Ridiculous crime is a production of iHeartRadio, Elizabeth.
What are we doing here? We're supposed to be on vacation.
I never go on vacation. You never go on vacation. I mean they closed the building down and we have to do like we did this morning where we lock pick break in.
You're welcome for that for Christmas, Thank you so much. I think the lessons have been helping both of us.
But they keep us, they keep us out of here, but not one hundred percent.
They can't keep us out, can't.
They really can't.
Well, the reason why I call it for this confab and headquarters today. Yes, I don't tell producer Day were here. No, I had a story update for you one I wanted to share. You may remember the story about Rita Crunwell ran back on July nineteenth, twenty twenty two.
Okay, you remember that name?
Yes, oh yeah, she was the comptroller for the small town of Dixon in western Iloni. Right, she's the one who embezzled millions of dollars from the coffers of her little small town, innocent small town. And she's like a hoover vacuum taking up cash right now, Why why would she do this to her small town, well, Elizabeth, because she could buy herself a mess, a mess of pretty ponies and show horses.
Yeah, and she was just rotten to the core, totally. No.
It took her two plus decades of doing this, and she stole fifty three million dollars from her.
Small So crazy for such a small town.
Right now, I don't want to give away the whole story, but I'll tell you this. Eventually she gets busted, she gets sent to prison. But Elizabeth, the reason I called you into headquarters today is because outgoing President Joe Biden has been horsing around with pardons and commutations for federal prisoners. And you know what those are, right Well, yeah, pardons are different from computatation.
To this commutation, you change the sentence.
Yeah, exactly. So, Rita, she gets a commutation, they basically void her sentence. She's now seventy one years old. She's already seen some kindness when it comes to this justice because thanks to reduction in the number of federal prisoners during COVID, Rita, she got sent home to finish her sentence on house arrest. Chief petition for this, she got
an early release. They gave a toy, right, they sent her to her halfway house where she has been living, and then like, well, you know, just send her all the way home. So now she's all the way out. And let me tell you, the folks in her hometown at Dixon, they are picked. Dude, there's this one cat, Danny Leglosa. He's the city manager of Dixon. He said,
and I quote, the city of Dixon is shocked and outraged. Now, Leglosa added, and I once again quote, this is a complete travesty of justice and a slap in the face for our entire community. This dude, he was the police chief when old Rita was bilking their hometown. Yeah, now he's the city manager, so he's really protective of this place. And it explains why he would say and I quote, this definitely cuts the scar open. It's not a scab,
it's a scar. It's a deep one. At a time when the federal government is the least trusted institution in the country to do something like this.
Now, I also this.
Former cup he turned city manager. He described Rita. He knows her obviously, so he called her a quote sociopath who demonstrated no remorse, who destroyed the people that were closest to her, not a feeling of guilt for what she put our town through. He wasn't done, Elizabeth, because you know, after eight years of being in jail, she walks and he could. Well, he said, it's just not right.
Just the laziness to carte blanche commute, the sentence of everyone or nearly everyone that was put on home detention during COVID, not even giving consideration to the victims or their crimes.
Man makes some points, right now.
You know, I'm not quite a prison abolitionist, but I'm not looking to lock people up. So there's also the Okay, the law enforcement community, they worked so hard to put this homegirl away, right, they now describe what she is doing as dancing in the streets of Dixon with their commutation. That was the words of US Marshal Jason Wajdolo. Okay, Now he said she quote conned the President of the United States. Yeah, he was really pissed. Now I'll get
the last word. I'll give it to his current mayor, Dixon Lee Ariano. Right, he called out the real world costs of what Rita did. Her horse obsessed greed, right, he said, and I quote, you can't steal fifty three million dollars and it's non violent. It hurts your public safety. We had an ambulance that smoked when it went down the street, Elizabeth, this more Town ambulance Tupaca day has it disgusting? All be goes of old Rita Crunwell and
heard my little ponies. Now let's sit back, relax, and let's hear how Rita Crunwell did it all for the horse.
Let me just point out really quickly, this lady sucked the public teat dry. She took the money. Why do we still have to pay for her? If she's like in her seventies and six, I don't want to I don't want to give her four square you know, three squares? Yeah, wherever you say it, you know what I mean. Like I if she's just I don't know. I think she's kind of been brought low. I can't imagine that she's living high on the hogs. So I say I'm tired of paying.
For Let's see her do some restitution on that fifty three million.
Yeah exactly, just Michael.
Anyway, whatever, this one is still criminally ridiculous, So enjoy read the Crunwell and her little ponies.
Elizabeth Dutton Zaren. Do you know what's ridiculous. Yeah, I'll tell you what's ridiculous.
Oh, hit me with it.
Okay, when you don't want your car stolen, which is not that's not ridiculous. No one wants her car stolen unless you just need to get rid of it. Well, sure, evidence wise, but let's say you don't trust the club, you don't trust the locks or an alarm. Did you know I think this is ridiculous. You can buy a boot for your own car.
I think I know where you're going with.
This, Like it's not just a municipal thing. Did you get some reason to one recently? Where did you see in my neighbor's driveway?
What your neighbor boots his own car?
It boots his own car. And I have decided that's ridiculous, Yes, I would agree and idiotic.
Why does he boot his own car because he had a car stolen a couple of times? No, did he have his like something else stolen. He's just kind of like gunshy about this innocence I don't know, just snatched from him and now he's like, not my truck.
I think maybe he shouldn't be living in the city.
Oh definite, Yeah, definitely. So wait, is he like somebody from like rural small town America? Nope? Hmm what's his deal?
I don't know, but he's ridiculous.
I'll completely concur with that. Now I got one for you, Yes, you're ready. This is a story. It's about a middle aged woman. She's from rural, small town Illinois, and this particular Midwestern woman she uh, she had a taste for
that sweet sweet horsey breeding life. Oh oh yeah. Now to pay for her horse jones, she decided to dip into the bank account not of her wealthy husband, not of her family, but of her town, her hometown, and she used the money that she could on the horses, and she started diverting so much of the town's budget that the town was almost going bankrupt. Oh he's a perfect criminal. Since no one sees her coming. This is the story of Rita Crundwell, the woman who got hooked
on horse. I'm sorry, the horses, woman who got hooked on horses, those sweet, sweet ponies. This is Ridiculous Crime a podcast about absurd and outrageous capers, heists, and cons. It's always ninety nine percent murder free and ridiculous. Today's bizarre tale of small town crime takes place in the American heartland. One of your favorite places, Elizabeth, America's heartland is now this story of Rita Crundwell. It takes place in a very specific part of rural small town America,
the Illinois of Dixon. Now, this is also famous for a couple of things. Before Rita Crundwell, it was famous as the hometown of the star of the Bedtime for Bonzo series of movies would later become I believe a politician Ronald Reagan that yeah, uh huh. And then Dixon, Illinois is also the petunia capital of well, not the world, but of Illinois. It's the petunia capital of Illinois, which is you know, high praise for Illinois.
