I feel like everyone in the eighteen sixties sounded like sounded like Abraham Lincoln little because this is what Abraham Lincoln sounded like, and that's what he sounded like in the Bill and Ted movie. So that score and seven minutes ago. Ultimate personification of Abraham Lincoln, besides the man himself obviously, was that Bill and tedform. Yeah, suck a. Daniel day Lewis, Yeah, Daniel day Lewis watched Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure on Loop for months preparing for his role.
He lived and breathed as Abraham Lincoln, specifically from Bill and he spent a lot of time with the mall. Yeah, he went to the mall giving history reports for Stoner's uh the other voice. I feel like for this time period, it was embodied by Kevin Klein when he played Ulysses S. Grant in the historical non fiction piece Wild Wild West. Do you think it would be worth it to revisit Cowboys and Aliens? Because I wanted that to be way
more fun and it just wasn't. Folks. This episode just changed to me talking about cowboys and aliens because here's the thing, Because here's the thing that movie had every single thing going for it. There's only two movies where I feel like failed this spectacularly by their setups. Because Cowboys and Aliens, you're you're done, the movie is done. All you need is the title and it's and it's
ready to go. And they somehow took that movie, put Daniel Craig in it, put Walton Goggins in it, and somehow it's actually kind of slow and dull, and it's like they couldn't make up their minds. If they were like gonna really wow, us would be like, I know it's called Cowboys and Aliens, but it's actually really good. And you know what, it's Cowboys and Aliens. This is just can't be nonsense. It's like they were lost somewhere in between those two and couldn't find a good movie
out of it. That the most the biggest spread between how good a movie should have been and how bad it was was Assassin's Creed. The Game is a movie that you play the stories there, it's totally fine, it would make a great movie. Then you get Maryann coat Yard and you get Jeremy Irons, and then you top it all off with Michael Fastbender. Three Absolute Our House actors and it was garbage. It was I don't I'm sorry that was rude to garbage. It was so bad?
Why garbage everywhere? Why was that movie so bad? Are there any good video game movies? Yes, there's a good video game movie. Well there's a first of all super Mario Brothers. First of all Super Mario Brothers. Super Mario Brothers, look y'all? Sometimes was I turned to Diana. I was like, have you ever seen the old Super Mario Brothers movie? And she was like no, And I was like, it's so bad, Like it's renowned for it's badness and I loved it as a kid, but let's watch it because
it's so cheeseball. And we had to watch it. And I was like, I love Bob Hoskins, right, whatever he wants to do, Sure, I will watch this terrible film absolutely. And we had to find it on YouTube in like sections like you had to watch like eight minutes at a time something. Yeah. I was so here and like we sit down, we're just ready to laugh at this movie. And I think, like thirty minutes in, both of us were just like why is this good? I kept looking. I was like, okay, he told me it was bad.
I'm like really having a good time watching this. I think it's a good movie, and am I like way off? And then you looked at me were like, this, actually it's good. It's ahead of its time because it was the gritty reboot before there were gritty reboots. But it's still fun. It's not dour, it's not brooding. It's a it's an invention, like it's a total it's not a
super Mario Brothers movie. It's so different. It's just taking elements from Super Mario Brothers and making this weird nineties techno sci fi movie that has no right to be as good as it is. But I think it's just it's such a ridiculous swing that you're like, there's no way this is going to hit. And then they hit it, and he's just like, why did this work? Enjoyable? I had a good time. I don't know why, man you. John Laguizamo also just a class He's good and everything.
Dennis Hopper didn't know what the hell he was doing there, but he nailed it. OK. He was like whatever, I'm still going to bring it out, Dennis. Those are pretty much Prince of Prussia. No, well, we didn't see that. We didn't, But did we did? You know? Yeah? But no everyone, Yeah, Street Fighters, Good, Assassin's Greets, Garbage, uncharted, We haven't seen then either. Yeah, it's true. And this is like a lot of this is hearsay, I suppose from the critics. But I know that it did not
get good reviews. Angry birds, you know, didn't catch that one somehow, for some reason, didn't go to that. Well, one day, I'll we'll do a movie review podcast. Um, what the world is crying out for? Ye, there just aren't enough movie review podcasts out there, not enough people talking about media. So one day, but it is not this day. Um, this day. We're here for a fun story.
But um, you know what we haven't done in a hot minute is reach into this big, overflowing mailbag we have and read some of these awesome emails that we've been getting from our listeners. So I think that it's time for a mailco awesome. This email came in a couple of weeks ago from a listener named Sarah Gilbert. Hi, Sarah, thanks for reaching out. Hello. We're very excited to get this email. Just really warmed our hearts and I think
it will for y'all too. She starts off by saying, Hey, y'all, I love the show and I listened to every episode, but I'll admit when I saw Pandemic Love Stories, it took me a while to listen, mainly because it hit really close to home. And that's because Sarah and her fiance we're going to get married in March of but of course we don't need to tell you or anyone in the world. One in the world and their venue closed.
Sarah said she had handmade all of her decorations, flowers, and centerpieces out of paper over their year and a half engagement. So props to Sarah. That sounds crazy to me. I'm not a crafter, though, that's I would I find that. I think I would go in state if I try to do that, But I bet they are so cute. So her first instat Cart order of the Pandemic was for big plastic storage tubs for all of these decorations that she had, like probably got a million paper cuts.
Oh my god, I know, right, She said, I had originally planned to surprise my husband by booking the Carolina Panthers mascot surper to make an appearance at the reception. Great name, so exciting too if you that's your team and the mascot shows up and his name is Surper. She goes, on the first night after we got the news of the venue had closed, I was sobbing into my husband's chest and I blurted out, we were gonna
get Surper. Just can't imagine, she says, in hindsight, it's a funny moment, but it definitely took him by surprise. He was like, wait, what we were going to get Surper? In what way are we getting Surper? Can he still come over? I mean he's wearing a mask. Oh man. But she said, you know, they found things to be happy for. They kept their jobs, they never got sick themselves.
