Dock Ellis: High and Outside [from Very Special Episodes]

In the spring of two thousand and eight, former Major League pitcher Doc Ellis sat down for an interview with American public media show Weekend America. He was sixty three years old at the time. He recalled for listeners the day back in nineteen seventy when he threw a no hitter on LSD. As Doc told it.

We flew into San Diego and I asked the manager could I go home because we had.

An off day?

So he said yeah.

So I took some LSD.

At the airport because I knew where it would hit me. I'd be in my own little area and I know where to go. So that's how I got to my friend's girlfriend's house. She said, what's wrong with you? As I'm High's at Georgia Park.

There he is on his supposed day off, and he's got a head full of acid. Now, Doc Ellis's off days were often colored with what you might call a psychedelic purple haze, But on this particular day off, Doc had a big surprise waiting for him. In the middle of his acid trip.

The next day, which I thought was the next day, she told me, you better get up, you.

Gotta go pitch. I said, pitch I pitched tomorrow.

Hell, what are you talking about? Because I had got.

Up in the middle of the morning. It took some more acid. Only after he double dipped on the LSD does Doc learn from his friend's girlfriend that he is scheduled to be on the mound to pitch a game in San Diego, part of a double header scheduled for later that same day. Plus Doc is in the wrong city.

She grabbed the paper, brought me to sports page and showed me boom. I said, oh wow, what happened to yesterday? She said, I don't know, but you better get you better get to that airport.

Still flying high, Doc races to the airport to catch a shuttle flight from Los Angeles to San Diego, the kind that leaves every half hour. In an interview with Kevin McAllister, doc Ellis tried to recall that ride, but he could not. He had to admit he didn't remember quote a goddamn thing about that part of his trip. We do know the flight is short, and when the plane lands, doc Ellis is still flying high on LSD. Somehow he manages to catch a taxi caab from the

Now.

As luck would have it, Doc makes it to the ballpark in time for the game. Next thing he knows, he's seated once more, this time in the locker room in San Diego Stadium. It's right around five o'clock in the afternoon, just about game time, and he still has that head full of acid. Doc thinks to himself, guess I'm gonna have to pitch this game. Fully tripping a second thought, fall was close. On the heels of that first thought, Doc considers the idea that perhaps taking even

When I got to the game, there was a lady down there in San Diego, so I always had the bennies for me, Benza Green, which is another stimulant. I went out to the dugout and reached up because she was standing over the rails.

She always stood over the rail and had.

A pretty little gold pouch.

So I got to Benny's went on back in the cloud house took them.

This might not be the ideal solution most folks would come up with, but as Doc Ellis recalls, taking speed and playing a ballgame, wasn't that uncommon in baseball at the time.

Now, this was in the seventies, and greens was deximials. That was the drug of choice back then, was a stimulant. Over ninety percent of major leagues was using deximal when I was playing.

So now it's just moments before the game scheduled to start at six oh five PM. Doc sits in the dugout watching the skies. There are clouds overhead. Perhaps he'll be saved by a change in the weather, maybe the game will get rained out. Doc sees the umpire walk out onto the diamond. He bends down to brush off home plate. Then the umpire gazes up to check those same cloudy skies. Seeing no imminent rain, he signals for the national anthem to begin. Watching this all go down,

The game started, and the miss started misty rain, so all doing the game was a little missed.

The weather never turns into a full on rain storm. Instead, this light, misty rain gives the ballgame a strange, otherworldly feel, almost mystical. And just like that, the stage is set at San Diego Stadium. All Doc has to do is pitch, Just focus in and get that ball over the plate. Most everyone else on the field can sense something isn't

The opposing team and my teammates danieoron was high, but they didn't know what I was high, or if they had no idea what LSD was other than what they see on TV with the hippies.

If they knew about the LSD or not. They're about to bear witness to one of the greatest and one of the strangest games in the history of Major League Baseball, a no hitter on Acid. Welcome to very special episodes and iHeart original podcast. I'm your host, Zaren Burnett, and this is Doc Ellis Hi and outside.

Welcome back to very special episodes. My name is Jason English. I am joined as always by Dana Schwartz, Hi and Zaren Burnett's what's up?

