Hey, and welcome back to Resilience Unravelled. And it's my joy and pleasure to welcome John Miles sitting in front of me looking resplendent in his corporate t shirt with his corporate wall and his corporate book. I mean, John, you are. You are a branding masterclass sitting in front of me.
John:Russell, thank you for that. I can tell you it didn't start out that way, but I have found the key to getting the message out. So, I at first thought I was doing way too much of it, but all the experts keep telling me you got to do more and more. You can never do too much.
Russell:And I can tell by the accent that you're across the pond by the sounds of it. So where in the world are you?
John:So for those who aren't watching, you've got an amazing background that looks like it's from where I live here in St. Petersburg, Florida. So, I've got palm trees right outside my door and the beach is about ten-minute drive away. But it's a far cry from when I lived in Harrow when I was working in London. So, I've experienced life in England as well.
Russell:Okay, interesting. Well, tell us a bit more about yourself. Tell us a bit about your past and where you've come from.
John:So I've had a very diversified path. I started my career by attending the Naval Academy and then served in the military. Actually, got to spend some time on Her Majesty ships as well during my tenure. And I worked for the NSA, which is very much akin to GCHQ. And my grandparents are from Cheltenham, so GCHQ was right in their backyard. My grandfather happened to work for Kraft, though. But following the military, I actually got out to pursue a career in law enforcement. But unfortunately, my FBI class was cancelled because our government was going through the shackles of disagreement just like they are now. And unfortunately, it delayed the class for about three years and by the time it came around again, I was already well beyond that and doing big four consulting and worked for Arthur Anderson and their business consulting practice.
John:I was at Houston in the epicentre when Enron hit and before my eyes all of a sudden I had to go to plan B again and I ended up spending the next 11/12 years in senior executive roles in industry. I started out with a company called Lenlease and for those in the UK, they probably have heard of Bovis, who is one of our subsidiaries. And that's why I lived in London and then I ended up working for a home improvement company over here called Lowe's. And then eventually with the company. I'm sure many of the listeners know Dell, where I ended my tenure there as the chief information officer. And then from there, I spent a number of years in private equity before deciding to do a major change in life and branching out into content creation, like I'm doing now.
Russell:So there's a few big decisions that you've taken through the course of your life because you've had two or three pivot points or directional changes. Are these things which have been part of an overall career plan, or you someone who reacts to external events? What's your preferred way of building a career for yourself?
John:Well, I think the proper way to do it is to be intentional about it, and that's certainly how I laid my life goals out. But as circumstances happen, life throws things at us, and when you get lemons, you got to make lemonade. And so that's exactly what I did. I figured when some of these things happened, like the Enron situation, I could sit there and blame everyone under the sun, or I could take action and do something about it, which is exactly what I did. And I would say when I got more into the Fortune 500 crowd, I was being very deliberate about my path from coming in as a chief information security officer to wanting to achieve, becoming a chief information officer, which for my career line was what I aspired for.
John:And then as I got further to that goal, I really realised that I wanted to branch off and eventually run companies and become a CEO. And so that's where I deliberately did a pivot into private equity, first taking on chief operating officer roles as well as marketing roles, so I could bolster the technology background I had with sales and operations experience. So I would be more well-rounded to go after the ultimate prize of becoming a CEO.
Russell:It's a very interesting path because it's almost an archetypal journey to CEO in a large organisation. What you've done is collected lots of large organisations, so you've built the same path. It's fascinating you've done that, becoming extremely rounded. And it's fascinating when you think of small businesses, often entrepreneurs who've had a technical base or an intellectual base, and they build companies without any of that infrastructure, without any of that experience. And it often leads to this idea that you get CEOS who are good at working with huge organisations, some of which are good at the middle and some which are good at the small base. And I'm guessing when you went to the PE world, you were sort of seeing a different world there.
