Welcome to Resilience Talk hosted by Paul Spencer of Second Nature Solutions. Let's dive in.
Hello Paul. Welcome back to another episode of Resilience Talk. Today is a a different kind of conversation, if I may. Today is July 8th, 2025. There are a lot of things in the world today that people are experiencing feeling, thinking about. And so I wanna set the table for listeners, invite you to this meal that we're having. This is a very wide ranging conversation, but it will make sense. So today, July 8th, there are different points of chaos and risk that people are experiencing.
And it could start with the floods in Texas where a hundred people die. It could start more closer to home. For some people where they're experiencing loss of a loved one, they're experiencing climate change, if you will, fires, they're experiencing anxiety about their jobs. We're having a somewhat of a slowdown in the economy today due to many different reasons they could experience. Um, uh. Let's say social divisions or immigration raids, or they could be experiencing financial loss.
There's just so many different aspects of of life that people are experiencing and it can feel very heavy. And I'm experiencing different things, you know, uh, just personally, I know you are. A lot of people listening are, and there's this sense of anxiety or hopelessness that almost everyone I talk to is feeling this way. We had a, a weekend at, at church a couple weeks ago where the pastors were just like, Hey, let's just pray for each other.
Like, what is going on in your life from, from the stage? What is going on in your life? Let's share. And every person that talked was just this devastating thing, one after another, and it felt so heavy and it in times like these, it creates this sense that we have to clinging to something and feel this sense of like resilience because we need hope and we need faith in a time like this. And there's this scene in the Crown.
From a couple of seasons ago where this nun is walking into a room, I think it was a nun walking into this room and she's like, how is your faith? That's what she said. How is your faith?
Hmm.
And I know Paul, you and I have talked a lot over the last couple of weeks of, we've had so many wide ranging conversations, but you keep going back to that. Where is your faith in a time like this? So Paul, tell me about.
The things that you're thinking about these days and how your faith is integrating maybe into this world, into this season that so many people are feeling, and what's drawing you back to that sense and how folks might be able to have that faith, that hope, that love to get them through a hard time. And of course, it will impact things in the future. And how we're thinking about our businesses in this tumultuous period. It could be ai again, could be climate, energy crises.
It could be, you know, different issues within their business that they're facing, the economy, tariffs, so on. What is it for you that your faith takes you into this place and, and how do you navigate it? Where is your faith today, Paul, in, in this season?
Uh, uh, so I would hope that I have high faith and I hope to practice, uh, high faith. Uh, there's always room for improvement for sure. Um, and I think just going back to what you were just saying is that are all feeling. With the age of transition, right? Things that are going on that we've talked about already, it just feels like it's amplified and there's no space, there's no, there's no calm space.
Um, whether it's geopolitical things around the world with wars and attacks and all those things, all the way down to like what you just said, which is, could be the flash floods in Texas and, and the horrific loss of life there. Or even just like you said at, at home where we lose a family member. Right? Um, and all of that goes back to where's your faith? Um, because. In the end, resilience is based on faith and hope.
And without those things, it's very difficult to cope with whatever is going on in your life. So even if we were in the age of, uh, the golden era and things were all awesome and stable and nothing but good things. We still have events in our lives where our business goes under, right? Or, uh, we have a car crash, right? Uh, uh, Diego jta, right? He was a soccer player, uh, that died over the weekend, um, unexpectedly right with his brother. They're the only two siblings in the family. Life is.
Uh, not without knowing their, their personal situations, but from the outside life is perfect, right on soccer team, living the living the dream, and it's gone. Um, and so those are the things where we have to be able to strip, we have to be able to go through the exercise and be able to say to ourselves, if I strip everything away, if I take. All the material things that I've worked my butt off for and I take away my house, my home, and then I take away my money and my wealth.
And for a lot of us, um, especially as, as business owners, um, we, we have, um, some identity built into that as an owner and as for some of the toys that we may get. As maybe part of the privilege of ownership. And that doesn't mean fancy cars and big house and yacht, but, uh, there's a different perspective in the world, like what we've talked about before. You have a different wisdom to share when you operate as an owner. And those are blessings.
Um, but we also have a strong identity into that. And so when that business goes away, um, there's lots of owners that have a difficult time of dealing with that. It's really difficult, um, because my identity's now gone. Now my, my business and people knew me as this, this awesome business owner. And how's your business? And, and when that's gone, uh, it's like taking away myself, right? My soul. Um, and so then that goes back to the question of where's your faith?
