The Battlin' Fleetwood Macs

This dude in Florida, he was like perusing Facebook, ridiculous the end now and he's looking in the this like Rockdale County Sheriff's office has a Facebook page and he's poking around and they listed their most wanted list for November and he was bummed because he wasn't on it. Almost wanted people just like gift they were asking for. There wasn't like Amazon work list, like we need croqueys.

And now they they had like their most wanted lists people of people, most wanted criminals And he's like, I'm a criminal. I live in this county. I have broken the law. What's up? I'm top ten quality right here, come on, don't give me this o your number twelve. Instead of just like turning to you know, the people in his home and saying, guys or you know, sitting you know, turning to the people the bar, I'm so sad. Uh No, Instead he posted on their on their wall

and said how about me? Quote? How about me? And he wasn't being like tongue in Cheeka. No, he was like, hey man, I'm a criminal. And so then they responded and they said, quote, you are correct, you have two warrants, were on the way and they went and arrested him. He's like, now I feel better. Yeah, So his social media addiction led to him blowing his cover. They also then they posted, we appreciate you for your assistance in

your capture. So yeah, and then then their their statement on it was our top ten is compiled based off the severity of the charges. Only by not being on this list does not mean our fugitive unit is not looking for you. If you have an active warrant, why do they clarify that? They don't need to say that. I know right, So anyway, the dummy clause what about me? All right? What about you? He's the ultimate like, that's a pick me. But the guy version he wanted to

feel special, he wanted isn't even lights. So that's ridiculous. I'll hand you that. Yeah it is. You don't have to tell me it is ridiculous. Well, if you got a second, yes, I got a story for you of course. Okay. Did you know there was once to Fleetwood Max at the same time and neither one included Stevie Nicks or Lindsey Buckingham. Just still though, that's like, if you get hit in the head, you see two Fleetwood Max at

the scene exactly, They're coming at you, Tusk. This is Ridiculous Crime A podcast about absurd and outrageous capers, heists and cons. It's allways nine, murder free and ridiculous. Elizabeth. I've got a hell of story for you, I hope. So in this story, by the way, I mean I I came all the way down here, I got dressed, Yeah, showed up at work. I noticed you You're you're wearing your best robe and swim flippers. Yeah, this is a

good look. So um. This story, by the way, it came to us, or came to me rather from a tip from a friend of producer Dave's no way, yeah, dude, Andy Shay or Andy, So thank you Andy, we appreciate thank you. And now this story is well, let me just set the table if you don't. Now you know I love the seventies, Yes, I do too. Yeah, we share a love for the seventies. And like when I read about these news stories and I go doing investigations

and do some research, that everything is wilder than I expect. Absolutely, it just it's like, oh, it starts with the headline and then it just spirals into madness, right, and then it's the whole decade. It doesn't matter which year you pick, it's I'm like, oh, seventy two was a wild no, no,

the whole And also it was interesting. It's like, you know, like I watched a lot of Barney Miller, for instance, and I use that it as a metric for the seventies because of the different crimes that show up and how people are and how they react to people in the expectations. And it's interesting to me is how drunk

everybody was just lightly toasted. And it was a joke like this person has been drunk at work for twenty years and everybody knows it right, and it's just like, imagine what that's like if her a whole, like all the adults are just lightly buzzing on piles alcohol. Yeah, exactly. Well, anyway, it led to a lot of bad decisions ultimately, but this is not about bad seventies decisions. This is about the seventies driving people batty. Okay, right, does that make

does it make sense? What I mean by batty is like you know, bats in the belfry, Like you're like, why would it be? Why would you do that? Like this just makes no sense. Anyway. Now I'm gonna have a I'm gonna have actually set as I told you, set the table, and then as I you know, get into the seventies, we'll go first, start with a little appetizer and a moose bush as you and the French would say. Right, do you know about supergroups? Se supergroups? Sure? Yeah,

like Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young. Okay, well, the seventies is when this kicks off. In fact, Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young is considered basically the first super group. And then I love them, but yeahs songs you like or albums like you just like? I like it all I love Neil Young and so you know, I love and I love Crosby Stills Nash so kind of works together. And then put peanut butter in the chocolate and you're like,

she Sam, there it is. Well, that's a very common They found that that marketing works for a lot of people. They are like, oh, I like this one. I like that when you start putting them together. Supergroup, Yeah, well like Traveling will Berrious that was that was gonna be one example. I had um belbav de Vaux. Now you know right now, okay, another one for you, Temple of the Dog or Audio Slave some of the same. That

Temple of the Dog album is good. Yeah, right, like I will, I will stand firm in that that is a good album. You know. It's another basically supergroup led Zeppelin. They were all in different groups and Yardbirds and I don't know British bands like this well, but there's apparently a band of Joy was a band at that John Bonham and Robert plant rooined together. Whatever. So my favorite example though the supergroup is the Highwayman. Yes, Johnny cash