So, guys, have we talked before.

About the Snapple fact test? No? No, okay, So this goes back to the days when Snapple used to put those like fun facts on the inside of the bottle.

Color Yeah, And I use that.

When we're evaluating ideas that we're going to run with, and in some cases, the Snapple fact distillation of an idea is just the most interesting version, and you don't need another. I certainly don't need an hour explanation of why it's interesting. Take, for example, sea otters hold hands while sleeping so they don't drift apart like delightful love it.

Was a lot of fun.

I was fascinated as someone who really does not know anything about sports, or to be honest, really care about sports. I love a thing that does make me care about sports. I'm like, oh, this is interesting.

Nice way on.

I didn't see the hitters. All I could tell was if there was over the right side or the left side. The catcher put tape on his fingers so I could see the signals.

It is retelling of that fateful game. Doc also recalls how at other times it seems like all he can see is the umpire behind the plate. Later on in the game, Doc could swear President Richard Nixon is behind the plate. That's who's calling the balls and strikes. Also, at one point he believes the guitarist Jimmy Hendrix is at bat, only instead of a bat, Jimmy Hendrix is swinging his guitar. But wait, it gets even weirder than that.

We had a rookie on the team at that particular time named Dave Cash, and he kept saying.

After the first.

Inning, he said, you got a no no going, no hit it?

I said, yeah, all right, regardless if it's Nixon as the umpire or Jimmy Hendrix swinging his guitar. Doc Ellis holds on.

Get around the fourth. Then he had said, again, got a no note going.

Look yep, but I could also feel the pressure from other player wanting to tell him to shut up. It's a superstition thing where you're not supposed to say nothing if somebody's throwing a no hitter.

In a sport that's had its fair share of bigger than life characters, doc ellis Is was and remains one of baseball's most mercurial and enigmatic figures. He had undeniable talent as a pitcher. He had irresistible charisma as a teammate. However, it was away from the game that he had his most profound impact. His legendary career lasted twelve years. All Throughout that span of time, he won games, He won hearts, he won publicity for himself, his team, and for his people. He was a true rare.

One, so he was fun to watch. He was young.

He challenged the authorities at a time when we were challenging authority.

That's my pops. Zarreon Burnett Junior was a young man just starting out in life when doc Ellis was pitching. He watched many of his games, and he was a fan of his whole vibe and energy. That's why I asked him what doc Ellis was like back when he was playing in the majors.

He was a fun guy because he was young and he was current.

He was unrespectful of tradition because tradition is what kept black people out thinking, So tradition was never a reason in his eyes to do something.

For instance, one of the most iconic and celebrated images of Doc Ellis features him on the mound pitching glove in hand, but instead of his ball cap, he has a head decorated in pink hair curlers. His head looks like some satellite from the early days of the space race. His otherworldly appearance was a major cause for concern when he wore the pink curlers onto the field for pregame practice at the hallowed grounds of Wrigley Field. The year

Yeah.

First time I saw him, he was sitting in the bullpen before the game. My dad said, he said, I'm gonna make a picture of curls in here. I said, well, we're getting ready to see because the game is about to start. He walked out there with the curls and started attentioning the manager told him he didn't want them to do it anymore. Yeah, I don't care which he wants, said, I means the same thing, I don't.

Care what you want.

That's a picture perfect moment from Doc's career in Major League baseball. It was a picture that said far more than a thousand words. It was more like ten thousand words. It was plain and simple, open defiance of league traditions and standards. It was also a revolutionary's manifesto of self determination. That one image became a shorthand to understand Doc's whole

Doc, I have the picture of the pink curlers in a frame in my house.

Now. That is the one part of his baseball life.

He loved to talk about, Okay, those pink curlers because he said nobody believed he was gonna do it. And I looked at him and I was like, they must not know you like I known you, Because if you have told me that one time, I would have been like buck don't do it.

But as anyone who personally knew him would attest, that was Doc. He was gonna do whatever he felt was right and good to do, even if that meant wearing pink curlers that made the Commissioner of baseball lose his ever loving mind.

But please believe me, I have plenty pictures of him, and I laugh at all of them.

