Fabulous Frogs and Racist Rats: Bert Williams, George Walker, & Aida Overton Pt. 2

all of his all the jokes. Did they ever actually fix anything on that show? I'm trying to all the time when they're actually no. The gag was that everything went chaotic, you know what I mean? Because he was always like more power and he would like juice up his drill and it would like and Al would say, I don't think so, Tim, and then he would drill his way right through a wall or something, right into the kitchen. She'd be like, I'm making something. What did

you do? Rash through the wall? Yeah, And they're like, oh no, and the audience like funny, let's show his wife and we're here today coming back to you to finish up the second half of the story about some early entertainers who changed the game. Very excited to have you back for this. Yeah, yeah, last time we introduced you to George Walker, Bert Williams, and Aida Overton Walker and they were three of the best and brightest to

ever grace the Voodville stage. And I hope you fell in love with them the way that I did reading about them, because I was just like, these hotties are so funny and awesome. I love them. Diana's having a real um For me, it was like Max and Carlotta are regular listeners, know my obsession with them, or m or Dorothy Putnam and just you just get sucked into some of these stories. They just own you why you're researching. And that was this for Diana for sure. Definitely, there

are some of these folks we've we've covered. I'm just like, why is this the first time I've ever hearing about these these people, Like I don't understand why they're not huge parts of my history. But but you know, I guess we didn't do a lot of vaudeville history in my public and your theater your theater degree do gardly no lot of history needed for that degree. Well there should be more, agree honestly. But anyway, so George, Burt

and Aida crushing it. Last time we left them, right, they had just put out their big hit, Into Homie, which was the very first musical to open on Broadway, entirely written and performed and produced by black people. Very exciting. But they have more shows up their sleeve. Obviously they have a lot of history to make. We got some drag performances to get to and of course some tragedy to overcome. I wish a right, so let us go and hear the rest of the story. All right, Yeah,

let's go show time. Pay their French come listen. Well, Elia and Diana got some stories to tell. There's no matchmaking, a romantic tips. It's just about ridiculous relationships, a love. It might be any type of person at all, and abstract cons up a concrete wall. But if there's a story, were the second clinch ridiculous Roles a production of I

Heart Radio. So yeah, when last we left off, we had discovered that Into Homey kind of helped Williams and Walker develop a formula for their shows, and their formula was like, we need to go to somewhere cool. We need big show stop in chorus numbers, and we need Aid to reten in a lead role as people loved

her so much. Right, it's like today being like, if you want to make a billion dollars in the box office, you called Dwayne Johnson and you put him in a khaki shirt and in the jungle somewhere and boom, formula done. I would watch their Jumanji. I would watch the Williams Waker Jumanji, Laudeville Jumanji, or like an early nineteen hundred Broadway Jumanji. Come on, get some studio, jump on board here,

come on ship that I would green light. You know what I mean, Somebody, why don't we have an unlimited stack of money? I know I'd be like, I don't care if this makes I'm gonna watch. I'm gonna watch this. This is for me. I'm producing a hundred billion dollar musical for myself, for me, damn it. I'm gonna watch it once and go, yeah, that's pretty good. All right, and that's it, hundred million gone. Somebody give us some money, please. It's not not a comp telling arguments. We'd like to

set it on fire, all right. So into home. He had just like gotten them international fame, right and their next Broadway show was called In Abyssinia, which opened in February nine six, and on black Work Broadway dot com, it says that the show is about Walker, George Walker, winning the lottery and then taking his dimwitted friend played by Bert Williams to the African country of Abyssinia, of

their ancestors, Abyssinia. While we recently talked about that on our episode about Menelek in tay too, because Abyssinia also known as Ethiopia. That's right, and Metelick makes an appearance misplay um Black Work Broadway says, quote the duo's misadventures land them before Abyssinia is ruthless monarch Menelik, who bangs a gong to determine whether they live or die. Three

bangs means death, four indicate life. At the show's climax, after an extremely memorable pause, Menelik banged it a fourth time. You know they've got a lot of comedy out of that, speak of Tim Allen. You know that that would just be a whole along. There'd be a commercial break everybody just like on the edge of the see oh no, it's very It's I'm thinking about Gladiator and Joaquin's Phoenix with his with his thumb out, is he gonna go up or down? Up or down? This is interesting that

they present mentally as a ruthless monarch in this. Of course, we learned in our episode he was anything, but he was just uh, he just successfully resisted colonization. And we did learn also in that episode how the Western world really besmirched his n Tito's name. So you can see that coming across Even in the States, people hear about this guy and they're like, oh, this ruthless monarch. So even in American black theater, Menelik is still seen as

kind of a villain. It's true. And what's interesting too is, like George and Ada, we talked a lot about them pushing back against stereotypes of black people for white audiences because they knew who they're playing to, like we can maybe change your mind and heart about some things. But they did also touch on a lot of issues within the black community itself. So for example, um into Homie, they're taking a group of people to colonize to Homie.

They were kind of touching on African imperialism, like within the black community, not just the white community. Interesting. So yeah, I mean it was interesting how much they were trying to put subtext for everyone who appened watching. You know, they were like every issue in my life, I'm putting it in my art, which I think it's cool. I wonder because I don't have you know, I haven't read

the show. I haven't seen the show obviously, but in Abyssinia, if they are presenting menelik as a more ruthless monarch is like a bad person sort of or bloodthirsty or whatever. It is the impression I get from this quote, you know that they're they're still Americans, they're still Westerners, They're still getting the propaganda of the Western world saying you know, it kind of transcends race at that point, and it's like, well,

who am I going to sympathize with? Not this brutal murderer who is out here banging gongs and telling people whether they live and die, which, at least in my research I never saw happening. That's definitely a theatrical device for comedy purposes only. So again, I don't know how this show actually portrays him, but you could see a lot of Americans and Westerners at the time we're portraying him has a pretty bad stereotype, right, And it's really

too bad that we can't watch this show. I don't I don't know that a lot of these scripts and scores still exists, like there's full copies of them anywhere, because it would be so cool to see a remount some of these shows, like and I would love to see Into Homie sometime. But I wonder if also, you're like, well, it's also still like they're saying some stuff maybe we don't want to say. I don't know, um, but yeah. In Abyssinia also featured live camels. Gotta involve some animals.