Waylon Jenny's and Chris Christopherson's kidding me. Yeah, well, I want to tell you the story of another supergroup list. It's called The Mask Marauders. You ever hear of the Mask Marauders? Well, um, we'll pull from the pages of the underground newspaper and culture outlet The Seed for a music review dating back to nineteen nine, so I can really uh let you into the world of the Mask Marauders. You're ready. Quote the newest Escalation and the never Ending

rock Hype is an album called The Mask Marauders. You'll notice a tone They're coming in hot now. That was in response to Rolling Stones magazines Pure Purple Prose about the supergroup. They had already written a review, and in the Rolling Stones review they wrote, quote it can truly be said that this album is more than a way of life, It is life heavens. Yeah, you can hear the hype now. Why you may be asking Zaren why such effusive, over the top praise for this group no

one had ever yet heard of it? Is it a nepotism thing? Well, it's because of the lineup. The lineup reportedly was John the Lennon of the Beatles, Mick Jagger of the Rolling Stones, Paul McCartney also the Beatles, and Bob Dylan of Bob Dylan. I never heard of this, That's the whole point. So its supposed to be like a secret underground recording that they did, a bootleg record, off brand, off label, they got together, recorded and a

recording existed. Tell me again, is this so John Lennon, Paul McCartney, Mick Jagger, Bob Dylan, that many egos in one room and it doesn't create a supernova and just like the gravity just sucks into the doors, come flying and yeah. Well the Rolling Stone called this bootleg record the album of the year or the record of the year, the distinction. But the album drops in nineteen nine. Okay,

right to cross these selves national has already happened. People were like, oh my god, imagine what another supergroup and then boom, they get this as a super People are going nuts. So they're going to their local record stars, like when can I get the Mass Marauders album. They're like, what do you mean? You saw the Rolling Stone review? Like oh yeah, yeah, Like when don't you gonna get it? We'll let you know, man, And then the next day, hey man, and they need the Mass Marauders. Bro will

tell you when it shows up. They're they're getting like hassled about it. You know, it's also getting hassled about it Warner Brothers. Warner Brothers is like, um, you know, they keep hearing about this group that apparently has members that they have signed. They're like, wait a minute, we should be knowing about this. What's going on? And so then they do a bidding war to buy this album. So it was a bootleg. It didn't. It was not.

It was not. It wasn't on studio dollars. So normally a recording will be like, hey, we'll give you the money to record your album and then we own the masters and all that justn't done that way. The masters suddenly are created as this bootleg recording got it because I was just wondering, Like in the reviews, they usually tell you who the music publisher, like who's exactly? So they just reviewed this bootleg album and they and the demand grows and they have to make it a legit.

It was like the Gray album from like where Danger Mouse went out and he takes the jay Z and the Beatles matches. That makes this album. So he couldn't release that one. He legally was not allowed to. But imagine if he could because Warner Brothers says, hey, we'll

release them. That's essentially what happened right now. November ninety nine, after Warner Brothers wins the bidding war amongst all the other labels, this album comes out, It gets released legitimately, and it has this really modest cover because it's like, oh, there's, as you said, these big egos. Who gives you how are you gonna list them? You're going to get the big picture. So they have nothing, there's no there's no

names on the album. It's just this bland cover. But everybody knows like, oh, it's like this wink of like, oh, that's pretty cool that they did themselves right. So there's this power of hype and mystery all coming together. The Mass Marauder album sells a hundred thousand copies right makes it onto the Billboard charts. In the liner notes, there is though a kind of like winking nod, like hey,

let's let people in on it. And they are like and I quote leading experts and now estimate the music business is currently hype and the Mass Marauders, bless their hearts, have gone far beyond that. Yeah, people, it's all sorry. They had crossed basically the Rubicon at this point, and the Rolling Stone reviews, right, they had been faked. They were not a real review. There was no initial album.

The Rolling Stone. They put out this like review of an album that never existed to make fun of the fact that people are so into the hype, and then the hype becomes something and then they end up making an album actually comes outrank review that they Mick Jagger, John Lennon and Paul mcgartney, Bob Dylon. They were never

in the studio together. Your read was spot you know this, And so the album this joke, this travesty, this travish yam mockery, it becomes legally a questionable because once the Warner Brothers finds out it's not actually who they paid for talking fraud, right, right, So how did they get this band hoax past Warner Brothers? And how did you get past all the music lovers everyone's supposed be supposed to be the coolest people who know about this, like

impersonators on the record? Are they impersonators on the actual record that people thought? Okay, well, I'll explain, okay, okay, I like to get right to the heart of it. Is music mine? Well, Okay, it starts with Rolling Stones. As I told you, the Rolling Stone writers, they did a fake review and Grail Marcus remembered, right, and I quote,

it was late. I was tired and I've been sitting around talking with my friend about how stupid all the then so called super session albums were so grayl He wants to make fun of these cash grab supergroups, right, So he's like, how how do we do that. He's like, well, basically, let's see, I'll just come up with one. So he invents the Mass Marauders and so he gets the you know, he takes from Terry Southern U a Terry Southern novel

called The Magic Christian that becomes his pen name. So he writes the review as T. M. Christian, right, and then so that's like his first little wink. And then Grail Marcus goes and he writes up his review and he shows it to Jan Winner. It's like late at night. Dan, He's like, hey man, look what I did. And he's like Jan Winners like, oh man, this is hilarious. So the publisher of Rolling Stones like, we got to do

