Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio.
Elizabeth Dutton Zaren Burnette.
So good to see you, really good to see you.
I've been good. That's great. I got a question for you. Do you know it's ridiculous?
Oh heavens, do I listen? Valentine's Day is ridiculous? Oh don't you think?
Yeah?
I think it's like a garbage day.
What is even the story of that one? Really? Saint Valentine like shot someone in the heart with an arrow and we all celebrate. What is the real story?
Did you know he's the patron saint of lovers?
Yes? I did know that, Eliabeth, I did. Okay, Epleptics, No, I did not know that one. And Beekeepers I did not know that one either. Right.
But see that's I'm saying Valentine's date. But we're not here for Saint Valentine. We're just gonna go somewhere different with Valentine's state. Okay, we got a hot tip from Instagram friend Sophia Techno.
Okay, thank you Sophia tech.
Now, oh she's the best. She passed along, are they? I don't know. Sophia Techno passed along a really terrifying company. It's called manly Man. Manly Man. Yeah, they're tough. It said his love language, cured meat God. So basically it's a beef jerky company.
I like that just as an adjective. This is a beef jerky company. It's like it's Mickey Mouse. It's beef jerky.
So they sell jerked beef and they have meat hearts, which are like you know those candy hearts.
I know it. Beef hearts aren't.
Well, it's me meat hearts and they're heart shaped and it says stuff like XO XO love. Some say beefmine Hello the hearts.
Yeah, but there's there's jerky, but it's meat yeah, looks oh god.
So some of them say you plus me, meet me, okay, but then there's naughty hearts.
They meet me was not naughty meat hearts? What's the noughty? Can you give me an example?
I'm trying to look, and it's like they won't show pictures of the naughty. Oh wait, it says hot, wild, spicy, eat me sexy, and then a devil emoji. Anyway, So they have all these Valentine's Day gifts for men because most men apparently only eat meat and not chocolate. They sell beef jerky flowers, so you can do a bouquet of beef jerky.
Flowers edible arrangement essentially quote.
Most of our manly gift sets are available in three different versions, gift boxes, ammo can gift baskets and tactical Christmas stocking kits. EAT are based on different themes and include products both curated through a thoughtful selection process and custom designed at our headquarters located in sunny southern California. This is so Orange County. I can't take it. There's a bloody Mary gift set, bacon scented gift wrapping paper.
This is edible greeting cards like they write on beef jerky. Oh, and the whole thing is just like fragile, toxic masculinity. But aside from that, Zaren, maybe if you're good, Saint Valentine will give you some beef.
He'll meet me something.
Will yeah, spicy anyway, sorry about that. I'm just going that was a long daddy.
Yeah, that was ridiculous though, Thank you, Elizabeth. I know as a California native.
Yes, you know, I love to talk about that. I'm like the Anthony Kias over here.
We're going to test that today. You know that Ronald Reagan was once the governor of this great state? Oh man, yes, but you may not know this next one. Did you know that when Ronald Reagan was sworn in as governor of California in nineteen sixty seven, Yes, he scheduled his inauguration to occur exactly at twelve ten am.
What like, right after midnight?
Why would Ronnie Reagan want to become governor at exactly ten past midnight? I don't know, great question, Elizabeth. Well, because at that precise moment, Jupiter would be at its zenith.
Wait are you kidding me?
And as any good occultists can tell you, Jupiter is the symbol for kings. But not only that, Elizabeth, Jupiter is also the zodiacal symbol for fame and prosperity, all things governors desire.
And boys go to Jupiter to get stupider. Exactly midnight, it was Wait, that's what he inaugurated? What?
Yes, this is all true story. If you asked the newly elected governor's executive secretary that night, he would have told you, as he told reporters at the time, Governor Reagan quote is not guided by the stars, nor do we intend to have stargazers in the administration. He was lying they had stargazers in the administration anyway. But if you asked the newly elected governor's wife, she would have told you, oh that that was my idea, because Ronnie
and I are we're down with the mysticism. Not a direct quote, but that woman, of course was Nancy.
Reagan and nance Okay.
Get ready for a wild one.
Oh boy, this is Ridiculous Crime a podcast about absurd and outrageous capers, heists and cons It's always ninety nine percent murder free and one hundred percent ridiculous.
Sure, Nancy Reagan, Yeah, all right. Now, these days you see her get mentioned from time to time on social media, usually for what she did as a First Lady of the United States. Either you know about like the just Say No drug wearing his campaign, she did sit on lap she did for a Christmas photo. Very yeah, he puts he was a Santa and she was I think miss Elf. She was an elf.
Yeah.
Anyway, these days you'll read also read online about how apparently, back in her Hollywood days, the former First Lady was rumored to be quite a crowd pleaser, Elizabeth. Yeah, and not just says an act, more of a people pleaser.
One might say, yeah, a little bit saucy.
She liked a party.
Yeah, in like risk ways.
She was a goat.
Yes, I am. I have a relative who was sort of in the circles Pasadena kind of like.
Yeah, that whole like wild like uh, astronomers in Hollywood, people getting into sex parties them.
Yeah, she knew the Reagans. I mean, this isn't like a contemporary of mine. It's she's long deceased, but like she's amazing, sounds amazing, And she knew them, and she's always like, they're freaks. They are freaky deaky. Now I'm like ten, being like tell me, tell me everything, and she's like they are one for No, she didn't tell me.
She told them all, Oh okay, you're just like listening around the corner. Yeah, I'm like, what, what's a freak? You're looking up freaks? You just shut down, you're more confused.
She got down with a lot of fellas.
Yes, Nancy, yeah, not your no, no, no, no, no, of course, Now, Elizabeth. The thing to know about Nancy Reagan is she was always crazy cunning, a true operator, as this story will in particular go to show, she was also the real power behind the throne. Right, that's not a lot of people know that. It's not a big secret, but we'll get into that anyway. To keep them hold that power for her and Ronnie, Nancy relied on a cadre of psychics and astrologers. In fact, Nancy Reagan let astrologers decide
American foreign policy. Amazing, Yeah, because that same policy that her husband as the president would then make real because he listened to her and she listened.