Who did he really think he was?

And that's the question we aim to answer, Who did Doc Ellis think he was? Years after he first wore those pink curlers in his hair, Doc spoke with the poet Donald Hall, and he gave a hint to his thinking at the time. The pink curlers gave him a sly advantage in the fall of seventy two. In the summer of seventy three, Doc said, quote, that's when I was throwing spitballs. When I had the curlers my hair,

He told the truth about that night. A lot of people still questioned that all these years later.

You heard her, She insists, the legend in this case is real.

He was really telling the truth. Doc was telling the truth about that night. He definitely wasn't hiding from it.

That's because as mysterious and enigmatic as he was to the world, doc Ellis knew himself.

He was a teller of truths without any questions asked. I'm a little biased because he was my husband, but I thought Doc was a very brilliant and talented man. He believed and was a fighter for dignity.

Doc Ellis was born on March eleventh, nineteen forty five, in Los Angeles, California. He was raised in a middle class black neighborhood located between Long Beach, Guardina, and Watts in south central LA. His early years were remarkably normal, uneventful, and animated by the love of his parents. He was known as a fun loving kid, a bit of a prankster, and he was an exceptional athlete. By the time he reached high school, he was a six foot three multi

Doc was a man who was able to camouflage his pain in other ways.

Sometimes Doc had to mask his pain behind his excellence on the field or the diamond. Luckily, around that same time, he met a man who would change the course of his life, a former ballplayer turned scout named Chet Brewer. He'd played in the Negro Leagues, back before Major League Baseball allowed black players into the majors. Brewer played with the legendary Negro League's pitcher Satchel Page, and so when he saw the young Doc Ellis pitch, Brewer immediately knew

That's what all those colors werefore. You know, doctor Pepper is the Philly of pepper upper. They'll never ever let you down. That was the appetiting slogan.

You have to keep in mind that in twentieth century America things were often similar to now yet very different, and daily drug use wasn't seen the same as long as it was something acceptable like coffee or a mid day martini, or if you were a ballplayer, a handful of speed pills. Of course, the same could not be said about taking LSD. That was a whole other ballgame. After these messages, we will be back to relive the

So by the time that he hit the bullpens, half the world has melted.

We that's about the time coach.

Mor talk came and said, Doc Joe pitching today.

That's the folk singer Todd Snyder he wrote a song called America's Favorite Pastime all about Doc Ellis and his no Hitter on acid. As a fellow psychonot known to enjoy the pleasures of LSD both on and off the stage, he considers Doc Ellis a fellow traveler. When I asked him if he thinks of Doc as a hero of his, todd Snyder said, yeah, for.

Sure, and then all a lot of sports people like that for me, but he's long for sure. It's because he pitched an a hitter on LSD.

Todd Snyder's still remembers well the first time he heard the story of Doc Ellis and his spectacular LSD tinged No Hitter.

I was in Oregon with my friend the Late and Jeff Austin and his band, the Hundred Mountain String Band were headlined in this show, and about an hour before they went on, they all took LSD and I thought, huh, I've done a lot of things I hadn't formed on LSD.

Obviously, playing a show is far different than pitching in the major leagues. However, there were similarities that Todd experienced when he also tried to perform with a head full of acid.

I said, this is the only job on the earth where no one's gonna pas nigh.

You might even do better, you know, And then he was like, well, not true.

There was a guy a picture doc Ellis, who took LSD and threw a perfect game or no hitter in the second he said that to me, I knew. I remember just thinking, well, I'm gonna do a something. There's a baseball player to it, no hit her on LSD, and then went and read all about it.

That's how he was first inspired to write his song celebrating the rare genius of doc Ellis. And that was also not the only time Todd Snyder took acid before he took the stage.

I was in my hotel and I took it and it hit before I got out of the hotel. Then he was across the street. I don't know how I missed it, but I ended up lost sort of on the Sunset Strip area. I just lost track of what I was doing in La And then I sat down in front of this slicker store and some kids said we're going to the show walk by, and this girl said, are you Todd Snyder? Like, yeah, I am. She said, we're going to see your show. I was like, you gotta take me with you to that.

You know.

