(uplifting music) - [Narrator] In every generation, there have been revivals, massive moves of the Spirit, that changed the course of history. In every revival, there were believers like you, who chose to answer the call, to become the one in their generation. Discover your call to be the one in your generation. Welcome to Revival Radio TV, I'm Gene Bailey, your host. All this month, we've been talking with Brother Copeland and Jerry Savelle. And today is going to be even more memorable.
Remember we've talked about the beginning moments, as I was talking to them about how they started a ministry, starting in prayer. And Brother Copeland shared about how he had just been given the opportunity to pray in the invalid area with Oral Roberts. How would you like Oral Roberts looking over your shoulder when you prayed for somebody for the first time? I'm sure that was quite an experience.
Listen, I know that you're excited and I know that you've enjoyed these behind the scenes look with Brother Copeland and Jerry Savelle. So let's get right into it today, and see what God has to say, from these giants of the faith. - Oh, there's some sick people in that room. And he reached over and got me, he said, "Now you're gonna do the prayin', "and you're gonna do the laying on of hands." - Right. - I could feel. (laughs) - Everything. - I'm changing colors, you know.
And he laughed, he said, "Don't worry about it. "If you make a mistake, I'll be there, "I'll fix it, all right." I said, "Okay." So the first one, this little woman, bless her heart, her nurse was standing there, and she was on an old army, old military army cot. And she looked like she couldn't weigh over 75 pounds. Just skin and bone, her little tummy all pooched out there, she had cancer of the stomach. And he said, "Now, don't touch 'em "til you're ready to release your faith."
Now, that's another thing I learned from him. You don't just go up there to start shooting your mouth off in every direction. I'd been studying the power and authority invested in the Name of Jesus that I learned from Brother Hagin. And I thought, the Name of Jesus is my point of contact. And I'll touch them simultaneously, in the Name of Jesus. Now, the Spirit of God showed me that. I couldn't have come up with that. And I walked over there to her, he was standing right behind me.
And, I said, "In the Name of Je-", and that's far as I got. I touched her on the head. Now, she was so weak Gene, that her nurse had to put her hands under her back and lift her up so she could hold her head up there for us to lay hands on. - Wow. - And, oh, that, moment. When all the praying in tongues, all of the spiritual exercise, hours and hours and hours of it in this man's life exploded at one time. And you can't even imitate it. It comes from deep, it is supernatural voice, power.
He was standing right behind me. He shouted, I'm telling you, "You foul, unclean spirit, "in the Name of Jesus, whose I am and whom I serve. "Take your hands off God's property, now." She spit that tumor out on the floor. I looked at that thing and it, about the size of my fist, and like had tentacles. And I thought that thing look like a jelly fish. I mean, I'm just, I just all of a sudden stepped out there in that realm with him. That's the first time I'd ever been out there.
And, oh, God, I love it. I want out there, I want out there so bad (laughs), every time I get out there. - He told me one time, he said, "When I developed a hatred for the works of Satan, "as much as I love the works of God." - Yes, sir. - And he said that was a key thing I learned in praying for the sick, and praying for those that were demonized, and demon-possessed.
He said, "In my room, praying in the spirit, " I developed a hatred for the works of Satan, "as much as I loved the works of God." And he said when I face somebody like that, and saw what Satan was doing to them that's when that anointing would come on me, and it would be like there was no fear. It was like a gift of faith would come on him. - And then would, in turn, cause those tent meetings, you couldn't shut 'em down. - No. - And he's getting all kinds of persecution, he didn't even hear it.
A.A. Allen didn't even hear it, he ain't got time to listen to that trash. There's too much going on, man, in the Spirit. And the only way he, the gateway to the supernatural. Now a person is born again, the Spirit of God is in him. I mean He's in there. But, now, Jesus was born of the Spirit. - [Gene] Right, right. - He's just as much the Son of God when he's 29 as he was when he is 30. He had to be baptized with the Holy Spirit, for power and service.
There's the spirit within, and there is the Spirit upon. He said-- - [Gene] It's upon me. - "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, He has anointed me to preach." That's the words of Jesus. And He is the example son. He is the holy example. If He needed to be baptized in the Holy Ghost, we need to be baptized in the Holy Ghost. - [Gene] Right. - Now, the only two manifestations in the New Testament, that were not in the Old Testament are tongues and interpretation of tongues.
All of the other manifestations of the Spirit of God were in there. And Jesus walked in them. He walked, He called himself a prophet. But, He did more teaching than He did anything else. Amen. - [Gene] Amen. - But until He was baptized, the baptism with the Holy Spirit is the gateway to the supernatural. - [Gene] That's right.