To the astrology, and then everyone listens to him.
Yeah, we'll get into all that, but first, let's go back in time. You're gonna go, yeah, do you want to do a Huey Lewis Esse.
Do you know my first concert that I ever saw was Huey Lewis State Fair Calexville's amazing, He's incredible.
Oh my god, Yes, could you give us a little Huey Lewis Sands the News?
UHM, gonna go back.
Well, Huey Lewis Sands the News Right, Well, I was just you know, calling him up for the eighties of it all. They're back in time. But anyway, Ronald Reagan, what was that all about? Right? Who knows you remember how they called each other mommy and daddy? Yes, right, that's kind of what you're saying with the freaky right. I always thought that was eerie. Anyway, I'm going to do that.
I'm gonna call everybody Mommy, Andy, just anybody.
I think it's cool. Like I like you. You earned it. I saw you've been across the bar Mommy and Daddy.
Continue Mommy, okay.
Anyway. The year's nineteen forty seven. Ronald Reagan's movie career has been sidelined by World War Two. The star of New Rockney All American aka Win One for the Gipper, right, that guy? That was his biggest hit, by the way, but that was back in nineteen forty, so now he's seven years past that. He's not been getting parts after the war. In total, I don't know if you know this, Reagan was in fifty three films really. His last film was The Killers. Anyways, At this point is stalling, Reagan
decides I'm gonna run for office. He's elected to be the president of SAG YEP Screen Actors Guild March tenth, nineteen forty seven. Now in April, he's interviewed by the FBI and he supplies the agents with a list of suspected communists and Communist sympathizers in Hollywood. Right now, here's a little Tinseltown history for you, Elizabeth. The Hollywood Blacklist was created under Reagan's presidency of SAG. Yeah, in October of that same year, forty seven. He had known commed
hater Walt Disney. They like tag team together, and they went to Washington and appeared before the House un American Activities Committee, which were the first They were the first witnesses in the hearings that would eventually give us the Hollywood Blacklist and the Red Scare.
And destroy careers of geniuses.
But yeah, completely, and when it was Reagan's turn, he sang like a bird. Reagan took their stand. He named names, and I mean he was like a phone book just spitting out names.
Right.
He was like he named friends, co workers on film sets, anyone he suspected being likely communists.
Right, Yeah, Like that's the thing is that it was just even if he had a whiff, it's not like he suspected the actual party.
They don't have like a picture of their card you know, it's like, oh, he's a card carrying communist. No, it's just like he.
Smokes clothes, cigarettes and suspicious.
He likes too many German expressionist films. I think he's a communist Anyway, big moment in the beginning of the wave would be called Red Scare. Okay, Reagan plays his part. This turn by the Reagan into becoming an anti commi witch hunter. This caused tensions with his wife at the time, actress Jane Wyman, and the two prepaired divorced. Now, this was about when Ronald Reagan made his big switch from being a Democrat who had backed Truman in forty eight
and once called Roosevelt a true hero. Right, he becomes an Eisenhower Republican in fifty two. Yeah, just switch a road. Now, there was another big change in his life around this same time. Well, Reagan was president of SAG. This young actress came calling upon him. Right, the year was nineteen forty nine. The actress was named Nancy Davis. Can you guess why Nancy Davis first came into Ronald's office that day when he was SAG president?
Like you, Susponso.
Is the chimp in the office. Excuse she was worried about her name appearing on a list of communist sympathizers. Oh, but it's not what you would suspect, Elizabeth. It turns out the suspected comedy was a different Nancy Davis, and she's like, I don't want that girl getting my career all messed up.
She's like, let's change my name by you marrying me.
Exactly simplified things now, just as sure as Quentin Tarantina Love's feet. Nancy Reagan was no comy, right, but she was single and the two hit it off. Nancy was twenty eight, Ronnie was thirty eight, and then, obviously, she married Ronnie. She becomes Nancy Reagan now. According to her biographer, Nancy had been scheming for months about how she get into Ronnie's pants. Right. She finessed it so she felt she had to now lock it down and make him
put a ring on it. Nancy's plan work breage brilliantly he did, and she had more plans, many many more plans for him. Right now, let's get forward again. This year is now nineteen fifty three. For it, we've gone four years forward. Right. The name Reagan is now practically mud in Hollywood. He's not only not getting parts of Reagan. At this point, the name Reagan wouldn't even get you like a a table to Brown Derby. Right, he's just like falling off. Ronald Reagan was on his way to
officially becoming a has been B movie actors right. Right by this point, he's making mostly forgettable westerns. He's already made his classic man in a Chimp movie, Bedtime for Bonzo. That's in the past. Right at this point, he's he's making B movies with the titles like quote, She's working her way through college.
That was the name of the movie.
That was the name of the title. Trust me, that title makes the flick sound far more interesting than it was.
It's like, legitimately just like a cinema verite, a lady.
Working her way through college. Anyway, year nineteen fifty three, Eisenhower's president. We're in a very staid time in America. Reagan is forty two years old, and he's looking around for what's he gonna do. You know, if big time, like lasting Hollywood fame was gonna happen, it would have happened by now. He knows that ship is saled, so he's willing to face the writing on the wall. He has to come up with a new Reagan. Reagan, also, mind you, was deeply in debt. He's got a Malibu
ranch cost him eighty five thousand dollars. He's got another eighteen grand and assorted debts all told, that's one hundred and three thousand dollars. I know you like the translation, give it to me one point two million in twenty twenty four dollars.
That's not good.
Yeah, so he's one point two million in debt.
Yeah, but like, imagine what a Malibu ranch. What does the Malibu ranch go for today?
Oh?
Sure, yeah, it's like fifty million dollar proper.
It would be ridiculous. Yeah, you know he got in early. He got in good.
Yeah.
