Dame Alice Kyteler: Boss Witch & Killer of Kilkenny

handed this year. That would really creep people out. Kids would come up on the porch. Yeah, I would hand him candy with my left hand and they'll scream and run away. What a freak. It's just one of those costumes. You think everything is normal and then left hand I should You're the laziest costume. I also wouldn't be able to do it very well. My left hand is useless completely. I can do nothing with my left hand. I can't write with my left hand, but I feel like I

do other things with it. I mean I type with it. I was going to say it does the left side of the keyboard, okay, um or a game controller, you know, like just just hang there no, no, I don't let it atrophy. But if you, if you were like quick, use your left hand to accomplish this basic task or the world will end. Like I'm very sorry everyone, but we had a good run. That's it. Goodness I do when I paint my nails, When I paint my right hand,

it's markedly worse I paint my left hand. You know, it's just not side of my brain that I exercise very much. I do feel like it's probably something you can with a concerted effort, learned, sure extress. Maybe I feel like those whatever, those neurons, those nerves, those signals are already like hardened into place at my age, Like I don't think hard. Yeah, there's no flexibility in like the signals my brain is sending at this point, realized brain as hard as a rock. Definitely. Point is it's

Halloween almost, it's Friday. Uh, feeling good, feeling spooky. That means we've got two more recryptulous stories to tell you, and we have a great one for you today. Very excited about this one. The year is four, the place Ireland spooky. Dame Alice Kitler was on her fourth husband and all her stepchildren were pissed at her forgetting all

of their various dad's money after they die. But when her fourth husband started getting mysteriously ill, they decided Alice was disposing of her husband's in the most expedient way she could, with the help of a demon, of course, But it was her maid Petronella to me who would suffer most from their accusations. Let's hear about Dame Alice Kitler, the first recorded person to be condemned for witchcraft in Ireland. Let's go hated friends, Eli, and welcome to Hell. There's

no matchmaking a romantic you were lying in crypt. I love my dear demonic too, but if there's a sputed with the ship entroduction and I have three. Alice Kitler was born in twelve sixty three and kill, Kenny County, Ireland, to Kenny County. Her family were will to do merchants and she made a good marriage in twelve eighty to William Outlaw. But I know I love it. Another wealthy merchant and money lender, money lender named Bill Outlaw. Sure, yeah,

I'll borrow some money from Bill Outlet. Uh where did this money come from? Bill Outlaw? No reason, just asking, no questions asked, goes both ways, sir. They had one son together, also named William Outlaw because that's a pretty cool name. Sure, I understand why you might. Will passed that one on Bill Outlaw Jr. And they possibly had a daughter named Rose as well, but that's not certain.

But after only five years together, Papa Outlaw died and Alice and her son inherited all his money and property opened a tavern called Kitler's Inn, which is still an operation today, and they were on their own for a few years until thirteen o two when she married her second husband, Adam Blunked, another money lender. He had children from a previous marriage, like Alice, so they had like a Brady Bunch situation going on. Nice combined mixed family. Now,

their marriage did start off a little rocky. It's not recorded exactly why, but there must have been some mysterious circumstances surrounding William outlaw seniors death, because Alice and Adam faced brief accusations of murdering him together, but they both had some powerful friends in the area. The accusations didn't stick and I didn't last long. Alice's son, William Outlaw, was declared an adult thirteen o three, and he even

became the mayor of Kilkenny in thirteen o five. Now, he and his mother participated in the family business of money lending, with William declaring in thirteen o three that he was guarding three thousand pounds of their money. Now, this is a time when a day's wage for a laborer was between one and one and a half pennies per day Damns would make. Yeah, and he's got three thousand pounds. I love this penny and a half. Imagine getting your raise, your halfpenny raised more. Pardon your best hat.

I got my happenny raised. Heady, We're going down to the pub test celebrate. Who finally a mom worth some money? A modest substance. I told mom one day he'd get that happenny raise. He's like, drink, are on me? Just one drink. We're all gonna share it. Blitter glass please. Okay. So the money lending, the merchant trade business, this was booming. Yes, Now Alice's combined little family, the Outlaws and the Blund's, they were doing all right. They had a whole life

of prosperity. They were living large. Yeah, doing fine. Until around seven when Adam blund died, Alice's stepchildren were dismayed to discover that their father had signed over all his money, jewels, and property to his stepson William Outlaws and canceled all William's debts to him. Alice and William would get everything. The Blundy bunch were suspicions. They said, this don't all right. Why would their father leave no provision for them in

favor of a non blood relation. Did they suck? I know, right, maybe they sucked because I mean maybe they sucked because no moves were made against Alice quite yet. So they were like Dad had a lot of reasons, stayed each and everyone. I'm writing you outoy, will and I'm giving it all to be stepson. Yes, may money's called going to the outlaws, the knives out situation like you know what, actually don't like any of y'all. Now. By thirteen o nine,

Alice had married her third husband, Richard Duval. He was a wealthy landowner in County Tipperary. I hope he was in better health, just like I gotta check up before I marry again, right, I mean a twice widowed woman. Maybe there's no suspicion because a lot of times. It doesn't say how old any of these guys are there, but I was like, surely she married older men, probably especially her first husband, because that's just common at the time.