- Amen. And then when we get baptized, with the Holy Spirit, as we speak in a language we didn't learn, then we step over into that place that releases our inner man, our spirit being into the timeless realm of the Spirit. And you get into those places, you can't get in there any other way. And that's where he was that day. That, that woman spit that tumor out. - What did you do when you saw that? - Oh, man, are you kidding? My hair was sticking straight out on the back of my neck. - I bet.
- And, oh, there were things happened in that invalid room that I'll never forget, long as life is. Long as-- - Now, see, I didn't grow up in that. - Right. - I didn't even know the name Oral Roberts til 1957, watching TV and that's when I heard the call watching him. But I didn't answer until 12 years later. - I never heard that, that's when you had the call-- - That's when I heard the call. I was in Oklahoma City at my grandmother's, Thanksgiving, 1957. - Watching Oral Roberts.
- I was just turning 11 years old. And somebody turned on my grandmother's old, black and white Philco television set, and the first image that came out was Oral preaching out of the big tent. And he was preaching his most famous tent sermon, called The Fourth Man. - [Kenneth] Fourth Man. - And I was captivated. And I heard the call of God then. And that, of course, that's not what I wanted to do, so I never told anybody, didn't go that direction, until 12 years later, when he came.
And I think it's interesting that God used a man that had worked for Oral Roberts to get me. - The divine connection. - Yeah, the divine connection. When I came to work with Brother Copeland and I learned about his relationship with Oral Roberts, Oral had become my spiritual grandfather, I considered Brother Copeland my dad, and Oral was my spiritual grandfather. But I'd told him one time, when I was up at ORU. I said, "Brother Roberts, I feel like I've been robbed."
He said, "Why?" I said, "I didn't get to grow up in your tent meetings. "I didn't get to be in that." I said, "My wife did, my father and mother-in-law, "took Carolyn, when she's a baby, laid on her a quilt, on a sawdust floor, in the tents, with William Branham, A.A. Allen, Jack Coe, all those guys, they went to all those meetings. And I said but I didn't get to see any of that. He said, well, you know, we captured all that on film. It's down in the archives, any time you wanna watch any of it.
He said, "I'll assign somebody "who works in the media department to go down there "and turn the 16 millimeter projector on "and let you watch all of them you want." I said, "When?" He said, "Any time you want." I said, "How about right now?" (laughter) He said, "Okay." So he took me down to the archives, and I sat in there and watched all those old crusades. And cried like a baby, all the rest of the afternoon, watching the anointing of God.
He came down later and he said, "You stil here?" I said, "Yes, sir." He said, "You are one hungry young man, aren't you?" I said, "I'm the hungriest man in this building right now." I said, "When can I do it again?" He said, "Anytime you want." I said, "How about tomorrow? "What time does it open?" I stayed in there the whole day. I stayed in there three days, watching those old crusades.
So finally, he said, and this was in VHS days, he said, "You are so hungry, "I believe I'll do something for you." I said, "What is that?" He said, "I'm gon' have them copy all these on VHS, "as many of them as we can, and send them home with you." So he had them to copy on VHS, probably about 25 or 30 of those old tent meetings, and I took 'em home with me. And I'd watch 'em every day, every night.
I bought a video player when they first come out, that you could, it was portable, you could take it on the road with you. I'd set it up in my room. And watch Oral Roberts tent meetings before I'd start praying in the Spirit, preparing for the service. Just to be under that anointing. - You were re-digging that well, weren't you? - Oh, yeah, - Yeah, that's right. - re-digging that well. Yeah. - And you getting it in your eyes, in your ears, and you're just absorbing.
- Yeah. But he sent me, when he found out that I heard the call watching him preach The Fourth Man. He said, "Where was that?" I said, "Well, I don't know where it was, but." I said, "It looked like a pavilion, the one I saw." He said, "It was the Hollywood Bowl, 1957." And he got me a copy of that very meeting. - [Gene] Wow. - Yeah. - There is just so much the devil can do. His power ends at the furnace door. And that's where the power of the fourth man begins.
- [Congregation] Amen. - Their faith suspended a natural law. They were delivered from that fire, and the only thing that the fire could burn were the bonds on their bodies. There's something the fire could not burn. - The first time I was invited to, come back to ORU and preach. There at Mabee Center. I spoke in the morning in several different departments. Just talking on faith, you know. And then preached in Mabee Center at night. Well, that first day, we broke for lunch.
And Oral and Evelyn's home was right there on campus. He said, you and Gloria, let's go to the house, they've got lunch prepared for us there. So we went in there, and went into the den there, he said, "Now, Kenneth, take your shoes off, and sit down right there." And said, "Gloria, take your shoes off and sit on the floor, "sit down right there." He said, "Evelyn take your shoes off." She said, "Oral, I'm not gonna sit on the floor, "and I'm not gonna take my shoes."
