Hello and welcome back to Resilience Unravelled and I'm talking to someone incredibly special today. She's going to tell you how special she is in a little while and I'm sure you're going to discover for herself. But this is Alyse Maslonik and we’ll be talking to her today. Hello, Alyse How are you?
Alyse:Hi, how are you doing? It's good to be here.
Russell:Great. Superb. We've just been chatting earlier about the fact that you're going to be on the news in an hour or so. So, what have you done? What's going on? Tell me about it.
Alyse:Sure. So, we are raising money through the news having a telethon to raise scholarship funding for underprivileged kids and students through elementary all the way until high school so that they can maybe get out of a failing school district in their area and have the means to do so.
Russell:Sounds brilliant. So, no interview from Tucker Carlson, though, to look forward to.
Alyse:Yeah.
Russell:That's not really a news programme though, was it?
Alyse:No, it was not.
Russell:Yeah, well, it's lovely to chat to you. And first of all, I thought you were going to tell me that this was a news programme celebrating your recent achievement, about the hundred most significant women in America. Something along those lines, yeah. Come on.
Alyse:Yes. It was really exciting. Just this week I found out through the Know Women and presented by JP Morgan and Chase that I was selected as one of the top 100 women to know in America, which was really cool to open that message and see that I was selected.
Russell:So we're not slumming it today. We have someone in our midst that we can say we know is elite. And how fantastic is this? So brilliant. Well, thanks for spending time with us today. Your obviously from across the pond. Tell us a little bit about yourself.
Alyse:Yeah. So, I am from Pennsylvania in the United States. On the East Coast. And I really started out, I feel as though I have lived a similar upbringing than as people in hard times. So, I started my life in a domestic abuse shelter and that's really where my story began, and we had in the US. Obviously, childhood poverty is a big issue that they don't really talk about on the world stage, but it really is prevalent here and I was that statistic. So, with that poverty comes and lack of financial resources also comes oftentimes abuse or mistreatment or neglect through your either biological parents or stepparents. And it was my biological father who forced us into a domestic abuse shelter. And thankfully though, the night that he had done what he'd done, he attempted to murder my mother along with my sister and I were home at the time and were so grateful.
Alyse:The neighbour came over and through the sliding glass door saw what was happening as he was holding an axe and was able to call the police. And he saved our lives that day along with my mom being able to keep her strength and keep her consciousness and fight for her kids’ lives, but were able to make it to the domestic abuse shelter and have a safe haven. And I've gone through other traumas in my life, but I think the biggest thing that I want to bring awareness to, especially in America today, there is so much political pushback happening where many of the legislatures, they don't want to fund these social programs, they see it as a waste of money. But oftentimes what happens is if they don't invest in it now, the issues and problems that are caused in the future are way more expensive and there are truly lives that will be lost from their decisions.
Russell:Okay, brilliant. Well, you've given us a huge amount to go up there, so that's absolutely brilliant. Thank you very much. Places of safe haven refuges, places like that, social care, all this sort of idea. There are people who go into that world and become a completely scarred, battered, bruised, mentally, physically, whatever it might be, they have a terrible time. But you seem to have found that process or you've been able to deal with that process and move forward, and it's made you stronger in a way. So, could you talk a little bit about that? Because for me, resilience is the key to what we talk about here. And it strikes me that the resilience, something about you or something about the process you've gone through has developed that resilience, or maybe you had it in the first place.
Russell:Could you widen the subject around that?
Alyse:Yeah, and I love what your podcast is about. So again, thank you so much for having me on because I look back and resilience is such a key to where I am today and the process. I got so angry, Russell. I got so angry with what had happened to me in my life and how I was treated and how I was really left behind, right? And at least in America and probably society as a whole, we're treated that anger is a bad thing, right? And you got to get rid of it and you should be ashamed of anger, and you got to be the bigger person and forgive and all of those things. And I found myself kind of this burning rage inside of me that it was too big to put out and I didn't know what to do. And so, I really learned that anger could be a tool, it can be used for bad, but it is so powerful when you can transform that anger into something good.