Definitely a blessing. They recognized that people were going through a lot worse, you know, throughout the pandemic than them having to change their wedding days, you know, trying to keep everything in perspective. And they finally got married in April of one, so they just celebrated their first anniversary. Happy anniversary. Of course, they had to get married within a lot of restrictions. A lot of guests couldn't make it,
so probably one of those very small intimate weddings. Yeah, she said she was especially disappointed that her grandmother couldn't come. It's her last leving grandparents. She wasn't able to get She's rural, so she couldn't get the shot in time
and stuff. So it was right in between what she called the original recipe COVID and the delta version original recipe, but she closed out, she said, coming up on our first anniversary, I greatly enjoyed your episodes, especially part two, which was when we had Cherry and Jason on and it was a great reminder that it's okay to mourn what we lost while still celebrating what we eventually got to have. And at the end of the day, we have each other and it feels like we can conquer
anything together. Now. Such a good lesson to take from this whole thing, right, totally. I'm so glad you found that in that episode, Sarah, definitely, and in the whole experience. Yeah, you know, you gotta you gotta live with how it is, however you wanted it to be. And so there's two ways to do that. One is with a lot of resentment bitterness in your heart, and another one is going Okay, how can I make this all right? And I love
that people managed to make it all right? Definitely definitely, so thank you so much for writing in and happy anniversary. But may there be many more? Do you here in this Surper thing? So like the birthday thing? Maybe yes, Surper will make his appearance like in your fifth anniversary, you know, like go big for the mascot anniversary? Is there a mascot anniversity? Paper Wood mascot got you a mask? But yeah, thank you Sarah for writing in. That's so wonderful.
Congratulations to you guys. Happy anniversary definitely, and you'll keep sending in your stories. Remember you can hit us now at ridic Romance at gmail dot com and we love hearing from you. But now we have a whole new story for you, brand new off the press is hot off the press, Not really, it's piping hot fresh content
here on Ridiculous Romance, Breaking News Bulletins Now. This story was suggested by macab Repeadia, which is another podcast hosted by a married couple, and they did an episode about this but then tagged us on Twitter and we're like, hey, this totally deserves the Ridiculous Romance treatment. If you all want to check this out, and they were right, so we gave it our very personal spin. Yes, thank you so much. That's just such a good idea. Didn't love
the circus. So it's eighteen sixty three, you know, the United States, not so united at this point in history, were being torn apart by Civil War, which seemed like it was going to drag on forever, pitting brothers against brothers and fathers against sons. And also the Union Army wasn't really doing very great at this point, so it
was kind of looking a little dire. So it was a welcome diversion to the entire nation when that great entertainer and showman P. T. Barnum announced the wedding between two of America's favorite circus performers, Lavinia Warren and General Tom Thumb. But Tom's best man, Commodore Nut, would have been only too happy to trade places with the groom. So let's hear all about this love triangle and the fairy wedding that captivated the nation. Lets go, hey, their
French comlution. Well, Elia and Diana got stories to tell. There's no matchmaking a romantic tips, It's just about ridiculous relationships. A love, it might be any type of person at all, and abstract cons at a concrete wall. But if there's a story with the second clinch, ridiculous rolls a production of I Heart Radio. It's eighteen forty one and P. T.
Barnum is starting over. The showman and entertainer had had some success with his first variety troupe in the eighteen thirties, but then the Panic of eighteen thirty seven happened and he hit on some hard times. Wasn't doing super well, but in eighteen forty one he purchased Scudder's American Museum and renamed it, of course, Barnum's American Museum. He improved
on the building. He added delights such as the rooftop strolling garden, and painted murals of exotic animals, and inside the museum he exhibited a menagerie of exotic animals and different curiosities, and of course, quote unquote freaks including albinos or giants or exotic women whatever that means. Um, jugglers and magicians. Those are fun. Some people were just builled as being cannibals. I don't know what the proof was. Did they have to eat like a finger in front
of you. I don't know, is it enough to just be like they're from an island somewhere. Probably probably little people, of course, and many many more, like pretty much any type of person he thought he could get you to buy a ticket to come look at he's going to hire them. It's like you have hair in weird places. Yes, let's go. This guy's teeth are a little pointier than other people's. Come on in, now you're a vampire or something. I'll figure it out. This guy kind of whistles when
he says the letter s see the amazing whistleman. I do want to jump into and say that if you go back and listen to our episode from June about Alan Jeanie Tominy this that's where he took place quite a bit later. That was in like more than nineteen
twenties and thirties. But we do get into a lot in that episode about the history of of what they called the freak Show and uh and and just the complexities of these kinds of parts of the American circus and how it was very beneficial and some people saw it as a wonderful thing and some people saw it as more challenging and kind of exploitative. There's a lot
of conversation there. We won't rehash it now, but definitely go back and hear that episode because it's also I think one of the most beautiful love stories were called on this show about two of the strangest and most amazing people. They're beautiful. Now. It's important to note here that not every type of little person was considered the quotes good type. According to Barnum, he and showman like him preferred what's called proportionate dwarves because they basically look
like miniature versions of adults. Their bodies were perfectly proportionate. They were just small. According to an essay by Leonard saw Wish, who's a clinical psychologist and a disability expert and himself a dwarf, Barnum actually coined the term midget around this time, as he writes to quote described members of the dwarf community who were the most socially acceptable i e. Well proportioned little people who could entertain on
the front stage for polite society. The rest of the dwarf community, those of us whose bodies are shaped differently enough to look more than just really short, were relegated to the backstage or freak shows. So you can see that there was a hierarchy here even within that that that circus community when you had people like Barnum in charge. And that is why you know, the M word is now considered a slur is because there's never a medical term.
It was always of just a selling points that Barnum was trying to differentiate his attractive, perfect little people from all those weirdos, you know, like, so it created within the community a similar hierarchy, and I think that's kind of why it fell out of favor over time, or it was like, we're kind of now inside our own community, creating this weird supremacy and like leaving people out, and people would use the term to describe like anything sort
of small or weird, So it just started being just really negatively associated, even though around this time particularly was preferred to dwarf, but not anymore. So don't say that ship if you still are now. It wasn't long after Barnum opened his American Museum that he heard about a little person named Charles Sherwood Stratton. Now Charles had been born a strapping nine pound baby, but when he was
eleven months old, he basically just stopped growing um physically. Emotionally, mentally everything's fine, but physically he's just not getting any bigger. And by the time he was five and eight forty two, he was just over two feet tall. But he was really clever. He was witty. Again, he's proportionate. So P. T. Barnham's like, this kid's going to be a star. I
know that he's going to be a treasure. So he signed Charles onto his management company and he started training him in all the arts of entertainment, singing, dancing, mine he did impersonations of famous people? Can I ask impersonations of famous people? In eighteen sixty three? Like, how do you know? When people sounded like like is he up there being like Abraham Lincoln? And people like I guess you are because you said it. I've never heard his voice.