Oh yeah.
Also the catfish capital of Illinois once again of Illinois.
Very original fish. Not the practice of people not.
Like really good at like hooking up with like like foreigners, getting them to come over here.
And be like, wait a minute, cat the bottom feeder.
Yeah, this is not like mante Teo's hometown. Now, our second fun fact about Dixon is that Rita Crundwell lives there. And she is the fifth most prolific embezzler of all.
Time, of all times, of all time.
Day, Elizabeth, has the FBI ever come to your home or place of work and asked to speak with you?
Well, Elizabeth, no they haven't. They haven't asked to speak with me. But one time when I worked at a certain place, they came.
In, really, but not to talk to me. Did you get to watch them operate?
Yeah? Well not really. They went into another office and then everyone was terrified in our office and screaming around. And I was like, well, we haven't done anything, wait have we?
And then okay, well I've got a little fun visualization for you. You're ready. This is the moment when the FBI comes to your work and what that is?
Like?
You ready? I want you to close your eyes, yes, I want you to picture it. It's a Tuesday morning in April. It's early in the day, a little after nine am. You're working at the Dixon City Hall. You're a part time secretary, just typing away, doing your thing. It's how Rita started at city Hall. And you spot these three FBI agents. They push open the double doors, streaming in sunlight behind them. The noises of the day on Main Street Dixon. All come pouring in, these FBI agents.
They stride in with purpose and they're looking past you. You're like, but no, oh, I greet people. They're like, no, we know where we're going. They go marching up the stairs. You go to follow to see if they need help, trying to get to wherever it is that they're going. And as you're going up the marble steps, you can see them make the turn and start heading towards the Mayor's office. You're like, okay, I know where they're going, so you trail behind them. You follow them all the
way down the hallway. They get to the Mayor's office. Mayor Jim Burke is in his office that morning. This is a point of fact because he's a part time mayor. He's not always in the office. This morning he is. He's very common now, full time real estate agent, part
time mayor. Jim Burke is a good hearted guy and so, you know, kind self effacing, kind of Midwestern guy, Big Jim Burke, Big Jim Burke, and with the FBI agents come in, he's really friendly, nice to them, and you're right on the FBI's six right you're watching past them into Mayor Jim Burke's office because you want to see what all this hullabaloo is about.
Oh, hella, I figured you were in real life.
Yes, And so as Mayor Jim Burke is greeting the FBI agents, you notice he doesn't look scared, fright and intimidated nothing. He's cool as a cucumber and a bowl of hot sucks because my man Sci would say, yeah. And Big Jim is sitting there and he's like, you know, I basically called you into the office. It seems he's got that demeanor like he invited the FBI. And know why would he invite the FBI? You're wondering, Well, the FBI agents they don't say anything at first, they just
keep doing their business. And uh, you don't know this, but you're about to find out that the FBI has been working with Mayor Jim Burke to bust one of the employees in city Hall and today is the day.
For the silver bracelets to be slapped on their wrist. Wow.
Mayor Jim Burke's face starts to lighten a little bit. He looks at the FBI guys. You're like, what's going on a moment? The excitement is just rippling through you. And all of a sudden, Mayor Burke says to the three FBI agents, are we ready? You're like, oh, it's going down the one. The FBI guys replies, yes, let's bring her in. Mayor Burke picks up his telephone. He dials an extension in city Hall. People Bob bo bo bob, and then he waits, puts the phone on speaker mode.
You can hear the down the hall ringing. You're like, did you call someone in the office. You hear a woman's voice at the other end. Hello, She's got a nice, sunny, you know, springtimey voice. Mayor Burke, very serious, very solemn, says Rita, would you mind stepping into my office for a minute. Rita replies sure.
Now.
A moment later, her office door opens. You hear it, and also then you hear footsteps clean She's going down the hallway, the marble steps, her heels, they get louder, she gets closer. You're so anticipatory, you just cannot wait for the moment what is going to be happening. Rita pokes her head in the doorway that you're standing there in the doorway with her. Now she squeezes and she says hi, and everyone turns a three. FBI engagent's turn.
Mayor Jim Burke turns. You just kind of just glance over at her because she's standing there right next to you. The FBI agents say, Rita, would you mind coming in? Mayor Burke reiterates, Rita, would you please mind stepping into my office? The lead FBI says, Hi, I'm with the FBI. That moment has come.
You're like, oh, it's going down now.
He flashes his badge. Rita looks at it, and her face starts to break a little. She knows it's over her decades of lies, the fraud, the embezzlement, the scams, the cons all of it are coming crashing down. But yet her face doesn't fully show it. Just the hint of it is in her eyes. The lead FBI guy continues, Rita, we'd like to ask you some questions. Mayor Burke stares at Rita. Meanwhile, Rita's face still hasn't changed. It's just placid, and you're like, how is she doing this? She just
keeps smiling. It just the small pert smile breaks on her face. It's almost midwestern and polite, super eerie, and then the FBI agent slapped the cuffs on her and they say she won't talk. They're taking into the office. They leave city Hall, they purp walk her out. Everybody is a gas They're all looking, Oh my goodness, it's Rita, Rita. I can't believe it's Rita. That moment was the moment when Mayor Jim Burke finally realize what we will call the Tao of Rita Crundwell, now what is the tao
of Rita Crunwell? Well as it goes, he said, and I quote, it showed me she didn't give a about our town. Oh yeah, So how much did Rita exactly not give about the town of Dixon, Illinois?
Tell me, can you guess? No, try the tune of fifty three million dollars? Fifty three million dollars fifty three million dollars. How did the town have that much money to begin with?
Well, that was over multiple years. She was just basically siphoning off cash to pay for her horses, year after year after year after year from this small little town until she'd taken fifty three million dollars in The FBI showed up and said we'd like to talk to Rita.
Can I tell you how excited I am that they didn't kick me out when they started doing this whole Rita, we need to talk to you. They just let me stand in the doorway. I like that.
I knew you'd like to kind of just watch that same out. Yeah, the FBI is very generous, you know, in small.
Town America, and they sent the FBI comes. It's not like state police or anything. So this is big time.
Yeah, they didn't bring the US marshals to grab her. They wanted to talk with her and then to Couffer. So coincidentally, that fifty three million I just told you, that's the exact same amount that Kanye West was in bankruptcy for in twenty sixteen. Oh, he's now almost a billionaire. If he's not already a billionaire, I don't know who cares. But the point is is that's a sizable chunk of money. It's enough to turn you into a billionaire, and in
this case, it was enough to pretty much bankrupt her hometown. Wow. Now let's say you stole fifty three million dollars, Elizabeth, so we say it together.