So maybe it was like, well whatever, they were probably old enough to be your father. And he eventually died, just like normal ship husbands die, oh the time. Now, in her marriage with Richard Daval, she gained a few more step children, including her new husband's eldest, also named Richard Deval. Not a lot of originality in their naming. It was like, it's like the Targarians, all right, but so confusing though We've got seven names and we just try and cycle through them. Not that, but Ray boots

and sequels with these guys. And it was Richard Jr. Who would kick off the trouble with Alice because when Papa Deval passed away in we all predicted he would, Alice decided to use the legal system against the Devall children to get her widows dower. A widow's dower is basically money that a wife is entitled to in order to support herself after her husband's death, and that's kind of in case he he forgot to make a will and didn't make any provision for her, so that she

would normally inherit whatever he want it or two. So usually the default widow's dower was about one third of the husband's estates. Now, clearly Alice had not gotten Papa d Vall to sign everything over to her or her son William outlaw by the time he died, so she had taken up with the courts. But this might have been a mistake on her part because Devall's children, particularly Richard Jr. Were furious about this. Without her interference, they

would have inherited their father's money and property. But Alice managed to snatch it up through the legal system, and she wasn't worried. She got her dower and she just moved right on. In fact, she married again in the same year, this time to a man named John Lapore p o e R. But he was not John l p o o R. He was and he also had some children of his own from a previous marriage. So she's got so many stuff children. Man, at this point, this is the modern family I'd like to watch. Now.

By now, Alice is fifty three years old, so she doesn't need to be married for the traditional reasons. Right, She's got her own money, she runs her own business with her son William. She's comfortably established, and she's past child marrying age. But who's the same. She might have just wanted some companionship. Of course, she might have met this guy and he was super charming and she loved him. Yeah, that's perfectly reasonable. Why not happens all the time exactly.

She could just want someone hand to hold in her golden years, feed the pigeons something. But it was Hella suspicious to everyone when John, a few years into their marriage, started getting sick. He was weak and emaciated, His hair and nails were falling out. These were symptoms of arsenic poisoning, and he started complaining to children about his health. He even confided his suspicions, then, maybe Alice is poisoning me

right now. But even so, shortly before his death in four he changed his will to favor Alice and her son William Law, cutting out his other children completely. So the Lapoor's decided to reach out to the Divalls and the Bloody bunch and say, hey, you know, you all don't have any reason to think that your step mom killed your dad's do you. And of course They all had the same exact reasons. Absolutely have the same reason

to say it. But yes, I think she did kill him because only Alice and her son William profited from their debts. So the step children decided that Alice was a cold blooded killer, and she was marrying and discarding wealthy husbands so she and her son could get the Irish black widow. That's right. So what do you do when an older woman crosses you and it's hundreds Well, there's one obvious course of action. You accuse her of witchcraft, of course, no brainer. Now we should note that men

and women back then were being accused of witchcraft. It wasn't as much of a gendered term then as it is now. Still predominantly fell on women, definitely, yeah, but was it was not exclusively a term referring to women. Now, all these step children decided that Alice had been using some kind of sorcery to attract her husband's and get them to sign over all their worldly property to her and her son. But at the time witchcraft actually had

different connotations. Now, paganism might have been largely stamped out by this point, but it's still had strong roots and for medieval people Witchcraft was not only real, but he was actually pretty important. Like poor people who couldn't afford doctors would rely on medicines that were made by quotes good witches through their work with herbalism and what they called white magic. But those witches were also like a

convenient scapegoat when something went wrong. So even though they're like, oh, I'm feeling ill, to go down and see the witch and see what they've got for me to take, and then they take something and they're like, oh, I don't feel so good now, or you know that I got no, I got diarrhea. That witch she hursed me, and she's like, that's what the pust's supposed to do. Yeah, it's getting out for all the stuff that can you feel bad,

all those poison berries. Yet ate the dumbass. So you never knew being a witch people love you one day, people hate you the next day. Sounds a lot like being a podcaster. Um oh yeah, real, they're really coming after us. But according to History Ireland dot com, the accusation of witchcraft was usually treated as pretty much a

petty criminal offense. So the kids in accusing her are probably thinking, yeah, Alice left to go pay some fines, she'll give us some of our money back, and then maybe she will spend a year or two in jail. Worst case scenario, just a cute little witchcraft accusation. Everybody does it, no problem. But the attitude towards witchcraft was taking a hard turn, led by the Church, and we will find out more about that right after this commercial break welcome back, which is for a long time, the