That is a picture perfect example of the sort of challenges one can run into when attempting to perform with a head full of acid. It's also a good example of what Doc Ellis was up against when he took the field that fadeful night in San Diego. He was twenty five years old and the whole world was going through a cultural revolution, but not everyone had to brave their acid hallucinations in front of a rowdy crowd plus

I jumped because I thought he was coming fast, but the ball was coming slow. Third base would come by and grab the ball and threw somebody out.

Other times, when a batter made contact, Doc had to spring into action and make a defensive play. As he tells it.

One time I covered first base and I cacked the ball and I tagged the bas all in one most and I said, oh, I just made a touchdown it.

There was the less dramatic challenge of fielding the ball when the catcher threw it back to him after a pitch. As Doc recalls, that was a whole other debacle to get through.

I never caught a ball from to catch it with two hands because I thought that was a big old ball, and then sometimes it looks small.

The way my pops remembers Doc's performance that day was how his pitches were sometimes heaters that twisted up batters like a pretzel. However, other times his control was not so pinpoint.

Yeah, I remember the no hitter because he was wild. He walked like seven or eight people, and I think he hit a couple, but nobody got a hit.

The way Doc tells it confirms what my pops remembers.

In a crazy game, I'm hitting people, walk on people, throwing balls in the dirt. They're going everywhere.

It was a struggle, no doubt, and yet somehow Doc held on.

I didn't pay no attention to the score. You know, I'm trying to get the batters out.

In the eighth inning, Doc served up an errant pitch, but it was the kind that a hitter could get their bat on and make contact, which is exactly what happened. The ball sailed deep. Everyone in the ballpark watched its flight through that misty night air, and then somehow, some way, Pirates outfielder Mattie Alou ran under the ball and made a tremendous catch, just in time to save the no hitter.

Everybody in our ball finish stand and they're walking around nervously. They want to run and grab Doc. Now, two balls, two strikes, and here's the pitch fight. Three they got after him.

He got it.

They're moving.

Doc Emment got a no hitters.

Against all odds he'd done it. Doc Ellis had pitched one of the wildest no hitters in the history of baseball, literally, and he'd done it with his head fully dancing with LSD.

Doc Ellis was going drugs and he was talking shit all the time and winning. So then when he pitched a no hitter, was like, of course, of course they did. And it wasn't pretty, it wasn't neat, but it was a no hitter.

It was easier to pitch with the LSD because I was so used to medicating myself. That's the way I was dealing with the fear of failure. It's the fear of losing, the fear of winning. It's just that it was part of the game. You know, you get to the major leagues and you say, I got to stay here.

What do I need. The wildest part of his no hitter on acid is how once he'd pulled off the near impossible, doc Ellis didn't want to talk about it. As loud and as proud as he was, as much of a competitor as he was, it wasn't something he talked to the press about. Not for a few years did anyone know what he'd done. And even then When folks did finally learn about the minor miracle he'd managed to pull off, Doc wanted to talk about it, even less it.

Was something he never ever celebrated at all. He honestly didn't even remember pitching that game. That's how much of a fall it was for him.

Now, if you can believe it. That wasn't the only game he pitched on acid. There was another famous outing when he took to the mound flying high on LSD. Only in that other game he had almost the exact opposite experience. He didn't even make it out of the first inning. Four years after the no hitter he pitched on acid, doc Ellis was back on the mound, aided by LSD. It was May Day, as in May one, nineteen seventy four, the Pittsburgh Pirates were facing their rivals,

Tony Perez managed to dodge for him.

Well, he missed Tony Perez. That was enough wild pitches to walk in, which brought Pete Rose home.

So he walked a run in. The next guy came up.

Remember that the next guy is another future Hall of Famer, Johnny Bench. As Doc Ellis tells it, quote, I tried to deck Bench twice. I threw at his jaw and he moved. I threw it at the back of his head and he moved.

He threw at his head twice. So then that's when imager just took him out. So o hea, he gonna get You're gonna start a riot.

