America’s Most Haunted: Ed & Lorraine Warren, Ghost Hunters

this special Halloween episode. Extra spookiness in store today Because if you know about Ed and Lorraine Warren, chances are you've heard about them from the Conjuring movies by James Juan starring Vera Farmiga and Patrick Wilson. But these two

are in fact real people. There are a married couple of paranormal investigators with their own spooky back stories because after becoming the pre eminent paranormal power couple of their day, they were at the center of some of the world's most well known supernatural mysteries like the Amityville Horror, Annabelle the Doll, and the parent family Haunting, which is the story on which the Conjuring was based. Now, obviously they're

terrifying tales have been called into question by skeptics. But more shockingly, some truly dark claims have been made about Ed's behavior and the Warren's loving marriage, and this led to a Hollywood lawsuit and possibly a billion dollar cover up. So let's hear the hauntingly strange tale of Ed and Lorraine Warren and their battle against demons and spirits from Beyond the Graves. So ready, let's gohost hater friends from listen.

Let say you're welcome to Hell. There's no matchmaking, romantic tips. It's just an old coops as you are lying in crypts, I love my deary type of Monstroul ghost to a demonico that if there's a spirit with a second chance, we'll put it it off. Show Recruitulous rolls a production of I Heart Radio. So much of this comes from a book called The Demonologists by Gerald Brittle, and this came out in nineteen eighty and it is the central

biography about Ed and Lorraine's life. But remember this author, Gerald Brittle, because he's coming back later. Ed Warren was born at September of nineteen twenty six in Connecticut, and he was only five years old when he first started to sense the supernatural. See, their old landlady lived in their building, and she would sit at her window and she would wait for people to walk by and do something that she didn't like. She hated children, she hated dogs,

hated people in general. It sounds like, and when someone did something she disapproved of, she would come rushing out of the house and screaming like some kind of banshee. Haunting, truly haunting, truly haunting. There was a woman like that in my neighborhood when I was a kid growing up. She had spray painted no she had hand painted on her sidewalk. She she repaved her driveway like every other week, total new fresh black asphalt. This isn't a small town like,

it was not a big driveway. I don't know what the deal was. And she painted white lines along where the sidewalk is and put like ropes up so you couldn't go beyond them. And I will never forget. She wrote on the sidewalk, no bicks on walk b I k s on both sides, and then later she added or dogs and so of course the children of the neighborhood would go skid mark all over her driveway with

their bikes because they thought that was hilarious. Ski marks probably. Um, I don't know whatever happened that all, lady, but she was pretty mean. I mean, it's so much work. Whatever bikes damage, Oh my god, whatever damage the bikes are doing. I can't be worse than no bicks on walk terrible. So Ed grew up with a similar woman as his landlord, real cranky, but after she died about a year later, Ed was upstairs in the same house just as the

sun was setting in the darkening attic. The closet door before him started to open, and in the shadows of the closet he saw a small ball of light hovering in the air. It started to grow, and in just a few seconds it had stretched and grown to the length of a human, and then in an instant it took the form of his landlady. She was semi transparent and wore a drabbed shroud over her head. She scowled at Ed, just as he remembered her always looking, and

then she vanished. H I guess the not scary part is that the landlady vanished, Yeah right, yeah, I've got a lot of people would even right around rent time. So Ed told his father, a local policeman, about this, but his father told him to forget it and to never talk about it. Ed said, quote, well, I never told anyone, but I also never forgot what I saw.

This reminds me of David Huggins when he saw aliens as a kid in our episode where the artist fell in love with that alien and made the tarl his life. And he went and told his dad, I think like I saw an alien, and his dad was like, you shut your mouth and never talked about that again. I'll take your straight to alone. Even so, Ed grew up Catholic, and he had a strange fascination with St. Michael. Before he even knew who Saint Michael was, he would stare

at a stained glass depiction of him and fascination. His priests and nuns taught his classes about demons and angels and spirits and devils, and as Ed experienced more strange apparitions and hauntings in his home, he took these lessons to heart. He later learned more about St. Michael, who was the archangel who drove Lucifer from Heaven, the patron saint of the Exorcists. I'm sorry, are you hearing that in your headphones? It's just like a weird h yeah, okay,

I don't know or something. Um, yes, no, it's no, it's probably just the wires. Uh. Oh, no, it's gone. It's gone. Okay, alright, sorry anyway. Uh. Meanwhile, just a few blocks from ed lived a young girl named Lorraine Morin born in January. Her family was also Irish Catholic, and Lorraine was a bright young girl with a special ability, clairvoyance.

Lorraine could see beyond physical space and time that most of us are bound by, and on Arbor Day of nineteen thirty eight, Lorraine's school was planting a new tree. Just as the sapling hit the earth, Lorraine saw a full, massive tree in front of her. She looked up to its stretching branches and saw leaves blowing in the wind, and one of the nuns asked her what she was looking up. What the hell are you looking up at?

