In every generation there have been revivals. Massive moves of the spirit that changed the course of history. In every revival, there were believers like you who chose to answer the call to become the one in their generation. Discover your call to be the one in your generation. Welcome back to Revival Radio. TV. I'm Gene Bailey, along with my special guest, Roberts Liardon, Roberts. Good to have you back. This is not revival radio today. It's revival chat.
I think it's a revival chat because we we love to talk and we're going to go by 18 different directions at once. So where are we going to start today is with the ministry of John G. Lake. Our friend Joe Martin recently wrote a book on the Miracle Ministry of John G. Lake. So let's just dive in. Roberts what stands out to you the most about John? I have my idea, my thing that I like. What stands out to you about him? I think one thing for me is the 100,000 documented miracles in five years.
A 100,000? A 100,000 documented. Now, that's not his whole life ministry. That was just five years of the healing rooms in Spokane. So to have something documented like that, 100,000 documented miracles in five years where Spokane was declared the healthiest city in America at that time, and the mayor included his appreciations to John Jakes healing rooms in his address to the city.
So that was significant to me that the healing ministry affected the city, were declared by the national government. They have this in America. And because of John G. Like so many rooms in the city. How do we know the 100,000 are documented? Because his ministry documented them? Well they did when you went to the hearing rooms. It's like going to the doctor, right? So you had different rooms and they were healing technicians, I call them, or the people who like it trained to administer healing.
They were out of a school and you went into one of the rooms and they sat down and found your story and wrote it down. They located your faith level and what they felt led by the Lord to tell you do. And they gave you a prescription. So many of these scriptures, so much of there's so much prayer and they begin to walk you through. You come back next week and they walk you through, said they saw you in the beginning and all the way through to the end, and so did the two results.
So that's how they get the figure, 100,000. So it's not just a Christian evangelistically talking that we did. Yeah, exactly. That's that was a big number when I first heard of that no. But when I talked to his daughter Gertrude, she was alive at that time. That's what they did. And so it is a documented story. Isn’t that amazing? 100,000. Is that the way Brother Hagin fashioned his prayer and healing center? He had that.
Well it all started with Dowie with healing homes, to healing rooms to healing school. So kind of those three progressions and that was a book for the Hagin to do that. And he taught a lot of it himself. He was alive. He was he was involved in it. Yeah. Amazing. So there's always the story of John G. Lake. Let's talk about what he had to deal with. He had to deal with the plague, you know the bubonic. Well, there's lots of stuff we can talk about him. Yeah, well let's start. Go on.
Well, when he was young, he was a methodist, and he got in the healing ministry by accident almost. His wife had gotten very ill. I think she was shot is the story. Joe tells that story and he said the telegram of Dowie he says, want it back. She'll live or not die if she gets healed. So the people begin to support him. Well, your wife got healed. You fix my my daughter. So he didn't know what to do.
So he packed all of his bags up with his wife and they moved to Zion and was on the board of the church for a few years before he left because Dowie’s wrong identification in his life. He thought he was Elijah, so he'd begin to go off. That's when Lake left. But the other thing with Lake, he live on a street that across it was at Bosworth. They lived on the same street in Zion. Bosworth was a part of the band. He was a part of the board.
And so part of what comes in can't preach in the city because they don't like tongues and all that stuff. They like healing, but not all that. They go there. So everybody understands. We're not Charles Parham from Topeka, but he they got to the house. I mean, yeah, Charles Parham comes and into the house because he can't do a public meeting but hear about Azusa street and they get on a train and go out to Azusa street.
Like of my Savior, Ready to live in Paradise, I’ll have a new body, Praise the Lord, I’ll have a new life. It has been three glorious services a day, every single day for over three years. You could hear the sounds of angels singing. You walked on the dirt floor of the church, but a ground fog with heavenly smells was everywhere and people walking in it were healed. I heard the Grand Central train station. It was a half mile away.
I saw people get off the train and fall in the spirit, speaking in tongues. The train people said this had been happening all day long. Some said they saw a bloodline around Azusa street, and when you crossed the line, you were healed. People fell to their knees and accept Christ right on the spot. When I turned around to look, I could see the fire coming out the top of the Apostolic Faith mission. Fireballs from heaven came down to meet fire coming up from the building.
It's like the burning bush the Bible talks about. I can hear people shout, I can see or I can hear now. I see lame carried to Azusa and they go dancing out. One night, Elder Seymour prayed for a man with a stump. We all saw this. His arm instantly grew out. It was amazing at first the bone changed like a skeleton, the muscle around it, and even at the tips of were fingertips.