Anyway, the dude also has responsibilities. His divorce from Jane Wyman's left him paying five hundred month in child support. He's got a new baby with his wife Nancy. Oh yeah, I remember, as I said, he's not getting cast much. So Reagan's income is basically coming from whatever roles he can get from one off appearances on TV shows or personal appearances for corporations like he's doing as he's doing trade shows ads like conventions. Right, So Reagan's talent agency
is still a big time agency. It's MCA Lou Wasserman's old place. His agents tell Reagan they got a new gig for him right now. It would be a show Well, it's in a show room, right, and then it's in the newly made pleasure Oasis in the desert Las Vegas. They're looking to bring in like, you know, Hollywood types, recognizable faces from TV to impress the tourists and make them, you know, give a little touch of glamour Hollywood. Who, right,
come on, what do you think Reagan? Regan's I don't know, is there maybe he kind of thinking about it, know what he wants to do now. They thought Reagan would just do absolutely fine as a touch of Hollywood, because that's basically what his career is, a touch of Hollywood. Now. He is recognizable, but he's not a big star. People know him. So his agents they know he needs the money. So they're like, Regan, come on, let's take it. He's like,
I don't know, he's not the ideal career move right. Yeah, it's nineteen fifty three. Vegas at this point is still the sticks.
Oh yeah, totally.
He's making Vegas into what we know. It's not even like, you know Sinatra at nineteen sixty Yeah, nobody exactly right.
So this is like when Fremont Street was completely downtown?
Is the scene? Right? So the Frontier, the casino, The Frontier offered Reagan a bunch of money to come out there because they know he didn't want to come, so they gave him thirty thousand dollars for two weeks.
In their show in the in those days, that's three.
Hundred and forty two thousand dollars in twenty twenty four money for two weeks work for Ronald Reagan. He's like, Reagan's like, let me think about it.
Are you kidding me?
He's like, let me think about He goes on to Nancy.
They discussed, Oh, I can imagine she's right.
She's like, she's not totally into it, but she likes the numbers, like that was a big number, all right. So they decided they need to follow the advice of someone they can trust to help them make these decisions. So they turned to Hollywood astrologer Carol Wrider. Oh boy, Now, at the time, he had an astrology column in the La Times. So the Reagans they flipped through the La Times and they found Carol Writer's zodiac breakdown. His horoscope on the day for Reagan's horoscope was this is a
day to listen to the advice of experts. So He's like, my agents are experts. I'm taking the job. So Reagan says, yes, Wow, you listened to his agent MCA and the.
Horoscope toty three thousand.
Exactly. Now, that one choice, it was not made by him, radically changed his fortunes and the future of America. Two years later, Reagan gets a new gig hosting the General Electric Theater, which is on TV for the next decade. Is that consistent fame to basically plan his next move a political career. Soon enough, Reagan's elected the governor of California, and both Ronnie and Nancy credited the zodiac and the newspaper Psychic for guiding their fate. Exactly. That's when he
took power as governor. There was that whole Jupiter is ascending an event because now they're locked into this lifestyle. Okay, now that we laid down our star crossed foundation, Elizabeth, let's take a break and when we get back I'll tell you all about the psychic that shadow ran the Reagan White House. And we're back Elizabeth.
Hey, how are you all right?
So we're talking mommy and Daddy, Yes, Ronnie and Nancy.
Yes. Father.
It's like a really different Nancy's story. Okay. Over the years, after he had guided.
Them, imagining her like all smeared like coal eyeliners, blood hair, like what do you.
Call baby pin through the nose to Okay, Ever, the years, uh, what's his name? Carol Writer? Right, he'd been guiding them from his newspaper column, and Nancy Reagan eventually initiates a close personal relationship with this Hollywood astrologer to the stars Carol Writer. And by the way, this guy is a flamboyantly gay man, Okay, like just flamboyant as flamboyant can be. And somehow this didn't bother the wagons back then when they needed his help. I guess it was like Hollywood hairdressers.
He's playing roles for.
Men to be gay if they could, you know, style your hair to divine the stars.
And in that situation, and I think it carries out in some communities to this day that if you have like if you play a certain role, like you're saying a hairdresser or an astrologer.
What did they prescribe for it?
But you have to be you can be flamboyant, but they have to be kind of sexless. Definitely say yes, I don't want to you know, they don't want to see them like in a relationship or living their life. It's really weird. Yeah, I know what you mean with that whole scene.
So that seen they were cool with it. Then apparently anyway, Nancy Reagan, what was that all about? What she like? Okay, Nancy Reagan back when she was Nancy Davis was a total trooper, and I mean like an actress, like she was showfolk, the daughter of show folks. Oh really yeah, her mother was an actress and her mother helped her secure a future in Hollywood. So Nancy Reagan, you know, she took care of the rest. She was always a shrewd personality. And but she and Ronnie they were, as
I said, a peculiar couple. And as you know, those close to them they say that they as you pointed out, and they're kind of freaky. They adored each other in more white terms, right, I told you they call each other mommy and daddy. But they were also apparently super horny for each other, like when they were always down for PDA, like the heavy petting in the Oval office. Years later, like when they're like, you know, kind of
wrinkled and old. The White House Doctor said quote, I feel like I was a kid watching a sister necking on the couch with her boyfriend. Oh my god, you're welcome for that visual.
I'm like shuddering. But I'm also kind of like proud of them.
Yeah, call him super prouder. I might get it, you know, like I want him like lick smacking each other.
Yeah, they're just like they She takes some beef jerky in her mouth and she leans over and he receives it.
Yes, so sweet, and then like as that to the jelly beans in his mouth already she like bird fed to him.
She chews up the jelly bellies and choose them.
Yeah, yeah exactly. They're still warm but half cheered. He likes to suck out anyway. Are you trying?
It can't happen?
We all rad it, Carol writer, what's up with that guy? Why did the Reagans love him so much? Great question?
I learn more about him.
Now, as I said, dude was a newspaper astrologer, but he was also a personal fortune teller of fabulous psychic to the stars. He'd first been recognized as a boy having psychic powers by a renowned astrologer named Evangeline Adams, who we should do a story about it. Anyway. She was a curious one. It was illegal for her to be like a psychic and astrologer in New York at the time. This is the Madam x era of like
the nineteen twenties. She was like writing astrology books. The ghost writer for her books on astrology was a young Aleister Crowley. No, yeah, she was about about it.