Church actually had no official position on magic um. It just didn't believe magic existed, Like, yeah, it's just some folk rituals and superstitions, nothing serious. Who cares what you're telling me that the Church didn't like something, So they just pretended it didn't exist. Sure, hard to believe, I know, but that's what they did. So it wasn't until the late thirteenth century that they began to view magical rituals

with suspicion. Pope Alexander the Fourth decided in twelve that the Church should probably handle all accusations of witchcraft because it's smacked of heresy, so it shouldn't be left to secular They hate heresy. It was like the thing they hate the most. It's the number one thing they hate, and that actually paved the way for the inquisition. Witchcraft

started to be tied to Satan worship. Um people started to believe that witches got their powers from demons that they would call into the physical realm and then bind to them in various ways, and how they got their power. You're telling me that the church didn't like something so they decided to say that it was satan worship. I hate to lob wild accusation at the church, but in this case, Yeah, it's very clear that that's exactly. I guess that this would be the only time they ever

did that. Just the ones though, Yeah, exactly. They really learned from this one. Now. Even though the Inquisition wouldn't really heat up pun intended for another century or so, there were some adherents to church law who were very enthusiastic about prosecuting these witchcraft charges, including the guy Alice's stepchildren took their accusations to the Bishop of Ossory, Richard Lidredd. Wow, between him and the outlaws, everybody's just really living up

to their names here. Richard L. Dread had been made a bishop thanks to Pope John the twenty Is that real that many John's Yeah, it's now that's what I called Pope. Well, Pope John was real scared of witches because back when John was just a bishop, someone had tried to assassinate him using poison and sorcery, or probably just poison is my guess. So he was convinced that witches were out to get him. He told everyone that under his watch, witchcraft was heresy and the inquisitors should

investigate any charges of witchcraft using any means necessary. If anyone was caught studying, practicing, or even talking about using witchcraft, they would be excommunicated. Now, Richard Ladrette was like drooling about this. This sound yes, Pope John, Yes, say more.

There can be no stone intended for order. So he was on board, and he was this really over zealous kind of guy, total teacher's pet right, and he believed in the ultimate authority of the church and their right to apply their authority with what have a thought they wanted. So when Richard Jr. And all the other stepchildren came to him with their accusations, they were like, Hey, our stepmom's a witch. Why don't you go slap her on

the wrist? Ladrette was more than ready to help prosecute her and anyone in her orbit to the full extent of the law, and this included all of the servants who worked at Kitler's in they were seen as followers of Alice Kitler. They laid out seven accusations against Alice.

One denying the how are of Christ and of the Church, because during this period of history, if you were not, like if you renounced your faith or you said you're questioning anything, you were basically seen as shifting toward devil worship. It was like you were with God or you were with the devil. There's no other place for you to go. Number two cutting up animals to scatter at crossroads as

sacrifices the demons. I kind of wonder about this one, because really they saw some like animal parts at crossroads. I don't think they necessarily did. I guess I think they could have just said it. They could have just said it, I'm just gonna have chicken. Yeah, we already cleaned it up right. Three having them sex with the incubus Robin or Robert artisan. This is a demon. The incubus was a demon. The incubus's name is Robert. Yes, I think that's why I love Robin, because it's a

derivative of Robert. I guess he's like Robin. Now. This demon took the form of a cat, a shaggy dog, or a black man, usually depicted as a Theopus, the mystical founder of Ethiopia. Okay, they were like, we need to make sure there's some racist ship in here too. It's been a while since we've been racist. I imagine that they're talking to they're talking to Richard the Dread and they're like, and the demon. Sometimes he would show up as a cat and Richard the dreadline and they're like, oh,

sometimes it was a shaggy dog, got anything else? And sometimes he would be our black back. Oh my goodness. Done before healing the church keys and holding secret coven meetings with her followers at night, including her maid Petronella Demi and many others, burning candles without permission, heinous crime, and holding rituals to undermine and awe overpower the church. Five asking demons were invited on witchcraft, no asking. If you've got to do it, you better do it yourself.

Alice is like, well, who am I supposed to ask? I'll still have dear dear Abberdon, my son and I are having a bit of a spat. And the sixth accusation laid against Alice bewitching and killing her husband's to take their money for herself and her son, William Outlaw. It's right there in his name. That one seems like the most obvious, probably the most legit charge of the seventh. She definitely been tried to kill, killed at least one

of those guys, and probably all of them. I think she did do station nothing, she damn Okay, alright, alright, gloves are off, We're out of the train now, okay.