It's nothing up there, It's a small tree, and Lorraine said, I'm just looking at the tree, and the nun looks down at her and says um, Lorraine, are you seeing into the future, And Lorraine replied, quote, yes, I guess I am sorry weird jumped to immediately take alright, alright, it's fine, it's right, Mr Mary Katherine or whatever, it's right. You know, these Catholic duns, they don't really like cancers

that they aren't expecting. So Lorraine was immediately sent off to a retreat home where she wasn't allowed to play or do anything really, she just had to sit and pray all day long. And she told Brittle quote after that, I kept my mouth shut. Uh oh, what I right? Terrible. I keep my little future trees to myself. But it would be so weird if a kids like, I'm having an imaginative daydream and someone was immediately like, you're looking

into the future. So Lorraine's abilities were psychic, but she didn't see ghosts or experience hauntings. Meanwhile, Ed was seeing spirits and supernatural happenings all around him, but never had any psychic abilities of his own. According to New York Times, they met when they were about sixteen, when Lorraine went to see a James Cagney movie with some friends. James Cagney amazing James Cagney. Ed was working at the theater as an usher in an adorable meat cute. Undoubtedly, he

ripped her ticket and was like, hey girl. She was like, I'm having a psychic premonition you're the one for me. Anyway, they met somehow and started dating, and Lorraine told Entertainment Weekly that on their first date she thought, quote, I'll spend the rest of my life with that man. I guess she did have a premonish. I guess so she did. She's like, I see, I see the two of us dancing around that big tree over there, and they're like, but that's just a sapling, not for long. What wonders

are coming. Although it's not exactly the most amazing depiction of someone predicting the future for them to look at a small tree and say, one day that'll be big, clearly possessed by the devil. One day all of you will die. So Lorraine had her premonition that they were meant to be together and would be together forever. But it was ninety four and soon Ed was off fighting in the Navy in World War Two. Just a few months into his service, he was on a ship which

collided with an oil tanker in the North Atlanta. There was a huge explosion and everyone on board had to jump into the icy waters. Ed prayed for help and soon he was rescued. He returned home and immediately asked Lorraine to marry him. While he was on leave in they held their wedding. Now they're only child, Judy, She was already six months old. By the time that Ed

finally came home for good. It was the first time that he had even met his daughter, and the couple knew it's time to get their career started, so they started putting their respective talents to work, hoping that they would become famous as painters. Yeah, both of them were skilled in landscape paintings, and they always thought they'd make their living as artists. But you know, you can't just be a landscape artist. They're a dime a dozen, right, and they needed more than a dime. It's not a

very good payback on your paintings. A dime a dozen, it's not good. So they needed a hook to stand out, so they turned into their individual fascinations with the paranormal. They would find reports of haunted houses in the area from newspapers and then they drive out to the site and Ed would sit outside and do a full sketch of the house. Lorraine told Brittle in the book that the owners of the house would always be peeking out the windows, wondering who these kids were in their yard

and what they were doing. But she would go up knock on the door, show them ed sketch, and offer it in exchange for the information about the haunting. Then, she said, quote, if the story was engrossing enough, we'd paint up the house for our collection and sell it later at an art show. It was pretty cool to be like, we're our art show is all haunted houses from the area. You know, Yeah, I guess. I mean that would make it more you know, you definitely look

I guess closer. They put little ghosts in the windows, dead trees in the yards, right. I guess they're lucky that they never knocked on the door and found a landlady like, yeah, they may have. I guess while he's sketched, she's like, I get the hell out of here. No, nois now. They spent about five years traveling the US and painting houses, and their daughter Judy, stayed in Connecticut

with Lorraine's mother Georgiana. She also went to a Catholic school, and in the USA Today interview, Judy said she didn't really know what her parents did for her living until later on in life. And meanwhile, Ed was reading every book there was on the supernatural, sort of beginning his field research on the subject. Yeah. He in fact, he would sometimes correct those books and more. Yeah, because he said, you know, he had so much personal experience. He just

knew what was right and wrong. Sometimes we Lorraine was often skeptical, and in fact, many of these so called haunted houses that they visited, Ed and Lorraine would discover that there was a perfectly normal explanation for the residents scares like leaky pipes or rotting wood, whatever, the house is settling, whatever, it's a draft. Yeah, it's just it's

a draft, no bige. But occasionally the warrants would find something remarkable, sometimes even terrible, lurking within these haunted houses. Ed explains how a spirit manifests in Brittle's book and says that while people tend to think that ghosts are hovering around in spidery attics, wooing and booing, they're actually really tough to see what the naked eye, and they

require some really specific conditions, he says. Quote, when an earth bound spirit needs a human presence to manifest, it engages in a complex process of energy transference to give itself substance. That energy, he says, is the human aura. He says, there is a three layer aura around every person, and clairvoyance like Lorraine can actually see and read this aura as conspirits. Now, some people's auras actually repel spirits, but others will tracked them. Maybe that's my problem. I

aora repels spirits. Yeah, and that's why I've never had an experience myself. I have often said that you have a very repelling aura. All right, wow, at least to stow my personal smell. No, you've got a lovely smell. It's just that sends people running, spirits, spirits running, and some people you're like the most inviting person. I know.