You still fifty three million million dollars.
Elizabeth, Okay, oh good, Now you didn't donate any of it. You just had to spend all of it on yourself or stuff or whatever gifts. I don't care. What would you spend fifty three million, No, I'll limit it. What animal would you spend fifty three million dollars on?
Oh? Dogs? Hello?
Dog?
Really you wouldn't go like big like peacocks or bears, or I would have a standing dog army that would be completely pampered. Okay, yeah, it would be wild.
What would you do with your dog army? I mean, you got enough money to pamper them, so, like, how are you going to pamper.
Them various acts of vengeance? No? I would would you have for them? Everyone gets their own bed so they don't all try and sleep on my bed. Okay, They get the finest of foods and table scraps. Okay, I don't know, buy like a bunch of acres and build my own dog parks.
Like would you travel with them? Would you get like maybe like a very large trailer and a truck and you take them on a road trip around the country.
With all their heads outside of exactly sunglasses on all of them. Oh, my god, I would get the nicest sunglasses for all the dogs. Everybody gets a pair of custom ray bands.
Very nice, very nice.
Good.
You're starting to now get what Rita Crundwell was about.
Oh was she about that rude dude life.
No, unfortunately she was just about that rude life. Now, after the short break, it's time to meet the star of our story, the embezzler extraordinariy Rita Crundwell.
Elizabeth M.
You used to live in a small town, you told me. Yeah, the small town that we don't have to name it. But living in a small town, you know what it's like. Were there any any liars in your town? Anybody who got busted for a lie? Maybe it was like a divorce that all of a sudden came to light, a scandal with money.
Was anything like that? Of course, human beings live there. Well, yes, I know, but.
I'm saying, but in small towns, it's it's less likely that a secret emerges because people know the secret. It kind of gets whispered about, you know what I mean, Like, it doesn't just get broken in the news. It's more like people knew about it and then it's like the news confirmed. Yeah, but that's about accurate.
I think, yeah, there are secrets that that are sort of known secrets. Everyone's in on it. But then sometimes you gets surprised.
They're gonna be like the violent secrets, the marital secrets, the money secrets. But oftentimes there's the whisper networks of small towns that are totally very different than big cities, right, right, can't be anonymous, right exactly. Keep that in mind as I tell you how Rita Crundwell pulled off her fifty three million dollars theft.
Of all of her How many people lived in this Dixon, Illinois. Sixteen thousand people? All right, yeah, that's pretty small, Yeah, pretty small. Well, that's big compared to where I was living. Oh really yeah, thirteen hundred people, Oh my god, sixteen thousand would be that's the big city.
I going into the big city to get your checks cash.
Oh, that's where like Starbucks is forty five minutes away. Yeah, anyway, so I think that's yeah, in the grand scheme of things, practic pretty small town.
Well getting to Dixon, Illinois, Rita Crunwell's hometown. Rita was one of six Crundwell kids. She grew up on the family farm. She was the type of teen who wore cowboy boots. She drove a beat up pickup truck. She was into four ah. She raised livestock, she competed in livestock shows, and she showed up in the lyrics. I think one or two John Cougar Mellencamp songs.
That's gonna say. She sounds like a character in a New Country lyric.
Yes, she's like Trayce Adkins, ideal girl.
Drinking from a red solo cub, sitting in the pickup.
Saying how much hey means to her? That reminds me of home. Now, Rita cronwells So, she was also a smart girl. She was a National Honor Society member. She was a popular girl, the kind of kid who gets nominated or elected. I don't know how it goes, but to her high school's homecoming court.
Yeah, I don't know how that works.
Yeah, I think it's elected. I don't know anyway. Rita Cronwell all American upbringing. Just keep that in mind. Now, one of the facts I just told you above is not true. I'll let you guess which one. Oh, John Cougar, mellencap Okay, So, Rita our former honor student. Girl with the big glasses, brown hair. Four it's kid cowboy boots got in your mind. Okay.
She goes to work at the city hall thanks to her high school's work study program. So she's like a.
Junior at the time. This is nineteen seventy okay, Okay, So in nineteen seventy one, she graduates and then she takes a job, full time job at city hall. It's like it's a good job all town. So she's like, I'm keeping it around. That same time, Mayor he creates this new position called the town's comptroller. And the comptrollers you were familiar is, handles the money. They're a little
bit different than say the treasurer. They are in charge of like writing the checks, making sure that the check book is balanced.
Yeah.
So this person is important in the town to Dixon because, as I said earlier, Mayor Jim Burke part time mayor, city council, and city council members. Rather there's four of them. They're also all part time, so the city relies on some full time employees to handle city business. So Rita Cronwell joins this full time quatier of city hall employees and eventually she works her way up to treasurer and then from treasurer to comptroller. So it takes her about
thirteen years. So now we're in nineteen eighty three, we're into the Reagan years of America. There is a new feeling about rural America. There's a new optimism coming out of the seventies and inflation. So people are they're having a little bit of a not a go go American moment, but the rural America is feeling better about themselves.
Right.
Rita takes that moment says, I'm feeling better about myself too now, Quicker than you can say Kevin Bacon and footloose. Rita Crundwell starts angling for how she can make her new appointment work for her. Takes her a little bit of time, about seven years. About at that time, she's like, I think I got to handle how I'm gonna scam this town. Now. Rita, she's really good with numbers, Like that's part of her bag is that she's exacting. She's
detail oriented, and everybody knows this about her. It's it's her rep right. The mayor at the time of her arrest said, quote, Rita was very efficient, very pleasant, she got along with everyone, and she knew the job in and out. She seemed like a perfect fit. Yeah. Right, so that's her general mo o that everybody's reacting to.
Yeah.
Now, meanwhile, Rita is acting like a Banana Republic dictator. She decides to take total control of city Hall, which in this case means the flow of information. She has all of the paperwork that she deals with routed to a PO box so nobody can see the mail that is coming to her. Nope, the address that you normally would think of her where the mail would go city hall. The whole reason why you have a city hall was a building for business of city hall to We've be done,
She's like, no, send that to my PO box. I'll do it at home. I'm a work from home kind of gown. This is like way before I work at home.
Yeah. She's like, I'm a workaholic and this way I can work on the weekends. And I see you read it.
Yeah, you say you're onto it.
Yeah.
Apparently in her small town everyone else was like, no, she's just so good at her work.