And the seventh and final accusation was that she and her followers had placed the intestines and internal organs of roosters, what words, nails cut from dead bodies, and the hair from the buttets and clothes of boys who had died before being saptized, mixed all of these and the decapitated skull of a Robert, and then created potions that incited people to love, hate, kill, and afflict Christians. Why incredible stuff? What a what an ingredients list? Imagine showing up at

the Farber's market with that. Let's see, I need some roosters. Okay, you've got chickens that's fine, that's fine. Um, how about some worms. Okay, maybe bait shop kind of stuff. Um, you got any nails cut from dead bodies. While you're on those bodies, you flip over to the buttocks and get me some of the hair. Yeah, I need butt hair from an unbaptized boys. But I've dout tot frog hair of and baptized boys at a little car to mom. In fact, some of those ingredients were actually immortalized in

William Butler Yates poem nineteen hundred and nineteen. So let's hear that section with just a quick stop in poetry corner. But now wind drops, dust settles thereupon there lurches past his great eyes without thought, under the shadow of stupid straw pale locks, that insolent fiend Robert Artisan, to whom the love lord Lady Kitler brought bronzed peacock feathers, red combs of her cocks. He's like saying roosters, But what I mean is people sticks in her hands. She did

do it with this guy. Also, Also, I love these stupid blonde hair. That's ugly blonde hair. So well, that was sexy stuff for La Darette. He proceeded to immediately a call for Alice's arrest. He wrote to the King Chancellor in Ireland, citing the decreetl inquisitiontionis from and this stated that for the protection of the faith, secular powers needed to obey bishops and arrest any accused and deliver

them into the power or prisons of the bishops. Now, History Ireland dot Com writes, quote la Drede quoted this decreetle on every possible occasion. Therein lay the seeds of conflict because the secular powers, which was like the legal system in Ireland, they didn't think that they should have to arrest anyone simply on the word of the bishop. Right, the church and state battle going on here, and the

true struggle here wasn't really about Alice at all. It was actually about how much authority the church should have over the law. And unfortunately for Ladred, the chancellor he wrote to was Roger Outlaw, Alice's first husband's brother, and he was actually on Alice's side. I guess he didn't think she killed his brother, or he didn't like him either way enough that it was like that's my family, and who then are you? Yeah, it worked out so

that instead of immediately arresting Alice like Leadrette wanted. Roger told him to go kick Rocks. He's like, nobody, I don't want to hear from you again. Okay, you and your silly hat can go yes right now. Obviously Leadrede is like, no, I'll never dropped this case. Our immortal souls are in peril, and I demand you hand over the witch Alice Kitler in the name of the Pope,

Daddy John, I mean Pope John the Second. I love that Pope, and the Pope loved him back who they were just birds of a feather, had a good thing going on. So Roger outlaws like okay, okay, sure, saying let me do that. Oh whoopsie doodle. Turns out there's nothing Roger can do until he held a public prosecution, excommunicated all the accused witches, and also let forty days

go by. Roger was like, I'm reading through everything. Sorry, section appendix nine subsection, but inc was probably still wet on it because he had written it out. So the dreads like okay, fine, and he immediately sent a summons for Alice to appear before him for judgment. But Alice had already fled from Kilkenny, probably to Dublin, likely to Roger Outlaws own house. So on the day that Alice was supposed to appear, Rogers sent advocates to kill Kenny

in her place to speak on her half. Okay, But even though she wasn't there, Ladred followed the legal procedure to the letter and excommunicated Alice and also charged her son, William Outlaw, with herresy as well as harboring and protecting heretics. And he announced a date when William would also have to appear before him, you know, to be judged and excommunicated.

But Ldred should maybe have done his homework because the centechal a k a. The leading legal official a k a. The head bitch in childe was Arnold Lapore, another powerful friend of the Kittler. No way her like fourth husband's relative. Yeah wow, felt if I just marry everyone in town, relatives with everyone, everyone will be in my family and they cannot speak against me in the court of law. Damn. Alice was thinking ahead. She's real canny now. Unlike Roger,

Arnold did not respond to Ladred was legal runarounds. Instead, he just arrested the bishop and imprisoned him until William's court data passed. Arnold was like, I tolerate no bitches. I'm ambishops. Excuse me, man, the lapours they don't look

around now. History Ireland explained that this was actually a pretty dangerous move for Arnold de Paul because there was in eleven thirty nine ecclesiastical law forbidding the laying of violent hands on monks or clerics, and only the Pope himself could absolve someone of this crime because it was so serious. So Ladredd decided to make sure that he had every single receipt for this little transgression when the

Sheriff Stephen Lapore family affairs go. When he arrived with his men, ladredde took the warrant and he showed it to everyone present, and he said, excuse me, do you recognize the seal on the warrant as belonging to Arnold Lapore. I just want to get some witnesses here. This is Arnold's warrants, right, you see it? You see it? I see it, okay, And then he put the warrant in his pocket so that he could use it to prove Arnold's offense in court. When Sheriff Stephen Lapore suggested that

he simply pay the medieval equivalent of bail. Ladredde refused because you see, that would have been an admission that Arnold was entitled to arrest him. It's like when you apologize for something, and it's like you're admitting that you did wrong. So then once Ladred was in jail, he placed his diocese under interdict, and this meant that as long as he was imprisoned, no marriages, burials, or baptisms could happen under his diocese, like his whole area. It

