"Comic Books Are Coming For Your Kids!"

you this? I don't hear the ridiculous part. Now, it's part of This is the end of my trilogy of food brands getting where they shouldn't be. So I talked about Applebee's. Applebee's I talked about it was the other one in Velveta, Martin Hines. Catch Up is doing the Hinze Vintage Drip collection. Every piece comes with its own unique glob of dried ketchup. Wait what I mean? I caught the whole Like I can hear the marketing meeting. You know, the kids are saying nice drips. So we're

known for drips as ketchup. We should merge that synergy. I can totally hear the meeting, But what I could not anticipate is we should also put some of our product on it. What do you mean our product? Like a nice dried dupe of ketchup? So some fashion maven has to go out and collect all these vintage pieces and then some dope has to walk around with a bottle of ketchup and just fling it at it. So each piece has some ketchup on it. And what happens when I wash my piece? You don't, because then I

lose the ketchup? Who washes clothes? Long awkward pause. Um, they yeah, I don't know. I don't know how you wash it whatever. Some of the things you're basically not supposed to wear, Like you you buy it and you want to tell people you own it, You take pictures of it, and you put on I guess well. They said, you know that they kinds is iconic and that the celebrating reuse is one of the things in the statement. And then they said it's for quote fashion risk takers,

is it though? And food lovers alike? So what are you going to buy it then suck on it when you're hungry? Lovers? Not Like you can just take a little with you and we can have a little favor in the in the press release that says, uh, they want to participate in the circular economy while doing good for the people in the planet. We hope it makes

a splash or drip. The circular economy is that where they make a product, they sell it, and then when you come up with something creative, they take that and then they sell that again. That's the circular economy. All proceeds go to rise against hunger. Couldn't they just give the money right to them? Thank you, thank you, instead of like turning it into this whole whatever, this is, whatever gestures wildly and everything. Okay, that's ridiculous, thank you, Okay, ridiculous,

Thank you, Elizabeth, I got something for you. Ridiculous And I stressed that, oh yeah, oh yeah. I mean there have been many things poised to ruin America in the course of our hundreds of years of existence. I mean so many things that we can list. It wouldn't people worried and claimed this is going to threaten the young of America, ruin the fabric of our society. Today, I'd like to tell you about one of the most sinister, one of the most pernicious threats we've ever survived, Elizabeth.

Are you ready to discuss the life changing threat, the democracy wrecking threat of comic books? Oh wow, this is ridiculous crime A podcast about absurd and outrageous capers. He and cons. It's always murder free and ridiculous. Our story starts. That's when there was the Chicago newspaper that wanted to do the good thing and warrant its readers that quote superman heroics, voluptuous females in scanty attire, blazing machine guns, hooded justice, and cheap political propaganda were to be found

on almost every page. What mind you could they be talking about? Of course I've already told you the answer. Comic books. Now, this writer, this is talking to in America right before World War Two. This is a different America than America we know of right. This is a isolationist America. This is a America that was basically had its head turned inward, if you will, from the world and comic books was one of our favorite fantasies for the young and you know, for the young at heart.

And yet that's scared people. There were these these superman's and these wonder woman's that they just didn't understand what the kids saw in them right now, they compared this to what they did know. And so the newspaper said, and I quote, the old dime novels in which in an occasional redskin bit the dust, were classic literature compared

to the sadistic drivel polaring from the presses today. So a genocide of a whole continent of people is good for children to read about, but somebody in spandex that's ruining them. So just you can see where we're going with all of this. Okay, Now, the children of America, you know, we've often hear this being the you know, there they are the sheep who we have to worry about, these wolves descending upon right Who will protect the kids? What about the kids? Now, this Chicago paper had the

exact same tone that you would recognize today. And I quote, unless we want a coming generation even more ferocious than the present one, parents and teachers throughout America must band together to break the comic magazine. Now, you don't typically hear about the ferocious thirties and forties kids. You know, I think the greatest generally turned out. Okay, from what I understand, I don't know. I mean, I think weren't

they all smoking when they were eleven years old? Yes? Yes, no, I will be honest, I can understand looking back why they may have been a little worried, because, to be all the way real, there were comic books like one of the most popular characters at the time was a character named Lady Satan. Oh, and that sounds bad. Lady Satan, You're like, wait, wait, how can that be good for the kids? Right? But you have to hear her side of the story. Okay, it's actually Lady Satan. It's actually,

it's a whole misunderstanding. It's French lad Now, Lady Satan, a right innocent Lady Satan. Just before she was to be married to become Lady Satan, she and her fiance were on a boat and a boat was attacked by Nazis. Nazis Elizabeth. She survived the boat wreck, but her fiance he did not. He perished, and in her fiance's dying moments, there in the wide expanse of ocean, Lady Satan was born. She swore to defeat the Nazis and Nazism. Lady Satan

Elizabeth is basically the first Antifa superhero. Where are you yelling at look, this is my superhero voice, and I watch you understand these are serious times. So lady Satan, yes, you can see how the parents may get worried about that they hear Satan and yeah, it doesn't sound so hot. Yeah, but I mean, like the same time, right around the same time, you're gonna have the Hell's Angels. It took him at a little while to be afraid of the