You sell some tickets that way, and it included a bit of a love story between Aida, who played a princess, and George's character, which had never been tolerated in a black production before. So this is another boundary they're kind of pushing, is they're like, we're normal people, we fall in love and spine and cool, which I love that too. And yeah, it was a huge smash, just like in Dahomie.

It was very very popular show, even though some white reviewers, like this one in Chicago Tribune, complained that quote, there is hardly a trace of negroism in the play, which is like, you didn't employ a stereotype enough for me. That's not how you are. I've seen other shows, so I know how you're supposed to be. But George Walker was unrepentant. He told the Toledo b in an interview quote, it's all rot this slapstick, bandana, handkerchief, bladder in the

face act with which black acting is associated. It ought to die out, and we are trying to kill it. The George I know, and I love that he was, so he's like, I'm trying to kill it. You're absolutely right. I don't want that ship and it's not going to be in my shows. That's awesome. Little worried about those camels, but that's okay. I mean, early nine hundreds camel animals in show business in general not well treated. We'll just skim right past it, dancing past the darkness. Uh Now.

In their next production, they really did push some serious boundaries because in that show, the black folks got one over on the white folks, and the white audiences ate it up, loved it. This one was called Bandana Land, and George and Burt played these two businessmen from a realty company who realized that white people's racism can be

turned around and you against them. White people didn't want any black owned, black controlled public spaces around them, So the realty company opened a black amusement park called Bandana Land, and it has this huge, noisy party, blackest party you've ever had a young life like prick nick for nineteen o nine. And this made the neighboring company, a white owned railroad company, so upset and scared that they bought

out the property at a highly inflated price. And George and Burt just laugh all the way to the bank. And then of course, you know, it turns into that bit they always do where Bert has to get his share of the money from George and this like trickster versus dupe comedy. But that's so great that they're like, oh, you won't buy my land. Well, I'm gonna convince you you want to buy my land by upsetting you so

much for more than you and everything normally. Yeah, I mean I love it too that they're just like, we're not intending it all to run this park, you know, not intended to do nothing. It's totally producers like, let's

make a show that does so badly. In her book Staging Race Black Performers in Turn of the Century America, author Karen Sodaropolis writes that in this show, Williams and Walker are again addressing segregation, white racist stereotypes, and African American exploitation of those stereotypes for economic gain, which we've

talked about before. You know, Williams and Walker, we're getting a lot of heat from the black community for performing in black face, for continuing to show these stereotypes to white audiences. They were like, you're maintaining this idea of black people for them, and they're they're kind of opinion. Was like, yeah, but I'm pulling back a little every single time, so I'm kind of bringing them along with me.

And I feel like, you could you kind of have to play what white people want to pay for, so, you know, do you do nothing thing or do you do the bad thing and make some money and get your seat at the table, which is kind of what we talked about last we did. We talked about the frustrations of incremental change, yes exactly, and out like was so frustrated, just like, just do what I'm saying but then you see people you know you you go in and make a big demand and everyone just says no.

When you get your left with nothing, do you get nothing? Yeah? Its so frustrating. So yeah, this is super tricky because they could push boundaries, but only as far as white people were willing to accept, as far as white audiences were willing to accept, because otherwise they would be torpedo

in their whole business. But it seems like most white reviewers did not pick up on this deeper joke of white people being taken advantage of because of their racism, which kind of reminds me of the Cakewalk, which was of course they were satirizing the white masters. White people were like, how good are you? Like insane? Variety wrote that it was quote a real artistic achievement, representing, as

it does, a distinct advancement in black minstrelry. Realizing perhaps that the white public is chronically disinclined to accept this stage negro in anything but a purely comedy vein, and having at the same time a natural desire to be something better than the conventional colored clown, Williams and Walker have approached the delicate subject from a new side, and I like that variety was like, yeah, I mean, of course they don't want to play that insane stereotype all

the time. Obviously, they want to stretch and grow and be artistically challenged. Bandana Land sold out four weeks worth of performances, and the New York Times review wrote that the kpwalk number that they did in it was so insanely popular that it had to be on court thirteen times. That is still crazy, like, especially thinking about we said last the low would bend or backwardscrobatics of water on their head. Time you had to do that. Whatever, They're like, whatever,

We're selling ticket every single time we come. Oh it's ten pm. You want us to do it again? All right? Everybody back out on stage? All right? Well? Ben Dana Land previewed in nineteen o seven and open on Broadway in eight That same year, George Walker took a significant step in his mission to create a fully funded network of black theater professionals, and he created the charitable organization

called the Frogs. There were several clubs and groups like this that were advocating for theater performers to get better wages and more flexible contracts, more performance opportunities, so on, so on. But apparently it was like studio contracts were where if you were with one theater, you could not go perform at another theater, like the contracts that you know, confining or whatever. But there's all these existing groups like the American Actors Beneficial Association or the White Rats Club

that didn't allow black members. The White Rats in particular were like super opposed to the black community, and they would boycott shows with black casts and they were refused to share the stage with black acts. They felt that black people, you know, actually being able to support themselves through their talents and not just quote take what they were given was a threat to guess who White men's

prosperity and opportunity, my prosperity. Man. It's it's funny to see for how long white men have been afraid that their prosperity is going away, and you know, all this time later, it still isn't. It still ain't because there's always a white rat, you know what I mean, that's will will protect it well, but that's not why, you know, they just they like if there weren't the white Rats, they would still have their fucking prosperity. You know what

