Ryan Reed

We get to dive deep with him about creating this world, other source material that he's worked with in the past, and what he's gone on to in the future, as well as some exciting new prospects. Ryan is one of our favorite folks that we got to work with throughout the series and it is just such a lovely, wonderful human. We can't wait to share him and his mastery with you. Hello Ryan, how are you? Ryan? Howai? Buddy? I am great. Nice to see you guys. Good to see you too.

Thank you so much for joining us today. Oh, no problem, no problem. Where where are you Ryan? What are you? What are you up to? Um? Currently working on Amazon project in Scotland. So amazing. That's amazing. Congratulations, thank you, almost done, almost done you at that final push? Yeah, push, So that's why you see some wigs and stuff I'm in the trailer. Fantastic. Well, we could didn't do this season one rewatch and deep Dive without talking to you,

of course, Thank you for sure. Ryan. Why don't we start with them if you wouldn't mind telling us who you are, what your job was on the show, and maybe how you got involved in the show. Yeah, no problem. Well, Ryan Reid, I was the hair designer or the h o D shadow Hunter season one, and how did I

get involved in the show. I can't really recall who approached me for it, but I was really excited to work with Don Carmody, who was one of the producers, you know, because he did the original shadow Hunters movie and you know, pretty big producer at the time. So I decided, you know, it would be good to have that connect. And then it was the bonus was meeting all of you guys. Oh that's very sweet favorite so

far for saying that, Thanks very much. Well, we're just as we've been going back through you know, the episodes and everything else. It really is every single department, and you know, there were so many not only people but designers and artists that that really made the show what it was, particularly in season one as we were able to develop it given that it had been a movie and a book series and all these things, and you

were such a huge part of that. And you know, I've obviously done so many other things before and after, So um, start us off with how you got started in hair design and what was your original inspiration for this career path. Wow, that's a that's a great question, starting off with a super light question, Ryan, just like we're going to ease you right in. How did you decide what you wanted to do with your entire life?

Let's jump in right there. I'll be honest, Um, I kind of always loved the performing aspect of entertaining entertainment. But I'm not a good actor, So that that's really what it was. That can be true. That can't be true, because you're a very smiley guy and we had some shitty days on Shadow Hunters and you were still smiling. Like I've seen you act. I've seen it happen and it was flawless. This is true. No, No, I'm a real life in real life, I'm a good actor, but

I'm a horrible scripted actor. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, there's a big difference. So um no, you know what, It's just that I've kind of and hair was always a natural talent that I had, so it kind of went hand in hand. But I didn't know there was a viable job that I could do with hair and and the film and of course now that I'm in it, it makes perfect sense, but I didn't know how to get there.

I didn't know it was even an option. And luckily enough for me, one of my really good friends, she had started agency work doing makeup, and she's, you know, she discovered there was a need for me specifically, She's like, Ryan, we need you. I don't know why she said that, but she did, and so she helped get it, get me jobs doing music videos and such. So I kind of started off doing that and then the odd commercial and then one thing led to another union film work

and television, so that's kind of how it started. There's like a fun, sort of interesting parallel. I think that that I think people and potentially the listeners will think that are what we do is so different. But really the escalation of careers is normally fairly similar, like either commercials and music videos. Then someone sort of starts taking chances on you and you get smaller bits on bigger shows, and then bigger bits on bigger shows on movies or whatever. Like,

the actual progression steps are pretty pretty much the same. Arguably. Now, I one agree with that, and I kind of think it's important. It's important to take those baby steps, the non union things and the and the smaller stuff, because

then it prepares you for bigger things to come. Totally, you can kind of get your training wheels on and learn how a sit down set works and how you go about, you know, taking care of little problems that come up, because inevitably, we all know, as much as you plan and as much as you prepare, everything always goes wrong. And you have to roll with the punches. Yeah, quite literally, rolling with the punches in our case. You

gotta roll with the punch and you have to be creative. Yeah, you have to be creative rolling with those punches, I think, yeah, because I mean on film sets, it's all about creativity and time management. Totally. That's a really good point. Actually, you know, a lot of people focus more on the creativity side of what it is that we do. But there is a good deal that being there's a good

deal of it that goes into what we do. That is being creative on a time budget a lot of people don't necessarily consider, especially in your department, because which is actually, I think a very interesting thing that I I don't know if you've experienced this, but from my experience sitting in the chair having my hair and makeup done, it's a sort of congruent through line on any job that I've ever been as people will come in and be like, how much time do you need with these guys,

and like the answer is always I could release them now if you want to look like ship, Like I could let go of them right now, but the job is not done, Like I we need the time to do that thing. But it's it's so interesting because it is every set that I've ever been on, we we seem to have that similar issue. And the hair always takes the same and the makeup always takes the same, and I'm always on time, so I don't really know where that issue comes from, you know, like we haven't

changed any of the variables, so hopefully get it. Yeah, it's it's it's a tough one because people, Um, I feel like with hair, makeup, costumes specifically, that's where they try to crunch the time for the rest of the day for everything else. Was like, well, we set the tone in the morning, we're as fast as we can possibly be, really and but you know, it just kind of cracked the whips. Could you go faster because we're losing the light? What ever? I don't know. Yeah, it's

