Need an Abortion? Here are Some Resources and Things to Consider

So y'all, there's been some exciting things happening in the news recently around repro. And I'm just really excited to have things that are giving me energy and giving me hope happening. You know, as we always say, this is definitely a marathon and not a sprint, maybe an ultra-marathon, right? Like it's gonna be a very long, hard fight. So having these little things happen and they're not little right, having these things happen to give us hope are really important.

So last week president Biden issued another executive order around abortion care. Again, it doesn't go far enough to meet the emergency we're in, but it is definitely important steps forward. I'm sure we will talk about the executive order and what it means on another episode, but just know it , it takes some important steps, including trying to find a way to support patients, traveling out of state to access abortion care. It's gonna be really interesting to see how that is going to work out.

So, like I said, important steps, but still not enough. I wanna focus on the two big stories that were giving me hope in the last , uh, two weeks. So first is Kansas y'all oh my goodness. Kansas had a ballot initiative on their primary ballot that would seek to remove protections for abortion from their state constitution. Opponents really did the best to confuse what the votes meant.

Tried to make it seem like a yes vote was in support of reproductive choice when actually it was eliminating it, even with all of that and all of the money, the Catholic church threw into it and all of the other money, I'm sure that went into it. There was huge voter turnout and it was resoundingly defeated. Y'all in Kansas. That is so amazing to see that people are energized and ready to get out there and make sure that we are protecting the right to abortion.

And y'all, it just gave me so much joy and watching the videos of the advocates, celebrating the victory, they worked so hard, so many advocates and people going and door knocking and doing the work on the ground. They did so much to make this happen. And it was, it gave me so much joy to see their joy. It was just really wonderful to see. So thank you all for your hard work. Thank you to all of the people in Kansas who got out to vote to ensure that they were protecting the right to abortion.

It made a huge difference. And then the last one that just, it gave me so much hope y'all and I had so much fun watching the numbers go up and up and up. And that was Olivia Juliana. She is a 19 year old advocate out of Texas who representative Matt gates felt like was a good idea to insult and y'all don't mess with gen Z. She turned it around and she raised last. I saw over $2 million for abortion funds. Yo, that is so much money. She is just amazing. I , it was just giving me so much joy.

And I think one of the things I saw that really like $2 million is a lot of money, but really put that in perspective for me, someone was tweeting and I'm so sorry. I think I am going to blank on who that was. I think it was Lizza Fuentes tweeted out about how much money the national network of abortion funds distributed in 2020 and in 2020, they distributed $9.4 million . That means Olivia Juliana raised almost 20% of that.

That is just utterly astonishing and is going to make such a huge difference for abortion funds. It is going to ensure that people are getting access to the care they need. And honestly, Olivia Juliana is just a full, like absolute, like not all heroes wear capes. Like she is just amazing. She took an attack on her personally and raised over $2 million to make sure that people have access to abortion funds and just, oh, so much hope.

And it was so exciting to just continually watch that number grow. I gave money because how could you not? It was just amazing. And that was what I needed. That was the energy I needed and the hope I needed. And it was just so exciting to see. And I just, yeah, whew . It was good to have good news. It , it was really needed. Okay. So with that, let's turn to this week's episode. I am really excited for this week's episode.

I know things are really confusing for a lot of people right now on figuring out how to try and access care. So I wanted to make sure that we talked to some people who could help us figure out things you need to think about along the way steps you need to take, to protect yourself, to make sure that you are getting the care you need and you are protected from any sort of criminalization.

So I'm so excited to have with me on today's episode, Liz Lang with if one how and Rafa goodbye with the rele defense fund, we had a wonderful conversation and I am really excited for you to hear my conversation with Rafa and Liz. Hi Rafa . Hi Liz. Thank you so much for being here today . Do you wanna take a second before we get started and introduce yourselves and include your pronouns? Rafa , do you wanna go first?

So I just found out I'm pregnant and I am looking starting to look for abortion care . What are things I need to think about , like right away ?