Well, you know what's weird again, We've done this for a few weeks in a row now and I'm not sure how this is happening. I'm talking about a Hollywood psychic really yeah.
On Thursday, so we don't tell each other our stars.
Its like keeps happening of like compendium. I'm sorry, this is just I'm kind of I can't process this. This is really weird. It's in the stars totally.
We're in sync, I guess, yeah, like college roommates.
Like we were now in the band in sink.
Exactly now, as I said Carol Ryder, when he was fourteen, the famous astrologer of Angeline Adams, she told him you have great powers, right, and he he's like, oh you think so he doesn't listen to her. He's like, that's cool, that's neat. But he was like, you know, like I would have run away and joined the circus, right. He was like, no, I'm going to go become a.
Lawyer, so I want powers. I want psychic powers.
Totally.
That'd be down right, totally want that.
He went the other way. We kind of denied him. He went to U Penn. He gets a law degree, he gets a job as a lawyer in a big Philadelphia firm, and then he finds he hated it. He's like, this is hello, Oh not for Carol Ryder. So he did what you would counsel a little to do, Elizabeth.
He quit nice.
Yes, he threw up his deuces and walked down.
I love quitting jobs.
He would have made you feel real proud with this, because next he started feeding the poor. That was his mission was. It was the Great Depression at this point in early nineteen thirties, and there was plenty of hungry mouths to feet and he's like, I used to be a lawyer. I got a little coin in my pocket. And so he goes around feeding the homeless and the forgotten. So around this time, this is when Carol decides he's going to get into astrology full stop. Right, he starts
reading people's horoscopes. He embraces his powers, but soon, since it is the Great Depression, he mostly starts to get in, focusing on helping forgotten men get jobs. Oh wow, right, he's not even like over there like enriching his pocket. He's like, I can get you a job. Go down to and he puts his fingers to his head and he's like the stockyards and talk to a man named Larry or whatever.
Right, there's a man there with a mustache.
Yeah, so big walrus mustache. Tell him you're from Brooklyn, so out of nowhere. He receives this crazy news from his doctor. Right, he has a pain in his back that won't go away, so he visits a doctor. The doctor tells him he has six months to live, and he's like, I did not see this coming. What kind of powers are these? Anyway, Carol writer freaks out, but rather than give in to despair. What does he do? He decides, uh, I know what to do. I'm gonna
read my own horoscope. So he goes to see he is a doctor, right, and the stars inform him that he just needs to relocate, and he's like, I knew it. So he goes west.
What was it like a parasitic twin.
That's your guests, the parasitic.
Anytime anyone's like my back hurts, I'm like you probably twin.
That sounds like parasitic twin.
Got a calcified parasitic twin in there.
You got like your little baby brother inside you. He's all he's all bone now. Anyway, he goes out there and he finds quote physical protection in the Southwest, just like the stars in his horoscope had told him.
Did he go to Sedona?
No, he went to La. Oh yeah, he ignored his doctor, listened to the stars, moves out to La.
You know what, that's what you gotta do. Sometimes.
He arrives just in time for the Golden age of Hollywood. It's such a good time in the great era of studios and Darlot's and like, I don't know, party scenes. It was great for Carol writer. Somebody who's fabulous and looking to be fabulous for money, right, So the studio bosses and the Hollywood power brokers and a lot of the actors, the actresses, they're big believers in the occult. They love this stuff. So they love you know, they love stars out there, Elizabeth.
Yeah.
Yeah, So the Carol writer, he finds a happy home in Hollywood. He works his way into the Hollywood crowd. His big debut as an astrologer to the stars took place at Charlie Chaplin's house. He goes to a Charlie Chaplin party and just starts reading people's cards and stuff, and they're like, this guy's amazing, and everyone's like super into it. Anyway, from then on, he's got all the Hollywood glitterati around him. They all eager for him to come to their parties or for them to go to his.
So he has I'm talking stars like Clark Gable, Tyrone Power, Marlene Dietrich, Betty Grabil, Hetty.
Lamar personal amazing.
Oh yeah, I total a friend of the show, Hetty Lamar, great girl, Greg Gal, I love her. Anyway, Apparently this guy, he threw incredible parties. As I said, Soares really so imagine, like, well, you don't have to imagine. I found one account of one of his parties, the Reagan biographer Kitty Kelly. She recorded the details of a Carol Ryder party at his Hollywood Hills home, and I quote fish were swimming around
in his pool. For the Pisces party, he rented a live lion for my Leo party, and he lined up sets of twins for the Gemini party. He served astrologically appropriate food such as meat and potatoes for moon children, lemon pie for the tart tastes of aries people, and hot red peppers for passionate scorpios.
Oh, I want his life. I want psychic powers, which would be amazing. Seriously, I would love.
That wanding around in a I want to wear a momoo.
And throw lavish parties. Guy, I love lavish parties them. I like throwing and to go back in time and live in that time in Los Angeles.
Oh yeah, totally. It's a good time, very simple in some areas.
I'd just like to imagine what it looks like pre development, very burgeoning development of things. Well, you know, there's slice and Ladies open black dalliole Oh.
Nancy Reagan, she was a Carol Writer superfan. Right, so she attended his weekly Tuesday night astrology class. Yes, their relationship blossomed into a full on like Fengali deal.
Right.
Okay, he was the Reagans like therapist, their marriage counselor their love coach, their life coach, their everything. Right, So, following his advice, he coached them right into the California Governor's mansion in nineteen sixty seven. He's amazing and this was noted by others. This wasn't like a big secret because Time magazine took note, because two years later they put him on the cover of Time magazine and announced it with the headline Astrology and the New Cult of the Occult.
Wow.
Yeah, like they were about about it. So the article mentioned how writer, no longer young, had still attended to as many personal clients as Time article noted, quote, the phone rings constantly and writer spends much of his time in a soft voiced swivet of ooh, moonchild, I'm happy to tell you that this is a very good day for you. So that's what he was doing towards, you know, his golden years. Right after this same man was able
to guide the Reagans to power. Once the couple were in the governor's mansion, you can imagine how the Republican staff reacted to this life. They got there right, but they had to swallow whatever they thought, because, as the campaign consultant Stu Spencer.