Hell's Angels. And they were literally hitting people in the they were literally angels from Hell. Now, this theme of like comic books being the greatest danger to America, obviously it pales in comparison to real fascism. So during the war years and you didn't see any of this talk of like, oh the kids, the fascism and the comic books. Right, But as soon as the war is over, we get right back to it. Time Magazine of all People publishes

another screed against comic books. And ready for this Titleiza, Yes, the title was our comics fascist. I don't know. I was just I'm just I'm just asking questions over here, and then there's yes, no, maybe. So the article featured a bevy of people, but the person that I really focused on was this dude on Walter j onng O n G Right. He was a professor at a small college in Colorado, and he'd been writing articles mostly in

religious things and in local Southwest magazines like Arizona Quarterly. Right, Like in Arizona Quarterly. The headline for his article was Superman is a Nazi. He wasn't like time asking questions. He decided, you know, he just declared so in his article Superman is a Nazi. Ang had argued that quote everything is centered on one man, the leader, the hero, the duce. The herd responses not being on the rational level, this hero does not appeal by argument. He builds on

the herd's dreams. He hypnotizes, thus did Hitler and Mussolini. The Superman of the cartoons is true to his sources. That is a stretch, right exactly. Now he's totally like, you know, people worry about like Antiva. Now he was

like worried about FAFA or whatever whatever it is. He's convinced that kids are gonna go full fascist because of Wonder Woman and Superman, Like, I don't trust this blake, spider Man, Spiderman so on, right, he focuses obviously on Superman, but the real focus for his vim and vigor is Wonder Woman. Because of course he's also summons Yeah you know, you saw it coming. So he says, well, can you guess why Wonder Woman would be a threat to this guy? Yes?

One reason? Um is it? Because what would he claim that the children would be ruined by Wonder Woman by maybe like her? Doesn't she have like an Amazon army spot there it is. It's either that of the Invisible Plane. No, no, he didn't care about the technology so much. It was that one. She swears by Zeus, which is clearly a violation of Judeo Christian gods the Creek. Yeah. Also she praised Afrodity, which, according to On is a hitler write paganism. He needs to get out. He had on his side

the creator of Wonder Woman, William Marston. Not like they weren't on the same side, but William Marston was saying stuff that would make you be like, these people are saying this is yeah basically so William Marston, Uh, well here he's like, finally someone understands Wonder Woman exactly, someone gets what I'm trying to drive back, like, oh no, So basically, you know, theorized that wonder woman is as you pointed out about this Amazonian matriarchy, and that's a threat, right.

But Marston had said in his own quote that and I quote men actually submit to women now. They do it on the sly with a sheepish grin because they're ashamed of being ruled by weaklings. Give them an alluring woman stronger than themselves to submit to, and they'll be proud to become her willing slaves. Marston, Man, come on over here. I love how everything has to be like one or the other. Oh yeah, no, totally. So Marstin is basically going, yeah, Feminazis are good. This guy's alongs

every here's going man, Feminazis are coming. But they both agreeem the future. So this future America did look bleak. And so by nineteen fifties, all this tension that was bubbling up in the forties starts to come to a rock and royal and bubble. Right now, we know in the fifties we think of, oh, that's when all the conformity culture is there, and that's when you have the red scares. Well, there were more than one moral panic, and you end up having things like this TV show

called Confidential File, which was hosted by serious journalist Paul Coates. Elizabeth, can you imagine what Paul Coates who had to say in nineteen fifty five to the American people about comic books based on what you've heard up till now. And he's trying to go past that, he's going past the Nazi thing. Well, you know, I would say past the Nazi thing. That's its own little thing. But the basic the idea of America be afraid of comic books. Look

what they're doing to the kids. Do you think there's subliminal messages? Basically, his idea is that the real problem is not the comic books, it's you, the American people. Of course, so he's like, this problem is going on, why does it exist? And he says, the undesirable comic books haven't disappeared from the news stands of this country. Why. I'll tell you exactly why, Because no action has been taken by the most powerful influence in America, the people you. So, Elizabeth,

I gotta ask you, why don't you protect to America? Like, why won't you just get off your duff and do something? Because I'm tired, tired? Well, you know, I have no answers for you other than it's up to you. Like the with the forest, it's the same thing I'm telling you. If it's anyway, you get the point. I take care of myself. This is the problem. And On was right.

So this dude, this serious journalist, Paul Coats, right, he starts warning people about the economies that the kids are using to get these comic books, because he says, look, the kids aren't buying them all. They buy one comic book and then they spread them around by sharing them with their friends, so they end up reading ten comic books, but they only buy one. So the numbers are misleading.

So there's a black market out there that he's telling people parents mostly to be worried about that their kids are like, you know, pushing comic books to each other, like you'll, like a gateway drug pushers. We don't want him to read. Oh oh, I'm glad you bring that up. Because there's this scene where Paul Series Paul Coats, he has this the audience has to watch this group of ten and eleven year old boys. They all they're all

from different ethnicities, economic stations. But it's mid fifties America, so they're all in like the big cuff blue jeans and the striped shirts, all running out of their houses and out of their like tenement homes. And they go and they run to this place that gets under a tree, and then under this big tree we see and I quote when I was a boy and played with the gang,

we did a lot of things. We roasted potatoes, went on expeditions, We tipped over garbage cans now, and then we wrote nasty remarks about the teacher on the sidewalk. We never spent an afternoon sitting around like this reading potatoes. No, but he's talking about these kids are reading, and he says, and they continue, but they're not reading anything constructive. They're reading stories devoted to adultery, to sexual perversion, to harra