Um. Then again, just kind of going through that, take away the wealth, our material things, and then we take away what was most likely, most dear to us, and that's our family. And it's just left. You're just left right with nothing. And we say, where's your faith? Um, because nothing is ever perfect. Uh, I think we've talked about this before.
When we're, when we're running a resilient business and we're thinking about all these things that Paul talks about and processes and risk management, that doesn't mean that you win and it doesn't mean that it's a happy path. And if you do it right, if you do it just like Paul says, or if you read these four books, you'll, and you do 'em just like that. It will be perfect for you, right? You can do all those things and still, fail
Mm.
and lose everything, right? And the last thing that you have, the only thing that you have is your faith. And that is the only pillar, right? That you have that goes through you. Out, up, right straight to God that says this. Is all I have, right? It's all I have. All I have is a relationship with him. All I can do is rely on him. And, uh, and it's up to him even if I don't like it and I don't like the outcomes.
Um, and that is, that faith, um, will allow me to have some hope that even though it's, it's, full of despair and loneliness and not much fun. Is I still have hope and that hope is that there's something on the other side, right? That regardless of all the things that are going on in the world, um, and with me personally, that there's something else, right? Something bigger than me, um, and God has something in store for me besides just this, and that is hope. Right.
Um, and those are the two things that without those things it's really hard to love. And I know in society today, especially in our world today, um, we're asked to love and to love and we can do that. But it does feel there's a lot of hopelessness behind the asks of love, right? And you can't force people to love, but you can have faith and hope that. That there will be love, right? Um, so those are different virtues, obviously, um, within, um, where's your faith?
Um, but I think it's worth the thought, uh, for you all listening, um, to take the exercise and to say, where's my faith? And when it's all stripped away, where am I? And if that doesn't feel very good. And I wouldn't expect it to feel great and I wouldn't feel, expect it to feel good. But if you know that there's a gap there, right? And I, I don't really know where my faith is, or I don't have a strong faith, or I've lost hope, um, then that's a place to go to work.
Hmm. I like that you ended on the word work, because in my mind I could hear people thinking this sounds a bit woo woo. You're talking about love and faith and hope. Um, but it, but this, what you're describing is actually very difficult. There's a phrase that people describe. Uh, the true philosopher is someone who, when a tyrant comes into town, they can pick up all their belongings in like a suitcase, head outta town, and they can be content.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
you have this faithful person who endured the worst suffering and they, they were content with the Lord.
Yeah. Uh, maybe just real quick, and not to interrupt you, uh, but content is one thing. Uh, did he like it? Did he suffer? Did he cry? Did he wonder why? of course. right. That's who we are. Um, but he still had the faith. Right.
And there's also, there's contentment and then there's joy. Can you, because, because the Bible instructs, you should have joy in your sufferings. Take joy that you are suffering in this moment. James says that. Paul says that,
Yes.
that sounds really difficult,
Yeah, of
but, but that's the point. It takes work and I'm, I'm, I'm curious like what your thoughts are on, like, this is really tough. I mean, I, I'm, I'm going to a counselor on Thursday. I, I'm in therapy, you know, because to do this kind of like really intense soul work, especially as a business owner, um. That is not easy, and this is not something you can just like do overnight and here's the six step plan to do this and that.
I mean, it takes years of really plumbing the depth of who you are as a person and how that affects you as a father, as a mother, as a business owner. Um, so talk to me a little bit about that. Maybe, maybe that's a good place to start as like. Where, where do you even begin to like find where your faith is and like who you are as a person in this day, as an owner, as a, as a person. Trying to just navigate the complexities of the world right now.
Yeah. Uh, well, I think that's, that's different for each person. Um, but I would say that, uh. The gift of awareness right, is a miracle in our lives, right? Um, and so just by hearing the first several minutes of what we've been talking about is the gift of awareness.
Hmm.
And so now it's been, um. Articulated in a way, and maybe you don't quite get it, but you hear it. Um, and you know in your heart where your, where your faith is,
Hmm.
right? And you may be agnostic, right? You may be an atheist, you may be a a, uh, um, may a passive believer, or you may be a strong believer, um, but you know in your heart, because God gives us that consciousness in our heart. To know where we stand, right? Um, and so that's the awareness that hope to give to you, anybody who's listening, and then it's up to you to understand what that means for you. Um, and, uh, I would say, and even maybe even challenge you, that you know what it is.