Noted, yes, I know that.
Yeah, you know that. The Nancy warned folks like him that quote. She was going to be the bad guy. Oh yeah. She came in Darth Vader style, like he's the Emperor. I'm Darth Vader. Fear me.
There is a listener of ours. I think what's her name, fran I think I remember because she said she was a second generation California and I'm going to want up for being a fifth anyway. So she recommended a book called The Last Days of the Late Great State of California. Oh okay, yes, and it has become one of my favorite books ever.
Yes I am, then I have to check that out.
Eternal debt to her. But one of the so like, the first chapter of the book is fiction. It's about like an earthquake in California, the ocean. Last chapter fiction. The middle part of it is all just like true account of California through these years. It's like it came out like sixty seven. The book interesting, and so they talk about all the consultants, the political consultants who get Reagan to where he he is, and so you know, how do you get him in the governorship and the
manipulations of that. Yes, it's insane. It was he just created a candidate exactly.
He was like very much like if you want to say Kennedy was the first TV candidate, Reagan was the first, like you know, like focus group. So anyway, this is how his Republican staff learned to look past the gay astrologer who was informing Nancy and Ronald's decision making and guiding them to power.
I'm trying to imagine like all these stiff suits, yes, exactly, just like sixty six, right, we got.
Power you sixty seven, sixty six, sixty seven detectics. Sixty six was the election year, sixty seventy takes power. So this sort of management, though, wasn't a huge problem for when Reagan was governor of California, but it would become a problem for them once he considered running for president.
Yeah, you can get away with a lot out here.
Yeah, it's a land of Jerry Brown shaking earth.
I think it is just amazing. Love him. One of the greatest governors we ever had.
Called Governor Moonbeam himself.
Well that's do you know why they call him governor Moonbeam. No, why you'd think it was because it was all crystals and what I.
Assume that he meditates at night under the moon to beams.
It's my understanding that he got called governor Moonbeam because he wanted to have satellite connections to basically have like early Zoom, like has oh wow, phone calls for meetings so that you're not traveling all over the state and use technology to your benefit. And they were talking about satellite. So he wants to be moon That's what I've been told.
Interesting, well, when Reagan was governor of California, it wasn't a problem to maintain all this like back channel with the occult. Right. But now once he's going to become president, this is going to be an issue. Right, But first decide to even run for president, they have to go and consult with the occult. Right, So of the Reagan's
they turned to their life coach and personal astrologer. And you know, rather than me just talk about it, I'd like to take you there Elizabeth, the fateful decision of whether or not Ronald Reagan should run for president. Wait, Elizabeth, I'd like you to close your.
Eyes as close and picture it.
It's early in the year in the bis Entennaial of America nineteen seventy six, and everyone seems to be in a patriotic mood, well most everyone. At the moment. You are at a sprawling estate in the Hollywood Hills. The house is a pillared, beauty, classical, well appointed. It's the kind of house that has a nickname. The owner calls it Harmony House. Once a month he hosts fabulous zodiac themed parties for the Hollywood elite to come and act
out their eyes wide shut fantasies. Elizabeth, you are the dog groomer for the astrologer to the Stars, Carrol Ryder. Yeah, and you're currently using scissors and combs to shape the fur puffs of a pair of French poodles. The one you're currently trimming is thankfully willing to stand poised and proud as you snip away across the great room, seated on a seventeenth century chair, working on an an ornate desk covered in framed photos of classic stars like Joan
Fontaine and Grace Kelly, Princess of Monaco. Is Carol Writer wearing a silk smoking jacket. He's working at an old royal typewriter, working on his astrology column. The quietude is interrupted by a loud, gonging sound. That's the doorbell to Harmony House. You hear a butler greet the visitor, and then from their approaching footsteps you can hear what sounds like a woman drawing near her high heels are staccato
against the marble tile floor. The butler and a woman wearing a kerchief and sunglasses, clearly meant to avoid being seen, enters the great room. The butler announces her, Nancy Davis, to see you, mister Ryder. You look up from the French poodle and you nearly spit out your big red cinnamon gum because you see, despite her kerchief and sunglasses, that's the first lady at California and you do not like her. Her husband put a number of your friends
in San Francisco behind bars for minor possession charges. What is she doing here? You give a look to Carol Rider to see if you should leave, but with a graceful hand he suggests you stay and finish grooming his French poodles. The woman Nancy Davis aka Nancy Reagan greets the astrologer Carol Rider. They air kiss and exchange pleasantries. You look away and keep your scissors busy cleaning up puffs of poodle. Nancy Reagan and Carol Rder huddle at
his desk. You're trying not to listen to their hush tones, but then Nancy gets a little heated and says, rather loudly, should Ronnie run for president? You're hoping the stars are not aligned, but you can't help it. As you listen to Carol Writer read Nancy and Ronnie's star charts. After a moment of study of the stars, Carol Writer tells Nancy the timing isn't right. Nancy does not want to hear this. She barks back, why must we wait? Why can't we go now?
Why?
Why? Why? This is a direct quote, You think to yourself, She's like an angry little girl. Carol Writer smooths down the lapel of his silk smoking jacket, thinks a moment you wait to hear his reply. Carol Writer tells Nancy the stars impel. They don't compel. What you make of your life depends on you. This is not unique advice. This is actually the disclaimer he adds to his astrology column in the La Times. You have to fight back
a laugh, but you no longer want to laugh. As for the next hour, you have to listen as you groom the two French poodles. Nancy Reagan beg plead, badger, browbeat and guilty astrologer to telling her what she wants to hear. You admire how he stays firm and grace will and unflappable. Finally, he tells Nancy Reagan that she needs to go, to leave and to think deeply about what the stars are telling her. She agrees to go, but she'll contact him soon. Her high heels walk back
to the front door, led by the butler. You hear the click clack recede into the distance. The front door opens closes. That's when Carol Ryder finally lets out the deeply annoyed sigh he's been holding in, and he loudly exclaims that woman, she wears me out. You can't help it. You laugh, and he laughs, and the two of you share a laugh at Nancy Reagan's thirstiness.
