In every generation there have been revivals. Massive moves of the Spirit that changed the course of history. In every revival, there were believers like you who chose to answer the call to become the one in their generation. Discover your call to be the one in your generation. Welcome back to Revival Radio TV. Welcome back Roberts. Thank you for being here. All right. This is a topic I really enjoyed. We kind of touched on it probably a couple of years ago now, and it's been that long.
It's been a while. So I want to I want us to kind of dive into this again because it's so huge in the body of Christ especially. And I think all of us need to understand the difference between a calling and a mantle. So, okay, go take off. I'll take a mantle. It's an all inclusive thing. So you're asking about a calling. A mantle to have a calling, an equipment, a gifting, a strategy, all that inside for the particular thing that God wants to do in that cloak. You know what to call it.
It's an individual thing. It may not be as powerful as the others are, but it's a part of a mantle. And so it's not all inclusive like a mantle is. Does that make sense? No. Okay. So can you can you can you give us an example of each? Well, you can have a calling to feed people or calling to build a church. Right.
And that can be a part of a mantle, a mantle will have a call like the healing mantle I talk about in with Etter, McPherson, Kuhlman, Bennie, that a healing mantle is a healing, dominating force in the earth. Everyone that carries it has the same type of calling to carry the healing, demonstrating power to that generation. Got it. So and it in there comes special graces, giftings, equipments, all that stuff goes into that cloak where if you just about a calling it has a similar calling.
It's not the whole inclusive thing that makes sense. So that's that's part of it. A mantle is a cloak actually speaking made of threads. So one thread is the gifting. One thread is the anointing. One thread is the impartation part that comes that makes all that together and it comes upon you. Some people have an anointing from like, for example, I do not carry anything of Kenneth Hagin in a mantle. I don't have it.
I said under him all long enough to have an anointing, maybe one very precious that I've got and I can feel it come out of me sometimes. That anointing is not a Kenneth Hagin mantle, it's an annointing I picked up by this means for years sitting in the crowd. I met him a few times. I wasn't close, close to him. I had lunch with him a few times. That was it. What I got was seeing. I got anointing in the room that came upon and went in and became a part of my life.
That is not the Kenneth Hagin mantle. So people assumed because they have an anointing like that from somebody, they had the mantle and that's not the same thing. Does that make sense? Yes, it does. So there are tons of people have anointing from different ministers and I think get them all you can get. Yeah, but that doesn't mean you have the mantle of that thing. So that that's how I explain the difference.
So let's talk about let me just pick somebody and you can kind of tell me where it went and where we're being nice to everybody. If you know. All right, let's talk about Amy. Simple McPherson. Okay. I mean, she was quite she was the greatest Pentecostal preacher we've ever had. I mean, I love all the guys, but this divorced woman did well and out did them all. So even a miracle power. I mean, the lady had it all.
She built the Foursquare denomination because the Assemblies of God would not accept her, her churches because she was a divorced woman. Yeah. And that's why she had the service. I want people understand how much behind the scenes drama she had to overcome to Obviously, God did not penalize her for the mistakes in her marriages. So for if you're divorced, God to give you a second chance.
So please take it and get with folks so that you have a second chance that she we know that that is a massive thing you just said. And that's good. That's good because if you are divorced, your life is not over now. It's not. And all of this is good or bad, but it's not as looked as much as a scarlet letter and process it a lot better. Now we do process. That's a good way to put it. Process it better, but that does not mean you're disqualified. So yeah, please continue.
Yes, some groups you can never preach you not with God, not with God. So you may have to find another group and that's okay. That's all right. Yeah. And I would encourage them all to do it because there are a lot of divorced preachers that need to be back in the pulpit to help our country at this time. Amen, preach it. So she went through all of that and she overcame those things. The biggest challenge at Amy's life was her succession plan.
She had two children, one from Robert Simple, the daughter Roberta. Her second husband, Harold, had Rolf and she had two children. And so the daughter was the one that had the pulpiteer gift the orator gift like her mother. When I talked with her on the phone, you can hear it. Even her just talking to you could hear that thought of please preach.
But she to tell the story she grew up in the ministry, loved Jesus all of her life, but could not handle the politics and the bickering and the biting and all the stuff that was going on around this famous woman preacher in the church in ministry. Okay. So it got into the family between Amy and her mother. They both are right and they both wrong. And but the daughter just could not handle it. So she left the ministry, left California and went as far as she could to New York City.