always something. There's you know, there's always a time budget and they're trying to figure out where to pull time from wherever they can. But you know what everyone benefits from having the time to have the job actually complete in the end, Right, I agree, Ryan. I have a question for you that I sort of have asked kind of everyone's thus far that we've had on especially about season one, and Cat and I have discussed this a little, um,

but we had there was this huge responsibility. As you mentioned, this movie had already been done once then it was a series of books that was incredibly popular, and there is this huge responsibility. Cat and I have discussed it from the point of view of creating these characters from sort of a physical or emotional sense, but a large part of how we looked was was you know level to you as your responsibility. So how did that feel? Was there was there like a trepidation to coming to

this or did you accept the challenge? And I personally think we all look fantastic, um, But but there is this level of like pressure that comes with you know what I mean, There's a level of pressure that comes with like, oh, there's gonna be a lot of eyes on this very quickly, you know what I mean? Yeah, you know it's it's interesting that you say this, And maybe I was a little naive not realizing how super

popular this show. I absolutely did love the movie and I knew that the But my thing with when you're recasting um and doing a series, I don't want I don't want the characters to look exactly like the characters did in the movie. I want a discussion with you whoever is playing that character to be their best version

of of that of that of that character. Like so like for example, Claire had shed red hair, but it didn't have to be the exact red that was in the movie, or you know what I mean, Like those were the things that their story points, but they don't have to be exact and for me, it's always like I rely than on you guys to do the rest, like you're acting skills to kind of like make it believable. And you know, we kind of set the foundation and

you build on that mm hmm would. And it's so important as well, you know, speaking about that because we I can speak from my point of view there and I think Ryan, I don't know if you remember, but the big like start of the transition to getting into character for me is my accent will change, obviously, and that starts sort of right at the beginning of the day, normally before I've even come in to get to see

you guys, UM. And then step number two is getting my hair and makeup done, and all of a sudden, I feel like my shoulders come back and I sit a little taller, and I'm starting to feel a little more like Jay's because that I'm starting to physically look like Jay's. I think for most actors, this is a big step to like, this is how we start our

day correctly, you know what I mean? And they and having having people who are professional, who are talented, who are nice as well as a huge huge benefit um really does start us off in the in the right direction. So thanks for being that guy, Ryan, Thanks for sting is out in the mornings, you know. And yeah, and

let me second that as well. You know, there's always I always end up in the hair and makeup trailer, even when you know there's downtime on set, because that's where it's just always a safe space and it's always usually pretty quiet when there's not a ton of people around and you can just sit and have a conversation

and be a human being for a few minutes. But also to echo what Dom said, there's something about particularly characters like this in the modern sense, that get up in the morning every day ostensibly and put themselves together. And so you creating whatever the hair is for that character is ultimately what that character would choose to do to themselves. So that's and and each little detail is a choice that that person is made, and it informs

so much about who they are. And when you look in the mirror, it's suddenly, as Dom said, you're you're becoming that person. You're putting on that mask. It's it's just another aspect of putting on the character every morning. And and to have someone who cares as much about that as we do is is a big deal. Yeah, and you know what, you guys do care a lot about it. And for me as a designer, I'm very aware of that and that transition that you guys make.

But also on the on the other side of it, to have two leads such as yourself, um with the good energy that you guys brought in every morning, that makes a world of a difference because then then that makes me be able to do my work really good. When you guys come in with the good energy and then it's reciprocal, then you guys are happy as well. So it's kind of like a full circle morning moment, morning moment that the circle, morning moment, more of those places,

more full circles. So talking about talking about the mornings and like trying to be in a good mood in the mornings, you know, because I think a lot of people don't really know really what goes into making a show with something like shadow or dark or light in the title, we spent a lot of time working at night, like a lot of time working in the evenings. Um So so I speak to us and tell tell, tell the audience a little about that because I can't and I have spoken about this quite a bit as well.

It is it was a bit of a shock to the system, and I think, did you do the strain before or after this? Oh? Did I do the strain before? I think I think I did the strain before shadow Hunters, and there was a lot of nights, so you were a little more used to it. I'm never used to You're never used to it. I hate nights. I hate you know, I'm obsessed. I was obsessed growing up with vampires, and um, I know I couldnot be one. No, I do not blackout curtains, Ryan, the most miserable vampire. Can

you imagine? This is forever? This is the restaurant forever. Wow, no nights, nights shooting. It's not my favorite. And I didn't anticipate. I did. I don't know why. I don't know why I did not anticipate, um nights. It's in the It's in the title shadow Hunters. We're hunting shadows, Ryan, I can't do it during the day, literally in the title like we I didn't either. I was just like, let's do it. This is gonna be great. New sets,

this is gonna be awesome. No night times, so many night times so many Fridays that rolled into Saturdays, and even to like break it down to the days, like we've been doing it for four months, and like I'll text Matt and I'd be like, we're in on Friday, but like, I don't think it's going to be that long. I'll meet you for drinks afterwards. Well, I fuck, what was I thinking? Like, absolutely not, I'm not finishing until

four on Saturday morning. There's no way. What was I thinking, Yeah, we'll have breakfast wine together at six am on Saturday morning. We never did that. Why did we never do that? That would have been to think about it. Yeah, very little thought that early in the morning when you've been working for twelve hours. I think everyone's just like in the car trying not to crash on all the home.

