Welcome to Repo's, fight Back, a podcast where we explore all things reproductive health, rights, and justice. I'm your host Jenny Wetter , and I'll be helping you stay informed around issues like birth control, abortion, sex education, and L G B T Q issues and much, much more giving you the tools you need to take action and fight back. Okay, let's dive in. Hi repro . How's everyone doing? I'm your host Jenny Wetter , and my pronouns are she her. So happy New Year, y'all.
I hope everybody had a wonderful holiday season. I was home in Wisconsin with my family and it was lovely. We didn't really do much cuz it was cold, y'all, it was cold. It like with the windchill, it was at least 20 below most of the time I was home, so that meant we went nowhere and did nothing. And you know what? It was kind of delightful. I think I had mentioned , uh, in previous podcasts. I , I was just home earlier in December , um, for a family emergency.
Both of my parents were having some health related issues and it was really stressful and it was really nice to go home now for the holidays and see how much they have recovered and see how they are doing. Um, and it just took a lot of that background stress off my shoulders to see them , um, onto recovery. And I'm just feeling so grateful for, for everything that they're doing so much better. So, yeah, it was a really nice Christmas.
I, we watched movies and ate good food and yeah, mostly it was just like really quiet and I enjoyed that. Um, I did reading, which was a lot of fun. I had a bunch of fun holiday romances on my iPad that I read , um, that were just delightful. Um, I read the Sun Bearer trials by Aiden Thomas, which was delightful. I really loved their writing and it's delightfully and just wonderful. I I really loved , uh, the Sun Bearer trials and I cannot wait for the next book in this series.
And also really loved , um, the ne the second book in the Legend Born Cycle , uh, which is a wonderful series by Tracy Dion that I love. Um, so I did a lot of reading over the holidays and again, it's my happy place. So it was really nice to be able to do that and just like decompress. Um, and then I came back to DC and continued with my like delightful reading spree and had some quiet time before going back to work and did some baking.
I hadn't between like being home in Wisconsin earlier in the month and then, you know, not having time to bake before I was going back to Wisconsin again. I, I , I went like an entire month without making any sort of bread related thing. Um, so it was really nice to make bagels last weekend. And , um, it , yeah, it was just really nice to get back in the swing of my Sunday bakes and to have bagels for breakfast all week. It was very nice. Let's see here. Anything else exciting?
I think the next really big exciting thing personally, it was, so before the pandemic, I normally have a pixie cut and I dyed my normally red hair. We bleached it blonde and then dyed it bubble gum pink. And it was super fun. And then the pandemic hit and I just let my hair go . And so it was one, it was the , my natural hair color for the first time since I was like, I don't know , maybe a freshman in high school.
Um, between like always having like highlights or like dye my hair blonde or red or, or whatever. Like I , I hadn't had my hair, my natural color since probably I was a freshman in high school. Uh, yeah, so I just let my hair go for the whole pandemic and it was my natural color, which was a much darker brown than I thought it was. And it was so long, y'all , it was so long. I can't tell you last time my hair was that long. And so right before I went home for the holidays, I finally got it cut.
I chopped, I don't know , probably at least a foot off. And it is now a cute short bob that I really love. I'm so grateful to have my hair short again , um, with , um, some fun blonde highlights and it's really fun and I am just, yeah, so happy to have it short again. I'll probably go back to my pixie some point , my red pixie at some point I just, it it's kind of high maintenance and I'm still working from home and not like seeing people a ton.
So it seems like a lot of money and effort to get my hair cut and colored every six weeks with the pixie for and just seems like spending a lot of mo unnecessary money. So I'm happy to have it on a more low maintenance cut and style , uh, for the next while. Those are my big personal things. The other really big news as the Biden administration took some action to protect abortion access , uh, and we will do a much, much deeper dive in our next episode.
I will have somebody on who will talk through all of this and what all it means. So we'll just do this like really quick right now. Uh, the f d a , uh, finalized , uh, the, the rules around , uh, Mifepristone , they were changing the REM classification on it that it ha again, we will go into all of this much more detailed in a further episode if you want some like earlier background about it , about it.