Russell:You were seeing a smaller base, because it's unlikely a PE house going to give you a massive organisation to be CEO of first. So how do you make that adjustment? How do you make that adjustment between these different sorts of sizes and segments? I mean, there's commonalities, I'm sure, but what would you see as the differences?
John:I realised coming out of the Fortune 500 world, that to get across pollination type of opportunity like I wanted in a seed level role, I couldn't do that coming from being the head of the technology organisation and being recruited to do that and then another Fortune 500, they just weren't doing it. So for me, the logical step was to go the private equity route, because I could go into, not a small company, but a medium sized company, where it wouldn't be such a culture shock for me from going from this enormous scale to a start-up, but have something where I could still wrap my arms around something that was complex, something that needed to be fixed, yet it would give me exposure to a global business and to a more well-rounded thought process of how you run a business.
John:And so that's exactly what I was trying to accomplish.
Russell:But it's fascinating, isn't it? One of the similarities I often see working in different sectors is that fundamentally, most businesses are the same, irrespective of size, they all seem to have the same problems, they all seem to have the same opportunities and risks and pivot points and cultural dynamics and such like, and the scale and the technology and the industry makes a difference. But fundamentally, businesses are so similar, aren't they? And I just wonder about your view of that. I've often challenged the PE houses on this idea that you can have a CEO that's worked in this sort of sector, because actually, fundamentally, you wrestle with the same issues.
John:It's about having a product or a service, getting it to market, delivering it, repeating it, getting some sort of revenue, getting paid, staying profitable, staying, having revenue, staying legal, harnessing the sort of human capital of the business, and making it work, and obviously ratcheting continuous improvement. It is odd to see how the basic business template, I mean, maybe that's been broken now with things like AI, but it is fascinating to see how much of whatever business you go in has commonalities.
John:Yeah, so I answer that in a couple of different ways. Yesterday I was giving a keynote to FedEx, and this question came up, and my answer was that in all the companies I've worked in, whether they've been a $70 billion company or a $2 million company, 80% of the problems that they all face are exactly the same. It's just a matter of scale and complexity between one and another. But from the standpoint of being a CEO and changing industries, I think 75% of the job you can do, regardless of the industry. Where I find it really matters, is in your sales and having those deep entrenched relationships in that industry really help.
Russell:So if you don't have that, you have to rely very heavily on either your chief customer officer or your head of sales to help underpin that weakness and get you to a point where you're competent in that industry.
John:Yeah, and the vast majority. I remember a colleague of mine saying, all problems, issues and opportunities walk on two legs in an organisation. And I suppose whichever size of organisation you're working with, you're dealing with people. You're dealing with people who are customers, stakeholders, shareholders, stockholders, whatever it might be, charitable institutions. You're dealing with the relationships that sit within that, including the relationships of your own team. And I wonder if you can isolate the sort of secret source of how you build brilliant relationships.
John:Man, it takes a lot of intentional effort.
Russell:I thought you're going to say passion and purpose. You see there, I was leading you in there.
John:I mean, passion and purpose plays a role in it. I mean, I think it's very advantageous for your peers and the people you look up for in the organisation to see that you're passionate about something. But I really think it comes down to being deliberate and consistent in how we interact with people because you can't expect to have a one-time interaction and expect to have a great relationship. So just like any relationship we have in life, to have a good peer, you need to be a good peer. And so, I found that it's just as much about reaching out, staying in touch, actively listening to them, trying to be helpful, especially if you see someone struggling, that builds up a long-term rapport of establishing that same foundation that you have with them.
John:And so I was always extremely intentional about the relationships I built, especially with people in the business. And a great example of this is I remember when I was at Lowe’s, and I had just taken over our application development organisation and the business was not very happy with us. I remember talking to the head of strategy who said, John, you guys are absolutely incredible at building solutions that are obsolete by the time that they're. So, I went and built a relationship with probably the biggest critic that we had in technology, and he had a huge project that he needed to get done.