more of these. He's like, how many can you get before we do our next edition, like I don't know, so they start writing up more. Grail writes a ton of fake reviews right now. In October eighteenth, nine nine issue A Rolling Stone comes out, they run the first review of the bootleg album from the Mass Marauders, and Grail recalls later and I quote again, it was just an attempt to say this is stupid, and let's make

it even stupider. So it's likely hit the gas on it right now for those who may be a little suspicious and in on the joke. There were plenty of winks and nods, as I told you earlier. But in the other Liner Knows, there's things like they talk about how the album was recorded in a small town near the site of the original Hudson Bay Colony in Canada, so it's all pressed trying to be like a big

pink Yeah, there you go. Nice. So they all of a suddenly have other oddities in there because apparently Paul McCartney sings Mammy the Al Jolson songs, How did anyone think this was real? Big Jaggers sings a song I Can't get No Nookie. So yeah, now obviously you're you're on. None of us is true, and uh, but they now still have to make this album. Someday somebody's singing as Paul McCartney singing, Mammy, there is somebody singing as Mick Jaggers singing, I can't get no nookie. So how do

you do this? Well, if you don't give a you know, you already said, look, we don't care about propriety, right, So Graham Marcus and the Rolling Stones guys were like, look, you know, we're already way ahead of y' Allso they just run with it and they're like, look, we gotta

get this album out. So they hire some friends from a Berkeley area band and the band is Cleanliness and Godliness Skiffle Band, and they're like, so they hire their friends and they record a bunch of sessions and they again give those master tapes to Warner Brothers, and Warner Brothers puts it out, and that's and them not knowing

at the time. Right. So then that undergone newspaper that I told you about before the seed, they wrote the real review of the fake album that pretty much unmasked the mass marauders, right, So they note that this was done by members of the band Cleanliness and Godliness Skiffle band like they even named the Small Berkeley band. They do it good. They're like, who did and I quote a fair stations of Dylan and Jaggers. They want to

be like the music lover's music lovers. Now this grand hoax finally gets revealed, and so now we are wondering are there gonna be charges of fraud filed against these writers? Wonder Brothers is like, you know what, Look, we're not in the business of selling truth. We're in the business of selling records. We sold records there for us. As long as they don't lose money, there ye no charges filed.

And if you were curious about any of this, you can go on eBay and I found the I Can't Get No Nookie single, I couldn't find Mammy and I go I did find I Can't get So they released them as singles too, just as exactly forty five records. You can get a forty five record thread on there, drop the needle on here at yourself. Now to bring things full circle, as you pointed out, there were the Traveling Wilberries, which means a beatle that did create a

supergroup with Bob Dylan. So George Harris and Bob Dylan don Was and Tom Petty they'll get together booms and now you get your don't forget and of course Royal. So there it is. That's amazing. That's our moves. Bush a main course. Yes, well let's take a little break. I'm want to refresh myself and then we'll get deep into it. Alright, Elizabeth, I've promised you the entree of today. Yes, I'm so excited for this. Talk in your napkin. Girl,

it's about to get sloppy. It's okay. Now, did you know that Fleetwood Mac, which is the star of our show, is not named after Mick Fleetwood. It's not. It's not named after Christine McVie either. I thought that's what it was like, Fleetwood Mac. Like I've always lived under the assumption that. I mean, I don't think about it often at all, but like if you ask me, wait, so did they call themselves Fleetwood Magnetic? We really need someone

the Fleetwood have been here? No, and also make Fleetwood didn't change his name to match, which is another possibility. And I was like, no, I just assume they've been in England. They're like, hey, we're Fleetwood Mac, Christine and Halen. They come to America get famous. They're like, hey, Lindsay, Stevie joined us and then boom blow up. I didn't ever, but that's not their story. Like apparently it's from a song written by somebody else who later joined the band.

And they're like, yeah, that's Fleetwood Mac. So that was lyrics and the song was the name of a song. Yeah, I'll explain it to you. It comes in. Yeah, it's a whole thing. So I am embracing myself to this one. Well Fleetwood Mac. As you know, it's hard to define, capture, wrap your arms around. It's just a ball of mess and energy and desire. Chaos exactly. It's a little chaos engine, right, but also it sounds legendard to capture. It starts as

a blues band and it changes. I mean it's it's like four bands and one right now, just to kind of like let people know how wild the band is. Like people think of Stevie Nicks, and we're gonna talk about Stevie Nicks because I got a little story for you about Stevie Nicks. You're ready, witch, I'm ready. So this story is about a million dollars worth of cocaine, Hitler's train and learning how to be coke with your butt. You're ready. You want to know why you shouldn't do coke.

Here's why Exhibit B and Exhibit CE. Alright, Elizabeth, if I said the word cocaine, then I said, Stevie Nicks. You would next say, of course, and the other ones I would say, is but cocaine because known for this and what do I mean by buck cocaine is it refers to the time when Steven Knicks firs joint Fleetwood mix. She was She was a good girl. She was not someone who's doing a lot of drugs. She gets into the fast life. She's like, hey, I like this cocaine.

This stuff so alright, come sitting next to me. Cocaine Now. She loved it so much she burns all like a dime sized hole in her septum. Right, So those is like unable for her to do the snorting she wants. But she's like, but I still love the cocaine, So how do I get it into my body? She's like, well, I do have this personal assistant. They have to do what I asked him to do. So they came up with an ingenious and I say ingenious, loosely way to get the cocaine into a system. Do you know how?