They announced that they were considering this change and were working towards this change last year and we did an episode talking about what this might mean. So we'll link to that in the show notes if you want that as a, as a tied you over until we do the, the new one. So previously you had to go and get mione, which was the first drug in the medication abortion cocktail from your provider. And you used to have to get it in person with the pandemic. They had changed that.
Um, now that in-person requirement is permanently gone, which is great news. Um, but now you , UK pharmacies will be able to fill your prescription. You won't have to go to a provider to have them physically hand it to you, which is great. It will expand access. However, this is only relevant in states where that is legal. So that means states where abortion is banned, this is not gonna help them.
So it is really good news and it is gonna expand abortion access and make it easier for people to get abortions. But it is not going to do that everywhere, right? So it is not going to help in the way in in many ways that we need it to and states where abortion is already banned. So good news, but it's, it is not a silver bullet. We are still in the middle of human rights crisis around abortion.
The next step that the administration took is the DOJ clarified that it is not illegal to send medication abortion to people in states where abortion is illegal. That will help expand access. But again, it is not going to solve all of the problems. But it is important. It means if you're sending things, you cannot be arrested for sending medication abortion to somebody in another state where abortion is illegal.
Again, it will expand access, but it is not a silver bullet and, and is not going to solve all of the problems. So some good news coming out of the administration, there is so much work to be done to fight to ensure that everybody who needs an abortion wants an abortion is able to easily get one. So a long fight ahead. Um, but this is some good news in that fight. And we will talk about all of this and all of its implications much more in our next episode.
But I just wanted to make sure we were talking about taking a second to celebrate the good news. Cause it is good. It's just not all the things we need, right? There are so many more things we need to make sure that people are able to access care, but we still need to celebrate the wins when we get them. Okay, with that, let's turn to this week's episode.
I am so excited to have on Elizabeth Estrada with the National Latina Institute for Reproductive Justice to talk about Latina access to reproductive healthcare and abortion and misinformation in the Latina community. I, we had a wonderful conversation and yeah, let's turn to my interview with , uh, Elizabeth. Hi Elizabeth. Thank you so much for being here .
Hi, thank you so much . I'm super excited here . Name Elizabeth Es pronouns reproductive justice.
I'm so excited to talk to you today. Uh, we just actually did an episode , uh, a little while ago on the green wave , so it's like really exciting to talk about then access for Latinas in, in the US as well. And I know that's changed a little bit, so maybe we should start at the beginning and go what was abortion access like before the Dobbs decision?
Well , um, thank you for that question and also thank you for mentioning the green feel so deeply inspired by that movement . I have colleagues and in started in Argentina , so , so we hoped that we're living in their goals as well and that can use some of the strategies from Latin America here in the United States. Ill say that , that's actually really good segue , like you said .
Cause you know , um, many of us in the reproductive justice movement have seen , um, what a post row world has been for quite some time. You know, I live and work in New York, but the Latina Institute has activist networks in Rio Grande Valley, Texas , in Miami, Florida , and in Northern Virginia . And so we have all seen , um, Texas be a hugely restrictive state , uh, specifically with senate Bill eight that passed in September of last year.
And during that time, and well before , you know, there has been huge attacks on , uh, our reproductive rights and access . Um , most notably can think or read back on the issue with the criminalization of abortion . Uh , who is a woman living in the Rio Grande Valley whose , um, self-managed abortion was criminalized and she was incarcerated. She's since been freed . But that has been the world even prior to , uh, um, for many immigrant people .
For many people living in rural areas, for many young people, abortion care, access access is really being the key that continues to threaten communities that are under resourced . And so , while the fall of ROE is a huge, huge strike against our reproductive freedoms, many of us with the identities that I mentioned, you know , specifically immigrant people have been facing , um, barriers to access even before RO has fallen.