You know the answer. I don't know the answer. Uh,
Hmm,
Brandon doesn't know the answer. You know the answer because God has probably told you a number of times, um, and whether you are listening or not, you may not have taken the advice.
Hmm.
Um, so and so what does that look like, right? Again, that's up to you and your circumstance and, uh, and really, uh, again, just saying, you know, you know what it is. So that could be, that could look like. Um, uh, a long lost friend or relationship or relative, um, that you haven't been in touch with in a long time, but it's been on your heart for a long time to rekindle that relationship. Right? And who knows why and who cares? The reaction of, hey, never haven't. Where have you been? Right?
Um, but. Uh, who knows what will open up, right? If you follow your heart
Hmm.
and following your heart means that, uh, God has given it to you for whatever reason, and who knows what will show up in that, in that time, right? So that's, that's one example. Another one could be. That maybe there's a group, uh, maybe a friend of yours or maybe that something that you've seen either in your church or in your business, um, groups, networks, uh, that you've been invited to a number of times and you've never gone, um, because of whatever reason.
Um, and maybe it's on your heart that now that you have this gift of awareness that you've always felt that. You've wanted to go or you should have gone. Right. And we don't always wanna, should on each other, but, uh, and, and so maybe it's now taking that step to go do that. Right? Um, or maybe it's, you know, I spend a lot of time with lots of different people, lots of different groups. Um, I have good relationships, but you know, Paul, I don't have any time for myself.
And, uh, and so maybe there's some alone time that you can give yourself. Um, and that one's a little harder because, uh, the one, the other ones I described are kind of in your heart, meaning you have this kind of tug that maybe I missed out or something, or I really wanna do that. But I, um, where the things for yourself are a little harder to, to realize. Uh, but again, the gift of awareness right now is, uh, there can be some time for yourself.
Go for a walk, read a book, drive away somewhere, and sit on a park bench, right? And just give yourself some time.
Hmm.
Um, and that, those are things that silence, right? Reflection, those are all spiritual. Methods, um, of increasing your faith and just, just, just relaxing. Right. Um, so those are, those are a few things that come to mind.
Hmm. What comes to mind for me is poetry.
Hmm.
What I mean by that is, uh, you can't read poetry quickly. You have to sit and stop and look at the words and let them kind of sit with you, and you have to mole 'em over. You know, you can't read it like you would an email.
Mm-hmm.
And there's this great book by a guy named John Mark Comer, and it's called The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry. And he says that Hurry is not of the devil. Hurry is the devil.
Hmm,
And he's quoting somebody else. But he's got this great thing called practicing the Way that talks about silence and Sabbath and solitude and all these practices of, of the spiritual life. But my, your, your point on awareness makes me think that you have to stop. Moving for a minute to be able to have that awareness. Like there's all these things that are going on outside, inside, you know, in your soul, in your heart and your mind, but also around you.
I've got a two and a half year old and a five week old baby. I've got my wife and a business, thank you. But the, if you, but it is very, very difficult to slow down. To make space and margin in your life, especially as a business owner, to be able to even begin to think about and have the awareness and the presence of mine to sit with your own thoughts and your own being who you are on the inside.
I think it was Blaze Pascal that said that the, the, the stem of the chief problem of for all men is that they're not able to sit in the room quietly by themselves. And I, and I think there's something to that and how do you even begin to like. Stop and slow down. When you're running a business, you're, you're, you know, you've got a family, you've got a spouse and kids, and you got baseball practice on Thursday, and you gotta run and do, you know,
Yep.
you know, you just drum yourself up. How do you stop?
Yeah. So there's a, there's a thing that probably most of you have seen, um, especially if you work with me, is the wheel of Life
I, yeah.
on there, like, it's a, it's a wheel. And then each spoke is a 1-10 right? And then it has fitness, um, maybe. Intimate relationships, friendships, um, spiritual life, um, business life, right? There's a whole slew of things that go around there. And the concept of it is you score yourself as a snapshot in time, right?
And if you have some eights and some nines and some sevens and some sixes and a four, and then some eight and a nine, and you draw the wheel, you can see that you got a flat tire, right? And if you're to roll that wheel, it'd go.
Mm-hmm.
So it gives you an opportunity to, again, create some awareness to say, oh, look, you know, in my spiritual life, maybe there's, maybe there's more things that I can do. Because, uh, it's very natural actually for all of us to say, geez, I want to go to the gym. I wanna go for a walk. I wanna ride the bike. I wanna get in better shape. And so we can create that, those goals, right? And, and.