I do know how. I'll let you share. That was it. She had the assistant blow it up for tutor. Yes, exactly. She got like a straw right right there in the poop shoot and then I don't know. This is the part of that makes sense to me, is so you loaded up in the straw on one end and then like I guess, like hold it in balance and then insert the straw and then blow. Yeah. I was trying to work out the dynamics anyway, she reverse siphoning of gasoline. Yeah, but it just seemed like do you want to get

it in the middle of the straw? So I mean you're going it was I think you probably loaded at the front end of the straw in there just cramp, just shove it and ram it on it like sneezer. You had that moment you're like and you like suck it back in. Well, no, I think you take a deep breath with your thumb over it and then you blow into the but you don't want to put too much air and then it's sprays back out at you.

I'm now I'm overthinking what happened? Okay, so but like one of those like um fireplace, what's that called for stokers from? What are those things called the accordion? Stoker bellows, bello, there you go, thank you producer. Day just but then it's like too much pressure and then it all shoots back up and everyone's cocaine ever in a fine dust. Well, keeping the fine dust aside for a second. The I promise you Hitler's Hitler's train, right, So there's another reason

why not to do cocaine. When they were traveling in Europe doing a tour, they're like, we need We're doing so many drugs, we can't risk it, and we need a place to be able to be ourselves. So but also we're decading in seventies and full of ourselves. We need something plush. We can't just have a tour bus. Let's get a tour train. So they rented a rain carriage and pretty awesome. Yeah, they're traveling around like the Netherlands, France. You know how I feel about trains. I knew you

would like this. I was like, you know, who's gonna really appreciate this. So they go and they're like, okay, we need something luxurious. And then because it's Germany and the Netherlands and France, people are like, oh, we got, you know, plenty of trains, and so they get one and they hire this train and it's supposed to take them around the continent do all the blow they want.

Turns out the train had been Hitler's personal carriage, right, So it's outfit with all these decaded gold fixtures, velvet curtain, a lot of read well appointed divans. You know, it's just really right. Everything is the way Hitler liked it, and it included in the rental price of this train carriage. Came a personal attendant. He was this really old German Man, old Elizabeth. He had once been Hitler's personal assistance. That's exactly like, that's the kind where where was your dad?

Where were you in the war? Literally, so that's what cocaine can do for you. Anyway, So we're not here to talk at cocaine. They We're here to talk about battling Fleetwood. Manup, okay, the original lineup for Fleetwood Mac. I didn't know this. I had to look it up. It's also a point of debate. Apparently, people look say, no, this is when it was the original lineup. This is the original lineup, but as best as I can determine, the original lineup was Peter Green, Danny Kerwin, Jeremy Spencer,

John McVie, and Mick Fleetwood. And they had a manager, Clifford Davis, who was really involved, who was the co founder of the band. Okay, okay, so Mick Fleetwood was an original member, original member. Maybe that song Fleetwood Mac was about him. Oh, I'll explain it. Don't let that dango out there. I'll give you plenty of clue. Okay. Now, the things start well for the band. They're in the UK. They're doing this like you know, blues revival sound, and

this is like the late sixties now nineteen seventy. Peter Green's like, look, guys, I'm out. It's not doing what I thought we're gonna do. So a year later, Jeremy Spencers like, look i'm out too. I'm gonna go do my own blues thing. Cliff Davis is like, okay, well that's no problem. Hires two new cats. He it's Bob Welch and Christine Mcvighe to join the band. So Christine

mcvige comes in starts to really shape the sound. And now this is also kind of a difficult time for the band though, because Mick Fleetwood's like, you know, who are we? What are we becoming right on the precipice of success? What do we need to do to break through in America? So now in nineteen seventy three, we have two original members of the band left, John McVie and Mick Fleetwood. We've got the new members Bob Welch,

he's on guitar and vocals. We've got Christine McVie on keyboards of vocals, and Bob Weston on guitars and vocals. Because it's the seventies band, Isn't Mick Fleetwood like nine ft tall? It's really really tall. Yeah, I think it's like nine ft two. I had a painting boss, so I used to go over to his house and like while he poured himself a morning cocktail and he would

he would watch this um like I don't know. It's like a PDS like we if you donate this year, we'll give you this special and it was of it was like a boomer like made gift pasket. And so you get like the Fleetwood Mac performance, but the USC marching band for Tusk and that's yeah for Tusk. And so we had to watch before we before we could leave the house. He had to hear TuS. I got

to hear the band. Do you think that that was like one of those PBS things in like the early nineties when Clinton had the whole dumb up completely, just as a hangover of that Our sound, Our moment in the morning breakfast. So the h in true Fleetwood Max style, things are going well but also a little bit stressy and messy. Right, So what happens is, you know, something else very Fleetwood Mackie, an extra marital affair breaks out.

Now Bob Weston has an affair with Nick Fleetwood's wife, Jenny Boyd, and the affair, obviously meant to remain secret, does not remain secret. Mick Fleetwood learns about his wife cheating with his new guitar player, and he's like, oh, he's destroyed by the double betrayal. Right, He's like, I want to quit my tour, I want to quit the band, I want to quit the marriage. I just want to quit everything, right, big emotional guy. So manager Cliff Davis is like, oh man, this is this is not good.