And I need just to you , what type of care is available , where I'm

And so just be of how you're searching for things . Yeah . Liz , I , if you , so ,

It is very overwhelming and it's hard to know what your rights are and what the laws are quite frankly. And so if you do have questions about your rights or the laws in your state, please, please, please call us at the rele helpline. That is what we are here for. We are here to help try to answer your questions, hopefully, so people can, you know, make decisions about their reproductive health that are based in information and not in fear .

You know, lawyers say this all the time. If you don't tell me all the details of , you know, if this case, then I won't be able to AR you know, argue for you successfully. And I think what's unfortunate is that the people that you think you're giving that information to protect you can in fact , be the people that report you , even in the case of a miscarriage , we can about bit more later , but just , I , some , the fact always need all your information to , especially if it's not medically ,

Just thinking through , if you have any questions about the procedure or if you have any questions about what you might experience asking the providers, those questions as well.

Cuz that's a nonsense and complicated thing to say to someone who's in an abusive situation. Right. And at the same time, I think this is another moment of sad CS that the people around you might be, your source of unsafe might be the surveillance that we're all actually concerned about.

And I think intimate partners who are, you know, abusive and their families or any sort of networks that are abusive in your , in your life could very well be the reasons that you're reported or you are put in harms way in terms of the legal system. At least

I feel like we kind of already touched on this a little bit, but I think it is again such an important point to talk about like considerations after.

And again, I think this is another area where if you are able to access clinic based care and you have questions about what to expect after, you know, you receive an abortion, ask those questions of your provider , have the information that you feel like you might need to make decisions for yourself afterwards.

And so this is, you know, Liz mentioned this, it depends on who you are, but the folks that are criminalized are always going to be the same folks across systems and situations because the state has an incentive to criminalize certain folks.

And I mean specifically black folks, brown folks, migrant folks, indigenous folks, survivors, actually trans and gender nonconforming people, people, poor people, people that don't have access to safe housing and then any sort of anyone that the medical system or the legal system is deems of suspicious. And that's a really thing to learn about yourself. If you happen to fall into any of those categories. Cause it's not always about your actions, right.

Or it's not necessarily what you did or where you did it or how much care you took. It's just about the fundamentals of who you are and how you navigate the world, which is obviously deeply racist and misogynist and classist and all those things.

Cause as you said, it's often like at the hospital or, or the provider who takes a closer look and raises questions again, just really troubling to have to think about that. Or have to think that the doctors you're seeing might not be on your side for all the things when you really trust that that is the case.

There's so many ways in which pregnant people, I think aren't treated with the love and care that they deserve in a fundamentally dangerous moment in their life, medically dangerous. Right. And so I think that's the other part is like, there's a kind of fear that I hear people talk about.

Like I'm scared to have a miscarriage in a way, or I'm scared to have a stillbirth, which is such a devastating thing to have to think about as opposed to being able to focus on the grief and the trauma of the experience in the first place.

Now, now I'm in that place with, again being, I'm a straight white woman who probably won't be looked at in the same way to happy at that risk. Like definitely thinking through the impacts of like who is gonna be impacted is a really, again, an important point to push, but now I need help. What are my next steps?

So I want people to know that if something happens, if they are contacted by contacted by law enforcement, that is not because they have done something to deserve that there are state actors, there are people in power who are using discretion to make these decisions.

That being said, I think, you know, something we would tell any person who contacts our helpline, which is if you are being contacted by law enforcement, in any setting , um, don't talk to the police without a lawyer being present , right. Assert your right to have a lawyer. Then people can definitely call our helpline again immediately when they're experiencing a legal emergency like that .

And so I think sometimes it can be really hard, but I almost like, you know, want like people to , you know , that like that scene in the beginning of the Simpsons where Bart Simpson writes the same thing over and over again, like I kind of wanna do that scene in my own head just to like make myself fully IMB by the UN the value of not speaking to the police, not answering their questions and especially in the sort of Miranda oblation world where you won't even be reminded potentially if that

right. I think it's something we really just have to know within ourselves. And that like practicing remaining silent is some serious work, especially under really, really extreme scrutiny. And so I think, you know, I used to say this all the time as a public defender where someone would say this police officer was really nice or they told me, which is like almost a TV line now. Right? Like I'll , I'll talk to the da. Who's my personal buddy. And they'll give you a good deal.