Those are my two two emmos. Yeah, we had other things on the mind, like making a TV show and oh my goodness, um, do you have any Is there a standout moment in Shadow Hunters one for you, like maybe as a favorite moment, but two as a moment where you were able to sort of look back and go, well,

we're actually doing something. This is really good because you never really know, you know, at least again from our point of view, you can be involved in the show and you can go this looks amazing and everyone hates it. Or you can be involved in the show and you're like, I'm really not sure about this and then everyone loves it. Like you just have no idea how it's going to be received. So I wonder if you had a moment where you saw it and went, oh, yeah, this is good.

Yeah if no, No, I never had the opposite. I'm super I'm super critical of my own work. But I think for me, satisfaction is when you are designing, like you know, just just the different types of creatures I guess, like the fairies, or you know, looking at like how we we did, like like the werewolf people or or the vampires or and and just seeing all these worlds

coming together and that there was a clear difference. Yeah, like I I I appreciate looking back at that, or or being on set and look at these these massive, you know, background days and saying, you know what this this works. It's believable. I believe that I'm in this specific place with these people and that you guys are kind of weaving your way through the crowds and you know, but stand doubt you know, and to me that that

makes a difference. Yeah, well that's just it. When we've spoken about this a lot in season one is that each episode sort of established a new aspect of the Shadow World, especially right at the beginning and we were on you know, such an insane schedule and and kind of you know, I know, Domini were just getting the script as we were shooting, basically, and so and I'm sure the same. I don't know if the same was

for you or not. If you were given a heads up, like, hey, you're doing vampires next week, you might want to think about that. Um. But it was always so impressive as we walked on the set and suddenly were, as you said, transported into this new world that was fully fleshed out from the set to the costume down to the hair of every single person on set. And so how much of that was you being able to bring your own

creativity into it? And how much did they let you kind of play versus how much did you know they kind of say we want X, Y and Z and or was it collaborative or how did that really work on the show. I'd be completely honest, they were are super open two everything that I came up with. Um, I don't think anyone any of the ideas were shut down at all. Well that's I think that's a huge compliment to you because they would shut down ideas, you know, I think I think they would be very open to

the concept of shutting down ideas. So I think what that means is you sense ideas and they liked them. You know that that's really what happened. Yeah, it's definitely a testament to you. Thank you know, it was it was fun, it was creative. It was really fun because I have been on other shows that it's more managed their expectations, which means really it's what the producers want, but not shadow Hunted. I found I didn't have that on that show at all. Amazing, so which is really good.

It's really really good. It was so fun. Yeah, let's talk about another questions just come to me. Let's talk about some of the difficulties where you add on shoutow answers. One of the big things that I think people don't they don't tell you ever, is that things like hair covering your face or like it not being perfect perfect, they don't like that, like they'll get the dailies and they're like, no, we're not about this, um, so make sure you know it's not covering the face or whatever

it is. And you're like, this is a martial arts based show which we're shooting outside like that. We have so little control over that sort of thing. So when you talk to talk to us a little bit about like the chaos that can ensue. Yeah, I mean, I think especially Jason's here falling in the face, that that's a thing, that that was a bit of a thing, and trying to get it right because it never never

looks super cool the way you think it looks. And then you're like, ah, that worked or that didn't work. How am I going to fix that so it looks better next time? Or can we just add more hairspray, more hairpins? I don't know much has so much? Did I put too much hair spray? You know? Gallons of hairspray went into Don's hair on season one alone, Like my hair had enough, But I'm used to that. But I can tell you towards the end, my memory wasn't very good. I was inhaling a lot. Nobody puts fire

near dom because a lot of hair spread. Yeah, maybe too much hair spray. I mean, you know it's it's but then I I mean, whether weather is always a big thing. So like I'm a lot forgiving now when I watch things on in movies or in television, because you never know what the situation is. You don't know if it's been raining or it's a misty, foggy day. There's moisture, there's snow. Who knows what the elements are? And lovely Toronto, so um, you can have all the

elements in one day. Yeah, you don't know, Like morning tonight, you don't know. It's you know, the morning it's like thirty degrees and it's sunny and everything's great, and the evening it's snowing and you're like, what the fuck tore on town and make up your mind. This is insane.

We we just did a rewatch of episode eleven, which was when we were out at the sort of English cottage in the middle of the field doing the green fire thing, and I remember Pierre, our first CD, had come on the walking and said, um, there's forty five minutes until a absolute pouring rainstorm front comes through and we already knew because my hair was flat and you were out there with the Dutane curly iron and an umbrella trying to you were humidity is not our friend, man,

It's just not our friend. No. Yeah, I think that's another thing actually that we should talk about. And again, you know, anyone who's never been to a set or is in any way unfamiliar with how a set works is um touches. It's called touches. Before every take of every scene, hair and makeup come in and you get anywhere between forty seconds to maybe a couple of minutes to make our makeup look fresh. Now the first scenes of the day, that's not normally too much of a

big deal. I haven't done very much. We've only been there for an hour. Nobody swept through their makeup that I've I've managed to restrain running my fingers through my hair for the first twenty or thirty minutes of the day. When we get to sort of literally the eleventh hour of being on set, ship start to get a little looser and that thirty seconds of touches isn't necessarily enough.

