Hi all and welcome back to Resilience Unravelled. And today I'm delighted to be talking to oh my goodness gracious, I can't say it, Antonio Garrido. And with such a wonderful sounding evocative beautiful name. Antonio, delight us with your wonderful accent.
Antonio:Hi Russell, thanks for the invitation. I've been a fan of the podcast for a while. It's interesting because in the UK, so we have clients all over, were just talking off air, but in the UK, I have a very usual accent and an unusual name. But when I'm hanging out in Miami, which is where one of our offices is, I have a very usual name but a very unusual accent. It kind of flips over but it's Spanish, the kind of origin my father was Spanish and my mother from Athens in Greece.
Russell:Oh really? Wow.
Antonio:For the UK audience my accent is quite normal, I suppose.
Russell:Yeah, absolutely fine. Well, it's great to talk to you today. Well tell us just a little bit about you maybe before we talk about the concepts we're going to discuss.
Antonio:Oh gosh, it's not a therapy session.
Russell:No just the old 1-minute potted history.
Antonio:So it's probably only interesting to me and I was going to say my wife and kids were probably not even them. So, I came out of university a million years ago, some fairly ancient as an architect, so I was originally genuinely because careers are, so I mean they are tricky things to manage even if there is such a thing as being able to manage them. But I found myself by luck rather than judgment running a few kinds of departments. I went from the drawing board to kind of managing drawing teams and then found myself working for an organisation who sent me back to school to do sort of strategic business management kind of a further degree MBA type thing because they wanted me to run a whole division of the organisation.
Antonio:So I kind of headed out to Europe and then just went from architecture to management leadership and I was so fortunate to work for some tremendously insightful leaders. No doubt we'll talk about a few of those later on. So ended up leading what you would call maybe top 60 PLCs. Very large organisations with thousands of people and billions in revenue and then about twelve years ago I thought I've worked for so many tremendous leaders, maybe I should see if I could maybe help coach some of them. So, I did a bit of consultancy for a couple of years, did consultancy for the NHS for a year or so.
Antonio:Very fortunate to get that rather large gig and then went off to Miami to set up the business and we did terribly well and now we coach leaders all across the world from solopreneurs all the way to the biggest that there is or that there are know that there is. So yeah, I could go on, but you're probably bored already.
Russell:But that's interesting. It's quite interesting, isn't it? How that progression from being a technical person and how you leave that behind and become a specialist, leader or manager is actually quite hard for people to do, isn't it? They often bring that the detriment of their technical job.
Antonio:Yeah, they don't often see leadership management as being a specific job in its own right. Okay, we could have that debate, we could be debating that all day. But I guess it's fair to say that I wasn't such a tremendously good architect. I was okay, I was very creative. But in terms of being quite sure that the buildings were going to remain standing for any particular length of time, I don't suppose was my forte. So, I was very good at designing, I was very good at conceptualising, but I wasn't very good at actually getting that well, I just couldn't be bothered with the detail of it. It's a fair point, but I was more the creative conceptual artist than the structural consultant engineer, I guess.
Russell:I wasn't levelling that accusation at you. What I was actually thinking generically is you often find leaders who are still hanging on to the vestiges of the technical job. They won't let things go, they don't see leadership as they progress through an organisation being something that's separate.
Antonio:Yeah, I've seen a bit of that. What I think I see more of is nobody comes out of university. I mean, there are people that you don't even have to go to university, but there are people that start an organisation, therefore buy into the fact that they were the founder. They find themselves at the top of the pyramid don't they, with kind of layers coming under and so they find themselves from day one, if you like, in charge. But that's not most businesses, not the ones that we work with at any rate, but there's a large proportion of that. But most leaders of large and complex organisations, they have come through a particular route. So, some have come through sales and marketing, some have come through accounts, and the finance route, and then some have come through logistics or supply chain or as we talked about it before we started as well. So, they normally come to a leadership position having specialised in certain kind of discipline. So, what we do find to answer your point, I think, I hope, is that those that were CFOs have a very functional kind of money, statistics, numbers bent, those that come through sales and marketing are oftentimes more optimistic, perhaps oftentimes more creative. Those that have come through do you get my point? So, they normally come to the leadership position having specialised and having excelled in a particular area.