That infamous second game Doc pitched on acid was equally memorable, just for the exact opposite reason. He didn't get a single out, but strangely, he did earn the respect of his teammates, or at least one of them. Pittsburgh Pirates great and future Hall of Famer Dave Parker recalled how quote when he came up and said he was gonna hit all those reds. I thought, you ain't gonna do nothing, man. Then he did it. I'd gained a lot of respect

I think it's marketing the cellar book. He wasn't Baseball's behind a Lea. He was Baseball's Doc Ellis.

Some folks have also called Doc Ellis a militant, but to those who saw him pitch and those who knew him intimately, that word also doesn't quite fit the man they knew.

I remember Docs. I won't say activism because he wasn't an activist, but he was an agitator. He was an activist within baseball, but he was always pointing out the inequity. It wasn't like he had an idea that he wanted them to do something. He wanted them to stop doing something. He wanted them to stop all of the racist stuff, you know, like counting the black guys on the team and then making sure you don't have too many so you don't offend the white fans. Even having that thought,

Doc's wife Hadjeordis very much agrees with my pop's assessment. In fact, she goes further.

Doc definitely wasn't a militant, and I don't think that was the name that he deserved, but he ran with it because he always said, Jeordy, I'm gonna give the people what the people want, and that's what they want. They want to see a militant, and I'm gonna act like a mility. Said, if they want to see a clown, you give them a clown. And I just think that a lot of things that Doc did he was feeding in to what the people were really wanting to seek from him.

That assessment feels far more fitting because Doc Ellis was one of a kind. Any easy comparison or label such as militant ultimately cheapens what made Doc so distinct more than the no hitter on acid. It was a year later, at the All Star Game in nineteen seventy one that showed the world why Doc Ellis was so singular, But also that game revealed how much love and respect Doc had for his people, for black folks, and how he was willing to stand on business demanding that baseball show

This is invited, Blue could throw a ball through a car wash and it would not get wet the automatic car wash you get, throw it from one or another and come out dry.

To face him in the All Star Game for the National League, there was Doc Ellis. Everyone knew they were the two best pitchers and as such they should both start at the All Star Game. However, there were those who didn't want America's pastime to give such an honor to two black ballplayers. That didn't sit right with Doc Ellis, so he launched a campaign to demand that the National

He said, I don't think the league is ever gonna start two black guys in an All Star game. Yeah, he said his stayouts and then Sparky Anderson started him just to prove he wasn't a racist, I believe so that thought to not be in the position of proving him right, so he got to start the game, which I think was his plan all the time.

Another result is that for a very large number of fans, doc Ellis became one of the most unpopular players in Major League Baseball. Yet, when he was asked about the hate he was receiving for his stand, doc Ellis was quick to say he didn't quote give a fuck what anybody thought. One reason he was willing to take a big hit of negative publicity and stand up and speak his mind is that he did it not only for himself, but also for his friend, the as pitcher Vita Blue.

Oh my god, him invited Blue or Thickest Thieves.

I had the opportunity to be around Bida quite a bit after Doc and I married. Bida was like another brother to him, and he spoke very highly of Da. He had nothing but the utmost respect for Bida.

After that All Star game, there was one man who watched the game saw the backlash from the sporting press, and he was so moved by what Doc had bravely done for black ball players in the league that he sat down and wrote a heartfelt letter to Doc Ellis.

I read your comments and I paid with the last few days, and I wanted you to know how much I appreciate your courage and honesty. In my opinion, progress for today's players will only come from this kind of dedication. I am sure. Also you know some of the possible consequences. The news media, while knowing full will you all right and honest, will use every means to get you. Blacks should not protest as you are, even though they know you are right. Honors that should be yours will bypass you,

When he received that letter, to say that his reaction was emotional is a powerful understatement. As his wife has Jordis recalls.

Oh boy, here you go.

No, yes, he did. We read that letter all the time in our home. That letter was something that was to be honest with you, That was truly the first time I ever witnessed Doc actually crying. And I'd seen many moments in his life that most people would have cried over, but that was the first time I had ever seen him cry, and he was finally able to break himself to read out loud.

Doc Ellis knew well what Jackie Robinson had gone through as the first black ball player in modern baseball, the man who broke the color line. To read the mutual respect that Jackie had for him and for what he'd done by standing up and speaking out. Receiving that letter was one of the greatest moments in the life of Doc Ellis when Jackie Robinson told him, as my Pops puts it.