Everybody I got band members asleep and he wants to break it up or right on the edge of success. So he thinks about it for like, I don't know thirty seconds. He's like, I got it. I got a solution, and so he goes on, I'll just browbeat mc fleetwood. He's emotional. I'll threatened him. He's like, So Cliff Davis goes to Mick and he's like, if you blow this tour, you'll never get another chance. And Mick Fleetwood's like, oh man,

he's ambitious, he's young, he needs this. So he listens to his manager, he considers his options, and then he calls Bob Weston. He goes, look, you're fired. And then he goes and he calls the tour manager. He's like, cancel the tour. So he just do exactly what he wanted to do. So there's twenty six dates left on this schedule, right, manager Cliff Davis calls the tour manager just says, look, do not counsel the dates, don't don't tell call anybody. We're on the hook for all this.

This will kill us. Right, McK fleetwood's gonna go home. He's having a family trouble, so he starts brainstorming more. He's like, look, I don't need McK fleetwood. I'm Fleetwood Mac right. So he decides I can just hire people. So I have the legal right to do that because I co founded the band and I owned the rights, and he's had these contracts because it's like bad music

business of the sixties and really manipulative contracts. I'ld rely like own the right to their ability to publicly perform music, you know, like yeah, weird coming tacts right, So he goes to the band. He goes, look, Mick Fleetwood's going back to the UK, and he's just a little mad with you guys, but hell cool out. So why don't you guys keep going, I'll hire a new Mick Fleetwood. And they're like, you can't do that, bro, We're not doing it. It's like, look, do it or you're out

of the band. And they're like, well what band? Are we still a band? He's like yeah, we gotta finish twenty six dates and like oh. So they get together have a little like chit chat about and they're like, no, we're not doing it. Blow Cliff. Cliff was like, all right, fine, I can I'll get a whole new band. So he hires a whole new Fleetwood map right, and he tells, you, guys, you got twenty six dates. Let's hit becomes a band

before you went that cover band, before they're famous. Now there's a problem with this because when he hires the new band, he tells them your Fleetwood Mac. You guys are just you know, tour musicians. Mick Fleetwood's gonna be back on tour. And that is as you know, we in the story industry, we call that a lie. They they there was no meat Fleetwood coming back, so they were they were hired under the idea that this was a temporary fix. They didn't know that they were Fleetwood.

They were not told you're now Fleetwood. They were scabs and they were not even well placed skes. So Cliff Davis, so he's focused on the band's momentum. That's the only thing that matters to him. Quality was job number two. He was like, look, as far as we keep everything rolling, how it's rock music, How hard could this be? You know, I headed the g string. I don't know. So Cliff Davis He's like, Okay, this is my band, and he would explain it to anybody and uh, I'll explain it

to you. I quote from Cliff Davis. I've always been the leader of the band, as much a lot of people over the years. If constructed. The Fleetwood Mac is Fleetwood and McVie. Fleetwood Mac was a song written by Peter Green when he was with John May. All Okay, that's like his whole like, it can't be there. It's not about Mick Fleetwood. It's about me me, and so he then like, since it's about this Peter Green song.

This was also part of the contract aspect because Christine McVie had a contract with him which he first joined the band. So to get around the new Mick Fleetwood that is created, Mick Fleetwood is left with only one recourse, which is legal. He's like, let's start filing contracts. You love lawyers, so uh well, I don't. I don't really know this band, but the maybe some of these names will be familiar to you. You know music better than I do. The new Fleetwood Mac was like one cat

named Elmer Gantry. I know it from the movies. I don't hear a person right now. That's not his real name. His mom and named him Dave Todd. Dave Todd and then there's cur Be Gregory, Paul Martinez, a cat named John Dave or David Wilkinson. And then there was Craig Collingay. This band goes out of Sleetwood Mac. The band is set to do their first shows in January February nineteen

seventy four. Right now, first show they're gonna do. It's Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Now, Elizabeth, I would like you to close your eyes and picture it and check one to three. Check your backstage. You're working as a concert promoter. The seventies have been good to you. Your friend is a newly self minted music producer, Rich Angler, and he's the one who's called you in to help with this new show. You spot your friend Rich Angler, moving fast backstage. You want to flag him

down and ask about the timetable for the show. You hope to have a few minutes alone with the band so you can ask them, abou didn't you last the many changes for the set or a request for their stage package. You wanted all to go so well for your friend rich Now Angler just recently started this new concert promotion business, as you are well aware, and you know that he's nervous about everything, So you let him streak past you. You don't interrupt. You're figuring he's handling something.

You'll catch him later. But then you see him stop dead in his tracks, and you he pauses to talk with the man. You recognize his Cliff Davis, the manager of the band that's about to go on, and you hear Angler asked Cliff Davis, where the hell is Fleetwood Mac? But you just saw the band in their dressing room. In fact, you're sure of it, and you saw Anglers speak with them earlier, so he should know they're here.