We all just praised There's a great picture that I found in Gertrude Reidt’s photographs or Lake’s photographs of Seymour, Parham, Lake at Azusa street. And that's where they got familiar with the Holy Ghost. And that was the journey there that led him to eventually go to South Africa and build the apostolic faith mission that is still going today. So what's the connection in or is there one with the Welsh revival? Was there.
Because didn't was he talking back and forth to Evan Roberts in the Welsh revival? Well, I don't know if the lake was. Maybe that's something there's something also. But I know that there were people out in L.A. that were corresponding with Evan Roberts. Yeah, because they wanted the revival there. And Evan Roberts would write them and tell them to keep praying and seeking God. So there was that over and back communication.
But when the revival showed up, the people that prayed it in didn't participate in it, which is always an interesting part of revival history. The folks who prayed the revival in, normally turn out against it or don't participate. And the reason for that is they when they pray, they get a picture of what it's going to be like. And it's not always what they're going to be like. It's because even when we pray, we think they felt God's going to answer this prayer.
But we do that naturally and we don't go that way. They resist. And plus, the revival in L.A. at Azusa street was not like the world revival in this sense. It had more of the the Holy Spirit tongues and gifts than Welch did. Yeah. And so that was the conflict. And plus, evangelicals were the ruling Christian body at that time. So can you imagine having a Revival Mission led by an African-American, which was the lowest kind of person in that time in American history? And he was blind in one eye.
And mixed races, and genders all going together. And they're speaking in tongues and and they're vibrant and shaking. You know, we we accept that today. I grew up with that. Sure. With that started. Can you imagine what the presbytery. yeah. So their reaction, you have to understand, is not all just hostility. It was a deep concern that it was error. And so it was very passionate persecution.
And I can imagine people shaking and vibrating and doing trances and that this looks bizarre to these people. So I've had people come to my meetings or meetings like full gospel their first time I get why sometimes are scared or that we're all crazy because it is a whole different ballgame when people are reacting to the spirit is allowed. Wow. Yeah. And well, let's be real.
Even today, there's a lot of those that and there's been a lot of error, you know, that we've seen a lot of error over the years. What is now if you had to nail this down, John G. Lake, where his the man of faith that he was, what do you think contributed to his faith? Because he was the saying is bold doesn't even come close. I mean, he was way out in front, you know, to the you know, what would you contribute that to? I think two things. I think are three.
One, the desperate need of healing that he had in his family. And he got it. So he knew by experience in his own family when he talked about when he was a kid, he was familiar with caskets, funerals, nurses and that because so many of his members died. Yes. So he had the pain of death. The pain of sickness. So that always drives people. How do we solve that when his wife and others begin to get healed? He saw something that was a conviction.
I know this works because my wife was dying, this person and they're not dead. Nothing's happened. So then he sought out who was doing it, which was Dowie at that time. So we learned under the dominant healing evangelist at the time that was greatly successful. He just said he he errored at the end, but he was it was similar to Wigglesworth. And the way that he would ministry was kind of abrupt with people. And so me, those pioneers are abrupt.
So he learned good healing doctrine under and how to do it under Dowie. He had enough individualism to say, Even though I love you Dowie and you are a great man, but you're in error. And he walked out of the error season and kept himself clean and pure. And I think that he was a man of the word. Seeing drove him to Scripture, not to just the practice, but he wanted to find out what the foundation of this. And he built a strong human spirit to go this strong gift, which a lot of people don't do.
They just write the gift and suffer the brunt of. All right, let's expand that a little bit. Writing the gift, you know, break that down. What your gift will work when there's when God gives you a gift, healing, prophecy, or whatever. And there's a demand from the crowd and a demand on the spirit. It'll operate and you'll because it's the gift of God coming through you. And when it shuts down, always finish it.
Does it leave you, but it just goes dormant for you have to do what you have to do privately. Why do healing evangelists die sick? They don't spend time taking care of their personal faith to get their healing themselves. They do things because they rely on their gift. They rely on the gift and they see the gift working for everybody. And they assume it'll work for them. But they have to practice everything that we do privately, right? Just because you have a gift doesn’t mean you're exempt.