However , the follow is a to our movement to access reproductive freedom and it goes against the will of the people of the United States. Abortion. We have many examples of how popular abortion, most notably with the recent elections and defeats of any restrictions in certain states . We saw Kentucky , uh, advance , um, reproductive freedoms for their residents. Uh , but Ill say that while we are living in a post world now , um, many of us have been trying to figure out how to get access.
Whether it's do I have the money to go because , you know , you and I both know that , um, abortion access is only about being able to necessarily pay for the abortion, but also being able to get to the abortion. Do you have transportation? Do you have somebody that might accompany you? Um, do you have childcare ? Cause as you and I know , the majority of people having abortions are already parents . So that is also a barrier.
Language access continues to be a barrier , especially for , um, the AAPI community. I would say in New York we have a lot of research in Spanish, but you know, Mandarin or uh , Bengali or other , um, Asian community languages are really hard to come by . So while these are just high level glimpses of what it was prior to the follow grow , it may reflect for some communities what it's like post grow .
Um , but I don't want that to , I don't want convey to your audience that this isn't a devastating hit , but rather that some of us women of color , marginalized identities , black people , um, working class under resource people , uh, non-English speaking people have been living in a post world in of sorts already for many years.
Yeah, all really wonderful points. And one of the things I was really thinking about was something that has become even more important now with abortion being banned in several states, is the ability to travel to access care and how that really can impact undocumented people or people who live within the border zone. Um, and that's gonna ha has an added layer of complexity when trying to access care. Do you may wanna talk about that a little bit.
Some states are enacting or have enacted , uh, criminalization if , if wanting to leave the state for care . You know, you think about Texas where it has like kinda like a vigilante component to their laws. But you know , many of us , uh, who like you mentioned who are undocumented and in living in perhaps border towns or border cities in the United States already face challenges driving to a clinic .
If you think about the Rio Grande Valley , um, Macallan being the last city in the Rio Grande Valley , that's like com four big cities lost their only reproductive health clinic recently. And travel continues to be a barrier for those without document status . And for many immigrant communities , our families are comprised status people . So maybe your , your granny or your , um, are not documented , but maybe the younger generations who , who was born here .
So travel continues to be and always has been really a huge barrier to access , especially for undocumented folks . Um , we already a lot of surveillance , so I think that that is just an added so when I know that I'm continue to bring up Texas , but even in more liberal states like New York , transportation continues to be a barrier as well .
Cause you increase with the mayor and , um, the presence of , so we may have a right on paper , but if youre too afraid to leave your home to run into the police on the subway or on the streets, then is that access really coming to fruition ? Is it really materializing if you're unsafe to be just riding the subway to , you know , get , uh, an appointment ?
Yeah . Uh , so many layers of like, just so many things that are just making it so much more to a difficult to access basic healthcare . It's just like layer upon layer of complication. And I know one that has , um, a real part of the reason we're talking today is misinformation , um, and misinformation in the Latina and Latinx community. Do you , we wanna talk a little bit about what you're seeing?
Well, you know, I think that oftentimes our communities are targeted simply cause we don't speak English . But I think anyone can relate to seeing quote unquote fake news or ads during election season . I mean, I know that Facebook or what meta is, you know, getting a lot of , um, blowback given their refusal to mandate that on their platforms.
And so I think anyone can relate , especially in the Latinx community , receiving perhaps like a WhatsApp message , you know , from your back home , um, spreading misinformation about what abortion is or what can come after abortion . Perhaps we've misinformation all types of medical conditions which have medical .
Um , but as a Latina or as a, you know, in mixed status families or first generation or, or you know , children of immigrants, we are often, you know, the feminist women in the communities having to kind of dispel some of the misinformation. And that goes with everything. However, you know, we often , some of us are not as proficient technologically.
So while I may be going on Google and searching my nearest abortion clinic , Google has had an effort in trying to , uh, distinguish which centers might have , uh, services that you're looking for and which do not .