It's eighteen sixty right, I do wonder that, Like they're like, oh, what if you saw the impersonator first before you ever saw the famous person, and when the famous person showed up, You're like, I don't know, it didn't sound like that impersonation. Are we sure this is the real Abraham Lincoln? When Stratton was over here, he said away different Abo like he's five years old, like who are you? Who are
you doing? But he apparently in his act by the time he was five, he was drinking wine and his act. By the time he was seven, he was smoking cigars in his act. So you know, I mean, maybe there's like a some famous cigar smoking guy. He's out here being George Burns or something, a good respect dangerfield. Dangerfield.
So when he was only five, he and Barnum embarked on their first American tour, and Barnum, you know, he's got to package him up, so he starts calling him General Tom Thumb, after the English fairytale character, and he told audiences that he had been brought over from England had great expense, even though he was actually born in Connecticut, was not born in England. But he's like, oh, I had to like get him on a ship and it's a whole thing from the exotic lens of the United Kingdom.
And he even lied about his age. He told people that Tom Thumb was eleven years old, so people wouldn't just come come to the show and be like, man, that's just a that's just a big baby, that's just a little bit of a small toddler that ain't a little person. Now. The tour was a huge success, such a huge success that only a year later Barnum took Tom on a tour to England, is made up his homeland. It's eighty four, so it wasn't really that long after
the little kerfuffle between America and England. So this was a risky move for Barnum. English audiences believe that they were generally, you know, classier and superior to those Americans. So there's my colonial up starck rep scallions, so they might not respond to the same type of entertainment. But Barnum, that pr genius, decided that he was going to pad
his pockets a little before he left, just in case. Yeah, so he told all his American audiences that Tom Thumb just that it's just a fuel more farewell performances before Tom Thumb has to go back to the strange mystical lands of England. So so he raised all this extra money. But when they got their overseas, nobody was buying tickets.
Kathleen Hawkins, in the BBC article titled The Real Tom Thumb and the Birth of Celebrity, says that Barnum quote quickly learned the importance of class status in England, and the marketing of Stratton to the upper echelon's aristocratic endorsement quickly advanced his popularity. Night led to Lord and Lord led to Duke until they got a personal invitation from Queen Victoria to Buckingham Palace. So a lot of just like, you know, I gotta figure out how to work the
English audience. And it's not like Americans. He can't just show up and start throwing popcorn of people and they're going to come out to watch whatever happens. These these classy aristocratic types need to hear about it from someone important and it just spread the word of mouth from Night to Lord to Duke. They want to hear from trusted through Well if the Duke says, so, wait, did you know the dukes that we should help this little pulse to the cut Well, perfect, because I need permission
to enjoy something, permission. I was thinking, Uh, that's interesting you say that they would want to be like, it's like an Angie's List for restocrats. I only want to hear it from a trusted friend, um, whereas here it's just like throw some pamphlets around and get who you get. But I also wonder if it's because, like they were more in America, was more about like volume over quality of audience members. You know, He's like, I want to,
you know, get people in for a penny. I just need a penion people to come, and I'm great, And then over there he's trying that, and it was like, oh no, no, no, you have to really cater to a totally different You have to cater to that audience in its special way. We're performing in the downtown foyer, but they would have sixteen chairs laid out, a four piece orchestra and you know, yes, and the the Duke and Duchess will be there, and each of them paid
fifteen hundred pounds to see him. Yes, And still Carson thinks it's much too mother, Oh Carson, that kind of thing didn't happen in my day. I would rather be shot in the head. My lord. He's such a drama queens that Carson. Anyway, I don't know, am I right? So anyway, Yeah, they had this invitation to go see Queen Victoria in her court, and again that's a little risky because there's a lot of court etiquette. You know, you meet the Queen. There's a very particular way you
talk to her. You look at her, you move around her. You know, she's a very protected gal. Some people train their whole lives just to say hello to the queen one time. And Tom, you know, first of all Americans, second of all, six years old, he does not know the etiquette that well. So he when he came in, he's just like, hello, ladies and gentlemen. Like everyone's like audible gasp from the what did he say? What did he look around the eye? And then he did his act,
which went over very well. Everybody seemed to like it. And then he did try to do the thing where you bow your way out of the room, never turning your back on the queen. You're not ever supposed to turn your back on. So they're trying to bow, but he couldn't really do it because he's short and he's young. He's like, I'll turn around and run a little way, and then I'll turn back around to the queen and bow.
And he turned around and run a little way and then turn back and bow, trying to keep up probably a barn um or the rest of his party who were all bowing their way out but the Queen had a little dog who got very excited by all this running and turning and running and turning, as dogs will do, and started like nipping at his feet and barking at
him and just getting real excited and playful. And so Tom, you know, at this point, he's he's been in the show business for like what a year life, basically a veteran at this point, so he knows what to do. He handled it really well. He pulled out this fake ceremonial sword that he was wearing as part of his costume and started fake sword fighting with the dog. The whole court fell over laughing. It was the funniest thing I ever saw my life. Queen's rolling on the floor,
can you imagine? I can't, but I would, especially Queen Victoria, she's so like buttoned up. But yeah, it did, did really well, and just a good example of how quick he was on his feet. You know, he's a real clever, witty kid um And so anyway, this visit was just
a huge publicity windfall for the whole or general. Tom Thumb became an international celebrity and their success in England was a shared and it wasn't long before Tom's three dollar a week salary became fifty dollars a week, and he and Barnum spent the next three years touring Europe. So they were really taking like world by storm man. I wasn't making no fifty bucks a week when I was six years old. I wasn't going to Europe either, That's for sure. I was on a stage, but I
was performing in a church basement in Christmas pageants. I don't think I was on stage, but i'm I guess. I'm glad I didn't have the responsibility of meeting the queen when I was sick. Yeah, I would not have done insults her somehow. Whatever I would have sword, I would have sort fought that dog would have been adorable. It's been so cute. Yeah. Well, According to Michael M. Chemmer's, who's the author of nineteenth Century Theater and Film, Tom
Thumb's success was a turning point in the US. Previously, exhibiting human curiosities have been seen as pretty ghosh and dishonorable, and was considered a low grade form of entertainment. But since Tom was so talented and just charismatic and just so good at being this showman and p t. Barnum actually wanted to lean on his true gifts as a performer,
all that showmanship, instead of just his short stature. His performances doing comedy and song and dance numbers totally changed the country's perceptions of these so called freak shows, and it made them one of the most popular forms of entertainment around. And some critics chose to judge Tom as a professional entertainer rather than one of these freak show attractions. They were like, what what if we judge him the same way we judge all performers, like a novel idea.