to the most despicable of crimes. Sir, you weren't reading anything. You were potatoes and knocking over trash. Cand He's mad these kids are reading that. He's literally making the should I be reading? So at this point in this news footage, we see this little kids. He's the tiniest kid in the group. He gets picked up by all the others and they fly him around. Then they like hold him against a tree. Then they pull out like matches and

try to burn them. Then they pull out a pocket knife and they're gonna cut him in serious journalist Paul Coates is like, I'm not suggesting that comic books and still violence in the minds of these boys. I've never heard any responsible person to suggest that. What I am suggesting is that crime and horror comic books simulate outbursts of destructive violence that might otherwise have been channeled into

much less anti social activity like potato roasting. Exactly, Coats, Dude, I bet you he looks like he choose on his own to nails completely. He ended the big scene with games like this have ended in death many times. It's very fifties games, which is tossing the rent. They have the knife there, holding knife up to the kids like face, and they're like taunting him with his pen knife. And he's like, games like this have ended his death many times.

But then the last thing I'll tell you about this, dude, Paul Coo, he has these these panels of experts, and so he invites these people to tell American parents and school teachers why it's so dangerous. So the first expert he talks. He was this guy, David Freeman, tell me

how comic books make you feel? Dave. Now, Dave, mind you is an eleven year old boy, and saying will make a couple of times you got I threw up, Oh god, that's what he's got right, that's kids scare tactic or is this one of those I talked to my three year old son and he said pretty much, you know the the hierarchy of capitalist society. Like then know that kids? No three year old he's got to

get on camera and he's saying, kids clearly been coached. Okay, My question for you simple, Elizabeth, If not you, who will save the children of America from Superman and Wonder Woman, Blake Spiderman. Yeah. Well, after this break, I'm gonna tell you who will save America? And it ain't you. That was a bit before the break. I asked you who other than you should America turn to in order to save the children? Not that coats Man? Yeah? And uh. In our one corner we had serious journalist Paul Coates,

and in the other corner we had Lady Satan. I trust Lady Satan quite frankly. Well, I'll let you know that America chose differently. America turned its hopeful eyes to a team of geriatric men, many of whom were kids in the eighteen hundreds. That's right, the U. S. Senate Subcommittee on Comic Books in four and so many of them were born in the comic books. Yes, think of Joseph McCarthy's Red Scare, But for kids it was the

social event of the season. All the all the materials written in cran with like a backwards letter, every money. I don't need that piece of paper. Our center stage character taking the role of Joseph McCarthy is Senator Estes Key father from Tennessee. Wait was his name Keith fab It sounds like you're you don't know how to say it's he was keeping? Sorry, do you know your home

last name? Yes? That can't read it right here somewhere, Now keep father, he may find comic books his personal key father k father f au v e a ke ke kee father. Now keep he had for his star witness Mr Dr Frederick Wortham, Dr Frederick Dr Frederick Wortham, child psychologist. Was he a child? Like how it is? A child? Made me throw up? I'm Dudie Howser is based on me. So, I know he in a Harlem

hospital and he treated under privileged children. And his research was integral to more than one nineteen fifty four media sensation, not just this case, but also for the Brown versus the Board of Education. He was integral to establishing a legal argument for why segregation was wrong. So this guy was like about it. At this time, people were listening

to him often in Washington, right. So at that same time he was out, you know, in Washington at this point to testify on Capitol Hill about how the children's souls are being poisoned by lady Satan. So he was an early and vocal advocate for children's well being and uh, he also advocated for poor children. He was known for arguing for mentally challenged children as well, because he wanted all of them to be able to receive wait for it,

fair criminal trials. Wow. Okay, wow, he just whipped the run out from He didn't want any children not to have a fair criminal for the prison industrial content exactly. So he wrote a book called Seduction of the Innocent, and he made some wild claims, as one does when they want to sell a book like his, and he said such things that Superman, which is an anti American fascist, which we've kind of covered. He also made claims about Batman and Robin They hitting it. They dating, aren't they? Yeah,

they're a couple right now the whole chapter. And I don't know what's going on with you. So Wortham is our star witness for the Senate sub Committee, and Elizabeth, I would like you to close your eyes and picture it. I will. Okay, year you're in Washington, d C. You're a hungry beat reporter, just a cub reporter sent by your editor to meet with First Lady Mamie Eisenhower. Did I get one of those cool hats? This has pressed the tag and it can just for the sake of

the I can imagine it better. Could you do a quick impression that made me? Eisenhower? For me? Oh, I do a really good meaning do? Okay? I thought I have to heard you say that. Okay, hey, that that is me? Maybe it is? And how I get out of my way I'm driving the car. It's amazing. It's like Ike's ghost would be confused. Yeah, it's if I do say so of myself. It's on. I'mcanny. So as you now are well aware that's the voice of the

lady who you are sent to cover, Mamie Eisenhower. And you're there to ask about beautiful voice so amazing they talked to about garden parties and the lunches with the ladies of the Beltway. And on your way to meet Mamie Eisenhower, you see this like gathering of crowd as melee a hullabaloo outside the Capitol Hill. Being a reporter, you're like, what's going on over there? I got a nose for news. Yes you do. Girls, So you go head and over and you part through the crowd because

you're all business. You're right into the Capitol and then soon enough you're carried by this way of enthusiasm and action right into the Senate floor and actually you're above it. You're in the Senate Gallery. They wouldn't let you onto the Senate flower right there. Give me, give me that gabble like meanwill. There's a kid there who's testifying on