Business, I gotta be able to have one-on-ones and I gotta make sure I get a board and think about all these strategic things that I'm gonna do with my business. And, um, I'm gonna take Mandy out for dinner once a month. And those are tangible things that we can implement, if you wanna call it that, to, to make our wheel a little smoother. The, the one thing that's more intangible that you just described is the spiritual side of things.
Right, which is, it does force you to, to slow down in order to get that, move that number up, right? You have to intentionally say, I'm gonna let go today with all the things that I have swirling around me in my business, and I'm
Hmm. and
I'm gonna take 15 minutes to go pray, right? Or I'm gonna take 15 minutes just to go for a walk. Outside of the office through the beautiful trees and path that we've got in the, in the back of our office, which I have never seen because I'm always busy in front of the computer and on the phone. Right? And I can take that 15 minutes, um, to pray, to reflect, to relax, and give myself permission not to think about anything.
Hmm.
Right. And so when you, when you, your question was, is what does it take? It takes courage
Hmm. Hmm. It
It takes courage to be able to say the business will be here tomorrow, the work will be here tomorrow and the next day. If I spent the next 24 hours, 72 hours, 120 hours, I will not be done with work. There will still be work at the end of that. Right. And so, um, to have courage, to be able to say, you know what, I'm gonna let that go and I'm going to take some time for myself and I'm gonna say, where's my faith?
Hmm.
Um, and you'll be amazed to how much, uh, everything else on that wheel goes when you have a high, uh. Uh, evaluation of yourself,
Hmm.
of spiritual side of things, right? If you, If you rate yourself as a 10 or even a 12, right? We could go, uh, go to 11, right? On our, on our scale and everything else is, is less than that. Um, when you have high faith, high spiritual awareness, right? Um. You have the courage to give yourself that time and that space to be able to, to build that up.
Everything else is much simpler and you become different those around you, uh, either at home, um, or in our family, our friendships or our work relationships. Um, they, uh, they notice a difference in you for sure. Yeah.
Can confirm. I, I want to emphasize this is not for the people who read poetry on a Tuesday afternoon. This is for. People that are running businesses. I mean, I've, I've got an insurance application I need to fill out for compliance purposes. I've got 101 emails in my inbox, and among them are a private equity deal. I've gotta get back to clients. I gotta put plans together. I'm running a team. You know, there's, there's, and for you, I know there's a million things you need to do.
There's millions of dollars at stake for the leaders listening and, and, and, and their families and, and. Putting business, you know, put putting bread on the table because of their businesses. And yet the spiritual, quiet soul work is actually some of the most important things they could be doing for their business, for their families.
Yeah. Yeah. When we do, when we do executive coaching, um, nine times outta 10, uh, it goes back to time for yourself.
Hmm.
Uh, so, uh, how do they, how do I become an, uh, an effective leader? How do I become more efficient in my work? How do I handle all the things that you're just talking about? There are tools and tactics and different ways of having conversations, but in the end, the question is, is how much time are you you providing for yourself? And really that most of the time. The answer is, I don't know what you're talking about. What do you mean time for myself? Like, that's not even a consideration.
Um, but that's, that's where you start. And then that goes back to right, once you have some more time, you have some more reflection, then you can start asking yourself, where's my faith? Uh, because it's at that point in time where you can really start to see what's going on around you. Right. How are you leading your family? How are your kids? What is their wellbeing? Right? How are the people around me?
From a coworker perspective, if you can slow that down by having some time for yourself, you'll start to see those things around you, right? And then, uh, your faith will, will play a lot into, uh, how you, how you handle where you wanna go with those things.
With the last few minutes that we have left, how do you see these practices, even if you will, and thinking about our faith in the future of how it affects people's businesses, the resilience? I mean, we've talked before about ai. We've talked before about conflicts overseas, about social strife. There's a thousand different ways you could take this, but what is the value of somebody implementing these practices now for.
Future benefit amidst this, this age of transition, this kind of like chaotic environment we find ourselves in.
Um, it's, it's, well, it's a little bit like the matrix, so the more, um, the more, uh, so in, uh, when we do the energy coaching. Right. There's, there's the different levels and, uh, not all of you're gonna be familiar with this, but, um, the lower, the lower levels of energy, and these are, these are just, it's just a construct to be able to understand how you interact with the world and what your reactions and motions are.
So if we think about level one, level one is somebody who is a victim. And that energy is very palpable. Somebody who says, oh, you know,
Mm-hmm.
like, ugh. It's always happens to me.