You know what, He's not so different, after all, this one must be different. Probably so Barnum in general, Tom th Um are doing great. But you know Barnum, he's always hustling. He's always trying to add to the team that get get stacked that line up. Real Nick Fury of his day, definitely so. In the late eighteen fifties, he had heard a little bit about a handsome, young little person from New Hampshire named George Washington Morrison nut What a name, Quite a name, and I think we
should hear more about him. Right after this break and welcome back to the show. So Barnum had heard about this kid, George Washington Morrison Nut, and he heard that this boy was being exhibited for only a nickel a look, and his education was being neglected, which really disgusted Barnum. He did not like that kind of behavior. Yeah, Barnum looked out for his people in ways that are debatable, but by and large, he wanted them to be paid well. Um,
he wanted them to have opportunities. Yeah, it's he's a tough character, I think to look at and from our perspective, because he was very money driven, certainly, and he had so many like horrible things that were happening, but they were very much of their time as well. And anyway, Um, but yeah, but it must be said the people who worked for him were treated pretty really well. They had good benefits, they were paid, they paid really high wages. I think that he really did not want to treat
them like not members of society. He knew they were his resources. And uh, and if he lost them to competition, you know, he didn't have a show. That's true. That's true. So anyway, in eighteen sixty one, Nut visited Barnum's American Museum for the first time and Barnum's us mat chance, so he hired a lawyer to learn Nut away from
this crappy manager who wasn't doing anything for him. Now, Nuts only twelve at this point, so the lawyer goes straight to his parents and promises like a huge sum of money if they I'm their son to a five year contract starting at twelve dollars a week, although there were other significant like money perks at the end of you know, the end of the month, at the end of a couple of years. You know, it's all kinds
of stuff like that built into the contract. But even more than that, all his food, clothing, travel, and medical care costs would be covered, and he promised to give the boy a genteel education and help him grow up to be a very classy, awesome dude. Parents were like cool,
sounds great, and then signed on the bad line. Now again, Barnum showed his acumen as a pr genius here because even though the contract was already signed, he made other theatrical agents and managers think that he was still trying to hire this kid. That made all the other guys want him to and they all rushed to nuts parents with huge cash offers. And then while they're doing that, Barnum leaked a letter to the press where he confessed that he'd had to pay thirty and dollars to secure
a contract with this kid Nut. So he became known in the press as the thirty thousand dollar Nut. My tasteless joke about this is that there's a guy listening to this who pays child support. He was like, I've had one of those. Sorry, you shouldn't talk about your kids like that. So at this point the kid's success was basically assured. But that wasn't the only thing Barnham did to make this kid stand out. He gave him the stage name Commodore Nut and had him dressed in
these naval uniforms. And then he had a miniature carriage built for him in the shape of a walnut, and he had Shetland ponies pulling it along and nuts brother RODNEYA, who was also a little person, was driving the carriage in a coachman's uniform. Whole whole visual spectacle up. And then he would have them drive around town to whip up excitement about seeing them at the museum. And boy did this work. Barnam knew his business you can say
that about him. So Commodore Nutt made his debut in February eighteen sixty two to great success, but not all the museum goers were satisfied because they thought Commodore nut was actually just General Tom Thumb in disguise. Barnum was trying to pretend like he had two little people when he only am a little person. And how dare you even make sure what the differences? Eighteen sixty two, this is twenty years after Barnum met Tom. Yeah, and Tom
was five at the times. So Tom's twenty five, yeah, and Commodore nut here is yeah, and like thinner, he's years younger. He's thinner than the general. I mean like he doesn't really look like the General. Okay, they're just like two little people's whatever. And Nut thought it was hilarious. He's a little bit of a scamp, so he thought it was really funny, and he encouraged the crowds to think that he was Tom Thumb, which there's no heard of how he did that that I found in our
preliminary research. But I imagine him being like, who me, I'm no Tom's I'm ladies and gentlemen, or am I no, I'm just kidding, or no, no, no, no, no no, I'm really I'm just joking. Obviously joking. Would P. T. Barnum lie to you? And he definitely would, of course he would. He's built his whole career on it. But not this time. I sing, I'm less making them lose their mind. I'm on a roller coaster. I don't know what to believe. But Barnum did not love this joke. He's like, this
could be cutting into my sales. So he wrote to General Tom Thumb, who was touring the American West at the time, and asked him to cut the tour early, come back to New York. I want to put these hoax rumors to rest. So in August, Nut and Thumb appear it on stage together build as quote, the two
smallest men and the greatest curiosity is living. But even though the audience is literally seeing it for themselves, like they're looking at two guys side by side, one of whom is years older than the one they some of people still thought it was the same guy, like she was still in the audience. Lan that's still thomps some
kind of mirror. I don't know about this, and Barnum wrote in his autobiography, quote, it is very amusing to see how people will sometimes deceive themselves by being two incredulous. And that just really rang a bell for me for some reason. And this day and age, Yeah, boy, that all that, that impulse to go not everything is how it seems. You gotta gotta dig deep, you gotta follow the money, you gotta get down in there and figure it out. And you're like sometimes just tying yourself in
a knot. Yeah, there's nothing to see. Sometimes the simplest solution is the correct one. These people, well, you know, I know I saw the moon two eyes, but I don't really trust those. I only trust what I kind of think might be true. And that's that. That's the only one mois listen to. In November of eighteen sixty two, both General Tom Thumb and Commodore Nut were invited to the White House to meet President Abraham Lincoln. It's stopped by again. When they showed up, Lincoln walked out of
a cabinet meeting to see them. Everyone stopped, and I know we're talking about national security, but I've got to go talk to these kids. Some celebrities are here. I'm very tall, they're very short. This is gonna be hilarious. Plus, if they had posed for a picture, would take like forty five minutes. Right, yeah, Deborah, or to lunch, We're gonna take a photograph. Hold my calls. What the call? I talked? Untold everyone, I went to the future and went to the shopping mall. I knew I should have
kept my mouth shut. So Lincoln walks out of this cabinet meeting to meet General Tom Thumb and Commodore Nut. And when he met them, at least according to P. T. Barnum's account, Commodore Nut got a little saucy with the administration, which is of course why they invited him, because he's such a little scamp doing it. And so he points at all these stuffy, you know, white house folks, and he says, you know which one are? You? Is spending
so much of the country's money right now? And the Secretary of War got up to well, I'm afraid that's me son and Nut, and Nuts said quote, it isn't a good cause anyhow, And I guess it will come out all right. He's all right, I guess you can spend that money since it's you, yeah, spending it on
the war, alright, alright, I got back on you. And when they were leaving, Lincoln himself kind of got into the spirit and started choking around a little, and he says, all right, commodore, if your fleets ever in danger, be sure to wait to shore of safety in the United States. Here we'll pretict you lose any military and Commodore nut looked linking up and down and said, quote, well, I
guess Mr President, you could do that better than I could. Oh, Commodore Nut with the tall jokes, and a Blincoln's like, oh damnit, abe, you're really Lincoln logged that one. Oh I walked right into that one, just like that stove pipe that's stuck on my head and I keep telling everyone is a hat. I can't get it off, can't get it off. Old back into my magic phone booth
to see the nineteen eighties. So it seems like Nutt and Thumb might be getting to be sort of friends, right, I mean it performing at together, so they probably pretty friendly at least. Again, get the age gap here. You imagine Tom Thumb is like this thirteen year old kid. I'll show on the ropes totally. I'll be his mentor.