these comic books. Made me feel funny inside. So you go and find your seat in the Senate Gallery, the seats above you know, the rotunda, and uh, this raucous subcommittee is going on underway. You have Chairman Robert Hendrickson banging his gabble. He's making pronouncements about his subcommittee hearing

and what the purposes will be. And then Chairman Hendrickson he gives the floor to the Senator Esther's key Fall and he lays out the stakes of this case and I quote the subcommittee is looking into violations of various federal laws such as the Dire Act, the Man Act, violation of interstate commerce, and in connection with the subject matter. Now, Senator est key Fall hands it up for the press for all of you in the gallery. Right, you're like the Dire Act, the Man Act? What could he be

talking about? What danger is America facing? And he keeps mentioning kids with the Man Act. Now, Senator that's his key Father is not done. He's also gonna do a little bit of name and names so that people know how serious he is. So Senator key Father and a quote.

Mr Jack Hoover's report of yesterday shows that where as the increase of population last year was five percent, crime had gone up twenty and a particularly large increase was in connection with burglar reis and stealing the Automobile's interesting part is that the large part of the burglaries are committed by juveniles. Juveniles, Elizabeth, juveniles. Now Senator s his key father takes a moment and refreshes his Southern linguistics. You recognize this is a dramatic pause, just for the

news cameras to get a close up of him. Right, your reporter instincts are fully piqued. You're still wondering what the Man Act and the Dire Act is going on right now? You, since you're a good reporter, you know, oh, that the Dire Act is the nineteen federal law that prohibits interstate commerce of stolen vehicles. You take a stolen vehicle over state lines, boom, in violation of the Dire Actor. Okay, that explains the juveniles with the cars. Yeah, where does

the Man Act come in? Because being the cub reporter that you are, Elizabeth, sitting here in two you may be confused. I don't know if you know the Man Act. But mid century Elizabeth, she knows that that is in direct reference to the white slave trade. Yep, so Plucky reported that you are You're like white slave trade in comic books. I'm not seeing it, Senator, But the Senator is not answering questions to you, miss Elizabeth, so he doesn't have to tell people what the man act in

the white slave trade has to do with comic books. Instead, he just insinuates the senators. They go and they ask him, but, sir, sorry, what about a growl and Poe, which is that I was a boy used to read the stories of that growland Poe. And he's like, well, yeah, Now, some of the senators they're like, you know when I like dead around poh, there were stories about, you know, all sorts of crimes and criminality, but none of the boys went around like walling up the neighbor kid in the basement.

I don't see the issue. What's changed for today's kids? Right? Good questions, super solid question, and luckily we have Dr Worth them here to answer it. It is said that children from secure homes are not affected, Mr Chairman, As long as the crime comic books industry exists in its present form, there are no secure homes. You cannot resist infantile paralysis in your home alone. You must take into account the neighbors children. You see, it's not just you

the neighbors. Wait, aren't most of these comic book cats crime fighters? Yeah? But you have to have a crime to fight it, don't you. And so they're worried that these kids are focused on the crime, doing things hope that Superman comes down, and they're getting the message. Here's citizen snapped a woman entire up on to the railroad tracks like the case they want to do that, trying to summon that they don't want any kind of copycat crimes like no using your X ray vision goggles kids.

So Elizabeth, mid century Elizabeth knows where I'm coming from in this everything. Yeah, but when you know nothing, you may hear the words of Dr Wortham and be confused. But I'll just lay out another quote for you. Mid century Elizabeth would get this, okay, but you try to stick with me. And Mortham said, and I quote. I would like to point out to you one other crime comic book we have found to be particularly injurious to the ethical development of children, and those are the Superman

comic books. They arouse in children fantasies of sadistic joy in seeing other people punished over and over again while you yourself remain immune. We have called it the Superman complex. So there's your answer, joy and punishment. He's punishing the criminals. You're stoked because it's not you, because you're not a criminal. I don't think you see a future of It's right there in front of you, don't you see it, Superman, Uberman, Deutschland, Deutschland,

It's right there. It's just a road to fascism. You know what I have to say to that lady Satan Satan, Well, he wants you to know that. And I quote Dr Wortham. In these comic books, the crime is always real. Then Superman's triumph over good is unreal. More Over, these books, like any other, teach complete contempt of the police. For instance, they show you pictures where some preacher takes two policemen

and bangs their heads together. Or to quote from all these comic books, you know, you can call a policeman a cop and he won't mind. But if you call him copper, that is a derogatory term. And these boys, we teach them them to call policemen coppers. I just can And you're not ready for there's such a logic

chasm going on here. Oh dude, Well, the thing is it's like, Okay, my mother was alive and fifties, and I remember a joke that she told me from this time she was a schoolgirl, and she used to have a joke when they be sitting there at the school bus stop at a Coppa drive by. One of the kids just would shout, what are old pennies made out of? And these kids are all like seven eight. They would look at the cop and Yale dirty copper. Right, So

that that is like what he's basically describing. My mother went on to become a school teacher. I don't think that she read a lot of Lady Satan. She loved Ladies saying that's her favorite. She's got a poster still up in her room. Whatever your postings. So Senator to Kei Faba is not like Keith's like, you know this guy dr Worthing while I brought in, he's stealing up all the crazy air. I need to get some of