Mm-hmm.
no matter what, oh yeah, and then, and then you are never gonna believe this, but this happened to me again.
Hmm.
And of course, right. And then you have the, the other energy level, which is also a low resonating, which means it takes energy away from people. When you interact with somebody like that, it's okay. It's not wrong necessarily, and you can give them some empathy and some compassion, but if that's the way that they live, it's very draining for the other person. Right. Um, another one that's very draining is somebody who is very aggressive, right. Maybe more conflict oriented.
Um, somebody who has more anger. So instead of saying, oh yeah, it's, it's more like, I can't believe this is happening to me. Right. People are crazy. I, I am not putting up with this anymore. And if you're, if you're getting in the way. I'm gonna take you down with me and there's no way you're gonna talk to me that way. There's no way you're gonna, and no matter what happens in their lives, it's always a conflict and you're never gonna beat that person, and that's their mentality.
You cannot beat me even if I have to. Like just go at you. Right. And that's very draining to be able, and again, not wrong in certain situations and certain times of life, but if it's the way you are, it just sucks the life out of everybody else. It's just very draining. Right. So when you're, again, going back to the faith idea. Is more of a, a, a faith is, a high faith is that things happen around you kinda in this matrix way and you're more, uh, you have a better coping
Hmm.
what's going on. Not that, it's, not that it doesn't matter, but you have different, you have a different hope and faith lens about why things are happening, and even if you don't understand why they're happening and it's terrible. Just take the, the floods in, in Texas, right? And that counter of deaths with the, especially with the children, is just heartbreaking. Right.
Um, and you don't need understand why, and you, you actually read the news and now it's like, uh, who's, who's gonna be held accountable for this? And Right. And we're talking about, uh, something that likely is not all that preventable, right? Maybe there could have been different decisions, but at the time. Yeah. And so, uh, do I still have faith and hope in the world, even though that happened? That's where your faith comes in, right?
Uh, if I lose hopelessness and I get angry and I become a, or I become a victim of what's going on, it's like, uh, well, you know, I might be taken away in the next. Catastrophic
Hmm.
uh, it's not gonna serve you and it's not gonna serve those around you. And so when you have a strong faith, you have more of a understanding of how you cope with it and how you pray for those people, how you pray for yourself, um, and you leave it up to our father. It's not up to us. No matter how much we press on it and get angry about it or whatever else, it's up to him and we, we, we let it go. Right?
And if we can let it go and let him have it and let Jesus take it, then that is a big difference in how we operate in our lives.
Amen. I'll leave it with that. I think this is. Some of your most important work, and I, and I'm, I'm saying this now, you know, realizing how difficult it is to just be a business owner in this world, a father, a husband, and I can do all the technical, tactical things in the world, but if I don't have this, what you're describing as faith and this kind of centered being, I don't have anything.
Yes, that's right. And like you said, right, it takes work, it takes discipline, and it takes others. You can't, it's very difficult to do it by yourself, and really it's hard to do it by yourself. And this is one of the. Um, one of the capitals that we talked about,
We talked
about intellectual capital, social capital, right? Spiritual capital. And without the spiritual capital, it's very difficult to move through there. You can be an academic, you can have a high intellectual capital, very smart, very knowledgeable. Um, but you, in order to gain a lot of wisdom, you have to have spiritual capital. You have to have spiritual capital. Um, and you can have social groups, high social network, high social capital, um, without spiritual capital.
Um, you tend to wonder are those, are those social networks really serving me and serving others? Right. Um, so it, it, it's, it feeds into all of that.
That's right. That's right. You can be humbled if you don't have the spiritual capital. You can have all the intellectual or financial or social capital in the world, and if you don't have the spiritual, you can be humbled very quickly. That can go away.
Or Yeah. Yeah. You're, yeah. You, you lack the ability to be humble.
Yeah. Yeah.
and pride and ego takeover.
That's right, Paul. Thank you. I, I would love to keep talking about this and I know we'll have some, some more resources coming out, um, about it. But, uh, I, I highly encourage anybody listening to, to reach out to Paul and talk. With him about these things that we've talked about it personally, uh, many times over the years. And, um, it's always like coming back to like the most important things in life. And so I, I highly recommend reaching out to Paul and, and working through these things.
And I know we'll talk about it again in the future. 'cause we are in that age of transition where it's becoming increasingly, increasingly important. So Paul, thank you and we'll talk again soon.
All right. Check you later.