So sometime in eighteen sixty two, you know, Barnum's got his ear to the ground and he starts hearing rumors about an extraordinarily pretty little woman performing on a riverboat in the Mississippi River, and he's like, holy shit, I gotta go meet her. And her name was Mercy Lavinia Warren Bump, but she performed as Lavinia Warren even though I'm like, Bump, what a good name. That's a greatness stage Uh. She was from Massachusetts and at sixteen she
became a successful school teacher for several years. But then she heard about General Tom Thumb's success performing and she's like, maybe I'll give that a whirl. And so she joined a Mississippi riverboat as a dancing shentoose, which is so classy. It's such a classy to say I sing and dance like I'm a dancing shantos on a river boat. Remember when Velvet Underground with Nico came out and Nico is listed in the liner notes as shuntos, Like, oh, that's
so much classier than vocals. She also she was joined by her younger sister, Minnie Warren, who was also a little person. And when she got the chance to make better money at Barnum's American Museum, she of course said yes, and many went to but Lavinia was the star Barnum built her. Quote, the Queen of Beauty. It's a pretty dope name for someone else to give you two It would be different if you gave it to yourself. People like, okay,
but someone else they do that, that's pretty good. And when the jed Earl and the Commodore got back to New York after their White House visit, both of them lost their hearts to her. At the first introduction, Well, sure, the Queen of Beauty. I know. They were just like, oh my god, smoking hot lady. Yeah. I have wonder
if she didn't say yes to working at Barnham's. I mean not just because the money was better and everything, but General Tom Thumb was the guy who inspired her to start working, and and yeah, I would go work near him. Sure makes sense. I'm gonna be like, oh, you're I don't know, performing at local clubs at home, and then David Geffen shows up and it's like, do you want to come work for me? Like, yeah, I
think I will. Yes. My inspiration David Geffen, what a reference, I mean somebody like okay, So they both fall for this queen of beauty right away, General and the Commodore. But unfortunately for Commodore nut he's only thirteen years old, remember, and Lavinia is twenty one, so she thought of him as nothing more than just being quote a nice little boy. Ouch. You know, art when you're like, I'm a man in love with a woman and she's like, what a nice little boy. He was like, I think I'm gonna go
hit myself in the head of the brick now. But you know, I'm sorry, kid. I know you're like a child star. Sometimes these thirteen year old celebrities, you know, you gotta you gotta remind them that they're kids. So here's a little he's a little injured by That definitely brought him down a peg. But it only got worse when P. T. Barnum gave Lavinia a diamond and emerald ring as a gift, which was a very nice gesture, but it didn't fit her. You wonder where he got it, Like,
he didn't have it custom made. It's just like maybe I found it in the audience one day and found yeah, and he's like, give it to Lavinia. You go for the queen of beauty, and she's like, this is nowhere close to my side. So Barnum says, I've got an idea for you. Then why don't you give it to the Commodore as a token of your friendship? A common thing to give in friendship. Diamond and Emerald twenty one.
And this thirteen year old boy who's crushing on me is such a good friend that I'm going to give him expensive jewelry. Come on now. She agreed and gave the Commodore not this ring. And of course he thought it was a declaration of love, because he's thirteen years old and a beautiful woman gives you a fancy ring and you have no idea what to think. Oh my god, he thought all his dreams were coming true. And it was super awkward for them both because Lavinia, of course,
had just fallen for General Tom Thaw. I mean, this guy was just four years older than her, so a lot closer and more more acceptable of an age gap. Honestly, would have been so weird if Lavinia had been into this would be a very different story. We're telling what was going on, so, I mean, you know, she meets General Tom Thump. He's the reason she got into show business. He's super cool, he's save, he's traveled the world, he's met the Queen of England. Like it's no wonder that
she was in for this guy. As soon as they met, they like took each other's hands, looked into into each other's eyes and that was it for that, Like that was just like, this is it. We're doing this right? Okay? Great? So I don't know, a speculation station, and I was thinking Barnum was kind of trying to get Lavinia to go out with the commodore with the ring, or trying to like stoke this love triangle a little bit. Maybe maybe that was it, I don't know, or if he
just didn't know that Tom Thumb was interested yet. And I was like, oh, that'd be cool to have, you know, two little people get together. I don't know. It just seemed like such a weird thing to do, but maybe it was just a normal But would give people rings? Would who you know, all accounts did respect that these were adults. Would he want to set this woman, grown, twenty one year old woman up with a thirteen year
old boy, even if they were the same size. It's weird, but I mean eighteen sixties people got married a lot younger y, So I don't know. I'm like an independent, I don't know. And maybe, and you know, again, I'm totally in speculation station. He might have just been like, I found a ring, it doesn't fit. I don't know, give it to commodore. I got a business to run
and doesn't give it a sing. I wonder if maybe he didn't think, like, you know, if there's like a whole like love triangle here that might make the headlines drama around, like people will follow this story. Who's she going to pick? You know, classic team? So who knows. I don't know. I was just like, why would he do that? But anyway, General tom Thumb was like, whatever Barnum's doing, I don't care. He's very powerful around here.
