Adam Kenneth Wilson

On the other hand, I'm not gonna lie. I'm not being as environmentally responsible as I should be right now. And the central air it's happening. So I get it. I get it, and sometimes you just got to lean in. I get it. I climate control when I was there was was so key and getting it so exactly right, because especially when it was cold, when it was really cold and you come back into your apartment, your apartment

was really hot. Yeah, messed with my That just messed with my whole body and would make me sick pretty quickly because my body would jump from one to the other. So I would have to keep it cool but not too cold, because I didn't want to sleep in the cold.

I wondered about that when you when you guys were doing like exterior stuff, especially like as you mentioned on the previous cast with the rain towers or whatever, and then you go into like the hot lights, the heated are it like did the contrast make you want to drop to your knees or like? It was a lot. I mean, but they obviously took really great care of us with you know, as many ferny blankets and wetsuits and things that they could. But yeah, it is, it is.

You know, it's a shock to the system for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've I've done a couple of things that are extreme, Like I want for this friend of mine who does these weird love crafty and things. I did it a short for him, and we were scheduled to be in the winter in northern Ontario. The weather side it was going to be fine, and it ended up being like minus forty with sleet and and uh, the good news

is there was no contrast. And later I realized that it's better to have had the comfort and never had that and just be like plowing through this until I can just find someplace to heal and survive. Yeah, I agree with you, don't let your body, like, let yourself acclimatize to it as much as you can, Like, we're going to be in this for a minute. Let's just live in this world. This is going to be our day. And then when I can get warm, I'm going to

get warm for goods. But I don't want to go warm cold warm, cold, because my bodiesn't know what to do with that. And it's like, dear, dear PMS coordinators, let's make sure, yeah, kar in mind, we're not freezing and thawing the talent to a degree that they might

be a new something. Now Dom, and I learned that pretty quickly on Shadow Hunters actually, and now Dom, I don't know if you've had this experience when you're on another set and you're not constantly throwing your warming jacket on between ticks, people get so concerned that are you sure we can bring you your jacket if you're cold, And it's it's that thing of notes. I need to have stasis so I'm not jarred every time they call action.

Oh for sure, for sure. And then also to you ever, have you ever either ever had that situation where someone makes you so comfortable that you're not that you can't be as uncomfortable as the character is. And you're like, now, yeah, act the discomfort that I could have just walked three has been uncomfortable. Yeah, Adam, will listen, mate, Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for being a part

of this with us. Um, you had such a pivotal role in in season one, and I think a role that very quickly and in large thanks to you became sort of a fan favorite, was one of my personal favorites as well. Um, so why don't we start by by introducing yourself to the listeners and and tell us how you can involved in Shadow ins is what the processors like through that? Sure? Okay, So my name is Adam Kenneth Wilson. Hello, Shadow Fam, and thank you for the love, the so much love that you've given to

ragnar Fell. And well we'll get onto Shadow Fam and we'll talk about what that is and what that means and how startlingly beautiful the gift of the Shadow FAM's love and community is. But but for me when I when I got involved in it, um, I had been aware of the existence of the film The Mortal Instuments, which, as we know, the lovers of the original work did

not connect with in the way. I think someone said to me that they someone who was being kind once about my little visit into the show, had said that, Um, as much as they thought it was an interesting representation the original Shadow Hunters, they did not necessarily feel represented by it. The film did not feel like it was a representation of the community. They didn't manifest themselves into those characters in the way that you later would allow

them to. And I thought that really interesting that there. I don't know, I don't know what the what the man check sauces or or what it is, but when people can view you as a portal into that experience in a way that they just were seeing manifested externally, that's that's a beautiful thing. Um. So obviously you brought some some kinds of universal humanity or some kinds of I don't know, I guess truth in what could have just otherwise been more of a flat or hollow genre

project that people got really emotionally invested into it. But so for me, I knew the film existed, I and I via that knew that the books existed, but I hadn't really taken much of an interest in them. I read uh, the moral instruments. As soon as I found out that these auditions were happening, Um, I read it and Stephanie Goren was the Canadian casting and she and I already have a relationship. She's I've done some odd

and genre things with her in the past. Although this is interesting because I wanted to kiss her because I and I don't want to say that film and television media has a type, but when you have a triangular chin and deep set beat eyes and you're a bit on the pale end, you tend to take on characters who are exclusively villainous, and so it was beautiful for me to I At one point I thought about having a business cards printed that said I'm not telling you

cops curse word. And because I was playing so much of that and to Tom be offered this character who comes off as this could be a menacing character, this could be someone who's a threat to Clarifray. When she discovers him, and then there is a love and a beauty and a support offered, I was like, h m hmmm. Um. I've always always, always been fascinated by anything that is genre, particularly in mystical stuff. I was one of those Lord

of the Rings kids. I was raised with Catholic mythology and Christian mythology, and so interesting that lists you with a sense of longing for those supernatural elements in your life, the fascination with angels, demons of war and the and all of that stuff. And once, once I had kind of excluded that from my actual practical day to day life,

I was like, you need you search. We're searchers, were pattern creatures, and we're always looking for the mystic and we're always looking for the poetry in the universe, and like this, this realm, it's there's so much poetry and so much magic and all of those things that you know, a lot of people long for. I'm one of those. So I'm like, well, you guys, you've manifested these characters so well, and you I know you you you had some vampiric experience, and I know you can't have it.

You can't have been superheroes as well as you know, mystical superhero superhero superheroes in the sense of you know, Miss Smoke and the like. You must sometimes look at yourself as like we are the modern myth tellers. We are the we're telling the heracles of our day. We're telling the whichever those things are. And I think that this, this realm, in the shadow realm is is just a beautiful like welcome to the New dance, Welcome to the new You know, I don't want to much, but the

other stiff too. Anything you want on this podcast. But it's something that I've always loved about the shadow world as well. And I think you hit the nail on the head, is that, Yes, it's all of these mystical, fantastical creatures that we grew up reading about and we love reading about, and it's it's rooted in mythology of every culture, but it's it's also very rooted in the reality of our world today, and it's woven into the

world that we all experience. And so there's it sort of fulfills that longing that you're talking about, which is why I think so many people connect to this particular mythology. For sure, speaking of you doing a fantastic job in this role, I was convinced you were British, absolutely convinced.