Antonio:And one of the things that we try and encourage them to do is to look beyond that because we say to a lot of leaders that were CFOs to tell me about companies that have saved the way towards prosperity, right, because they're always like, every pound is a prisoner, and they can't move beyond that. So, we do find that. Yeah, but as far as kind of my particular route from architecture to leadership development, I think I worked for a guy once that every time I sent an email, he would say, oh, Garrido has written another novel, right, because it was just so long. And so just you can tell already that he's very verbose and I just kind of can talk and write forever.
Antonio:So I always, whilst I was an architect, always wanted to be a writer. And this is my third book, so I do write a lot. And so, I think for me, the whole thing was about creativity, but then taking all of the stuff I'd learned from the tremendous leaders I worked for and kind of put it together in our own leadership model and I guess that's how that happens. So, there is structure because we're very models based. We base everything on a model. If we can't rationalise it, justify it by a model, we tend to discourage it.
Russell:Okay, well, give me an example of one of those models. And interesting to see what you mean by that.
Antonio:Yeah, well, I mean, we have lots of one of the ones that we kind of rely on more than anything else is we talk to our leaders in the same way that you talk about resilience all the time we talk about potential. Right? So, we say a leader's job is to maximise certain potentials. And when we get specific about that potential, we'll say, well, we've got to maximise their own potential, maximise the potential of their leaders, their people, and therefore by default, maximise the potential of the business. And we have models that say, well, how do we maximise potential? And then we'll say, okay, well, that kind of falls within four particular areas. We want to make sure that we've got the right beliefs and values. So, there is something to do with beliefs and values.
Antonio:And I know when you talk about resilience, that's very important. And then it's kind of behaviours, actions, and initiatives, right, so that's another model. And then you can't just think, you wait to greatness. You've also then got to do some things that's the actions and initiatives. And then we need skills and techniques. So, we're constantly improving skills and techniques. And then we wrap the whole thing around kind of self-awareness or EQ more than anything else. So emotional intelligence. So, we use these models that we're always talking to people and say, okay, well, let's just be very specific about what's your intent for this particular thing today? Is this a behaviour initiative thing? Is this a values thing? Is this a self-awareness thing? So, we're constantly pointing people towards models. Are we trying to close gaps here? Are we coaching patterns here?
Antonio:Largely, we boil everything down to two things, I guess, if I had to be as broad and brush stroked as that, which is, are we lighting fires within people today or are we lighting fires under people today? Right. So, are we leading or are we managing? I'm going to say about 30 different models that we use on a very regular basis. So, we'll say, for example, we'll follow a leader around, and we'll say we won't follow them around. We don't stalk them, but we'll say, so what have you been doing in the last week? Say, for example, have you been more people focused or have you been more task focused? Have you been more proactive, or have you been more reactive? And we have a model for that. We want people to be people focused and proactive rather than reactive.
Antonio:And we're constantly saying, are you moving up and to the right? In other words, are you in the right kind of zone on the ground? So those kinds of models, and we have about 30 of those. Does that make sense?
Russell:It makes a lot of sense. I think what you're talking about is you're wrapping a process around common sense.
Antonio:Yeah. Well, yeah, but who was it? Was it Mark Twain or somebody? Oh, yeah, okay. I wouldn't even bother.
Russell:We can all chant that one.
Antonio:Very good.
Russell:So the latest book, because you mentioned that you've written 10,000, actually, this is your third one, I think you said, isn't it? So, what's the thrust behind this one in particular?
Antonio:Thank you for that. The thrust behind this one is, I guess, more than anything else, it's that self-awareness piece, that emotional intelligence piece. So, when I got my first, what I would call significant job, right, which was one of these Top 60 PLCs, the fact of the matter is, and I'll tell you and nobody else, of course, but I actually wasn't sort of ready for the role. And it was politics more than anything else that decided that I was going to get that job. So, on day two or day three, when I came in the morning, there was a note on my desk from the group chairman asking me to come to his office, because this was before email, right? And I thought, Arthur found me out, right. In only 48, 72 hours, I'm going to get fired today.