Well, and one of the things that I noticed living in a small town is that you are sort of locked into your public persona when you're in high school, and so whoever you are in high school tends to follow you through. And so if you were like the handsome quarterback and then you just kind of keep screwing up later people are you know, but he was the handsome quarterback or the state, you're the weird outsider. It's
hard to then change. And so she's like she it's hard to reinvent yourself, whereas like where I'm you know, born and raised California, that's like a pastime, right, mustant reinvention completely, but you're not. Really it's hard. It's hard in a small town. So I can see Rita if she just locks herself in in high school is like National Honor Society, doing work study, riding around in a pickup truck whatever, like doing all the right things for each everyone's gonna see her like that.
Never they never took a second glance. You're so right about that. She apparently locked in and then she used that. I think she was aware of it, like you are that like this is all they see. So the meanwhile, Rita is like basically doing exactly what you're saying, is creating this persona that is impeccable and implacable in terms of like everybody thinks they know Rita, they have no idea who Rita is.
Yeah, right, So, like, for instance, to advance.
Her idea of her being really frugal and meticulous about money, she always deducts money from her own salary for any day of work that she misses. Right now, what this means is if like she's out of office for like a week for to go to a horse show, We'll say she deducts that from her pay, and that balanced out that one year. She makes about eighty three thousand dollars a year, so she one year only made sixty one thousand dollars because she took twenty two thousand dollars
off of her salary. So that way it would look like, you know, well.
Did she not get vacation time or beyond? I think she may have used up her page. Oh so she's just above board, like yeah, look I'm taking leave without pay. You wh she go do horse.
Stuff, horses shows and like travel. People don't know, they just know that she leaves.
Wait a second, So she makes eighty g's a year and she took off twenty that's like a quarter of the time, she's not even there.
I do math.
Yes, they look at you a second semoke coming out of my ears.
I was worried something caught fire. But yeah, nice work.
Like that's like half half of her time.
So they weren't doing this math. The local townspeople they're just so happy and they figured Rito was so good at a job. Meanwhile, that same time, when she's out sick, she has like a family member go to her po box and pick up her work to make sure that nobody ever sees it.
Maybe they're using like the metric that I all jobs would do is like forget the eight hours a day, forty hour week. However, if you get your work done, then fine, you get paid.
Yeah, I'm with you. That should be the stand.
So let's be honest, like a quarter of our time is you know, busy work, messing her doing I don't know, crypto quip so yeah, for instance, for instance, I don't know, just you know, spitball in here, but I think you know she's she's laying out something now, she's doing nefarious things. But if we're all honest with ourselves, yeah, we could get all of our work done in three quarters of the time.
She went way past I'm going to make the biggest ball of rubber bands I can. But I see your point, which is basically, you know, people should be able to work as much as their work is required of right, and not try to fill in some arbitrary oh you got to be here on the clock kind of stuff exactly completely, And Rita would agree with you.
No, I don't like that.
I know you don't want Tor on your side. In nineteen ninety, Rita creates her fake dummy bank account and goes into business of Rita. She starts sidelining money and creating like well what will soon become a vast empire in fortune in the horse world. And the way she did it is she started a city account but in her name, okay, So that way she's the only signatory on the account. But as far as the bank is concerned, it's doing city business.
So it's like City of Dixon.
Exactly, okay, and with signatory Rita, Rita crime. So that's how she starts some in buzzle funds. And she likes it.
She's into it, right, she gets after it.
She's like a I don't know, a colonist in the New World She's like, Oh, look at all this value just lying around here. So her plan works because one there is this constant influx of new city leaders. Right the city council member and new mayor comes in. She teaches them the books, this is how the city works, this is what I do. So she teaches them her cooked books method. When the city auditors come in, because she was smart about this, starting about somewhere in the
mid eighties, she started basically faking the records. Nineteen ninety when she creates her false account and starts diverting funds. By that point she has all these records that are fake. So the auditors looking back seven years they have a false record. They don't yeah, so they can't see it either.
The local town is you know, they're the banks that are supposed to be in charge of the accounts that they keep getting bought up by national banks, so that there no longer is that nosy bank manager who's paying attention to how often Rita is coming in in diverting funds. She's just sitting at home clicking buttons now and Dundale. So there's no oversight either officially by the money cops. There's no oversight by the bank managers, and there's no oversight by her bosses.
Wow right, yes, exactly.
So at this point, the only thing that's holding it together is that everybody, as I keep pointing out, is so convinced that Rita is just so darn good at her job rights. And I'll quote Mayor Jim Burke again, he was just like enamored as mayor. He didn't have to work very hard because if he needed anything done, he just went to Rita. She knew right where it was, so quote I could go unto her and say, Rita, do you have a copy of the cable TV contract from nineteen eighty six? And she'd go right to a
drawer and pull it out. How did you argue with that?
I trust her with the nuclear code exactly.
So, just you know, imagine poor Jim burk surprise when the FBI showed up a city hall for Rita.
But of course he did know at that point. Well wait a second, so what if everything is getting not everything, but if she's diverting significant funds, is the town up and running? Well, I mean, oh no, not at all.
Like that's the thing is so like they couldn't afford to repair the cemetery like they had problems with their cemetery. Their streets were going bad, the street lights weren't working. They couldn't get uniforms and radar guns for the cops. They had basketball courts at all broken ups. The kids can't play on them. They had to go without city jobs or pay increases for years. It was bad.
But Rita knows where the cable contract is exactly.
As long as you find that, What does mayor Jim Burke's really care about the rest of day?
Goodness?
No, but I just like to focus on Rita for a second. Can you imagine being her like lying to everyone you know, everyone you grew up with, everyone you work with every day of your life for decades, and just creating this larger and larger divide between you and who people think you are and who they're giving you credit for you. You're not Rita Crundwell anymore.
No, And she must have the lowest opinion of every other human being to r No, she's sociopathic or is she just something else?
And I don't mean to do a diagnose her.
I'm I don't know, I don't know. I'm sure she's got a whole host of issues. I'm wondering just about what happened to her. Rita who hurts you, I know, right.
So the thing that we do know is that Rita did it for one for the glamour. Oh we know what her motivation was other than the horses. It wasn't just the horses. It was also Rita elects, the diamonds, the fur, the bright lights of the big city. And in this case, the big city is Oklahoma City. Well it's a big city, sure, Okay, yeah, I mean like, yeah, it is a big city if you're from Dickson, Illinois. I'm just saying it's not like, oh, she's out in Manhattan.
I mean, I'm not trying to say it. Every city has to be measured against New York. But there are a lot of big cities in this world. And I will put Oklahoma City up. Oklahoma, I like that about you. My apologies, Oklahoma.
City, well Arts District.
Oh No, I like the city. I'm not like saying anything bad. I just wouldn't say that it's a big city in America, you know, like Houston. Houston's a big city in America. The Oklahoma City, I mean a big heart. Yes, it is a beautiful city with a big heart. The American quarter Horse Association's World Championship Show. It happens to be in Oklahoma City every year.