I think I asked you, didn't I ask you where in England you're from, because you and I had that conversation where you're like, are you Are you an educated Londoner who's muting down your accent to sound like you're from a more read, generalized place or a regional guy who was trained to sound more English and um, And that was such a gift to me because I really really appreciate I have spent a lot of time playing with my voice, a lot of time as a very

hush hush side gig. I have done some dialect coaching in the past. Cool, but I might be one of those people. Um, no offense to any of the other you know American folks, very talented and lovely American folks who are around. But I was raised with better television,

dum um. I was raised with with UK television. And so whether it was something as simple as my nan watching Corey, or whether it was you know, um, any of the good lord the crime procedurals that so would harold a new age of lesser American crime procedurals and ending yeah, I would say probably by the time I was let's say ten, um, I would have known the difference between something that approximates some more educated London or someone who's who's um, who's from the North who's not

afraid to be from the of or someone who's from the North but is trying to sound like they're actually more London than they are. That's very impressive, amazing, thanks to me God. Like a voices of fingerprint, right, it's this beautiful. It belongs to someone and and it identifies them in this way, so the way some people will smell someone's perfume or catch uh light, the glint of a light in their eye that goes, oh, that's the color your eyes are when the weather is like this.

To me, the sound of someone's voice is what evokes all of that poetry and all that Like it's a gift to me to get to hear your voices again now because I hear them and I go, oh, I remember as soon as you said that to me when I were standing outside of Ragner's house facing it from this angle. And uh, that's that's the magic. That's memory, trigger the ability and is the set you right. It's the same with so many of the senses that like

touch and smell and tay. You can taste something and it will take you back to the restaurant you first had it out, or whoever first cooked it for you

and you remember it so implicitly. Um, it was really cool and it's a gift for us to be honest, to be able to to actually give that compliment to to a non British person, because you're right, it's it's a difficult accent to to get ahold of, and because there are so many regions in such a small area, getting the specificity of whatever that accent is is really difficult.

It's difficult for me to do regional British accents, so to hear someone not from the UK be able to do it to the extent that I thought you were from England is not only mind blowing, but a real asset to you and then obviously to us in the show. That's and and the Shadow fam were like extremely kind about it out there, you know when when that episode aired and people were like, thank god they got a brit to do that. I was like, yeah, thank you,

thank you so much. Funny. That's great. Speaking of the specificity of the creation of this character, there's so many elements of Wragner that became iconic, be it your voice or his look, or his house or the horns and the the slight reference to the green skin so tell us a little bit about what that process was like for you once you kind of got on set. Were you involved or did they have it all set or kind of what what was your experience through the creation

of Wagner. Now, I'm not gonna lie to you. I tried to be a little pushier during our exchanges about Wragner than was popular, because normally, when you're in the position that I am, and you're guessing in and you're coming to this family that already exists, and you're I mean, you've guessed it on something. I know you're not doing a lot of guessing right now on the big stuff,

but you've guessed. You've guessed it on stuff, and when you do, you tend to come in, look around, go oh, that's how we're doing this, and you don't rock the boat. I didn't get into a fight, but I did get pretty heated about my insistence that he should be green, because once I started searching everything, once I'd read the books, then I saw what fans out there were doing. You know, you look at what they're doing, you look at their fan art, and it meant a lot to them that

was green. It meant a lot to them that he had the smaller horns placed you here rather than larger, broader horns here. And um, I saw this consistent representation and what they wanted and what they were expecting, and I did. I thought for it, and I tried to get it. But as I'm sure there were many a conversation with you where you had invested h certain research or certain decision making sets into your characters. And then network is going to have their views, and production is

going to have their views. And don't get me wrong, I think what Paul Jones did was beautiful. I think the horns that he gave me were magnificent, and he and his assistants did some great, great work. But then see, here's the here's the kicker. I could have talked myself out of a gig because if they had really followed me and given me the horns I wanted and the green skin I wanted, they would have insisted on an actor who more accurately represented the visual age of the

character the way the fans had been. Right, So, so do you want it to be booked perfect? No? I don't. I think this guy, this is the right guy. But let's get the details, you know, So so we met in the middle and we did exactly what they wanted. Yeah, which is how it very often goes in my experience. Yeah, it's a lot like a relationship. You know, I wanted I wanted a cat, my girlfriend wanted a dog, so we met in the middle when we got a dog. You know that whole thing. Cats and dogs, man, I

love them so so much. I have an unhealthy relationship with my cat Nigel, who may turn up at some point. I don't know. He's a massive himily and fluffy boy. I would wear him in one of those Baby, you have a main can. What is your address? I'm just asking, of course, ocean. Trust me, I've wanted to struggle. You have no idea how far I'll go to steal a beautiful cat. Yeah, she's honestly, she's a bit of a nightmare.

She's just discovered the entrance to the like the ottoman storage in my bed, but cannot get out of it. So the last three mornings in a row she's been scratching at the mattress from underneath at like four in the morning, and I'm like, I don't know, why are you going there? Like you know you can't get out Yeah, Tom, it's a cat cave. It's fun in there and then

you just you know, get stuck. Yeah, that's the whole thing. Yeah, can we please talk about Magnus and Wagner a little bit and that friendship and the dynamic that you and Harry had. I mean, it's you know, we know you're incredible and we know Harry is incredible, but still for two folks to come together having just met and create this banter and this friendship and this sort of way of communicating that is so seamless and inherit it. I loved watching it. So tell us a little bit about

that process and kind of how you made that magic. Well, you know, you know far better than I do, how expressive a creature Harry is, and how I knew he was a dancer, and I knew that he could say things with a flick of his hand or a turn of his head that I could I would have to go write me some lines because there's no way I'm going to more his his The nature of his expressiveness is such that you can get so much from him

in little things. Um. I what I didn't expect is how good a dancer he is with his eyes and what I mean by that is when I met him and he was just so gracious and wonderful to meet, and there was a beat and a breath, and he gave me a look, and in that look he was like, I love you, you love me. We're good. Does that make sense? And with that like, I couldn't. I'm not psychic enough for whatever to translate it directly. I can't say.