I'm saying. I know what you mean. Yeah, I'm just saying it's like I'm not and then the credit of saying like, oh, your group has protected it because they had it would be there anyway. No, I just mean because of white supremacy, there's always someone there to go ahead and tramp down on whomever is trying to come up. But I think you're right. It's just like, even if you weren't trying to tramp down, there would still be plenty of opportunity. You know, It's silly to say make

a bigger pie means I get less pie. It's not. No, It's just what I'm saying is is no matter how long white people, white men especially have been saying I'm about to have everything taken away from me, it's never happened. It's not going to happen. We're never on the brink of that happening. Um. You know, even with the largest concessions being made, there's like you said, there's plenty of pie, um, and some people have more than they will ever be

able to eat. Yeah, and it's just rotting, yeah, going to waste anyway. Uh. These guys also didn't want any women and unstaged surprise, surprise, white men only. It's always been kind of the rallying cry. Yeah, they're like, what women and black people be encroaching, That's what they said,

which I hate that word. That's not what's happening. But as George himself said, quote, we thought that as there seemed to be a great demand for black faces on stage, we would do all that we could to get what we felt belonged to us by the law of nature.

George founded and was elected the first president of the Frogs, and Burt Williams was the second president, and then throughout the nineteen tens they would put on these annual parties called the Frolic of the Frogs that was so popular with both white and black people that they were able to tour it to other cities. They donated to other charitable organizations, and they worked to create more professional opportunities for black people, eventually expanding beyond just theater, and they

included lawyers and doctors in their membership. It's incredible. Yeah, and I really want to go to a Frolic of the Frogs party, please please. Yeah. A bunch of the most talented performers you've ever seen throwing down, having a great time with a bunch of people who just want the support performers. And it must be said, the fashion was had to be on point. You know, they were so dressed to them nines. They probably look incredible, every

single person there. Just I don't like to get dressed up that much, but sometimes I wish that we still have those vibes were like, we're going out, so it's time to look nice instead of like I'm going out. I will wear my house slippers. Let me change into my other tuxedo for dinner, and then I'll have my dessert tuxedo on standby, and then I'll put on my

special jacket to go get undressed. I also loved George's quote about black faces on stage because he's like, y'all are putting on this black face makeup to play black people. You want to see black people, so by the law of nature, black people should maybe be playing that. We should maybe be the ones, you know, really like that seriously, But tragedy struck in nineteen o nine, George Walker, that suave charmer, that ladies man. He had been stepping out

on aida with other women. No George and his messing around got him a case of syphilis, which at the time had no cure. He actually collapsed on stage from a stroke in the middle of a Bandana Land show. But the show must go on, so Aida simply put on George's classy gentleman's outfit and performed his part in drag. Wow, okay, George, you know a talented performer, Like you said, show's got to go on. You're gonna get up, You're gonna do it. Like, who knows George better than me? Wife? I can mimic

that motherfucker all day. Oh I know what he sounds like, do I? She adds a couple extra little choice phrases in there. Yeah. And he was sick enough that he actually he did have to leave the production for good. He could not come back to Bandana Lands. But I eat his rendition was so delightful and popular with audiences that they just kept on doing George's part in Drag for the rest of the run. What's the show we

were just talking about? We had an episode recently about women in drag performing and people losing their minds about it over in Austria. Right, Oh my god? What right? What was that? What the fun was it? Hang on, I just where we know our own subjects. Uh, let's see. It was the Sister Jan, Sister Betty, the h Jesse, Carmichael, Brenda, Gussie for real Austria, it was they did show. It was the Mummy, the Mummy thing, right. It was Collette,

it was Collecte. It was Collette, Okay, Brenda, Brenda and Jan, you know, and Collette exactly yeah, well she it was when she and Missy were in the place and that yes, and Missy was dressed as the gentleman archaeology was wearing pants and people lost their minds, right, and they were already upset, and then they kissed and they had to shut down the whole production and everything. So weirdly that was around the same time as this. But I guess

Das dressed as a man but not kissing anyone. Yeah, sure, sure, like a different thing. Also probably played well, I guess, probably not played so much for a laugh because she's just playing his part. Well, but it is a comedy show, yeah, so she did do his his part easier to get away with it. In comedy people are always a lit more forgiving that kind of stuff. You know. That's very true, and it's so funny how drag has been such a

part of theater history. I mean, you know, women used to not be allowed on you have ben we're in drag playing the ladies parts. And that's why those Shakespeare comedies where it's men dress as women dress as men just as women are always so funny, all the way back to a man. You keep going back to it. The layers are hilarious. Um, but anyway, it's so funny how prudish people get over time when we were We feel like we're getting so much more progressive. Actually we're

regressing in some ways. I mean the clothing thing, it's and it's it's still obviously it's around now is people are bending gender and clothing a lot. But this idea of like you're not supposed to wear pants, you're a woman, Like it's not natural, and I'm like, natural is naked. None of us supposed to be wearing anything. Very true? And who wants that not? Who said? Who said men wear pants and women don't wear pants? Who that was?