Like all of those things are, are lies that the police are allowed to tell you they're, you know, legally allowed to lie to you. And so there's a way in which I think you just have to have the sense of self and this understanding that the criminal punishment system and all of its arms are not here to help you, no matter how much they tell you.

You know, and often again, you hear the sort of see the idea of the good go and bad go , but how it plays out in practice maybe feels less clear and you have someone who's saying, I feel sympathetic to you. Or like, I imagine this is hugely traumatizing for you. And the comfort of having someone affirm that in a moment of crisis can be really, really, you know, Luing to someone to wanna say something.

So it's to have to tell people this again, but it's like, I think the most protective thing is to just not trust any of the arms of law enforcement, they're not there to help you . They're not there to make your life any easier .

So people could have a better understanding of like the full range of help they can get from both of them .

So that includes answering questions, you know, especially now after dogs about what do the bands in my state actually mean for me as person , who's trying to make a decision that also means talking to people about any legal risks that they might face depending on how they're choosing to end a pregnancy. So that could be , you know , accessing clinic care that also be choosing to self , know that self abortion may be the best choice for , for any number of reasons .

And you know , that's great , but that doesn't doesn't legal . So we can answer those questions that are really specific to someone's situation. We also answer questions from young people who are, who wanna know what their rights are about accessing abortion care. So we know that in many states, young people are often forgotten when it comes to abortion care. And there are laws, unfortunately called forced parental involvement laws that really remove bodily autonomy from that young person .

And we can talk to people about what those laws say, what they might mean for them in their situation, as well as, you know, how they might access something called a judicial bypass hearing . And we can talk what their rights are and what options might be available to .

So one, we think about the , the process of criminalization is not just the criminal punishment system , so not just harass prosecution and criminal court , what leads to bail, incarceration, cetera , all of that is obviously extremely cruel and violent . And it's also not the only venue that the state uses to criminalize people in . So Liz just mentioned sort of family court, and I think that's another much like cops , ACS or CPS workers.

You know, you have to think of those folks often disguised or cosplaying as social workers, maybe actually having those degrees and still not necessarily being there to help you and actually being there to report you so through that system and then the immigration slash deportation system. So, you know, there's a long history of detention centers and reproductive injustice on that front and for sterilizations. And then also just the fact that these systems work in parallel.

So if you are someone who's not a us citizen and you're facing criminal charges, there will be immigration consequences for you potentially. And so that's the thing to consider and Thele defense fund knows this, understands this. And so part of our job is really to support people financially, to bridge the gap between having a good defense and not by virtue of resources, but not just in the criminal realm. Also the immigration and family realm .

And so the rele defense fund works in two sort of categories. And we think of one as bail, which is our most expansive category. So if someone's being criminalized for their pregnancy, their pregnancy outcome, they should reach out to us and apply for support.

And then if someone is being criminalized specifically for allegations of having self-managed their abortions, which, you know, there's like this , this idea , I think within the legal system , in many states , even where it's not explicitly criminalized, that there's something more criminal , because it's more wrong to self your abortion, this idea that you're taking your reproductive, autonomy , your body into your own hands, I think terrifies the state quite a bit.

And so there's this false idea . And this misapplication of the law that Liz says where people are dark specifically allegations of having self manage , and then it's kind , you know, prosecutors throw anything at people . So not only will they argue on the one hand that you allegedly self-managed, they're very comfortable simultaneously arguing that there was a live birth for instance, and you did something to, you know, cause that, cause that loss.

And so I think there's a way in which we really like to think about all the different places that we can show up for somebody at the repro legal defense fund, which involves yes, paying their bail, but also paying attorney's fees, getting expert witnesses in the room expert witnesses that if wehow has relationships with and has worked with before, so that they can really argue against some of the junk science that prosecutors are so comfortable using so that they can allege all these multiple

opposing things. And then I guess right now we're in a place where I think most likely people who are helpers are , are risk. And I think the rele defense fund also realize that they needed to sort of expand to that realm. And so our bail support includes helpers for folks who are trying to access abortion care. And then there's like our legal defense fund, which is bigger than just bail and anyone who sort of in the SMA realm can reach out to us for support.