It's all right. Lorraine says that under the right conditions, a spirit may try to get your attention with a projected sound like breaking glass or maybe slamming a door shut. An eerie feeling comes over you, and you may see two small glowing orbs of light. You may see streaks of light flashing away from your body, which is quote electromagnetic energy being drawn from your aura. Soon the orbs merge, elongate,

and eventually takes something close to a human form. Now, if the form is a ghost, it has no recognizable human features, it's full on sheet with eyes. But if it's recognizably a person, then it's called an apparition. There are other ways that ghosts and apparitions can manifest, and Ed says they're gruesome. Appearance quote entirely depends on how that particular spirit determines to project itself. So the spirit sort of decides what it's going to look like through

its own sort of mood and energy. If a spirit had died violently in life, then the person's last thoughts can become central to the apparitions projection and quote. Thus the ghost will manifest as a grotesque spectacle representative of the manner in which it died. So like nearly Headless nick right, So like or I'm thinking of the Frighteners. Such a good movie, and the she McBride plays that character who's so mad that he died in the seventies, and he's wearing like a disco suit and he's like,

I look like this forever. This sucks. Now Ed and Lorraine say that spirits can indeed harm living people, sometimes physically, like inflicting illness. And I'm thinking about our story last year about Amanda large Tige who married that pirate ghost and she started to get really sick and learned that it was sucking energy from her to get more powerful. Right, Um, Spirits can also just inflict random pains with no medical explanation. And now I'm thinking of my own self every day

of my life. It's spirit. It's not that I sit all day and never stretch her exercise, it's ghosties. Uh. Spirits can also harm humans psychologically. They can inflict crippling depression, They can cause insomnia. They can even cause addictive tendencies or even inflicting suicidal feelings. Yeah, the more homes they visited, the more in demand ed in the rain became. Now people were calling them to come and investigate their homes, and they use their combined abilities to uncover the truth

of these ghostly visits. Their expertise and unique talents led to rising fame and eventually their involvement in some of the most well known paranormal cases in American historical. I'm sorry, I'm still hearing this weird noise. I don't hear getting it. You're hearing that in your headphones, right, yeah? Yeah, okay, I mean everything's connected. Okay, maybe you need to reboot

your headphones went on. Well, yeah, I'll reboot the whole system. Yeah, well we'll we'll figure out what this problem is and be You're right back with the rest of the story. Okay, okay, and uh it sounds good. It sounds good. Yea great, welcome back to the show, everybody. Alright. So, in ninety two Ed and Lorraine Warrant founded the New England Society for Psychic Research, and soon after that opened the Occult

Museum in their home in Connecticut. The Warrants were in high demand to investigate paranormal activity in homes across the country. They were thorough, they got results, and best of all, they were free. Oh now that's that's a selling point. I'll buy anything for free. Ed and Lorraine agreed to never charge for their investigations. Instead, they made a killing on college lecture tours, book deals, and media appearances. A regular people called them all the time. They're like Ed

and Lorraine, help, there's a go limb in my garage. Okay, there's a there's a monster under my bed, there's a there's a freaking my sheets, there's a there's a genie in my beanie. Oh no, there's a gin in my bin. It's probably the more correct way to say that. Hello, Ed and Lorraine. I'm at a party and there's a ghost of my host. I don't know why they all rhyme, but they do. Okay, spirits love to rhyme, except the tail. But sometimes they got a call from a priest, and

that's when they knew it was serious business. This is how they were brought into the first of their most famous cases. Annabelle, my god, are you serious? Uh? Hang on, I'm sec hang out. Okay, I thought we fixed this, you know. Actually, while we're paused, it's really cold in here. Do you think I don't know? Yeah, no, no, I gotta, I gotta. I can do it from the phone on our new our new plane instead. Okay, heat up and

the sound stopped. Okay, all right, sorry anyway, Annabelle. Yes, you've all heard of this movie, at least if not seen it. I'll say that we have not seen it. We haven't seen the conjuring either maybe we should watch that tonight, none of these films. No, we don't watch a lot of scary movies. I know that's my fault, but to get over it, well, it's your fault, and I don't care enough to push you for him about most scary movies. Do you know what I was thinking

about this today? You know what I don't like? I don't like injuries. Uh yeah, I'll like. I don't mind a ghost movie. Like we watched The Witch and I'm mad at myself for not watching that when he came out because it's it was really good. It was really good. Yeah, it's really good. But I don't like I don't know. Maybe that's not true because I really like Hostile. I love dream um, you know, but I don't know something something.