That is made up? That came out somebody's imagination and we just were like, yes, that'll work for a while, and now we're like clinging to it. Like it's the last door on the Titanic and we're like, we can't both fit on here, ladies. I have heard that, um, like high heels were h totally men's fashion that for a very long time, and then women started wearing them,

so men were like never mind. Or brewing beer used to be solely kidding for women, but as soon as it became a commercial enterprise, men only were cooking women as it was being paid, well, it was a men exactly. Women. Women belong in the kitchen unless you're getting paid for it, and then it should be met. Then it's art and it's a guy's like stuff like that where you you go back far enough and you see these turns of

like who was making money off of it? Or women started so men stopped, or women were doing it and then men started and women had to stop because you know, like it's just such a weird we don't know what women and men are supposed to do. That's the thing. It's always been different. We should all just do what we made all that shut up. Honestly, the words women and men are made up words words, all words are

made up. It's like damn good point. Well, sadly, though George was actually sick enough from syphilis said he had to leave theater for good. Um, he stepped down from the frogs. That's when Bert Williams stepped up to be president. But it spelled the end of the Williams and Walker company because George Walker was the businessman. He was the savvy one going out getting the deals and making things happen, and it was like a great performer, but he was not trying to do all that. Aida was not trying

to do all that. So they kind of said, well, here goes that. Without George, we don't have this company. And in nineteen eleven, George Walker passed away at only thirty eight years old, tragically young. Can you imagine what he would have done if he lived to sixty A right? I mean I can't because I feel like he would have just changed so many things. He was just such a force against stereotypes, and he was so outspoken in a way that Burt was not. That it would have

been really cool to see him. Ye see him live a little longer and get through more of more than undreds. But fellas if you're out there running around on your wife, you might get syphilis and die and not change the world more than you otherwise would have come on I do. I don't know if you got any info on this, but I noticed in here we don't suggest that Ada got syphilis. I did wonder about it. Speculation station they weren't sleeping together. Maybe not, the things weren't so so

hot at home, maybe not. I mean, it might be that his stepping out, he was like, well then you don't come home to me. But it's hard with especially with I think with black performers, because they don't want

to put out their business right. They're like, we need to show a respectable married couple that's doing otherwise it's going to feed into everything you already think about every black person in the world, and so you know, I don't think they There is a lot of personal anything written by Ada herself about like my marriage is going poorlier. I wish George wouldn't eat on me. I'm fine with

George cheating on me. We're married for business reasons. I mean, I don't know, because she never remarried either, so maybe she wasn't that interested in being married, and that's possible to now. At the time of his death, George Walker Burt Williams and Aida Overton Walker were described by The Boston Guardian as being quote the most popular trio of

black actors in the world. Just quite an achievement. But now that George is gone, Burt and Aida would have to forge their own performance paths, and so we will find out what they did without George right after they messages from my wonderful sposes a soap. If you want to be clean, use a soap, ladies and gentlemen. Try toxic tarnish the best third squenching drink. You can imagine. It's full of toxic poison. Drink up. Feel good? Are you dragging around preps? Well, you need cocaine. Here's a

whole bottle of cocaine. Drink it up, Ladies. You'll feel amazing and thinner than ever. If your feelings got you down, try electrocuting yourself and all your troubles will disappear in a puff of smoke from the top of your head. Shock away your hysteria. Oh products, we've come so far, lad it's what's the dinner? M hm. Welcome back to the show everyone. So after George's death, Bert went back

to the high class vaudeville stages. But even though he was a huge box office draw, those guys the White Rats club pressured theater managers to reduce Bert's billing from top billing to second billing. That was the whole thing. It's like, well, Vine, if he's the most famous guy in the world, I at least don't want him at the top of the marquee. Now, the first time they

did this, it worked just like they wanted. They took Bert's name from the top, they put it down below, you know, just trying to just trying to reduce him literally, very true, you know, both probably try and break his spirit and also just like diminish his celebrity, you know, and nasty stuff. Sort of a very very underhanded message to say, it doesn't matter how rich and famous you are, you'll just be a black man to me, which means you're below me. I don't care if I'm a brand

new performer, I'm better right right. But then Bert got booked at Hammerstein's Victoria Theater, who the White Rats also pressured to produce his billing. Now, the Victoria also acquiescedly said all right, we'll put Bert's name second, but I'm the marquee. They made Bert's name twice as large as the headliner. That's my kind of sabotage, That's all I'm saying. Oh yeah, you go through history like like World War two has so many good examples of this. Like I

know that I live in a fascist regime regime in Italy. Um, but I'm just gonna do my job really shitty, really shitty, and make sure the trains don't run on time, or I'll funk up this passport or just little ways to the rebel. I love it. They're just like, oh yeah, this show starring Schad Michaelson and putting it out there. But they're like, we know who you're buying a freak ticket for. Oh yeah, okay, white rats, We'll go ahead and put his name second. We don't want to hurt

the little baby feelings. Why don't you take a popsicle and go run around out side. Oh you poop your pants? Oh a little fascist nazi poops bands. So Bert then got cast in Zigfield's Follies, Big famous show, and before him that was an all white cast, and many of that all white cast told Zigfield to fire Williams or they would walk out of the show, to which Mr. Zigfield coolly replied, quote, I can replace every one of you except Williams. Okay, we're talking about the most famous

man in the world. Yeah, and y'all are all literally replaceable. Where else will I find a white performer in New York City? Like? Yeah? And guess what. The cast stayed and none of them walked. But there were other difficulties. They found their own ways to make life harder for Bert. Subtle sabotage works both ways. The Follies writers were slow to give Bert anything to do at all. In one show, they only gave him a single two word line of dialogue.

So Bert wasn't going to take this sitting down. He teamed up with a white comedian named Leon Errol and they wrote a sketch that became a twenty minute centerpiece and one of the best love sketches in the show. And their partnership was like shocking at the time because Bert's character delivered most of the punchlines and usually got the better of Leon's character. That's just totally unheard of.

It would have been the other way around in any black and white comic duo if there was, and if there was one, exactly exactly Now, after that, Bert got a record deal with Columbia, and not only did he get very generous contract terms, but they also dropped this super racist tone that they've been using to promote black performers, and instead they touted Bert's quote inimitable art and direct

appeal to the intelligence. Yeah, another just another way of people being like this guy is different, which is still fuck up. Like he was definitely like rising above for the times for sure. He also became the first black comedian to appear on film. This was nineteen fourteen, and he started in several silent films throughout the nineteen tents.