What do you know? Yeah, and uh, that place is.
I don't know if you've ever been to the American quarter Horse Association World Championship Show.
But I missed it.
Oh then I don't need to tell you. But just for my own edification, I'll remind you that it is possibly one of the largest collections of humans you know that takes place on the North American continent. Bigger than Democratic national conventions, better than the Republican National Convention. It's bigger than the Super Bowl. It's hundreds of thousands of people coming into Oklahoma City just talking horses, walking horses, looking at horses, just being all about horse life for days.
Yeah whatever, Yeah, that horsey life, horse horse life. So like the type of people that you would see in town, Oklahoma City during the quarter Horse Association World Championship Show. People like Harrison Ford, Kevin Costner, Robert Redford, Lyle love it. So all those celebrities that you can think of is like I can imagine him with a horse. The horsey set, the horsey set people are down for that horse life. Yeah, so Rita crunwell, she would like to go and do
Oklahoma City. And whenever she would go, she would show out for bikinis. Not that kind of show out, but but she would put a show on a show. I'll just leave it at that. So the floor of the arena, because just imagine like a giant like basketball stadium or football indorse, football stadium, right, So on the floor of that stadium you would have convention stalls and booze, and Rita would down be down there with everybody else. But instead of having like a table on the stall, she
would have, for instance, a log cabin recreated for the event. Wait, an entire an entire log cabin.
It's like, hey, look, dude, was Abraham Lincoln born there? What's going on here?
Now? That was just the entrance to her section. Once you stepped inside the recreation log cabin, you'd be greeted by the sight of the glitter and the shine of her trophy room she had. You had to walk past all of her trophies.
Like a pageant kid.
Yeah, exactly, like total pagan kid. And she had like that love of like I don't know, ribbons, that whatever, it is that motivates the passion for ribbons. She wanted everyone to see her ribbon collection gold plastic. Yeah exactly. She's like, look at this, this is etched, has my
name on it. It's magical. So after the gleam of her trophy room wears off and you wander further into the recreated log cabin, then you meet the full open bar that she has arrayed for her guests, and there you could grab a cocktail, all courtesy of Rita Crunwell. And now I like to imagine, you know, one of this Horsey set sitting in that recreated log cabin with her.
Let's say Harrison Ford, all right, and he's like raising a glass talking horses to Rita, and Rita's telling him how good it was this year, and he's telling her how good the whiskey is. And she's like, oh, you like the whiskey. And he's like, yep, oh what am I doing it? You're the celebrity and profession you're the professional. Yeah, okay, would you mind being Harrison Ford for a second. I'm happy to okay, So I'm Rita. So she's like, imagine
the scene. She's like, oh, yeah, I sitting there surrounded by log cabins, people elbow hobnobbin, talking horses and horse trailers or whatever they talk about. She's like more Champagne Harrison Ford.
M hm, hey, but that is me, Harrison Ford, a flying airplane and I eat play though see flawless.
I mean, it's like you're in the log cabin with Rita and Harrison or as I call him, Harry. Now, oh my god, I'm sorry, I have to apologize with I totally forgot to tell you how she's dressed at these events.
Practically practically real close.
So just put a little bit more fur on it and make it like a full white fur coat, like you know, like white, I don't know, snow leopard fur or something exotic, something endangered, and then diamonds and like, I don't know, a tiara.
It's going hard. It's kind of more than I anticipated. I thought she'd be like in TJ Max's Finest.
Oh yeah, no, she's got like the beaded tops or whatever those things are, like the sequins and beads.
I don't know what the lame bryant of it all. I'm just imagining with the beaded tops that instead it's like those beaded seat covers for cab drivers.
Not quite those big like like a wooden.
Macro made top exactly. She's very experimental. She's very fashioned forward.
Like so fashion forward you can't even see her. She's just down the line to hope that she's out there still.
She's just in like a milar suit.
Yeah, it was real. I thought you would appreciate her, like, I see if I can find some pictures and we put them on Instagram. She has a real best in show vibe to her outfits. And I know how you I love that movie go for that. Yeah, kimonos, we just kind of imagine that, but less fun, more crime. I don't know. Also, what is your favorite like middle aged woman's fashion tendency? Like I was trying to think of, like what stores it is that she's probably shopping at.
Stated, That's what I was.
That's only when I could go with and I was like, I don't mean to just pick on the Chico's woman. Is there like another brand that is j Jill j Jill?
Okay, I don't know. I'd have to know her full aesthetic to give it a good assessment. Is she like a is she a department store?
Gal No, no, are you kidding me? No, she is definitely boutique as much as possible. No. I mean occasionally, if she can't get out of Dixon, she may have to, like, you know, get her jeans at the local store. But other than that.
Interesting.
Yeah, Well, there was a woman in the horse scene who knew her very well, and she was talking in a newspaper article. And I found this and I thought, thistle answer Elizabeth question. So she clalked Rita's style to time and I quote, this is about her beaded gowns that you would wear to these events, like at the nighttime formal event at the American quarter Horse Association's World Championship show, and I quote, they're beautiful. I went to
look at a couple of the blouses she wore. The used ones were eighteen hundred dollars a pop, and Rita didn't wear used I thought, gad zeukes the Midwestern jumped out, didn't.
It, dad zoos? So she's like wearing designer duds. Yeah, exactly. Do you think she wore Carl Lagerfeld, Sure, because didn't he eat horse meat?
Oh god, I don't know anything about that.
Making that up is that's true, I make up most of what I say, but I do believe that it's true that Carl Lagerfeld was on like a horse meat diet. It's a lot of French people eat horse meat.
I'm aware of that. They do eat horse meat over there, and I just tried to forget like.
The synergy of her wearing lager films and.
Eating horse meat, Carl.
Horse meat.
Well, I don't know about the horse meat part.
Well, I haven't had. Carl Lagerfeld lost ninety pounds on a diet of tuna and BlackBerry moose.
I'm not hearing horse meat.
Oh yeah, No, it was rumored that Carl Lagerfeld's famous diet involved eating horse meat, tomatoes, and diet.
Coke altogether of Vogue, Thank you Vogue.
A slurry of horse meat, tomatoes and dyke.
Slurry of horse meat. Thank you Vogue for something I'll never forget. And thank you Elizabeth for yet another gross dropping.
A gross up. Oh calf's liver too. In Wild Straw.
Well, I'm glad you asked about Rita and what people thought about her and money.
So speaking of Rita, speaking of Rita.