I just don't like watching people's bodies get mutilated often. Hey, you know what, I find that to be a great quality. Thank you, thank you well regardless, I don't know what the Annabelle movie is like. But the real story of Annabelle, according to Lorraine Warren in Brittle's book, is a bit

different than the movie. This is a very condensed summary I'm going to give here But in late nineteen sixties, a young single woman named Donna was gifted a Raggedy Ann doll by her mother for her twenty four birthday, just just a piece of decoration for her house. Well, she put it on her couch, but the doll began to move around, like when Donna and her roommate Angie, who were both nurses, would come home from work, the doll would just be in different rooms or in different

positions than she had left it. One time, the Raggedy Ann doll even had blood dripping from her hands. Yeah, so the girls got a little freaked out, so they got in touch with a medium, suspecting there might be something supernatural going on. The medium came and tried to uncover what she could about the spirit. During a seance, she received a message. Hi, I'm Annabelle. I'm just seven years old. But a long time ago, before these apartments were here, I died and everyone around here now is

a grown up. That's why I moved the doll around so much. But I like you too. I just want to be loved. Is it okay my stay with you and move into the doll. Well, the girls were moved by her story, so they told her yes, she was welcome to stay, but a short time after that things got a a worse. Angie's boyfriend Lou, woke up from a nap one time and the doll was strangling him. Another time, Lou and Angie were alone together when they heard sounds from Donna's room that sounded like someone had

broken in. Lou went to investigate and saw the Annabel doll tossed randomly on the floor. He moved into the room, but as he approached the doll, he got the distinct and eerie feeling that someone was behind him. He spun around quickly and saw nothing. Then Lou screamed and grabbed his chest. He fell to the ground, and she ran into the room and found Lou covered in blood. He had been slashed seven times across the chest, three vertical

and four horizontal. He said the cuts were hot, like burns, but that he Within a day, the girls decided it was time to call a priest, and after investigating himself, he decided to call the warrants. Well Ed basically told them y'all fucked up, which, honestly, they could have called me and I would the same honestly, like weird spirit is like Annabelle, I can I move into your doll?

Get the funk out of my house? Absolutely nice into a doll if someone's like Ghostbusters, Like, if a spirit asks you what they can move into your doll, you say no. So Ed said what we're all thinking, And he's like, first of all, you shouldn't have paid this weird doll so much attention. You gave it a lot of power. So I guess the dolls moving around your house and it's advice to me to just ignore it, order get rid of it, or just get rid of the Okay, I mean that sounds like what I would

do right. Secondly, he says, you called in a medium and just let this spirit tell you some slap dash story about a dead girl, and you believed it didn't have any questions or anything, which is like, hello, oh my god. If you say so ghost, no, absolutely come on, I mean anyway, Sorry, getting worked up, he said, quote, there is no Annabelle, there never was. You were duped. He said, there's definitely a spirit involved. But they wasn't no little girl ghost. This was the work of a demon.

Now Ed got some priests in there to run an exorcism on the house. One thing that is different from the movies is that Ed and Lorraine did not perform exorcisms themselves. Only clergy can perform exorcism. Don't let your neighbor do it, it has to be a clergy. Ed was a demonologist, and in fact he was the first uh lay person, non clergy person to be recognized as a demonologist by the church. Yeah yeah, but yes, but he was like, no exorcisms, you have to be a

priest now. Rather than expunging the house of evil, this exorcism was all about filling the house with good and God, which I guess would make it just an uncomfortable environment for a demon toil. That makes sense to me. And the warrants took the Annabelle doll with them to be displayed in their museum, and they placed it in a glass case with a sign saying quote warning positively, do not open. There's still some dark energy in that dolls. You want to play with me? I mean, I guess

so you sound real lonely. I really don't want to play with I'll just take her out for a second. What harm could it do? No? He lies desceptible. No. Lorraine said that on the drive home. She told Ed, don't take the highway while we've got this doll in this beck seat, because it's going to be a tough drive home. And they said that they indeed had to at one point douset the doll in holy Water because it was acting up too much. Acting up? Yeah, what

was he doing? Put it in our house. Picture in Ed driving got a raggedy Ann drabbing his head from behind. She's like, no, they did change the dolls in the movie to a much creepier doll than a raggedy Ann, because that is kind of hilarious. So scary doll acting like that is pretty flat faced button, nice doll. It would be so funny. You could change nothing else about the movie and it would be a comedy, classic horror

comedy class. Somebody do that. Somebody recut that trailer. Okay, So Ed and Lorraine worked many other major k is like we've mentioned earlier, like Amityville and all these things, But the one a lot of horror movie fans are most familiar with referenced earlier is the conjuring this is the story of the parent family. Now this movie is apparently much more close to the true story Lorraine actually

worked as a consultant on the project. She even has a cameo role in the movie, and she insisted that the producers didn't take any more creative liberties than they absolutely needed to. It's mostly very close to true life. Lorraine also told USA Today, quote the things that went on in there were just so incredibly frightening. It still

affects me to talk about it today. Now, this is the story of Caroline and Roger Parrin and their five daughters who moved into a farmhouse in Harrisville, Rhode Island. But there were spirits who already had an attachment to this property. Most of these spirits that visited the daughters especially, were harmless, but some were angry. Caroline was tormented the most. The first visitation she ever received was at five o'clock

in the morning. She woke up and she saw what she called the most frightening thing she'd ever seen in her life. Quote. It was a very tall woman. Her head was like a sack of cobwebs with little ten drils of hair hanging out. All right, don't need to sleep tonight, you. Caroline learned that the home had been in the same family for eight generations, and many of those who lived there died under mysterious or horrible circumstances.