this from myself, right. So he's like, if I'm gonna get any the headlines, I'm gonna need to move beyond this whole fascism Nazis. We beat the Nazis, We got new concerns. So what does he do? He pushes it down the road, Senator to Kei Faba, and I quote while you're on that subject, Dr Wortham, mass see that thing. Anybody who opposes comic books is a red Dr Wortham, Yes, that is a that is part of it. Because the comic book industry that apparently accused Dr Wortham of being

a communist, which is patently so. Ender Kiefab and then says, you know what, I'm not done. We need to get this two man crazy train further down the tracks. Next up Hitler. He's like, back it up, sir, Senator Kiefab, would you like in this situation you talk about showing that same thing over and over again until they finally believed it to what we heard about during the Last War of Hitler's theory that they tell the same story over and over again. Now, Chairman Hendrickson, he jumps in,

he's like the big lie technique. Dr Wortham jumps on the spot. Well, I hate to say that, Senator, but I think Hitler was a beginner compared to the comic books industry. They get the children much younger, and they teach them race hatred at the age of four before they can even read. The train is so far off the rail detritus. So can mid century Elizabeth go down and just start slapping slap sense into him. Is Keifa sounds sounds like the way you're doing it, sounds like

he lives on just drinking water down molasses. This is full sustenance. Pretty close throwing a little, maybe little whiskey in that water. I just this is making no sense. Well, Elizabeth, so confused. So not only are Wonder Woman and Superman teaching the American children to hate cops, and they're also primed for fascism and they have the whole race hatred in their hearts and they're looking around for a new hitler.

But they're also against America. So not only are they supporting fascism, but they're not down for mom and dad and apple Pie. I don't think you understand this. Absolutely did not understand that we're going to take a short break, and after the short break, we're going to meet the man who's willing to stand up for comic books and your Lady Satan. Now, Elizabeth, you're up on Capitol Hill, sent there to meet with the Lady Maymie Eyes and our first lady Mamie Eyes. Yes, and you spotted that

hullabaloo going down. You went into the Senate, you saw the Senate Subcommittee. You saw Dr Wortham and he's still waiting. Well, you're still in the Capitol rotunda, and you're still in the Senate Chambers, and you're still in the gallery in time to see William Gaines are anti Hero take the stage. He is the publisher of Intertaining Comics Group. Okay you may not know them now, but they were the first comic book company, essentially, and it's a family company, one

that he's now inherited from his dad. And under his new young leadership, he's decided, let's do horror comics. Why not? I love those. I don't want some more crime stories. And so he's making stories that are not just for young kids, but for teens and for young adult readers. He's basically doing y A before it exists. Okay, it

becomes wildly successful, especially the horror comics. He also prints biblical comics, horror horror like Scary not not horror comics, sex worker comics Elizabeth for the children, no horrors stories with sex workers. It's Mary Magdalen series of thought. It was like Horrors going up. You gotta love a horrors bath. No, all of us in this show. We support the Hols

not my pro sex worker. We all know this. No, this guy, William Gaines, he's unafraid to speak his mind because he's unafraid of the imagination of the American kids. He's also unafraid of a row of old geriatric senators. He's young, he's got all sorts of confidence. Also, he's high on speed. Yeah, so well, he had the scheduled senate testimony, so he got hopped up on some like some speed pills, right, and they rescheduled and pushed him

after lunch. Now the speed is draining out of as system and he's going through amphetamine withdrawals when he takes this day a little bit of a comedown. So how I like you to focus on this young, cocky, thirty two year old comic book air publisher with a nasty speed. And so Mr Gaines introduces himself and a quote, I'm here as a voluntary witness. I asked for and was given this chance to be heard. Two decades ago. My late father was instrumental in starting the comic magazine industry.

He edited the first few issues of the first modern comic magazine, Famous Fundies. My father was proud of the industry. He helped found he was bringing enjoyment to millions of people, right. So he starts solid, he's like, look these are this is family name dropping. Yeah, exactly, I'm about this. I was first where were you then? You know? So he then admits he's like, look, I'm culpable and I quote I am responsible. I started them. Some may not like them.

This is a matter of personal taste. And what he's referring to is the horror comic books that are really offending people. Right. And while he's at it, he also wants to take a little shot at a Dr Wortham. So he says it would be just as difficult to explain the harmless thrill of a horror story to a doctor Wortham as it would be to explain the sublimity

of love to a frigid old maid. Exactly. Someone came loaded for better, So young dude, games, He's like, you know, the Senate Subcommittee of Geriatrics and your whatever your hound dog, Dr Wortham, I am afraid of this, right, So he starts launching into society, being being a citizen in a free society. What does this mean? Right? And I quote, Our American children are for the most part, normal children.