He said, "Okay, sit in the chair." (laughs) So we all sat down there. And I thought, boy, this is gonna be good, 'cause he's got his Bible and his notepad and everything out there. And I'm smiling. He said, "Kenneth, teach me about faith." I said, "Sir? "You gotta be kidding me." He said, "I am not kidding." He said, "You're looking at the hungriest man "for God on this planet, "and you boys have learned some things about faith, "that I don't know yet.
"And you just start at the beginning, "and you teach me what you know." Now, see he-- - [Jerry] He was that way. - He, boy, he preached faith, but not from the standpoint of releasing it with your mouth, and he studied it, and he studied it, and he studied it and he started preaching it. And he told me, he said, "I'll give you credit first time or two." But then he said, "You're on your own after that, partner."
(laughter) - But I wanna say that, he said, "You're looking at the hungriest man on the planet for God." - He was that way til the day he died. - Yeah, yeah he was. - You know, he'd watch like a TV program on or something, and call me up there and he'd say, "I want you to come preach that sermon "that you just preached on TV." I'd go up, go to his office or to his home, and he'd have a blackboard set up. - [Kenneth] Yeah. - Chalk board.
And I'd walk in and he'd hand me a piece of chalk, he said, "Now, put your three main points, "and those scriptures you read. "And then preach that to me "just like you did in that sermon." And he said, "If I don't understand something I'll stop you, "and I'll question you." He called it an "Oral exam." (laughter) And so. - It wasn't easy to do. - No. - I can imagine. - One time he kept me for six hours.
Six hours. - Yeah, had to start, say, something you normally preach in an hour, he'd take you all day. 'Cause he'd just pick it, just pick it, and you'd learn more from (laughs). - He said, "How do you know that's what that means? "Stop right there. "How do you know that's what that means?" I'd say, well, that's what the Lord showed me, said to me. He said, "Well, how did he say it?" You know, he'd just quiz you on everything. - Yeah. - Like dissecting it.
And when you get through, he said, "All right, you've heard from God, you can go now." And one of my greatest joys, was, he came to Anaheim one time when we were preaching at the Believers' Convention there. And he called and he said, "Are you preaching tonight?" It was on Thursday, he said, "Are you preaching tonight, like you usually do?" And I said, "Yes, sir, I am." He said, "Then save a seat next to Gloria," I mean Carolyn, me and Evelyn are coming.
And so, when I got through preaching, we went back to the speakers' room back there, and he turned to the back of his Bible. And I'd preached on the force of joy, if Satan can't steal your joy. - Yeah. - And he wrote at tope of his Bible, "Oral's joy". And then he had all my scriptures and all my points, and he said, "Now, "I'm gonna' preach that and I'm not gonna' tell anybody "where I got it." I said, "Well, Brother Roberts that's fine, "I've been doing you that way for years."
(laughter) But, Richard was digging around, him and Lindsey were digging around in all Oral's notes, and they found, on a yellow legal pad, the notes that he preached from my sermon in Denver after he left that Anaheim convention. And he wrote my name in there three times, Jerry Savelle said, Jerry Savelle said, and they framed it for me, and I have it down at my study in my river house. I thought how many people can say Oral Roberts preached your sermons and put your name in there three times?
- Yeah, that's awesome. - I know, that's a great blessing. - That's what you have to be. - He was hungry all the time. - To be a man or a woman used of God. - Yeah. - If you ever get to the place where you think you've made it and you're there, you're done. I have learned so much from my grandson, Jeremy. Man has been in the ministry since he's three, you know, you oughta learn some stuff. He's never wanted to be anything else. And he's never done anything else.
And just the Spirit of God is on he and Sarah. And you have to be in that place where you're teachable, Gene, and not touchy. The woman, that, came to the disciples. Just about to drive them up the wall. And what she was she? Syrophoenician? And Jesus, tantamount, called her a dog. But instead of getting all huffy about it, she said, "Yes, Master, but the dogs get the crumbs "under the master's table." He said, "For that, say and go your way, "your daughter has been made whole."
Now the key to her, she believed He was Messiah. Now, where she got it, it doesn't say, but she called Him son of David. And the people that called Him son of David, believed He was Messiah. - [Gene] Right. - And that's borne out in the New Testament. And somehow she got hold of that. And she didn't care what He said, He had to get her into a place, where He could minister to her, because He's not supposed to be ministering to her. He came to the house of Israel.
But, boy, I mean, He's pulling on her, He's moving her, He's gotta get her, He wants to deliver that girl, who's demon possessed, and He's got to get her in a position where He can get through to her. And, man, she opened the door. Because she was teachable and she wasn't touchy. You couldn't insult her. Don't care what He said. She meant business, and he's God He can say what He wants to, but I'm not leaving here til my daughter's healed. I'm not leaving here til this church is a success.