I want him on my side. So he went to Barnum and he's like, hey, if you convinced Lavinia to marry me, and like, again, she's already in it's not hard to convince her. But I think, like, if she comes to you and asks you anything, you know, just like me wingman for me, like, you know, tell her to take me seriously, we'll get married. In public. We'll have a public ceremony. Oh my god. Barnum's pupils immediately turned into dollars side and and he was like, oh yes,
oh my god, I love this idea. He started being like, Lavinia, isn't Tom the best? Like Tom's my favorite guy in the world. He's real rich too, by the way. He just started whispering in her ear. And he even invited Lavinia and Tom and Tom's mother to his home for like a weekend visit. I guess Tom's mother very significant. He wanted to meet his mother. But the commodore was not going to take this kind of thing lying down.
He's a commodore right commands a whole naval fleet. So he found out that Tom was in love with Lavinia, and he got insanely jealous, and he actually went into the dressing room and started beating Tom up out. And when he heard that Lavinia was going to Pete Barnum's house for the weekend, he just invited himself along, not knowing that Tom and Tom's mom were going to be there too. The mom of Tom he could not greet with applause for him. That trip was about so I
was a little high when I wrote the script. Well that that Ryan was as beautiful as no no more rhyming, rhyming. All right, So Commodore Nut basically left New York late and didn't get to Barnum's place until eleven pm. So he walks in and surprises Tom and Lavinia together in the parlor. I didn't know you you're here, the child little right, And little did Commodore Nut know that General Tom Thumb had just proposed and Lavinia had just accepted. He like walks in and he's Tom's like getting up
from one n this is a sitcom situation. Oh absolutely, what are you? What are you doing here? The string the spoil a good moment here, buddy. But Tom and Lavinia knew that the Commodore would go nuts about it if he found out, so that he didn't tell him about their proposal for over a week. And you know, he was pretty mad about that after the fact. He called it a dustardly offense by P. T. Barnum and Tom Thumb. They were like, our engagement would cause your enragement?
Oh no, the rs. So at this point Barnum gets a little tasteless and he's like, hey, Commodore, what about Lavinia's sister Minnie. I mean she's younger than Lavinia, but she's basically the same person. I mean, you'll be happy together. You guys can get engaged, and then you can be Tom Thumb's best man, and Minnie will be Lavinia's bridesmaid and oh my god, I'm gonna make a fortune. But the Commodore was heartbroken. He decided to swear off women forever.
He said he wouldn't quote married the best woman living because he's thirty. I don't like this poor kid and the throws of his first love. Yeah, obviously it's gonna be really dramatic. He's like going through puberty right now, and they're like, sorry, this twenty one year old woman married someone her age. He's like, love is a lie. I'll never speak to a woman again. My heart is forever hardened. Yeah. I felt that way when I was two, when I found out that Uma Thurman was never going
to marry me. You know, just broke my heart. How cold hearted of Uma. I still have hope. It's never too late, Uma call me. Oh, and Commodore Nut also refused to be Tom Thumb's best man. He's like, I'm not falling in with that idea go to hell. But not long after this, General Tom Thumb asked nut himself to be his best man, and Nuts said yes. And according to tom Ogden's book Two Years of the American Circus, Nutt told Barnum, quote, it was not your business to
ask me when the proper person invited me. I consented, Well there you go, yeah, which is true. You don't ask someone else to be someone's best man. No, the wedding planner doesn't ask me to be the best man. The groom has gotta better want my ass there. But also I kind of he was like, it wasn't ever about her, Okay, I got no proma professional, right. So February eighteen sixty three, the so called very wedding of the Vinea and General tom Thumb was held in New York.
And we're going to hear a lot more about that right after this. Welcome back to the greatest show in the world. So, this very wedding was front page news. Two thousand people were invited, all the big names of society like Mrs Astor and this is Vanderbilt, Mrs Greeley, Mrs Mrs money Bags. The monopoly Man was there, right, the statue of Liberty was there. President Lincoln surely sent like a letter and a couple of flowers or something
his old buddy. The ceremony at the church was for but Barnum sold tickets for seventy five dollars to the reception, and just to put that in today's spending money, three is twenty six hundred dollars. My god, just like super Bowl ticket on a good year and a very good year. Yeah, and and those only went to the first five thousand people to apply, five thousand people at top. That's a lot of money. He's more math than I can do. But usually you spend money on a wedding, but he's
making money on a wedding right now. Apparently many people who came were curious about how sex between two little people would work, which is an insane question to ask. How would it be any different? I don't know, how would it? How could it poss anyway? Barnum, as usual himself, neither encouraged nor discourage this conversation because it was selling tickets. So come on, how that could it be? Right? Oh, that's a real good question you're asking there. Why don't
you buy a ticket? And find out as if they're going to have sex, they're not going to have to the ceremony during the reception. Now that's a wedding. Wow, very old school of them, like outside the room, watch the marriage bed. At the reception, Lavinia and Tom stood on top of a grand piano so everyone could see them while they greeted their guests. Presumably did not have sex on top of the grand piano to show everyone
how they did it. Although at our wedding, I did get drunk and lay on top of the grand Yes, it wasn't a grand piano, I guess, but I did lay on the piano. It was grand when you were laying on it, right, right. We were not supposed to be on the piano. But no, don't tell anyone. But there's a lot of photographic evidence. The girl was like, this is my house today. Now. Apparently Commodore Nutt gave
Lavinia a diamond ring as a wedding present. I mean, you gotta wonder, is Tom like, um, hey, that's kind of my job tonight, Like you're supposed to carry the ring, give it to me. That's worse than showing up in a white dress for a wedding. Is like showing up with a diamond ring as a present. What are you doing? Nuts? Nuts? Right? If I can pull into speculation station once again, I'm thinking Nut was trying to pull a Dwight from the office and marry herself. Like He's like, hand the ring out,
put the ring, I do, get the ring. You know how the wedding's gonna go. I've got this. Uh, I've got this fake preacher here to help us rehearse it. He's gonna say this, and you're gonna say, I do take you to be my husband? Right, yes, say it? Okay, I do? All right, Now I'm going to say I do take you as my wife, and then you'll like sign this little paper and we're married now. And she's like, wait a minute, wait a minute, what does happen? Anyway,
the wedding was a sensation. America was enthralled. We were obsessed. They were the Kardashians of their time. On their honeymoon trip Lavinia and General Tom Thumb were given a reception at the White House by President Lincoln. Really into these guys. But it wasn't just America. The whole world was captivated by this fairy wedding. So Barnum naturally saw a chance to make bookoo bucks, and he sent all four of them, Tom Thumb, Lavinia Mini, and Commodore Nut on a world
tour together as the Tom Thumb Company. They left in eighteen sixty nine. They traveled sixty thousand miles, performed almost fifteen hundred times, and visited five hundred and eighty seven cities as far away as Australia before they finally came home in eighteen seventy. That's a really insane world tour, especially back then when it took so much longer to travel, just exhausting. No no tour buses, tour carriages shaped like wal nuts. Maybe, so they were like a worldwide phenomenon.