They are bright children. But those who want to prohibit comic magazine seem to see dirty, sneaky, perverted monsters who use the comics as a blueprint for action. What are we afraid of? Are we afraid of our own children? Do we forget? They are citizens too, and entitled to select what to read or what to do. We think our children are so evil, simple minded that he takes a story of murder to set them to murder, a

story of robbery to set them to robbery. So you see, he's trying to like, basically breathe a little reality back proceedings right, how great? How well do you think it goes? Not too well? Well, unfortunately I know how these things. He doesn't give up because now he makes his real, solid, timeless point, which is the truth, is that delinquency is the product of real environment in which the child lives, and not of the fiction he reads. There are many

problems that reach our children today. They are tied up with insecurity. No pill can cure them, no law will legislate them out of being. The problems are economic and social, and they are complex. Are people need understanding? They need to have affection, decent homes, decent food. Now these pleas that he's throwing before the sentence up committee, They're like, none of these are good for headlines, none of these are good for firing up my base. So I'm going

to ignore everything you're saying. And they do. Right. So the this falls on deaf ears right now as the amphetamine is draining away from his brain because he's on a good roll at first, right, he's still on a good head of speed going. And then it pretty much starts to like just you can watch like they level

in his eyes falling down. Right, So by this point he's about half eye level full of speed, right, and uh, he starts making mistakes right because he's now that after he makes his opening remarks, the sanators you can start questioning him, and that three starts stepping into all sorts of potholes, and uh, one of the first things that he says it's a big mistake is and I quote, my only limits are the bounds of good taste. What I consider good taste. That's gonna go. Yes, So they

jump on this good taste into Senator estes Key fall. Yeah, he sees this as his opportunity, seizes on it, and he's like picks up a comic book starts waving it around. He's like his May twenty second issue. This seems to be a man with a bloody axe holding a woman's head up which has been severed from her body. Do you think that is in good taste? Now gains, he's got to be like, yes, sir, I do for the cover,

for the cover of a horror comic. Yeah, A cover in bad taste, for example, might be defined as holding the head a little higher so that the neck could be seen dripping blood from it, and moving the body over a little further so that the neck of the body could be seen to be bloody. And Senator key fob is uh, you have blood coming out of her mouth a little, Senator and Senate kei fab here is blood on the axe. I think most adults are shocked by that. And boom, here's the rub. What obsets us

most adults is not what upsets most kids. And this is what they're basically arguing. Games is like, the kids see this as ludicrous. You're the only ones who are like that could be my head on that right A right, So the Senate Subcommittee, it just keeps going off the rails. Games is allowed to leave and they kind of like realize that they're not going to be able to scare the American people. They want it last two days. They have another hearing in June. So the first ones are

twenty second another June one boom. The summer happens. Kids are let out, So now you're not gonna be able to scare the parents anymore. You don't really want to scare them because they're out where they can't see them. Really good and useful when they were school children, and you could be like wagging a finger right now the comic book code. Though they're worried about their wallet. We gotta get on this. Come up with the comic book code.

And the comic book code is this this stamp you can put on a comic book that says it's following all these rules which the comic book publishers come up with where they can self police. I think they come up with his rules, Elizabeth. I don't know the height of the head, dripping blood on the cover. I sympathize on behalf of all those to drop gross outs all the time, right, you know, it's like, look, I'm being cartoonish, being cartoonishes when I say gross things on this show.

In my head, it's a it's a cartoon, um, but some people hear it and take it very literal. Send it as to key, father has issue. What you do, Ms Elizabeth? I got issues with him. I'll see him outside, I'll see him after class. So the couple, I'll just run you out a couple of There's a lot of rules, but they basically go into like, one crime, She'll never be presented in a way as to create sympathy for the criminal, blah blah blah. Another one policeman judges government

officials and respecting institutions. She'll never be presented in such a way as to create disrespect for established authority. Blah blah blah. Wait, how bootstepping is okay? Well, exactly criminals should not be presented as to be rendered glamorous. Right, yeah, exactly. So they apparently they think children are dumb and they're gonna be like, oh, we gotta make sure kids aren't confused. I don't know, like kids are savviier than a generally.

My mother always used to tell me that you're you're at your absolute smartest at eight years old. Yes, I would completely agree. You're paying the most attention and for me Downhill peaked at five. Oh well, I feel for you girl. The comic codes, right, they don't just have rules for just for the heroes and heroines about like oh, for crime. It's also about how they live because it's the fifties, so there's rules like if case Superman gets a divorce, here's how you show it. Right, divorce shall

not be treated humorously nor represented as desirable. But it's so funny it is and desirable. And there's also like the like romance stories, right, because like what if you know, before Superman gets divorce, he's got to have some love time. So he and Lois are like having their love time. I'm trying to put this in, senator asked his key. Father's right, Well, you have to emphasize the value of

the home and the sanctity of marriage. I don't know if they mean the economic value of the home or just like like it feels good to own a home in the ladder. Yeah, they're championing homeownership, Like what kind of like what interest rates are we getting these years? Kids?

Do you know the answers you should One rule that was prominently listed amongst these guidelines, which seems to have fallen somehow out of favor with all these other ones, like respect the law, don't show criminals are bad, you know, don't show Superman getting a divorce and being happy about it. Here's the one rule that they left out because it's in there. It's like high up on the list. Females shall be drawn realistically, without exaggeration of any physical qualities. Yeah,

they really stuck to them. So you know, I'm not complaining. As a former teenage boy, I'm not complaining. I was like, look, I get it. I can see why you did. I bought the comics, none of them. None of them had stretch marks. Wonder Woman was hiper stripes, Elizabeth Well. When all was said and done right coming out of the fifties, the comic code basically saves the comic industry, and then all these small publishers and independent publishers, the big ones emerge.