What is he asking? Where's Fleetwood Mac? Then it all makes sense to you when you hear Angler tell the manager Cliff Davis, I don't know what the hell you think you're polling, but that's not Fleetwood Mac in the dressing room. Who the hell are those bozos? Bozos? I love calling people both. Cliff Davis keeps insisting that those bozos are indeed Fleetwood Mac. So Angler knows the band personally, he's he's loves the he's friends with the band. This

is his first show. He hired them knowing it would be a success because Fleetwood Mac would go out there and hello, Pittsburgh and knock it at dead right. He needs that, not these bows. So Rich Angler tells Cliff Davis he doesn't know, like what you can get away with in the UK, but this is Pittsburgh, man, and they don't go for that. Queen's English bollocks. Three River

City man. Rich Angler he tells the manager of the so called Fleetwood Mac they ain't going on my stage, and Cliff Davis is like, yeah, they are, I got a contract and so rich is like, I don't know what to do about that. I'm knowing this business. So he loses his cool. He gets emotional. He takes a swing at Cliff David. He is like, yeah, haul's off, decks him right. The Cliff Davis is pretty quick. It barely hits him because this is not the first time

someone has wanted to punch. Cliff David ready for the swing, so he dodges the first punch. He gets caught by the surprise second and while Rich Anglers standing over going that's Pittsburgh's son. You're like about to try to calm him down, and then you're like this real fist fight. Rock and roll babies, this is what's happened in Pittsburgh, but security runs over, breaks it up, and Angler throws up his fan his hands in disgust and he's like, look fine, let him on stage. I don't give a

flying fig. It's their reputation you're ruining, not mine. Ten minutes later, pretend Fleetwood Mac takes the stage. Band starts playing. They know the hits, They played the songs right, you know, and they played the new songs off the new album, and surprise, surprise, they actually sound good. It sounds like Fleetwood Mac. And you catch up to Rich Angler and you're happily surprised to hear him say to look at that the band, whoever the hell they are, not have

bad You're like, oh, went went well for him? Like kiss, he was so nervous. But you joke that the audience must be like, I don't know, zonked out of their head on goofball pills. What's the deal? Are they high on the maui wali because this is clearly not Fleetwood Mac. But England just looks at you, like, where do you get these references? Have been injecting doobies? Are they? Are they on the tie sticks? So Fleetwood Mac, you know, they're like I guess Pittsburgh doesn't know what Fleetwood Mac

looks like. And just this sounds like the crowd is cool with the show, but the real heads recognized this band is not Fleetwood Mac. And then you go and they demand their money back, and Angler doesn't want to have problems, so he gives out the refunds. Everything's cool, onto the next show. Now, after a short break, I'll tell you how this all goes really badly and turns into a legal nightmare. Alright, Elizabeth, I left you in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

Did leave me in Pittsburgh. I'm gonna pick you up there and we're gonna travel onto Potsdam, New York. All right, that's upstate New York. Yes, in Potsdam, New York, the fake band they play another show. This one's kind of intended like it's like a Broadway show, like on the road before you hit Broadway. They're supposed to kind of get because the next tour date is New York City and they've got to be on point for New York. So they play pots Day. Things go well, and then

they get to New York on schedule. This is gonna be rock. Journalists are there and they've already heard rumors about the Pittsburgh show. It's filtered out, and now they know there's some fake band pretending to be Fleetwood Mac. And they're like, we got to see this for our show. And some of them they know Cliff Davis, so they call him up there like I need an exclusive interview. I'm gonna need the story on this, and yeahh come on to the hotel. Right the Cliff Davis tells some

rock journalists, right, this is my band. I've always been the leader of the band as such. And so they're like, well what, yeah, but does this Fleetwood Mac? It is if I say it is, right, so, and then he adds that he goes back to his previous lie, which is Mick Fleetwood. He flew home for family troubles, right, and he's like telling everybody he flew to America in January, God is gotten some problems, flew back and he'll be back soon. He's just give him some time, give them

made a little air. Now the show must go on right right now, Everybody's like, yeah, okay, man, Cliff Davis, your band. I guess this is the new Fleetwood Mac. Until it kicks back right New York City show goes off. Now, remember that half good momentum coming out of Pittsburgh kept going into Potsdam. But right before the show, half an hour before they're supposed to go on to New York City, Elmer Gantry comes out goes, I don't have a voice. I've just lost my voice. The concert promoters like, what

are you talking? What do you mean you have to tell you would have known this hours ago. Yeah, it just happened right, So, like apparently Cat loses his voice totally gone. So no one knows what to do. They call up like basically the lawyer and like, the way, what do we do? We I would get back the money to all thirty people are here and it's like, no, no, not giving back any money. Um, here's what we're gonna do. Just have the band go out and make an announcement

and then that meets our contractual obligations. And they're like, Okay, that's what we're gonna do. So they go out and they they have this. By the way, the opening act for this show is Kiss. So the crowd is how big is the venue is this see Academy. It's like it's a hold of like five thousand people. It's like a pretty big floor, you know, kind of like fillmore is what I was imagining. I didn't actually, I'm sorry. If they had like tour insurance that they would have

to I don't know. Yeah, I'm sure they have all of the riders and back and requirements and and like you know, the aspects of like you must cancel by this and this percentage of refunds. So they were opening Kisses opening, Yeah, so they have they have Kiss hotting up the crowd and they've got the lawyer going. And then go out there and tell them they we're not going to do full makeup Kiss full makeup, Yeah, like on the high boot, all leather, white tongues, hang Gene