He was beaming. We've loved each other for a long time and this we're carrying this history with us into that. I don't not the specifics of it, but the broad I have always loved you, You have always loved me. You are safe. You were loved with just a little look and a little blink, and I went, okay, all right, And I asked, as in the my difference, I will always behit for you. In that little that beat, I said, is it all right if I if I touch her? And he was like, he was like, what do you

have to like you? Of course you? It was a yes, like a like why would you even ask me that? Because this love is so The reality that he offered into that was such that I just okay, I need do nothing except trust you in the love that you're generating and that means that we have been friends forever. And yeah, it was. It was really that was the easiest little moment that could have been. Could have been

some could have been. It's really cool. And I still want to know what happened between those characters in Peru. I do. I want to know. That would be a crazy spin. Was just the immortals and all of the ship they did for centuries previous, like pre Js, pre Clary, pre Alec, like just the Shenanigans that like Ragna and Camille and Magnus got up to How Raphael got lugged in the mix, like all of those, How they just navigated their way through the centuries. Oh my god, I'd

watch that, My goodness. I would love to watch some youngsters do that. I would love to see someone do it. Yeah, yeah, I don't want to really be a part of it. No, I want to just watch it as an audience member, I think. But you know, that's another thing with this Lord, as we were still so early on in the series that you and Harry established so much in that moment of what these immortal friendships can represent and what warlocks

are and how they exist and it. At know, we've had so many conversations about immortality on this show and and sort of what that means and how that can manifest itself, but it became so apparent and inherent with you two, the sort of weight of the ages. That's that's such a kind thing to say that, so that it's felt that way, and I certainly I've heard that from some very kind members of the shadow Man as well, that they're like, clearly these dudes of go warlocks forever

together and have this um. But I wondered, like not that coming in as I did, being invited in for that moment of the piece, not knowing what your eternities looked like before. It was a strange feeling, not knowing what that again, because you you had the task upon you of navigating these waters. What does this power mean? What what does this history mean? How powerful is the blood? What is the all of those things that you had

to generate? And I came in and I was like, I have to make it as specific as I can in my choices, but I have to keep it as vague as I can in my knowledge what that is because I don't know the shorthand you have for what all those things? And that's what Cat's saying, Like we didn't, we didn't, like none of this backstory was written for like any of these characters. So like, if that question had never been like asked or read its head, the adds would have been, I don't know, what did you

do in the eight hundreds? Like I don't know, I don't know. Someone says to you, at a scale of one to tend, how powerful is this power that you're using right now this room that you're how powerful you'd be, Like, I don't know when they would say to you while you're deciding right now. So yeah, well, these were so many of the conversations that we had throughout and then

particularly too as our powers kept changing. You know, Don got the Goldenknife thing, and I got the portals, and we had to learn and half the time it was in situation you figure it out and make it up and make some sort of logic that then you have to remember for the rest of the series too. Yeah.

I remember having a conversation with Matt once when Matt jumped off a building landed on his feet, and he was like, so falling off a building is no longer a threat for us, like, we can't use that anymore because we've just proved that we can survive that. So that's like I'm dangled at anytime, Like at that point, now, can you just be like what that's okay, Like you can push me off this, I'll be good. So it's

not a big deal. Let's go. Yeah. I was a little jealous of speaking of falls of the stunt man. I know it was one of Steve Luchsk's guys, but I don't know who the stuntman was who did the regular fall. I'm getting old and forgetting names, so please forgive me seven gotten so much, give me a little pass on that one. I think it's that stunt is hard, though.

I think on Vampire Academy someone did basically that exact stunt, And the issue with it is you have you have the railing that you if this is your body, you have the railing that you hit sort of midway through. But you can't just hit that and go over it because the railing isn't flat, it goes down. There's this area down here at the bottom that you can hit yourself on a second time and still have to continue to fall. So you have to make it look like

you've hit this thing, and then go over it. But also make sure you've cleared this so you don't hit your head, because I've seen it happen when hit their head on the way down and then you're unconscious falling, and that's really dangerous because you can't control Hey, land, I'm pretty sure, correct me if I'm wrong, But you the character does it backwards, doesn't he go back first

over the thing? Absolutely? And then the spiral where where the football lands in the hand of the ground in this case, Yeah, they gave you a football to her, you know that, just like on a ballistics level, he is at that. Yeah. Sorry, Sometimes for the Shacks demons, they would toss us a nerve football and we have to wrestle the football and throw it away. I wish I had a demon. I've got to be an expert in that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's a that's a strang.

Have you guys talked to your fans a lot about the perils of acting against stuff that's not there and it's not there of course the years, Yeah, we've had the conversations of because they it's interesting, like what we did, I guess because there was such a huge diversity of different creatures from you know, different elements of this world. Um, there was no real like uniformity of how they were

presented to us. So like where wolves were kind of always where there was alway we always had a similar

thing to track. But every time we experienced a new demon, it was like shacks demon was a football and they throw it at you and you'd have to have this thing in your face, or like the were the what were the like slug demons things, and that was a guy in bandex with the thing on his thing on his head and then two long sticks because this thing had like long arms, and he would run up and just go We're like, okay, alright, cool, Well, I'm gonna have to sort of erase that in my mind and

then put in. But they got they did get quite good at showing us like concept art and stuff, so they're like, this is vaguely what they are going to look like. In the one, I didn't know if you had kind of storyboard that had stuff with your demons as much or whether was like okay, how tall. Yeah.