John:And I went to him with a unique approach that if you would join me hip by hip and be the first person who applies agility to a project and go full in on it, I guarantee you that you're going to see a different result. And he took that step of faith, and we delivered about two and a half years ahead of when our historical waterfall method would have put this in. It ended up saving Lowe's 500, $600 million, and it propelled his career. And he went from being an associate that I knew to a dear friend and my biggest advocate to get others on board to what we’re doing. But it takes a lot of effort, and it takes showing up and being consistent in how you're showing up to earn that trust.
Russell:Interesting. It is fascinating, isn't it? The number one skill. It's a bit like bringing up kids. The number one skill not taught is parenting. And it's the same thing for leaders, isn't it? The number one skill is rarely emotional intelligence and building relationships, productive, meaningful relationships, not just superficial, transactional relationships. It's something that's sort of missed out of the leadership management textbooks, I think.
John:I think emotional intelligence definitely is. And it becomes more important the more senior you become. I think it echoes Marshall Goldsmith's words that what got you here isn't going to get you to where you want to become. And as I was listening to another one of your podcast episodes, I think your guest brought up another core element that I don't think we're taught to do. And that is self-awareness. And to me, it's that mixture of being self-aware, being vulnerable with yourself and how you're seeing yourself mixed with emotional intelligence. And then I would just add one other, which is the adaptability quotient, because I think adaptability is increasingly becoming vital as the world changes around us. I think those three things are pinnacle for future leaders.
Russell:Yeah, fascinating. So, I know you've written a book, and I know it's all about passion and purpose, so you still haven't mentioned it. So, I'm sort of all excited to hear about some maybe new thoughts.
John:Yeah, Russell. So, I started this off really talking about passion and the need for perseverance in life. And I remember a number of years ago, I was reading Angela Duckworth's book Grit, which is about those two things. And she was talking about her study of cadets at West Point and how it was those two magical ingredients that were the lifeblood of success. And I sat back and started looking upon my own experience. I interviewed a number of my classmates from going through the Naval Academy. And I came to the conclusion that while passion and perseverance were extremely important, there was a critical missing ingredient.
John:And that is, you can have all the grit in the world, but if you are applying it in the wrong ways, if you're not applying it where your life goals are, to where your values are, to where you aspire to craft your life to be, then what's the point? And that missing ingredient was intentionality. And I actually got to ask the source about this, or as close to it as I could get. I happened to be interviewing Katie Milkman, who's Angela's co-founder of the Behaviour Change for Good Organisation and knows Angela as well as anyone. And I asked her that exact question. Do you think she might have missed something when she said grit was what enabled this? Because I didn't think without intentionality you could become self-realised to your goals.
John:And she said, I think both Angela and I would say that you're absolutely correct and that a major aspect of behaviour science is this whole component of if your life is going in the wrong direction, you need to make changes to take it in the right one, which is what being intentional is all about. And so, I apply those three things throughout the book, and then I superimpose them through the lenses of mindset shifts, which is the why you are doing things. Behaviour shifts, which are the what and how, and then deliberate action, which is the where and when, and kind of go through how all those things align with intrinsic motivation, fuelling the complete cycle.
Russell:So that's interesting. If you could just unpack that a bit more for us. So, people bandy words like intentionality around it. Not the biggest pet head of mine, which is authenticity. But let's talk a bit more, unpack it and say what it really is, but also what it isn't. Because I think a lot of people have an idea that intentionality is something unattainable or something that's almost handed down from the stars. So, what is intentionality, and how do you develop it?
John:So, the way I look at intention to make this real for your listeners is every day we are faced with countless decisions. Where do you get your petrol? Where do you shop for your groceries? How do your commute? Intentionality is what ensures that we're not acting in autopilot, but that we are taking deliberate and not random or haphazard acts. And when we do that, we're intentionally aligning our actions to our overall goals and aspirations. And to me, it's that steadfast dedication to aligning our daily actions with our long-term vision, which is what intentionality is all about. And the opposite of that, to me, would be someone who's living their life on autopilot or in a constant state of mediocrity, where they just wake up and they continually do the same thing day after day.