The General and Lavinia were extremely wealthy. They were living a life of high luxury, like a custom house built in Massachusetts, custom furniture, and they had like a house in New York, which no one can have anymore. Good luck to you. They were just doing real, real well. And eventually the General became business partners with Barnum instead of an employee. He even bailed him out when Barnum
hit financial difficulties. So they were really close, these two men, they really had a genuine friendship that had lasted since he was five years old. But even though they were doing so well, the tour was also kind of uncomfortable. Barnum thought that it made them more sympathetic to be presented as child to the public instead of as grown people in smaller bodies, but consequently the public treated them
like children. Kim Nielsen's book, A Disability History of the United States talks about how a lot of people wanted to like pet and hold Lavinia as if they would a toddler, and Lavinia is quoted as saying it seemed impossible to make people understand at first that I was not a child, that being a woman, I had the womanly instinct of shrinking from a form of familiarity, which in the case of a child of my size would
have been as natural as it was permissible. People probably like touching her hair up, randomly hugging her, and she's like, I am a grown woman, and I really don't want you to random men and women to touch me. Yeah, exactly. And also we can acknowledge I think we've had the conversations today that don't do that to kids either, like to have their own autonomy, and don't just walk up to a kid and pet them and pick them up and ship without talking to him first. It's true they can.
They can refuse a hug, ben if it hurts your feeling. Some people also doubted that their wedding was even real, calling it a big publicity stunt. That would probably was something to do with them thinking, oh, they're not they are children's I have no sexual feelings, and they would have romantic feelings, you know, that kind of dismissal of their adulthood. According to a BBC article, Tom said quote, it is true we are little, but we are as
God made us perfect in our littleness. We are simply man and woman of like passions and infirmities with you and other mortals. The arrangements for our marriage are controlled by no showman. That's got to be tough because like it sort of was a publicity stunt, Like it was a real wedding, but Barnum and them made it a show.
So you can see how that lent people the idea that like, oh, well, is this even real or is this It's like when we put something on TV, we don't know whether those people really care about each other and more often than not out we assume they don't. Yeah, so it can make it hard to know when it's real when it isn't. Like flavor of love that was real. Love was flavor flavor hoops just timeless. Oh surely not.
It's no way. Now. At some point in their career as a married couple, Lavinia and Tom started appearing, sometimes on stage and in official photographs, holding a baby that they said was their child. Now there's a lot of dispute about this. The rumor is that Barnum sort of was like, listen, the next step of your journey to fame and fortune is you have a family, you have a baby. And I wonder if they were even kind of into that, because it showed them as grown people
who could have babies, you know what I mean. So the hearsay again is that he would rent babies from foundling hospitals and orphanages for them to just like hold for the performance and then you send them back. I guess, baby by the hour from an orphanage. I guess it seems like a really weird thing to let some do. You could do an hourly rental. You can put babies on layaway you wanted for a week, there's a there's a bulk discount if you take two or more at
least to own program for babies. So so yeah, the rumors that they never actually had kids themselves, they just rented these babies. But in Lavinia even apparently admitted to this in her autobiography. But in Kathleen Hawkins BBC article, she says that historian John Gannon revealed paper evidence that Lavinia and Tom did have a baby together at some point, and Tom Thumb's obituary in the New York Times said that they had a child together in eighteen sixty nine
that died in eighteen seventy one. So this is a fun to stuss out, I think, because I mean, it's not like P. T. Barnum probably couldn't have gotten somebody to write up some paper evidence of the fake baby they had to Um. It's really not It's hard to tell what's publicity and what's real in this case. So I don't know, they could could be a real baby that they really had, and there might have been no
baby at all. Interesting. I also wondered if like maybe they did have a real baby but they were like, well, I don't want to put him on stage with us right now? Yeah, rent me a baby who has no wonder, look out for it. That's better somehow, who knows well. After they got back to the States from their world tour, Commodore Nutt had an argument with Barnum that resulted in him quitting the company. He's probably like, what is this called the tom thumb? First he takes my girl, now
he takes top Billy. I'm just kidding. He always had top. Nut and his brother went out west and tried putting up their own shows, and they even ran a couple of saloons, but they weren't super successful in that. He was apparently love lorn for years over Lavinia, and at some point, long after her marriage, Barnum asked nut why he wasn't married yet. Nut responded, quote, Sir, my fruit is plucked. I have concluded not to marry until I'm thirty.