Come season two, they were pretty ahead of everything, Like they were up in the office a lot of the a lot of these like new sets, new creatures and whatever, and we could just swing by the office and be like, Okay, I sort of got it in my head now and I can prep around that knowing vaguely what it was, you know. And also I loved it. Philip our VFX

coordinator season two on. He was so excited about building all of this that he would constantly come up with us with this computer and go, I made a new demon I have to show you. Or he would always come up to me and go, I made your portals better, and I'm going, Philip, my portals look amazing. What are you talking about? He was like, no, no no, no, those were horrible. It may have been better. I'm like, okay, sure,

you're you're awesome. Keep keep building. This is great. It's so strange when it's an art that's outside of your own understanding and you're like you have done the impossible perfectly and they're like oh no, no, this is no no no, and you're like, no, no, it can be better.

Which also that's that's the thing performers do as well, right where where someone goes that scene was perfect and you're like no, no, no, that's was lost to a sound issue where you know, one of the lights had to be adjusted well, because so much of it, I think is up in the gray, isn't it, Like so much of it for us is up here that like, even if it looked fantastic, I know what I was thinking, and it wasn't what I was supposed to be thinking.

So and that that's the most frustrating one for me, is like we they got much better at it, but in the studio we had the workshop directly behind us, so it was a fairly common thing that like the rolling Q didn't get to the workshop office, that would still that would continue going whilst we're filming, And like, that's great, we got it. And I'm like, all I'm thinking about is they're making a new set next door. That's me Dom, not Jason. Me. Dom is thinking what

set are they making? And no matter how it looked, no matter whether it looked good or bad, I know what I was thinking, and I know that I wasn't connected to what I should have been doing. You know what I mean. If we love it, you're like I cheated you out of it. Yeah, I mean, but those are the perils of working on a set on a sound stage. That's constantly rolling. I had a similar thing

dom in Clary's bedroom. I don't know if you remember, there was one roof tile that was, you know, stories above in this warehouse we were in, but when the wind would hit it just right from the outside, it sounded like a clown's car horn. Oh, I do remember that. Yeah. And so you know, all of the scenes in Clary's bedroom are all of the really heavy emotional kind of I'm dealing with my feelings, not fighting things scenes, and

they're very quiet. And so I'm sitting there talking to Emerald or Dom or Alberto about something and then I hear bur Burpenner. Yeah, you just go, oh, well, can we all right can use that one? Yeah, we had one that became it actually got released in the Bloopers that became fairly famous within our you know, our little community doing a very heavy scene. Um Kine as in Caine and Able Cane, the first vampire he's in our story.

And then Lilith, the mother of all Eamons. We've got her like trapped and it's it's Jason Clari and Simon also and Emeralds and we're all sort of ready for battle sort of thing, and there was a crow or a raven one or the other that just wanted to be just wanted to be part of it that day.

So we'd be in the middle of like, this is what we're going to do, this is the plan, this is what's going to happen, and you hear this like in the back and were like, wow, I don't know how we get back from that point where someone would get three words out and we just we had to take the entire scene half lines of dialogue at a time because these ravens just so wanted to be a

part of it. Yeah, that day, but we were so lucky to have guest stars like yourself who came in and really committed to the character and to the story and to the lore of the world. And clearly that's something near and dear to your heart. So it's when when you did dive it on set, it was still season one and we were still kind of figuring everything out,

but we were really in literally your house. So did you you how was that walking into this kind of environment that was yours in this set that was kind of brand new as well? Well. I you know, normally, when when you're given an environment, as you know, with one of you, Like you say, you you're giving the the institute and you're familiar with it, and you you want to pace every boards until you know the environment

like the back of your hand. And I didn't want to do that in Ragnar's home for the specific reason that the audience is with you and this is your journey, and when you come to this place, when Clari arrives there, it's all weird. What if it's all it all feels unsettled and unsettling, and I think for the tension of the scene, I didn't want to be the lounging me in my home in the way. I wanted it to be an environment of uncomfort and uncertainty. So it's it's

the it's that weird. Is this a liminal or a subliminal space? Is this? Uh? I mean I hoped that people would neither be surprised or unsurprised when you yanked me this no way wow? And uh I don't. By the way, I'm not like it's not like that. I'm not stocking you guys and keeping this with me at all times. In the honest reach, it's not for those who are only hearing the audio. I did just produce the portrait from which I emerged. Um the art department, trust me, Adam, we all we all have our own

memorabili Yes, it doesn't seem strange enough. Yes, well I think if I'm not mistaken, you're not allowed Stella's because you broke so many that I wasn't And yeah I wasn't. They season two they took them off me um, which they like wrote it into the story, which is really depressing. They were just like Jay doesn't need one this season. He doesn't need it, he doesn't need one. And I was like, come on, I have like a place for it now, like you've given me new hostess that's like

a whole thing that it's gonna be better. They're like, nope, nope, not for you. And it's fair, completely fair. I'm sorry if I've missed it because I haven't heard all of your behind the scenes. Okay, but I are. Do you each have a favorite of your collection of your here's my beloved? I yeah I had that, you can say without being soon arrested. Yeah, yeah, right exactly, so I I the two big things I left set with season two.