Russell:Yes, that makes sense. So, I mean, one of our company's strap lines is performance on purpose, and the double sense of that, meaning we're doing things on purpose and we're doing things linked to our purpose. So, it's about linking those two things together. So, I'm guessing there's an informed choice as part of that, isn't there? Because, of course, you could go somewhere else and do something different, but actually, you wouldn't be aligning with this sort of stated sense of where you want to get to, which is great in a particular term of intentionality. But lots of people are wired, oddly enough, the other way around, aren't they? They're wired around understanding what they don't want rather than what they do want. So how do you deal with those sorts of issues and people?
John:One of my favourite authors is Benjamin Hardy, and he wrote a great book called the Gap in the Gain. And I think people get this methodology mixed up in their own lives. They are continually trying to measure themselves against other pillars of people that they aspire to be. So, for me, it would be as if I am trying to measure myself against Jay Shetty and where he is in his career, or it could be a famous footballer. Whatever it is you're trying to compare yourself to, where what you really should be comparing yourself to is the person that you once were and the strives that you've made, and that's the gain. So, it's really about measuring yourself against the gains in life and not the gaps. Or you need to mind the gap, as they often say, before you get on the tube.
John:But be mindful of the gaps, because it's more important to put your emphasis on the gains that you're making, projecting this future self that you want to be and the action steps that are going to lead you there. But more importantly, when you're measuring it, to see the progress and give yourself credit for the actions that you've taken, because that will give you the momentum to take more intentional actions and deliberate choices to get you further to where you want to go.
Russell:Okay, cool. So, the book Passion Struck, which is out in February 2024, who's it for? What will I get if I read it?
John:So, I wrote it for a number of different audiences. I wrote it first and foremost for my kids because I think my son is 25, my daughter is a sophomore in college. But both of them often have conversations with me that they're really terrified about the future. They see all this change that's hitting them, and they wonder, what is AI? What is automation? What are robotics? What are the social, economic factors that are affecting us right now going to do? And I try to bring them back to, there are a fundamental set of skills that if you're able to perfect them, will help you get through any challenge that you have in life. And it's the same set of skills that I've learned to use every time I've had to implement a plan b.
John:And I've had other portions of my life where I've hit rock bottom, and I had to build it back up brick by brick. So, it's for that Gen Z out there who's just at the start of their career, and they're trying to figure out how to deliberately create it. It's for the high achiever out there who maybe has reached a pinnacle, maybe they're a director, and they're wanting to understand, how do I get to the next level. It's for the self-doubter who's trying to understand how do I break through this self-doubt so that I can take on the passion project that I've always wanted to do, but I'm afraid of stepping in the abyss.
John:And I would say it's also for the athletes out there who are trying to up their game and go from being good at what they do to becoming a breakout performer.
Russell:Interesting. And if thinking about the book as you've written it, what's your favourite lesson that you talk about or skill that you preach or concept that you're delivering? What's the thing that makes you proudest, that you're most keen to impart?
John:So I think what I'm most proud is the overarching model upon which the book is built, and that is this cohesion of understanding how mindset shifts, behaviour shifts, and taking conscious and deliberate action all interact with each other. And I've given six mindset shifts that could be applied. Six behaviour shifts. I started out with probably 25. I just condensed it to those twelve because as I did seven years of research on this, I found that they were the ones that kept showing up again and again as I was studying the titans of industry, or the best professional athletes or actors, and what I saw other people use that I found successful in my life.
John:But the key here is to learn how to use those shifts in conjunction with the behaviour changes, with that lens of learning how to make the choices that you're making throughout your day. These tiny, nebulous microchoices, and seeing them not as that small, tiny thing, but as a tiny action that can lead to a tremendous change in your life. Because once you start making these changes in one area of your life, you're going to see them multiply in other areas and it's going to cascade, and over time, you're going to have this hockey stick effect, as I like to call it, where you will achieve greatness in so many areas that you would have never, ever thought you were capable of achieving.