Alyse:And we have this saying in my family, and I can't believe I'm going to admit this, but we call ourselves cockroaches. And it sounds really gross and disgusting and weird, but we always say that if an atomic bomb dropped on this world, our life built us to be the ones to survive, to rebuild humanity. And it is just that belief that the struggle that I've gone through in my past, there is nothing in my future that could be as bad. So, I know that I was built to overcome it.
Russell:Yeah. And I think that's really brilliant. They always hear that. One of these two narratives with people who've had a difficult background, either it has defined them negatively, often, so they have become less than they were capable, or somehow, they've been able to rise above it and use that process. And what it gave them was perspective. It said, nothing could be as bad as this. I have nothing to fear. And I think that perspective is vital. And I don't know whether educationally or parentally, whether we allow kids these days to have those difficult experiences, so they never build that perspective.
Alyse:I 100% agree. I remember, I think, a lot of the resilience for so long, I knew that poverty was in my blood. I knew that trauma was in my blood, and that was the generational affliction before me that was bound to happen to me. Right. But going through that situation and really trying to be a sponge to my surroundings and see how other people are getting out of this, right. I looked at my mom and I saw, yeah, she had all of that too, in her, but boy, does she have resilience in her blood and tenacity and that defiance to go through and even out every single odd that is stacked against you. And that's what motivates me. And I think in our family, we kind of stop that cycle because all of us had that desire to not fit in the box that society tells us to fit in.
Russell:And that's fascinating, the way you describe the way you express that, because actually you're showing that as a sign of good or a sign of parenting. Some people will have views on that. I would say it was good parenting, but you're not saying this is genetic. You're actually saying that grit and determination, that mindset, in a sense, is something that you learn and you develop and you have been passed it on because your mother had it. It's not something that's genetic, is it? It's inherently learnable, isn't it? And therefore, poor parenting, weakness of character or whatever signs of learned helplessness. Something with learned helplessness is deliberate, isn't it? Because it is learned. And I just wonder where your mother learned it from. Did she go through a similar sort of period of hardship as well?
Alyse:Yes, and it's so funny. I actually went to school for sociology, so the study between nurture versus nature is always very interesting to me. So, I'm glad that you pointed that out. But, yeah, I think for me, watching her just scrape by and pull herself out of desperation, it really gave me a roadmap that if I was willing to follow it and it sometimes was ugly, Russell. Sometimes it was really ugly. But each time she just kept trekking forward. And so, yes, it is learnable. But my mom, she went through struggles on her own. I mean, my biological father was terrible to her. So, the fact that she was even able to get out on her own, let alone bring her kids out of that is beautiful and such a triumph over that tragedy. So, yeah, she definitely learned that. But as you said, perspective.
Alyse:It is all about perspective. And I could sit here for hours and go through every single thing that happened in my life, and it's a lot of bad. It genuinely is a lot of bad. And when people hear it's hard for them to even hear some of the things that I live through. So, I understand that there's a lot of negative that I could hold on to. But I step outside, and I see that sunrise every single day, and it gives me hope that I am this small. And even when my problems seem this big, the world is bigger. And the communities that surround us and the good people that are out there far outweigh the negative. And we have to hold on to that. Because if we choose, and I believe it is a choice, if we choose to hold on to the good people and the good in the world, good things will come out of that trauma but if we choose to hold on to the negative things will ultimately come.
Russell:Well, those are those of you those are people who listen to this podcast regularly. You press normal buttons to you because choice is my favourite word. And everything for me is a choice. Choices have consequences. Choices are difficult. But for me, you couldn't be a different person today because all the situations and everything you've experienced has made you the person you are today. And I think people forget that. And part of it is the definition of how you see yourself. But also, it's also the way you've learned from the past as well.
Alyse:Absolutely.
Russell:And I think learning is a key part of this. I mean, you've learned by watching your mother. And I think that's fascinating because not everyone's aware of that role model aspect of parenting, are they? They sort of forget it.