Crundwell and whether or not she came from money or not. People used to wonder if she'd inherited land from her family, and uh, you know it's true. She actually had inherited a horse farm from her mother. The details may have varied, but the general story was the same. Someone died, she got wealthy, right, That's like the story around the horse world. Now, that was pretty true. A whole ass town was literally dying and she got welcome. So there was the death man,
well shark other everything else. The details a little wrong. Now, when Rita would arrive at a horse show before she would you know, set up her bass Pro shop Lincoln log cabin, before any drinks got poured for any horse loving stars like Lyle love It. Oh wait, I gotta do one more. Would you like some more Champagne Lyle loving?
Hey everybody, it's me Lyle love It. I just stole Temple grand and shirt.
It's amazing. It's like he's just here for a moment, then he disappears.
Yeah, I get I transform.
No, thank you for gracing us with that one. I always liked those.
That one's on the house.
Before Rita would pull on her white fur coat or for you, her white fur bikini and some hot little sequin number to dazzle the horsey crowd. Rita also like to make a big splash in the parking lotch she would like, I don't mean like jumping from a hike, like jumping. She didn't do it that way, not like pushing a watermelon off the top of a building splash. I mean like she wanted people to be like, Oh, it's Rita kind of walk on music pretty much. It was just like the sound of pain and suffering in
her hometown. But drum beat was amazing. No, before she would get there, she would like have like her fleet arrive right. And her fleet consisted of a forty five foot Liberty Coach RV. And in case you're not in the market for RVs, that's one of the nicest ones that you can get. Yeah, so that one is the luxury liner of mobile forty five foot long Liberty Coach RV forty five long, way bigger than like your normal
like a tour bus. Now, this boasted a king sized bed, five satellite TVs, marble countertops, leather wrapped railings, multiple tile floors, multiple tile floors, also a washer and dryer. I don't even have one of those in my apartment. Now, this whole thing costs two million dollars. Two million dollars for an RV.
Great day in the morning.
Do you know how much of Dixon, Illinois you could fix with that RV? No, of course, she didn't handle her horses herself. Now, Rita had professional cowboys for all that she didn't like brush down the maine and tail.
She just would do boys.
So there's the stall, set up the horses, right, So she'd have them mucking out the trailers and all that stuff that she didn't want to do. But those cowboys they weren't cheap either, so she had to have a trailer for them and then have you know, lodging.
For them and so forth. She had a mighty convoy.
Oh yeah, but she was really successful with this because of how much money she was diverting into her horsey funds. In twenty eleven, just before this is right before Rita gets busted. She gets busted in twenty twelve, the year before she gets busted, when she went to the American quarter Horse Association World Championship Show in Oklahoma City.
That's a mouthful, quite She was the bell of the ball that year. She won fifty four prizes at the Oklahoma Any of those money or is it just all a bunch of other.
Yeah, she's wanting some ribbons and some prize money. Yeah, like quarter million dollars kind of prize money.
She was named the leading.
Owner of the American quarter Horse Association that year.
Yeah, she's pouring a bunch of money into the whole thing completely.
Eighth year in a row, she was named Owner of the Year. I'll tell you your hometown's harder, and money goes far if you direct it in one tight funnel. Now, the only thing that her friends and neighbors knew about what Rita was doing down in Oklahoma City came to them from the newspaper articles because they would, like, you know, see like a headline, Oh Rita won again down to Oklahoma City.
We're so proud of her.
So going back to my man Mayor, Big Jim Burke, he was quoted talking about how all this prize money Rita was winning shown by the newspapers. He said, and I quote, we all knew that she had these horses, but you know, there were big write ups about her in the papers, and she's winning all these national championships, and there were stories flying around town that she was selling horses for two hundred and fifty thousand dollars three hundred thousand dollars. So we thought this was what that was,
what was providing her this nice income, a successful horse business. Now, when she was caught by the FBI, Rita, as I told you, was the officially the fifth greatest embezzler of all time. That's how successful her horse business this was. Now she's like the Larry Bird of embezzlement, just this hard worker from the heartland. You know. Now, personally, if I was someone to ask me, like, what do you do for a living, I'm not going to say anything about my real life anymore. I'm going to use the
Rita Crundwell method. I'm gonna start telling people, Oh, all my money it's in walruses. I'm in the walrus business. See if people go for it. I really like this. We'll take a quick break and after this I'll tell you how Rita got busted. Elizabeth. Yes, our girl, Rita Crundwell. I've been telling you about her. I've been telling you about Harrison ford Lyle. Love it, all the fun stuff
she's been doing. But what else was she spending her stolen loot on besides impressing Harrison Ford with expensive whiskeys and champagne scented candles. Good call, good call. No, she was actually buying land.
Well that's smart. Yeah, that's what you.
You know, they aren't making it anymore, as Mark Twain would say, yep. Well, starting in two thousand and six, Rita she made some real estate purchases and she bought an eighty eight acre spread that cost her about half million dollars of her hometown's money. She dubbed her new spread Rita's Ranch. Now, personally, I would have gone with Casa de Rita, but that's just me. I don't know. You know, you had a name like Rita, you can.
Really rude Marta Ritaville.
Yeah, exactly. See already two better names right there. We're not even trying. So it was a complete horse breeding complex, training exercise compound. She even had a whole arena built for her to practice in. Just imagine her riding around the horses with an empty arena, her imagining the crowds cheering her.
She had like a button she pushed in the sound of crowds. Confetti cannons all shaped like butterflies.
Yes, Carrie, I know I threw that one in there from r carries a tour rider. She requests that there be confetti in her dressing room that must be the shape of butterflies. No moth confetti for miss Mimi. Now, as I told you, rita Cronwell salary from the City of Dixon eighty three thousand dollars. So people are willing to believe that this eighty three thousand dollars salary is
being very well invested apparently. Yeah, So while she was a hob nubbing with the rich and famous in her white fur and her diamonds and tr or whatever she was doing, that was her one persona back home, She's still like all of her neighbors. She's wearing the you know, the boots a cow the cowboy, you know, flannels, like she looks like everybody else. And that is pretty much
how she manages her whole criminal enterprise. Nobody looks past the surface of what she looks like as a middle aged woman.
That's at the time. And in a small town, it's a lot of money. Today in a small town, making eighty three thousand dollars is a lot of money.
It's not enough for a two million dollar RV.
No do they not? Does the town know about the two million or ask to park it?
I mean, she comes back to town with this compleet of cars under cover of darkness. She had like full on eighteen wheelers pulling horse trailers. Multiple she had multiple eighteen wheelers in her canoy convoy.
She's probably just telling you know what, I got a great deal. If you go to the back of Tjmax, they have all the cars and trucks, ask for Cheryl'll people don't know. And then if you kind of bump it a little scratch that, you get another twenty percent off.
Where do you think I got this bracelet?
Yeah? Everything is she got a deal.