was like, I'm freezing funerals. You ain't getting baptized. Tell your babies that I'm so sorry, but they're not going to heave until I get out of jail. You got a problem, I'll tell you who to take it up with. And this was a real problem because medieval people had a total and absolute belief in hell. So this is a really serious thing to have this internet fully afraid that like a baby could die on baptized burning hell, that they could bury, could be buried without their last

rites or something like, you know, they're very scared. Yeah. Now, Ladred also decided to have the host brought to him and in case you're like me and you're not Catholic, and you have no idea what this meant. The host is unleavened bread that represents the body of Christ. I know some churches they take it very literally. Yep, and they that's when you take communion, right, when you get some in your mouth, in the body of Christ and

the blood of Christ with the wine and transubstantiation. Is that that this bread is quite literally Jesus's body, Yes, and this wine is quite literally jesus blood. Um. Now, Ladrette had this super bread brought to him, and by having it with him in prison, he was literally saying that Lapore was in prisoning Jesus. Yeah, which is you know, maybe a thing that medieval people didn't like. And Arnold Lapore didn't like it either. He said, did you a

little bit so Arnold? You know, Arnold's not gonna take that line down. And he decided instead to send a crier around town like, Hey, I've got this really annoying bishop and custody. Anyone else got a complaint they'd like to make about Richard Ladred, Bishop of Ossory. Come on over sign my petition on change dot org. I'm collecting

complaints about this asshole. I mean, he probably did want to have like a pile of evidence against him so that he could be like, this guy's you know, you need to just kick him out once, out of my place, out of my face. And William Outlaw, who was probably you know, having some personal feelings about how the dread was coming after him mom, he went digging and found an old accusation against Richard Ladred that had already been

like canceled and quashed out irrelevant now. So William had it written out nice and fresh, and then he rubbed his shoes on it to make it look aged again. I don't think it's funny that he went to all that. It was like, I need him to be able to read it, but also it has to look old. I don't know anyway. So then he brought this old complaints to Arnold the Poor and said the bishop should have

to answer these charges in a secular court. And Ladred was like, no, I don't have to do a damn thing unless it's in front of the King of England, and even then I don't have to answer the charges of any excommunicated man. So finally Arnold sent his own uncle, who was also a bishop to release the dread from prison. He'd only been in their seventeen days. It's not like he was there for a year, seventeen of the most annoying days of Oh I gotta get rid of But

the dred refused to leave. He said, quote, it will not do for a bishop in prisons for his faith in Christ to walk out of this prison as if he were a thief for murderer, which I just love that he's acting like he was imprisoned for his faith instead of being like a total annoying. Instead, Richard set for all his vestments and he walked out of his cell in his full bishop regel. He wanted people to see they locked up a bishop. Oh yeah, he knew

the power of theater. Yeah. Now, as soon as he was free, Ladrette immediately summoned Alice and William to answer for their heresy, but he was tripped up by a royal writ arriving, and it demanded that he come to Dublin and explain just why you put your diocese on an interdite, as well as to answer complaints that Arnold

Lapoarre had made against him. Now, Ladrette tried to get out of it by sending a proctor in his place, saying that, well, in order to get to Dublin, I'd have to go through Arno Lapore's lands, and I'm afraid for my safety. He's been very main to me, but his excuse was not accepted. He said, pick up your skirts and get over here. His ecclesiastical superior lifted his interdite his diocese. He said, we're getting the we're getting

the babies baptized. Again, enough of the shenanigans, like, calm down, Richard, get back to work. But old Richard Loodred was very stubborn and he would not let this issue go honestly at this point, probably because it was just so personal. Yeah, he hated Alison Williams so much. Oh they got me locked up. People be laughing at me. He is humiliated

by them. Oh yeah. His ego was bruise, very bruise, and he had a very very large ego, and he wanted to make sure that Alison william regretted crossing him. He may have lost the battle, but there would be more, and we'll talk about all that right after this commercial break. We had to come back to the show. You heretics, so Richard Ladred decided to just stir up some ships

that he loves doing that. So as soon as Arnold Lapour's court was in session in Kilkenny, Ladrede showed up uninvited in his full bishop outfit, carrying the host and the inquisitionis decrete hole that he loved so much, and he was accompanied by a bunch of monks and like his entire cathedral chapter, basically just brought his whole squad along and was really feeling himself forced his way into

Arnold's court. Arnold was not amused. He ordered the bishop's ejection, calling him quote an ignorant, low born vagabond from England. And he also told the bishop that he should face his own criminal trial for all these shenanigans and church overreach, which I think was the real issue for Arnold's I think less so was he really that worried about Alice and more he was like, this isn't to your fucking business,

So what are you doing here? I gotta county to run. Here, I'm trying to keep the law in order, and you're coming in here with your insanity and your magic books, kicking dirt all over me, and your English and your English, and your English get out of my Then Ldred held up the host saying, whoa, whoa, whoa. That Christ should be said to stand the bar, a thing unheard of since he stood tchial before conscious pilots the drama. I love him holding the loaf of bread in the air

and like, how dare you do this to Jesus? Not? Oh my god, this guy should have just been for the stage, you know what I mean? He was playing this part to the hill. Oh my god. Then he also he pulled out his decreed all and he's like, Arnold, I know you can read a little, but I'll read this out loud, just so there's no confusion and you can't act like you didn't know what I was talking about. Later at and Arnold's not like that, like dis battle

they're doing. This is like a fun I feel like everyone there was probably just like look like they're at a tennis match. You're like, they're there there, there, there's bookies, they're taking bed. This is the coolest courtroom ever. I got a day's wage on the bishop. All right, that's one and a half pennies on the bishop. A day's wage. What he a fool? But we'll be rich if we win. Shame used to do a happening, I beg of you.