No, two things. Yes, one, I want to live in that picture. It's amazing. I want that too.
Yes.
Why did she think she could browbeat him to change the stars?
I do not get You go to somebody to tell you what the stars say and you yell at the sky. Yeah, you gotta just listen. That's what you're going to them for. Otherwise you can just tell yourself whatever, Why do you need them involved?
And it is what it is.
It's got a fortune cookie and interpret it. Yeah, anyway, Nancy Reagan, she decided not to listen to her astrologer's advice. She found a different astrologer who'd tell her what she'd want to hear, and then she told her husband that he should indeed run for president in nineteen seventy six. He was in the stars, He did, and he lost the primary. Carol Ryder was correct, it.
Was not at times.
Well, that may have been not the right moment for the Reagans. As we all know, they didn't have to wait long because four years later, in nineteen eighty, Ronald Reagan ran again for the White House, and that time the Reagan spoiler alert. Carol Ryder became a frequent guest at the Reagan White House, which did not play well. However, by then he was a very old man and he didn't care. And also he knew he would not outlive the Reagan's presidency. If you can believe it, Carol Rider
correctly predicted the date of his own death. Really anyway, Knowing he didn't have long, the astrologer knew he needed to turn the reins over to another astrologer who could divine the future for Nancy Reagan. Enter Joanne Quigley. She was a San Francisco based astrologer. She was raised in knob Hill. A child of wealth and privilege. She attended Vassar. She went on to publish books on astrology. She was also on the talk show circuit. You could find her
on MERV Griffin's show. It was MERV who brought her to the Reagan's orbit. Yeah, okay, but what do you think happened on March thirtieth, nineteen eighty one that pushed Nancy Reagan to seek out an astrologer that she could count on and depend on for life advice? Is that when he shot her husband got shot.
Yeah.
Yes, less than three months into his presidency, someone tried to assassinate Ronald Reagan in order to impress Jodie Foster. Yeah, nut job. Rightly, he was convinced that if he killed Reagan, Jody Foster would want to go out with him or something.
A lot of barriers.
I got some bad news for you about who Jody Foster prefers. Anyway, he went through with it. He damn near killed Reagan. I don't know if you know this, but how close he came to dying. Yeah, apparently the press secretary took a note at the time, doctors believe bleeding to death. Right. He also recorded other diagnostics doctors had told him in the in the er, they said, can't find a wound. Think we're going to lose him,
rapid loss of blood pressure, touch and go. Yeah. So the bullet that hit Reagan left a quote, tiny jagged slit in Reagan's side, and the doctor didn't notice it. None of the doctors noticed it until they'd stripped Reagan. After they cut off his clothes and he was naked on the gurney, one of them spotted a tiny entry wound and in that nice you get a picture of naked Reagan on a gurney. Anyway, thank you, It wasn't
even a doctor who noticed the bullet wound. It was an intern who had been in Vietnam War, and he was like, that's a bullet wound, and he pointed it out and he's like, yeah, there's no exit wounds. Three hours of surgery later, the surgeons discovered the bullet just chilling a couple inches away from his heart. The bullet was in Reagan's left lung. When the president finally came around, he wrote on a pad, I'm alive, aren't I Right? Then, when Nancy was finally at his bedside, he joked his
older honey, I forgot to duck. So he joked with his attending doctors, I hope you all were all Republicans. Weeks Reagan was back at work in the White House. Yes, yeah, Yet, though, there was a new error about him, because, as Nancy Reagan biographer Karen Tumulty wrote that Reagan quote saw a divine hand in the fact that he had been spared, which made him more convinced than ever that there was a purpose at work in his presidency. So now he's
all messianic. He's God's chosen president. Meanwhile, Nancy got deeper into the occult. So, as her biographer Tumulty wrote, quote, her astrology was a crutch. Nancy didn't have religion to fall back on, and Ronald Reagan had a very deep religious faith. He truly believed God had a plan for him. But despite his Christian faith, Ronnie was cool with his wife's love of Ay. As Nancy wrote in her memoir, Reagan told her, quote, if it makes you feel better,
go ahead and do it. He also cautioned her, but it might look a little odd if it ever came out. Now, as the leader of the Free world, he couldn't have allies and enemies, or the American people believing that an astrologer was shaping White House policies. Now that was the case. Elizabeth will take a break, and after this I will tell you how that eventually came out. All right, Elizabeth, we're back here. I am there you are. He told me you'd be here. It okay, Leader of the Free World,
his wife's into the occult. You got to keep this a secret, right, Nancy's leaning on astrologers to keep her husband safe from future assassinations. Now, astrology in the White House, right, this, as I said, mainly started after the assassination. The thing was, Nancy had been warned about the assassination.
Really by whom after the fact, her old warned.
After the fact, her old friend, MERV Griffin contacted her.
He's like spoiler alerts, and.
He told her an astrologer had told him that in the president's chart quote they saw something bad would happen that day. So apparently they got told. BRV got told beforehand, Nancy got told anything.
He was just like sitting in the kaftan in Palm Springs and like, I slipped my mind to tell her.
I meant to tell you, but you were busy. So when she hears Nancy said, with an actor's theatricality, oh my god, I could have stopped it. So now she's on a mission, right, So MERV Griffin connects her with this psychic astrologer's friend of hers, Joan Quiggly, and uh, this means at this point now the president will be guided by a San Francisco astrologer who has Nancy's ear right. Her influence lasted seven years, the whole first term and all but the last few months of Reagan's second term.
In nineteen eighty eight, the open Secret came out to the public. You see, Nancy Reagan made an enemy and he knew the astrology secret. When she came for him, he struck back at her. Oh and that awesome. So, in her own words, Nancy Reagan knew that relying on an astrologer to keep her husband safe and to make decisions for the America's future and the future you know, all of the people was not a good idea. She
knew that, right, but she didn't care. Nancy Reagan was like, no, that is what's good for Nancy Reagan will hopefully be good for most of the people. Now. She was hooked right. As she wrote in her autobiography, she said that her relationship with the astrologer Joanne Quigley quote began as a crutch. Within a year or two it had become a habit. Oh, she's like a star chart junkie. This my right, so her biography or Kitty Kelly, she wrote that quote. Nancy
Reagan relied on Joanne Quigley. She would call her sometimes eight times a day for almost everything, down to unbelievable details, including the takeoff and landing times for Air Force One. That was astrology that charted their way. Nobody knew that at the time.
