So Carlo was also charged with smuggling illegally obtained archaeological artifacts and prized artwork, including Picasso's in the nineteen seventies, and his

villa and possessions were all taken away. He was a collector, but they were like, some of these collections ain't legit, so they snatched it all up. They took it away. He was tried in absentia because he was living in France at the time, and they sentenced him to four years. But after some rumored deals with the Italian government is kind of what people think happened, he ended up getting everything back and it was all okay, water under the bridge.

Oh no, these this sarcophagus actually is yours. Now that we take a closer look, it turns out there you have the certificate right here. What the surprise, I didn't see it. It was right here under this big stack of money. I see what was covering it up? Is all this money. Italian government, known for their smooth and legit operation in the nineteen seventies. Sophia had actually been tried for complicity in this same case, but she was acquitted,

although she got a little trouble herself. She ended up serving seventeen days out of a thirty days sentence in jail in two for some light tax evasion. It was some she hadn't paid on some earnings that she made in the early eighties, and and take kindly to that. It's a little little Shakira action going on there. She

got found out in the Panama papers or something. Ultimately, though, Sophia and Carlo were incredibly happy together, and they remained faithfully married until his death in two thousand and seven at ninety four years old. I know, right, that's nice.

I lived in nineties. That's pretty good. And one time, in nineteen sixty seven, just a year after their marriage, she was filming a movie with Marlon Brando when he walked up and tried to get handsy with her, and Sophia later told the story saying, quote, I turned in all tranquility and blew his face like a cat, stroked the wrong way, and said, don't you ever dare to do that again? Never again, she said. As I pulverized

him with my eyes, he seemed small, defenseless. He never did it again, but it was difficult working with him after that. She was like, yeah, I made Marlon Brando feel small somehow and turns out to not help. He's like, I'm so sorry. I shouldn't have done that. I should you. I thought you want one day, and that day may never come. In the welcome deal with an apology, we can't pass up an opportunity. Godfather, boys, I could have been a contender. You were already married and I didn't.

We didn't wait for consent. Could have been a consenter. I could have had Glass. So in terms of Carlo, like his history is a little more straightforward. You can just look at his IMDb page and see all of his contributions to cinema. I mean his his life history is just a history of film in a lot of ways. He produced Felini's Lastrada and David Lean's Doctor Hivago, huge movies.

After his death, Italian cultural Minister Francesco to Telli said, quote Ponti embodied a great and courageous pushed to innovate, promoted unforgettable talents, and enjoyed huge success. And Sofia continued to expand her career into that Isn't three. She won a Grammy Award for Best Spoken Word Album for Children in her reading of Peter and the Wolf. She's also a skilled chef, and she has written no less than

three cookbooks, and I want them. I did not know about this, but I want to make all of Sophia Loran's recipes. I'm sure a vegetarian version of them, because I bet they're loaded with beef, but I bet as good as hell. She said, nobody beat her mother's eggplant, which I bet. I bet Romilda made a hell of an egg plant. And I don't like eggplant, but if I liked it, I bet it's Romilda's. Absolutely, that would

make me absolutely. She said that the only thing she ever regrets in her life is never getting her white wedding. Sofia said she's still dreams of wearing a white dress and walking down the aisle because that was just the one thing she never got her. Her weddings were very unceremonious in a lot of ways. They're very private and small, and it was what she needed. But she didn't get that that wedding day she had been dreaming of, you know. But she never doubted that Carlo was the right man

for her. When asked in two thousand nine, two years after his death, if she would ever marry again, she said, quote, no, never again. It would be impossible to love anyone else. And Sophia loren As of this recording is alive and well, she's living, I believe in Switzerland. She is eighty seven years old. She's got an IMDb credit from last year, so she's doing it. She's she's out there and she's amazing. I'd also live in Switzerland, by the way. By the way,

I would also live in Switzerland. So an incredible epic romance spanning continents and just like you know, defying religious authoritarianism and all of these conventions. Yeah. We we dabbled a little earlier in the age difference, which of course is something to be said, didn't didn't matter as much when he was ninety four and she was seventy three. But but there is definitely a question there about like you know, he was, he was a middle h dude

more or less. I mean, he was in his late thirties and he met a sixteen year old and was like, I'm going to start teaching you all the ins and notes of the business. I mean you're almost thirty seven. Yeah, and you I mean, if you met a sixteen year old right now, I would I would leave because I don't you know, I don't understand teenagers. I certainly wouldn't offer to give one guidance. I'd be terrible for that, right.

You'd be like, you should really get some guidance from someone else, someone who's uh both trained and authorized to give you a guidance. Just not me, not I but what can we say. They were extremely happy together, they fought very hard to stay together their whole lives. Yeah, so it comes to a point where it's very difficult because you want to take talk and and kind of go, well, what pressures were brought to bear on someone? You know?

Were they broken down by this person and made vulnerable and then therefore he was able to swoop in and be the only safety or something, you know what I mean, like that kind of cornering of someone. Did he take advantage of the fact that she needed a father figure and someone to you know, to show her the way? Yeah, But it also is hard to invalidate someone's love. And some people do fall in love inconcruously all the time.