You're right, You're going to be right, but they're still going to you. But this has to be done, and what's right changes from moment to moment. So he liked the fact that Doc was open about the mistreatment that was still being visited at all on black people, because that was consistent with what he believed to be happening, and he was glad somebody else was talking about naturally.

The film producer David Permit also recognizes the cinematic value of that moment and that letter.

Of course it's in our script. I mean Jackie Robinson. We all know what he represents, and Doc Ellis revered him as we all have looking back on history and what he achieved. So that was one of the most meaningful things that ever happened to Doc that letter. It was an emotional high point in his life.

To receive that letter. You can only imagine.

There was another great black ball player who also meant the world to Doc Ellis. His name was Roberto Clemente. He was Doc's teammate on the Pittsburgh Pirates and together they shared a remarkable bond. As well, they also shared a remarkable moment in baseball history. On September one, nineteen seventy one, months after the All Star Game, he'd started the Pittsburgh which were the first team in Major League Baseball to field an all black lineup, many of whom

Nobody talked about it in advance because it wasn't planned as an action. Danny Mert talk I think was the manager he should put the best guys on the field and on that team, they.

All happened to be black. Somehow.

My pops caught that game on TV. Living in Pennsylvania at the time, he got to witness that history being made.

All the neighborhood bars were full because we.

Wanted to We wanted to see this this negro league team, that's what they had to call, a negro league team into major and they were kidding everybody's ass.

So yeah, that was a lot of fun.

No, Doc was real proud part of that historic day.

Doc wasn't one to really talked about pride in a loud kind of way.

However, that day was particularly moving for Doc, especially considering what he'd gone through during the All Star Game earlier that season and the whirlwind of controversy he'd created.

That moment was very meaningful to him. For him, it was a sign of progress and a reflection of collective talent, and he knew that it meant to stand at the mound representing not just a team, but a community. So it was a very proud moment for him.

And just like with the All Star Game, Doc got to share that honor with a man he'd call a brother, Roberto Clemente. That same year, their team would go on to win the World Series. Nineteen seventy one was a high point year in the life of Doc Ellis. Sadly though, his time with Roberto Clemente was drawing to a close, because the next year, after the baseball season, in December of nineteen seventy two, Clemente was on a private plane carrying a low of much needed relief supplies to an

Roberto's deck hit Doc in a very undescribable way.

It was a wound that never healed, just truly didn't. He spoke of.

Roberto with so much tenderness and respect, and he always said that that friendship truly shaped how he thought about service.

Roberto Clemente's selflessness and his example of a meaningful life outside of baseball would stay with Doc Ellis and would shape the next chapter of his life Beyond the Diamond.

His relationship in friendship with Roberto is what I'm about to cry, would truly shaped him into understanding the true meaning and purpose bends the service and Scarfletts.

Towards the end of his career, Doc bounced around the league, pitching for a variety of teams. But it was when he left the Pirates that he took yet another emotional hit, one that clarified for him how mercurial the folks who were once his fans could be, and also how cruel. Doc was known to drive a flashy red convertible Cadillac to all the Pittsburgh Pirates home games. He'd bought the car with his teammate, the future Hall of Famer Willie Stargel.

The only thing he ever said about that car. Will He made me do it, and just.

Like that, Doc bought the Red Caddy and he dubbed it the Doc Bobile. He outfitted that car with vanity license plates that read Doc.

Was probably his most favorite car, not only because it was a red Caddy, but because it was Willie Stargo that talked him into purchasing it. When Willie passed away, I remembered him saying, I would give anything in the world if I had that red Caddy to pull up at Willy's funeral in and I was like, why would you do that? He said, Willie would understand.

My pops remembers that red caddy from the images published in magazines of the day.

They had a picture of it at Ebony by Jet one of them, and also in Sports Illustrated. Sports Illustrated had leaning on a car. Yeah, and the athletes a bought catallacts. They may sure you some.