Antonio:So I went to his office, and it was a really interesting conversation that we had, and I encourage your audience to think about the story I'm just about to tell you, and if they took five minutes or ten minutes, it's a real practical exercise that they can do that will really help, I think. Certainly, it helped me, at any rate. So, he asked me two real big questions. The first question was, he said, have you ever worked for a dreadful boss, right? And I thought, this is a trick question, right? Because he expected me to say to him. So, I said, yeah, I have worked, and I've worked for a couple of terrible individuals. So, I'd like your audience to think now about what would that mean? How does that apply to their world? So, have they ever worked for a terrible boss?
Antonio:Or have they ever been in a situation that they haven't enjoyed? Have they ever worked with partners and all of that kind of stuff, right? But I'll keep it to this story. So, he said, have you ever worked for a terrible boss? I said yeah. He said, okay, great. He said good. And then he gave me a piece of paper and a pen, and he slid it across his pretty vast desk, and he said, could you write down what the characteristics of a terrible boss look like? I said yes. Sure. So, I wrote down, what does dreadfulness look like in this particular regard. And you're already probably thinking maybe somebody that micromanages inconsistent plays favourites. I don't know. Right, whatever. Right? So, characteristics of dreadfulness in terms of a boss.
Antonio:So I then slid the piece of paper back and said, yes. They said that's exactly right. That's exactly what a terrible boss looks like. Give me some more. So, then I wrote maybe another four or five. And this went on a couple of times. And now I have a list of about 15 things that dreadful bosses, dreadful leadership, kind of like a model of awfulness. And he said, yeah, that's a really good list. He said, Will you do me a favour? When you are here whenever you are leading this business will you promise me that you never do any of the things on this list? Right? And it kind of took me by surprise, rather. And I went, yeah, okay, I promise I'll try and never do the things on that list.
Antonio:Will you carry that list with you at all times? And then if I ever I see you in the canteen or whatever or stop or you're passing by, pop in, get your list out, we'll have a chat about it. This is such a bizarre conversation. So, I said, yeah, okay. Yeah, I'll do that. I'll do that. He said, Okay. Terrific. And then he said, but how would you know if you're doing any of those terrible things? And I went, Well, I'm not. Well, I'll just know, won't I? And he went, yeah, maybe not. So, he said, do you journal? I am coming back to answer your question, Ross, I promise. He said, do you journal? And I said, no, I don’t because I didn't. Right? And he said, well, why not? And I wasn't actually sure why I didn't.
Antonio:But you can probably tell I'm a certain individual at the moment. So rather than have nothing to say, I said, well, probably because I'm not a 16-year-old Victorian schoolgirl, right? Because that's what I thought. Dear journal, dear diary. So, he said, okay, well, do me a favour. Go and find eight of the most successful people that you can think of in any walk of life. Right? In any walk of life, measuring success however you like, right? So, it doesn't have to be wealth or power or anything like that, right? But in any walk of life, sports, entertainment, whatever, and see if you can find out whether or not they journal. And then when you've done that, come back and chat with me. I thought this guy's weird but off I went.
Antonio:I found eight people who I thought were the most successful individuals that I knew, the Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, and Warren Buffets of this world, who, by the way, I know Steve Jobs is no longer with us, but they actually also journal. Anybody you can think of, any sports personality, anybody that's excelled in business, like, any of those kinds of things. 99 out of 100, they all do journal. I didn't know that at this time. So anyway, I went back and said, okay, I got it. All right, I got it. They all journal. All right, so I should journal then, shouldn't I? And he went, well only if you want to know how to get better. Only if you want to build your self-awareness. Only if you want to know if you're doing any of those things on that list.
Antonio:And only if you want to know in advance whether or not you're doing any of those things on that list. I said, okay, generally, just not me, right? And it's a little bit like I had another boss once that went to the dentist, and the dentist said, hey, listen, I know you brush every day, and by the way, we all brush every day. So, there are some things that we do every single day for five minutes, every day, twice a day, right, like brushing our teeth. And the dentist said, you also ought to floss. And he went, well, all of my teeth? He said, no, just the ones that you want to keep, right?
Antonio:So there are certain habits that we do, and what we do is we brush our teeth every single morning and every single evening, we don't wait till Sunday and just brush them for 2 hours and just wait for our gums to bleed, right? So, there are certain things that we do because we know that they are the right thing to do, even though we don't actually see the benefit that very second. Well, journaling is a bit like that. And I was thinking, I don't know that I'm that guy, but we'll give it a go. Trouble is, I don't know what to do. I don't know what to write. I don't know that's the biggest problem for most people, isn't it? Well, it's the writing because so many of them these days say, well, can I type it? And we say no.