- Amen. - And I don't care what I have to hear the Lord say to me, and any kind of correction He wants to say to me, I humble myself before Him, and I'm here to be changed, 'cause He's not gon' change. He is the same He is today, today and forever. You go back to praying in the Spirit. That's where the answers are. - Praise God, He's good. - Amen. Gene, there's something I've been praying for years, particularly, I guess probably the last 20 years.
It's a whole different environment in the Church today. People tend to want their ears tickled more today, for something that just sounds good, but is not necessarily, Bible. People want to be entertained. I remember years ago, I asked you in Anaheim one time. I said Brother Copeland, when we first started these meetings, I would have a room that overlooked the front door of the arena, and I could look down there, and I'm an early riser.
And I'd see people gathering, six, seven o'clock in the morning, setting out on the lawn, waiting for those doors to open for that morning service. So hungry, they'd, they'd just pile up outside there, soon as those doors open, man, they'd run in there trying to get a front row seat. And every year I'd see that more and more. And a lot of pastors I knew were sitting out there on the lawn with their families, waiting for those doors to open. Over a period of time, I didn't see that as much.
And I remember asking you one time, I said, "Why do you suppose? "we're not having the crowds now, "that we used to have." And he said something that, probably one of the most powerful things I ever heard, he said, "For most people, "the Word has lost its entertainment value." They wanna be entertained. Well, I've preached in 4,000 churches in America alone, in 50 years, and I can count a small number that I would say are truly hungry for a move of God. They're not willing to make changes.
They're locked in, they're gonna do it this way. And I think the sad thing is they measure success by the number of people they have in their congregation. That doesn't necessarily mean you're successful. - No, not at all. - But, "Look how large my church is. " I must be doing everything right." That's not necessarily-- - No. - The evidence that you're doing everything right. Hitler could draw a crowd, but he wasn't right.
And so, truly, I don't know that many churches, that are really hungry for a move of God, because they'd have to make changes. And here's what I've been praying, from Psalm 110, verse 3, thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power. - [Gene] Right. - And another translation says, they will be willing to offer themselves. So we need to pray, as the Body of Christ. And we know, in time, prophetic Words, that there's gonna be a major move of God, before the appearing of Jesus.
That's the power we're talking about here. And He said in the day of thy power, your people will be willing. In other words, it's gonna take the power of God, in manifestation, beyond what previous generations have seen because this generation is not like previous generations. They're distracted by everything. But, it's gonna take a move of the power of God, in our generation, for the people to become willing again, to offer themselves freely to God.
And that's my prayer, that's what I've been praying for. - God, we need a move of Supernatural power beyond anything that Oral saw in the tent crusades, beyond anything in the Welsh Revival, all those revivals. And I know it's coming. It is coming. And I believe that's the prayer that the Body of Christ needs to be praying for. - Praise God. - Right now that things will change when people begin to see the power of God, in a way they've never seen it before.
- To wrap this up, Brother Copeland, and what you just said perfectly leads into this. So our role, you know, we have pastors watch this, I know 'cause they came up to me at the convention, at the Ministers' Conference, everything, to say, thank you for doing our research for us, which is great, but, they are hungry, but either they're stuck in a rut, or they don't know. They're just like, just, "I just don't know what to do."
But what you've told us, both of you ministers have shared with us so eloquently is our role is to pray about it. - [Kenneth] Yes, sir. - And not just pray, but pray in the Spirit. - [Kenneth] Pray in the Spirit. - Praise God. - That's where the answers are. - That's where the answers are. - You have to transcend the human mind, and go out in a place where there's no time nor distance. - Amen. - And you tap into the, the greatness of God. And inside every born again believer, there's greatness.
- [Gene] Yes. - And inside of every Holy Ghost baptized believer, there is a method of stepping out into the known and the unknown. Known to God, unknown to us, but you trust Him. And you go out into that place, praise God. And just get out there so far, you might not come back. - [Gene] Amen. - Amen. - Sounds good to me. - That sound good to me, doesn't it to you? - Listen, I know you've enjoyed these interviews with Brother Copeland and Jerry Savelle.
As you noticed, right in the middle of the interview, it started raining, that big sound you heard was it raining right there. Normally we would try and stop and start over, but, listen, the power in the studio was so incredible there at the time, we weren't about to stop recording. We wanted to keep going and hear what these gentleman had to say. So I know you enjoyed that as we left it, unedited, so you can hear it in its entirety.
There's one comment, that Brother Copeland made that I wanna leave you with today, he said this, that, "Inside every born again believer, there's greatness." (uplifting music)