That red caddy became a symbol of Doc his high living, his success, and his blackness. And that car was how the fans of Pittsburgh let Doc know they were pissed that he was leaving the team. Some fans stole his red Caddie and then they burned it to the ground.

He believes that it was because at that era, in that time, he was a black man. He said, that was the only way that he could ever see the logic in it. Why it happened, and what happened to the car once it was stolen. It wasn't like they stole it and took it on a joy ride. They stolen and then they set it on fire and burned it.

That was his goodbye from Pittsburgh, from the team and the community he'd done so much for and given so much of himself. There's a question of why Doc Ellis isn't in the Hall of Fame. His career numbers suggest he could possibly make the cut, but you won't see his name in the Hall alongside so many of his

Would be the thing that would always keep him from being inducted into the Hall of Fame.

Between his no hitter on acid and his outspoken time in the league, Doc had no illusions that Baseball's Hall of Fame would ever honor him.

Doc had accepted that he would never be.

Thankfully, Doc's life was far bigger than baseball, and despite the many slights he endured, the public backlashes he faced, the emotional blows he took, he was able to find a far more meaningful life outside the baseball diamond. In nineteen seventy nine, Doc left the Texas Rangers. He was traded to the New York Mets and then made a return to Pittsburgh for his final three games before he retired. At first, he thought he might go into broadcasting, he

Doc always said, they're working for the Yankees as a substance abuse counselor was a role he gave him the opportunity to turn all of his personal struggles into practical help. He could reach players who were still in the cycle of addiction. He had the blessing of being able to speak from his own experience.

It ended up saving careers and lines.

I'm gonna be honest with you, I think he enjoyed that job with the Yankees, working on the subton's abuse aspect, far more than he enjoyed being on the field.

That's how his post baseball life took shape. He found meaning, he found redemption, and he did not do it for headlines. He did it quietly, He did it humbly. He did it for himself and for others.

The work meant so much to him, and Doc found nothing but purpose in counseling, mentoring, advocating for those who had no advocates.

Ultimately, drug counseling became a far more important part of his life than his career in the majors. You might say he was a drug counselor who used to play baseball.

Substance.

Abused counseling truly became the heart of his life mission. To see him sit and stand at the podium and speak, it was mesmerizing. He just had charisma like that. He had the boys, he had the courage, you know, and he was going to always speak truth to Powell.

Doc was particularly effective speaking to incarcerated youth. He was a former major leaguer, so that was exciting for them. But also he knew the lives they had led. He got them at that bone deep level. He could speak to them from the heart and they would listen eagerly. But one thing he would not talk about was his no hitter on acid.

Because it delivers the wrong message. That's all they would remember. If he was talking about that, they would enjoy the story. They'd be laughing, so they would forget everything else he said. So, yeah, that's how he did the right thing by not talking about it.

The beautiful thing about that.

Once Doc realized where he truly fit in, what his true purpose was, he threw every amount of energy he had into helping the youth.

Not just youth, young.

Men who were caught up in the system, especially individuals that he deemed is at risk behind bars, and one thing he was not going to do is glorify his LSD no hitter because he just didn't want young people to see it as an endorsement of drugs.

The very thing he's now most remembered for he never wanted to speak about. He wanted to leave all that behind so that he could truly change lives. One thing is certain, his old friend and teammate Roberto Clemente would have been very, very proud.

So his whole thing was, let's redirect this story, let's move away from the drugs, and let's talk about what our lives could be without that. Because of that fact, he didn't want to ever appear to be glorifying that part of his life or his history.

Doc Elis spent twelve years in Major League baseball. He spent much longer as a drug counselor, and in that mission he found his life's true purpose. At the end of his life, he faced a painful illness, but how he'd lived his life gave him peace. In those final days, he.

Said to me, he said, you know what, Jordie, I know I'm gonna die, but at least I can die saying that I had thirty two good years versus sixty three bad years, and the thirty two good years he was speaking of was his life after baseball.

In two thousand and eight, Doc Ellis passed away at the age of sixty three, and in order to honor his life, his work, his memory, his wife had Jordis, started the Doc Ellis Foundation. They continue to work in the spirit of Doc and they do it for the people.

The Foundation's mission is clear.