Russell:Okay.
Antonio:And then they get very grumpy, and they go we do live in the modern age. There are apps. I said, yeah, we've got an app. It's a phenomenal app. We'll give you videos every day, we'll give you prompts every day, but you got to write them down because we talk a lot about it in the book. There's so much research that there is editing and then the whole process of telling your hand to do so anyway, so I won't get into that, it's very boring. But your ability to learn and develop is significantly like 300 times improved by writing some thoughts down as opposed to just thinking some stuff. But anyway, so I suppose don't know what to write and I don't know where to start and how would I do it and how much do I write and blah, blah, blah.
Antonio:And he said, okay, great, well, let's just start. And then he gave me a bunch of prompts. We talked about them in the book, and we talked about them on our website, we talked about them all over the place and we got downloads and all of that kind of stuff because we just kind want to make a start. So, he gave me some really powerful exercises, which is like write down 100 things that you want, right? And he said, go bad, anything, just go bananas, right? So, it could be only wearing handmade Italian shoes, only flying first class only, right? Write down 100 things that you want. And then when I did that, I said, okay, now write down 100 things you need. And that's really hard, right?
Antonio:Because you don't things you suddenly discover that these are the things you want, but these are the only things that you need. And then he said, do you see the difference between those two? And this is a conversation I'm now recounting over weeks, right? Yes. And he said, how does that make you feel? I went, pretty grateful, really. And in the book, again, we talk about things like gratitude is so important and it's so important for resilience and gratitude is so key to build people's resilience. You can't have a positive life if it's filled with negativity and negative thoughts and same for leaders and same for everybody. And one of the things that Journaling does is it's a place for that gratitude anyway, journaling is a place for a lot of places.
Antonio:I developed that habit of journaling for years and years and there's a whole pile of them in this bookshelf just over here. I keep them all and brilliant. We have a lot of our clients that have journaled for years. We get to a certain point, and we bind them good idea. To their children and their grandchildren, you love I mean, I would. So, my grandfather, I'd love to know what he thought every day about stuff, right? But anyway, so what are we trying to do? I think I'm answering the question about the book, right? So, we developed over years and years, a really great model to grow EQ and self-awareness and so on. I gave a talk a couple of years ago. In fact, it was just before COVID to about 400, maybe 500 people.
Antonio:And I asked, I said, by show of hands, who here has no blind spots? Unfortunately, Russell, nobody put their hands up. So, everybody recognises they've got some blind spots. We all have, right? Everybody knows that we're not perfect in every single regard. Although I know when our mother was bouncing us on her knee when were four or five, convincing us that were the smartest, most handsome, most creative, and gorgeous individual in the history of the universe, right? And I'm not saying she was lying to us, but she meant it when she said it, but maybe she wasn't. Maybe it wasn't quite right. So, we all have some blind spots. So, I said, okay. Good. So, by a show of hands, who hasn't got any blind spots, and nobody put their hands up? Terrific. Okay.
Antonio:Now, I then asked everybody if they could take a minute to just write down what they were. Now, that's tricky, because if we knew what they were, then they wouldn't be blind spots, right? Journaling is one of the best ways to resolve that. And again, it comes down to it's a great analogy for resilience as well. If we're going to grow self-awareness helps with resilience, emotional intelligence, impulse control, empathy, all of these things, all of this whole EQ thing really helps with journaling. So, we put together a programme that would help individuals to grow their self-awareness so that they could figure out what their blind spots were, so that they then could do something about it.
Antonio:So I was taught, if you like, loosely, to journal by a terrific individual. And then when I left that organisation, went to another one, the next guy, who was also a super duper, incredibly self-aware and self-actualised leader, who also journaled. We kind of started this programme where we got the whole leadership team to journal and then the management team, and it gathered its own momentum in its own life. I say this is my third book because I wrote two other books just about business and about sales and growth and management and stuff. And I thought, you know what? Why so many people ask us so many questions about journaling.