She married a Jewish man, serve the Lord. They bought an apartment complex building and lived in it, and that's how they made a living. She tithed every month to Angelus Temple her whole life, but would not preach ever. She made like two return trips for anniversaries for the church and would give a little speech, but she would never preach again. So Amy lost the vocal oracle gift of her mantel right? That was to come.
Amy knew how it was going to fall out, and she recognized when her daughter Roberta left and never returned that it was over. So the only one left of the original plan of God that she felt was her son, Rolf And she said to Rolf he told me this because I asked him about it, because I knew Rolf at the end of his life. I said, How did your mom prepare you for this? She first told me what I was not to do. Interesting. She says, You're not a preacher. You're not an oracle.
If you're an administrator, that's where God put you gifted your sister was this and this did not work out. So you still have to obey God according to your gifting and your part of the mantle that you do carry. And she taught him what he was. It was not first and then taught him how to operate in that side. She told him, now, you can get up and speak some, you get up and preach. But that's not where your strengths are.
You are to organize it and to keep it run efficiently and right and keep growing. And since your sister will not do this, fine men and women who have that gift in organization, if you help identify some and put them up and let them do that and it'll grow round it exactly what his mom told him when she died. He never tried to be the head pulpiteer He would do some preaching and teaching and things, but that wasn't his gift. He was an administrator and he put other people forward.
So the denomination after the great founder died, when it was survived the first few years of her absence, it began to kick in and grow and it still became one of the largest Full Gospel denominations all over the world. Especially oversees because of his gift, and he stayed where it was to be. So you had a mantle with a hiccup in it. God's original plan in that failure, which was very rare, to have both children in the actual line, succeed her, because that's very rare for that to be.
And but we had a daughter who said no, and she loved Jesus. She went to heaven when she died, she would only talk to me once or twice on the phone because she thought I was gonna write everything she said down, which I did. And so. So you didn't talk to Roberta or not record what she said so she would never let me see her in person, but she let my mom go see her, so my mom's not going to tell me. So she records. It, brings it all back for me and stuff. But she loved Jesus.
I said, Mom, she is she really in love with God? Like she was such a little girl. She was. She was passionate about the Lord. Loved it, love what her mom did, was not angry, but she kept saying, I could not live with all of this politics, drama, competition because it got to me so bad. It made me begin to hate things just like stuff. And she moved herself. And look, she might have made the right decision for her soul, right. But did not know how to get back to that. Or maybe she went too far.
I would love for her to preach sometimes, but she didn't do it at all. So that's that kind of mantle with a hiccup in it and Amy's life. And so The Four Square is still doing great. We'll never be another Amy. Thank God we had our closer, our lifetime. We could still feel the effects of her life. Yeah, that's good. Okay, let's. Let's pick. Let's talk about Mother Etter. Mother Etter, she. She started what I called the great healing mantle in America. Now, that's my words.
Other historians may want name it something different, and I'm okay with that. But there's a healing mantle that we see that rests on Benny at this moment. He's the last carrier of it started with Maria Woodworth Etter, came to Amy McPherson, to Kathryn Kuhlman and then to Benny. That's the way that thing lined up. And so it began with her trying to be a farmer, her husband, to be farmers. It's amazing how we can do stupid stuff. And so they try to be farmers and weren't good farmers.
And the sad thing about that time, all their kids died. But one one daughter, she had five children. So she makes a comment which I don't like the comment, but she made it that she felt like cause she didn't obey, that that's why God killed. Her kids kind of thing. Yeah, yeah.
That concept And so she finally said to her Husband were not making it which like no this let’s don't let’s don't go to by it pass that too quickly because with at that time and in that era that's what they thought that part of revelation was where there that's where they were at. When you read history and you read the sermons of these people that we dearly love. Yeah. They will say things that we know better today about because we're taught.
And so you hear her say stuff like that and you'll hear Lake you'll hear Wigglesworth, you'll hear it was ago because they didn't live in the time of our revelation. They were behind us. So we have progressed, especially because the word of faith movement. Sure. We've learned so much during that era, Right? Wow. So you have to read it. Understand?
When I tell a story, you have to something explain the culture of the day, the understanding of where that we're at in the overall Christian faith belief system. Yeah. You know, Charles Spurgeon did not know about the Holy Spirit and the tongues and the gifts, but he was a great orator. He was a mighty, mighty anointed man of God. But we hear him talk, he leaves things out. It wasn't there. They didn't have it.