We had a big change of the swords and how the seraph blades worked and how they looked physically and whatever. So I left with one of those um and then I had in season one we talked about the story of the Falcon and how Jason was told to train this falcon um, this statue of the falcon that obviously had this profound impact on Jason's sort of becoming who he was, who he is. I have that. That's super cool, Tom, It's so interesting that you say that, because my parallel

that exactly. I have a set of Clary's daggers that eventually we found out one was Jocelyn's and one was Valentine's that I fought with for two and a half seasons. And in Clary's room they had one of those wooden artist figures that you know, artists will bend to mimic whatever human shape. But the camera crew signed to the back of it on the last day that we shot in Clary's bedroom in the Institute and handed it to

me as like a little piece of her space. And it sits on my dresser in my room in the same place that it's at in Clarie's room, and it's just it's always there. That is super cool and and here is a device for making art while you're making art about the person who's piece of art. It is that like the levels of that play within a play kind of deal. Yeah, we also cat and I got away with I think Drew gave you yours and Glenn gave me mine. The we have the slate, the last

ever slates we did on the show. Um just obviously not the whole clap of board, just the actual slates as shadow Hunter's shot whatever it is, episode two, season three. I've imagined those those final slates that we can't have an easy three guys. Yeah, it was. It was weird, it was you know, they were they were sort of nice enough to give us the closing episodes. Do you do you know anything about how this sort of came

about towards the end? You've spoken to anyone about it, you mean, with the with the like we're giving you the closure like that. Yeah, yeah, I I am somewhat familiar with what happened. Got it then, very briefly for yourself and anyone else who doesn't know. Normally, when they end a show, that's just it. You don't come back. Whatever stories are unfinished, that's it. You you finished at the end of that season, we're not giving you anymore. The show is done. And that wasn't the case with us.

We were told that it was coming to an end, but we were told we had two hour long episodes of sort of a two hour long event to round out everyone's stories, which honestly is a really lovely gift to guess. There's so many stories, and there were so many things that people were so passionate about, so many relationships, and so it was a really lovely thing to be

able to come and finish that off together. So it's very sort of bit sweet towards the end because it's it was hard to say goodbye to it, but also it was a nice way to say goodbye to it. It was much better than the ending that I think anyone would have anticipated. So it's not that there's it's not a shocked grief, it's a you've had a chance to process and to work your way through it as you are manifesting into the world. Yeah, exactly right, exactly right.

We also that last day, fortunately we actually spoke to the A d S about it because we assumed they've done it intentionally. It was like everyone all of the series regulars throughout the entire show, and then most of the recurring guest stars were there and a lot of the crew that were there, and then we had the rat party in the Institute in the in the big main set. It's just it just doesn't happen that way usually, and not because that's anyone's fault necessarily, that's just not

completely We're already striking it as you right. Yeah, yeah, we did have that. We did have sets being like drilled into the floor so nobody could go with their sticky fingers and start taking expensive things that dotted about. But it was sort of the best way to say goodbye to the show because even you know, even the last shot that Dom and I did was me walking away from it was walking away from like our final conversation, and it was and that's the last shot anyone did.

That was anyone did on Shadow Yeah, I have this distinct memory though, that always solidified what Shadow Hunters was as a community. On set, I you know, bawling my eyes out because Clary is saying goodbye forever and everyone she loves and I turned the corner from the very last shot and our second e d s well are one of our first eighties and our second a d see like in Helga, we're standing around the corner with a cart full of champagne flutes just at the ready

for when we prepped. Anyway, this is this is our family. You know. We laughed together, we cried together, we sell it together, and we make a story that hopefully helps people feel all the things that we felt while making it. Yeah, I don't know. I wonder so much for you guys. At what time in this process the feedback loop began?

You know, because you're creating all of this emotional energy and you're offering the insides of yourselves into these characters for whom people already have expectations, which is already a scary thing to do. And then as those people start taking that energy from me and they're placing it into themselves, like this is my Clary, this is my Jase, this is my and and that energy is now feeding back into you and threw you into the performance, back into

the community. Like was there a time at which you became not like a snap of awareness, but at what time did you go, oh, I am me in this role. I am also a member of this shadow family out there who's watching it from the outside. And you know what I mean that that because we have that happened right, I know mine. We were invited to New York Comic

Con right as the show was about to air. We had like the teaser trailer, which is sort of the first couple of minutes of the episode um and introduced sort of all of the individual characters, and we before we went out on stage, it was standing room only, absolutely for there were people waiting outside they couldn't get in, and we had to stand behind the big projector screen. So we watched the whole thing in reverse, which is a bit weird because you obviously we're behind where it's

being projected, which is a bit strange. But we got to hear like I'm blowing my access, I'm not yeah, yeah, And we had never seen it before as well, we hadn't yet seen any of the show, but we got to hear We couldn't see anyone's face, but we could hear the reactions, and it came in these like waves, sort of cascading waves, and we've got to hear people like cheer for their characters that they've been dying to see, you know, since they started reading the books, and then

it sort of occurred to me that like, oh wow, like, not only do these people care about what we do, we care about what we do, and we're gonna we're going to sort of be enveloped in this like as you mentioned, this sort of loop of energy where we're giving out and it's and sort of coming back at the same time. It was magical. There's a really magical thing to happen that doesn't happen very often that people really did connect. Um. So yeah, that was the first

time where I went. And it's interesting that you mentioned like there was some trepidation with it, because then as I'm about to walk on stage, I was like, oh God, like that way hit me just for a second, you know. I was like, well, it's true. Because we had made

the first season in a bubble. We went straight to series and so we've shot thirteen episodes, and Alberto and I had just wrapped the previous evening and we all flew to New York late the night before, got up super early, and so we had just finished and no

one had seen anything. We hadn't seen anything, and we were unleashing it on the world in that moment, and I remember standing behind that screen with the creators and our cast, and in this I had never been to a comic con, but for I didn't even know what I was walking into. And then, you know, you walk into the huge Jabbt Center in New York and there's posters of us everywhere, and you just kind of get to see, oh, wait, we've made this in a vacuum, and now we get to give it to the world.

And to have the reaction be so enthusiastic from what one was was just that it was simultaneously terrifying and exciting because you get that that moment of going, Okay, we've we've made this, and we're proud of it, and there's an expectation for it. Let's hope that this enthusiasm continues.