Simmons is making everyone in the first row pregnant. Yes, so yeah, it's just Fleetwood Mac and that is a crazy lineup. Yeah, right, So pretend Fleetwood Mac follows Kiss on stage with whatever's whatever is left on stage for them to perform, and the band tries to carry on with an overly long instrumental set that the crowd has been worn. Look, the lead singers sick, guys. So we're gonna just do like a jam if that's cool. But if you don't want to hear that. You've got fifteen

minutes to go ask for a refund. So eight hundred of the thirty four under people go and ask for a refund. I'm out, I'm New York. I got other better things to do than here a thirty minute jam. A lot of people like I really want to hear Hi, man, I've been waiting to hear Fleetwood Mac. So they sit down and listen to the jams or whatever. Now New York rock journalists are there, and the music press, for an entirely different experience, want the scoop all right, right,

They're like, where the hell's Fleetwood Mac? And who are these Boswood Mac? So they write their stories, stories get written published. A filter across the Atlantic reads the story freaks out because remember once again precipice of success, like they are about to go huge and they lose it on just this is a terrible story. So he started immediately getting on the phone and going I had no idea what's going I didn't know the band was still on tour. I'm over in the UK. How can they

be on tour without me? And everyone's like, yeah, I totally get to your pist. So then cloth Davis is like, what's he saying? What's Cliff Davis do? Is like, told you? He sues him. So he sues Mick Fleetwood, you gotta stop saying that I owned the band. You you can't say what you're saying. So he then tells Mick Fleetwood he cannot perform as mic as Fleetwood Mac. He cannot, you know, record as Fleetwood Mac. He owns it and fleet and Mick Fleetwood's like, no, no, no, that that

that's not how this goes. We have a whole different agreement. So they start going and countersuing each other losses are becomes a whole nightmare. Rolling Stone covers all of this, going to the contemporaneous coverage from Rolling Stone, quote, when is a Fleetwood Mac not a Fleetwood Mac? Although there is a band called Fleetwood Mac currently in the midst of a two and a half month US tour, that question is puzzling some promoters, some fans, and Warner Brothers.

So to answer this question of what makes a Fleetwood Mac of Fleetwood Mac, the rock magazine spoke with the manager Cliff Davis, and everyone wants to get to the bottom of this mystery and Cliff Davis says, and I quote, I want to get this out of the public's mind. As far as the band being Mick Fleetwood's band, the band is my band. The band has always been my band. Band manager. This is some like Minuto level stuff, just

a rotatum in as are six under sixteen. This wasn't enough because he wanted to really squash any Mick Fleetwood's power. So Cliff Davis ads, I just decided it was time to change the band, certainly on stage, and that's what I did. I've always been thought of the leader. I've always thought of picked who was going to be in it and who wasn't. I decided to keep Mick, how decent of him. Yeah, So this wasn't obviously the full story.

So going back to the pages of Rolling Stone, and I quote Bob Welch, the American guitarist who joined Fleetwood two and a half years ago when original member Jeremy Spencer found god in Los Angeles, denied the whole David's story at Presstin was in route to England to meet with Fleetwood, the Nick Vee's Weston and lawyers to straighten the whole matter out. So now we're going to get into more of the counter sing. Yeah. As far as Mick Fleetwood's take on this whole debaclest he always kept

it short in the press. Is much as possible, Mick would tell the press of the day and I quote the last thing we needed. It was also the most preposterous thing we've ever heard in the greatest betrayal from one of my own that we could have imagined. He keeps going with the emotional. So then we have the band's label, Warner Brothers once their take on the two Fleetwood Max which one do they have? Right? They've got business interest to consider right now. And I quote from

Rolling Stone. At Warner Brothers in Burbank, Don schmitz Ley, executive director label management, has been on the case. I'm in the midst of trying to find out who has exclusivity on the name. He said, until then the record company can do nothing. So they legally cannot until they're it's determined who is Fleetwood Mac. It goes on like this, and uh, lawsuits are going back and forth. We're in mid seventy four right, so a court steps in from

the UK side. The UK High Court rules at the band to be granted an injunction that prevents manager Cliff Davis from putting his fake Fleetwood mac out there. Like, clearly you're in so how's this an issue? But in the exciting world of contract law, that was not enough. So Fleetwood finds that Cliff Davis's contract still does preclude him from being able to legally record and put out albums and sell them. So there's injunctions going back and forth.

Davis controls performance rights for Christine McVie, so they can't perform, which he's in it. Then he has recording rights on Mick Fleetwood, so everything's all blocked up. Mc fleetwood goes to Los Angeles and it's like, maybe we can record a new album. They do. They call it Heroes Are Hard to Find and then the group that's the name of the album they put it out. Okay, mccliff Davis, being an English bulldog, he sues from the UK. He's like, you can't just put it out in America because they

don't sell it in UKA. They just sell it and he's like, look, you have a UK law will come for us in America down to the U S courts essentially is the challenge, right, So he Thence files a fresh lawsuit and cites his contract with Christine McVie. So Cliff Davis just stays filing paper right now, the battling Fleetwood Max. They continue to start kele and swipe at each other in court, and this goes on and on.