And sometimes its age, and sometimes it's culture totally different cultures or religions or something, you know what I mean. That seem insurmountable, but you fall in love and then you find a way to surmount. And knowing people who have suffered at the hands of older especially young girls who dated older men and were traumatized for life by it,

whether you know that was the man's intention or not. Uh, you know, I think what I take from these stories is you've got to be really skeptical and cautious about these age gaps. But also sometimes people love each other and they're happy, and that's all that matters. It's true, And I mean, he's dead, and she could be saying now like he's dead, I can tell ever the world the truth or whatever, and she's not. She's not traumatized

for life. She still remembers him very lovingly, fondly and everything. So it feels it seems like it was, you know, pretty on the up and up. It seems like as much as it could be. He never threw acid in her face. Well you know, you know, our bar gets kind of low sometimes. But I hope that you all enjoyed this story. I hope you found it as kind of fascinating and beautiful as I did. I left, I didn't know anything about Sephia Lauren oh me either. I

just knew, you know, Sophia Laurent. I think the first thing I saw in was grumpy er old men. She was a romantic interest in that. Lari's kind of a fem faytale. I think in that one, I don't remember it too well, but I never I didn't think about that. But yeah, yeah, and you know, and you just know who she is, Like you know who Marilyn Monroe is or something. Right, this is a famous pretty lady. That's

what I know about her. So it's cool to like learn all this crazy background about her childhood beings so difficult and all this stuff, Like that's really amazing. What an interesting lady, really interesting life. I think that's part of it too. You know, sometimes we're really sold on someone who's just like, oh, you're a pretty person who lives as a celebrity. Everything has been given to you

on a silver platter. And you know the reality is that people have way more dimension than that, almost always, and you know, when you start to dig in and learn about them, you never know what you're gonna find, and you might be really fascinated and and empathize with them. I I've you know, look, no doubt that uh nets scale Sophia Urn probably had a easier life in a lot of ways than either of us or most of our listeners will ever have because she had, you know,

access to so much. But at the same time, like she also suffered in ways that I can't imagine, and struggled and fought hard to get to where she was well and it's just like getting rich. You know, You're like, hey, I'm rich. Now I have something people want to steal. It's sort of like, oh, it's so great to be beautiful. People like pretty people and they want to help them. But also now I have something that can be exploited, that can be used against me. I mean, just and everything,

everything has its its other side of its coin. I guess I feel that every day I met with that struggle. You know, I'm wasted on audio. I have a face for movies. Damn it. I want to be sixty tall one day. One day, we'll get you there. Yeah, did you see that? Similu and Barry Kyogan, however you say his last name? Who plays Drew Wig in the Eternals. Both of them, years and years ago tweeted, hey, Marvel

put me in a movie. Wasn't as specific characters was specifically for sure, Yeah, but this guy just said to put me in a Marvelin movie. And now he's Drew Big in the internals. Okay, well, I guess I need to tweet put me in a marvel I know. Well, now it's like buying a collectible, you know, like once everyone does, and it's not worth anything anymore. Got to do it before anyone thinks about it. I really I

just want the I just want the routine. I just want the nutritionists and the and the personal trainers right and everything. I want to be beaten into submission until I have, you know, until I look like I's gonna say Camille on Jiohnny, But I'll never look like Camil. Yeah, there's quite a few steps between you. And honestly, you know what this happened to me this week? Um, I was command know that that still never has and never

will happen. Know what happened to me was I had a I had a bit of a rough patch because for for years since ant Man, I've been saying, you know what my ideal body type, it's just Paul Rudd. He keeps it tight, he's in shape. It's not Chris Hemsworth. That's absurd and takes a full time devotion and is unrealistic of anyone to try and achieve. But Paul Rudd I can do. And then he made him sexiest man alive. And I'm like that, you know what, you just raised the bar Now I can't It's just you know what

I mean? It made it seem less attainable. Now he's like, whose body do you want? Oh? Just the sexiest man Alive's body? Great, So now I gotta Now I'm like, okay, maybe you know Mark Ruffalo is still a pretty good bar too, Gruffalo. He's in shape, but it's not it's not ridiculous. Yeah, just dark. Yeah, like that might be where I am right now. I'm not you are, maybe so he might have gotten shape for always be my maybe. Well, look, before we get too into ranking the bodies of the

men in the Marvel Cinematic universe. Gross, where's their growth? We should probably get out of here. That's true. So thank you so much for tuning in for this episode. I hope you loved it. Please, As always, we love to hear your thoughts, your feedback. If you ever met Sophia Loren, please tell us us. Um that would be amazing. Yeah. You can reach out by email to Romance at iHeart media dot com yes, or you can find us on the social media's, specifically Twitter and Instagram. I'm at oh great,

it's Eli. I'm at Dianamite Boom, and you can find the show at ridic Romance. Don't forget to rate and review and all that good stuff. Yes, we hope to hear from you soon, and we will see you with another hot and sixty episode later this week. Can't wait. Love you by so long. Friends, It's time to go. Thanks so listening to our show, Tell your friends the neighbor's uncles, and dance to listen to a show Ridiculous Roll Dance m