And many papers at the time wrong the reported that he was married to Lavinia's sister Mini, but they were only ever close friends, and in eighteen seventy seven Many actually married another one of Barnum's performers, a dwarf named Edmund Newell, who performed on roller skates. Super cool, but tragically many and their child died in childbirth in eighteen
seventy eight. But the Commodore didn't stay single forever. In eighteen seventy nine, he met a woman named Miss Lillian Elston in California, and they got married when he was thirty. Just as he had told Barnum, there you go, not there you go, way to way to predict your life. But sadly, only three years later in eighty one, Nut had an attack of Bright's disease or nephritis, which is a kidney disease, and he died. His wife apparently cried
over his coffin. She said, he was so good. It's like so good, like he was so good, or like he was so good. Oh my good at the funeral, I know, wasn't that one. In eighteen eighty three, Lavinia and Tom were in Milwaukee performing at the New Hall House when a fire broke out, and Milwaukee historian John Gerda called it quote one of the worst hotel fires in American history. Over seventy one people die in it, but fortunately not Lavinia and Tom. They were narrowly rescued
by their manager, Sylvester Bleaker. There you go Sylvester. Way to go, Sylvester. Imagine just charging up the stairs. Yeah, grabbed him both up and let's get out of here. But only six months later, Charles Sherwood Stratton a k a. General Tom Thumb died suddenly of a stroke. He was only forty five years old. Over twenty people attended his funeral. I'm thinking about like Frederick Douglas, who had two thousand people,
like damn, like so many. I think we can we can say at least that we don't necessarily measure a man's worth by the number of people at their funeral. The true and we haven't changed much as a country. Like Barnum had a statue of him built as his gravestone, and he was buried at the Mountain Grove Cemetery in Bridgeport, Connecticut, which was a cemetery Barnum had donated the land for and designed himself Um and Bridgeport is also General Tom
Thumb's birthplace. So I wonder if that's why I chose that hand, you know, if that was like a connection somehow I do. I gotta say that the P. T. Barnum designed cemetery, in my mind, has like a merry go round, just like, you know, ghosts juggle and blaming swords. It sounds so fun. There the greatest cemetery on Earth. Oh, in eighteen nine, when Barnum himself died, he would be buried only a few feet away from his friend and business partner. So that kind of shows you too, how
they were close. They were. Yeah, yeah, we got to go to Connecticut, I guess, I guess so and see the greatest cemetery honor. Yeah, step right up, folks. If there's no ferris wheel, I'm gonna be really disappointed. But just elephants marching through all the Yeah, Menagerie's there's a bearded lady greeting you at the gate. Right. Did you know that Barnum didn't get into the circus business until
he was sixty. I didn't know that he was like in this museum stuff way before he got into circus traveling circus stuff, So I didn't I didn't know that. It's like, wow, he's a lot older than I I suspected. So whatever your dreams are, keep going after never too late. A few years after Tom Thumb's death, Lavinia married another
famous dwarf, the Italian performer Count Primo Maghri. Together, they ran a successful and famous roadside stand in Massachusetts, and they traveled the world with their theater company, performing for royalty, including Queen Victoria. I like that Lavinia also got to meet under her own steam. In nineteen fifteen, she and Magrii starred in a silent film called The Lilliputians Courtship.
But even so, when Lavinia died in nineteen nineteen at seventy eight years old, she was buried next to General Tom Thumb Charles Sherwood Stratton under a tombstone that reads simply his wife, which is I've mixed feelings about because she was definitely her own presence, her own performer, and obviously her own person. So it's I mean, probably because it's around the same time I'm thinking about Frederick Douglas a lot I think about Helen Pitts. She was so
determined to write herself out of his story. Um, that that was what she spent her time on. Was like, well, I you know, and I totally get it, because she's like highlight the man and his amazing words, all his work. He did so much great things. It's not about me. Um. But at the same time, it's like, your contributions are not nothing. Why would you want to completely erase yourself from the story. So it's funny that she felt like
that too. Um, but we talked about that a little in Frederick Douglas about how women weren't supposed to be talked about in print necessarily whatever. So maybe it was like kind of weird to like put your splash your ship up or something like it was considered. Sure, I think if it were me, I'd be like the Queen of Beauty lies here. I'm the Queen of Beauty, Queen of Beauty Lavinia, who also performed for Queen Victoria, who was then a countess. I mean, it's a pretty cool life.
So but I can see too that you know, there's something very devoted and romantic about her being like, that's all I really cared about was being his wife. That's my best role I've ever played something like that. Meanwhile, Count Primo is like what I thought, the same thing, because he was he died like a couple of years later, so he was alive to see her buried under somewhat next to a different guy. Well, anyway, you know, maybe it's a business arrangement and he was like, you're the
queen of beauty. I need those, sidekick, Let's do this. I don't know well, and I know a lot of couples. You know a lot of people who have married widows or widowers. Uh, you know, have a lot of respect for their previous marriage and things like that too. So maybe he was totally fine with it. We can't know until we get until we get a Lincoln's phone both time machine, and we'd go back and ask him ourselves. Yeah,
one day someone will gift us that. So a B. Lincoln, if you're listening, please ride your phone with time machine right over here. We've got some questions, many questions. Well that was a really fun story. YEA, like a little triangle. Yeah, yeah, weird age difference thing. I know, it's so funny. I love this thirteen year old boy just being like, I'm not going to get married till I'm thirty. Now. I guess he was older when he said that, but still
he's stuck with it. Did He was like, No, I said when I was thirteen that I'm swearing off marriage. Now that I'm an adult, we'll say thirty. I'm having fun with the ladies, right, Um, I did wonder about that because it's kind of treated as like a very equal competition. I guess like you were kind of standing on the same level. But I don't see that that way at all with their ages. No, not at all.
It's just funny to me that it wasn't more of the I mean again, I didn't get to dive as deep as I would app but you know, some of us just like, well, anyway, they both liked her, and she chose this guy anyway, who knows why. And I was like, because he's a teenager, that's a very obvious reason. But she definitely was like, I'm quite a woman and you're just a little kid. So anyway, but he stayed loyal to her. You have to admit he sure did.
He's like, I love that woman. And that's it for Hey, that that first teenage crush can really leave an impression. Oh Jillian, Oh Jillian, I don't remember her laz name. Yeah, no, thank you Maco Repdia for this suggestion because it was a really fun story and you'll check out their episode about it as well. Yeah, definitely for a different take. Um. Yeah, I'm glad we got to dive into this one and I hope you all enjoyed it as well. Yeah, let
us know what she thought. Email us We're at Raddic Romance at gmail dot com that's right, or find us on social media Twitter, Instagram, I'm at Oh great, it's Eli, I'm at Dianamite Boom, and of course the show at Riddic Romance. Follow along and say hey, we'd love to hear from you and we'll catch you later this week with another exciting episode. Can't wait see you then, So long, friends, it's time to go. Thanks so listening to our show.
Tell your friends neighbor's uncle s Indance to listen to a show Ridiculous Well Dance