The worst of these was Bathsheba, who saw herself as the matriarch of the house and she saw Caroline as competition. The real Bathsheba lived in the house in the mid eighteen hundreds and was rumored to have been a Satanist and potentially a murderer. According to all That's Interesting dot com, the home would smell like rotting flesh. Beds would levitate

and hover above the ground. While the family avoided the basement as much as they could, their heating equipment would mysteriously fail, and Roger would have to go downstairs, where he said he felt quote a cold stinking presence behind me. Every basement I go in, I feel that it's really deep seated. From home alone. When he went and the radiator laughed at him, that is legit for me. I think most kids feel that, especially have an unfinished basement. Yeah,

which I I did growing up. But you know what, Home alone also gave me the courage to laugh at it. That's right. He appreciated that he's a man now. Yeah, because I kind of thought that I was, like you know what. I'm just gonna tell that noise to shut up that I'm tough. I'm tough. Sometimes that worked, scared it still works today. Sometimes it doesn't now. The warrants made multiple trips over the ten years that the family lived there, and at one point Lorraine attempted a seance

to try and contact the spirits. During this, Caroline was possessed. She floated up off the ground and started chanting and what her eldest daughter, Andrea called, quote a language not of this world, in a voice not her own. Carolin was lifted up and thrown across the roof. After that, Roger parent told the warrants to quote, get the hell out of my house and never return. In all, the parents had to live in that house for a decade before they could afford to move, at which point the

haunting stopped. Andrea parents said, quote, my mother and I would just as soon swallow our tongues than tell a lie. People are free to believe what they want, but I know what we experienced. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. It's so cold in here. Are you're not breezing? I mean it's a little cold, but I just turned the heat. Can you do you feel like a space heater or something. Oh yeah, yeah, yea yeah, hang up, there's a space heater. Um go get it just a second on the door

won't open. You'll just get up. I still get up? What are you doing up? Oh? You still with us? Listener? Stay awhile. We have such stories to share. We we'll be back right after this. Welcome back everyone. There are treats for the ears and so beariful all to share. Um, excuse me, I'm sorry. It's these these fall allergies. You know, they've really been kicking in the last couple of days. Yeah, your voice sounds really weird. And the season water are

you Yeah, no, it feels a lot better. And it's so weird how the power was flickering right, and that draft came in under a freezing call. Anyway, So there's so much more important info about the Warrens beyond the cases they explored, and much of it has come out just in recent years. Ed passed away in August of two thousand and six, and one of the stories he always wanted to get made into a movie was the

conjuring That one really stuck with them. Both their daughter, Judy's husband Tony Spera said, quote, and what's being made into a movie that one. I think he's working from beyond to make this thing happen. There's a lot of people in Hollywood right now trying to get a script made, and they're like Ed Cain, he's dead and he gets I guess I gotta be a ghost town now. First of all, obviously, the Warrens have always had their detractors.

Many disbelievers in the Viking News of Westchester Community College wrote in opposition to the school using student activity fees to pay Lorraine to lecture. They said, quote Warren, along with her late husband Ed, are audacious and unabashed frauds, capitalizing on completely meritless superstition, which is all too common in modern society. And Dr Stephen no Ella at Yale School of Medicine says that their methods just exacerbate people's

existing mental illness. He said, quote, they'll say, yes, your child is possessed by a demon. That's the worst thing you can do to somebody with a delusional problem. It's like saying, yes, the CIA really is monitoring you through the fillings in your teeth. Damn. Wait, CIA is monitoring to me through my film, and now I feel like he was really confessing there and then trying to get

I believe it. I know you're listening, C I A. I do think it's so weird to say anyone with the ghost deep problem has mental illness, right right, right? But I guess if you're not believing, what else could be? Do you think it must be a delusion, you know, or unless it's just creaky floorboards or a draft like it was for us, like it was. Yeah, but claims

of Adam Lorraine's fraud we're just the beginning. Because in two thousand seventeen, four years after The Conjuring came out and a year after The Conjuring two, the Hollywood Reporter put out an article titled war over the Conjuring The disturbing claims behind a billion dollar franchise, and that brings

us to this episode's side piece, I'm scared now. The article says that a few weeks after the Conjuring movie opened, studio executives were made aware of allegations that in the early nineteen sixties, Ed Warren had a relationship with an underage girl with Lorraine's knowledge. What her name is Judith Penny and now in her seventies. She said in a sworn declaration that she quote lived in the Warren's house