But apparently some of this vitriol may not have been real at all, because I found a twenti seventeen BBC radio interview where the aforementioned Elmer Gantry spoke out on the matter. Elbert so Elmer said, Cliff Davis, he approached them. He said, Hey, I want you guys to form a new band that would be called Fleetwood Mac. He said new band Fleetwood Max. So that was clear. But at first they were down because they thought Mick Fleetwood was

gonna be in. So they were confused about new Fleetwood Mac. But still Mick Fleetwood's I'm like, okay whatever. Now that's also the what Mick told them. He told the replacements, I'm coming back to be in the band with you. So that contradicts everything because he's supposed to be all angry about this. Gantry said in an interview, Mick Fleetwood came to our house and we talked through the new band and it all seemed fine. Mick said, well, I

can't actually come and rehearse with you. It was like fairly imminent going to the America to tour, but if you got a temporary drummer, I'll go and join you for the tour. So he's like basically saying that Mick told him the same planing Cliff Davis did. Apparently, either Mick was a you know, he's in on the dupe the whole time, or Elmer Gantry's memory is a little like you know, or or none of these are reliable narrators.

Nobody remembers the truth right, But apparently Elmer Gantry did say he and fake Fleetwood Mac went over potential set list with Mick Fleetwood and he gave his approval to the set list. So he was very well aware. So this wasn't a surprise at all from what he said. Now, whatever lies chaos, that's the Fleetwood Mac way. Now let's get back to their album. Heroes are hard to find, right that to support this album, they go out on tour in America and they're like, what are you gonna

do about it? Bro? Come after us? Right, And he's like, of course, but they have more problems and other members, like the dude Bob Welch is like, uh, you know, I don't want to leave the band. This is all just getting into so much of a problem. I can't do anymore. I have nothing left to give. That's a

literal quote. I have nothing to give. So the next year, Mick Fleetwood he's in Los Angeles thinking about like doing another album because he hasn't had like you know, he's able to be able to record the album and release it in America. Cliff Davis can't totally block him, so he's messing around into studio trying to decide what to do in a sound Engineers like, hey man, you guys need to record here because we got this new board and here you got to hear this new uh this

demo album I just recorded. So he puts on the demo album to show off the capabilities of the studio, and Mick Fleetwood, here's his future just appear in the air. He's like, what is this? This debut turns out to be an LP featured two young American talents, Stevie Nicks

and Lindsey Buckingham. So the next year they've reform as the new Fleetwood Mat and that's the one that I know about, right, So they record albums, they break through everybody, you know, boom tusk, the whole bit, so Landslide shomers now as the rest day is music history, and of course cocaine and affairs, lots lots of affairs and lots of like witchy woman spinning in shawls, lots of shawls and campbells. Yes, incense and peppermint love it. So, Elizabeth Zar,

what is a ridiculous takeaway here? Ridiculous takeaway is the music industry is a mess. Yes, and they love lawyers. Oh yeah yeah, and everyone would benefit from mediation. Oh, like it should have gone to a mediator. I just

love the fight over the name Fleetwood Mac. And I've actually thought a lot about Fleetwood Mac being Mick Fleetwood Christine mcviigh, like I if you said, zaren're gonna cut off a finger if you can't, if you can't tell us how fewood Like I love when we do these kind of like oh you know, but like imagine being in a situation like literally where someone's like I'm going to cut off your finger. You can't can't tell me how did I get to this place in my life

that this is happening. I'm like like a dock on a lake somewhere and I don't know these anyway. Um, did you ever get Did you rEFInd the song Fleetwood Mac that Dude City wrote? No? I didn't even look. What's it about? I assume Fleetwood Mac? Is it about Mick Fleetwood being a mac being the Mac? Yes, it's Fleetwood the Mac. Doesn't it doesn't compute like I didn't believe because like this makes no sense. I treated this story like skiing, right, like the first time I went skiing.

I mean, yes, I don't do it. What I mean is that, like I found myself on top of a mountain n ski before. I didn't know what to do. I didn't take a lesson, I had no idea what was going on. I just wanted to get through it, so I said shut myself off. I started going got faster and got crazier, and I just held on. And suddenly I was at the bottom and I was like, I made it through that. I don't know how. So I didn't pause to ask what is this Fleetwood Max? So I was just like a tree going past. I

was like I didn't hit that nice. So that's what I got for you is a sensation. I can tell you the sensation of that makes sense. Yeah, there's still I'm just hey, there's Google. Look it up. I guess that's that's my ridiculous little thing called Google. Well, you can find us online. Ridiculous Crime about Twitter and Instagram. Use Google. Twitter is from the discards Instagrams with the photos. We put stories up there. Good for the jokes, and you get sneak peaks of new weps on both emails

if you want, you can also tweet at us. But if you email up, pick Ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com. Thanks for listening. Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and Zarin Burnett, produced and edited by Stevie Knick's personal assistant Dave Cousten. Research is by Lindsey Buckingham Truther Marissa Brown. Our theme song is by Thomas mac fleetwood Lee and Travis fleet mac Wood Dutton. Executive producers are Ben Wilberry Bolan and Noel Wilberry Brown. Disquiet Say It One More

Time We Dequeous Crow. Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeart Radio four more podcasts. To my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.