Now it has like an advertisement or like a little , um, message that says does not provide abortion care , which is really , really key to communities because even if I'm searching for , it's important for me to know and not waste time going, for example, being lured ord into antiabortion centers. Um, they're also known as crisis pregnancy centers or fake clinics.
These centers are literally places that spread misinformation and claim to provide resources for folks seeking abortion but do not provide abortion care at all. And we see that in my own community here in the Bronx where folks where there is an anti-abortion center located across the street from our main Planned Parenthood clinic and then down the street from a public hospital, Lincoln Hospital in a predominantly Spanish speaking and uh , black American area .
That to me is very obvious that , um, these antiabortion centers , centers are targeting us much like , you know , the ads on , uh, Facebook or graphics and that are spread through WhatsApp that perhaps your is sending along . And you'll see that those little are shared like thousands of times. Cause at the bottom of the image it tells you how many times it's been shared.
So we are targeted given, you know , um, all these presumptions about how we lean in terms of our ideals or values or political , but it's clear , you know , that is a winning . And I latest election has been kinda a illuminator for many of us , uh, where the Republican party really tried to , um, push what they were calling like a red wave through a lot of fearing , um, especially around abortion .
And then criminal cri , you know , just , um, fearing around the idea of crime , increasing crime , right ? What we know to be true , uh, at the Latina Institute is that, you know , providing care support resources to our communities is lower crime , not police , but again , you know , Latina people , issues of abortion , similarly of states . It's a widened popular issue. And in lots of exit polls they were indicating that , um, Latinos , uh, found it to be a priority next to the economy.
And those two things cannot be separate . The economy is a matter of reproductive justice . Abortion is a matter of the economy . Cause we know studies prove that , you know , if you aren't able to access abortion , you're likely to plummet further poverty. So , um, across we're , you know , are lawmakers that that is a popular stance that Latinos agree with.
So while we are targeted by misinformation, I'm lucky to say that , you know , um, in our community and at the Latina Institute , we're working to dispel some of myths surrounding abortion so that we don't make it so easy for that targeting of our communities .
Antiabortion centers are , they're just, they're insidious, they're just terrible. Yeah. Insidious, that's the word I was trying to think of. Like, and their language is made to confuse you so that you don't know you're going to one , right? Like they name themselves something very similar to the clinic you're looking for, or so you think you're going somewhere where the do provide a full range of services.
And so as, as somebody who knows this stuff, like I know what to look for, but you shouldn't have to be like steeped in this stuff to know that that clinic you're looking at is or is not a clinic. It's an, it's an anti-abortion center and I can't imagine needing to do that level of analysis and maybe not my first language. Right? Right .
Like there's just so many ways that it's, it , you can see where that misinformation or misunderstanding of like what these places are can, can be really extra harmful.
It's, and the tactic , the main tactic is delay . You know, I would say that, and you might agree that many of us, even those who speak the language, have trouble navigating the healthcare system. You know, what's a copay ? How much is yeah , for sure coverage . What is in in network ? What is out PPO hpo , what's the difference? And so that added layer of not knowing and understanding the language makes us really susceptible to being lured into an antiabortion center.
Especially when you see pictures in the advertising , um, in Windows that are , that look like it's , you know , black and brown folks in when you go inside. And my experience in the Bronx, it has been the opposite. There aren't any free pregnancy tests , there aren't any free ultrasounds , just religious rhetoric that is thrown at you to make you feel shame and guilt when what people are looking for is support and compassion and access to healthcare in a dignified manner.
Something we all deserve. I think we can all agree
Absolutely. I , this whole like , it just makes me so angry. Like I , I just trying to find care health basic healthcare should not be this complicated and it, it , it just makes me so mad that it is for everybody, but even more so for some people .
And I, I feel like you saying that reminds me of the new research that the Latina Institute was lucky enough to do partnership women and families courts over Wade v Wade has devastated Latinas the most. So we see nearly 6.5 million Latinas, 42% of all Latinas from 15 to nine live in the states that banned or are likely to ban .