as Ed's lover for four decades. An attorney for Lorraine said that the family had no knowledge of such conduct, and that as Lorraine was ninety years old at the time and in failing health, she could not comment. Judith Penny said that before Ed was famous, he was working as a city bus driver in Monroe, Connecticut. He was in his mid thirties and Judith was just fifteen, a student at Central High School who wrote his bus. She began a quote amorous relationship with him, and by nineteen

sixty three she moved into their home. Hollywood Reporters says quote for the next forty years. She said she had a sexual relationship with Ed with Lorraine's knowledge. At first, she had a bedroom across the hall from them, before the couple had an apartment built for her upstairs. Ed would sleep downstairs one night and upstairs the next. Sounds like they had a nice compromise going at the very least, but her moving in didn't go unnoticed. In ninety three,

someone tipped off the police and Judith was arrested. Police tried to convince her to sign a statement admitting to the affair, but she refused. The courts ordered her to go to juvenile delinquency meetings once a week for a month. Ed would pick her up from school and take her there. Okay, a couple of things, many problems. One, why does she get arrested when people say that she's sleeping with she's a minor sleep with an adult? Boggles the mind. Why

would she get arrested? Would a great question him if those accusations came up him, her parents, maybe anyone but her? Why is she the one unless you're like, the only place you're safe is in US cops watching you because you have a creep out with you. Unless the police are being controlled by the demons who are trying to stop Ed and Lorraine God, and they trying to get a false confession out of her for this thing, unlikely. I don't believe. I'm not taking the side of of

of a supernatural excuse for a sexual predator. No, thank you. Also, if this is all going down, she's got these accusations left against her and has has been like court ordered to go to juveniles alinquency, ED, what do you do? And being the one to take her like, talk about taking it more suspicious. I'm really not understanding how they did not remove her from the home even if she wouldn't sign a statement. They still know, right, they believe,

but I don't think they had any proof. Somebody just tipped them off. I mean I guess, yeah, I guess if she won't say anything, they can't really be like, you're not in a safe space. She's just living there. They're taking care of her. Damn Well, it gets worse because in nineteen fifteen, years after she moved in with them, Judith says that this is when she got pregnant with Ed's child and Lorraine convinced her to have an abortion.

She said that despite Lorraine claiming to be a devout Catholic, quote, her real God is money. And Judith claims that, you know, if the scandal had gotten out, it would ruin their career, as you know ghost hunters, which they were successful at at the time. They were pretty big at this time. Okay, so she's like, you can't have no baby around me now. Judith alleges that the Warrens wanted her to tell everyone that someone had broken into the house and raped her.

And that's how she got pregnant. But Judith refused to tell that lie. She did get the abortion, and Ed and Lorraine, she says, picked her up from the hospital, dropped her off at home, and then went out and did a lecture that night. Now, Judith also said that Ed and Lorraine would fight really badly. She claimed, quote some nights, I thought they were going to kill each other. She also said that Ed once backhanded Lorraine so hard that she passed out. Oh my god. Yeah, yeah, very

intense allegations. And Lorraine's daughter, Judy and her husband Tony say they never saw that kind of behavior from either of them, and that they had just offered Judith Penny a place to live when she had nowhere else to go. Okay, so total philanthropists right right point out that Judy did not live with the Warrants growing up. She lived with her grand So how would she know. I mean they were close, you know, she said. She maintained a good

relationship with them throughout their lives. Right. But people can hide. People can hide us. Think about Fred and Dolly OSTERI, Oh my god, Dolly can hide a lot. You can hide a lot in the house from an unobservant person. But Judy and Tony allege that while the warrants were on tour lecturing, Judith watched their house, and they claim that she had a long term boyfriend at the time who she eventually married. They think Judith is being manipulated.

But get this. In Lorraine's contract with New Line to work as a consultant on the conjuring, the Hollywood Reporter reports that it specifically states that neither she nor Ed could be depicted quote engaging in crimes including sex with miners, child pornography, prostitution, or sexual assault, and neither of them

could be depicted as having an extramarital affair. Hollywood Reporter does quote a talent attorney saying that it's not unusual for people to put specific details in their contracts when they sell the rights to their stories, but quote, she has never seen specific language barring depictions like these. Man. That is so weird, so weird, because you might say, like I might sell my story to New Line, which I feel free to call me up guys, um, and you know I might put in my contract. Uh, you know,

you can never just make me chrimellion a crime. And I never did, but I don't want them to put it in there for dramatic effect, Like I'm just trying to get ahead of it and say, don't funk in my life too much that happens. But to so specifically say, by the way, you can never depict us as having sex with miners is like such a very specific thing

to put in there, insanely specific. If someone was reading it, I feel like they'd be like, usually that kind of goes without saying, yeah, but maybe you would include it if you knew there was some dirt out there about your asked being nasty, pedophile, super weird. And then get this. After the movie came out, producer Tony de Rosa Grund emailed a bunch of executives and said, hey, you guys, we gotta stop saying that this is the true story