So these the teams that come on, these like heroes that come on and just quickly go, how do we have this morning Okay, great, where were you just previously to this scene because it has to match that, or if we haven't filmed it yet, then let's make it simple because it has to We will have to match it at the end of the next scene and do all of those sort of these like astronaut calculations in

your heads instantaneously and then quickly touches up. So tell us tell us a little about that again, like the sort of calm chaos that happens when someone else touches yea, yeah, that that's basically you st that's it. It is the chaos or just chaos or just kid. I mean, you know, there's so many touches, you know, in between takes, especially for you guys with the fighting, Like the fighting scenes is the one, and it's just trying to keep the continuity.

It can be tough. It could be tough. You have to be on top of it, that's for sure. Well and you certainly are. And now, obviously you've worked on a huge variety of genres over the years, and starting on according to our research, uh, Degrassi was something you did sort of earlier on in your your film and TV career, So that's very different from them coming into this world of creatures and demons and things like this, but you know, sort of tell us a little bit

about what that experience is like for you. So Degrassi Grassy was fun. Dirass was my first, um because I did the music videos and then um, when I my first type of union work actually was on a kind of like a music video show that was Cheetah Girls because there was a lot of dancing. Yeah that's the idea. Yeah. So but then when I but I was still an

assistant around those times. So then when I did to Grasp You was my first apartment heading type show and you get an ensemble cast of eighteen kids, um who that season, especially the girls decided to all get extensions down to their butt, great length extensions. Yeah, They're all coming in the morning with soaking wet hair that you had to get them then ready within like you know, two hours with no assistance. By the way it was.

It was It was a lot of work, but it was but it was also fun because you know, you got to be contemporary. Um. And the thing is I really wanted to bring them up because previously, especially Degrassi, they um would kind of do their own hair and

makeup interesting. Yeah. So so then kind of like when I started, maybe the season before I started, when they actually started having hair and make like people do, like actually do them, and they wanted them to kind of be um a little more contemporary and up with the other shows that were their competitive shows at the time, like the O C and whatever. Um, So that's what I tried to do, and it was it was a lot of work, but it was fun. Um you know, meant Drake Graham, so he's a cool guy, a little

a little behind the scenes, hometown, Toronto history, good stuff. Um. Talking about assistance and teams and stuff like that. So you, from my sort of fairly limited knowledge, you as a head of department, get to pick your team. So how does that happen? Do you have people who travel with you? Do you have a group that you don't want to use? Do you especially you know, Toronto I think is sort

of the fairly local show. So I would imagine have a group of people or that like we're going to take a chance on these ones or how does that work? How does assembling your team work? So it's not easy. Um, there are people that you use for certain projects. And also I think you do take a chance on other people and see how it works. Sometimes it doesn't. Like personalities, mixing personalities can be difficult at times, and I do have might go to people for sure when they're available.

Like I mean, for where I am right now, I couldn't bring anybody, but I did thankfully meet some great people. So how does that work when you meet people? Is it like auditioning or like just applying for a job. You send a resume? Like what how does that? Give them a wig? And say quick click do your style? Click, make this happen, make this, and then hit them with a hose like we're gonna be filming. Are you doing yet? Are you doing yet? Well, it's it's tough. It's tough, man,

I'll be honest. You kind of look at people's cvs and and hope that they're truthful. Um with some of the things that they have on their CVS or their experience. That's interesting. Yeah, well here's the thing. Oh my god. Somebody could be part of a team but have a very small role to play, um, and then there's others that have that are that have huge roles on that same team. So you don't really you never really know

what you're walking into with somebody new. It could be a great experience or it could be a bit challenging at times. So it's really really tough. Back home, I kind of know the talent pool to pick from, and and also there's people that are amazingly talent, but your your personality just don't mesh yeah, because I'm like, I try to be drama free, so you know, I try to pick the people where like we we just get along and don't butt heads. Hey, well that's so. I

think that's so smart. We've spoken about that just from our point of view briefly, and I think in any career, I don't understand why people wouldn't like, if I have the choice between working with someone that I know as a decent human being versus someone I know as a dick, there's a fairly clear choice of whom I'm gonna go with, Like there's you know, and then adding the like I know people who for example, don't work well like at nights or under time, crunches or that sort of thing,

and I'm like, this is going to be that kind of show. I don't know if this is the right thing for you to do. You're fantastic or what you do. But if you're going to start letting things slip here and there, because these are the parameters that we're gonna be working under. Um. But it's it's funny that you mentioned lies on the CV and CAT. It's even funnier that you're surprised, Like we're actors. All we do for a living is a lie about what we do. That's

all we do for you know what I mean. Like someone approaches us and they're like, hey, this show shadow Hunters came up. Have you ever done any martial arts? And I'm like, me fucking black belt over here? Yeah, man, I'm black belt in Quigan, low to new one. Yeah, but yeah, I'm great. And then you just gotta pick it up. You gotta figure it out, Like can you ride a horse? Oh yeah? Oh yeah. They used to call me captain a question as a kid. For sure. Yeah.