Tim Brooks, in his book Lost Sounds, Blacks and the Birth of the Recording Industry wrote quote, Williams had become a star who transcended race to the extent that was possible in nineteen ten. Very much a caveat, and the extent was not extensive enough because Birt suffered from chronic depression and alcoholism thanks to the racism that he experienced day. It made him feel really isolated. Um, of course we're talking about segregated America. So when he was touring with

the follies, he had to eat and travel separately. From the rest of the cast. At one point, I think they even had a strike and no one told him. So he showed up for work and he was the only one there. Nobody told him. Um. One time he went to a bar and the guy was like, we don't serve black people. If you want to drink, it'll be fifty dollars, and Bert pulled out a huge roll of money. It was like, I'm buying for everybody. Then you know, you know, right, But like, why don't have

to fight where I go? God? So exhausting. And Bert was not a fighter. He was not that type of person, you know. He was just like a very reserved guy. He didn't want to be having conflict everywhere he went. Hello, he has dedicated his life to making people laugh exactly and playing music and singing. Mean, the guy wanted to spread joy and everybody goes he's getting like tramped on. And yeah, he continued to be the highest paid black entertainer in the business, but he would consistent he gets

subpar material to work with. W. C. Fields, who worked with Bert in the Follies, once said that Bert was quote the funniest man I ever saw on stage and the saddest man I ever knew off of it, which makes me very sad, heart breaking. In February, Bert was sick with pneumonia, and like George, he collapsed on stage during a performance, which the audience thought was a comedy bit, and Bert quipped quote, that's a nice way to die.

They was laughing when I made my last exit, and he passed away only a month later at forty seven years old, still too young in my opinion. He was mourned by thousands and remembered as being one of the greatest comedians and recording artists of all time. And we did not get too much into Bert, but there's much more to learn about him. So we packed him up for sure and listened to his song Nobody is a big song that he did and stuff. He's very very

cool person to learn about. I thought, brave of you to say that forty seven years old is too young, and our opinion, because I know there's a lot of people out there like is pretty good. I honestly, I never thought anybody should live past forty. Shut up already at leads up for the rest of us. But we still got Aida to talk about because her life after George died often as treated as just a footnote, as if like her career died off with George, but in

fact she only got more famous and beloved. She basically became like the Beyonce of her time. She was the queen. She choreographed all the time for musical theater shows. She continued to perform herself, and besides Bert, she was the only black artist regularly performing in white venues. Now at this point, thanks to rising costs of like transportation and the popularity of movies, touring theater companies were on the decline and one of the largest black troops remaining was

the Smart Set Company. And that's who Aida joined in their show His Honor the Barber. She was billed as a supporting actress, but all the reviewers agreed that she was basically the real star of the show. I mean, we're here to see Aida. Critics Sylvester Russell wrote that quote, she is the dominant feature of the show and the box office attraction. Without her last season, there would have been no box office attraction. She is a superior artist.

He straight up said, the entire box office was nothing going on in it except for her. I love that. Like if she hadn't been at play, nobody would have gone to sea. In the show, she reprised her drag number impersonating George, and she sang a song called That's Why They Call Me Shine, and it is name dropped in nearly every review of this show as the highlight. Sylvester Russell wrote that quote, her male creation was so clever and natural of the style of her husband, that

the audience went wild with enthusiasm. The Chicago Defender wrote, quote, all the people who ventured out to see the Smart Set Company were drawn there to see Mrs Walker, the most fascinating and vivacious female comedy actress the Negro race has ever produced. Her male specialty held the audience's spellbound. Certainly there are no other stars in the Smart Set Company while she is on stage. I love that it's not only this, but she's like she's bringing back George

and it shows you how beloved he was. And everyone was like, I get to at least kind of experience him again because she's so good at doing him. Yeah, like that she's keeping George alive away with his his She also did a song called Bon Bon Buddy, so it's like a big part of her Fondeville act. She would always do George, and I think that's really just a lovely tribute, kind of keep his name in people's minds.

And that's although I wonder if everyone else in the smart Set company was like, well, geez, I thought I did pretty good, but all right, you know, my husband died ten years ago. To actually nobody seems to care about that. I could impersonate him, but he's a big piece of ship. Nobody wants to see by a husband. I hate to stop us there, but we've got to go to a commercial, so don't go away, and we're

back at It. Was such a superstar at this point that she was able to realize her own dream, inspired by her early role model Cieretta Joiner Jones of Black

Patty Fame, of forming her own vaudeville company Um. She had one male partner named Lackay Grant and eight female dancers in this company, and the broad Acts wrote in September nineteen eleven that she was getting top billing on vaudeville stages and the highest pay quote, keeping pace with Bert Williams, and in an article for Yale University's Black Acts Archive, Wells Thorn writes that this was quote no mean feat, as Williams was otherwise unrivaled among the black

theatrical community in prestige, popularity, and income. Her prominent place on the bills is also indicative of a high degree of star power. Bert Williams never received top billing until the fall of nineteen fourteen, So she's I mean, crushing it in every way. And she then blew everyone's minds in nineteen twelve when she announced that she would be performing the popular salam A opera dance of the seven Vale at Amerstein's Victoria Theater. I know that one, yeah, right,

heard of that? So there was like a bugs Bunny or something really got from I'm saying looney two in terms of cultural education, who knew about opera because of Bugs Bunny? Hello for anything else? Good old bugs, thank you. I didn't know anything about duck season nor rabbit season before I watched Elmer Fudd was a real teacher for me. Now, I is version of this dance had premiered in Bandana Land in nine seven, but this would be the first performance of it for white audiences. And this dance was

sexually charged and titillating. It actually caused the Met Opera to shut down Salome after a single mind. They were like too sexy for them, Met, and that naturally kicked off a salomania craze all over vaudeville, because of course, everyone wants to see a show that you can't talk to one night because it's too sexy. They're like, let

me check that sh it out. So for white women who performed this dance, they would be as sexy and risky as possible with it, and it would kind of show how modern they were, you know, the new century woman, and they were able to like hike up their skirt a little more, show your world to me. But of course Aida knew that she could not perform that the same way because black women in general, and black actresses in particular, we're already seen as like over sext and immoral.