of the Warrens, because it ain't. He got wind of Judith's claims and said, quote, Ed was a pedophile, a sexual predator, and a physically abusive husband. Lorraine enabled Ed to do this, and he warned the producers that Judith might tell her story to the media, saying quote, once this comes out, do you think Patrick Wilson or via Farmigo would knowingly play Ed and Lorraine again. Oh hell, no Vera would be like remove of me, replaced me

with the holocrame of Christopher Plummer. Now. De Grund told Judith Penny that he could quote temper the romantic relationship between the characters and the sequel because one of the big problems that she had is that I guess they're to portrayed is such a loving couple. And she's like, that's totally wrong. I don't want people thinking that was what their life was when it was actually very volatile and bad. You know, there's a lot of bad stuff

going on. He said, Well, in the sequels, you know, I'll make sure that it's not such a happy marriage. But get this. Just a few years later, Tony de Rosa Grund was suing Warner Brothers and New Line for booting him from the sequels. All of a sudden, he wasn't involved no more. What very strange. Meanwhile, remember Gerard Brittle, who wrote the book The Demonologists and spent years following and interviewing the Warrens. He was also suing Warner Brothers

and New Line. He claimed that the conjuring franchise violate an exclusivity deal that he had with the Warrens, which prevented them from entering into a motion picture deal without his consent. He also claimed the movies were falsely depicting real figures and claiming to be true stories, so essentially like Tony saying, this ain't the real story, right, because Brittle revealed that while he believed the Warrens when he was writing the book, he later discovered that their stories

were far from truthful. He said the studio was aware they were false, and therefore they copied the version of events in his book rather than tell their true story, so therefore they were stealing his version. He had written it as a true story, but it turned out to be fiction. So he's like, as the writer, I should get something, which I totally get it. That's so crazy. He must have heard Judas claims as well, and it's just well, Brittle actually knew Judith. He knew her pretty

well because he spent so long with the Warrants. There's a passing reference to her in his book, but not much of one, and according to Living Magazine, somewhere in Gerald Brittle's three and fifty five page lawsuit, he claims that Judith Penny was ready to testify about how inaccurate the portrayals of the Warrens were in the movies. It said, she would disclose quote the absolute charade of this family

dynamic as depicted as fact in these movies. The true family dynamic was known at the highest executive levels of both New Line and Time Warner. So he's saying, I will I've got a witness who can come out here and spill this. And this seemed to be what really freaked out the movie studios because they're like, first, we didn't want this to get out because we're just trying to sell a movie here. We don't want people hating

these characters, right, so bury that. And then on top of that, they're like, oh, plus, if this story is not true, then we did copy the book, so we'll get in trouble for that, uh huh. And then on top of that, now if it comes out and for example, de Rosa Grunt has this email to us from back then telling us and we knowingly ignored it, and it looks real bad for us to now. Judith herself never

did go to the media with her story. There's a few taped conversations I'm not sure with whom, but the Hollywood Reporter got their hands on these, and then of course they have what they heard from de Rosa, Grund and Gerald Brittle about Judith's story. Judith spoke to someone because it said that there's a sworn statement out there that she wrote, so I'm not sure exactly who, but she did not go to the media with this story herself. But the tapes revealed that she did really love ed Um.

She didn't have very fond feelings for Lorraine, and she often wondered why Lorraine let her stick around for so long. In one of these recordings, she says, quote, why did I do this? Why did I screw up my life like this? I get angry thinking about it. How so much was taken away from me? I mean true, though, for you live in as a third wheel in some guy's house, a secret mistress for starting years year old, and you never get to have your kid, a kid of your own, or a house of your own, or

anything of your own. I mean, yeah, that would be something that would make you incredibly better. And yeah, like you said, fifteen, at what point was she like, man, I think I was probably a child who wasn't capable of making a decision like. In the end, Brittle's case was settled with the joint statement being released, saying quote Mr Brittle realizes that filing this lawsuit was a mistake and that new Line has no liability and did nothing wrong.

I'm like, did he realize it was a mistake because you sent some coons to his house or a big enough check? Well that's either way, because they settled out of Cork. He was suing for nine hundred million dollars because that this is again, this is an over billion dollar franchise at this point, the conjuring, the conjuring to Annabel. I think there's an Annabel to the none. These are all movies based off the warrants and their stories that

Brittle wrote about in his book. Okay, so yeah, he really felt like he needed recompense, So I guess he did get his recompense. And THHR reports that Brittle now claims he was put up to the lawsuit by none other than Tony de rosa Grunts producer. He said, quote, Tony has been controlling this litigation from the start. He even threatened my attorneys that if they sent information from me without him reviewing it first, they would be fired.