The US district court that filed the indictment against her, they would not agree that she got great deals because they had actually the itemized list of all of her stuff. And I'll just read you a couple of the highlights. Between nineteen ninety and two thousand and six, she stole about twenty three million dollars. Oh wow, So that's that's when she got started in nineteen ninety two thousand and six.
Twenty three million dollars over that sixteen year period, that gives you an average of about one point four million dollars a year. Right after she got going in two thousand and six, she starts ram printed up and she starts trying to win some of them championships, and world championships are not cheap. So she sat there and wrapped it back up to taking it about five million dollars a year and embezzled money.
What is the town's budget every year?
The town's budget, I'm glad you asked, is nine million dollars roughly. Oh, so she's taking more than half of the town's budget. When she got really going, and those engines were running red hot goodness, and they still weren't noticing it, and you know how she was getting away with it, but she was blaming the state of Illinois. She said that like, oh, they're supposed to pay for this stuff that I charged and I put the money out, but they haven't, so next year we should get the money.
And people believed it because they're like, oh, you know, the state lawmakers are always stealing our money.
Yeah, no one really pays attention to local They'll pay attention when the basketball courts are all checked up, but then they don't know the minute show of no and also he's counting on it.
They like big mayor, Big Jim Burke. Right, he's a local guy. But they don't seem to like the state lawmakers or the governor. Like those people are not trustworthy.
I don't like you read a Crundwell here understand small town values.
Yes, like so, rita Crundwell. She meets fate One day when, unbeknownst to her, while she is away on one of her vacations or in this case, attending a horse show, a piece of mail arrives and it's a bank statement, and it's been basically sent to the wrong place, and it's on her desk, and this replacement for her. This the city clerk who's in her office trying to go through all the paperwork. She sees this one thing, sees it looks like she's on a bank reads it. It's
a bank statement. She doesn't recognize the account, so she takes the account to the mayor. Maryor Jim Burke's like, I don't recognize this. Ask Rita what it is. She's like, no, I think that's the problem.
It looks like this is Rita's account.
Mary's like, oh, I can't be. She's like, no, I think it is.
They look. He's like, oh my goodness, I love this nosey hero.
Yes, I thought you would like her. So her name is Kaitha Swanson.
By the way, well miss Swanson. First of all, I believe there was a whisper network in town. Everybody knew about this. It wasn't a secret. And she didn't just see something on the desk. She went dig in.
I think she took her moment when Rita was out of the office. He's like, what's this, what's that? And went through it all.
Well done investigator.
Special investigator Kata Swanson. So Kaitha and Mayor Jim Burke have their moment together in his office. He's convinced by her to go take this to the FBI. He takes to the FBI. FI is like, oh, yeah, this is not good.
This is not good.
Mayor, Hey, Mayor, we want you don't blow the investigation we're about to start. Don't let anybody know. We need you to keep this under your hat. And he's like, I think I can do that, Like, no, we're serious. This may take some time. It's a small town. Don't tell anybody, not even like your closest friends. He's like, I tell my wife. They're like, okay, if you tell your wife, mayor just nobody else, don't take club. Nobody in American legion needs to know this one. He's like, okay,
Like when can I tell them? When we boss Diard He's like, okay, how long will that be? And then they're like, just let us do our work. Six months later, they come into his office. They're like, we're going to need to talk to Rita. And that's why he's like, oh man, he's all excited. And that was the day that you were standing in the doorway.
I remember it well. Yes.
So what the FBI found was that Rita had basically taken, as I told you, a dummy bank account, but not only that, she'd created multiple bank accounts for the city
that were legitimate. She would bounce the money through those different accounts, then she would create a fake invoice, send the money into that fake invoice account, use the fake invoice account, then to dummy back out to her account, and then she was hiding both the writing of the checks, the bouncing of the books, and where the money was going.
So people were thinking it all looks fine. The amounts seemed to balance out because they didn't notice that she was the one who was, you know, saying you owe me money. You owe me six million dollars or whatever she was saying. So that's how you get a payday for Rita is you know, classic money laundering. You know, jay Z would be proud to her, so after she would withdraw her laundered funds and she'd go and buy
all verus expensive stuff. The thing that was kind of working to her benefit, as I've pointed out a couple of times, is people didn't look past her appearance.
And yet she was very aware of this.
She would put on an appearance for the Oklahoma people, she would come home and take off that and she knew that people wouldn't do anything except for your girl, Katha Swanson Keith, Yeah. Now that is the advantage that con artists have over average people is that they know that a person is usually persuaded more by a good story than by facts. You're KEITHA and you you guys are rare who actually want to see the numbers on paper,
want to investigate, want to get confirmation. Most people are like I heard readA her mother died left or a farm. That's good enough for them.
That's what they have.
And so if you can tell a good story, you can be a good con artist. Do you think, as a former school teacher and a storyteller, that you could be a good con artist?
No?
Why not?
I'd feel really bad at my mark. My victim would have to be a horrible person, and then I would feel bad about it.
That's totally that's the way within the balance. You don't have to only go after the innocent gullible.
But I also have too many tells. I'm not good at lying. Yeah, it becomes real obvious.
Here's how you can get good at lying. This is true for anything. Don't think you're lying if you believe your story. No, I mean, I know this sounds ridiculous, but you'd have to believe that this momentarily is the truth. And if you do that, your body will behave as if it's the truth. If you can just tell yourself, I will momentarily live under these imaginary circumstances. That's how you become a good liar. That's also how you become a good actor. Same things, the exact same. You have
to emotionally convince yourself. You convince yourself. You can convince anything that's true.
I could see that, So I think you could be should I practice start cutting people?
Let's be able to talk about this. You can develop a whole routine for you.
Yeah, I'll sign up for your classes.
But in all honesty, as a teacher, you would you agree that a story is more persuasive than facts.
I think so, well. I don't know, not in my time as a as an instructor, but I would say that as a writer, you know you can. You can get people to believe all sorts of things. You can get them to change what's true to them. So not necessarily facts, but everyone has.
Their own truth, their interpretation.
But yeah, whatever is true to someone, and you can, if you tell a good enough story, you can.
Rearrange the value of the facts totally. Well, that's exactly what Rita did. Now, getting to a couple of the facts that people overlooked that I think would have been somewhat suspicious to me if I were living in Dixon, Illinois. Here's an example of some of the horses that she named. People would see these names in print, like so and so one like Rita Cronwell one with and these are the horses names, right, Okay, we'll play a little game. Four horses. I'm going to name three are real?
Okay.
Number one I'm money too. Number two I found a penny. Number three good, I will be number four Dixon Illinois can suck it.
Oh, I don't know. What do you think is not the real horse name the penny? No Dixon, No, it's good, I will be.
No, I'm hitting him.
Illinois.
But all of her horse names are about money or be like trickery. And people are like, yeah, that's just let's your inch risks.