And I Eta believe that performing arts could combat stereotypes. We've seen that throughout her whole career. She wrote in nineteen o five quote, I ventured to think and dare to state that our profession does more towards the alleviation of color prejudice than any other profession among black people, which I think is true because again you're touring around, so you get to see a lot of people and

present to them a different story. I mean, the world is so much about stories we're telling ourselves, and so it's really I think that's so powerful that she recognized how much I mean, all three of them did. Yeah, Well, your geography can do so much to shape your worldview because you're so limited in your experiences sometimes or you never see people who don't look like you, so all you have to go on is the stories you've been

told and taught. And so then a touring show comes to town and you watch it and you're like, oh, these are wonderful people doing an amazing thing. Maybe I should rethink the nonsense to have been taught my whole life. So she's looking at the existing stereotypes and she's seeing

the power of performance. But she knows that she couldn't present an erotic dance like white performers could, right, So instead she created this dramatic character piece out of it, and she would convey the thoughts and the emotions of the Salome character. Wells Thorn writes, quote the performance of classical dance by a black woman on a concert stage shared by white actors was considered controversial and even shocking.

Certain types of high art, such as drama and classical dance, were at the time off limits to African Americans, who were thought to be better suited to lower entertainments such as comedy and ragtime. Now, of course, a lot of people were opposed to this before Mints, but money talks, and after a single performance, her engagement was extended from one to three weeks, making her the first black woman to be accepted as a classical high art dancer and choreographers. Incredible,

um A, just the reinterpretation is brilliant. That's something that if I just saw two performers do side by side to that, I'd be like, oh wow, look at this sexy seven day Veils dance. That's exactly what it's supposed to be. I can't imagine it any other way. And then some brilliant person comes out and is like, actually I'm redoing this as a dramatic character piece. I'd be like, damn, where'd you come up with that? That is clever and brilliant,

and I love it. I love I mean, I love re genrefying things, you know, turning stuff on its head. That's that's so fun. It's like cover songs, you know, like I want to hear a country version of this song or whatever. I love that stuff when they cut a trailer to make it look like a horror but right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But then taking something like this and then utilizing it for such a cultural purpose beyond just your own reinterpretation, there's actual Like I'm i have a serious, valuable message to do, and I'm undermining your existing stereotypes by presenting you with something you weren't expecting. There's so much to it's and I have the talent to choreograph and to blow your fucking mind with it and pull it off.

And you can't deny me, but to choreographic and to perform it, right, That's all three of them were, Like, I'm just gonna be so good that you can't deny me. You simply can't. Right. That is all those to it. You can try all you want, but they're gonna put my name bigger than yours, trust me. Now. Her next

ambition was to produce her own vaudeville show. So she had her own company and she's appearing in other shows, but she wanted to like actually do the lineup herself, get the space, you know, handle that her own vaudeville show, and she premiered her show in Chicago with a copany of twelve. The Chicago Defender wrote in their review, quote, here we're arraid the cream of Budvillians, headed by the

divine Aida. There is but one thing that is a bit disappointing, and that is that she doesn't appear often enough on the bill. And this reviewer Alfred Anderson, said that Aida was quote the last word in the realms of our dramatic art, and also pointed out that her talents had not faded over the years. Quote how her art endures and passes the acid test of changing moods and fickle calls. She commands our admiration and highest praise.

She was also being frequently invited to prominent white gatherings teach them dances that could do at their parties. And I love this idea of a bunch of white people being like, listen, ladies, gentlemen, I'm very excited to tell you that we have the one and only I don't Overton Walker here and she's gonna teach us a really fun dance that we can do together. I'm so excited because now my party is the hit of those STU. You can just imagine them all like learning that little TikTok.

Oh my god, Gerald, am I doing it right? You look smashing? Honey, She's terrible. It's just like great, Yeah, nope, that's right. Maybe lift your foot up a little bit. No, okay, hey, you're doing a great job. I'll take cash, please, thank you,

and I'll come back tomorrow. But I love too that it was like such a thing for white hostesses that like they were like, if my party is going to be really cool and people are gonna be talking about my party, I gotta have I to come and teach us a fun dance, different and special and it really makes me stand out right. Probably some exploitation going on there, well, at least some hints of, but yeah, definitely, yeah, definitely. I mean she wasn't invited to the party, right there?

Is that now? Not only was she going to these parties to teach dances and make their parties cooler, but Ida was also keeping the Williams and Walker dream alive to create more opportunity and prosperity for black performers. Now, at this point, the Frogs was still going strong helping black men, who was their main membership, so I e

to put her focus on black women. According to an article by David Soren and the University of Arizona's website, she raised a lot of money for the Industrial Home for Colored Working Girls, which was a place that helped black women who were new to New York find lodging and employments, because a lot of times you show up in New York and you're a woman alone, you're exploited by the first person who finds you, you know, and

that could just suck up your whole life. Write or like, the only job you can find is that the ship factory, you know whatever. Yeah, hey, honey, you want to be a star colored me start folding these boxes any day now. We're gonna call you next week about an audition, right and yeah. I Eta would help them find theater jobs, and she also produced and choreographed shows for emerging black

dance troops to showcase their original creative talent. So again, I think that was part of part of the impetus to put together her own vaudeville show, was to be able to put on the bill. Look, these are young girls that are doing something cool. Let me lend my star power to them and get them going. You know, I love that regular Reese Witherspoon. I think about ibously about Denzel Pan for Chadwick's stuff like that, where it's like, just I want I want to bring up more talent.