And I think like practice. He did what he was supposed to do privately that gave him that kind of strength. People that don't do the private stuff, right, the gift. And one day the gift will become their enemy because then they they can't function without it functioning all the time, because that's how they find their life, their joy, their peace. They built strength, not built were they not built prayer.
So the torture part of what you do under the anointing comes at you privately with the anointing lifted. The hardest time for me as a kid to learn how to do this is what I got them preaching at word explosion. These big events and it's great. And when you get back to the hotel room and it lifts the backlash of what you did under the anointing, you have to deal with out of your own personal strength. If you've not built a strong human spirit, you're are tortured, you won't do things.
This is why guys commit adultery. They get alcohol or drugs. They're trying to find a way to take care of the pressure and you can't do it that way. And that's that's what they do. A lot of guys before they were saved, how did they medicate themselves? How did they get through trials? And if you don't build a strong spirit, you will go back to what you did in the natural to get through that moment of anxiety and pressure. This is what you knew.
Yeah, and that's what happened. So that's why we were riding it. You just you're enjoying the gift. You don't. You're not doing the lifestyle next to the gift. You just ride it and then you're partying, relaxing, and then you've got to come back and say, Listen, if you don't do this, this will torture you and this will cause a problem. So that's how. Describe that. That makes sense. Yeah, it's great.
I think it's up. I think it's really the for those of you watching, this is what you and I need to we have a way of Roberts putting people up on pedestals good or bad. You know, that we want to honor the gift and honor what God does, but we put people on a pedestal not realizing they have to deal with the same issues. So it's a great, great word that you bring it everybody's you and how great your gift is.
They still put their pants on like everybody else and you got to take care of your body, your mind, your spirit, your family, your money, all of that. If you don't take care of it, don't want to have a problem. So is there anyone that comes to mind when we talk about that did it right other than John G. Lake that that was be so you can look at another historical figure Smith Wigglesworth would be one a more recent one we have Hagin which I think we're both familiar with.
He he lived that life very powerfully and he lived it publicly. He would talk about it because I think he was trying to say, Folks, I was aware of the voice of healing. Guys, you should tell us the voice of healing preachers greatest gifts. But then they messed up lives and they only lasted for that revival. They were gone and back soon after that. And he saw that and didn't want that to happen to his followers and to our generation. And he talked about that a lot and he lived that way.
I was around enough of it. I heard Kenneth preach more than any other preacher in my life. I was as a kid. Thank God I did. I'm so glad I was and that I still am. And but he lived that and taught that if people would listen to him talk that way and actually forget all the junk about him all the rumors of it, just hear what he says and do it. You have a great life in ministry. He live that way. And died well. I mean, it is you know, his followers cause some problems, but it wasn't him.
You know, We all have that. Yeah, that's true. So that's where some of the controversies come from. Is that the second voice? People taking things he said to an extreme that he and one thing that Brother Hagin really did well I remember with Jack Coe he because Jack Coe died at 38, but he called him out and said, if you don't stop this, you're you know, you're going to die once or twice or I think I'm trying to get to him. Was in life like anything, it was too late. He wouldn't listen.
Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. It's very sad that people learned how to listen to other people. People don't want to listen to people that are famous. And I have tried to fix it in my life. That is a huge statement. That's so true. People only. Well, because I've known and you and I both know that we won't name people that are they don't submit themselves to somebody because they feel like they're at the top of the game. And probably because of the gift, not because of the walk.
Wow. That's that's a big statement right there. You have to make the adjustment to hear God's voice in anybody's voice. So I don't listen to a certain prophet. I don't have a guy that I'm connected to. If I hear the sound of the sound, the Lord's voice, you know, if I hear it through the granny or the usher or the famous preacher, I listen. So I'm trying to be a to the voice, not to who the voice comes through. So just a thought.
How do we how do people watching they're listening to the going, Yeah, I know that sounds right. How do I learn to listen to that voice? How do I recognize that voice? You learn his voice through the Scriptures first, and then you learn his voice by the inner witness inside and you develop it. Then you could hear it. It took me a while to hear it. Yeah. There was, in fact, a Brother Hagin's book on “How to be Led by the Holy Spirit”.
He's he brings up the point that what worked for him the most was that inward witness called it the inward witness, that voice. You know, that's the way God talked to us today. We all want the audible voice. And that to me is a very rare happening. The inner witness, I think, can become so sensitive inside that the inner witness sounds audible. Right? That's why it sounds audible. But voice heard it so it was more inward than it was outward.