And you know, that's something that I'll give the Shadow fam massive credit for, is that throughout this entire process, they have been so open to coming on this journey and so open to everyone involved, from folks I guess that they see every week to folks like you. They get to come in and make such a splash, and and they just become so rabid for because I think they feel the commitment to the story that each of

us have and it becomes this beautiful community. Well I just couldn't help but wonder with that that sense of magic that I feel that you were infused with, like upon my arrival. You know, I again you're guessing into something. There are different kinds of set, right. There are sets where there's a concrete wall between the key leads and the guests and whatever there are I don't remember, and I've never been on one. Yeah, I couldn't remember seeing

your name for sure. You've heard legend of these sets. I've heard that's it. Yeah, I read about them in myths, um. And but then there are sets where there's like a chain link fence between the gay cast and you touch fingertips through the chain link fence. And then there are sets like yours, where by the time I arrived, your family, I would say, was firmly entrenched. I got there and I went, oh, ship, these people love each other and they love what they're doing, and they love the act

of doing it. And everyone just went, are you here to play and make magic? Arms outstretched, Come and play and make magic. And that was a gift from you that when I ride was like, oh wow, all I have to do is do my best to bring the magic, which sounds like a silly thing to say. It doesn't. It is normally difficult to come in too, as you say, this sort of entrenched community and be sort of the outsider, like, hey, I'm gonna be part of this for a little bit.

I hope that's school and but everyone else is sort of already. It's very like teenagerad clicky, like a high school kind of thing. Um. And I think something that we wanted to do and something that we kind of pride ourselves on the fact that, like Shadow Answers, was a set that people could come to and feel comfortable. We wanted you to come to set and do the work because all it does the other side of it, working with the people who don't really welcome you, is

it sets you back. Just sets you back. Time, It sets you back, emotion, it sets you but it makes you exhausted everyone. Um, and that is unacceptable for for everyone's point of view, like even you know so far as like if that attitude isn't there, then every shot takes longer, which then pushes the cruise time later, you know, so then the cruise an hour later than they should

have been and it has such a negative impact. So I think and I'm very glad you felt that way, because we do we do best, oh absolutely for people who have never experience, who have never dipped a toe in the set life, and they don't they for shadow fam and shadow fans who look at the work that you did and they love it and they value it and they treasure it, which they should because it's beautiful work.

They don't know about that other job necessarily that you were doing at all times, which was to host, which was to welcome, which was to introduce people to the party, and to to give them this I don't know, a loving, respectful place to to play with you. And so you know, when they're out there thanking you for what you did for them on the screen, they should also know all of that stuff that you gave to all of your guests off. So thank you very and shadow Fam. That's

that second round of applausia them guys. Yeah, I owe a them money. Um, this really only works when only a cat a main coon. But this go ahead, Yeah, yeah, right exactly, she's brown, about six years old. Um, but this this attitude really only works. And again we've said this before, but I think it's important to reiterate with with everyone who made us feel this way. Um. You know, we get these these guest stars coming in who not they're so wildly prepared, they've got such a grasp on

who these characters are. They consistently blow us away with performances, which then pushes us to work a little harder as well. But it's also important that attitude is reflected back to us. You know. Sometimes being self conscious or whatever it's it's it's it's a subconscious reaction. It's not something that you can do, um necessarily anything about, but to not to not try and push through it at times can be selfish.

Because we want you to be a part of this, you know, we want you to come and come and play like you've worked hard to get here, You've earned your place here, um as everyone has come and come and enjoy it with us, you know, come and be a part of this. And anything less than that can be can be sad sometimes. So I'm glad you felt that way. I'm really glad you felt that way because we felt that way as well. Absolutely, I'm not being

hyperbolic at all. I mean I've been on no set more of that I have not been on a set, I will say that is a safer, more um fostering place to play. It is just a playful, beautiful thing that you made for people. And so that's I think that's it. But it also something extra happens when all of that love and all that positive energy has taken place behind the scenes. And you know, I don't know

what that genes sicqualise. I don't know if there's a way to quantify it, but I do think that out there, the people who didn't know a thing about what was happening on that side of it, seeing that screen, they just go, oh, something's hitting me. There's a there's an energy, there's a love, there's a you know, he says the guy who abandons all myths. But whatever, there's you know what, it's that shadow fan magic. That's no there's no better way to put it. It really is. So do you

do you have any stories to give us? Give us your favorite on set doesn't have to be give us

your favorite wow favorite on set moment. I mean, like I I tend to think as in my in my declining years, as I as I think back to my youth, I know I I tend to to look at the experiences more now as individual, like what was the vibe from that set, what was the so so in total, to me, shadow Hunters was a brilliant and a beautiful uh place to visit because it was everything that you wanted to be in the sense of being playful, in the sense of being kind. I don't know if everyone

knows that. Actually they probably do, because the Shadow fam is as inquisitive as anyone any but all of that kindness and openness I'm willing to play was at the end of these folks doing like seventeen hour days, doing like a crazy long shoots. So to be like at the limits of your endurance and your exhaustion and be kindly welcoming your guests while you're encouraging to play with you and doing the ennis matchup, like here's my performance energy,

here's your performance energy. Like it just there's something I don't know, like emotionally athletic about it. In addition to be physically athletic about it, there's something emotionally a black about it. So so I always think of that it's just like a really really unique environment. I've had some

some cool things that I've liked doing. But that's like, certainly I would say, like I'm among the characters that I've played, Ragnar is probably right up there at the top of my fans um, despite the fact that that's a little, you know, supporting guest, the part, you know, like I played, um Charles Manson in a TV movie a number of years. It was the only time on a full production that I've been like one on the sheet kind of kind of situation and UM, and that

was really wild and it was really cool. I don't feel like the researchiness of it was vastly different to my researching us for Ragnar, Like the process of finding out what exists and learning how to process it was very much the same. Obviously a bit of a darker vibe on that. UM just saying that was a really

wild experience. And you get to have sometimes a lucky moment where you say to yourself they go cut and you go, oh man, in that take, I got that beautiful gift of that moment where I wasn't here, where I me, the guy who's doing your work was not here. I surrendered. It's just true and it's its own thing. And like lucky me, I was the vessel to it for a second. But beautiful, you know, I find I find this when I have those moments and then I try and look back and like remember what it was?