It's not just about me. I want I want you to see that. It's widespread in my community that black people are very talented and you've got a lot to offer, and you know you're limited, and you're thinking, and I have to show you over and over and over again, which is a little tiresome. I wish we'd just learn the and lesson. But that's what I kind of made me think of, definitely, and thank god he did that. I love Chadwick. He did so many good shows. God

Mo Rainy, it was so good. George Walker, you know, thinking about Chadwick a lot because actually Bert Williams too. Nobody knew Bert was sick um and he was sick. He just kept it to himself and kept working, which reminded me a lot about Chadwick because he was like, let me just I know I've got us. You know, my time is short and I want to get as much in there as I can get. I want Tony May holding me back or not offering things because they think I'm gonna go in the middle of it or something.

I'm gonna just do everything I can do so much. I know, when Black Panther two comes out, I will cry. I will that trailer. I mean just I cried at the trailer. Yeah, and again even even that. I mean, you know, Marvel heads here. But like we said, we watched we watched mo Rainy's Black Bottom what during the pandemic, I think, and I was just like so upset, as like it's you know, reminded me a lot when He's Ledger died. When you're like, because a few years earlier,

I did not know about Chadwick Boseman. A few years before Heath Ledger, I didn't think much of him, you know. I was like, I didn't like a Night's Tale, and I thought he was just like the pretty boy doing stuff. But by the time he died, he had been cranking out. Both of them had given such intense and incredible performances, and you're like, I just want to see where this go.

I mean, you know, for a really crude comparison, it's like your favorite show getting canceled when you're like, I really wanted to see what season six this was, like, you know, like, uh, you know, obviously it's a person's life, so it's different than that, but that sort of thing, or just like I just wanted to see what was next. It was gonna be I was gonna enjoy it, That was gonna be a positive experience in my life, and I'll never get it. So much to offer, and we

only got very short window, and I'm glad. I'm glad we got what we got. You know, I can't imagine. Sometimes I just think about how tired he must have been. I mean, stage four cancer and he's on a set, you know, for fucking twelve hours, fourteen hours, I mean, and and people have really I guess didn't know. So he was not only giving you a good performance, but he was performing on top of that performance that he was okay to give that performance. I mean, I just

have blown away by Chadwick Boseman. I do cry when I think about him, because he just so many good projects and cool things and great stories that we no longer get to have about him, unfortunately. And going back to George, you know, Similarly, people were in love with him, Like people were so drunk with his talent and the shows he's putting out, and he was clearly doing a lot for the industry, uh and really like bringing something new to the table. And then he's taken away too soon.

Maybe a little more by his own behaviors, but um, but even still, you know how heartbreaking for his fans and the people who cared about him and looked up to him and were inspired by him. Is like that's all I got, um, you know, which again comes back to what must have been so wonderful about seeing II to perform as him. I love it. I love it.

And it's likely that we would all be a lot more familiar with Aida Overton Walker's name and talent if she, like George, had not passed away tragically young, because of course, she was a lot younger than him. But in nineteen fourteen, she was only thirty four years old, and she died suddenly of kidney family and she was widely mourned as having died before reaching the height of her career, much like a lot of the people we've been talking about.

Chicago Defender wrote quote, she died young before her star had reached its zenith, and the Philadelphia Tribune said that she remained quote in a class by herself, second to none in her line of work. Writer N. H. Jefferson wrote, quote, through all of the obstacles that confronted her and the misportunes that befel her success always crowned her efforts. And I think, just like we're feeling right now, she always

left audiences wanting more. Yeah, I mean nice or do and like, like to your point, it's not just about the performances that were lost and the plays that were lost because all of these folks died younger than they should have, but the changes to the industry that they would have made. I mean, imagine if they had managed, if they had lived to to be seventy eight years old, the things they could have done within theater with the

power that they had. I mean, and who knows, like we've seen hubrists takedown many a character through history, so who knows, they might have got two coffee or become assholes in some way or anything. But you know, if if they were anything like this, I just feel like they could have made some real int hence changes to that industry long before they actually came around eventually, right,

where would be where would we be today? Right? Or maybe they would have moved to pictures, you know, talking pictures, he started doing some of that stuff, like who knows, But it would have been great to see Bert get to a point where he didn't have to wear a black face anymore to perform, because he wore black face in the Silent films as well, because that's what I guess people are just used to seeing him that way.

So that's my character, so strange to me, but yeah, that is the story of George Walker and Ida Overton Walker and Bert Williams and vaudeville at the turn of the century. Amazing, amazing stuff. So so as very often is the case in this show, I knew so little, very little about this that I'm you know, I know, there's only so many school days in a year, there's only so many minutes per class. You got to go

from war to war. She is somebody couldn't emit dropped these names at some point, been like, hey go go lick these people up. Yeah, check it out. This is what this is what biopics are for, you know, a loose version of some fascinating person's life. That you can then go read up on and say, well, that wasn't very accurate, But now I know, yeah, yeah, exactly without the biopics, so that I can then read the Medium article about all the things that got wrong. That's what

I'm looking for. That's an education. You know, let's open our school at forty two. But then you have to go read about Jackie anyway, it was so great. I wondered too. I was going to ask earlier when we were talking about how she just outshined everyone and had so much more success in her business. And there's got to be an element too of just like, well, was there room for more than one black woman star in

that industry? Like it's not not any fault of her own, but like it was gonna be on person at most, you know, just that she had to be so impressive just to break into that position. Uh didn't mean that there weren't other people probably as talented as she was. Um, you know, but it's just like, well, we're how many people were probably told we've already got an Aida, you know, right, Sorry, Yeah, I don't care what you can do. We've already got one. Um,

which often happens still today. I mean in many cases, not just in terms of race or anything like that, but just you know, you'll, yeah, you'll have agents tell you already got somebody looks like yeah. I've had so many people say we've already got up Paul Rudd, you know, and they send me back and, um, what what's that face, Diana?