So if you're the person who's directly being accused, if you're a helper, if you're an activist, absolutely reach out to us and will try to make sure that you have the resources you need to fight back against the sort of huge this arm of this , this violence of the state, which is obviously no small feat .

And then sometimes, you know, we realize as former defense attorneys that people need support, that's not just you can't just source sort of money at the problem that there's bigger issues that people have. Then maybe the concern is about a specific misdemeanor charge or a criminal charge. Maybe they're concerned they're gonna be separated from their families. Maybe they're concerned that their housing is on , is insecure at the moment.

Maybe they don't have a cell phone and that the court is saying you're a flight risk and because you don't have a cell phone . And so we try to support them in all those fronts as well. I hate that we exist in some ways. And I also think we're incredible. And so I really hope that if people need our support, they know that they should reach out to us . And, you know, even if they're uncertain that this is the exact support that they need , it's , it's better to just reach out and be cautious .

And I would say the same , the help overly as your friend . I think that's all I have to say about , I just wanna say the R L DF is amazing.

I think there is a sort of misogyny about how we view the repro movement we assume, or the world assumes that the movement is unprepared. And I think the opposite is true . I think in the face of extreme hardship, the movement is incredibly prepared , especially around practical support . The repro is really smart about how it gives its money away. And so, you know, if you're out there wondering is my money gonna go to go to something? Yes. Your money.

If you give it to the repro legal defense fund at least goes to someone's. Bail goes to that cell phone bill . I just talked about it's very tangible, practical support for someone. And I cannot say enough that criminalization is intentionally expensive. There is, it is not an accident that bail is high. It is not an accident that attorneys will charge you an arm and a leg. It's not an accident that poor folks are charged disproportionately for crimes.

And then the cost of it is sort of disproportionate as a result as well. All of these are intentional moves. And so we need a concerted, intentional resourced effort to fight back . That's my , for what you ,

Find out who's been doing this work , um, and try to learn from them what the work looks like and what the need might be before you try to jump in and say , well , I think this needs to happen and try to create something . I think that is so important to listen to the people who have been doing this work for years now.

How are you shifting the culture of how we treat pregnant people in your life? And I think some of those things are the big things that you can do on the smaller scale that maybe aren't about being visible. They aren't about, you know, participating in an organization. But they're just about how we talk each other , how we look at people.

I remember when I first came to New York city, one of my friends who later on became somebody that worked in family court to defend parents who were accused of neglect and abuse and a bunch of other stuff that is about the same stuff we just talked about. But looking at someone who was pregnant and smoking and feeling really nervous about it like many, many years ago.

And of course one can see how, when you shift your mind and you understand the systems that play and you think about trauma in a bigger sense, or you think about, you know, resources in a bigger sense, it shifts how you live in the world. And so I think there's a way in which like, think about your own lens, think about how you view pregnant people.

Are you, are you expecting them to like, you know, I , I remember being pregnant and being like, oh my God, I hope there's never any black ice because I'm so terrified of something were to happen to me. Me, no, one's gonna think about how scary that would be for me. No one would think about how terrified I would be about this wanted pregnancy, but instead they would look at me with the judgment of how are you as a pregnant person gonna walk around carelessly, not noticing black eyes , you know?

And I think there's something about that lens that we view people that I think if you don't wanna donate at least do the work of like reading and resourcing yourself and seeing how this movement needs to be a part of your life for the long haul. Because you know, the Wright has been working on this for so long, in such a coordinated fashion and their asks are bold and violent and they're very comfortable doing that.

And I would love us to be really, really bold in our commitment to people around their bodily autonomy sort of, you know, unabashedly and unapologetically.

And with that, I think just if you have any questions or an episode or topic, you would like us to cover always feel free to reach out. You can email me, Jenny repos, fight back.com and that's Jenny with an IE, or you can reach out to us on social media, repos, fight back on Facebook and Twitter or repos FB on Instagram.

Otherwise I will see you'all in two weeks for more information, including show notes from this episode and previous episodes, please visit us at our website at repro, fight back.com . You can also find us on Facebook and Twitter at repro fight back and on Instagram at repro FB . If you like our show, please help others find it by sharing it with your friends and please rate and review us on apple podcasts. Thanks for listening.