I know how to ride all the different brands of horses, no idea, but you've got to figure it out. I don't know, man, I have too much of the guilt complex. I'm like, well, a little bit. I don't know. I did it once in girls camp. Um, but I can learn. But but you know that's important, and I think it's important for people to be honest with other people and themselves.

Just be like, I'm not great at that, learn how to do it better, or I don't know how to do that, And I'd remember someone tell me they don't know how to do something, and I can work with that, as opposed to saying sure I could do that and then they can't totally. Yeah, yeah, that's a really good point. Actually, that's really good lesson for for any aspect of this industry and kind of for life for you know, our

listeners out there. To take away that if you don't know how to do something, if you're unsure, if you don't necessarily feel confident, it's okay to admit that and to reach out to someone for guidance because someone you know, as kind and wonderful as you is more than happy to teach as well as employee. And yeah, I would I would rather be honest, and I would like you said, I would rather, and then I could teach some you know, my way of doing it and be like, hey, it's

not the only way this works for me. If you find a better way, then you can do that. I'm actually I think a little too lenient as people take advantage of that. But you know what it is, what

it is interesting is there? So that's an interesting question then, I guess because it's well, I think there's a there's a trap that people can fall into, both on our side of this industry and from the viewers side, that like, oh, you've made it like you've learned all of the things that you need to learn, and that's just simply not the case, Like it doesn't matter what level you're at,

like you're you're constantly learning new things. And I think it's a dangerous precedent to set to tell people that that's not the case, and to either work with or be around people who think that their their cup as full as it were that they could there is no more for them to learn, because then like what are we doing here? Like where are we going? What's the

next step? You know what I mean? And you know what, now that I'm getting a few years older in life, I have no tolerance whatsoever for that stuff, honestly, Like this is something you just mentioned, like you know, as the years go on, I'm in my thirties now, Ryan, I was like late mid twenties when you and I met it was it was like a long time ago. Now we filmed that stuff a while ago, Like it

really took me. This whole thing has been so lovely because we do get to go to this real trip down, like wow, that was like closing in on a decade ago that we did that, which is wild, but that you know, hopefully you'd still have some fairly fund memories, like what are your favorite days that we did? Obviously, well not the nights. Will accept that that wasn't super fun nights, Tom. We were pretty entertaining some nights. I'll

tell you that. I'm sure our Shenanigans got gout silly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think. I think I really like whatever the days were when we're at the studios. I really enjoyed the studio days. I don't know why, but I really just liked being at the studio better than the locations. But

the locations were fun too. I think there was a lot of like the funny thing is I can't pinpoint it, but there was a lot of fun stuff with you guys, like on a whole I would say, just and then when you all got together in between takes, because I'm I like two people watch and I literally could just sit there and just watch you guys just interact with each other, just going at each other. That's the fun.

It was a good group, I would say, a good group of people together, you know, with the different personalities. But it but it worked exactly. It worked, yeah, which I which is interesting because it easily couldn't have done, you know, with such such like vastly different people from such vastly different backgrounds, it very easily couldn't have worked out, and it just did. Um, you should have come back

to season two. Man, we had temperature control in the studio, no more like forty degree studios with the camera's breaking down. It was great. It was amazing. Fine, it took us a year, but we got it. But but you you know, you were in the trenches with us. It was pretty wonderful, but you know, you were obviously off doing other amazing things. That's the tricky thing. Like you get used to someone who's so good at their what they do, and it

makes them, it makes them incredibly popular. So it's like, I can't come back because I'm now doing this other thing that they wanted me to do, and I'm like, why did they get to have you. That doesn't seem super fair. We we enjoyed having you was going on there, I know, and that happened time and time again on shadow Hunters, and that happened so much. We're always so proud of people going on and doing other things, but we missed you. I will say, Um, it is one

of my favorite horror franchises. I found out, Yeah, And when I found out you were responsible for the penny Wise look, I definitely fan girls and I had a moment of pride and maybe maybe shed a happy tear. So tell us about that. Well, it's a it's not bitter sweet because it was more sweet than bitter. But I will be honest, I had a bit of a hard time leading up to that because I had worked on a show, and I think because I was very tired, like stretching myself to the limits, and it really took

his toll on me. And I was like, I don't think I have thick enough skin to be in this industry anymore. I just don't want to work with people that are assholes fair enough, or like you know, actively you know, do things to just mess with you for no good reason at all, And you're like, I don't

get it, like why are people so mean? And I was like I don't, I don't And then and then you don't you think, well, if they're like this now and this is like a small like a small pool, what happens if you go to a bigger pool and everyone's like that. I don't think you're going to be able to swim with the you know, the big boys or girls whatever, you know. And I was like, so, I was like, I don't know. Then I got a phone call and one of my friends, she's like, could