Alyse:And I think, too, as someone that I will be 100% honest, it took me a lot of years to not be angry at my mom and recognize good relationship. Yes, we didn't speak for years because I was angry at some of the decisions that she made and the men that she kept in our lives. Right. But also, when you recognise that she was just struggling too. She was just struggling, too. And she didn't have all the tools that were available today. And again, the tools that are available today is not enough. That is what's needed. More is needed. But 20/30 years ago, it was even worse. Right. And so, I have to look at her and say, yeah, do I believe that she made some really disheartening mistakes that really affected me and my siblings? Absolutely. But she didn't make them with bad intentions, and she was doing the best she could.
Russell:I think that's the people I think people forget that, don't they? You can only make a decision at a period of time with the skills, tools, resources, capabilities that you have. And people say, oh, I look back on that decision. It was a wrong decision, but it could never have been another decision because you only had the skills, tools, resources, capabilities that you had. Was it the best decision? No. Was it the best you could have done? That's all you can do. It's like the idea in sport that you do the best you can. If the best you can is not good enough, at least you've done the best you can, and therefore, whatever decision you've had is the best decision you could have had. However, you sat me thinking about something a little while ago, and it's just been sitting in my head as we've chatted this through.
Russell:So forgive me for just changing on. I'm sure we'll come back to this, but you talked about being afraid of anger, and I'm quite fascinated by that because for me, anger is neither good nor bad. It's just energy, just a form of producing energy and a word that we associate it with it. But talk to me a little bit more about this idea that people should be ashamed of anger. I'm quite intrigued at that.
Alyse:Yeah. So, I'll tell you another story because it plays a big role. So, when I was 20 years old, I went through a criminal case because my stepfather had abused me and several other victims for about seven years. And went through a criminal trial in the American justice system, which held itself as rendering justice, but oftentimes it doesn't live up to those ideals. So went through this justice system, and there I was as someone that had lived through seven years of abuse from this man on the stand, and I was angry. But the defence attorneys, they pick that apart and they say that, well, someone that had this happen wouldn't be angry, it would make them sad. And you are literally picked apart as the victim for being angry. So, I was always so ashamed after he walked away a free man after that trial.
Russell:Wow.
Alyse:Yeah. Like I said, he had multiple victims, but walked away with a non-guilty verdict. And the closing arguments of that. His attorney had stuck with me for so many years. And a lot of the reasons that he was giving that were lying is because were so angry and we had a vendetta to go after him. It was something personal, not what these false charges is, what he was saying. So, I lived with that shame of being angry and having so much anger from the situation, but then also watching him walk away after having to bear my soul and go through details of everything that happened. And I got to a point that I realized it's a choice. Society is making me feel that my anger is bad. And right now, I'm allowing this anger to just eat at me, and it just feels like this fire that I'm trying to put out, and it's so powerful.
Alyse:I came to a point with a therapist that I said, if you're going to tell me that I need to forgive, then I'm going to not go to therapy anymore. But if you're going to tell me how I can transform this anger into something powerful and good for the world and use that strength for good, then I will stay. And so that's really what I did.
Russell:You see, that's fascinating in therapy because often the person sent a therapist always think gets confused about the idea of forgiveness. It's about forgiving yourself, not the other person, because it's okay. And the thing is, it's an interesting narrative, isn't it, that had a man being abused. The idea that they wouldn't be angry is quite interesting. So, there's like an inherent sexism of the fact that women are shall be prim and sad and in the place and helpless and weak and docile, something like a 40s Western with long dresses and handbags and all that sort of stuff. And it seems an odd thing that we don't allow women to be angry. We don't allow women to have strong emotions. There must be some inherent fear in America of women, and I can't put the finger on it.
Alyse:I think that we are always told that we shouldn't be angry. Because if we actually took a look at what society does to us in America as women and how we are treated statistically based on pay and what we contribute to our society. I think if we allowed ourselves to feel that anger as a whole, we would be dangerous in changing the status quo. So, I do think that it's a bigger thing at play here that it is designed to keep us and shame us for not feeling angry. Because, boy, if every woman that had a rightful anger based on the injustice that she experienced took that fuel and did something with it to create change, there would be no stopping women in the United States.