And so if you enjoy where they're at, not criticize them or throw them out because they don't have this revelation. One of the problem of charismatics, if you don't speak in tongues or have visions, they don’t want to read your book. Please stop that and read people's books because they are great. So good, great books like Spurgeon’s stuff is wonderful. Yeah. Wesley and all these guys. All right. But now, since you kind of went down, the the legacy of Maria Woodworth Etter and you got to. Benny.
Now, Benny did not know. He didn't know Kathryn Kuhlman. You think he would know? He talks about her, but he didn't. Yeah, he did not know her. I think he sang in the choir and saw and saw. I actually talked to her, so I'm closer to her than he was. That was my joke between him and I. Yeah. So why didn't you get the mantle, not me? So. So explain that. Because, I mean, we I think we typically think, well, the family members around them the most, so that's why it goes there logically.
That's what would make sense but now. But now you've got somebody that's so not not really connected yet, like you said, you see that on him. There's always exceptions to every rule we make. You know, you go like you told me somebody Benny was one of those because all of them with Etter, McPherson actually met Etter and had it sometime with her in her older age. Actually, Rolf told me with when she met her, she was not impressed. She loved her and excited.
But there was nothing that impressed Amy about the presence or the ministry that night of Mother Etter, which was interesting. But that is interesting. The one time Etter’s people was at a place where Amy was preaching and they asked Mother Etter, would you want to go here? Amy goes, she's too dramatic. And I'm like, And you're not. I mean, it's just he's like, Please, you know? But it just showed personalities and stuff, which I thought was funny. But that anointing came on.
Amy And she doubled it, that there's an aspect and you see what was on Etter, it hit Amy went to another level and then it came to Kathryn Kathryn actually with Amy's Bible School for like a half a semester and dropped out. She went out there to California when she was married to Burroughs Waltrip and it was the mistake of her life, right. And she discovered the ending of that marriage out there. She was trying everything she could to make that thing work and it did not work.
And so she actually there's a story she tells you get to hunt for what she tells. She goes to Amy's grave. And if you know how Amy's agree with said there's the big thing that there's like little benches on the sides but she's on this side and old Latino Mexican grandmother was bringing her granddaughter up, the little slope to the grave. And she sits over here and you can hear what each of them are saying there. And Kathryn is praying and listening.
And the grandmother says, I wanted to bring you here today to introduce you to the woman that gave me our faith. This is why you go to church. So your mama goes to church? Because I go to church because she came to my town and told me about Jesus. And Kathryn was crying and she prayed the little I hope before I die so I could see that about me. So it shows the desperate place she was at at that moment in her life. She she lost her reputation. She lost invitation.
Her marriage was ending Things had dried up. It was over. It was over. She had nothing. And that was the moment. A few weeks later, she walks to dead end street in California and dies her great death things. She talks about. Yeah, and the mantle that was on Amy that fell on her. It came to her at the worst time of her life, which I think is a shock.
Yeah. Why would you give this thing, this wonderful, outstanding nation attention getting thing on a woman at the worst time of her life, walking out of a marriage? Because I think he saw her heart and she was very sincere and she was very sad and she was very sorry. She messed up so bad and she told Jesus, I don't have anything. All I have is I love you. If you can use me, please use me. And that was it. That's when she got it. But it took her ten years to figure out what it was.
It did her ten years to walk out. The hurt, the emotion and the church trauma that she had to walk through because of her divorce for that thing to start operating. And when it started operating. So it was ten years from that time. From that time, about ten years, it took ten years. And her coming back into ministry, you know, people don't realize what she went through. Those 8 to 10 years, the church almost killed Ms. Kuhlman because of being divorced.
They did not know how to give a person that has made that type of mistake a second chance. And so Kathryn had enough to do it to keep going because she loved Jesus. That was it. And she kept going. And finally the power started in a service without anybody being touched. While she was talking, it began to hit the room and she was more shocked because I think she thought at that time her oracle preaching was the main thing God gave her.
She did not know about the power that was coming, so she was just happy to be still be a preacher that I could talk about. I could invite you to come to the Lord because that is what she did. She did not have a lot of miracles. She had some, but nothing major. But I think it happened in Pennsylvania and it grew and it came like a force.