Ah what. He also said that when he complained about this about Dick Grun sort of oversight of all the evidence and everything, de Grun told the lawyers, Oh good, well, then get Gerald to fucking pay you. Oh wait, he doesn't have a pot to piss in. I for got. Oh okay. So it's really like elitist about it too, Like I'm paying for the lawsuit here. Oh wow, I get I get to control the whole flow of information. Get a pot to piston first, right, So very shifty,

that is shifting. But then Tony says, quote Mr Brittle was never a puppet. New Lines campaign against me is pure retribution because I was the whistleblower that put new Line on notice regarding the sexual predation by Ed Warren. The studio did not only not investigate those claims, they said they didn't want to know. Wow. So I could totally see a studio being like, we're right this check

but this is what you need to be saying. Oh it's so hard to say, oh my god, because usually I mean especially I mean this is this was all happening in seventeen or so. Hollywood's got a pretty potent history back then of covering up sexual assault, especially they have, Yeah, especially when they have a ton of money at stake, like a big franchise like this, So you know, I could totally see that. On the other hand, I don't know this guy de Rosa Grund. He sounds real shady.

Apparently he's getting sued for like some sort of crypto thing right now in Florida. I don't really know the details. Um, but I don't know. He might be the shitty, shifty guy who was who's also correct about everything that's going on with Edward. That doesn't necessarily mean blind. Yeah, if anything, he would know more about it. Like, trust me, I've done it myself many times. I'll tell you exactly how they did it. But people are like, well, why then

is he uh you know, making all this up? If he is, And people like, well, he got booted from making the sequels, so he's just a grudge. He wants his money. They were like, well, then why do you get booted from the sequels? But then is he just nobody likes him and he sucks? Exactly what did he do or did he say something about this and they didn't like it? Oh? Right, this is a very tough and in terms of Judith, some people say that he put her up to a lot of this, that he

took maybe an old yeah, that Tony did that. Maybe this is an old story that true or not, he's sort of like dug up and re sparked, trying to trying to get her to testify. You know. Some people say that she was pressured by police originally to talk about this affair that never happened, and it was all people just kind of coming after the Warrens um either because they resented them, a lot of people hated them, uh, or or for some other reason we don't know about.

You know, I'm inclined to believe this, lady, so am I so am I. Um, but it is wild, It's real, hard to say, very very wild. And I guess Lorraine is no longer with us. Lorane died in nineteen Yeah, and she was in poor health for the last few years. So she, as far as I could tell, never really commented on this. Yeah. And Judas is still alive. Jude is Yeah. Judas is still alive as far as I know, but again, has never really made any media appearances. Um. Judy,

her daughter and her husband Tony are still alive. They took over the museum for a while, but it did close after Lorraine's death. Oh that's too bad. Yeah, Apparently after the movies came out, they started getting way more recognition and somebody complained about the museum. Well, they said people just started pouring in. They got so much more

business than they could handle. And I remember the daughter Judy saying people would just come in and park in the parking lot and like peer at us through the windows and stuff, and it got real creepy. It was to Lorraine for me. Um. But eventually someone complained, like somebody filed a suit against them not having the right permits or something because they just set this museum up their house, right, it wasn't a commercial right, um, So

eventually they did have to shut it down. Yeah. I don't know where the Annabelle Doll is today though exactly did they keep it shut? She the reason all this is going on. I did read an interview with Fear of Farming Go where she said they went to the Lorraine's house to meet them before the movie got started, or to meet Lorraine before the movie got started, and she said Patrick Wilson went down into their basement where their museum is. But I wouldn't do it, she said,

I've heard too many stories. I wouldn't go down there. Hell, no, sir, I need to see that doll. Wilson see anything. I guess he never said. He didn't say he never tell anyone when you start down here, Patrick Wilson, he's like, uh, and Patrick Wilson and Vera Farming At least in Hollywood Reporter it says they have never commented on any of this stuff. So that's probably for the best. Yeah, you know, they're really nothing to say until you know it's really

he said. He said, I would argue that the producers probably never informed them of any of this. That was another I was about to say. Also, they might not have even known. Why would they be told? And again, as like the what's his name? The producer was like, do you think they will play the Warrens if they're

now you know how shitty they are? So I'm sure they were like, well, we can't tell the stars that there's even a you know, a whiff of scandal, right exactly, So, Patrick Wilson, Vera Farmiga, if you're listening, this is the true story. Your characters. We look forward to you coming on the show and talking to us about it. Oh my god, that was very creepy, super creepy. I mean it's all creepy. I mean each of these like their respective experiences growing up. If any of that's true, super creepy.

Look at the parents, I mean they those girls are still around and they swear up and down this happened. You know why we lie about it. They didn't make no money off it. They spent ten years being tormented, So I don't know spooky things, book things, indeed, who I would love to hear y'all's thoughts about it, honestly, about these stories, about the movies, about any sort of hauntings you've experienced. Uh, we'll tell these stories on the airs to send them our way. Yeah, what's up? Are

you cold again? Oh my god? Thank you for contributing your souls to this episode. Tonal promise you will not go unrewarded. Maillard. Demons can reach out to Redick Romance at gmail dot com and follow the Dark Floor our mean follow us on social media, a True on Earth on Instagram and Twitter, Follow at all Greek Feli and at Diana my Bloom and follow the show at with their romance. If thou wouldst like to live deliciously and

so long, friends, it is trying to leave. When we rise again, halloisive put your friends in it, and put meads and play for then a show we could tell us rows