you come up to work on this movie? And I was like no, you know what, I don't. I don't think, so I think I just need to take some time off. And then I got another phone call from another friend and they're like, so, Ryan, could you just come and work on this movie. You'll just be with the prosthetic guys. All you gotta do is put a wig on a clown. And I was like, oh, no, like a clown and they're like, well, it's Penny Wise. And I talked to

a few of my friends like he's iconic. You have to do and I was like, I don't know about no clown. And then so when then you know, the prosthetic guys are like, no, no, they're really good guys. They're like, you'll just be with us. You're not gonna be anybody else. It's going to be fun. And said, okay, fine, And that was one of the biggest decisions I made and probably one of the best decisions I made, and

has such a good time on that movie. I'm so happy that I made that choice, not the other choice. Oh that's amazing. Yeah, oh, great news, because I was Yeah, I mean, we know obviously sat in the hair and makeup trailer, like before you started the story, we knew that this wasn't gonna end with you quitting hair and makeup, you know, I mean, like we can see that that's

not the case, but there is that concern. Like I think any actor, artist, anyone in this industry worth their soul has had that question in their mind at least one point where they're like, man, I don't know, this is this is much harder than and people do describe it as very difficult, Like normal people will be like, if you want to do it, it's tough, and everyone goes to that point where they're like, I don't know,

Like this is too much. This, this is more than a human being is meant to sort of deal with on a daily basis. So let me just speak for me the fans of Shadow Hunters and the many, many fans of the franchise. Let's say thank you to your two friends who begged you to come and be a part of it and rejuvenate your loneliness. Yeah, it was really,

it was so fun. And it's also it sounds like, at least it's a testament to the Toronto film community as well, which I know all of us have a very large fondness for and and it is something that is a supportive family of that nature. And that's one of the things I love most about Toronto and about

you and everyone else that I met doing Shadow Hunters. Everyone, it is a community, and you all do tend to, you know, support each other and know each other and bring each other into things and lift each other up when you're going through these moments. And that's that's such an important thing. We spend more time with each other than we do, you know, with our own families and families. Yeah yeah, and you need that did that support system

to get through those uh those days. You totally need that support system, but so happy I did that, so fun So um Andy Machette, who's amazing. I love Andy so much. He's such a good dude, such a good dude. Him and his sister Barbara, they're like amazing to work to work with. And um he basically because he was a storyboard artist, he drew the picture and they kind of already had it assembled. But Andy was like, you know, could you do a little bit more of this and

a little more of that. And I took the wig and I had to really you know, fix it up and do my little touches to it, and then that became the iconic Pennywise. Look amazing, that's incredible. How many did you have? How many wigs did you have? Because there's a lot of like blood and gore and special

effects in that you have. There was when the gun, the blood gun goes awry, there was two wigs, and then then there was a third, so technically there was three wigs, but two of this kind of the same, but one was the hero and one ended up being the stunt double. And then in the first movie there was a kind of other scenes where all of a sudden it kind of grew long. I don't know why, but those are the those were the three wigs, Like, I don't know all Andy's like, wow, that seems that

seems like a brave choice to only have the two. Yeah, could you clean You worked with actors before, like smoking or whatever, and something happens like, well, i'll tell you Bill, Bill scars Garnd is amazing and he was very respectful of the process, very respectful of the makeup and the hair and everything. So he was such a professional. So it's such a trooper um. But yeah, like the it didn't get messed up, believe it or not. So I mean, yes,

I was able to clean it. I was able to recolor, I was able to, you know, do all sorts of stuff and it was pretty good. And so I for the first movie, I was just his I guess hair personal guy, and then the second movie, I was the department head. I was in the movie for two seconds, guys, two seconds really. So there's a scene with macavoy where he is in the studio at the beginning of the movie, like talking to his like wife. He's an actress. I'm

the hairdresser that's doing her hair. That's okay, Oh, no way, it's amazing, Wow, they snuck you. Was that just one of those conversations like we've I know, I've done this before movies where they're just like someone didn't show up, or like we just need someone like and they're like, hey, Ryan, you know what you're doing with hair. Could you come and make this look real for us for a second,

something like that, something like that. He he wanted to get a lot of the crew in that whole scene, so um, Peter Bodanovich was like supposed to be the director of that whole thing. So all the crew that was there was really the crew of the movie. It's so cool. No way, Wow, that's awesome. What a nice idea. That's a really cool that's yeah, that's a really cool way of of doing it. The hard work of the crew.

So then so you worked with Isaiah twice obviously because Isaiah yes two we It's so funny because we had a he got cast than it I think in between season three and what should have been season four, and

obviously we got canceled in between. So the script came out for these last two episodes that we ended up doing, and it literally says in the script and the stage directions it says Luke Enters uncharacteristically clean shaven, and we were all like, then does that mean sure enough, his beard's gone, But it's because he'd done it in the middle and he had to shave for it, so he had to. All of a sudden he turned up and he just had no beard, which I thought was great.

Which he had never seen him without facial hair. We'd known the man for almost five years and had never seen him clean shaving. It was well, I mean, he looks amazing no matter what it's. Isaiah was like, you can't make him look bad if you try. But but oh my gosh, it was. It was a new revelation for all of us. I think, um, so this moves is on quite neatly to one of my favorite news shows, The Umbrella Academy. Loved the like he loved The Umbrella Academy.