We get d C Comics, which was originally Action Comics becomes DC. Marvel Comics emerges, and you get these people like your familiar names, Stanley, Jack Kirby. They come out and they become the comic book industry. Will stan Lee end up having to battle with this dude, doctor Wortham for much of his early career, and even in his autobiography he takes a couple of shots to Dr Wortham, and I quote to me, Wortham was a fanatic, pure

and simple. I used to debate with him, which was fun because I usually won, but that was rarely publicized. He once claimed he did a survey that demonstrated that most of the kids in reform schools were comic book readers. So I said to him, if you do another survey, you'll find that most of the kids who drink milk are also comic book readers. Should we band milk? His arguments were patently sophistic and they're I'm being charitable, But

he was a psychiatrist, so people listened. Yeah. So the thing, though, that really saved comic books wasn't all this hype and everything.

It was TV. Interestingly enough, Sam was a huge hit on t V. So fromift, Superman's a hit, and eventually that meant that the Human Torch and Captain America and all these familiar comic books, Wonder Woman, they all get new runs in the fifties, right, and we see that the superhero starts to become a staple of American culture, which I know you love because you're always like, hey, there's a new comic book movie. When can we go the comic book culture? No idea what any of those

things are. I'm not hearing you say them because you will missmash them together. What's with the Flashman? Is that new movie coming out? Dr? Flashman? Lake, spider Man, A local Dentists. So the Hollywood movies, the streaming which you love, all the superheroes, we wouldn't have any of that without this big period in time in the late fifties, early sixties, and the specifically one hero saved comic books. And it's not Superman, not Batman, not wonder Woman, none of the

ones you would think of. And you guess who it was saved comic books. I don't know if you will because you don't really like comic books. Was it? The Hulk? Little not a bad guess? The Flash Slash? Different Flash? But this is the Flash with the article in front. That's Flash. Gordon Cousins, Yeah, sure, yeah, what's the same you were? I like that? Yeah, the Merciless says, so so sure, Yeah, I have no idea. Okay, anyway, So the Flash it's like this hero for the Atomic Age.

So everybody's like all super cool, Flash Slash the fastest, runs, real fast, red outfit. Okay, but like like the Flash, like I am become death destroyer of world. Not that one. No, no, not the no, not the Oppenheimer everything like No, So the Flash is popular. Let's just pretend, you know, runs real fast a flash like I can see that flash go by there you Okay, So now you're with me. I got it, I got it. Flash is so popular

because because he's a young hero, he's a teenager. So then we get Spider Man, your guy, and then the Fantastic Four and Mute to Spider Man in the top, the Temptations X Men. So yeah, now there's one other force that really helped cement the superhero era into what we know of it today. Do you know can you guess who that was? Who was a real person? You know this person personally? I often mentioned them, I know him personally or no. Dick Nixon, Oh yeah, yeah, Dick Nixon, Man,

Dick Nixon the years nineteen seventy. Nixon's like, hearing about all this kerfuffle about comic books, he just keeps kicking along and so the comic Codes. He's like, you know what, I think we need to get a message out to the kids. They still read comic books, right, Well, he calls up Marvel. He calls up Stanley's like, I want you to put out a comic book. And he's like, okay, Dick Nixon, what do you want me to put out the comic book? Drugs? Nixon wants a drug storyline in

a Marvel comic book. He's like, I don't know if I can do that. So he goes to the comic Codes. He's like, look, President Nixon's on my case. He wants a storyline about drugs. And they're like, you can't do that. Don't fall for it. It's a trap. He's trying to. It's Nixon, He's tricky. Don't do it. Danley's like, I trust him. He called me on my home phone. It's fine. Nixon's like, stand any update on the drug comic book. I really want to read it. And so Stanley's like,

goes back to comic Code. We gotta do this, Like you can't do it. So he's like, I'm doing it. So Stanley decides to do it anyway, takes the comic book Code off the front of comic book puts out his drug storyline in a Spider Man comic book, very famous one, and it's all about like drugs, and Nixon's just store like great story. It's like the Flash injecting doobies and no Spider Man, no injecting doobies, no snorting rails of the pot. So wait, does Spider Man get

a pill? Heaven? He's all sparkle nealy. It's like, I'll piste off. Spider Man needs to go go choose if you want any crome fought around there. Spider Man's hopped up on goofballs and he hasn't a gym. Spider Man in a mood to fight Criner unless he gets a little bit for Spider Man sub scratching. So uh, the other one. DC gets jealous. They like, we want Dick Nixon to like us too, so that they do a

drug plotline the next year. It's about Green Harrow's buddy Speedy and he gets a heroin Habit slows it down. I didn't see that coming. You're like Speedy, I know, loved it. Great comic book and sonictions all excited. So by two thousand one, all of this like Nixon's gone, so we don't anymore. The Comic Book Code is on its last legs because Marvel pulls out and says, look, we don't need this Comic book Code nonsense anymore. That's

some mid century like fossil stuff. And we're going full frontal DCS like we're going to stick with you, and Archie Comics is we're still with you. So Archie Comics they stay for another ten years, about two thousand and eleven, they're like, okay, sorry, we had to go. And so then everybody leaves, Comic Code becomes defunct and Goofus and Gallant are standing there all but exactly Ghost was just so I don't want to leave you wondering. But Senator st is Key fob, Yeah happen to him. You're like,

what happened? Did he ever make anything of himself? I don't remember that name? Well, Elizabeth, he did run for president because I told you comic books were an easy headline. He wanted all that press. Well, it was because he was looking at he was I in the big office in Washington. So in fifty six he goes as VP, gets on the ticket with Adelai Stevenson, another name. A