Antonio:Why don't we just finally kind of draw a line under it and let everybody know what they should write and when they should write and how much they should write and why they should write about those particular things? And then by the time they get to the end of the book, if they want to continue, we help them with that, too. But we don't coach anyone. We don't help anyone. We don't train anyone. We don't work with anyone that doesn't journal. And my coach, because I think if any business coach doesn't have a coach, then how can they be authentic, right? How can they say, you need a coach, but I don't need one, right? My coach, who is a fourth-generation or was a fourth-generation submarine commander, they don't kind of give submarines just to anybody to play around with.
Antonio:And he coaches presidents of countries as well as presidents of companies, right. If they don't send him an image, a photo of their journal, it's not our journal, just whatever they journal. And every leader of every company and country, they do all journal. But if they don't send an image of their weekly journal to him, he won't even coach them. He won't take their call when they ring him, he won't pick up. I'm not saying that we're quite austere. That's probably not the right word. What strict that'll do, perfect as he is, but, you know, every day is every day. Every day is every day. You brush your teeth every day are the ones you want to keep.
Russell:Is the book your reflections about yourself, or is it a guide on how to journal?
Antonio:It's both. Why did I start to journal? And that's only one chapter, right? And it's kind of the story that we've just talked about now in a little bit more detail, and then it's okay. So, we're trying to build self-awareness. Why? There's another chapter in self-awareness. We're trying to build gratitude. Why? And there's another one on that we're trying to build. Right? So, it's both. It's an explanation as to why we should journal, but also three or four different models that you can follow that would make it very easy to get into the process of it. And once you're into the swing of it, I think we give 30 days. Just do this for 30 days. Do this for 30 days. And if you get to the end of it and you don't fancy it, don't do it.
Antonio:But you'll be amazed at how many times we'll say you've got someone who's listening now who thinks, okay, I hear what you said. It's interesting. I've heard about it. Everyone bangs on about it. I'll have to write it down. So, I'll go and buy myself a book, and I'll get myself a nice pen. What is just literally the simplest first step, other than just write something? Because I hate people say that. What's the most practical first step?
Antonio:Yeah. So, we're very much against so I'll be quite specific about this. We are very much against hey, listen, just get a journal, and start writing 100%. That's not the thing to do. We have to be very intentional about what it is that we're trying to achieve. So, it's not just your rambling thoughts. You're not that interesting, right? You're not Ernest Hemingway. Right. You're not Samuel Peeps. So don't just start writing, here's my feelings and thoughts about stuff. No one's interested, so don't do that. So, let's be intentional about what it is that we're trying to do. It's not just rambling thoughts. So, we have a few real starter models, right? If you like, just start doing this with some regularity and some stuff will improve.
Antonio:So, you know, I am sure that there's a difference between an affirmation and an affirmation, but so let's start with some affirmations, right? Let's have some goals. Let's try and be a bit specific about what we're trying to achieve, and we can have a whole session about what those goals might be, right? Let's start by where you want to be in six months’ time and just actually write that out. So, six months from today, what would you like your world to look like? And you can get quite creative, right? I'll give you an example. A client of ours, a lawyer, she had some business goals, right? And she had some goals, and she'd written down what she wanted to do with her business, how she wanted her business to grow, and okay, great.
Antonio:Then we said to her, okay, what are your core values? And she said, well, I'm not really sure what my core values are. Well, what do you believe in? What things are important to you? Right? What are your commandments, your ethos? Right? What things drive you? And she said she wasn't quite sure. And for anyone that's listening, we have a super-duper easy worksheet on our website. Just go to it, download it. You'll find out what your core values are in ten minutes. So, start with that. Let's start with what you believe and what your core values are. Okay, good. That can be our compass now. That's kind of our North Star and everything that we do should be consistent with that. Okay? So, we've got some core values, we've got some business goals, and then let's write down some personal goals.
Antonio:Okay, so now we know what we're working towards in six months’ time, where do you want to close some of those biggest gaps? Right? And so, we'll start with that's kind of like, have an objective in mind. It's a bit like a pilot doesn't just take off from JFK and hope to land in right, in Heathrow, like 8 hours later. They'll have a plan. They'll have a pre-flight plan, and they'll course correct along the way a thousand times. Of course, they will. But they have a goal that they've written down, right? The flight plan and the pre-flight checks and all that kind of stuff. So where are you today? Where would you like to be? This is a good place to start, right? And now we're going to kind of close those gaps.