Russell:Yeah. So fantastic. First of all, I'm going to applaud you for saying that. Second, I've been saying this forever. Why should an old white man be saying this and women not saying it for themselves? And there seems to be a brainwashing thing going on in America because you hear a lot of American women talking away their rights, and I find that the hardest thing to listen to. And with me, too. The younger came together a little bit, and there was a tiny glimpse of what was achievable. But how well have women been brainwashed and what's to be done about that?
Alyse:Yeah, I think we are. I actually started my company, and the reason why I started my company is because I had an old boss that just treated me like a woman couldn't do it. And I was like, you should never do that to me. You did that to the wrong person. But it is just this every day. I think it's with advertising and it's with all of the information. The world is so vast where information is just at our fingertips, and that's a beautiful thing. But it can also be really dangerous when men or people in power are the ones really creating those messages that women see. So if you see it enough, right, it becomes the truth. And I think that is part of the problem in what's going on with women. But I don't understand how we can so easily talk our rights away and just be okay with it.
Alyse:But also on the flip side, in the US. I think one of the biggest issues is we are so busy. We are so busy, and the work weeks are long and you're just fighting to really survive, and you have to work. And so, people, they know that it's wrong, right? And they know what's happening is wrong, and they want inside, they get angry, and they want to do something. They got to put food on the table for their kids.
Russell:I'm going to throw a choice word back at you in a minute because you would expect me to, but I just wonder if that's not the problem. I just wonder if people don't know what to do. I often really believe that if there's a lack of action, it's because people don't know what to do. You don't have a strong female role model someone could follow. It strikes me as bizarre that Michelle Obama, for example, or even Oprah or whoever it is, would not be in the political arena throwing their weight around because there's what, 51% of the US. Are women. All right? We know good 10/15 percent are going to not vote for them because they're women. But actually, there's a heck a lot of women men who will vote for them because there's a lot of men who work for them and realize they're actually quite normal.
Russell:They're just different somehow. They're not that interested in cars and don't play football. And this is the thing, you see, it's like this encroachment in our space, and I think men have got this vested interest in sort of being defensive rather than recognising the idea that if you were truly a United States, you would be working together on this. But you're not. We're increasingly doing that. And Europe is. I mean, traditionally, for after any pandemic, the world swings to the right centre. And we're doing that now. And you either end up with a hot war or a cold war. And we seem to be on the same trail. And for me, that's scary. And it just needs someone to coalesce around and who's going to be the voice of women in America would be a fascinating thing. Maybe that's something your foundation should be looking at a bit more.
Alyse:Yeah, absolutely.
Russell:Something the work of the hundred women could be looking at, for example.
Alyse:Yes, and I think for me, one of the things that I love about being able to be the leader in my company and have that ownership is to hire other women that have been really taken advantage of in the US employment system. So, they do so much, and they bring in so much revenue and they're a huge asset to these companies but they're paying them $10 an hour. It blows my mind in the way that we structure things. And so, I think one of the coolest things that I've experienced is I really don't believe in a business that cannot pay their employees a liveable wage is not a business I think we need in our society. And when I look at that right, Russell, I don't think that's a crazy idea to have. But if you say that you're not going to get people that agree with you, it's very odd.
Russell:It's very odd that there are these people out there. But the construct of a certain form of capitalism is that if the company is there to make a huge amount of profit for the shareholders or the stockholders and if you're paying people too much, then you lose your profit. So, any company that's very profitable must be underpaying because that's the corolla concept. I was talking to another guest about this conscious capitalism or there's another form of capitalism which is about being more ethical. But you're right, if a company is underpaying, it effectively is over trading and should be out of business because that's called a sweatshop or modern labour or whatever the phrase might be. But we don't accept that, do we? Don't accept that we are exploiting people because we see giving people a job as being some sort of benevolent municipative gift. The jobs aren't gifts, they're exchanges on there.
Russell:They're trade, they're deals.
Alyse:Yes, 100%. And I think for me, being able to show I live in a really small rural town, right, when you talk about politics, not in line with anyone that lives around me. Right, but my whole goal was to really show other women that not only can you start a business and lead the business, but we can make a bigger impact than some of these men leading these businesses and that's exactly what we've done. And that is why I just get so proud of the women on my team and the fact that we really went for it because here we are, a year and a half in, and we've raised almost $12 million for students in our community. And no one can convince me that a different structure, a less compassionate business structure, could have been as successful.