So Arnold was like, oh, each ship I know how to read, got really mad and told him, quote, take your decrets church and preach your sermons there are wow, before trying to have him forcibly removed. But Ladred was carrying the host, so any assault on him was also an assault on the body of Christ. So eventually ladredde left on his own after ordering one more time that Arnold Lapore arrest Alice Kitler and William Outlaw this this relic, this this bread of invulnerability, like you can't touch me

as long as I'm holding this piece of bread. I know it is outrageous. I mean all respect to anyone's religious beliefs, there's nothing wrong with that. It's just this idea that he can just carry it with him wherever he goes and that makes him untouchable. I know. But I had to wonder because they also mentioned that in order to arrest someone, you had to actually play like the sheriff had to place his hand on the horse's bridle or put his staff on them, and that was

how you arrested. So I'm like, sure, there's a lot of symbolism in little in things, and I guess it was important for people to take that pretty literally so that you could actually have those agreements without having anything written down and stuff. But like, come on, it's a loaf of like what if he just left it forgot? Like he lives the church and I left the host. Let's stop by baker like quick, grab a wafer, like

he could just get any bread and say. But I think that's what Arnold, just like the bishop could say anything, and this guy's clearly he has a personal vendetta at that point, Like so even if Alice did kill some folks, she should face justice. But come on, man, like any bishop could name anyone and I would just have to stand aside and without any complaints. That's not cool, like some kind of witch hunt, like some kind of well.

At this point, Alice Kitler sued Ladrette for defamation of character and for excommunicating her, even though she hadn't been present, and the bishop was summoned to the court in Dublin once again. But once again, Richard Ladrette said, new, I'm sending a proctor in my stead. He'll explain my case.

He wouldn't show up in Dublin until he was sure that he had support, and finally he got his wish when he received a royal letter summoning him to appear at the Parliament in Dublin, which would also be attended by a bunch of other bishops. So Ladrette showed up, probably again his full bishop cause play, and William and Arnold showed up too, dressed in the livery of the centis show. So basically they showed up like Allison high Tower in her green gown, like I mean business this

My clothes are a symbol and you bet you best beware. Yeah, it is my house. Now they both got a chance to argue their case, with Arnold telling the court quote, as you well know, heretics have never been found in Ireland, which has all we's been called the Island of Saints. Now this foreigner comes from England and says we are all heretics and excommunicates. Defamation of this country affects every one of us, so we must all unite against this man. But it was obvious that the case was gonna go

in the Dread's favor. After all, there were a bunch of bishops there. In their view insulting and attacking a bishop or any member of the clergy could not be tolerated and was a direct attack on Church and God himself. They're like, well, if they stopped Richard now, then I won't be able to do this exact same thing later.

What if I want to do some overreach as a treat So Ladred was informed that he could pursue his case against Alice William and all the other accused heretics and Kilkenny and basically do whatever he wanted to them. According to historic Kilkenny Dock m Alice William many of her friends and servants were held in medieval dungeons in Kilkenny for the trial, and Ladrede ordered them whipped through the streets, after which Alice Kitler would be burned at

the stake. But Roger Outlaw, the chancellor and relative of Alice and Williams, had other plants and in the dead of night, Alice's guards were beaten senseless and she was free.

Other sources, including History Ireland, says that Alice was never imprisoned, that she fled for England or Flanders with her maid Petronelle's daughter Basilia with her before they ever got a chance to jail her, which kind of makes more sense to me, because I don't know why Roger Outlaw would only free Alice and no one else like her sons still there, everybody else that you know. I just mean,

it's that's very true. So maybe you just got out you know, the central character, right, the one most likely to killed right right, I can see that too, Yeah, or the one that would be the biggest symbol for the Church's power if he did kill her, because again he's he's like, I gotta make sure this doesn't see through to the end, or they're going to feel like they can do whatever they want to us. Yeah, either way, Yeah,

either way. Dame Alice Kittler left Ireland, never to be heard from again, flying away on the broom, pointed hat cackling into the night. Never touched me, but her less wealthy and influential friends and servants still had to face Ladredd's justice, including Petronella dem Richard. Ladredde examined all his accused and used the inquisition, a law that allowed torture because secular law did not. Petronella was tortured into confessing