However I got there and I have almost zero memory of being in that Like there's no it's just empty, it's just black space, like right right, Yeah, it's a weird. It's a really odd thing that happens. Because that's what you want, right is to remember how to do that and replicate it every time, Like no idea, I did it. Yeah, you're like without a direct line to Dionysius or whatever. Right, Well, for lack of a better word, that's the magic of

what we do. And that's that's why we're always chasing these things and seeking these things and trying to find that moment again, um, you know, and as as creative as we have the luxury of doing that with other

people who are doing the same. Well that but that's my my question to you, is like that that magic, Like I wonder how much of your personal magic batteries beyond a certain point are being fueled by that shadow of him and their supporting and huge amount amount honestly knowing that, like I never got into this business for the accolades or the magazine covers of the awards necessarily, although an Oscar would be nice at some point in my career, but that's not why I got into And

I've always said to myself, you know, if I died playing at theater and something that I really cared about, doing a role that I really cared about, I'm doing what I love doing for a living. That's That's what I have always wanted to achieve, right, that's the dream. Until I realized that actually quite a lot of what we do is funded emotionally, like you said, by people saying that we like this, You're doing a good job, like we appreciate this, And it does sper me on

for sure. But it's true, don that you say that, you know, we we so desperately want to. We pour our blood, sweat and tears into these characters and into telling these stories. But the fact that there are people out there that connect and are moved by it and and gain something from it emotionally is the most beautiful thing. It makes It means so much more. You know, we play make believe for a living, but it actually has a benefit, a greater benefit to the world we hope

if we do it right. For sure, for sure, there's those times where you're like, am I just like indulging my ego? And you know, like any propemative things like let me examine my own motivations here and sure some of it is like I want to demonstrate that I have these capacities because I found out I have these capacity? Isn't there neat? And I want you to see them? And then some kids somewhere goes. You made me feel

more free to love who I love this. You've given me that like wow, the profundity that can come from make believe in play that just you know, and and and the way that you know l G B t Q I, a particularly youth have embraced the show. It's just like and and and it makes sense to see that you can be different and be powerful in your difference and you can you know, I mean, that's like wow.

To be a part of anyone's journey now, it's just like and and to to hear and hear and hear and hear how many people that your work has affected that way and and to some slight degree mind has I just like, Okay, well if that was it, like if that was If that was why, I was like, oh, maybe I'll learn to pretend things. That's a pretty good reason, man. You know, Raja, Raja, look at her. She's not allowed

in that cupboard. What is she doing? I love you, I love you, Rosa well, I don't know what's in there, but she wants it desperately. She came to say hi, Oh my goodness looking and little Meal, look at you. Rager's beautiful. You're gonna be a good guy. I think we're gonna we have to do the exchange. I'm just I want to see my dearest love is about to bring me Nigel Nigel excited, Oh Nigel, boody goodness, Oh Nigel, Hi, say hello, my friend, this is Dominic. Wow do Adam.

If your cat ever goes missing, don't don't ask me, don't ask me. But I know it wasn't his idea. So he's gone now. But thank you as an incredible looking cat. Wow you much. And and you know he connects to what I was just saying to about how like we got him. His life before us had not been great, you know, so when we got him, he was don't yeah, just be gentle with me. And now this little beastie. I show up. The second I hit the door, he's at my feet going rubbed this belly

right now. It is like and any time that that you can make anyone or anything feel safe, for any time you can make anyone or anything feel more love or more valuable, Like it's just it's just it's so interesting because that actually is a perfect similarly for sort of what I was saying as well, what we've all been saying in the circle is like the reverse as well, right, because I can see it with you fairly obvious that Nige all makes you feel safe, and Raja makes me

feel safe. Dan, my dog, makes me feel safe. Like it's like during the pandemic, which is horrendous. Really, the only two that I had was Raja and Dan day to day like, and those are the guys that kept me going, like there's you know what I mean. So as much as like I try and give them their safety and their security and like I'll make sure that nothing bad ever happens to you, they do that with me, and they I think they know that they do that

with me. Dan, especially Dan's very in tune with my emotions. If I'm upset, he'll come and he'll come and help you had a day as soon as Okay, all right, let's talk about yeah, yeah, yeah, Bob doesn't do that. Bob is my my boxing dummy who was my quarantine companion for the most part. Yeah, he doesn't. He doesn't really do that. He's just he's solid and he's always there. But it's not really in tune with emotions, if you know what I mean. That sounds a bit of a

shell of a man. You might say, there's there's a value. There's a value to having a bomber as well as a value to having a Bob. Definitely, um adam before we go, what was working on Assassin's Create? Like? I love it. I love I love acting with stuff that isn't there. I love allowing a monster or a battle to just present itself and all its glory, you know, blink it in and go okay, I'm willing to believe. I mean, it's that when you get to suspend your

own disbelief in that way, it's great. I love mo Cap and I love voice work, and I just um and and um again, like like Shadow Hunters, like for Odyssey, for Assassin's Creede Odyssey. When I was in that one. Um, Sophie and Ronny was our director, and she's another one of those people who is just like, let's just play, let's just have fun, let's find it, let's and and I know I sound so baffled when that happens, but I do feel like the ratio is a little skewed,

perhaps towards the other way, do you know. And and so it is just such a gift when you get that. And so um My, in addition to the characters that I visually played in Assassin's Creed Odyssey, I also and many many of the mercenaries and soldiers and villain characters different. So I would show up when we when we got to just the vocal stuff at postmode cap So if you'll be like, Okay, today, I'm gonna need about five different soldier voices from you, and I'd be like, okay,

let's do it. And and um and so when my best friend, um, the guy who I usually play games with if we are online, I'm not a huge online camera. When I play online games, it's usually with this dear friend of mine. I've known him for twenty years. We're doing some writing projects together. He uh, he was like I bought the game. Yeah, I haven't killing you all day. Man. My best friend took a day to just stab me

everywhere he could find me. And yeah, you're the best listening to the voices, like hearing it in the crowd, that's him. I'm gonna go for that guy for sure. This is this is you're getting spear. I was like, thanks, man, he made your work. You know, he really utilized all the effort that you put into it. So yeah, it's

it's nice to feel it's nice to feel appreciated. But I do sometimes get involved in project and I'm not going to say it's this handsome, but I do sometimes get involved in projects that where I'm not so much seen as heard, like um, like in the Expanse. I was in the pilot for the Expanse as a as a belter who who confronts Miller. But then as a result of going in, I had to go in to do a little piece of a d R on it.