Antonio:So let's start with some affirmations, some stuff that we're kind of like, where are we now? How close are we to it? How far are we? Where are the biggest gaps? All of that stuff. Then we'll say, okay, what beliefs do we need? What are our supportive beliefs to start to close that gap? Let's tell ourselves that we kind of deserve this stuff, and we've got some supportive beliefs with that. And again, when you come down to resilience, one of the big things about resilience grit and determination and resilience is the knowledge that we're kind of worth it, right? That got that. We then tell people, look, to get from where we are to where we want to be, we're typically going to have to do something new, right?
Antonio:Because if you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got, right? That whole Einstein thing about what is insanity? Doing the same thing, expecting different results. So, we then have them accept that the magic happens outside your comfort zones, right? So, we're going to have to get outside our comfort zone. So, we'll have them understand the principle that there's no growth in your comfort zone and there's no comfort in your growth zone, right? So, we're going to have to get a little bit uncomfortable in certain kind of areas. Okay? So, we'll say start with some affirmations, start with some beliefs, and then start with some commitments, some tiny commitments, right? So, it's just ABC, right? As simple as that. How can we start very early, very easy. Where are we today? In a bunch of areas.
Antonio:Where do we want to be? And they're in the book or they're on the website. So where are we today? Where do we want to be in six months’ time? Let's start with some affirmations, some beliefs, some commitments, tiny, small steps that are going to get us from where we are to where we want to be and just start writing about those.
Russell:And that's great because that's very practical and it's almost a self-coaching model. And then, of course, I guess you're reflecting and you're evaluating and monitoring. You keep referring to the site and the book. So, you better tell us the name of the site and the name of the book, so we know where to get it.
Antonio:Okay, can I just make one more point? Right? One affirmation, two beliefs. Three commitments every day. One, two, three, ABC. One, two, three, easy peasy lemon squeezy, right? And so that's every morning. And then every morning you just like, practically ABC, 123123 ABC. Then in the evening, I'm closing it off, and then I'll tell you where I can get some more information. So that's if you like your goal for the day, right? Then every evening, what I'd like you then to do is spend five minutes like how did I do? How did I do? These are the kind of the commitments I made this morning. Did I do those things in the evening? Some days you did, some days you didn't. But here's the thing. Here's where the self-awareness comes from. Give yourself a report card.
Antonio:Just go, yeah, probably a B minus today. And when you give yourself a B minus today, you say, well, what could I have done? Or what should I have done when I did this? What maybe have been better if I did something else? So, you do a morning momentum, ABC, one, two, three, an evening evaluation. What did my report card look like? Where could I have done better? And suddenly we are now in the whole process of building this self-awareness and this whole process of I could have been better. Now, the whole thing, as you say, Russell, is all backwards looking. It's all reflective. It's all in the rear-view mirror. What happens when you do that enough with enough density. And I'm not talking years. I'm just talking a couple of weeks.
Antonio:Within a couple of weeks, you'll start to change the decisions you make in the moment. Because if every day you're looking backwards, what starts to happen? After about a couple of weeks, something comes your way. And instead of just responding to it, you think I'm going to have to review this a bit later. On today. So, I might as well do that work now so that I now respond in the moment in a much better in something. I'm going to be happier with my future self this evening, will be happier with me for doing this thing now. And so you become very kind of self-aware in the moment and intentional in the moment. And as soon as we've got a bit by using a bit of hindsight, we get a bit of insight, which leads to better foresight. Okay?
Antonio:I hope that answered your question. Where can you get more stuff? Just go to all the W's. Mydailyleadership.com. So mydailyleadership all one word. Or you can go on Amazon, buy the book. I narrated this book. I didn't narrate my other two books, but I narrated this one because the jokes only sounded good in my language, I think, or in my head. So, if you want, you can get the book, paper, electronic, audio, usual Amazon. So Mydailyleadership.com is the book and it's also the site.
Russell:Brilliant, Antonio. It's a mean, and I just suddenly looked at the time and thought, blimey, that's rocketed past. I need to be respectful of your time. So, thanks for spending time with us today. The site is mydailyleadership.com as the name of the book just looked at on Amazon. It's sitting there with lots of wonderful reviews. So, it's been great. Thank you so much for spending time with us today.
Antonio:Thank you, Russell. I've enjoyed it. Thank you very much. Later.
Russell:Take care cheers.