Russell:No, I agree. And even if you're slightly less successful, so what? Because you're buying your stages, you are successful, but I think you get into these competitive degrees of shade and such like, which makes no sense. I coach a number of, oddly enough, number of very successful American women. I don't know why. It seems to become a niche. And I must introduce, I must run a conference for all the people I coach in America who are female. Because actually, if I could get you all together, that would be quite scary. Right, okay, so you mentioned a couple of times your organisation. Tell us a bit about it.
Alyse:Yeah, so my company is called Redefined Advisors, and we really are about redefining the educational system in the United States. So, what's happening now is obviously there's this spectrum over here and no one is really meeting in the middle. And so, what's happening is our students are really being failed because they're not funding the public schools in the right way. And so, the public schools are failing these students. And there are private educational systems out there that can take these students, but they can't take them for free because they don't get public funding, obviously. Right. So, what we do is we raise funding for those students that are in public schools that year over year. They don't have the funding. They're really failing these kids, and they're in underperforming districts that they're able to we give them and raise the finances so that we can cover their costs.
Alyse:So it's not just the wealthy students that get to leave their public school when it's failing. Right. It's an opportunity for everyone. So I think for us, giving kids that opportunity to have that education, it was so important to me because as a child, I received the same type of scholarship. I went to a public school; I was being bullied. I had terrible experience. And thankfully someone gave me a scholarship through this program, and I was able to get out of that. And it gave me a really big hand up in life when I needed it. So, when I was a bit older, I realized how much of an impact that had in stopping that cycle of generational trauma and generational poverty. So, what could I do and what company could I create to multiply that impact to tens of thousands of students? And so that's how it came about.
Russell:And if people want to find out more about it, where would they look?
Alyse:Yeah, so our website is Redefiningeducation.org. That's the best place to really find out about what we do. We also have a Triumph Over Tragedy scholarship award that was very important to me. It was my dream to create. And it gives additional scholarships to students that not only may be struggling financially, but have been through some really traumatic experiences, but have remained resilient in the face of adversity. And those are the students and those are the children that if we can find the kids that went through the darkness but still see the light, those are the ones that we need to help propel forward, because they're going to be the change agents in their generation to push our society forward to a more just world.
Russell:Fascinating. And it's interesting because we have a totally different educational system over here but find exactly the same problems. Ironically, everything that's public here is private, so we thought everything the wrong way around, but it's fascinating. So, scholarship sounds a brilliant idea and you're doing fantastic work and you just have to keep on doing it. Now, normally when I meet people, what they're talking about is a book. And you're not talking about a book, but you're writing one. Thank goodness. So what's that going to be about?
Alyse:Yes, it's really cool. So, it's actually titled The Anger She Keeps a True Story of Rage and Redemption. And it is really about taking that anger and changing it into something that fuels us for the greater good. So, it's that decision between are we going to take it this way or are we going to take it that way? Because I found myself at a crossroads at one point and it was burning me up, right. Like, all of this rage that I had, and I had a choice to make. I either go this way or I go this way. And so that's really what it is for women to understand that I'm keeping my anger. It's not something that I have to get rid of, so I'm going to keep it and I'm going to use it. You either use it outwards or inwards, and it's not useful inwards. It's very useful outwards. I mean, anger is just a source of energy. It's just a word.
Russell:Absolutely right. People don't understand. It's another form of semantic degradation, which is one of my favourite phrases of mode. Well, it's been an absolute joy to talk to you, and I could chat all day, but I know you're off to do important things and important work, so I'm going to be respectful of times. Thank you so much for spending time with us again, looking more if you want to have a look at the organisation Redefining Education and no doubt the book details will come because I think that sounds a great story. And thank you so much for spending time with us today.
Alyse:Yes, thank you so much for having me. It was a good conversation.
Russell:Enjoy. You take care.
Alyse:You too.