That's a problem when you get a mantle you have to have the character and the mentality and the right structure so that they get it is an overwhelming nation demanding attention. Confrontational force of God comes through a person and it's a whole country. And there may be regional mantles, but I’m talking about national ones. Sure. But that's what that healing mantle came Etter first, Kuhlman and then to Benny.
That's what the thing is when that came on to Kathryn she dropped every desire to ever build a church, to get married, get to do anything she gave her whole life to protect her second chance and to cooperate with that gift that God gave her. And that's why it was so powerful. And she kept it like that. Her attitude toward it, her way of talking about it, the way she would not pray for you after you were healed. Because I want you to know I did not heal you.
She worked on me intentionally to keep herself behind that thing and not in front of it. And it may be easier for women than for men to do that. Because of the, the dispositions of our egos, and our positions in society, women have that helpmate where men and more take charge. And that's why there's a little difference, I think, sometimes in the way they carry it. But that thing was powerful.
And with Benny when he came along, I've talked to him several times about it, and sometimes he talks about demons and I think he does want to talk about it. And none of them talked about it, to be honest with you. Read the story. No, don't talk about it. I'm the guy that talks about it. I'm a guy who writes about it and I'm over here and I think I'm right. What I'm saying is there's something here that just individual ministries.
Now, the reason why I began to look at it, one, what are the similarities? Number one, actually, they all wore white when they preached, which is that natural coincidence or choice. But even Benny's white suit, all the more white Amy's servant outfit was white Etter wore white. So there was a white aspect to it. I don't think it's a requirement. I think it is one of those things.
But they all had dominant healing ministries that took national attention and and they dominated the whole time they were there. They dominated. Etter, you can find her newspaper articles all through the newspapers in America, and they describe their meetings like, yeah, right. Civil War, battlefield, you know, their all slain in the spirit. So it is exciting.
But the thing with the other thing with this, they all have the same problems, which means that's the demo that's sign to buffet this thing. They all had doors for marriage problems and divorce and they all had physical ailments toward the end of their life. Many with the heart. There was some other aspects, but the heart, it was a common thing to all of them. He would. Pastor Benny in the last year it's public so I’m not speaking out of turn.
But he was at the hospital years ago with a heart issue. I used to tell it to Benny, Benny you got this thing and here's how the devil fights it. He fights in the marriage with your heart. What you're married to, what your heart is all, Brother Roberts. I said, Benny But I'm right, Benny. That's right. So when you carry a mantle, if you are elected by God to do that, I think we all want it. Sure, we're not going to get it. I've got Kathryn Kuhlman's mantle. No, you don't Benny does.
And we call the mantle owner the name of the last person that carried it. Because when you look at Amy to call it Etter. When you look at McPherson, you know, so that's why we all the Kuhlman thing, but really it's a healing mantle. So you carry that healing mantle, whoever gets it next. Someone’s gonna get it hopefully. Either understand how it works, how the devil fights it, and put more strength in those areas to keep it right.
So you don't crack and then watch how it affects your actual family. A lot of their families, all their families, Etter's kids died. Even her daughter died before Etter died. The last living one was hit by a trolley car a while. It buried every child and both husbands before she died. What? The tragedy of the human soul. Amy had three marriages. One that was the right one, the will of God with Robert. And that was. Well, he died early. And then she married again and again.
And the last two were not successful at all. So there's a marriage crisis there. She actually died with physical ailments where she had arthritis in her arms and intestinal. Probably should be about a buck someplace in Mexico, they said. And she was on a sleeping medication because Amy would not sleep. She would go two or three days without sleeping. And they had a problem because her staff kept resigning because they couldn't keep up with her. So the board would come, okay, I can't.
And Dowie was the same way. And so the board came to Amy like you got you kill your staff, stop it, because, well, I'm awake. I got to I got to do something. So they were hiring two staffs, a night staff and a day staff so that they said at the end, at five or six, and then the new staff would come on at night and work all through the night with Amy. And that's how they solved that problem. But she was on a sleeping pill. I have never heard that they had two staff to sit and to keep.
You know, she was, I think she was close to a genius level in her mind. Like Dowie was too There was several genius level generals. I was at Amy's creativity and her mental capacities like Dowie was phenomenal. They would have been successful whatever they did, because they had great mind. They were genius levels and and but they both had problems sleeping. I think sometimes with your your spirit so active and your mind's so active, it's hard to calm them down so your body can sleep.