What is it? You made a face? They said, They said, We've already got a Paul d I was talking to Paul Rudd's agents and he said, I'd love to help you out, but I already got a guy looks just like got an aunt man. That's so funny. But I know I was thinking about like Dax, was it Dax Shephard? Talking about um him and Zach Braff, Zach Brafe, And I don't know, but he was just like, you know, a tall guy with brown hair. Oh, here we come again. He said his mom, I thought that Zach Braff was

him on a billboard. She like called him and I was like, I saw you on a billboard. He's like, Mom, that's Zach Braff, his own. Oh that's too good. I guess I've just always kind of thought about that in terms of how we rate famous actors as the greatest actors, Like we really default to that, like, oh, the best actor, right, Oh, Andrew Garfield is just doing things. No one says that, you know what what pick a name like a year and he's the best actor in the world right now.

And I'm like, there's probably some kid or some some grown person in a small town in Michigan who is the best actor in the world, and you out, but maybe this person doesn't want to be an actor or

something or just never never tried to do anything. But the community theater they do and we're all missing it because it's you know, it's just such a silly thing to quantified and how can you It's so subjective right well, that it is so dependent on what you like and what what speaks to you and all that kind That's why I wish the Oscars would do. I wish that they would do the Emmys thing and say Outstanding Performance by an Actor and not Best Actor, because that's how

do you come on? Seriously, you want to put Denzel up against Jack Black and I don't think Jack Flacks ever been nominated for Best Actor. But you know what I mean, though, why not? Like what what what's the comparison? Well, yeah, I mean, what in School of Rock, Jack Black gave such an incredible performance, but it's the kind of it.

But it's the kind of performance that you wouldn't give an oscar to, even though he probably achieved what he was going for better than some actors in some intense drama that make you weep, you know, like a whole different conversation. A lot of actors say that they're like, they find comedy so much harder than drama, but it is not at all respected on the same level as

dramatic acting. Um to be able to the timing and the delivery and everything about comedy is so invisible, and it's you only notice it when it's not doing it right. Where I think I used to say, like, dramas don't have to make you cry to be good, but a comedy has to make you laugh. And it's just two different things that people can't quantify it the same way. I as an actor myself, find them equally effortless, of course,

which is why again it's hard. It's hard to me and Paul to exist in the same industry exactly exactly. But you know, we get by who am I like to get by? Who are you like well, obviously, especially when you were younger, you got the sissy SpaceX thing. Yeah, just one, but just just or twice. But you guys shared a look when you had long hair and when from her when she was like carry era like'll they'll

definitely were like in a category together, um. But otherwise I think of you as a very um you know, Angelina Jolie meets um meets um, Kristen Shawl meets um meets um, like Lupizza, Niongo. You know, wow, somewhere in there, those are some good names. Yeah, just a dash of like Gary Busey because you've got that crazy. No, I'm going back, I'm going you got that crazy in your eyes. That's true. That's true. I did play a cult leader

once and I was pretty proud of it. You were a great and I seeing you played an old man several times. True. True, and I have big teeth, So there you go. Basically, I remember your agent saying we've already got a I was like, hello, can I please perform? And they were like, sorry, girl, sorry, I've already got Gary. Although he's in big trouble right now and it's I don't think it's the first time. Anyway. No, I don't want to talk like Gary. Also don't want to be

anything like Gary Busey. So we will have a conversation off Mike about that. I'm just kidding. Record everything. That's what people want to hear. Let's throw down. How dare you, sir? I'm not taking it back. I got my heels in. I said, if if Angelina, Jolie, Kristin Shaw and Lupete and youongo the three points of the tri force don't offset the Gary, the dash of Gary Busey, then I don't know what to tell you. I guess I guess I'll accept the dash of Gary Busey. Geez, this is it.

You know. I do such nice things and then one little thing really gets meez. I cook every meal in this house. That's right. The one little mention at Gary Busey, and I'm in the doghouse. We gotta get out of here. It's so true. We're talking about this. We left the subject so long ago. I know it. But I hope that y'all loved them as much as I do. I'm like searching my brain for people to write a play about them and can produce it and take it to Broadway.

Where they belong. Damn it um, But please reach out and tell us what you think about this this episode and what you thought about the Walkers and Burt Williams and if you have opened up your heart to night in tends music a little hard to get into, but it has its chart. Maybe I was so we got the swing revival, but when did we get like the nineteen tens like old timey know, right? Where's the talking real? Yeah? I'm ready. I don't know, I'm ready. We just need

some bold band to put out one album. I guess there's kind of a variety show. You could say, like late night shows are sort of our Fraudeville revival. No, I'm talking about the music specifically. I see it like I want somebody to do an album, like we all yeah, come on, somebody do. I will listen at least once. It's probably why they haven't done it yet. Time so like that won't pay recording. But yeah, please reach out. Let us tell what you thought about these at episodes

and who you think we should tackle next. Our email address is Ridick Romance at gmail dot com. Find us on Twitter and Instagram. I'm at Oh great, it's Eli. I'm at dat Boom and the show is at ridic Romance. Don't forget to hit us up with a review on Apple podcast, Rate us on Spotify. Tell all your friends to listen to the show. We missed them. We want them here with us. Thanks for tuning in. We'll catch you all on the next one. Love you bye, so

long friends, it's time to go. Thanks so listening to our show. Tell your friends name's Uncle's in dance to listen to our show. Ridiculous roll Nance