The kid the Kids who plays the forty year old I can't remember his name. Oh my god, he's aid In Aiden Aiden. Aidan Gallagher plays number five. I did a movie with Emmy over the Pandemic. Yeah, she's like just a sunshine of a human. Yeah, yeah, I this is what I think is so funny when you watch a show like that, and you watch these kids and you're like, I'm quite a bit older than you, and I would love to be that good, and I don't

think I am that good, And that's really annoying. Like you're doing a better version of an adult than I do in my sort of day to day, which is really like it's a trippy thing to deal with. Um, are you did you come back for season three? What did you do on the Umbrella Academy? I just said season one? Season one? Yeah, well I just this season one because then I went and did it too. That

makes sense. Okay, that begs the question. Then tell us a little bit about that, because again, that's another completely different world in this same kind of genre of sci fi superheroes and supernatural and all of this. So you were coming in to a completely new universe. So what was that. How was that experience for you having done Shadow Hunters and It and then coming into this, Yeah,

it was. It was so fun. Umbrella was really cool. Um, I guess once again, like just kind of creating the the characters like and then what their personalities were was really really really cool. Um. But also because it was based off of a comic book. We really didn't stay true to the the looks of the books. We kind of just said, okay, let's created a new thing, um, which was kind of fun, which I I don't know

it was. It was a little bit. It was a way different than shadow Hunters in that respect because it was what I did it. It was kind of contemporary based also shadow Hunters, but everyone kind of like had a normal ish look. Wasn't too out there, well because it existed in the real world, in the contemporary world, like, oh well, it was hidden. So it was this you know, you didn't have to look like a normal person walking

down the street, whereas these guys had to look. In fact, even more so because at the beginning of season one, these guys are all somewhat hiding who they are, right, so they have to be able to just mix into like the world. Um, well, I think you did a brilliant job. I loved that show. Thanks you. I really wish they had more like monkeys in it, more cgi monkeys. Is there were there more monkeys in the car. I never read the comic and the comic books bunch of them.

It was just a matter of fact, like, oh, there's just you know, Mr. So and so or Mrs so and so walking down the street. So I wish he had a few more of those, but anyways, the one we had was really good. That's fascinating. See, these are the things that things that you learn that nobody ever gets to know until we talked to the people who were behind the scenes of the whole thing. Yeah, no, that was fun. Once again, that was another great bunch

of ball together. That was was awesome, you know, Hopper, like every everybody any Tom's doing amazingly now as well, Like there are I like he is anything that's sort of going for like a handsome British guy. Tom's our guy. Tom's the guy getting it and then like a bitch, Tom guy really happy for you. He's supposed to be the nicest human being as well. He's supposed to be so sweet, which makes it really difficult to be like jealous and annoyed. You know, I've heard nothing but good

things about him, and I'm like that's wonderful. Yeah, challenged and handsome and successful. He couldn't have been a dick like that would have made it easier, you know what, Dom He's just he's just too tall, dumb, He's too tall? There is How tall is he? How tall is he in real life? I don't know, six maybe six four? Maybe he's not that tough. But why did I ask? I knew I was gonna ask. I knew it was gonna upset me. Why did I ask? I'm like, I'm like,

I'm already I look very next. Yeah, for sure, for sure, for sure? Ryan? What is is there anything you're excited about sharing or like talking about what you've got coming up? Oh? Well, I mean it's announced, so I think I could talk. I can't really talk about it, but I could talk about that. There is a Netflix movie coming out. It's called Slumberland, so that would be a cool one. Jason Momoa is in it, and that's not a secret, it's

it's it's been announced. So that's not like Dreamland one. Right, It's like Netflix is Alice in Wonderland kind of deal. It's like the dream she gets she can like figure out a dreamland. I think I just read something about this, so there you go that you said most of it kind of the same. Yeah, I don't want to get you in any trouble, but I think I don't think

there's any trouble. I mean it's called Slumberland. Yeah, yeah, I don't I don't know if they've really said much about it, but you know you got to just say right, yeah, Ryan, Yeah, And they can't fire me from that show, although maybe they could they like imagine if Netflix heard the podcast and they were like, well, you did just say this thing about our other Netflix shows. So I think we're going to actual contracts from the show that you're on now.