And so that's why they got sick. And she got sick actually died. So is it wrong for us then to pray for a mantle. I don't think you pray for it, in my opinion. I think it's what you do. Lord, I would like one if I available this be available, be open. I've read all these guys and I'll take any of the mantles I get. Or I just. Sure. But I don't have. You have to be honest with yourself though. You be honest like I really want Kathryn Kuhlman’s. That's what I wanted.
Yeah, but I had to be happy knowing the guy that had it. So I was friends with the guy that had it. So I said, okay, but you have to be honest enough with yourself not to assume something or start doing the acting of it. Because you. I can act like Kathryn I know how to do a Kathryn Kuhlman service. I could do the music, I could do the whole thing and I can do it. But that's put it on. That's not real.
And so people do the copycat and they can fool people for a while and there will be miracles because people's faith will be released in some of those services where it'll give the leniency to what kind of feels like. But it's not the mantle it is the manufacturing of something creating a room with worship, that healing will occur in. That's what they do. The atmosphere. Yeah, the atmosphere. So I think you can pray. And if God gives it to you, I don't think you announce it.
I think like with the prophets, sons of the prophets saw Elijah come across the river. We see the mantle of Elijah arresting you, right? If you had it, it'll be seen. You don't have to announce it. You don't have to say you have it. It is like Benny never has to say he has it. Yeah. Hello. It's and he's never, he's never has and I think that's a quality of them. I think we see it and we say it right and so I think it is wrong to, to it's a wrong motive to go after something.
There it is. That's what I just wanted to get to. Not to go after. I think you'll be available right. I available if there's any chance or I'm willing. Please consider me. You probably will not get it, but at least you put yourself in a position of availablity And if you don't get it, can you be okay with it? Yeah. Can you just go and do what God's given you to do and be okay with not having that thing that you want to? Just because you want it does mean you'll get it.
Because with the desires of my heart, that's not in your world. It's in his world. He manages the mantles It's true. And he says, who has who don't have them? I know you've enjoyed what you've heard today from Robert and man the show. We're almost out of time, so let's kind of as much as we can wrap up mantles and callings, understanding there was something that I want to go back to that
you made a point of. Is it the calling in the mantle is so great that we can make the mistake that we rely on that as a level of our own spirituality or our our closeness to God, because look at what God's done through me. I've seen that my life, my whole life, people in positions say, Well, you know, I'm obviously right because look what God does. You know, that's not true. We had to learn from Brother Branham Yes.
That a gift that everybody every interview, including his own sons, hundreds of Branham people say this He never missed it in his gifting, but he missed it in his teaching and position himself of how God positioned him. And he got off. He died early because of that. So back in those days, people believed his gift was so accurate that everything he said had to be from God. And it's not true.
And you have to sort all that stuff out because half the people going on today, they need to read the Bible school and start over. All right. You want to know more about Roberts Liardon in all his books, Of course, Gods Generals and all those you got, if you have a lot of stuff at RobertsLiardon.org Yeah, yeah. So go to that website and, you know, and you're about to come out with a new book. Yeah, my mantles book will be out next year. Probably the spring.
I have a new Generals book coming out next year too. and who's in this book? This will be more like a revival leaders and, like Lonnie Frisby and Jesus people, Gordon Lindsay, and Voice of Healing, he kind of put those people together, Demos Shakarian Full Gospel Businessmen and some of these great people, they'll be talked about. They may not be as dominant, but their organizations were phenomenal. What they did, the revival. So that's what they're going well. Okay.
All right. Thank you for watching today. Can you can you come back next week for one more? Sure. I'm here because I want to talk to you about this year. I know you all have seen the Jesus Revolution movie and all that. I want to dive into Lonnie Frisby and dive into some of those that you just mentioned. It's in. You have your next Gods generals book I want to encourage you to go to the website RevivalRadioTV.com because there you can find all the past programs.
I mean, we have years and years worth. God has blessed us to be able to continue to have these programs on the Victory Channel mainly. But you find them now all over the world and we're so blessed to be a part. But you can go there, you can scroll through history on the revival timeline and understand more about what God's doing. Until next time. Remember, not only that, we love you and Jesus, Lord, remember that.
Stay close to God. Remember the mantles and callings of what you've heard today, because we are going to see the greatest revival ever. This last Great Awakening. Don't forget it. We'll see you next time.