So being sensitive to that is that was going to require how do how do you hear somebody's voice? If I didn't listen to you or talk to you, I wouldn't know when you called it it was you on the other end. Yeah. So that's a really good that's that's a great truth. And God likes to talk. He does like to talk to people. If you just be quiet and listen, he'll talk to you. So basically, I'll tell you something that's shocking. Yeah, well, how? What he says.
So what do we take from before we move on past John G. Lake? What is it that we should take? Well, I think from from from his life, if you had to if you had to sum it all up, what would you take? I think the the development of his private life, the support, his gift that kept him healthy. Got him all the way to the end, I think to a lesson that may be a little more challenging was he had a challenge being a family man. He had a he had wife and had children. His first wife died.
And sometimes ministry pulls you so much. And his daughter, Gertrude said he was a wonderful dad, but we didn't get enough time with him because he was gone a lot. But after his first wife's death, he made some adjustments with that. Still, that pull was in him. So I always there's a second lesson from Lake is because if you don't know the story, his first wife in South Africa died of malnutrition and exhaustion. And so that was very tragic time. His life. He recovered from it.
He made some adjustments. But you told us that he still had the struggle of to go or to stay, which I think every family man does. And so that would be another aspect. So if you want a wife, you’ve got to pick time, have a wife. If you want children, you got to pick time to have children and do that. So it doesn't belittle you. It just means you have to manage things differently and some things you won't be able to do as quick or as fast as you like because you have responsibilities.
And so you don't want the responsibility that don't create the family or create the babies because it's not so much his job to raise them. They're yours. So Robert's, you're so hard. I know I’m mean. Yeah, well, I just don't want people in ministry to have a great ministry and their families a disaster which has been the trait. That's true. Both evangelical and the charismatic world. Pentecostal world. So we can suggest things or use to admonish and say, Hey, here's a point.
I may not be as excited about A Thousand Miracles documented, but is a point that you can fix it. You can last and have a good I mean, we love the stories of the children that do obey the Lord. Right? And we all said when we found out some of them didn't do well, it's true. When you do research, it is because home life was not dealt with. Lake made the changes, but there still was a struggle there. But he lived the life and he gave us an example of how to do ministry and healing.
And the healing rooms today are all over the world and amazing and they are successful. Everywhere I’ve been, the countries, they're they're, they're good. The local churches are good reputation. And that's the extension of John G. Lakes ministry today. It lives and it's worldwide, so it's beautiful. So you actually I had forgotten that until you just said a minute ago that you actually got to meet Gertrude. So tell me about her. His daughter?
I met his daughter, John G. Lake’s daughter Gertrude and her son-in-law Wilfred and Gertrude. Real nice old timey names Wilfred and Gertrude, I was. I met them when I was probably 16, 17, 18, that in that time period. And I got the privilege one time of driving them from Kenneth Hagin's office to Oral Robert's office. So I had that, what, ten mile drive there. So that was the time I had my first deeper encounter with them.
And she did the talking and she was concerned that people would understand his life that gave him the power . I asked her about what was the key to your dad's success? What you lived with it. You saw him at breakfast, you saw him at dinner. You were in the meetings with him before and after. He said he lived what he said. And if he didn't do right or something, he was really hard on himself that he should not have done that to make sure that didn't happen again.
And he would come to us and talk to us about those kind of things, even as young adults, really. So he she said that about him. She said that he was a man that was the tallest worker. He worked all the time and that was a part of the family challenges you spoke about. He loved what he did and we all do. And that's the part we love, what we do. Sure, of course. And she talked about that.
Going with him on trips was like each child's highlight to be with dad in the car, in the meetings, and he would try to do that kind of things. So she talked about that and they themselves did not have a strong healing ministry themselves, which was interesting. They had a very strong prayer ministry and intercessor type of both of them.
They wrote books about intercession and things and I heard them speak a few times and their main thing was praying for the harvest, praying for the revival, praying for the will of God, the earth. And that seemed to be their ministry and here's the sad thing. She was just gaining. Billy Brim had discovered her also, and I begin to bring her into the world of faith and about the world. And she was gaining recognition. This is Lake’s daughter.
Some people were inviting them and she got sick and died. Now she got sick. She got sick of something that could have been fixed by walking into a doctor's office 30 minutes and walk it out. And she should be okay. She did not believe or they did not believe in any medicine or any doctors at all. And so when she died, this was the conclusion I had, that she had her daddy's doctor, but not her daddy's faith delivered that level of that doctor. Yes.