No, good old Rita well right under their noses. Yeah.
Well, when the US Marshalls showed up, they had to collect all the ill gotten gains Rita had gotten over the decades she'd been fleecing everyone in town. They showed up and they find four hundred horses that they now have to move.
Four hundred, four hundred horse.
Remember some of these horses are worth two hundred and fifty thousand dollars apiece.
Wow, exactly. So the DJ is like, oh man, what are we gonna do?
They called up, I don't know, the cowboy US Marshals and they started like putting them in trailers and wrangling them up and going off.
She had them like a horse infestation. Dude.
They had to have a whole auction for all of her stuff, and then a large part of the stuff was hers her family bought back for her with what money? Yeah, exactly. So here's the list of some of the stuff that the DOJ took from her. Two single family homes in Dixon. A single family home in Inglewood, Florida. A horse farm in Dixon. The custom Liberty Coach motor home. They worth two million dollars. The Featherlight trailer also worth about a
quarter million dollars. That's for pulling horses and so forth. A bunch of Chevy Silverado trucks because at least she knew good value. Some GMC trucks, but really those should have been dodges because they were cowboys, because that's what cowboys and cowgirls drive.
But whatever.
A Kenworth tractor truck, which was worth about two hundred grand. A freight liner truck these are the eighteen wheelers that are pulling the trailers, also worth two hundred grand. A Ford Thunderbird, a classic sixty seven Chevy Corvette once again nose class. And lastly a bunch of John deer utility vehicles, tractors and riding moment nothing rides like a deer, nothing at all. Then that's just the homes in vehicles. So
imagine everything else. You got all the horse stuff, and the machinis for bikinis, and the various sent in candles find Corinthian leather bound books exactly. So on April seventeenth, twenty twelve, at the time of her arrest, in her bank account, she had one hundred and ninety one thousand, three hundred and seventy five dollars and seventy five cents. Because you know, it's also good at math, the doj and they made sure to get every penny.
So this was twenty twelve. When did she start eighty three eighty two.
She starts scamming in nineteen ninety. Okay, she gets the job in eighty three. Ticks are about seven years to cook the books. In that nineteen ninety she gets going and then for six a long run exactly. So the city of Dixon meanwhile left holding an empty bag. Yes exactly, They're like, what are we gonna do? Now?
I told you they had like basically lost all this stuff.
The cops couldn't get radar guns, the kids couldn't have basketball uniforms.
Were out there with hair dryers.
Yeah, just pretending that they have, Like, don't look too close the year agoing forty eight thirty five. Now they did all that obviously, so Rita can have her little my little pony collectionist show horses and like, you gotta love at least I don't know. I don't love is the wrong word. But there was a Netflix documentary on her story that was made. If you'd like to see more about the Rita Cronwell story, check out the documentary.
But the director, Kelly Richmond Pope, who is a DePaul University accounting professor by day and a documentary filmmaker by night, said, and I quote, I feel like she had the last laugh.
She won.
She lived like a queen for twenty plus years and only served eight years. You do the math of won. So what do you put in the quote? Is that she after she's convicted, she does eight years in prison, federal prison. Her family buys up most of the property when he goes to auction, so she spends eight years. That's her price for all that she got away with. So this guy is saying, oh, eight years would be worth all of that. She's the winner. What's your thought?
No, she's not. Because of it the fact that even if she was never caught, she didn't win. Yes, because that's the grossest behavior to take from the people around you who've supported you. Gave her a job at a time, like you know, at that time to be in a small town, to be the treasurer at the city of the town or as a woman, yeah, that role. Yeah, and she obviously everyone supported her growing up. And then she turns around and gives them the big two fingers
to the sky and it's like, I'm taking all your stuff. Yeah, is this not winning?
I'm with you. I do the methold differently than old Kelly Richmond Pope. I just see her, as I said before, she's basically a one woman version of colonization.
She's just like I can if I can lift it, I'm taking it. It's just it's so gross. It is absolutely gross. What she did.
I mean, stealing half of more than half of your town's annual budget. Yeah, okay, let's just put this in perspective. Let's say I stole half of the money from your family's budget. And I did that every year, year after year for six years. And I did this to fund my seahorse habit all right, and eventually I get busted by the FBI. Do you think if someone came along and said, that man, he's winning, would you be like, yeah, that's right, brother, that brother's look at that old folk
hero there. No, they wouldn't because I don't look like Rita Crondwell at my point, so the only reason a fur bikini right now? Well, yeah, and we had sequence, but that's not Rita's. That's that's where Rid and I overlap. Okay, But the basically the idea is that here you have this middle aged white woman in rural America, and everybody would assume that she could be a criminal on the level of like some Walter White breaking bad level of like you know.
That's why we have to assume that everyone is a criminal. Exactly solves that problem. I mean, that's essentially My point is. Look, look, you need to be both skeptical and optimistic and do both yea at the same time, and that's hard, it's exhausting.
The answer is always the same, don't believe the hype.
That's true.
So what's our ridiculous takeaway.
Elizabeth, ridiculous takeaway is that I really wish that they would have caught onto her earlier, because now I'm just like dwelling on the fact that the roads were all messed up and kids didn't have like parks to play in because she wanted to go ride a horse somewhere. Now she wasn't even riding these horses.
No, she's winning, She's.
Just parading them around. Oh, she's disgusting.
I also noticed she didn't need a weapon to rob anyone, She just needed a pat And we always had to forget that when these white collar crimes do far more damage to a community than someone's sticking up the corner store, but they don't get punished. And I'm not suggesting that we need to punish people, but we need to consider the actual effect and impact of crimes as opposed to how they make us feel.
You know what the heroic quality was here, Nosiness. Yes, I thought you'd like that.
I knew Kaithus wantson was like your people to a Yeah, well, you know, as you know about me, Elizabeth, I would love to own a horse ranch. I love horses. I would just pretty much do anything to have a horse ranch on my own, except for stealing all of the money I can from my hometown. That is the Zaron Burnett guarantee. I like that, so thanks for joining us. I'm Zaron Burnette. And over there in the white fur and diamonds is Elizabeth Dutty. You can find us online
at Ridiculous Crime, about, Twitter, and Instagram. Got a tip for us about a ridiculous crime you like to hear about. You want to confess to a ridiculous crime, email us at Ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com. Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and Zaren Burnett, produced and edited by Harrison Ford's horse trainer, Dave Houston. Research is by the President of the three quarter and seven Eighths Horse Association,
Briissa Brown. Our theme song is by part time mayor Thomas Lee and our resident lyele Love It look Alike, Travis Dutton, Executive Producer, a Ben the Horse Breeder to the Stars Bowling and Noel Don't you dare Call me a Comptroller Brown.
Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio. Four more podcasts from my Heart Radio visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,