lot of people probably don't know. He lost Big T and to so Dick and Ike beat the pants off of Senator Estes, Key Fable and Adela Stevenson Round his sorrows and his molasses. Now the big winner and all of this is publisher William Gaines and his speed habit. Remember him. So during his speed fueled fight on Capitol Hill he decided, you know what, this is not the business for me, and he left comic books pretty much like the next year and he said, to hell with

the comic books code. I can see the future. I don't want a part of it right now. Can you guess what he got into? Porn? Good kiss? Practically, not exactly. He did found a new era in publishing. He became the publisher for Mad magazine. In his new magazine, he openly mocked all of the powers that be Washington everywhere. And it was a wildly popular magazine for decades and a big part of the underground culture that would come to flourish in the sixties and the sevenies. So he

got his wish. He was still hyping the kids, and then by then it was the teenagers, and so he was getting them to like not go to war and all the things. So he really was able to continue his fight. So William Gaines kept at it. Wow, So we probably wouldn't have Mad Magazine if it weren't for and so that's key father. You're welcome withsable thanks to So what's our ridiculous takeaway from today? Comic books and drugs? Dude?

I don't know. My ridiculous takeaway is that I get so frustrated with illogical arguments like this that I just shut down. And then also, and I know absolutely nothing about comic books, I know, So I like telling you this one. I was like waiting for you to be like, wait, is the thing? And this is because you like the thing? Right, I don't know, does he even want? You? Like the Hulk? No? I don't really. You know what I like is the

What's the Hammer Guy? Yeah? I like the funny the funny hammer Guy movies, Funny the ones that I haven't you only seen one of them? Yeah? So the funny Hammer Guy movie. Yeah, the funny Hammergui movie. I pluralized that I should not have And I think I've seen the Robert Downey Jr's Iron Man. Yeah, that's not one of those. The night in the metal suit guy. Yeah, I feel I like a good redemption story, so like Robert Downey Junior's redemption story. Not iron Man, but Robert

even a personal story. I don't remember what happened in the movie. Gwyneth Paltrow is in it, and I just you know, I'm not, no, not not into the group nation No, but I do like funny hammers. Well, I'm so happy for you, the Senator as just keepab could be a small pot. You'll have a news for me,

And I'm glad you asked, Elizabeth. They were concerned about comic books because they thought they were too dangerous for kids, right, and they're worried about like, oh, they imagined all these horns, right, So really they were afraid of their own imaginations and that the comic book publishers were focused on making more marketable,

squeaky clean comic book heroes. Eventually, they ended up making the world that we now have because they said these are not good, Whereas if they let them just do what they would have done, the market would have most likely changed and we may not be in this comic book drent culture we live in. So they did the ultimate streisand effect. Where they were like complained about it so much it took over the culture. And no thanks

Sena to Usk. Just key fall. When they're cutting funding so that we have like falling literacy rates, we don't have adequate education. We're not giving kids a sense of curiosity in their schoolwork. And the one thing that they're doing on their own time of reading, they're engaging with they're excited about, you know, having like expanse of curiosity, and they'll squash it. Yeah, let's let's not have them engagement. We have to the American mind. They're malleable. Now I'm

getting all frustrating. If you have a moral panic right away, you have failed. And I know that people are like, what do you mean moral panic? Moral panics are essentially a good thing. We have to have morals. That's not what I'm talking about. The panic is the problem because they're dealing with a made up problem. Because you don't need to send it subcommittee to solve these types of problems. That's just theater. I mean, that's just purely for senders.

Is key fall. But to run for president, right, but if something is really a big bad monster is concerned, it is going to threaten America, or just let's just make it more personal. It's going to threaten you, right, No one needs to work hard to scare you, because if it is a real threat, like let's say it's fire, all you need to do is point out the fire and say fire, and the person knows like you have if you have respect for a person, we know what

endangers us. Now, people like, oh, well, what about climate danger? People are arguing about that. I'm not talking about I'm talking about clear eminent dangers that where people are talking about this is going to happen, And they're arguing as if this is happening right now, They're not talking about down the road. I'm saying, these people are talking about panics the way they often do, and then we have

to take action right now. And when they do that, what do we get more comic book movies because the moral panic wasn't the problem. Yeah, they're ruining independent filmmaking. I think we need to convince them that books are ruining America, and we can see if we can say publishing. I don't know if that can be done. I don't think they can. Publishing is ruining publishing. I know there's multiple problems here. I'm not a senator and I've never

played one. Anyway, that's my story for Elizabeth. Thank you, Thank you for sharing that. That was really lovely. That's all I have for you. Well, thank you for joining us. I am Elizabeth Zarin Burnett, I'm the Flash. You can find us online at Ridiculous Cron, on Twitter and on Instagram. You got a tip for us, well, just write a postcard, send it to your local police station and tell them to contact us. Try sending it general delivery to Ridiculous Crime, Oakland,

California and see that anyway. Well, we'd like to hear about your crime, so emails. That's probably the best way you can do it at ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com. Yes, thanks for listening, Catch you next time. Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and Zarin Burnett, produced and edited by Jack Kirby truth Or Dave Kustin, researches by our star witness for the Ridiculous Crime Senate Subcommittee, Marissa Brown. Our theme song is by Dr Doom's beatmaker Thomas Lee

and Spider Man's former DJ Travis Dutton. Executive producers are Ben I'm wonder Woman Boland and No Wait No, I wanted to be Wonder Woman Brown Say It one More Time. Dequeous Ridiculous Crime is a production of I heart Radio four more podcasts. My heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.