Wait like that, Oh wow, yes, and you know home girl's sitting there in San Francisco and every time she takes a call, she's like making a note in the ledger how many hours this is.
Also, it was a costly relationship because when you're keeping that secret, you know, you can charge a gazill right so quickly.
She was another thing, I want to do a psyche powers and then charge up the huha for it.
She was paid by the hour and had a retainer. She was like a lawyer. She was kept on retainer to the tune of three grand a month. That would be ninety five hundred and twenty twenty four dollars. Nancy Reagan was sent monthly bills to pay the monthly retainer, and aedy racked up charges for the month. The bill obviously was not sent to the White House, but it was sent to a private zip code that was then routed to the presidential residence in the White House. But
so it's kind of circumvented. Most of they unwonted oversight. Yeah, then she had an old friend in California reportedly pay the astrologers monthly bills on behalf of the President and the first Lady. That created a layer of removal, and that way there's no direct evidence. There was no checks from Nancy Reagon to of San Francisco Astrology. So at this point, to make sure her husband stayed safe from assassins, Nancy Reagan would give her private astrologer the president's upcoming schedule.
You know that, Like the Secret Service would have just lost it, oh completely if they knew. They did not know that Nancy kept it super hush. So over time, Nancy came to trust her astrologer's psychic quickly, so much that she asked her advice on how Reagan should handle the Soviet Union and nuclear proliferation and the ongoing Cold War. Of course, her psychic was like, I got you boo,
hand me my star charts. In order for astrologer's prognostications that have sway over the White House, Nancy had to find a willing accomplice, right, an insider she could trust and manipulate and terrify. Right, So she found the perfect accomplice, this dude named Michael Deaver. He was one of Reagan's closest advisers, right. He was keen to help her get away with this. So their influence campaign started first with
managing the president's scheduling. Nancy Reagan's biographer Tomlty documented the secret partnership. She wrote that quote Deaver would dither and then insist, for example, that the president and his plane takeoff for a foreign trip at precisely to eleven am. He concocted stories to tell the traveling press a pre dawn takeoff. It was deemed to have been dictated by medical advice on how to avoid jet lag. So he
was just lying. So meanwhile, Reagan's chief of staff, James Baker, he was not down with astrology or really any of the occult so he just pretended none of this was happening, just exactly like, I don't know what that's that's not happening over there. Let me look at my watch. Oh I love my watch. Now he had to wait on Quigley to tell Nancy when the president could address the nation, hold a press conference, all sorts of stuff, imagining the chief of staff at the White House, and you got away.
All weird times, like the press conference starts at three forty seven, the.
Plane leaves it to eleven am exactly, So James Baker recalled at the time, quote, when we wanted to schedule a big thing like a press conference, he'd say, let me take a look at it. Then we figured he and Nancy would talk about the date. Now it's clear that they were clearing it all with her with the astrologist. So he found out way later. That's how much he was like head in the sand about this. After the first term, Deaver decides he'd had enough of life in
the White House. He's like, this sucks. So eight nineteen eighty four, after Reagan's re elected, Deaver begins to prep his replacement get him to be cool with the whole astrologer's shadow influence on the White House. Deaver insisted his replacement be cool with this, so he invites him out for a drink to kind of like tell him how it goes. He breaks it to him right. The dude was quote flabbergasting, and he told him and I quote, holy Mike, I thought you were a madman. I can't
believe you had to do this. Now now it was his responsibility, and he took it on. This dude's name was Bill Hankel, and now he fell under Nancy's powers of persuasion just the same as Deaver had. Soon enough, he's keeping her secrets too, no questions about it. All it took was the strategic confession of her fears. You see, Nancy confided to him how Reagan's near assassination terrified her and she would do anything to keep the president safe. Nancy told him, and I quote Bill, I want you
to understand and feel what it was like. I saw six doctors with panic in their eyes. My naked husband. I knew he was dying. So there you go. Nancy Reagan wants you to feel fear. That's gotta be a weird moment. And then she uses naked Ronald Reagan to make you understand fear. That would do it for me. Do it for me anyway, so that.
I'm made of stronger stuff?
Do you have? I worked in two naked Reagan into the same thing anyway entered Donald Reagan.
It's like from the waist up.
Okay, there you go, cartoon mine.
And it's very like a Kendall smooth.
From it's okay, oh, I gave like a waxy and place.
Yeah, so it's just a wax figure.
So former Treasury Secretary Donald Reagan, he becomes Reagan's new chief of staff after James Baker's like deuces, and oh boy, did he hate Nancy Reagan. I just saw Red hated her, right, and Nancy hated him. So one time, after she'd called his office for like the three hundred and seventy seventh time, he barred no one in particular, I'm not the chief of staff of the first lady. Oh yeah, that kind of sexist. So Nancy, he liked to say of Donald Reagan, quote,
don thought he was the president. Yeah. So the lines in the sand were drawn, and it didn't take Nancy long to figure out what she needed to do, which is run a White House coup and get rid of Donald Reagan. So how does she do this? To get rid of Donald Reagan? She needed something that wouldn't point back at her. So she's like, I'm Nancy, I can figure this. Moment she waits, she finds the perfect excuse
in the form of the Iran Contra affair. Oh my god, she uses that as a spatchelor let to flip him out of the White House. Yes, when that sordid scandal broke and rocked to the Reagan White House, Nancy slightly used all the negative attention to oust Donald Reagan like it's him. Oh yeah, that's easy, orchestrates his removal. Boom, he's out. But a man like Donald Reagan, he's not gonna go quiet. He's gonna remember he waited. Meanwhile, he wrote a book, and in that book he documented everything
he knew and everything he could allege. And it comes out in nineteen eighty eight, just in time, well Reagan still president election year. Donald Reagan made sure that Nancy's big secret was revealed in a way that it looked
maximally manipulative and conniving. And so for Reagan wrote, and I quote, virtually every major move and decision that Reagan's made during my time as White Elf chief of staff was cleared in advance with a woman in San Francisco who drew up horoscopes to make certain that the planets were in a favorable alignment. He also wrote that he didn't personally know the astrologer's name or her identity. Now the news of the book hits right, Nancy springs into action.