Russell:Interesting. So, a lot of books are theoretical. They're polemics. They're almost self-help. How to's, what's the approach? How do I approach this? How do I access it?
John:So I wanted to write a book that was not meant to be read, it was meant to be lived. And so that's how I approached the book. And so, in each chapter, what I try to do is I outline a principle. I try to tell a story about how I've applied it in my life. I then back it up with either psychology or behaviour science. And these come from interviews and or books from some of the most prominent leaders that there are out there. People like Jonah Berger, Katie Milkman, Max Bezerman, Marianne Lewis and Wendy Smith on both and thinking, Robin Sharma, Marshall Goldsmith, Matt Higgins and others. And then I give an illustration to the reader of how a person, through a story, has implemented this principle in their life.
John:And then at the end of each chapter, I give actionable takeaways for how they can go about applying it in theirs. And then, most importantly, the third section of my book is all about how you take intentional action. So, it starts out with a quiz that you can take, identifying where you stand on the passion struck continuum, so you understand your starting point. And then I give a real-life example of an individual that I met named Nate Dukes, who started out from ground Zero, applied all the principles in his life, and it kind of goes you through a matrix of the steps that he took. So, it makes it real for a reader of the book.
John:And then I have QR codes throughout the book that if you click on them, will give you access to four methodologies that I've developed in the form of eBooks, where certain of these concepts, you can go in to them in much more detail, with templates and step by step instructions on how to implement them. Because at the end of the day, I wrote this because I really want to help people. I want to help people get out of feeling stuck. We've got too many people right now in the world who are lonely, helpless, hopeless, and we need to break this cycle. So that's what I'm hoping I can do with this, is to give the gift of knowledge to help people not just read but take action on their lives.
Russell:Yeah, it sounds absolutely brilliant. I'm sad that when we're recording this, it's still on pre order. So, I was just about to go and buy it and I couldn't. So, I shall look forward to its release. And John, how can people find out more about you or the book itself?
John:So I am easily discoverable on social media. You can find me everywhere at John R. Miles Instagram, Twitter. Still can't get used to that name, LinkedIn. I'm very active on as well. I have two websites. If you want to know more about me personally, you can go to my website, John R. Miles, where I have a weekly blog. If you want to know more about the company, you can go to passionstruck.com. I have a podcast called the Passionstruck podcast, and it kind of mirrors what I'm doing in the book. I try to bring on experts in the areas of either behaviour science, health science, spiritual or meditative sciences, people like Sharon Salzberg or positive psychology.
John:And then I couple that with telling real life stories of people who I consider to be everyday heroes, who are just like you and me, might have been stuck in our lives and have figured out the ways to get unstuck because I think those stories are more relatable. And then I do a solo episode every week as well where I randomly just teach different aspects of behaviour, science, and change.
Russell:Sounds absolutely fascinating. So johnrmiles.com or passionstruck.com is where you'll find information and no doubt in all good bookshops and online portals, et cetera. John has been absolutely fascinating. I'm going to diary to acquire that book as soon as it comes out, and I recommend everybody having a look at your work because it looks absolutely fascinating. So, thank you for spending time with us today.
John:Yeah, thank you so much, Russell. It's always just an honour and privilege to be able to serve another podcaster and their audience because I think we in podcasts aren't competing. We are each trying to spread our word out there to our audiences to help people. Yeah.
Russell:And it's that thing about we often all say the same things, but sometimes hearing a different voice or expressed in a different way or a different metaphor analogy, different examples, they're the things that bring it home for people. So, we're all in the business of actually helping, as you say. So, it's about finding the person that can help you best.
John:Absolutely.
Russell:Brilliant. Well, look, thanks so much and thank you for your time, and you take care.
John:Thank you so much.