And they represent the largest group of women of color impacted by these bands are so nearly half of folks who live in these six , six states are already parents , like I mentioned before . So what an impact , you know , just furthering your closeness or proximity to not having money , you know ?
And so I think nearly 3 million Latinas living in these states are already economically insecure and close to half of all Latina veterans in the US live in the states that have or likely to ban abortion after . So when you , the impact that is already what we're seeing and we know to be true is that the impact women of color , uh, Latinas, black women , rural folks, you know, young people.
I think you brought up a really good point actually a couple times now and I think it's really worth like pulling it out a little bit cuz I think it's one of those things that like whatever, and like the broader political conversation seems to get lost a lot and that is abortion is an economic issue.
It, they keep wanting to talk about it as like a social issue off to the side and not quite realizing no, it, it has huge economic security implications and that we need to be talking about it as as a reproductive justice, economic justice. Like all of it needs to be talked about together.
I couldn't agree more. Um, I would say that at the Latin Institute and generally in the reproductive justice movement, we cannot separate the two things. It is an a specific intersection for the reasons that I just mentioned .
The impact of not having access , but also workers have abortions and many of comprised of workers , not many of us can afford not to work and , you know , be able to have insurance or many of the states don't with , uh, don't even cover insurance on their private New York is that we a state that you cover insurance , but if you don't outta , and so access to should not depend on how much money you have in your pocket.
It should be accessible, it should be dignified, and it should be available anywhere for any reason at any time in your pregnancy .
Okay . So what do we need to do to address these issues ?
We need to do what we're doing right now . Now we need to talk , we need to talk about , um, why we support abortion access with our loved ones . I recognize that not everybody can be in the streets marching . Um , like I always say in Spanish, being a professional , uh, feminist , which is kind , you know , feminist kill , oftentimes we do play that role within our families. Um, often dispelling myths.
But we need to talk about why we support abortion access and maybe use the stories or tell our own stories if you feel safe. We need to , for those that are be able to be out in the streets , we need to stay organized and connect with organizations in your community that are doing this work because , um, alone we can do a lot but organized and together we can do a lot more. We need to, you know , lobby our elected officials.
There are probably , you know , proactive policy solutions that are happening in your state . I know in New York we're working with , uh, senator and assembly member Jessica Gonzalez Roja on a reproductive freedom and equity fund . So that new can truly be that leader in the abortion access given that we have rapidly become a destination for folks coming from restrictive states .
So we need to talk , we need to , we need to , you know, lobby our elected officials and we need to share our stories. I think culture shift is a component of the work that not to me but perhaps is like kinda an underestimated tool . But talking to your loved ones , sharing stories is what helps change heart and minds . Just at the dinner table , you don't have to go to a session , you don't a workshop.
You can talk to your family and your loved ones about why you support abortion access or you can share your own story . You know , I'm a 38 year old immigrant Latina from Mexico and I've had two abortion in my life . One in a restrictive state of Georgia when I was one and one in a less restrictive state New York when I was 32 . And they were both drastically different experiences.
So for those of you who are listening now, use my story to talk to your loved ones about why you support abortion access. Cause you can do that tonight at dinner.
Yeah, I, the culture change is such a big key part that I think sometimes gets undervalued and there are many, there are groups doing great work. I mean, we testify is doing amazing work. Yes . Making sure that we are working to shift culture. But it is definitely something that came up in my conversation about the green wave is like, that was a big part of what they were doing is trying to get rid of that stigma.
Stigma impacts us in ways we don't even recognize. You know, I think that as , uh, women and and identified people we're told to be a certain way and we internalize a lot of messages that we have to fight against every single day. And those messages often include , uh, bodily autonomy and self-determination how others often self determine or determine our futures . But if we shift a culture, and let me just be like , uh, say it plain and simple .
All of these systems that are seeking to restrict abortion and limit our sexual, I'm sorry , are bodily autonomy, are tools of the patriarchy . And maybe our movement doesn't call it that , but that's what it's, and it's patriarchal violence and that continues to be at the center of the feminist movement.