It made a huge mistake, no, um, from that. I mean I literally just got hired on a on a series yesterday. Well congratulations. I can't talk about that one yet, congratulations. Yeah, yeah,

of course, Um, we actually did. We kind of paved over one as well, because it was like, it's just occurring to me that you sort of we're fairly responsible for like some pretty iconic looks over the last like five ten years, from the Umbrella Academy to the franchise, and we kind of skipped over Star Trek, like you Trek, because again, that's something as you've talked about with the comic book for Umbrella Academy or the books for Shadow Hunters. This is I mean, this is Star Trek. It's one

of the biggest sci fi fantasy franchises ever ever. Well, Um, I mean, and I did season one of Star Trek Discovery, which was really cool to work on because we had Sneka, Martin Green, Michelle Yo come on, Oh my God, and and many more that I can't remember the names right now, but it was it was really fun. Jason Isaacs, Jason Isaacs, I love Jason. You called my dad a pilot, ago

is it? Listen? I kept trying to get him to put a white wig That's where my head would have been as well, or just have him say once, just all I need is once. I can use it as like my ringtime I need. Yeah, he did not love that stuff, but um, he's so nice. He's so nice, So Jason Isaacs. Who else was? Anyways? There was a

there was a lot of great people on that one. Um. What was fun about that show is I got to really tell a story through hair and hair texture, and that it's literally like the first black female lead of a Star Trek series ever, and that we got to tell the story through her hair. Um. Season one, because she is a she like a captain or something. What was she? She? She was and then she kind of um, you know, she she was raised Vulcan and she had you know, kind of like this short kind of crop

smooth hairstyle. And then as she does a mutiny and goes to prison and then her hair is natural and so she's got the short, natural kind of hair, which was amazing to work with Snequa and to collab with because my we really wanted to show like that through texture, like hair texture, to be proud of it, like we don't have to have straight hair as as a black woman. You can have your natural texture. And to me, that

was so important to showcase that. Yeah, I remember reading articles about that when it came out in all the trades. It made such a big splash and made such a an impact for so many people. And I mean the fact that you know you are largely responsible for that, that's a incredible and be something to be really proud of. Oh, it was so fun. It was so fun, I mean, and then we got to do like other stuff. We got like you know, Vulcans and Clingons, although the Clingons

had no hair that season. One thing I can say, even though there is a level of creativity, there's also a level of definitely everything has to be approved by the higher ups, and so there was a few times where you kind of feel like it's pulled back a little bit, unlike Shadow Hunters. So there's a bit of that in that world, which I wish that I could have pushed the envelope a little bit more, but there's

only so far that it could have went. But that's okay. Um. I didn't do season two, but I went back for season three because at season two I was doing Umbrella Academy and then I went back for season three. It's like, it's, honestly like you you come in and do a season one and then find the next season one, Like what

other revolutions can I make in hair? I mean, I want to start something new and then yeah, I guess I'll come back and do your one as long as there's not another season one or another like Stephen King iconic horror thing that I need to put together. Like just like I like making things, I like making the start for everything and making everyone love the hair, and then I'm just going to piece out for the world building guy. The world building guy. Honestly, no, you know

what it is. Really, it's you just kept like people keep offering your other jobs and then if there's a lull in between the next season picking up. Sometimes you just have to take the thing that's in front of you. And that's kind of what has happened why I don't end up sometimes coming back unless they literally tell you from the get go we're doing X amount of seasons

and we want you for all of them. It's really hard sometimes, Like with you guys your options, like you you have to do X amount of seasons, whereas us it's like they don't do that for the regular crew, right, So that's how sometimes we get we have, you know,

we get snatched up by other projects. Yeah, and I'm sure you do because you're so good, Like you know, that's what we're sort of briefly touching on earlier, Like if you're good at creating this stuff, if you're good at what you do, and you're a nice person mixed in with that as well, why wouldn't people be snatching you up a bank? It isn't you know what I mean? Like it's a very easy thing to be like, of

course we're going to take him over to us. They're they're snapping you up across the pond now, all the way in Bonnie, Scotland, Bonnie Scotland. How Bonnie is it though? Is it nice there? Scotland gets about two weeks of nice weather a year. It is um currently raining, so not so Bonnie today. It's Bownie down here where I am. I know London's having a lovely summer and it's beautiful.

Scotland's not, so what a pity? Um Well, Ryan, I just want to say, first of all, thank you so much one for the amazing things you did for us in our show, for starting all the mornings off with a smile, and and then for coming on the show and being able to share some of this behind the scenes experience that just nobody really gets to hear about. So it's really special that we get to share this stuff. So thank you so much. Jude listen, I appreciate it. Yeah,

and it's it really is such an incredible thing. You know, it's been so many years, and the fact that you were so kind to come back and chat with us, and truly, you know, clearly, given the vast expanse of your work, you are a master at what you do and we wanted to celebrate that. So thank you for for coming on and chatting with us and reconnecting and returning to the Shadows as it were. Thank you, thank you guys for having me. This is this pleasant surprise.

I'm glad. I'm really glad. I'm so glad I did this and you guys. I've been watching you guys and your careers and I'm really happy when I see you guys on the Telly so amazing. Hopefully our possible cross again soon, right, Hopefully it's not too long before we get to work with each other again. Everything fucking films in Toronto, so I'm sure we'll be up there at some point. I know. Yeah, it's a big world, but a small house. It'll happen, for sure, We'll make it happen. Well, Ryan,

enjoy your dance set. It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much again, seriously, thank you. Take care of yourself all right. Return to the Shadows just hosted an executive produced by me Dominic Sherwood and Katherine McNamara. Our executive producer is Lingley. Our senior producers are Liz Hayes and Diego Tapia, and our producers are Hannah Harris and Kristin Vermilion. Original music by Alex Kinsey performed by Alex Kinsey and Katherine McNamara,