I mean, we coordinate support for black and brown families that are dealing with violins, missing loved ones, any type of injustice. We're here to help anyone who is dealing with violence, a missing loved one. We placed our main focus on black and brown families because those are the voices that are the least paid attention to.

Those are the voices that are the least heard.

That seems to be the perfect way to honor Doc Ellis. As for the biopic film that will one day celebrate his life, the film producer David Permitt says.

That, Yeah, he's a hero of mine because he's a survivor. He survived. He survived in light of the racism, in light of the drug abuse, in light of everything else that he had to contend with in his life.

Looking back on his life, while you know, when we think of Doc Ellis, we think of a no hitter on acid, right, you know, we go right away to that. But I think there's a lot more meat on the bone, honestly than just that incident.

As my pop sums it up, Doc Elis can be proud of the fact.

That he was successful in baseball in spite of himself, and he was successful afterwards.

It calls of himself.

I can remember on his deathbed one of the things Doc said to me that out of all the things that he had done in his life, whether it was good or bad, the one thing he wished he could go back and change if he could, and that was that game on that day. He still wanted to pitch the no hitter, but without the drugs.

That was a very important to Doc Ellis, because.

Doc had a real issue with that, because he wanted to be more so known for who he was off the field versus who he was on the field. He always said that anybody truly could be a baseball player and a good baseball player if they had the mindset, but everybody was not capable of or willing to be a real man.

Ultimately, Doc Ellis is far, far more than the ballplayer who pitched a no hitter on acid. He was a true American folk hero, a man who paid a high price to enjoy the freedom that comes with being an American, and he spent the majority of his life improving the lives of others. That is his lasting legacy. One important note. Todd Snyder, the beloved folk singer, tragically passed away not long after our conversation. This might be the last interview

All right, Jaren, there seems like there's been a movie about this in development for many years.

Can you tell us anything.

About the project or maybe help them along by giving them some casting input?

Oh yeah, one hundred percent. So I know that to permit the filmmaker, he's been talking to various people. I don't know if he wants me to like bust out what casting I do know, So I'll say the casting that and then we can maybe I'll return to in a second. But for Doc Ellis, I went with young Lawrence Fishburne or young Forrest Whitaker. Obviously neither is available due to age, but those would be my two. For Robert Clemente, I went with a Damson Idris. I thought

Boy, Oh yeah, he's great.

Yeah, get him in there, right, that's by general casting. And then I hear you know, whispers that Lakeith Stanfield has been involved or is circling the project, or his strong possibility.

To be Doc, which I like, love it for any of us, any very special character or very special moments you want to shout out in this one.

Hmm.

I'll start with the Jackie Robinson letter.

I love that.

I was gonna say, Jackie Robinson really shows up.

Yeah right, I mean the fact that it takes both his wife cry and Doc cry, you know, and then I'll it made me get emotional just to hearing about it. So I think, yeah, we all have to kind of agree on that one, the Jackie Robinson letter and the wife if we're.

Doing very special character Doc's wife jordis, Yeah, she is, you know, keeping this story alive, like going well beyond the Snapple fact version of the story. And I found the second half of his life far more interesting than just that one game, which was also pretty interesting completely.

Yeah, they were definitely very much like partners in sobriety and in doing community service. And I just found a really compelling teller of his story, but also just in terms of the value of what his real life was outside of baseball. It is like she really sold me on the idea that it's like being a baseball player was a very small part of his life.

And getting your dad in there.

Oh yeah, shout out to Pops.

Very Special Episodes is made by some very special people. Today's episode was produced in partnership with School of Humans to show hosted by Zaren Burnett, Danish Schwartz and Jason English. Our senior producer is Josh Fisher. Today's episode was written by Zaren Burnett. Our story editor is Virginia Prescott from School of Humans. Producers are Etily's Perez.

And Amelia Brock.

Editing and sound design by Jesse Niswanger, Additional editing by Mary Doo. Research and fact checking by Austin Thompson and Zaren Burnett. Original music by Alisa McCoy, Show logo by Lucy Quintonia. Executive producers of today's episode are Virginia Prescott and Jason English. Very Special Episodes is a production of iHeart Podcasts.