that she had witnessed and participated in devilish rituals. She gave detailed descriptions of Alice having sex with the demon old Bob Artisan, Bob Artisan sounds of the Toyota company, Bob Artisans for dealership. Petronella also gave details of all the potions and everything that they had made together, her

and the demon. She also said that Alice had put magical ointment on a beam of wood that enabled both women to fly and get this, a pipe with ointment on it was found by Alice's bedside, providing Ladrede a

potent piece of evidence against Alice's devilish doings. But in a surprise twist that you're probably already thinking, many modern scholars believe that this pipe it was not actually a magical broomstick or a wand, but in fact, this cylindrical objects laying on her nights and covered in slippery goo

was actually a dildo. Yeah, it's own kind of Now. Look, maybe Petronella and Alice both had never really had any good sex before, so the first time either one of them orgasm, they were like, I'm flying hundred feet in the air. Or it could just be that Alice actually finding pleasure in sex was enough for the bishop to prosecute and called demonic right because sex was a duty and a chore for women and that they undergo this

just for procreation and no other reason, damn it. So it could be that, or maybe it's just another untruthful, unreliable confession born of torture. As we all know torture, it does not give you reliable confessions. So Petronella might have just been saying whatever she thought. Ladredd wanted to hear obviously to get out of you know, being tortured, okay, seriously. And meanwhile, William Outlaw was arrested as well, but his powerful friends forced the dread to bring his sentence down

from flogging and burning to a simple penance. This actually wasn't that uncommon at the time because Harrisy was seen as a struggle with the devil. It wasn't something irredeemable, so if you were accused, that's why it was sort of a petty thing. It wasn't meant to be some

kind of horrible demonship. It was it was something, Oh, you you need to come back to the light, so they would give you a lot of religious exercises, or you would have to go to mass a lot or something in order to like come on back to come on back to Jesus, Billy or whatever read formatnis. It does make sense because if they're like, the devil is the strongest force of evil in the universe, and it's always trying to convince you to do bad things, and

it's very hard to resist him. And then somebody does something devilish and they're like, you're the worst? How dare you like you just said that it's hard to resist this guy? So that let we know, this is a very human struggle with how much we want vengeance and people to be punished for their crimes, and how much we want them to be rehabilitated and shown compassion and mercies so that they can become better. I think we always have a really hard time walking that line. Do

any line? Honestly, Moderation is not Yeah, So this is what William got. He was told that he had to hear three masses every day for a year, he had to give food to the poor, and he had to pay to have the roof of St. Kennie's Cathedral covered in lead? Were they worried about Superman looking at side? How do they want les? They wanted to let roof. That's a very good question. Actually, they were like, in case we need a fallout shelter, right, fourte century nuclear

bombs might be dropping soon. We never know what you expect from the Normans. But William, all William outlaw, you know, he's incorrigible. And it wasn't long before the Dred heard that William wasn't doing any of that ship. He probably went to three masses the first day and to the second day, and they're like, completely on the Yeah, I got it, I heard you the first time. Three times a day. That's a lot. It is a lot. I mean, come on, but I mean it was supposed to be

a punishment, I guess. But man, they really had nothing to do back then. Who was holding three masses a day? Listen that they did nothing but pray. Let me tell you those nuns and monks they wake up to like three am just to go very quick before they go back to bed. Ah the Lord's work. So anyway, le Dred was like, how dare you special the face of my authority once again, and he had him imprisoned once more,

this rascally rabbit. Now that same day that William was imprisoned again, Petronella de Meath was flogged publicly six times, her crimes and sentence were read out publicly, and she was burned at the stake for heresy on November three. Now, considering that Alice and her friends were the first people condemned of witchcraft in Ireland, it's likely that the way the case was carried out and the punishments that are meeted out to the accused set the precedent for how

all other witchy cases were going to be tried. From then on. The burning of witches would last in Ireland until eighteen. Ladredde Ever explained why Petronella faced such a harsh sentence when everyone else accused were given penances or maybe just whipped but then released. It seems like probably his personal feelings got in the way here and he was just willing to do anything to Alice's closest confidante in Leo, with being able to actually burn Alice herself.

Or maybe he thought that this extremely harsh punishment would make the other accused heretics realize that he meant business and it worked with William at least. William asked the bishop to come visit him in prison, and then he went down on his hands and knees to beg for mercy in front of a bunch of clergy and other people. Ladred probably really enjoyed this uh site because William had had him imprisoned and stuff, so he was like, yes, keep begging me, so he did release him. Um. He

also increased Williams penances. He now required him to visit the Holy Land by the first available boat, and increased the amount of the cathedral's roof that he had to cover in ledge. But in thirty two the roof of the cathedral completely caved in under the weight of the ledge. Was this heavenly irony or was it a magical reminder that Alice was still out there consorting with demons and ready to kill again. You probably have in the irony. It was probably covering your roof in the lead. I