And so I think the point we can make with that is, you see where people live and you know, how the doctrines they live that that lifestyle by. But you have to build your faith to operate in the full capacity of some of those doctors and she would not go to the doctor at all. And so really, Pentecostals were like anti. And the reason why they were anti doctors in the early days.
And got up and preached against them was because if they were still a practicing type of medicine, it was very barbaric. I don't think they would say the same thing today. But back in the 1800s or 1900s, folks, it was not good medicine. So they would preach or die preach because he saw after surgery how worse the patients were. And he said, it's better for you to die without doctors and just trust God. And that's why preachers get it so early.
Pentecostals heard Dowie's preaching and that kind of thing got to going, and it was probably a little more correct for that time, but not today. And she had that belief and she died because she had got something fixed in 30 minutes and just nail it and fix it. And she wouldn't do it because it was against Daddy's faith. That's what she said. So interesting that she called it Daddy's faith. Yeah, that says it. All right. That tells a story.
So it's good to see where they're at, but know how they got there. And you have to pay the same price privately to get those things to work. You know, Oral Roberts said something in the early seventies that I remember him saying this so long ago, which was at that time it was kind of on the tail end of a lot of that thought process. And he said, Take your faith with you to the doctor. Yeah, yeah. And that was like, it's okay. So like when you take that prescription, take it in faith.
Yeah, pray over as you take it. So, I mean, you know, even he had to deal with some of that in his ministry coming out of that understanding what people think. Some of them are like what your agent said. He says doctors have kept me alive long enough not to need them anymore. You know, in my life, there's some things I can get. Pray for you. I don't need a doctor. There are some things I need a pill and a shot. I'm not there yet, but I'm not staying there.
So I think we have to keep growing and pushing toward that and realizing that medicine is another way that God heals it is is not undermining divine healing. They work together. And so it's it's good that we can put them together. Yeah, it is. All right. So taking the last three or 4 minutes of program, I want you pray for the people. Let's talk. We've been talking about healing. Of course, you went on about John G. Lake mainly. But I want you pray for the people. Roberts And for healing.
I think there's a lot of people that would receive that. Father, we ask you today to do what you did when you walked around the shores of Galilee. You heal the sick and the oppressed. We ask that same Jesus to come into the homes of the people today that are sick, some with minor ailments, some with major difficulties. Those two things are never a problem for you. Jesus, You made our bodies. You know how to fix them. And we ask you today to touch people and heal them.
Other ailments, the diseases. And I remove the word curses off of their bodies and out of their minds. We remove the power of medical statements that are supposed to be facts, and we remove the power of that in the name of Jesus. And we say, Jesus is your healer and the God that healeth thee, let those words dominate in their home and their mind. And we ask that in Jesus name, Amen.
Amen. Amen. Now, listen, if you've prayed with Roberts and you're like, you know, I need a little bit more, maybe I need something to help me, You can call the phone number. It's 18772816297. Right here at KCM we have license, prayer ministers on the other end of that phone. They will pray with you. They'll give you scriptures, and in certain cases they'll even give you some product they'll send to you for free to help you in your walk, even some downloaded, some downloads that you can download.
So pick up the phone and call them. It's a free call. There's no charge for anything. 8772816297. And let the person know that you prayed with Robert Liardon on Revival Radio TV while they were having a revival chat. It's great. Okay, so we've got like a couple of minutes. I want to wrap this up. How do you think we're going to see this? I'm asking your opinion. Do you think we're going to see the bold Miracle ministry like John G. Lake?
Do you think we're going to see that again, or is it do you? I'm not saying we're living in sensationalism, but, you know, it seems like we don't see that we don't or don't hear about it or we hear about it in other countries. You'll hear about it in America. Do you think we're going to see this?
I think it's already in the earth, but it's harder in the Western countries and I think in America, because we're said said, I see the image of the future having difficult because there's so many other remedies by which people will seek cures. And I think that's because we've got it all here in America. The best doctors, the best everything. And so we don't rely on faith in Christ alone. It's one of our remedies. Maybe the last one. When the doctors don't work, we're going to die.
All right, we'll try. Jesus, let me go first. Yeah, that's. I love that you go first. Go to the word built. So many. Great. Thank you, Roberts, for this today. This is good. Yeah. And you can get this. Wherever books are sold, Amazon, wherever, get the Miracle Ministry of John G League. Don't go away. We'll see you next week right here on Revival Radio TV.