She contacts her astrologer, and Nancy tells her the any like busy body reporters come sniffing around her place. The astrologer is to deny the story. Yeah, and I quote lie. If you have to just lie, you can't say anything. So that's her approach. Didn't take long for the reporters to get to San Francisco. They find the astrologer. Remember, it's an open secret. So the astrologer psychic was only too happy to come forward and to tell her side of the story. She completely ignored.
Nancy told her to.
Yeah, exactly is her chance. So she told a reporter from the Associated Press that she was quote a serious scientific astrologer. To clarify what that meant, she added, and I quote, I am really not one of those clowns. And I really don't like the circus atmosphere. So she's serious, She's dead serious. Yeah. Anyway, soon enough she had a book deal, so she cashed in on all that the circus atmosphere she didn't like. She made it work for
her in the name of the name of a book. Quote, what does Jones say my seven years as a White House astrologer to Nancy and Ronald Reagan?
I kind of want to read that, right.
So once the story broke and their San Francisco astrologery is unmasked, the White House had to spring into damage control. Right Press secretary of the time Marlin Fitzwater, he tried to contain any damage from the psychic scandal. May fourth, nineteen eighty eight. He holds a White House press briefing downplays Donald Reagan's claims quote, it's true that Missus Reagan
has an interest in astrology. She has for some time, particularly following the assassination attempt in March of nineteen eighty one. He was very concerned for her husband's welfare, and astrology has been part of her concern in terms of his activities. The New York Times also reported that, quote, mister Fitzwater acknowledged that the President has a superstitious streak. He often talks and speeches about quote lucky numbers and jokes that
the ghost of Abraham Lincoln resides in the White House. Well, yeah, so they just wanted to basically connect all the dots. So Ron reag was eventually asked about this by reporters and they're like shouting at him because he won't answer the questions. Eventually he replies, quote no policy or decision in my mind has ever been influenced by astrology. Okay, so that raised the question, other than scheduling, what influence did Quiggly have?
Like?
How much influence did this San Francisco psychic really scheduling? In her nineteen ninety memoir, quickly claimed that she advised the President not to play it so tough in negotiations
with Mikhail Gorbachev and the Soviet Union. She told Nancy Reagan that, quote, Ronnie's evil empire attitude has got to go, so quickly claimed in nineteen eighty six, in the hours before a summit in Iceland between the Soviet Union and in the US that focused on nuclear disarmament, quickly read the star charts of Reagan and Gorbachev, and she told Nancy Reagan their horoscopes. In a twenty fourteen interview, Quiggily recalled, I affected the relationship between the superpowers by my reading
of Gorbachev's horoscope. What does she mean by that? Elizabeth Well, in her own words, quickly told Nancy Reagan, quote, Gorbachev's aquarian planet is in such harmony with Ronnie's. You'll see they'll share a vision now. Nancy Reagan reported that to the White House advisor, specifically, she told Bill Hankel the good news right She's like, oh, great news, no nuclear war whatever. Right, So Henkel, he wrote in his autobiography, quote, she came back saying, these two have by the stars
some good vibes. So I guess the psychic astrology was right, because the world did get nuclear disarmament. And so there you go. I admit there was no explicit criminal prosecution of Nancy, but I said, you know that there was an alleged criminal scandal run by Nancy Reagan and the news that Ronald Reagan was secretly being guided by a San Francisco astrology I mean, you got to admit that's ridiculous.
Yeah, it's both ridiculous and slightly criminals.
So what's your ridiculous?
Oh boy, howdy, I need psychic powers because let's make it all about me for a second course, as I do, I need psych I think too that it's fascinating. I'm not like astrology person. I have you know, close friends who are and it's like a serious thing for them, and I respect that.
I respect anything that the person to get through the deck.
But you know, you're talking about how he would say lucky numbers, and there are so many things that we do that are you know, woo. And you know, even like the stock market is astrology for bros. You know, it's like.
It's like one of those mood rocks for capitalists.
Totally, so I think, you know, we can't we can't look too unkindly on it. Plus, I know they got you know, the psychics, but then you also had like at that time, like Cheney and Rumsfeld, you know, scooting around out of that.
Uh Ford White House going when do we get power? To get power?
They were more influential than it. But it's like, Zaren, what's your ridiculous take?
It's so refreshing, so naked Ronald Reagan, right. I love that that Nancy gets that, you know, the thing that she loves is also the way to make someone taste fear. Turns me on. But this will make you taste fear. So there you go. That's mine.
It's beautiful.
Oh hey, you in the mood for a talkback?
I love talkbacks. Let's hear one producing.
D Oh my god, I love get.
Hi guys. I'm just listening to the Agatha Christie episode and I literally spit coffee out when I listened to elizabeths impersonation of Sean Connery. Love your show. Thanks so much for all the laughs.
Nic Yes, thank you guys always, you know, keep those coming. We did those, and you couldn't always call us on our hotline that we don't have yet, but you can find us online at Ridiculous Crime on Twitter and Instagram, I think, and we have the website ridiculous Crime dot com. And also we, as I said, love your talkback, so please give us more of those.
Call us on the talk back, call us on the.
Hot back talkback line emails if you want a Ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com. All right, thanks for listening. We'll catch you next crime Ye. Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and Zaren Burnette, produced and edited by Tip O'Neil's bartender Dave Kuskin. Research is by Marissa astrologer to the reality TV stars Brown and Andrea. Just Say Yes song Sharpened Hear Our theme song is by Thomas Team, Bonzo Lee and Travis Rockney, all American. Dutton. The host
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