And then the director sound Wrector Nelson for Awesome Dude, was like, you're really good at doing these belter voices. I was like, so if you want melter voices, And so while I was only in the pilot. My voice has heard a lot in every episode of the Expanse because at one time there's so it's that loop thing, which not everyone outside the business knows about, but you know loop groups where you go in and you do

background voices for shows. So, um, I've been in more if you counted up, like more battles and more spaceships, et cetera in the Expanse than anyone on the right. It's like, so I love I love stuff like that because I know when I started to perform, I definitely was looking for some kind of ego validation or whatever in my earliest years. And I just love doing the work.

Now I'm not right, don't care, Like it is really nice when you're doing live stuff to get that electricity and that applause which side sidebars something about the shadow fan relationship feels very much like a theater relationship in

a way that TV and phone usually doesn't. But yeah, I just I just well, like you were saying, you know, when you went to hall Age and you displayed it, and like you did the you did the season one play and the curtain dropped it and came out to the audience lost their minds and you know, like the trailer is is this theatrical? Yeah, it is production. So it's just it's a it's a neat. I don't know anyway. I just I love. I got way out of out of my thought pattern there, But I love. I love

doing the work. I love performing, I love I love transforming. It's what I really like. I will play characters who have a lot in common with me, but it will never be as much fun as becoming and I think, I think, I see main actors would come. And there's nothing worse to me than when someone says, like you're a lot like this character. I'm like, I'm fucking not. But that can also be a thank you because you're like you took that earnestly enough that you believed the performance.

When that person has nothing to do with me, but it is. It's really neat when you watch people who are really committed, and I can I can say it on both of your accounts when I when I watched you in the performance, that like in the in the program, versus being yourself yourself and watching like, oh I see I see now how his jaw is held more tightly

than yours. I see now how your shoulder positioning broadens out and your and watching those mechanisms that you are shaping this person with and you're like, yes, it's still my equipment, it's still my body, it's still my voice, but it's I that subtle mechanism of like I'm just gonna plink of this piano string a little and I'm just gonna yes, tighten into and I just I love. I think the transformative elopment is the most beautiful part

of what we do. Um despite growing up watching all those like Deniros and that she knows and they're wonderful, I'm not. I'm not saying that, But what I am saying is, are they wonderful the same way that a streeper and the old man? Or no they're not. There

are surgeons in a very very specific field. And I love when you step back and you go, Okay, I'm looking at the whole picture and I'm making all these modifications and I'm I mean, that's my favorite thing about creating a character is getting to go, Okay, how do they move? What does it feel like to be in their skin? And then suddenly you know, you it's interesting

stepping away from it and coming back. I when I did Arrow, I had stepped away from it, you know, when the show ended, and then they had me back on the Flash almost two years later after the pandemic, and I remember getting to set and going, wait, hold on, I gotta figure out her stuff again, because you live in it for so long and it becomes inherent and then you go, wait a minute, what was that? Let me I have to find her again. She's somewhere because

it's still you. It's just a different way of as you said, pulling the strings. It's it's really fascinating. Yeah, I just it's so great. It's just like and we all do it. And people who don't perform, I don't know that they do perform. Yeah, Like people who don't perform often don't know that. And you're like, man, do you honestly think that you're the same person in the meeting with the CEO as you are when you're sitting

on the couch with your course. Yeah. The big one for me is meeting the parents for the first time, you know what I mean, I'm not the same person then, I'm still not a Decker And I have been my girlfriend and I've been dating for a year I've met her parents a bunch of times. Now, I'm still very like,

how you doing it? Very nice? You know, I'm just like I'm that was for anyway I think, But now there's just like another level of like it's just tuned up to eleven, you know what I mean, It's just a little more where it's like, yeah, it's just there's just that needs to be more than a modicum of respect here that for you know, these people. Anyway, Um, Adam, it's been amazing having you on. Thank you so much

for having me. It's been so wonderful hear about your process and to hear about Ragna of course, but to hear it just your beautiful voice again. And literally right after this, I'm gonna download Which one? Should I download? Odyssey or what was the other one? Okay? So there's lots of great performance in both, but from a play style from from gamers preferring to play them. More people enjoy the play mechanics of Odyssey than they do those of Valhalla. Okay, great, So well, Adam, where can we

see you next? What's coming up for you? We need more Adam in our lives. Oh that is very kind of you. As soon I will indicate so I will soon be seen on one of what I think is the best shows in television in a very small role.

But my favorite thing that I had coming up right at the moment would be I have a wonderful supporting role, a weird supporting role in a film called The Breach by Rodrigo Gadino and particularly um for Canadian listeners, Alan Hawko from Republic of Doyle and Natalie Brown, who you would know from The Strain and from several other wonderful, wonderful programs, her own show Sophie when that was on therein at Emily all Latalo and Wesley French and it's

a really strange, surreal I will say a little about it, but that it falls into the horror genre. Amazing. That's so exciting. Great news. Well, we can't wait to see it. I know you never believe I have a weird role in a weird film, but I know, what are the chances weird? Well, thank you so so much for having me on. Yes again, thank you for all the kindness as a as a colleague and as a fan. Thanks

so much, See you guys always. Return to the Shadows is hosted an executive produced by me Dominic, Sherwood and Katherine McNamara. Our executive producer is Lingley. Our senior producers are Liz Hayes and Diego Tapia, and our producers are Hannah Harris and Kristin Vermilion. Original music by Alex Kinzy, performed by Alex Kinzy and Katherine magnamara. M