feel like that's right there. You've asked for it. But if you listen carefully on a full moon in Kilkenny County, you can still hear Alice cackling into the winds looking for her next wealthy husband. So if you're a wealthy irishman in Kilkenny County, beware be aware of Dame Alice. Kidlerkler, kiddler, kiddler cool, such a fun story story, sane, which is hers, which isn't weirdos which isn't weirdo? This one and the dread was such a drama queen. Oh my god, what

a character. He continued to be in trouble a lot of his life too, in and out with the king and so on, because he was such a goody two shoes. Don't just act like this for a little while, but this is your whole thing, Yes, this is your whole thing. And he was just so like, how dare about it? Seems like he was just very like just took things really personally. He was very defensive and just like, well,

he's always ready to be offended. He's such a good like TV villain because he's one of these characters that clearly nobody likes. Nobody actually likes him, but he's managed to like manipulate him self into such a powerful position that he's got people backing him up all the time. And he has some layers because you know that he's

pretty sincere. Yeah, I mean he probably was. He definitely had personal feelings, but at least in the beginning, he's like, oh no, this is like a real problem for the church. I've got to like take ki gotta stamp out that witchcraft at the source types that you know, type vibes, and so yeah, I'm sure to him the whole time

he was doing the right thing. I hope after he died, Jesus grabbed him, took him aside and was like, you can't just pick up my bread and walk and wave it around and tell everybody that can't touch you because you're holding on Like I didn't ask for that, dude. I am not your human shield, your bread shield, bread shields. Give me some of that bread. Also, I never took communion. I don't think I have either. I went to Catholic

the thing once where they were doing it. I remember being young, and I was like I didn't know if I could go or not, or if I was if it was weird, or if I did or didn't. So I think I just kind of slumped down in my seat, was like, I don't think I'm supposed to go, but I was, you know, with a friend's family that went to church. My parents never took me. Yeah, I don't.

I think I did this similar where I was like, well I'm this, I'm not sure that this is my religions, so I'm not sure it would be appropriate for me to take part, right, So yeah, I think I was definitely like sitting there, like is it weird if I go? Or is it wrong? Or what? You know? If I don't, it's it weird if I don't do. I'm like, you know, ten eleven years old, do I want to get some of that wine? I don't want to get some of

that I wanted even though it's not good. It's probably not good, right, It's got to be the cheapest wine, right, I guess probably depends on the church. Maybe it depends on the church. There's like really fancy churches with some persecco rose. Well, this is a great story. Uh yeah, I did have its spookiness because these witches murders and the torture and burning fun and it must be said, I really do think Alice was totally a murderer. I think she No, I really do think she sad some justice.

Because that's the other thing that's a little spooky about this is the class implications. Because she was wealthy and she was influential, she had no you know, all the right connections. She completely escaped punishment, but her maid, who likely if she did anything, did it at the behest of Alice, got incredibly punished, like insanely over the top punished. So it's it's a little hard because he knew he could do it to her, nobody would care. He's like, well,

who's going to come for her? No one. I mean I get the brutal example, I get to set with like no consequences basically, whereas Alice some of her family and friends could come for me. I mean, all this help Alice Scott over all these years, and she's like the local money lender. How many people you think she was just like, hey, you say what I need you to say, and maybe I'll take a little bit off of your debt. They're good point, you know, very good point.

Or I'll give you that loan you've been asking for. Yeah, she had a lot of power, yeah, I think so the power to kill, and again like just her family and stuff. And then also all of the emotion about like this is Ireland, what are you doing here? So out of here, let us do our own thing our way, even though that probably wasn't very fair either, because as we see, she had all her family and friends just like killing all these people and im poverishing these step

children with no there just like you. Let us use our corrupt legal system and don't bring your corrupt bishop legal system into it. We don't need to corrupt legal systems going on. At the same time, got enough on my hands. We don't want to double in our troubles. I don't want to be dublin our troubles. Wow, put a card in it, uh, with apologies to the good people of Ireland. It's always on this show. I should have thrown that in the beginning that if you were

still here, we're deeply sorry, deeply sorry. Oh bad. Well, thank you so much everybody. This was a really fun one. I love this story. Such good characters, those are the best ones. It's just where these people are just so memorable and they stand out so much and horrible. I mean, I'm not like excited that any of these people existed, but but it is a fun story to tell in its own dark weak So I hope you enjoyed it

as much as we did. Please reach out and let us know lots or any suggestions you may have for future episodes, just anything you've got on your mind. Hollad we read it and enjoy. It's ridic Romance at gmail dot com. That's right, Find us on Twitter and Instagram. I'm at Oh great, it's Eli. I'm at Dynamite Boom and the show is at ridic Romance. And we've got one more very exciting RECRYPTU list to bring you on

Halloween Day, I believe. So we're excited to bring you that, and then we'll be back to uh some more typical stories of ours there, they're never typical. We'll catch it the next one. I love you more friends. Time to leave, but we rise again. Hallows, we're your friends. You know that put treads and play for them. I'll show deal us ro