And we aren't just the reproductive justice movement , we global movement for feminism and culture shifts to say that we will no longer be silenced by shame and we'll talk about our stories with pride , um, but we have to work on that , right? We , everyone has a journey . And on the other side is a movement waiting to hear your story and people waiting to be moved and compelled by
It . It's so funny, uh , I feel like you're right. Like in the movement, we don't necessarily talk about the patriarchy a lot, but like in individual instances, right? Like in one-on-one conversations or, but like in the broader movement spaces, it's not something that, that we talk about a lot.
And uh, but uh , it's funnily enough, I've been recording some stuff for , um, coming out right after Thanksgiving and somebody else mentioned it and it was, it's always kind of like, oh, I mean, I guess the patriarchy and it's, it's just so funny. Uh, cuz yes, it's the patriarchy.
That's right. Yeah. I think sometimes , um, the messages of the patriarchy aim to de-legitimize our experiences. And the , one of the ways that they've done or tried to do that is by us having to use jargon that is perhaps academic or that doesn't act accurately define our lives . But if we're talking about it between us and we can Kiki about it, you know, and me out about it, then we most certainly should add it to our talking points .
Cause at the end of the day, we must know what the end goal is and that is too , like be said , you know , and the white supremacist capitalist patriarchy . And I live by that and that is what guides ,
Oh man , that feels like the perfect spot to end. But we do need to do the last bit of what actions can our audience take right now? I feel like we kind of already hit on a bunch of it , but
Well to reiterate, let's share our stories . Let's talk about the issues that are sometimes to talk about abortion being one of them . I think that is one of those ways that we can shift our culture to one of compassion and dignity so that we can all access health. And you know, I often say that one of the first barriers, if you have the right , you have the access and you have the means to access , perhaps even your own family might shame you outta accessing your right to do that.
Um , so I think culture shifting and like I said, it's about to be dinnertime . Let's talk about it at the dinner table, but also I think federally , we , at the Latina Institute , we've been working , um, to advance the Heal for Immigrant Families Act , that five year ban on newly immigrants access to abortion . So yes , the Heal for Immigrant Act removes the five year ban on newly immigrants access to healthcare . Cause obviously five years is too long to access healthcare's matter .
We've also working here locally in York , elected elected officials on the Reproductive Freedom and Equity fund. These are policies that would provide funding not only to folks seeking care, but to providers and , uh, safety of providers. Cause we recognize that providers face .
And , um, so we need to protect our providers so that they can do their work , their lifesaving work , providing access to the community, listen to repro , fight back , obviously like all of the pods that help you build your talking points is a really good way to have those conversations at the dinner table . Be organized , be connected to an organization that is doing work for reproductive justice, please . Um , research or local abortion fund here in New York.
The New York Abortion Access Fund provides care in New Jersey. There's a New Jersey abortion access fund in Georgia. There's southeast , you know , there's an abortion fund in every state , ready , willing, and to help you pay for your abortion care and also for practical support . Talked abortion care also requires to, you have to leave the kids somewhere. Childcare , transportation , um, all of those likes are important too to do .
So those are action steps that people can immediately do after listening to this podcast.
Well, Elizabeth, it was wonderful talking to you today. Thank you so much for being here.
Thank you so much. It was such a pleasure being with you.
Okay , y'all, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Elizabeth. I had a wonderful time talking to her. We'll see you in two weeks to have that conversation about these new administration actions that are gonna expand access to abortion. We'll dig much deeper into them what happens and what they mean for access. Okay, y'all, if you have any questions or comments or something you would like to talk to us about, please feel free to shoot me an email at jenny j e n n e repro fight back.com .
Or you can find us on Facebook and Twitter at repro Fight Back or at repro fb on Instagram. Otherwise, I will see you in two weeks to talk about some good news. For more information including show notes from this episode and previous episodes, please visit us at our website at re pros fight back.com . You can also find us on Facebook and Twitter at re Pros, fight Back and on Instagram at repro fb . If you like our show, please help others find it by sharing it with your friends.
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